KaiBear said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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The Department of Education hung large banners of American "heroes" on its building in Washington D.C. on Sunday, including Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., Catharine Beecher and Charlie Kirk.

In a video posted to social media by Education Sec. Linda McMahon, the banners… pic.twitter.com/Ota3BgiVYJ

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 2, 2026

---

Grant, an often overlooked American who served and led when needed. Never gets credit he deserves.

George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Steven Jobs
Albert Einstein

---

---

You can't be serious.

Grant was a butcher.....lost men to Lee at almost a 3-1 ratio. Grant simply had a many more men to begin with and understood the math.

---

This is lost cause nonsense. The Union was fighting a mostly offensive war, of course they were going to lose more men. Lee/the confederacy lost every offensive campaign they tried to muster. Grant was the best general in the Civil War and if he was put in charge at the beginning the war would have been won much sooner. Lee was the better tactician, but Grant was the better strategist. Tactics wins battles, but strategy wins war.

Grant's presidency is looked at more favorably now than it typically has been. He pushed for the ratification of the 15th amendment, created the first national park at Yellowstone, and actively tried to dismantle the KKK.

His worst trait was that he was too trusting, which led to the corruption that most historians agreed he had no involvement in.

---

Grant's army outnumbered Lee approx 3-1 and by this time the South was barely able to feed or otherwise supply Lee's troops.

Students are taught about Picket's hopeless charge at Gettysburg.....but weeks after that battle Grant did one even worse at COLD HARBOR. A battle were Grant repeatedly sent his men in suicidial charges against Lee's entrenched army on higher ground. Confederates inflicted over 15,000 casualties on Grant's troops in less than 48 hours.

The north was outraged over the slaughter....even Lincoln's wife openly referred to Grant as a 'butcher'.
Always been amusing to me how the entertainment industry never made a movie about COLD HARBOR.

Grant failed in every business he attemped prior to the Civil War.
He accepted significant financial 'arrangments' as president....only to loss all the money in bad investments.

Would have died broke had he not mustered the strength to endure his cancer ( Grant was a habitual cigar smoker ) and finish his autobiography. Grant died onlt a few days after its completion.

---

Pickett's charge is taught because it was the turning point in one of the most important battles in the Civil War. Cold Harbor isn't taught because it was Lee's last victory, and it did not have a significant impact on the war. Although the Union lost more men in total in the overland campaign, Lee lost more men relative to his total number. Wouldn't that make Lee the butcher?

Mary Todd didn't like anyone very much and no one liked her. I don't blame her too much given what she went through, but she no military expert so I don't know why I would value her military opinion.

I don't understand your point with the rest... Grant was a bad person because he didn't have an acumen for business?? He was a bad person because he died poor?

You say he fought through a painful cancer to finish his Memoirs so that his family would be taken care of... I think most people would find that extremely admirable.

---

It most certainly was admirable. However he was a mediocre officer in the Mexican American War....and resigned his commission. Failed in business both before and after the civil war. The guy drank far too much and was not particularly bright.

Grant makes the bottom 5 list of US presidents consistently for valid reasons.

---

How was he mediocre in the Mexican-American War? He was brevetted multiple times for his acts of bravery, and he served/learned directly from General Taylor.

How does his failed business endeavors before and after his presidency affect his presidency ranking?

Grant was a notorious lightweight and was more of a binge drinker than an alcoholic, and only during the quiet parts of his life when he didn't have anything going on.

He was ranked bottom 5 by historians in the 20th century because of a Southern smear campaign. I'm not claiming his presidency was one of the best, but bottom 5 is crazy. Many worse presidents than Grant.

KaiBear said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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The Department of Education hung large banners of American "heroes" on its building in Washington D.C. on Sunday, including Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., Catharine Beecher and Charlie Kirk.

In a video posted to social media by Education Sec. Linda McMahon, the banners… pic.twitter.com/Ota3BgiVYJ

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 2, 2026

---

Grant, an often overlooked American who served and led when needed. Never gets credit he deserves.

George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Steven Jobs
Albert Einstein

---

---

You can't be serious.

Grant was a butcher.....lost men to Lee at almost a 3-1 ratio. Grant simply had a many more men to begin with and understood the math.

---

This is lost cause nonsense. The Union was fighting a mostly offensive war, of course they were going to lose more men. Lee/the confederacy lost every offensive campaign they tried to muster. Grant was the best general in the Civil War and if he was put in charge at the beginning the war would have been won much sooner. Lee was the better tactician, but Grant was the better strategist. Tactics wins battles, but strategy wins war.

Grant's presidency is looked at more favorably now than it typically has been. He pushed for the ratification of the 15th amendment, created the first national park at Yellowstone, and actively tried to dismantle the KKK.

His worst trait was that he was too trusting, which led to the corruption that most historians agreed he had no involvement in.

---

Grant's army outnumbered Lee approx 3-1 and by this time the South was barely able to feed or otherwise supply Lee's troops.

Students are taught about Picket's hopeless charge at Gettysburg.....but weeks after that battle Grant did one even worse at COLD HARBOR. A battle were Grant repeatedly sent his men in suicidial charges against Lee's entrenched army on higher ground. Confederates inflicted over 15,000 casualties on Grant's troops in less than 48 hours.

The north was outraged over the slaughter....even Lincoln's wife openly referred to Grant as a 'butcher'.
Always been amusing to me how the entertainment industry never made a movie about COLD HARBOR.

Grant failed in every business he attemped prior to the Civil War.
He accepted significant financial 'arrangments' as president....only to loss all the money in bad investments.

Would have died broke had he not mustered the strength to endure his cancer ( Grant was a habitual cigar smoker ) and finish his autobiography. Grant died onlt a few days after its completion.

---

Pickett's charge is taught because it was the turning point in one of the most important battles in the Civil War. Cold Harbor isn't taught because it was Lee's last victory, and it did not have a significant impact on the war. Although the Union lost more men in total in the overland campaign, Lee lost more men relative to his total number. Wouldn't that make Lee the butcher?

Mary Todd didn't like anyone very much and no one liked her. I don't blame her too much given what she went through, but she no military expert so I don't know why I would value her military opinion.

I don't understand your point with the rest... Grant was a bad person because he didn't have an acumen for business?? He was a bad person because he died poor?

You say he fought through a painful cancer to finish his Memoirs so that his family would be taken care of... I think most people would find that extremely admirable.

---

It most certainly was admirable. However he was a mediocre officer in the Mexican American War....and resigned his commission. Failed in business both before and after the civil war. The guy drank far too much and was not particularly bright.

Grant makes the bottom 5 list of US presidents consistently for valid reasons.

---

I'm curious. What criteria do you use in grading Presidents?

Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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The Department of Education hung large banners of American "heroes" on its building in Washington D.C. on Sunday, including Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., Catharine Beecher and Charlie Kirk.

