No politician will touch entitlements, which is where virtually all of the spending goes.

The SALT deduction in the bill is the worst part of it.

In the end, Congress still needs to get spending under control. Tax cuts and economic growth can help a lot. They did in the 1920s, 1960s, 1980s, 2000s, and Trump's first term. But spending controls are essential to solve our overriding issue, namely the insane debt. This will require a long term commitment to balance the budget and pay down the debt. The good news is it will get easier with economic growth, sane tax policies, and paying down the debt. The more it is paid down, the smaller the interest payments. Obviously, lowering the interest rates helps too which is why Trump is pressuring Powell.

Our biggest problems are that Congress is too corrupt & cowardly. The fascists don't want any part of fiscal responsibility and will fight tooth and nail to maintain every fraudulent and wasteful program and to prevent any real cuts. The GOP isn't much better as they are often just as willing to buy votes with our money. But not always. There are always a few voices of sanity pushing for real change, always on the right never on the Left (at least not in my lifetime).

Sam Lowry said:

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Porteroso said:

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Assassin said:

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boognish_bear said:

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🚨 LMAO! President Trump just clowned on Biden at Alligator Alcatraz

“Biden wanted me in here ... Didn't work out that way.

That son of a b*tch.” 🤣🔥 pic.twitter.com/hwHfeVfZbL

— Nick Sortor (@nicksortor) July 1, 2025

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Trump is still the funniest guy in politics

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Your adoration of deal leader is noted.

And selling t-shirts for a prison? Im not opposed to the idea of the prison. Alligators, razor wire, guns, they all hurt. Whatever. But this glorification of hurting prisoners is dumb.

---

It serves several purposes at once:

1. Move the Overton Window on law enforcement brutality
2. Encourage and embolden cruelty among the populace
3. Make a "joke" of due process violations
4. Sell merchandise and profit from human misery

It's not dumb, it's just evil.

---

While I don't disagree, where was your righteous indignation the last 4 years? There was nary a word from you when Biden's admin 1) supported puberty blockers, and hormone therapy for minors, and challenged state laws that prohibited gender-reassignment surgery for children; 2) expanded Title IX rules to include protections for LGBTQ, including attempting to require states to permit boys to compete against girls; 3) attempted to require healthcare professionals and religious organizations to provide abortion access and related healthcare services, even if they had religious objections; 4) prioritized race and gender ideology in all aspects of govt. life and in the military.

I mean, these are but a few of his evil policies. Yet you were strangely silent.

Is it not "evil" in your book when it goes against Christian principles, or is committed by liberals, dictators or despots?

KaiBear said:

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nein51 said:

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KaiBear said:

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nein51 said:

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KaiBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Massive tax cuts, especially no tax on tips and overtime. And most importantly, big money for border security.

This is a big win for the American people.

— JD Vance (@JDVance) July 1, 2025

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No tax on tips and ( especially ) overtime is going to be very popular with the American working class.

Wonder how many union members will remember the Dems united efforts to stop such tax breaks come Election Day ?

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You would think but leave this board and hop on another platform and you will probably get a different impression.

FTR I, too, hate this bill. I hate when democrats pretend to care about spending and the budget almost as much as I hate when republicans pretend to care about the deficit then proceed to do exactly what the democrats do.

There really are basically no more fiscal conservatives left in either party. That's a huge problem.

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Both parties attempt to buy votes with money we don't have.

However I much prefer the Republican agenda; so I consider the money well spent.

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At least you're being honest about it. Most can't do that.

I don't consider it money well spent. I consider it spending money we don't have and bad when both parties do it.

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In my opinion the Republicans need this tax cut to stand any chance of maintaining their slim majorities in the house and senate after the midterms.

Without those majorities Dems will take over the various committee chairmanships, resume impeachment proceedings and effectively stop all of Trump's repairs to our society.

---

R's may need tax cuts to retain congress (highly doubtful), however, the country doesn't need tax cuts, we need to address the deficit. Tax cuts will only exacerbate the debt, which will continue to impact the dollar.

Have you ever heard of the Laffer Curve?

Art Laffer explaining it:



This inspired Reaganomics which produced the greatest economic boom in US history.

historian said:

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Have you ever heard of the Laffer Curve?

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yes, and I don't buy it. I don't need a 6 figure tax cut.

Poor people won't get a 6 figure tax cut because they don't make that much. But they do need tax relief. Tax cuts help them, often greatly. That in itself is a huge benefit to the country.

