There's No Way Elon Musk's Job Is Legal

2,314 Views | 69 Replies | Last: 8 hrs ago by Doc Holliday
Sam Lowry
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There's No Way Elon Musk's Job is Legal
"Checks and balances, at the moment, seem to be neutralized."
Pema Levy

"There's probably no person on the planet who has more varied business interests before the US government than Elon Musk," says Robert Weissman, co-president of Public Citizen, a consumer advocacy nonprofit, "and therefore, no person who would be more conflicted and less appropriate to have the role he has than Elon Musk."

Musk, as far as we know, doesn't even have a job title. It took two weeks for the administration to even confirm that he is employed, saying that he has been categorized as a special government employee. This is a category of federal employee, generally a consultant or expert, hired on a temporary basis. They typically have fewer ethical limitations and disclosure requirements than full government employees, but Musk is still subject to criminal laws regarding bribery and gratuities, as well as laws restricting gifts to superiors and from inferior employees.

"The way it's supposed to happen under normal circumstances is a special government employee would provide a list of all his financial interests to an ethics official within the agency, as well as the Office of Government Ethics, and then they could point out and also monitor any potential conflicts of interest," says Kedric Payne, an expert in government ethics at the nonprofit Campaign Legal Center. "Then you would also expect that special government employee to get pre-approval before there were any meetings or decisions that even gave the appearance that it may be a conflict of interest."

If that's the normal course of action, we are in the upside down. Not only does there appear to be no compliance mechanism in effect, but President Donald Trump has removed the ethics officials who could police Musk's work. Not only did Trump fire the head of the Office of Government Ethics, 17 inspectors general have been axes (plus another who later crossed Musk) along with the head of the Office of Special Counsel, which investigates whistleblower complaints. In their place, Trump press secretary Karoline Leavitt has said, Musk will police himself: "If Elon Musk comes across a conflict of interest with the contracts and the funding that DOGE is overseeing, that Elon will excuse himself from those contracts, and he has again abided by all applicable laws."

Last Monday, Sen. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) sent a letter to Susie Wiles, Trump's chief of staff, as well as the director of the Office of Government Ethics, asking whether and how Musk is complying with applicable criminal conflict of interest laws. The director of the ethics office was fired later that day. Schiff's office says it has received no update.

"I don't see a legal way for Musk to lead DOGE in the way that it's been described and stay in compliance with the ethics rules," says Payne. If Musk were to follow the law, he would be a distant boss, unable to weigh in on the panoply of agencies investigating him, contracting with him, or regulating him, in addition to any other conflicts that are not currently public. Musk clearly has not taken that route.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/02/elon-musk-doge-special-government-employee/
Married A Horn
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"Please stop Elon Musk from finding all the fraud my heroes have been committing! Its very important that I dont have to face supporting the criminal team my entire life. Its going to be difficult for me to face people on the Baylor Forums."
Harrison Bergeron
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LOL.
KaiBear
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Married A Horn said:

"Please stop Elon Musk from finding all the fraud my heroes have been committing! Its very important that I dont have to face supporting the criminal team my entire life. Its going to be difficult for me to face people on the Baylor Forums."
+1
midgett
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Still trying to learn who was making decisions for Biden. We know he couldn't make half of the decisions allegedly made by him on his own. THAT was illegal and never seems to evoke curiosity by the leftist party and media and people like Sam.

Musk finds the information, shares it with Trump and is making decisions with implicit approval by Trump. If Trump doesn't like it, he can reverse the decision or fire Musk or both. What we do know is that the decisions are made based on findings from Musk.

Tell me again the people making decisions for Biden, i.e., all of us, and what constitutional authority they had.
sombear
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Married A Horn said:

"Please stop Elon Musk from finding all the fraud my heroes have been committing! Its very important that I dont have to face supporting the criminal team my entire life. Its going to be difficult for me to face people on the Baylor Forums."
Please list the fraud he has found so far.
Married A Horn
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No. You can go look for it yourself. Its everywhere but MSM.
sombear
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Married A Horn said:

No. You can go look for it yourself. Its everywhere but MSM.
I wasn't being a smart ass. I've seen all kinds of cuts that I support, but I haven't seen any actual fraud.
CorsicanaBear
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You can start with this.

Illigitimus non carborundum
KaiBear
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sombear said:

Married A Horn said:

No. You can go look for it yourself. Its everywhere but MSM.
I wasn't being a smart ass. I've seen all kinds of cuts that I support, but I haven't seen any actual fraud.




You must have a very narrow approach what constitutes fraud and a very wide attitude of vitally important foreign aid.
KaiBear
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CorsicanaBear said:

You can start with this.