In a video posted to social media by Education Sec. Linda McMahon, the banners… pic.twitter.com/Ota3BgiVYJ

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 2, 2026

---

Grant, an often overlooked American who served and led when needed. Never gets credit he deserves.

George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Steven Jobs
Albert Einstein

---

---

You can't be serious.

Grant was a butcher.....lost men to Lee at almost a 3-1 ratio. Grant simply had a many more men to begin with and understood the math.

---

This is lost cause nonsense. The Union was fighting a mostly offensive war, of course they were going to lose more men. Lee/the confederacy lost every offensive campaign they tried to muster. Grant was the best general in the Civil War and if he was put in charge at the beginning the war would have been won much sooner. Lee was the better tactician, but Grant was the better strategist. Tactics wins battles, but strategy wins war.

Grant's presidency is looked at more favorably now than it typically has been. He pushed for the ratification of the 15th amendment, created the first national park at Yellowstone, and actively tried to dismantle the KKK.

His worst trait was that he was too trusting, which led to the corruption that most historians agreed he had no involvement in.

---

Grant's army outnumbered Lee approx 3-1 and by this time the South was barely able to feed or otherwise supply Lee's troops.

Students are taught about Picket's hopeless charge at Gettysburg.....but weeks after that battle Grant did one even worse at COLD HARBOR. A battle were Grant repeatedly sent his men in suicidial charges against Lee's entrenched army on higher ground. Confederates inflicted over 15,000 casualties on Grant's troops in less than 48 hours.

The north was outraged over the slaughter....even Lincoln's wife openly referred to Grant as a 'butcher'.
Always been amusing to me how the entertainment industry never made a movie about COLD HARBOR.

Grant failed in every business he attemped prior to the Civil War.
He accepted significant financial 'arrangments' as president....only to loss all the money in bad investments.

Would have died broke had he not mustered the strength to endure his cancer ( Grant was a habitual cigar smoker ) and finish his autobiography. Grant died onlt a few days after its completion.

---

Pickett's charge is taught because it was the turning point in one of the most important battles in the Civil War. Cold Harbor isn't taught because it was Lee's last victory, and it did not have a significant impact on the war. Although the Union lost more men in total in the overland campaign, Lee lost more men relative to his total number. Wouldn't that make Lee the butcher?

Mary Todd didn't like anyone very much and no one liked her. I don't blame her too much given what she went through, but she no military expert so I don't know why I would value her military opinion.

I don't understand your point with the rest... Grant was a bad person because he didn't have an acumen for business?? He was a bad person because he died poor?

You say he fought through a painful cancer to finish his Memoirs so that his family would be taken care of... I think most people would find that extremely admirable.

---

It most certainly was admirable. However he was a mediocre officer in the Mexican American War....and resigned his commission. Failed in business both before and after the civil war. The guy drank far too much and was not particularly bright.

Grant makes the bottom 5 list of US presidents consistently for valid reasons.

---

How was he mediocre in the Mexican-American War? He was brevetted multiple times for his acts of bravery, and he served/learned directly from General Taylor.

How does his failed business endeavors before and after his presidency affect his presidency ranking?

Grant was a notorious lightweight and was more of a binge drinker than an alcoholic, and only during the quiet parts of his life when he didn't have anything going on.

He was ranked bottom 5 by historians in the 20th century because of a Southern smear campaign. I'm not claiming his presidency was one of the best, but bottom 5 is crazy. Many worse presidents than Grant.

---

Bottom 5:

1) LBJ
2) George W Bush
3) Biden
4) Obama
5) Carter

The_barBEARian said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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The Department of Education hung large banners of American "heroes" on its building in Washington D.C. on Sunday, including Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., Catharine Beecher and Charlie Kirk.

In a video posted to social media by Education Sec. Linda McMahon, the banners… pic.twitter.com/Ota3BgiVYJ

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 2, 2026

---

Grant, an often overlooked American who served and led when needed. Never gets credit he deserves.

George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Steven Jobs
Albert Einstein

---

---

You can't be serious.

Grant was a butcher.....lost men to Lee at almost a 3-1 ratio. Grant simply had a many more men to begin with and understood the math.

---

This is lost cause nonsense. The Union was fighting a mostly offensive war, of course they were going to lose more men. Lee/the confederacy lost every offensive campaign they tried to muster. Grant was the best general in the Civil War and if he was put in charge at the beginning the war would have been won much sooner. Lee was the better tactician, but Grant was the better strategist. Tactics wins battles, but strategy wins war.

Grant's presidency is looked at more favorably now than it typically has been. He pushed for the ratification of the 15th amendment, created the first national park at Yellowstone, and actively tried to dismantle the KKK.

His worst trait was that he was too trusting, which led to the corruption that most historians agreed he had no involvement in.

---

Ahh yes the 15th amendment that gave us birthright citizenship... what an accomplishment.

---

I know this isn't your thing, but a lot of us find it cool that the government can't prevent people from voting based on their race.

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Are you against voter ID too?

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I'm for US citizens of all races and gender being able to vote.

Are you for bringing back literacy tests even though you'd lose your right to vote?

---

I'm for bringing back the right to vote the way the founding fathers wrote it - that only male landowners could vote.... i'll allow the different races as long as they love America.

The era of white guilt is over, sorry!

---

Just curious, are you employed? Simple yes or no will suffice, don't want to know where.

---

pic.twitter.com/PseUlCwpsi

— Bibawen (@asimbawe) January 29, 2026

---

Well, not everyone reaches a level of maturity to do what is necessary, even if they don't really like it. But, when you have responsibilities, it will dawn on you.

Until then, help your parents around the house and clean up after yourself.

BREAKING: NATO also says that Iran was on the brink of obtaining a nuclear weapon. pic.twitter.com/2ZYpxH24E4

— Eyal Yakoby (@EYakoby) March 3, 2026

The_barBEARian said:

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---

Still pulling up old posters?

It is RARE to see an exchange like this between a cabinet secretary and a senator of their own party.

GOP @SenJohnKennedy went in on Sec. Noem for the $220 million media budget for DHS ads “featuring [Noem] prominently” and raising her own profile, as Kennedy put it pic.twitter.com/nMRHYueOuc

— Joe Khalil (@JoeKhalilTV) March 3, 2026

boognish_bear said:

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It is RARE to see an exchange like this between a cabinet secretary and a senator of their own party.

GOP @SenJohnKennedy went in on Sec. Noem for the $220 million media budget for DHS ads “featuring [Noem] prominently” and raising her own profile, as Kennedy put it pic.twitter.com/nMRHYueOuc

— Joe Khalil (@JoeKhalilTV) March 3, 2026

---

Glad to see the republicans having hard discussions with their own. Healthy for a republic. Voters and Democrats should take note.

