Everything we thought we knew about a dude like this, we didn't know.

Not random. Not revenge. I guess some people just kill.

breaking: it was the mcrib!

wow!!

he didn't any the bbq sauce on his mask - so he lowered his mask as he prepared to take a bite of bar bq heaven - literally unmasked hisselfs.

all for the love of ......

..... mcrib!

- el KKM

{ sipping coffee }

{ eating donut }

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Everything we thought we knew about a dude like this, we didn't know.

Not random. Not revenge. I guess some people just kill.

---

I think there is something going on with his back surgery and recovery and possibly getting addicted to shrooms as a form of pain management. There is some evidence that hallucinogenic can trigger schizophrenia or similar problems. Obviously don't know for certain if this is all right, just a suspicion.

90sBear said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Everything we thought we knew about a dude like this, we didn't know.

Not random. Not revenge. I guess some people just kill.

---

I think there is something going on with his back surgery and recovery and possibly getting addicted to shrooms as a form of pain management. There is some evidence that hallucinogenic can trigger schizophrenia or similar problems. Obviously don't know for certain if this is all right, just a suspicion.

---

That will be the defense...

FLBear5630 said:

---

90sBear said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Everything we thought we knew about a dude like this, we didn't know.

Not random. Not revenge. I guess some people just kill.

---

I think there is something going on with his back surgery and recovery and possibly getting addicted to shrooms as a form of pain management. There is some evidence that hallucinogenic can trigger schizophrenia or similar problems. Obviously don't know for certain if this is all right, just a suspicion.

---

That will be the defense...

---

Maybe in an attempt to lessen the severity of punishment. I don't see any way he can argue that he was not guilty by reason of mental defect, nor should he be able to. He clearly knew right from wrong.

NEW: Luigi Mangione's attorney says that he will plead not guilty to the Pennsylvania charges and suggested he would do the same with the N.Y. counts.

"I haven't seen any evidence that he's the shooter." https://t.co/m463dePt4r

— Axios (@axios) December 10, 2024

On Threads his hashtag is
The Adjuster

Media is thrilled.

They now have another court case to endlessly pontificate about.

Apparently, his parents filed a Missing Persons report in November. Nothing else on it yet

Assassin said:

---

Apparently, his parents filed a Missing Persons report in November. Nothing else on it yet

---

Becoming apparent, the young man went mental.

And there are tens of thousands just like him.


Patients Rights laws need to be reformed.

Allow parents and law enforcement the power to put legal adults in psychiatric hospitals against their will.

Nothing else is going to work in preventing these needless deaths.

KaiBear said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Apparently, his parents filed a Missing Persons report in November. Nothing else on it yet

---

Becoming apparent, the young man went mental.

And there are tens of thousands just like him.


Patients Rights laws need to be reformed.

Allow parents and law enforcement the power to put legal adults in psychiatric hospitals against their will.

Nothing else is going to work in preventing these needless deaths.

---

Idk - that sounds like it can be abused all day long by the left: 'If you speak up at a school board meeting or pray outside an abortion clinic we'll lock you away forever in a psych ward.'

Think of how many times alone on this board we are called zealots, extremist, crazies, nut jobs, etc.

Married A Horn said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Apparently, his parents filed a Missing Persons report in November. Nothing else on it yet

---

Becoming apparent, the young man went mental.

And there are tens of thousands just like him.


Patients Rights laws need to be reformed.

Allow parents and law enforcement the power to put legal adults in psychiatric hospitals against their will.

Nothing else is going to work in preventing these needless deaths.

---

Idk - that sounds like it can be abused all day long by the left: 'If you speak up at a school board meeting or pray outside an abortion clinic we'll lock you away forever in a psych ward.'

Think of how many times alone on this board we are called zealots, extremist, crazies, nut jobs, etc.

---

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

Married A Horn said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Apparently, his parents filed a Missing Persons report in November. Nothing else on it yet

---

Becoming apparent, the young man went mental.

And there are tens of thousands just like him.


Patients Rights laws need to be reformed.

Allow parents and law enforcement the power to put legal adults in psychiatric hospitals against their will.

Nothing else is going to work in preventing these needless deaths.

---

Idk - that sounds like it can be abused all day long by the left: 'If you speak up at a school board meeting or pray outside an abortion clinic we'll lock you away forever in a psych ward.'