Absolutely incredible.

This data is easy to find.

Bizarre how no one addressed this previously.
Robert Wilson
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KaiBear said:

CorsicanaBear said:

You can start with this.




Absolutely incredible.

This data is easy to find.

Bizarre how no one addressed this previously.
That, ultimately, is going to be the headline here. How and why did this go on for so long?
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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sombear said:

Married A Horn said:

No. You can go look for it yourself. Its everywhere but MSM.
I've seen all kinds of cuts that I support, but I haven't seen any actual fraud.
Joe Biden and the Dems have shown us you can have both and don't have to pick just one! It is possible to be incompetent and commit fraud all at the same time. 10 percent for the Big Guy!!!!
Bitcoin, $Trumpcoin, or $Fartcoin? That is the question.
Married A Horn
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They did address it. As soon as they found it they signed up for more.
sombear
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KaiBear said:

sombear said:

Married A Horn said:

No. You can go look for it yourself. Its everywhere but MSM.
I wasn't being a smart ass. I've seen all kinds of cuts that I support, but I haven't seen any actual fraud.




You must have a very narrow approach what constitutes fraud and a very wide attitude of vitally important foreign aid.
No. Fraud has an actual legal definition. Look, again, I support what Trump/Musk are doing. It's long overdue. I might take issue with certain aspects, and in a perfect world, I'd prefer instead of Musk, Trump could just find competent managers of all these agencies do the same thing. But I'm on board. And, yes, $ for transgender training and plays in Sri Lanka and $ for DEI programs in Africa need to stop immediately and are bizarre. But they are not fraud. I want to see people arrested. It has to be out there.
EatMoreSalmon
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sombear said:

KaiBear said:

sombear said:

Married A Horn said:

No. You can go look for it yourself. Its everywhere but MSM.
I wasn't being a smart ass. I've seen all kinds of cuts that I support, but I haven't seen any actual fraud.




You must have a very narrow approach what constitutes fraud and a very wide attitude of vitally important foreign aid.
No. Fraud has an actual legal definition. Look, again, I support what Trump/Musk are doing. It's long overdue. I might take issue with certain aspects, and in a perfect world, I'd prefer instead of Musk, Trump could just find competent managers of all these agencies do the same thing. But I'm on board. And, yes, $ for transgender training and plays in Sri Lanka and $ for DEI programs in Africa need to stop immediately and are bizarre. But they are not fraud. I want to see people arrested. It has to be out there.
The fact that there are no specific names linked to fraud at the moment also suggests that the data on individuals has not been the focus of DOGE.
historian
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historian
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historian
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historian
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EatMoreSalmon
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Just insert "and bureaucrats". I'm sure Twain would have agreed.
Married A Horn
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sombear said:

KaiBear said:

sombear said:

Married A Horn said:

No. You can go look for it yourself. Its everywhere but MSM.
I wasn't being a smart ass. I've seen all kinds of cuts that I support, but I haven't seen any actual fraud.




You must have a very narrow approach what constitutes fraud and a very wide attitude of vitally important foreign aid.
No. Fraud has an actual legal definition. Look, again, I support what Trump/Musk are doing. It's long overdue. I might take issue with certain aspects, and in a perfect world, I'd prefer instead of Musk, Trump could just find competent managers of all these agencies do the same thing. But I'm on board. And, yes, $ for transgender training and plays in Sri Lanka and $ for DEI programs in Africa need to stop immediately and are bizarre. But they are not fraud. I want to see people arrested. It has to be out there.


Oh okay. I see what you mean. You are going the legal type route. We are on stage 1. They are going out of their way to block the ability to folliw the money trail.

And, the way all these NGOs are set up, idk if you will find technical fraud.

But in the spirit of what fraud is - we already have mountains of evidence of it. I'm more concerned with that part and stopping it.
sombear
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Married A Horn said:

sombear said:

KaiBear said:

sombear said:

Married A Horn said:

No. You can go look for it yourself. Its everywhere but MSM.
I wasn't being a smart ass. I've seen all kinds of cuts that I support, but I haven't seen any actual fraud.




You must have a very narrow approach what constitutes fraud and a very wide attitude of vitally important foreign aid.
No. Fraud has an actual legal definition. Look, again, I support what Trump/Musk are doing. It's long overdue. I might take issue with certain aspects, and in a perfect world, I'd prefer instead of Musk, Trump could just find competent managers of all these agencies do the same thing. But I'm on board. And, yes, $ for transgender training and plays in Sri Lanka and $ for DEI programs in Africa need to stop immediately and are bizarre. But they are not fraud. I want to see people arrested. It has to be out there.