Now if we can get the democrats to quit putting party first 100% of the time. Is there anyone else on that side of the aisle besides Fetterman in either chamber?

Well, you are correct that two of those should be considered for 'worst 5' consideration. But you seem to have ignored a lot of History as well.

This is what the left has brought to America;

Liberal says she hopes the heroic U.S. troops “never make it home” and die pic.twitter.com/kclEpBPZhX

— Libs of TikTok (@libsoftiktok) March 2, 2026

Assassin said:

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This is what the left has brought to America;

Liberal says she hopes the heroic U.S. troops “never make it home” and die pic.twitter.com/kclEpBPZhX

— Libs of TikTok (@libsoftiktok) March 2, 2026

---

Say goodbye to any chance of a career

BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Assassin said:

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This is what the left has brought to America;

Liberal says she hopes the heroic U.S. troops “never make it home” and die pic.twitter.com/kclEpBPZhX

— Libs of TikTok (@libsoftiktok) March 2, 2026

---

Say goodbye to any chances of a career

---

She's waiting for the national guaranteed income courtesy of those who do have careers.

House democrats refused to listen to voters and now voters are trying to kick them out of office and house democrats are very upset about it. They believe they are owed their seats and don’t ever have to actually listen to voters or deliver on anything. https://t.co/6ozBR1u1lV

— ♥️❣️Raquel❣️♥️ (@eternallyRaq) March 3, 2026

Oldbear83 said:

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KaiBear said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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The Department of Education hung large banners of American "heroes" on its building in Washington D.C. on Sunday, including Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., Catharine Beecher and Charlie Kirk.

In a video posted to social media by Education Sec. Linda McMahon, the banners… pic.twitter.com/Ota3BgiVYJ

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 2, 2026

---

Grant, an often overlooked American who served and led when needed. Never gets credit he deserves.

George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Steven Jobs
Albert Einstein

---

---

You can't be serious.

Grant was a butcher.....lost men to Lee at almost a 3-1 ratio. Grant simply had a many more men to begin with and understood the math.

---

This is lost cause nonsense. The Union was fighting a mostly offensive war, of course they were going to lose more men. Lee/the confederacy lost every offensive campaign they tried to muster. Grant was the best general in the Civil War and if he was put in charge at the beginning the war would have been won much sooner. Lee was the better tactician, but Grant was the better strategist. Tactics wins battles, but strategy wins war.

Grant's presidency is looked at more favorably now than it typically has been. He pushed for the ratification of the 15th amendment, created the first national park at Yellowstone, and actively tried to dismantle the KKK.

His worst trait was that he was too trusting, which led to the corruption that most historians agreed he had no involvement in.

---

Grant's army outnumbered Lee approx 3-1 and by this time the South was barely able to feed or otherwise supply Lee's troops.

Students are taught about Picket's hopeless charge at Gettysburg.....but weeks after that battle Grant did one even worse at COLD HARBOR. A battle were Grant repeatedly sent his men in suicidial charges against Lee's entrenched army on higher ground. Confederates inflicted over 15,000 casualties on Grant's troops in less than 48 hours.

The north was outraged over the slaughter....even Lincoln's wife openly referred to Grant as a 'butcher'.
Always been amusing to me how the entertainment industry never made a movie about COLD HARBOR.

Grant failed in every business he attemped prior to the Civil War.
He accepted significant financial 'arrangments' as president....only to loss all the money in bad investments.

Would have died broke had he not mustered the strength to endure his cancer ( Grant was a habitual cigar smoker ) and finish his autobiography. Grant died onlt a few days after its completion.

---

Pickett's charge is taught because it was the turning point in one of the most important battles in the Civil War. Cold Harbor isn't taught because it was Lee's last victory, and it did not have a significant impact on the war. Although the Union lost more men in total in the overland campaign, Lee lost more men relative to his total number. Wouldn't that make Lee the butcher?

Mary Todd didn't like anyone very much and no one liked her. I don't blame her too much given what she went through, but she no military expert so I don't know why I would value her military opinion.

I don't understand your point with the rest... Grant was a bad person because he didn't have an acumen for business?? He was a bad person because he died poor?

You say he fought through a painful cancer to finish his Memoirs so that his family would be taken care of... I think most people would find that extremely admirable.

---

It most certainly was admirable. However he was a mediocre officer in the Mexican American War....and resigned his commission. Failed in business both before and after the civil war. The guy drank far too much and was not particularly bright.

Grant makes the bottom 5 list of US presidents consistently for valid reasons.

---

I'm curious. What criteria do you use in grading Presidents?

---

Accomplishments vs lack of accomplishments or acts destructive to the American people.

Most accomplished

Washington
Polk
T. Roosevelt
F. Roosevelt
Reagan

Most destructive

Biden
Wilson
LBJ
Obama
Nixon

So, subjective as hell.

As expected.

KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

---

The Department of Education hung large banners of American "heroes" on its building in Washington D.C. on Sunday, including Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., Catharine Beecher and Charlie Kirk.

In a video posted to social media by Education Sec. Linda McMahon, the banners… pic.twitter.com/Ota3BgiVYJ

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 2, 2026

---

Grant, an often overlooked American who served and led when needed. Never gets credit he deserves.

George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Steven Jobs
Albert Einstein

---

---

You can't be serious.

Grant was a butcher.....lost men to Lee at almost a 3-1 ratio. Grant simply had a many more men to begin with and understood the math.

As president he bungled 'reconstruction' throughout the south; had several corruption scandals in his administration and failed to reach any fair settlement with the various indian tribes of the West.

After Grant left office he went broke on some bad business investments. While dying of throat cancer he managed to complete his autobiography. ( probably the bravest act of his life )

After his death the book did provide enough money for his widow to live on.

Historians across the spectrum have Grant in the bottom 5 of all US presidents.

---

There are a whole list of generals that have "understood" the math and lost men at much greater rates than the enemy but win the war. Some of them did so in much worse fashion than Grant. At least with him the majority of the time it was while winning battles, forcing Lee to retreat, capturing land, etc.

Unlike many of the others that simply threw men into meat grinders for no gain, mere yards, or just to kill a few enemy and waste their supplies until eventually they ran out.

Oldbear83 said:

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So, subjective as hell.

As expected.

---

LOL


All writen history is subjective.


Sorry to waste both of our time.

Assassin said:

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BREAKING: NATO also says that Iran was on the brink of obtaining a nuclear weapon. pic.twitter.com/2ZYpxH24E4

— Eyal Yakoby (@EYakoby) March 3, 2026

---

This can't be. Trump told us the strike a few months ago completely destroyed their weapons program.

So which is it? They almost had one (which means the strike was not successful)? Or the strike was successful?

BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Assassin said:

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This is what the left has brought to America;

Liberal says she hopes the heroic U.S. troops “never make it home” and die pic.twitter.com/kclEpBPZhX

— Libs of TikTok (@libsoftiktok) March 2, 2026

---

Say goodbye to any chance of a career

---

Nah she will have a great career in many parts of the country. They might even promote her for thoughts like this.

Meanwhile in many parts of the country she would get ostracized or fired for saying the opposite.

cowboycwr said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

---

The Department of Education hung large banners of American "heroes" on its building in Washington D.C. on Sunday, including Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., Catharine Beecher and Charlie Kirk.

In a video posted to social media by Education Sec. Linda McMahon, the banners… pic.twitter.com/Ota3BgiVYJ

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 2, 2026

---

Grant, an often overlooked American who served and led when needed. Never gets credit he deserves.

George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Steven Jobs
Albert Einstein

---

---

You can't be serious.

Grant was a butcher.....lost men to Lee at almost a 3-1 ratio. Grant simply had a many more men to begin with and understood the math.

As president he bungled 'reconstruction' throughout the south; had several corruption scandals in his administration and failed to reach any fair settlement with the various indian tribes of the West.

After Grant left office he went broke on some bad business investments. While dying of throat cancer he managed to complete his autobiography. ( probably the bravest act of his life )

After his death the book did provide enough money for his widow to live on.

Historians across the spectrum have Grant in the bottom 5 of all US presidents.

---

There are a whole list of generals that have "understood" the math and lost men at much greater rates than the enemy but win the war. Some of them did so in much worse fashion than Grant. At least with him the majority of the time it was while winning battles, forcing Lee to retreat, capturing land, etc.

Unlike many of the others that simply threw men into meat grinders for no gain, mere yards, or just to kill a few enemy and waste their supplies until eventually they ran out.

---

LOL

Within reason your are correct.......there certainly have been 'worse'.


Among the worst were all the generals of Germany, France , England and the United States during WW1.

Who repeatedly attacked entrenched machine guns with wave after wave of infantry....over open ground.

Not unusual for the attackers to lose over 10,000 men in a single day.

With 53% of vote in, Abbott-backed John Lujan leads Trump-backed Carlos De La Cruz in #TX35 primary, 38-24.

This is one Dems are watching; DCCC added the district to target list after redistricting. #TX35

— Patrick Svitek (@PatrickSvitek) March 4, 2026

BREAKING: Poland has said it will now work on getting its own nuclear weapons, per Bloomberg

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) March 3, 2026

KaiBear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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KaiBear said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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The Department of Education hung large banners of American "heroes" on its building in Washington D.C. on Sunday, including Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., Catharine Beecher and Charlie Kirk.

In a video posted to social media by Education Sec. Linda McMahon, the banners… pic.twitter.com/Ota3BgiVYJ

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 2, 2026

---

Grant, an often overlooked American who served and led when needed. Never gets credit he deserves.

George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Steven Jobs
Albert Einstein

---

---

You can't be serious.

Grant was a butcher.....lost men to Lee at almost a 3-1 ratio. Grant simply had a many more men to begin with and understood the math.

---

This is lost cause nonsense. The Union was fighting a mostly offensive war, of course they were going to lose more men. Lee/the confederacy lost every offensive campaign they tried to muster. Grant was the best general in the Civil War and if he was put in charge at the beginning the war would have been won much sooner. Lee was the better tactician, but Grant was the better strategist. Tactics wins battles, but strategy wins war.

Grant's presidency is looked at more favorably now than it typically has been. He pushed for the ratification of the 15th amendment, created the first national park at Yellowstone, and actively tried to dismantle the KKK.

His worst trait was that he was too trusting, which led to the corruption that most historians agreed he had no involvement in.

---

Grant's army outnumbered Lee approx 3-1 and by this time the South was barely able to feed or otherwise supply Lee's troops.

Students are taught about Picket's hopeless charge at Gettysburg.....but weeks after that battle Grant did one even worse at COLD HARBOR. A battle were Grant repeatedly sent his men in suicidial charges against Lee's entrenched army on higher ground. Confederates inflicted over 15,000 casualties on Grant's troops in less than 48 hours.

The north was outraged over the slaughter....even Lincoln's wife openly referred to Grant as a 'butcher'.
Always been amusing to me how the entertainment industry never made a movie about COLD HARBOR.

Grant failed in every business he attemped prior to the Civil War.
He accepted significant financial 'arrangments' as president....only to loss all the money in bad investments.

Would have died broke had he not mustered the strength to endure his cancer ( Grant was a habitual cigar smoker ) and finish his autobiography. Grant died onlt a few days after its completion.

---

Pickett's charge is taught because it was the turning point in one of the most important battles in the Civil War. Cold Harbor isn't taught because it was Lee's last victory, and it did not have a significant impact on the war. Although the Union lost more men in total in the overland campaign, Lee lost more men relative to his total number. Wouldn't that make Lee the butcher?

Mary Todd didn't like anyone very much and no one liked her. I don't blame her too much given what she went through, but she no military expert so I don't know why I would value her military opinion.

I don't understand your point with the rest... Grant was a bad person because he didn't have an acumen for business?? He was a bad person because he died poor?

You say he fought through a painful cancer to finish his Memoirs so that his family would be taken care of... I think most people would find that extremely admirable.

---

It most certainly was admirable. However he was a mediocre officer in the Mexican American War....and resigned his commission. Failed in business both before and after the civil war. The guy drank far too much and was not particularly bright.

Grant makes the bottom 5 list of US presidents consistently for valid reasons.

---

I'm curious. What criteria do you use in grading Presidents?

---

Accomplishments vs lack of accomplishments or acts destructive to the American people.

Most accomplished

Washington
Polk
T. Roosevelt
F. Roosevelt
Reagan

Most destructive

Biden
Wilson
LBJ
Obama
Nixon

---

Trump belongs in the "most accomplished" category. Depending on how the last 3 years go (and specifically whether he will be able to get Vance/Rubio elected), he might push FDR for top of the list. So many things....transforming us from a consumer economy to a production economy......conducting the next census, which will move the Electoral College into structurally red territory...cementing a generation conservative SCOTUS judges.

No POTUS in my lifetime has worked to implement the platform with such urgent resolve. He has not an ounce of the Bushie notion that we cannot push too hard for fear of losing the next election. He understands that we elections will be lost, therefore the most important thing is to actually accomplish as much of your agenda as you can before the loss happens. So refreshing.

That's the way Dems do it. The enact their agenda. If it costs them elections....fine. Then the GOP has to spend its capital undoing the Democrat agenda (rather than enacting the GOP agenda). That is the proper way to play the game.

KaiBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

The Department of Education hung large banners of American "heroes" on its building in Washington D.C. on Sunday, including Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., Catharine Beecher and Charlie Kirk.

