FLBear5630 said:

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historian said:

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Trump is no Reagan. But you are parroting Leftist propaganda: Trump didn't tell people to stop certification. He told them to protest peacefully against the blatant and obvious fraud. It became violent because Epps & other FBI, CIA, etc operatives made it way.

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I agree with you on that from a prosecution stand point and said that. He should not be prosecuted for that speech. Parroting the MAGA talking point.

But I watched that speech, from a leadership perspective he lit the fuse. He did not calm the country or stabilize the situation. He and his show enflamed it. You can be wrong and not criminal. He was still President.

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After 8 months of watching democrats justify, cheer and incite BLM riots your reaction to Trump's speech rings hollow.

FLBear5630 said:

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historian said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Wangchung said:

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sombear said:

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Wangchung said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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sombear said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Malbec said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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sombear said:

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Wangchung said:

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We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

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I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

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Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

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Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

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Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

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I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

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Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

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Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

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Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

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I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

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Smack dab in the middle of Antifa and certain BLM groups.

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lol unlikely since they hardly ever made arrests of those groups

But again….you are ludicrously trusting of the unaccountable surveillance State

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Did you miss the 14,000 + number?

No, several of you have broadened your arguments, which is fine, but I have not. I'm arguing only that CIs in such groups is SOP. I'm waiting on "but Halliburton" ….

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14,000 arrests, how many were after the riot? How many led to convictions?

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I just spent 10 minutes on google. Arrests were made at various times, as you'd expect. It often takes time to determine the identities of perpetrators.

Charges ranged from misdemeanors to felonies. Hundreds were charged federally, and on average were sentenced to at least 2 years.

All that said, none of this has anything to do with whether CIs are SOP.

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So out of 14,000... hundreds were charged federally. 8 months of riots, over 500 riots, 21 people murdered, billions in damages to federal and private property yet only hundreds were charged and even fewer saw trial. Most of the 14,000 arrests led to dropped charges. The treatment between Jan 6 perps and BLM riot perps was worlds apart. There are zero reports of FBI informants embedded in BLM or Antifa. None.
Edit; I found an article that claims the FBI sent CIs into BLM to goad them into crime, too. Can't speak to the veracity of these claims but it disproves my theory if true. . https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-paid-informant-sow-discord-005000541.html

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On a side note, is this another example of the similarities of Trump and Reagan? I am sure Reagan would have led a riot and storming of the Capital, right

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Similar in that neither Trump nor Reagan ever ordered anyone to riot at the Capital

[The key sentence in the Jan. 6 Ellipse speech s this one:

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."]

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[rolls eyes] Sure. He was a calming figure...

You can honestly say you can see Reagan on that stage as the Election he lost was being certified?

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Reagan won two elections. Both were landslide victories. (He lost the 1976 primary to Ford and supported him.)

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the difference is Reagan would never do anything to disparage the US

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Trump has also not done anything to disparage the US

(and only attacked those republicans in the establishment who attacked him...Reagan wisely used proxies to fight back at the Rockefeller Republicans of his day)

FLBear5630 said:

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historian said:

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Trump is no Reagan. But you are parroting Leftist propaganda: Trump didn't tell people to stop certification. He told them to protest peacefully against the blatant and obvious fraud. It became violent because Epps & other FBI, CIA, etc operatives made it way.

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I agree with you on that from a prosecution stand point and said that. He should not be prosecuted for that speech. Parroting the MAGA talking point.

But I watched that speech, from a leadership perspective he lit the fuse. He did not calm the country or stabilize the situation. He and his show enflamed it. You can be wrong and not criminal. He was still President.

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He asked for the National Guard to be there, which was documented in a White House memo. Begged for by the DC Police Chief.

Assassin said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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historian said:

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Trump is no Reagan. But you are parroting Leftist propaganda: Trump didn't tell people to stop certification. He told them to protest peacefully against the blatant and obvious fraud. It became violent because Epps & other FBI, CIA, etc operatives made it way.

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I agree with you on that from a prosecution stand point and said that. He should not be prosecuted for that speech. Parroting the MAGA talking point.

But I watched that speech, from a leadership perspective he lit the fuse. He did not calm the country or stabilize the situation. He and his show enflamed it. You can be wrong and not criminal. He was still President.

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He asked for the National Guard to be there, which was documented in a White House memo. Begged for by the DC Police Chief.

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Assassin, look, the libs have J6 as their Christmas. It doesn't matter the facts.

For e Leftists J6 was, and still is a modern Reichstag fire. It's their excuse for a power grab and tyrannical attacks on their enemies. The FBI used Gestapo like tactics against the J6ers, including those who did nothing except be there. Many have been denied their due process rights, among others, and have been locked up for ridiculously long time period considering the charges against them. They have been abused in terrible ways for the crime of protesting a fraudulent, stolen election. They have been treated with complete contempt, worse than terrorists held at Gitmo.

For them, for the country, & for justice, January 20 cannot come soon enough. Assuming that Trump keeps his promise to pardon all of them. They are victims of American fascists who have been acting tyrannically ever since. Actually, the fascist tyranny goes back much longer than that.