Oh okay. I see what you mean. You are going the legal type route. We are on stage 1. They are going out of their way to block the ability to folliw the money trail.

And, the way all these NGOs are set up, idk if you will find technical fraud.

But in the spirit of what fraud is - we already have mountains of evidence of it. I'm more concerned with that part and stopping it.
I should have been more clear in my initial response. Again, I was not being facetious. I want to stop it all - abuse, waste, overspend, fraud, whatever it is.
Robert Wilson
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There's just no way that the executive branch can actually run the executive branch! I mean, fascism, Nazis, patriarchy, late-stage capitalism, and throw in some climate change and misgendering.
canoso
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Sam Lowry said:

There's No Way Elon Musk's Job is Legal
"Checks and balances, at the moment, seem to be neutralized."
Pima Levy

"There's probably no person on the planet who has more varied business interests before the US government than Elon Musk," says Robert Weissman, co-president of Public Citizen, a consumer advocacy nonprofit, "and therefore, no person who would be more conflicted and less appropriate to have the role he has than Elon Musk."

Musk, as far as we know, doesn't even have a job title. It took two weeks for the administration to even confirm that he is employed, saying that he has been categorized as a special government employee. This is a category of federal employee, generally a consultant or expert, hired on a temporary basis. They typically have fewer ethical limitations and disclosure requirements than full government employees, but Musk is still subject to criminal laws regarding bribery and gratuities, as well as laws restricting gifts to superiors and from inferior employees.

"The way it's supposed to happen under normal circumstances is a special government employee would provide a list of all his financial interests to an ethics official within the agency, as well as the Office of Government Ethics, and then they could point out and also monitor any potential conflicts of interest," says Kedric Payne, an expert in government ethics at the nonprofit Campaign Legal Center. "Then you would also expect that special government employee to get pre-approval before there were any meetings or decisions that even gave the appearance that it may be a conflict of interest."

If that's the normal course of action, we are in the upside down. Not only does there appear to be no compliance mechanism in effect, but President Donald Trump has removed the ethics officials who could police Musk's work. Not only did Trump fire the head of the Office of Government Ethics, 17 inspectors general have been axes (plus another who later crossed Musk) along with the head of the Office of Special Counsel, which investigates whistleblower complaints. In their place, Trump press secretary Karoline Leavitt has said, Musk will police himself: "If Elon Musk comes across a conflict of interest with the contracts and the funding that DOGE is overseeing, that Elon will excuse himself from those contracts, and he has again abided by all applicable laws."

Last Monday, Sen. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) sent a letter to Susie Wiles, Trump's chief of staff, as well as the director of the Office of Government Ethics, asking whether and how Musk is complying with applicable criminal conflict of interest laws. The director of the ethics office was fired later that day. Schiff's office says it has received no update.

"I don't see a legal way for Musk to lead DOGE in the way that it's been described and stay in compliance with the ethics rules," says Payne. If Musk were to follow the law, he would be a distant boss, unable to weigh in on the panoply of agencies investigating him, contracting with him, or regulating him, in addition to any other conflicts that are not currently public. Musk clearly has not taken that route.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/02/elon-musk-doge-special-government-employee/
That's an awful lot of verbiage just to say "I don't know Jack Squat about the constitution."
4th and Inches
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Robert Wilson said:

KaiBear said:

CorsicanaBear said:

You can start with this.




Absolutely incredible.

This data is easy to find.

Bizarre how no one addressed this previously.
That, ultimately, is going to be the headline here. How and why did this go on for so long?
to be fair, some of that may be spousal benefits which could make a person be older and dead but still sending payment to spouse. I doubt anybody over 120 though..
“The Internet is just a world passing around notes in a classroom.”

Jon Stewart
Married A Horn
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sombear said:

Married A Horn said:

sombear said:

KaiBear said:

sombear said:

Married A Horn said:

No. You can go look for it yourself. Its everywhere but MSM.
I wasn't being a smart ass. I've seen all kinds of cuts that I support, but I haven't seen any actual fraud.




You must have a very narrow approach what constitutes fraud and a very wide attitude of vitally important foreign aid.
No. Fraud has an actual legal definition. Look, again, I support what Trump/Musk are doing. It's long overdue. I might take issue with certain aspects, and in a perfect world, I'd prefer instead of Musk, Trump could just find competent managers of all these agencies do the same thing. But I'm on board. And, yes, $ for transgender training and plays in Sri Lanka and $ for DEI programs in Africa need to stop immediately and are bizarre. But they are not fraud. I want to see people arrested. It has to be out there.


Oh okay. I see what you mean. You are going the legal type route. We are on stage 1. They are going out of their way to block the ability to folliw the money trail.