Think of how many times alone on this board we are called zealots, extremist, crazies, nut jobs, etc.

---

I think the limitation to parents and LEOs makes your concerns unwarranted

quash said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Apparently, his parents filed a Missing Persons report in November. Nothing else on it yet

---

Becoming apparent, the young man went mental.

And there are tens of thousands just like him.


Patients Rights laws need to be reformed.

Allow parents and law enforcement the power to put legal adults in psychiatric hospitals against their will.

Nothing else is going to work in preventing these needless deaths.

---

Idk - that sounds like it can be abused all day long by the left: 'If you speak up at a school board meeting or pray outside an abortion clinic we'll lock you away forever in a psych ward.'

Think of how many times alone on this board we are called zealots, extremist, crazies, nut jobs, etc.

---

I think the limitation to parents and LEOs makes your concerns unwarranted

---

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on who puts the LEO in contact with the suspected mental case.

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Apparently, his parents filed a Missing Persons report in November. Nothing else on it yet

---

Becoming apparent, the young man went mental.

And there are tens of thousands just like him.


Patients Rights laws need to be reformed.

Allow parents and law enforcement the power to put legal adults in psychiatric hospitals against their will.

Nothing else is going to work in preventing these needless deaths.

---

Idk - that sounds like it can be abused all day long by the left: 'If you speak up at a school board meeting or pray outside an abortion clinic we'll lock you away forever in a psych ward.'

Think of how many times alone on this board we are called zealots, extremist, crazies, nut jobs, etc.

---

I think the limitation to parents and LEOs makes your concerns unwarranted

---

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on who puts the LEO in contact with the suspected mental case.

---

Parents I'd be open to listening to. LEO's - no way.

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Apparently, his parents filed a Missing Persons report in November. Nothing else on it yet

---

Becoming apparent, the young man went mental.

And there are tens of thousands just like him.


Patients Rights laws need to be reformed.

Allow parents and law enforcement the power to put legal adults in psychiatric hospitals against their will.

Nothing else is going to work in preventing these needless deaths.

---

Idk - that sounds like it can be abused all day long by the left: 'If you speak up at a school board meeting or pray outside an abortion clinic we'll lock you away forever in a psych ward.'

Think of how many times alone on this board we are called zealots, extremist, crazies, nut jobs, etc.

---

I think the limitation to parents and LEOs makes your concerns unwarranted

---

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on who puts the LEO in contact with the suspected mental case.

---

Swatting is a thing. Would you defund the police because swatting exists?

Michael Shermer has a good article in Skeptic comparing Mangione to Kaczinsky.

From the piece:
" I could go on and on with such examples because for at least a century and a half public intellectuals and academic scholars have been predicting the imminent collapse of Western civilization, even as the ideals and institutions that insure its success have grown: science and technology, reason and Enlightenment humanism, democracy and universal franchise, property rights and the rule of law, free enterprise and free trade, and the rights of individuals expanded to include all humans and even members of other sentient species. You would think academics and intellectualsthe very people who promote such valueswould be singing their own praises for such progress; but no, they're gloomier than ever."

Suggests that an appreciation for civilization might reduce the call for revolution and violence.

Conspiracy theory: Random McDonald's "tip" is a cover for the massive drone/facial recognition systems used to actually catch this guy.

syme said:

---

Conspiracy theory: Random McDonald's "tip" is a cover for the massive drone/facial recognition systems used to actually catch this guy.

---

Does anyone today think that doesnt exist? When my kids apps can do it... you know the government has way more sophisticated stuff.

quash said:

---

Michael Shermer has a good article in Skeptic comparing Mangione to Kaczinsky.

From the piece:
" I could go on and on with such examples because for at least a century and a half public intellectuals and academic scholars have been predicting the imminent collapse of Western civilization, even as the ideals and institutions that insure its success have grown: science and technology, reason and Enlightenment humanism, democracy and universal franchise, property rights and the rule of law, free enterprise and free trade, and the rights of individuals expanded to include all humans and even members of other sentient species. You would think academics and intellectualsthe very people who promote such valueswould be singing their own praises for such progress; but no, they're gloomier than ever."

Suggests that an appreciation for civilization might reduce the call for revolution and violence.

---

from the definition of Humanism "humanism affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives"
From another source's definition "The meaning of the term "humanism" has changed according to successive intellectual movements that have identified with it."