In a video posted to social media by Education Sec. Linda McMahon, the banners… pic.twitter.com/Ota3BgiVYJ

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 2, 2026

---

Grant, an often overlooked American who served and led when needed. Never gets credit he deserves.

George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Steven Jobs
Albert Einstein

---

---

You can't be serious.

Grant was a butcher.....lost men to Lee at almost a 3-1 ratio. Grant simply had a many more men to begin with and understood the math.

---

This is lost cause nonsense. The Union was fighting a mostly offensive war, of course they were going to lose more men. Lee/the confederacy lost every offensive campaign they tried to muster. Grant was the best general in the Civil War and if he was put in charge at the beginning the war would have been won much sooner. Lee was the better tactician, but Grant was the better strategist. Tactics wins battles, but strategy wins war.

Grant's presidency is looked at more favorably now than it typically has been. He pushed for the ratification of the 15th amendment, created the first national park at Yellowstone, and actively tried to dismantle the KKK.

His worst trait was that he was too trusting, which led to the corruption that most historians agreed he had no involvement in.

---

Grant's army outnumbered Lee approx 3-1 and by this time the South was barely able to feed or otherwise supply Lee's troops.

Students are taught about Picket's hopeless charge at Gettysburg.....but weeks after that battle Grant did one even worse at COLD HARBOR. A battle were Grant repeatedly sent his men in suicidial charges against Lee's entrenched army on higher ground. Confederates inflicted over 15,000 casualties on Grant's troops in less than 48 hours.

The north was outraged over the slaughter....even Lincoln's wife openly referred to Grant as a 'butcher'.
Always been amusing to me how the entertainment industry never made a movie about COLD HARBOR.

Grant failed in every business he attemped prior to the Civil War.
He accepted significant financial 'arrangments' as president....only to loss all the money in bad investments.

Would have died broke had he not mustered the strength to endure his cancer ( Grant was a habitual cigar smoker ) and finish his autobiography. Grant died onlt a few days after its completion.

---

Pickett's charge is taught because it was the turning point in one of the most important battles in the Civil War. Cold Harbor isn't taught because it was Lee's last victory, and it did not have a significant impact on the war. Although the Union lost more men in total in the overland campaign, Lee lost more men relative to his total number. Wouldn't that make Lee the butcher?

Mary Todd didn't like anyone very much and no one liked her. I don't blame her too much given what she went through, but she no military expert so I don't know why I would value her military opinion.

I don't understand your point with the rest... Grant was a bad person because he didn't have an acumen for business?? He was a bad person because he died poor?

You say he fought through a painful cancer to finish his Memoirs so that his family would be taken care of... I think most people would find that extremely admirable.

---

It most certainly was admirable. However he was a mediocre officer in the Mexican American War....and resigned his commission. Failed in business both before and after the civil war. The guy drank far too much and was not particularly bright.

Grant makes the bottom 5 list of US presidents consistently for valid reasons.

---

I'm curious. What criteria do you use in grading Presidents?

---

Accomplishments vs lack of accomplishments or acts destructive to the American people.

Most accomplished

Washington
Polk
T. Roosevelt
F. Roosevelt
Reagan

Most destructive

Biden
Wilson
LBJ
Obama
Nixon

---

Top 5:

1) Washington (Obviously)
2) Thomas Jefferson
3) Andrew Jackson
4) James Monroe
5) Nixon (Ended Vietnam and saved my dad's life. Easily the most unfairly treated President in history)

Honorable Mention: J Polk, T Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Ronald Reagan (He would be in the top 5 if not for him granting blanket amnesty - should have removed birthright citizenship in exchange)

KaiBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

So, subjective as hell.

As expected.

---

LOL


All writen history is subjective.


Sorry to waste both of our time.

---

Any rational evaluation starts with definition of expectations, standardized metrics, and application of objective controls, such as not grading a President within a certain time after leaving office. Schlesinger once said no President should be judged within 20 years of leaving office, but he forgot that as soon as he could attack a Republican.

Things like ending wars successfully (especially wars started by someone else), improving GDP and lowering the debt (I know, stop laughing), signing meaningful treaties.

The thing about 'Historians' is that they package everything as a narrative. So Trump's economic and border accomplishments first term or now are ignored in favor of mocking Trump's speaking style, his presumed lack of eloquence, and of course scurrilous rumors floated without evidence. In the same way, 'historians' ignore Obama's extraconstitutional use of drones to kill American citizens, blame Vietnam on Nixon rather than LBJ and ignore JFK's own part. The same 'historians' ignore the disaster of FDR's first two terms in actually recovering from the Depression, while blaming it on Coolidge out of spite.

Those same 'historians' ignore the success of John Adams and Polk's territory expansion, ignore Clinton's sex crimes while all but making up claims to smear whatever Republican is in office.

It's not a 'waste of time' to insist on and use standard definitions and clear measurements. It's unacceptable to let academics continue a lie they themselves know should have been eviscerated decades ago.

whiterock said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

The Department of Education hung large banners of American "heroes" on its building in Washington D.C. on Sunday, including Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., Catharine Beecher and Charlie Kirk.

In a video posted to social media by Education Sec. Linda McMahon, the banners… pic.twitter.com/Ota3BgiVYJ

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 2, 2026

---

Grant, an often overlooked American who served and led when needed. Never gets credit he deserves.

George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Steven Jobs
Albert Einstein

---

---

You can't be serious.

Grant was a butcher.....lost men to Lee at almost a 3-1 ratio. Grant simply had a many more men to begin with and understood the math.

---

This is lost cause nonsense. The Union was fighting a mostly offensive war, of course they were going to lose more men. Lee/the confederacy lost every offensive campaign they tried to muster. Grant was the best general in the Civil War and if he was put in charge at the beginning the war would have been won much sooner. Lee was the better tactician, but Grant was the better strategist. Tactics wins battles, but strategy wins war.

Grant's presidency is looked at more favorably now than it typically has been. He pushed for the ratification of the 15th amendment, created the first national park at Yellowstone, and actively tried to dismantle the KKK.

His worst trait was that he was too trusting, which led to the corruption that most historians agreed he had no involvement in.

---

Grant's army outnumbered Lee approx 3-1 and by this time the South was barely able to feed or otherwise supply Lee's troops.

Students are taught about Picket's hopeless charge at Gettysburg.....but weeks after that battle Grant did one even worse at COLD HARBOR. A battle were Grant repeatedly sent his men in suicidial charges against Lee's entrenched army on higher ground. Confederates inflicted over 15,000 casualties on Grant's troops in less than 48 hours.

The north was outraged over the slaughter....even Lincoln's wife openly referred to Grant as a 'butcher'.
Always been amusing to me how the entertainment industry never made a movie about COLD HARBOR.

Grant failed in every business he attemped prior to the Civil War.
He accepted significant financial 'arrangments' as president....only to loss all the money in bad investments.