It doesn't matter if you believe in the Laffer Curve. It's real and has been proven correct repeatedly: 5 times in the past century. The only reason it hasn't been proven more often is that it hasn't been tried more. Those boom times were real and the entire country was better off for it. So was much of the outside world. The U.S. is still the largest economy in the world and it's driven by consumers, not the government.

historian said:

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Poor people won't get a 6 figure tax cut because they don't make that much. But they do need tax relief. Tax cuts help them, often greatly. That in itself is a huge benefit to the country.

It doesn't matter if you believe in the Laffer Curve. It's real and has been proven correct repeatedly: 5 times in the past century. The only reason it hasn't been proven more often is that it hasn't been tried more. Those boom times were real and the entire country was better off for it. So was much of the outside world. The U.S. is still the largest economy in the world and it's driven by consumers, not the government.

---

$200 tax cut for people on the lower end. Yeah, that will make a difference.

Sam Lowry said:

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Porteroso said:

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Assassin said:

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boognish_bear said:

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🚨 LMAO! President Trump just clowned on Biden at Alligator Alcatraz

“Biden wanted me in here ... Didn't work out that way.

That son of a b*tch.” 🤣🔥 pic.twitter.com/hwHfeVfZbL

— Nick Sortor (@nicksortor) July 1, 2025

---

Trump is still the funniest guy in politics

---

Your adoration of deal leader is noted.

And selling t-shirts for a prison? Im not opposed to the idea of the prison. Alligators, razor wire, guns, they all hurt. Whatever. But this glorification of hurting prisoners is dumb.

---

It serves several purposes at once:

1. Move the Overton Window on law enforcement brutality
2. Encourage and embolden cruelty among the populace
3. Make a "joke" of due process violations
4. Sell merchandise and profit from human misery

It's not dumb, it's just evil.

---

Nice list of liberal talking points Sam.

It's bigger than that. But for anyone living paycheck to paycheck any relief is welcome. The longer term impact is greater: economic growth, more jobs, greater job security, more competition for consumer goods resulting in lower prices, and so on. This is basic economics and although some people don't know much about the academic side, poor people know what it means to have more money in their bank accounts. You can discount it all you want. The benefits are real and the voters appreciate it.

Bidenflation was real and did a great deal of damage. Things are improving but the impact is still real. It takes time.

Assassin said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Porteroso said:

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Assassin said:

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boognish_bear said:

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🚨 LMAO! President Trump just clowned on Biden at Alligator Alcatraz

“Biden wanted me in here ... Didn't work out that way.

That son of a b*tch.” 🤣🔥 pic.twitter.com/hwHfeVfZbL

— Nick Sortor (@nicksortor) July 1, 2025

---

Trump is still the funniest guy in politics

---

Your adoration of deal leader is noted.

And selling t-shirts for a prison? Im not opposed to the idea of the prison. Alligators, razor wire, guns, they all hurt. Whatever. But this glorification of hurting prisoners is dumb.

---

It serves several purposes at once:

1. Move the Overton Window on law enforcement brutality
2. Encourage and embolden cruelty among the populace
3. Make a "joke" of due process violations
4. Sell merchandise and profit from human misery

It's not dumb, it's just evil.

---

Nice list of liberal talking points Sam.

---

Meaningless post.

There is definitely some perfect tax rate that balances revenue with encouraging growth. That is not the issue. The issue is spending. Congress wants to cut revenue and spend more! Can you believe it?

I am not following this in enough detail to know what to think of the medicare/aid cuts. There is a way to do it which reduces waste, fraud, and minimally impacts Americans who depend on it. And another way that wrecks the lives of millions. And all in between. Do I trust this Congress to have done its homework and chosen the very best way forward? Any of you?

Nobody does, we all know they don't know what's in the bill when they vote. Making them read it aloud was one of the sanest things Democrats have done this year.

ALLIGATOR ALCATRAZ: MAKE AMERICA SAFE AGAIN! 🇺🇸 pic.twitter.com/kfMZuMwc9N

— The White House (@WhiteHouse) July 1, 2025

Sam Lowry said:

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Assassin said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Porteroso said:

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Assassin said:

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boognish_bear said:

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🚨 LMAO! President Trump just clowned on Biden at Alligator Alcatraz

“Biden wanted me in here ... Didn't work out that way.