And, the way all these NGOs are set up, idk if you will find technical fraud.

But in the spirit of what fraud is - we already have mountains of evidence of it. I'm more concerned with that part and stopping it.
I should have been more clear in my initial response. Again, I was not being facetious. I want to stop it all - abuse, waste, overspend, fraud, whatever it is.


CorsicanaBear
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Illigitimus non carborundum
jbbear
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Sam Lowry said:

There's No Way Elon Musk's Job is Legal
"Checks and balances, at the moment, seem to be neutralized."
Pima Levy

"There's probably no person on the planet who has more varied business interests before the US government than Elon Musk," says Robert Weissman, co-president of Public Citizen, a consumer advocacy nonprofit, "and therefore, no person who would be more conflicted and less appropriate to have the role he has than Elon Musk."

Musk, as far as we know, doesn't even have a job title. It took two weeks for the administration to even confirm that he is employed, saying that he has been categorized as a special government employee. This is a category of federal employee, generally a consultant or expert, hired on a temporary basis. They typically have fewer ethical limitations and disclosure requirements than full government employees, but Musk is still subject to criminal laws regarding bribery and gratuities, as well as laws restricting gifts to superiors and from inferior employees.

"The way it's supposed to happen under normal circumstances is a special government employee would provide a list of all his financial interests to an ethics official within the agency, as well as the Office of Government Ethics, and then they could point out and also monitor any potential conflicts of interest," says Kedric Payne, an expert in government ethics at the nonprofit Campaign Legal Center. "Then you would also expect that special government employee to get pre-approval before there were any meetings or decisions that even gave the appearance that it may be a conflict of interest."

If that's the normal course of action, we are in the upside down. Not only does there appear to be no compliance mechanism in effect, but President Donald Trump has removed the ethics officials who could police Musk's work. Not only did Trump fire the head of the Office of Government Ethics, 17 inspectors general have been axes (plus another who later crossed Musk) along with the head of the Office of Special Counsel, which investigates whistleblower complaints. In their place, Trump press secretary Karoline Leavitt has said, Musk will police himself: "If Elon Musk comes across a conflict of interest with the contracts and the funding that DOGE is overseeing, that Elon will excuse himself from those contracts, and he has again abided by all applicable laws."

Last Monday, Sen. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) sent a letter to Susie Wiles, Trump's chief of staff, as well as the director of the Office of Government Ethics, asking whether and how Musk is complying with applicable criminal conflict of interest laws. The director of the ethics office was fired later that day. Schiff's office says it has received no update.

"I don't see a legal way for Musk to lead DOGE in the way that it's been described and stay in compliance with the ethics rules," says Payne. If Musk were to follow the law, he would be a distant boss, unable to weigh in on the panoply of agencies investigating him, contracting with him, or regulating him, in addition to any other conflicts that are not currently public. Musk clearly has not taken that route.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/02/elon-musk-doge-special-government-employee/
Anyone who quotes Adam Schiff has ZERO credibility.
Harrison Bergeron
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I'm concerned with smart people continually falling for Democrat disinformation. We saw it with the Russia Hoax, we saw it with Hunter's laptop, we saw it with covid, we saw it with January 6. How many times will they lie to you before you start to think maybe they're lying?
Oldbear83
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Cry more, Sam.

It's delightful to see you freak out over criminals being exposed.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Wangchung
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Harrison Bergeron said:

I'm concerned with smart people continually falling for Democrat disinformation. We saw it with the Russia Hoax, we saw it with Hunter's laptop, we saw it with covid, we saw it with January 6. How many times will they lie to you before you start to think maybe they're lying?
Bird flu is the latest hoax.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?

Sam Lowry
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Oldbear83 said:

Cry more, Sam.

It's delightful to see you freak out over criminals being exposed.
Don't mind me, I'm glad Mother Jones exposed them. I do see a lot of freaking out though...you're not wrong about that.
Doc Holliday
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sombear said:

Married A Horn said:

No. You can go look for it yourself. It's everywhere but MSM.
I wasn't being a smart ass. I've seen all kinds of cuts that I support, but I haven't seen any actual fraud.
I'd argue that they've already found fraud.

DOGE had found $2.7 trillion in Medicare and Medicaid fraud, and a missing $4.7 trillion in treasury payments
Oldbear83
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Sam Lowry said:

Oldbear83 said:

Cry more, Sam.

It's delightful to see you freak out over criminals being exposed.
Don't mind me, I'm glad Mother Jones exposed them. I do see a lot of freaking out though...you're not wrong about that.
Cry more, you're hilarious, even when you pretend you're being an adult now.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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