Would have died broke had he not mustered the strength to endure his cancer ( Grant was a habitual cigar smoker ) and finish his autobiography. Grant died onlt a few days after its completion.

---

Pickett's charge is taught because it was the turning point in one of the most important battles in the Civil War. Cold Harbor isn't taught because it was Lee's last victory, and it did not have a significant impact on the war. Although the Union lost more men in total in the overland campaign, Lee lost more men relative to his total number. Wouldn't that make Lee the butcher?

Mary Todd didn't like anyone very much and no one liked her. I don't blame her too much given what she went through, but she no military expert so I don't know why I would value her military opinion.

I don't understand your point with the rest... Grant was a bad person because he didn't have an acumen for business?? He was a bad person because he died poor?

You say he fought through a painful cancer to finish his Memoirs so that his family would be taken care of... I think most people would find that extremely admirable.

---

It most certainly was admirable. However he was a mediocre officer in the Mexican American War....and resigned his commission. Failed in business both before and after the civil war. The guy drank far too much and was not particularly bright.

Grant makes the bottom 5 list of US presidents consistently for valid reasons.

---

I'm curious. What criteria do you use in grading Presidents?

---

Accomplishments vs lack of accomplishments or acts destructive to the American people.

Most accomplished

Washington
Polk
T. Roosevelt
F. Roosevelt
Reagan

Most destructive

Biden
Wilson
LBJ
Obama
Nixon

---

Trump belongs in the "most accomplished" category. Depending on how the last 3 years go (and specifically whether he will be able to get Vance/Rubio elected), he might push FDR for top of the list. So many things....transforming us from a consumer economy to a production economy......conducting the next census, which will move the Electoral College into structurally red territory...cementing a generation conservative SCOTUS judges.

No POTUS in my lifetime has worked to implement the platform with such urgent resolve. He has not an ounce of the Bushie notion that we cannot push too hard for fear of losing the next election. He understands that we elections will be lost, therefore the most important thing is to actually accomplish as much of your agenda as you can before the loss happens. So refreshing.

That's the way Dems do it. The enact their agenda. If it costs them elections....fine. Then the GOP has to spend its capital undoing the Democrat agenda (rather than enacting the GOP agenda). That is the proper way to play the game.

---

IMO Trump is in the 'undecided ' column. Until he allowed Israel to use our military to save their ass ( again ) I might have ranked him higher,

But this bull**** war could end up getting hundreds of thousands of people killed.

This war is NOT in the strategic interest of the United States. This is NOT putting America First.
This war is about bribery of our entire federal government.

However now that we have already been manipulated into being Israel's pigeon once again.......I hope our military can completely destroy Iran without the need for ground troops.

War is anything but 'amazing' at eye level.

KaiBear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

The Department of Education hung large banners of American "heroes" on its building in Washington D.C. on Sunday, including Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., Catharine Beecher and Charlie Kirk.

In a video posted to social media by Education Sec. Linda McMahon, the banners… pic.twitter.com/Ota3BgiVYJ

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 2, 2026

---

Grant, an often overlooked American who served and led when needed. Never gets credit he deserves.

George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Steven Jobs
Albert Einstein

---

---

You can't be serious.

Grant was a butcher.....lost men to Lee at almost a 3-1 ratio. Grant simply had a many more men to begin with and understood the math.

---

This is lost cause nonsense. The Union was fighting a mostly offensive war, of course they were going to lose more men. Lee/the confederacy lost every offensive campaign they tried to muster. Grant was the best general in the Civil War and if he was put in charge at the beginning the war would have been won much sooner. Lee was the better tactician, but Grant was the better strategist. Tactics wins battles, but strategy wins war.

Grant's presidency is looked at more favorably now than it typically has been. He pushed for the ratification of the 15th amendment, created the first national park at Yellowstone, and actively tried to dismantle the KKK.

His worst trait was that he was too trusting, which led to the corruption that most historians agreed he had no involvement in.

---

Grant's army outnumbered Lee approx 3-1 and by this time the South was barely able to feed or otherwise supply Lee's troops.

Students are taught about Picket's hopeless charge at Gettysburg.....but weeks after that battle Grant did one even worse at COLD HARBOR. A battle were Grant repeatedly sent his men in suicidial charges against Lee's entrenched army on higher ground. Confederates inflicted over 15,000 casualties on Grant's troops in less than 48 hours.

The north was outraged over the slaughter....even Lincoln's wife openly referred to Grant as a 'butcher'.
Always been amusing to me how the entertainment industry never made a movie about COLD HARBOR.

Grant failed in every business he attemped prior to the Civil War.
He accepted significant financial 'arrangments' as president....only to loss all the money in bad investments.

Would have died broke had he not mustered the strength to endure his cancer ( Grant was a habitual cigar smoker ) and finish his autobiography. Grant died onlt a few days after its completion.

---

Pickett's charge is taught because it was the turning point in one of the most important battles in the Civil War. Cold Harbor isn't taught because it was Lee's last victory, and it did not have a significant impact on the war. Although the Union lost more men in total in the overland campaign, Lee lost more men relative to his total number. Wouldn't that make Lee the butcher?

Mary Todd didn't like anyone very much and no one liked her. I don't blame her too much given what she went through, but she no military expert so I don't know why I would value her military opinion.

I don't understand your point with the rest... Grant was a bad person because he didn't have an acumen for business?? He was a bad person because he died poor?

You say he fought through a painful cancer to finish his Memoirs so that his family would be taken care of... I think most people would find that extremely admirable.

---

It most certainly was admirable. However he was a mediocre officer in the Mexican American War....and resigned his commission. Failed in business both before and after the civil war. The guy drank far too much and was not particularly bright.

Grant makes the bottom 5 list of US presidents consistently for valid reasons.

---

I'm curious. What criteria do you use in grading Presidents?

---

Accomplishments vs lack of accomplishments or acts destructive to the American people.

Most accomplished

Washington
Polk
T. Roosevelt
F. Roosevelt
Reagan

Most destructive

Biden
Wilson
LBJ
Obama
Nixon

---

Trump belongs in the "most accomplished" category. Depending on how the last 3 years go (and specifically whether he will be able to get Vance/Rubio elected), he might push FDR for top of the list. So many things....transforming us from a consumer economy to a production economy......conducting the next census, which will move the Electoral College into structurally red territory...cementing a generation conservative SCOTUS judges.

No POTUS in my lifetime has worked to implement the platform with such urgent resolve. He has not an ounce of the Bushie notion that we cannot push too hard for fear of losing the next election. He understands that we elections will be lost, therefore the most important thing is to actually accomplish as much of your agenda as you can before the loss happens. So refreshing.

That's the way Dems do it. The enact their agenda. If it costs them elections....fine. Then the GOP has to spend its capital undoing the Democrat agenda (rather than enacting the GOP agenda). That is the proper way to play the game.