That son of a b*tch.” 🤣🔥 pic.twitter.com/hwHfeVfZbL

— Nick Sortor (@nicksortor) July 1, 2025

---

Trump is still the funniest guy in politics

---

Your adoration of deal leader is noted.

And selling t-shirts for a prison? Im not opposed to the idea of the prison. Alligators, razor wire, guns, they all hurt. Whatever. But this glorification of hurting prisoners is dumb.

---

It serves several purposes at once:

1. Move the Overton Window on law enforcement brutality
2. Encourage and embolden cruelty among the populace
3. Make a "joke" of due process violations
4. Sell merchandise and profit from human misery

It's not dumb, it's just evil.

---

Nice list of liberal talking points Sam.

---

Meaningless post.

---

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it...

BREAKING: USAID has officially shut down, per Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

— Leading Report (@LeadingReport) July 1, 2025

JUST IN: The Polymarket for Musk forming his own party by end of year are soaring. pic.twitter.com/JzGItsQIdl

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) July 1, 2025

The private sector lost 33,000 jobs in June, badly missing expectations for a 100,000 increase, ADP says https://t.co/54ipZAKShP

— CNBC (@CNBC) July 2, 2025

JUST IN: 🇺🇸 Congressman Thomas Massie says he has enough votes to block President Trump's 'One Big Beautiful Bill' in the House. pic.twitter.com/mref01se0k

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) July 2, 2025

historian said:

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In the end, Congress still needs to get spending under control. Tax cuts and economic growth can help a lot. They did in the 1920s, 1960s, 1980s, 2000s, and Trump's first term. But spending controls are essential to solve our overriding issue, namely the insane debt. This will require a long term commitment to balance the budget and pay down the debt. The good news is it will get easier with economic growth, sane tax policies, and paying down the debt. The more it is paid down, the smaller the interest payments. Obviously, lowering the interest rates helps too which is why Trump is pressuring Powell.

Our biggest problems are that Congress is too corrupt & cowardly. The fascists don't want any part of fiscal responsibility and will fight tooth and nail to maintain every fraudulent and wasteful program and to prevent any real cuts. The GOP isn't much better as they are often just as willing to buy votes with our money. But not always. There are always a few voices of sanity pushing for real change, always on the right never on the Left (at least not in my lifetime).

---

You got it. This whole DOGE thing is cover for Congress and Executive Branch approving spending they shouldn't. The amount of "fraud" and bad actors is miniscule. Every single "wasteful" contract was approved by both the Executive and Legislative branches.

You are 100% right, Congress has to get spending under control, it is their job.

Rep. @AOC: On this point of tax on tips, as one of the only people in this body who has lived off of tips, I want to tell you about the scam, a little bit of the fine print there. The cap on that is $25,000, while jacking up taxes on people who make less than $50,000 while taking… pic.twitter.com/McLf5WFHt5

— FactPost (@factpostnews) July 2, 2025

As our old friend Scooby Doo would say, "Ruhhhhhhh......Rohhhhhh!!!!!"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fox-host-stumbles-seeing-terrible-151748458.html

Donald J. Trump Truth Social 07.02.25 08:38 AM EST

As President of the United States, I’m not going to let this Communist Lunatic destroy New York. Rest assured, I hold all the levers, and have all the cards. I’ll save New York City, and make it “Hot” and “Great” again, just…

— Commentary Donald J. Trump Posts From Truth Social (@TrumpDailyPosts) July 2, 2025

💯 https://t.co/GR1Zz2O9hX

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 1, 2025

boognish_bear said:

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💯 https://t.co/GR1Zz2O9hX

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 1, 2025

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Milton wouldn't have minded the US getting out of the subsidy business.

It would be good if it could, but realities of foreign governments subsidizing their favored industries means the US must do the same or other method(s) to counter such.

boognish_bear said:

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Trump remains his own worst enemy.

- Four wars on pause as he brokers peace
- Back to back Supreme Court victories, one that shut down activists judges put in place to obstruct him
- Major bill passage
- Stock Market at all time highs
- Gas down (unless you live in Cali or Washington State which are blue states.… pic.twitter.com/SS0L3lC8Uu

— Deon Joseph (@ofcrdeonjoseph) July 2, 2025

BREAKING: President Trump’s Big Beautiful Bill not expected to advance in House after Rep. Thomas Massie flips his vote from yes to no.