Fluid ethics, fluid worth. I should have quit reading at "humanism"

Warren condemns CEO killing while calling out "vile" health insurance practices.

“This is a warning that if you push people hard enough, they lose faith in the ability of their government to make change."

"Violence is never the answer, but people can be pushed only so far"…

— Igor Bobic (@igorbobic) December 11, 2024

https://nypost.com/2024/12/11/us-news/elizabeth-warren-rationalizes-visceral-response-to-unitedhealthcare-ceo-murder-should-be-a-warning/

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

quash said:

---

Michael Shermer has a good article in Skeptic comparing Mangione to Kaczinsky.

From the piece:
" I could go on and on with such examples because for at least a century and a half public intellectuals and academic scholars have been predicting the imminent collapse of Western civilization, even as the ideals and institutions that insure its success have grown: science and technology, reason and Enlightenment humanism, democracy and universal franchise, property rights and the rule of law, free enterprise and free trade, and the rights of individuals expanded to include all humans and even members of other sentient species. You would think academics and intellectualsthe very people who promote such valueswould be singing their own praises for such progress; but no, they're gloomier than ever."

Suggests that an appreciation for civilization might reduce the call for revolution and violence.

---

from the definition of Humanism "humanism affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives"
From another source's definition "The meaning of the term "humanism" has changed according to successive intellectual movements that have identified with it."

Fluid ethics, fluid worth. I should have quit reading at "humanism"

---

Source for your second definition?

Jury selection.

J.R. said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

2) United is being sued for making an auto-denier AI program "known by the company to have a 90% error rate, overriding determinations made by the patients' physicians that the expenses were medically necessary." This directly resulted in multiple elderly deaths in midwest

— Damian Caraballo MD (@813JAFERD) December 5, 2024

4) UNH is most famous for the $35 Ingenix lawsuit in 2000's. In it, they used a database to improperly reimburse MDs for services. The lawsuit used proceeds to start FairHealth

— Damian Caraballo MD (@813JAFERD) December 5, 2024

---

Our healthcare/insurance system is the opposite of free market capitalism.

---

this we agree!

---

The way healthcare works in the US and how its unlike free markets would be like you and me going to McDonalds, both ordering a Big Mac and them telling you its going to cost $20 and for me its going to cost $10 based on some bs third party. Its the same big mac and the same cost for them to make it. If all business was like this in the US, we'd collapse.

The way to fix it is to have price transparency. If anyone could go online and see the price for an MRI, surgery, medication etc...those prices would astronomically fall. But DC politicians, insurance providers and healthcare services all work together to prevent this from happening because they would lose billions and trillions in profit over time.

Healthcare insurance should solely exist for catastrophic health issues like Cancer.

Don't even get me started on how Obamacare was designed by the largest providers so they could consolidate and absorb all the marketshare.

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

2) United is being sued for making an auto-denier AI program "known by the company to have a 90% error rate, overriding determinations made by the patients' physicians that the expenses were medically necessary." This directly resulted in multiple elderly deaths in midwest

— Damian Caraballo MD (@813JAFERD) December 5, 2024

4) UNH is most famous for the $35 Ingenix lawsuit in 2000's. In it, they used a database to improperly reimburse MDs for services. The lawsuit used proceeds to start FairHealth

— Damian Caraballo MD (@813JAFERD) December 5, 2024

---

Our healthcare/insurance system is the opposite of free market capitalism.

---

this we agree!

---

The way healthcare works in the US and how its unlike free markets would be like you and me going to McDonalds, both ordering a Big Mac and them telling you its going to cost $20 and for me its going to cost $10 based on some bs third party. Its the same big mac and the same cost for them to make it. If all business was like this in the US, we'd collapse.

The way to fix it is to have price transparency. If anyone could go online and see the price for an MRI, surgery, medication etc...those prices would astronomically fall. But DC politicians, insurance providers and healthcare services all work together to prevent this from happening because they would lose billions and trillions in profit over time.

Healthcare insurance should solely exist for catastrophic health issues like Cancer.

Don't even get me started on how Obamacare was designed by the largest providers so they could consolidate and absorb all the marketshare.

---

Danm, we agree again. Don't disagree on the design of the ACA, but I do like provision where folks with pre existing conditions can get insurance (me for instance)

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

quash said:

---

Michael Shermer has a good article in Skeptic comparing Mangione to Kaczinsky.