---

IMO Trump is in the 'undecided ' column. Until he allowed Israel to use our military to save their ass ( again ) I might have ranked him higher,

But this bull**** war could end up getting hundreds of thousands of people killed.

This war is NOT in the strategic interest of the United States. This is NOT putting America First.
This war is about bribery of our entire federal government.

However now that we have already been manipulated into being Israel's pigeon once again.......I hope our military can completely destroy Iran without the need for ground troops.

War is anything but 'amazing' at eye level.

---

Completely agree... up until a week ago I would have had Trump ranked highly despite his missteps during COVID.

Oldbear83 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

So, subjective as hell.

As expected.

---

LOL


All writen history is subjective.


Sorry to waste both of our time.

---

Any rational evaluation starts with definition of expectations, standardized metrics, and application of objective controls, such as not grading a President within a certain time after leaving office. Schlesinger once said no President should be judged within 20 years of leaving office, but he forgot that as soon as he could attack a Republican.

Things like ending wars successfully (especially wars started by someone else), improving GDP and lowering the debt (I know, stop laughing), signing meaningful treaties.

The thing about 'Historians' is that they package everything as a narrative. So Trump's economic and border accomplishments first term or now are ignored in favor of mocking Trump's speaking style, his presumed lack of eloquence, and of course scurrilous rumors floated without evidence. In the same way, 'historians' ignore Obama's extraconstitutional use of drones to kill American citizens, blame Vietnam on Nixon rather than LBJ and ignore JFK's own part. The same 'historians' ignore the disaster of FDR's first two terms in actually recovering from the Depression, while blaming it on Coolidge out of spite.

Those same 'historians' ignore the success of John Adams and Polk's territory expansion, ignore Clinton's sex crimes while all but making up claims to smear whatever Republican is in office.

It's not a 'waste of time' to insist on and use standard definitions and clear measurements. It's unacceptable to let academics continue a lie they themselves know should have been eviscerated decades ago.

---

You make some good points.

Lets see your lists.

The way Tillis is legislating on his way out of Congress provides some insight into how they all might behave if we had term limits and broke the two party system’s stranglehold on representative’s guts. https://t.co/RQNsEwcmCZ

— Hannah Cox (@HannahDCox) March 3, 2026

KaiBear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

The Department of Education hung large banners of American "heroes" on its building in Washington D.C. on Sunday, including Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., Catharine Beecher and Charlie Kirk.

In a video posted to social media by Education Sec. Linda McMahon, the banners… pic.twitter.com/Ota3BgiVYJ

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 2, 2026

---

Grant, an often overlooked American who served and led when needed. Never gets credit he deserves.

George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Steven Jobs
Albert Einstein

---

---

You can't be serious.

Grant was a butcher.....lost men to Lee at almost a 3-1 ratio. Grant simply had a many more men to begin with and understood the math.

---

This is lost cause nonsense. The Union was fighting a mostly offensive war, of course they were going to lose more men. Lee/the confederacy lost every offensive campaign they tried to muster. Grant was the best general in the Civil War and if he was put in charge at the beginning the war would have been won much sooner. Lee was the better tactician, but Grant was the better strategist. Tactics wins battles, but strategy wins war.

Grant's presidency is looked at more favorably now than it typically has been. He pushed for the ratification of the 15th amendment, created the first national park at Yellowstone, and actively tried to dismantle the KKK.

His worst trait was that he was too trusting, which led to the corruption that most historians agreed he had no involvement in.

---

Grant's army outnumbered Lee approx 3-1 and by this time the South was barely able to feed or otherwise supply Lee's troops.

Students are taught about Picket's hopeless charge at Gettysburg.....but weeks after that battle Grant did one even worse at COLD HARBOR. A battle were Grant repeatedly sent his men in suicidial charges against Lee's entrenched army on higher ground. Confederates inflicted over 15,000 casualties on Grant's troops in less than 48 hours.

The north was outraged over the slaughter....even Lincoln's wife openly referred to Grant as a 'butcher'.
Always been amusing to me how the entertainment industry never made a movie about COLD HARBOR.

Grant failed in every business he attemped prior to the Civil War.
He accepted significant financial 'arrangments' as president....only to loss all the money in bad investments.

Would have died broke had he not mustered the strength to endure his cancer ( Grant was a habitual cigar smoker ) and finish his autobiography. Grant died onlt a few days after its completion.

---

Pickett's charge is taught because it was the turning point in one of the most important battles in the Civil War. Cold Harbor isn't taught because it was Lee's last victory, and it did not have a significant impact on the war. Although the Union lost more men in total in the overland campaign, Lee lost more men relative to his total number. Wouldn't that make Lee the butcher?

Mary Todd didn't like anyone very much and no one liked her. I don't blame her too much given what she went through, but she no military expert so I don't know why I would value her military opinion.

I don't understand your point with the rest... Grant was a bad person because he didn't have an acumen for business?? He was a bad person because he died poor?

You say he fought through a painful cancer to finish his Memoirs so that his family would be taken care of... I think most people would find that extremely admirable.

---

It most certainly was admirable. However he was a mediocre officer in the Mexican American War....and resigned his commission. Failed in business both before and after the civil war. The guy drank far too much and was not particularly bright.

Grant makes the bottom 5 list of US presidents consistently for valid reasons.

---

I'm curious. What criteria do you use in grading Presidents?

---

Accomplishments vs lack of accomplishments or acts destructive to the American people.

Most accomplished

Washington
Polk
T. Roosevelt
F. Roosevelt
Reagan

Most destructive

Biden
Wilson
LBJ
Obama
Nixon

---

Trump belongs in the "most accomplished" category. Depending on how the last 3 years go (and specifically whether he will be able to get Vance/Rubio elected), he might push FDR for top of the list. So many things....transforming us from a consumer economy to a production economy......conducting the next census, which will move the Electoral College into structurally red territory...cementing a generation conservative SCOTUS judges.

No POTUS in my lifetime has worked to implement the platform with such urgent resolve. He has not an ounce of the Bushie notion that we cannot push too hard for fear of losing the next election. He understands that we elections will be lost, therefore the most important thing is to actually accomplish as much of your agenda as you can before the loss happens. So refreshing.

That's the way Dems do it. The enact their agenda. If it costs them elections....fine. Then the GOP has to spend its capital undoing the Democrat agenda (rather than enacting the GOP agenda). That is the proper way to play the game.

---

IMO Trump is in the 'undecided ' column. Until he allowed Israel to use our military to save their ass ( again ) I might have ranked him higher,

But this bull**** war could end up getting hundreds of thousands of people killed.

This war is NOT in the strategic interest of the United States. This is NOT putting America First.
This war is about bribery of our entire federal government.