— Dominic Michael Tripi (@DMichaelTripi) July 3, 2025

pic.twitter.com/8iQYWSQ4Ae

— Acyn (@Acyn) July 3, 2025

Republicans are trying locate Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick, who delivered a surprising NO vote on the mega bill rule. Likely to try to flip him.

I told a member I saw him bolt out of the chamber & leave the area.

“Smart,” the member said.

— Melanie Zanona (@MZanona) July 3, 2025

🚨#BREAKING: Now United States House of Representatives Speaker Mike Johnson said he has the votes to advance the Big Beautiful Bill

— R A W S A L E R T S (@rawsalerts) July 3, 2025

{ sipping covfefe }

{ eating organic toast }

{ awaiting victory }

- el KKM

D!

Go Bears!!

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Assassin said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Anyone who campaigned on the PROMISE of REDUCING SPENDING , but continues to vote on the BIGGEST DEBT ceiling increase in HISTORY will see their face on this poster in the primary next year pic.twitter.com/w13Qkm2e1A

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 1, 2025

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I cant believe Musk believes the CBO. Nobody else does

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I guess Musk is brilliant for SpaceX, Tesla, and others. Brilliant for DOGE. But an idiot for believing CBO.

Cherry pick much?

The Bill is a monstrosity. There is no way you can be serious about cutting the deficit, balancing the budget and passing this bill. It is a shell game. DOGE was never about reducing spending, that is how he sold it to you. It was about getting rid of programs he doesn't like, restrictions on businesses he wants and a vendetta against those he doesn't like.

It was not and is not about lowering spending, Trump has NEVER lowered spending in his life. It was what you and the others on this Board wanted to hear to get your support.

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CBO is a joke, for anything other than political spin. It uses static calculations, arbitrary rules. For example, the Trump Tax cuts expire this year. For that reason, CBO rules require them to establish the reversion (higher) tax rates as the benchmark for 2025. So any bill passed in 2025 "extending" those rates or making them permanent is, by CBO definition, a tax cut (even though all we're doing is extending current tax rates.) and on and on and on....

Really soft ground you're fighting on here.

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So, it won't add to the deficit?

---

Debatable. CBO is real, but not realistic. The two parties agreed upon CBO rules for how bills were to be scored, but the rules do not reflect reality. If properly done (and these do appear to be so), tax cuts typically do stimulate economic activity and generate greater revenues, but CBO rules require any tax cut (even extension of existing rates scheduled to expire) as a static loss of revenue with no calculation of dynamic impact. Same for regulatory reforms. They always do spur growth, yet they are not factored at all into the calculations. Since most of the expenses on illegal alien programs are not budgeted, it's not possible to estimate savings from obvious things like no longer putting them up in $500/night hotels in NYC. And on and on and on. So the OBBB will generate more revenues than the CBO projects, and it will save more $$$ than the CBO projects, which means the deficits will be lower. Not eliminated. LOWER.

The OBBB is a lot more than just a budget. It's the Trump agenda. It funds the priorities he ran on, specifically border enforcement. it also contains all of his economic policies. For parliamentary rules reasons, it does not contain the recissions on the things DOGE has identified to cut. They are being prepared in several separate bills, some of which have already been filed in the House.

Does the OBBB balance the budget? Nope.
Is balancing the budget in a single cycle a reasonable expectation? Nope
Is this budget an improvement over the baseline? Yep. It will halve the deficit over a ten year period (to the historical average)
Would I prefer to do more, faster? Yep.
Would I vote for the OBBB as a positive step in the right direction? Yep.
Would I vote for the OBBB as a positive step in the right direction, even though it's less than Id' prefer, and come back next week/month/year and work for more cuts & growth? Yep. That's what pragmatic people do.

Don't make perfect the enemy of the good. Trump has told us what the plan is - to grow our way back toward fiscal stability (not balance....) with DOGE cuts, plus spending cuts, plus additional revenues from 3-5% growth. The BBB is first & foremost an effort to get the package in place to stimulate the growth. take the win. Lock it in. Move on to the next battle.

It's an eminently reasonable plan that only the fringes could get terribly upset about.

The big variable is interest rates. Each 1-point cut reduces the deficit by $300b. (vs a 2025 deficit of $1.9T) That explains why Trump is throwing bricks at Powell...... A 3-point cut halves the current deficit.

KaiBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Trump remains his own worst enemy.

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Yep, glad he's a fighter and trolls the lunacy of the left, but stuff like this, just add needlessly to the drama.

Progressive globalists are technically his worst enemy, but I take your point.