From the piece:
" I could go on and on with such examples because for at least a century and a half public intellectuals and academic scholars have been predicting the imminent collapse of Western civilization, even as the ideals and institutions that insure its success have grown: science and technology, reason and Enlightenment humanism, democracy and universal franchise, property rights and the rule of law, free enterprise and free trade, and the rights of individuals expanded to include all humans and even members of other sentient species. You would think academics and intellectualsthe very people who promote such valueswould be singing their own praises for such progress; but no, they're gloomier than ever."

Suggests that an appreciation for civilization might reduce the call for revolution and violence.

---

from the definition of Humanism "humanism affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives"
From another source's definition "The meaning of the term "humanism" has changed according to successive intellectual movements that have identified with it."

Fluid ethics, fluid worth. I should have quit reading at "humanism"

---

Source for your second definition?

---

No idea right now. I'll try to find it for you soon

The Unibrower..............

- el KKM

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

quash said:

---

Michael Shermer has a good article in Skeptic comparing Mangione to Kaczinsky.

From the piece:
" I could go on and on with such examples because for at least a century and a half public intellectuals and academic scholars have been predicting the imminent collapse of Western civilization, even as the ideals and institutions that insure its success have grown: science and technology, reason and Enlightenment humanism, democracy and universal franchise, property rights and the rule of law, free enterprise and free trade, and the rights of individuals expanded to include all humans and even members of other sentient species. You would think academics and intellectualsthe very people who promote such valueswould be singing their own praises for such progress; but no, they're gloomier than ever."

Suggests that an appreciation for civilization might reduce the call for revolution and violence.

---

from the definition of Humanism "humanism affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives"
From another source's definition "The meaning of the term "humanism" has changed according to successive intellectual movements that have identified with it."

Fluid ethics, fluid worth. I should have quit reading at "humanism"

---

Source for your second definition?

---

No idea right now. I'll try to find it for you soon

---

Thanks

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

quash said:

---

Michael Shermer has a good article in Skeptic comparing Mangione to Kaczinsky.

From the piece:
" I could go on and on with such examples because for at least a century and a half public intellectuals and academic scholars have been predicting the imminent collapse of Western civilization, even as the ideals and institutions that insure its success have grown: science and technology, reason and Enlightenment humanism, democracy and universal franchise, property rights and the rule of law, free enterprise and free trade, and the rights of individuals expanded to include all humans and even members of other sentient species. You would think academics and intellectualsthe very people who promote such valueswould be singing their own praises for such progress; but no, they're gloomier than ever."

Suggests that an appreciation for civilization might reduce the call for revolution and violence.

---

from the definition of Humanism "humanism affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives"
From another source's definition "The meaning of the term "humanism" has changed according to successive intellectual movements that have identified with it."

Fluid ethics, fluid worth. I should have quit reading at "humanism"

---

Source for your second definition?

---

No idea right now. I'll try to find it for you soon

---

Looks like it was pulled from Wikipedia.

Not sure "fluid ethics" is the takeaway from 600 years of usage in a fairly consistent way but whatever.

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

quash said:

---

Michael Shermer has a good article in Skeptic comparing Mangione to Kaczinsky.

From the piece:
" I could go on and on with such examples because for at least a century and a half public intellectuals and academic scholars have been predicting the imminent collapse of Western civilization, even as the ideals and institutions that insure its success have grown: science and technology, reason and Enlightenment humanism, democracy and universal franchise, property rights and the rule of law, free enterprise and free trade, and the rights of individuals expanded to include all humans and even members of other sentient species. You would think academics and intellectualsthe very people who promote such valueswould be singing their own praises for such progress; but no, they're gloomier than ever."

Suggests that an appreciation for civilization might reduce the call for revolution and violence.

---

from the definition of Humanism "humanism affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives"
From another source's definition "The meaning of the term "humanism" has changed according to successive intellectual movements that have identified with it."

Fluid ethics, fluid worth. I should have quit reading at "humanism"

---

Source for your second definition?

---

No idea right now. I'll try to find it for you soon

---

Looks like it was pulled from Wikipedia.

Not sure "fluid ethics" is the takeaway from 600 years of usage in a fairly consistent way but whatever.

---

Yes, wiki.

The wiki page uses the word "changed". I used the word "fluid".

Six versus half-dozen.