However now that we have already been manipulated into being Israel's pigeon once again.......I hope our military can completely destroy Iran without the need for ground troops.

War is anything but 'amazing' at eye level.

---

Oof, be prepared for the masses to attack you. SE365 is deep Neocon territory

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

The Department of Education hung large banners of American "heroes" on its building in Washington D.C. on Sunday, including Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., Catharine Beecher and Charlie Kirk.

In a video posted to social media by Education Sec. Linda McMahon, the banners… pic.twitter.com/Ota3BgiVYJ

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 2, 2026

---

Grant, an often overlooked American who served and led when needed. Never gets credit he deserves.

George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Steven Jobs
Albert Einstein

---

---

You can't be serious.

Grant was a butcher.....lost men to Lee at almost a 3-1 ratio. Grant simply had a many more men to begin with and understood the math.

---

This is lost cause nonsense. The Union was fighting a mostly offensive war, of course they were going to lose more men. Lee/the confederacy lost every offensive campaign they tried to muster. Grant was the best general in the Civil War and if he was put in charge at the beginning the war would have been won much sooner. Lee was the better tactician, but Grant was the better strategist. Tactics wins battles, but strategy wins war.

Grant's presidency is looked at more favorably now than it typically has been. He pushed for the ratification of the 15th amendment, created the first national park at Yellowstone, and actively tried to dismantle the KKK.

His worst trait was that he was too trusting, which led to the corruption that most historians agreed he had no involvement in.

---

Grant's army outnumbered Lee approx 3-1 and by this time the South was barely able to feed or otherwise supply Lee's troops.

Students are taught about Picket's hopeless charge at Gettysburg.....but weeks after that battle Grant did one even worse at COLD HARBOR. A battle were Grant repeatedly sent his men in suicidial charges against Lee's entrenched army on higher ground. Confederates inflicted over 15,000 casualties on Grant's troops in less than 48 hours.

The north was outraged over the slaughter....even Lincoln's wife openly referred to Grant as a 'butcher'.
Always been amusing to me how the entertainment industry never made a movie about COLD HARBOR.

Grant failed in every business he attemped prior to the Civil War.
He accepted significant financial 'arrangments' as president....only to loss all the money in bad investments.

Would have died broke had he not mustered the strength to endure his cancer ( Grant was a habitual cigar smoker ) and finish his autobiography. Grant died onlt a few days after its completion.

---

Pickett's charge is taught because it was the turning point in one of the most important battles in the Civil War. Cold Harbor isn't taught because it was Lee's last victory, and it did not have a significant impact on the war. Although the Union lost more men in total in the overland campaign, Lee lost more men relative to his total number. Wouldn't that make Lee the butcher?

Mary Todd didn't like anyone very much and no one liked her. I don't blame her too much given what she went through, but she no military expert so I don't know why I would value her military opinion.

I don't understand your point with the rest... Grant was a bad person because he didn't have an acumen for business?? He was a bad person because he died poor?

You say he fought through a painful cancer to finish his Memoirs so that his family would be taken care of... I think most people would find that extremely admirable.

---

It most certainly was admirable. However he was a mediocre officer in the Mexican American War....and resigned his commission. Failed in business both before and after the civil war. The guy drank far too much and was not particularly bright.

Grant makes the bottom 5 list of US presidents consistently for valid reasons.

---

I'm curious. What criteria do you use in grading Presidents?

---

Accomplishments vs lack of accomplishments or acts destructive to the American people.

Most accomplished

Washington
Polk
T. Roosevelt
F. Roosevelt
Reagan

Most destructive

Biden
Wilson
LBJ
Obama
Nixon

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Trump belongs in the "most accomplished" category. Depending on how the last 3 years go (and specifically whether he will be able to get Vance/Rubio elected), he might push FDR for top of the list. So many things....transforming us from a consumer economy to a production economy......conducting the next census, which will move the Electoral College into structurally red territory...cementing a generation conservative SCOTUS judges.

No POTUS in my lifetime has worked to implement the platform with such urgent resolve. He has not an ounce of the Bushie notion that we cannot push too hard for fear of losing the next election. He understands that we elections will be lost, therefore the most important thing is to actually accomplish as much of your agenda as you can before the loss happens. So refreshing.

That's the way Dems do it. The enact their agenda. If it costs them elections....fine. Then the GOP has to spend its capital undoing the Democrat agenda (rather than enacting the GOP agenda). That is the proper way to play the game.

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IMO Trump is in the 'undecided ' column. Until he allowed Israel to use our military to save their ass ( again ) I might have ranked him higher,

But this bull**** war could end up getting hundreds of thousands of people killed.

This war is NOT in the strategic interest of the United States. This is NOT putting America First.
This war is about bribery of our entire federal government.

However now that we have already been manipulated into being Israel's pigeon once again.......I hope our military can completely destroy Iran without the need for ground troops.

War is anything but 'amazing' at eye level.

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Oof, be prepared for the masses to attack you. SE365 is deep Neocon territory

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There are far worse things than getting battered around on a free message board.

Hope to hell Rubio can get a handful of Arab countries to send thousands of peace keepers into Iran once our Navy and Air Force annihilate the Iranian military. ESPECIALLY their republican guard formations.

Oldbear83 said:

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Well, you are correct that two of those should be considered for 'worst 5' consideration. But you seem to have ignored a lot of History as well.

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Early American history is loaded with lots of excellent Presidents and modern American history is loaded with lots of mediocre to abysmal Presidents.

cowboycwr said:

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Assassin said:

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BREAKING: NATO also says that Iran was on the brink of obtaining a nuclear weapon. pic.twitter.com/2ZYpxH24E4

— Eyal Yakoby (@EYakoby) March 3, 2026

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This can't be. Trump told us the strike a few months ago completely destroyed their weapons program.

So which is it? They almost had one (which means the strike was not successful)? Or the strike was successful?

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Recent negotiations revealed that Iran had a stockpile of 11 tons of 60% enriched uranium. Restarting their enrichment could get them weapons grade material in a couple of weeks for 11 nuclear devices. The centrifuges were destroyed, but this material was kept elsewhere.

EatMoreSalmon said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Assassin said:

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BREAKING: NATO also says that Iran was on the brink of obtaining a nuclear weapon. pic.twitter.com/2ZYpxH24E4

— Eyal Yakoby (@EYakoby) March 3, 2026

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This can't be. Trump told us the strike a few months ago completely destroyed their weapons program.

So which is it? They almost had one (which means the strike was not successful)? Or the strike was successful?

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Recent negotiations revealed that Iran had a stockpile of 11 tons of 60% enriched uranium. Restarting their enrichment could get them weapons grade material in a couple of weeks for 11 nuclear devices. The centrifuges were destroyed, but this material was kept elsewhere.

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Sooooo Trump lied or overstated the effectiveness of the strike???