Mitch Blood Green said:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGoxNaaSgAc/?igsh=MXV5Y3Vva2VkZGd0aw==
Mrs. Lindsay said no American have died in Ukraine…he was lying
Europe, your turn
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Last: 27 min ago by TinFoilHatPreacherBear
Mrs. Lindsay said no American have died in Ukraine…he was lying
Good take.Mothra said:Agree with this. I thought Vance came off looking like a boot-licker, and quite frankly, it significantly diminished his prospects of ever becoming president in my eyes.Porteroso said:
I'm pretty disappointed with Vance. From the transcript, Vance basically stepped in and tried to power play Zelensky. Just dumb, and of course Trump wants to be worshipped, not told that if Russia keeps invading, the US will "feel influenced." Trump responds with "We are going to feel very good and very strong." and it just devolves from there.
You know what though, let me post the transcript. You guys just read it for yourself. I think it's embarrassing. This isn't the time to hold Zelensky to account, it's the time to end the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It's ok if Zelensky says a few words, he's about to hand over 50% of Ukraine's rare earths to the United States.
I don't think this is the full transcript, but sections, from the AP.Quote:
Vance: "For four years, the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is, maybe, engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States' words mattered more than the president of the United States' actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That's what President Trump is doing."
Zelenskyy: "Can I ask you?"
Vance: "Sure. Yeah."
Zelenskyy: "OK. So he (Putin) occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years I'm not speaking about just Biden, but those times was (Barack) Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump. And God bless, now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the --"
Trump: "2015?"
Zelenskyy: "2014."
Trump: "Oh, 2014? I was not here."
Vance: "That's exactly right."
Zelenskyy: "Yes, but during 2014 'til 2022, the situation is the same, that people have been dying on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, my bilateral conversation. And we signed with him, me, like, you, president, in 2019, I signed with him the deal. I signed with him, (French President Emmanuel) Macron and (former German Chancellor Angela) Merkel. We signed ceasefire. Ceasefire. All of them told me that he will never go … But after that, he broke the ceasefire, he killed our people, and he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners. But he didn't do it. What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about? What do you mean?"
Vance: "I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country. Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict."
Zelenskyy: "Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?"
Vance: "I have been to "
Zelenskyy: "Come once."
Vance: "I've actually watched and seen the stories, and I know that what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President. Do you disagree that you've had problems, bringing people into your military?"
Zelenskyy: "We have problems "
Vance: "And do you think that is respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?"
Zelenskyy: "A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning."
Vance: "Sure."
Zelenskyy: "First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don't feel now. But you will feel it in the future. God bless "
Trump: "You don't know that. You don't know that. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel."
Zelenskyy: "I'm not telling you. I am answering on these questions."
Trump: "Because you're in no position to dictate that."
Vance: "That's exactly what you're doing."
Trump: "You are in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. We're going to feel very good."
Zelenskyy: "You will feel influenced."
Trump: "We are going to feel very good and very strong."
Zelenskyy: "I am telling you. You will feel influenced."
Trump: "You're, right now, not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position "
Zelenskyy: "From the very beginning of the war "
Trump: "You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards."
Zelenskyy: "I'm not playing cards. I'm very serious, Mr. President. I'm very serious."
Trump: "You're playing cards. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III."
Zelenskyy: "What are you speaking about?"
Trump: "You're gambling with World War III. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country that's backed you far more than a lot of people said they should have."
Vance: "Have you said thank you once?"
Zelenskyy: "A lot of times. Even today."
Vance: "No, in this entire meeting. You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October."
Zelenskyy: "No."
Vance: "Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country."
Zelenskyy: "Please. You think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you can "
Trump: "He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble."
Zelenskyy: "Can I answer "
Trump: "No, no. You've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble."
Zelenskyy: "I know. I know."
Trump: "You're not winning. You're not winning this. You have a damn good chance of coming out OK because of us."
Zelenskyy: "Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong. From the very beginning of the war, we've been alone. And we are thankful. I said thanks."
Trump: "If you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks."
Zelenskyy: "In three days. I heard it from Putin. In three days."
Trump: "Maybe less. It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, I tell you.
Vance: "Just say thank you."
Zelenskyy: "I said a lot of times, thank you, to American people."
Vance: "Accept that there are disagreements, and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when you're wrong. We know that you're wrong."
Trump: "But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on. I think it's very important. That's why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful."
Zelenskyy: "I'm thankful."
Trump: "You don't have the cards. You're buried there. People are dying. You're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing, and then you tell us, 'I don't want a ceasefire. I don't want a ceasefire, I want to go, and I want this.' Look, if you can get a ceasefire right now, I tell you, you take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed."
Zelenskyy: "Of course we want to stop the war. But I said to you, with guarantees."
Trump: "Are you saying you don't want a ceasefire? I want a ceasefire. Because you'll get a ceasefire faster than an agreement."
Zelenskyy: "Ask our people about a ceasefire, what they think."
Trump: "That wasn't with me. That was with a guy named Biden, who is not a smart person."
Zelenskyy: "This is your president. It was your president."
Trump: "Excuse me. That was with Obama, who gave you sheets, and I gave you Javelins. I gave you the Javelins to take out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets. In fact, the statement is Obama gave sheets, and Trump gave Javelins. You've got to be more thankful because let me tell you, you don't have the cards. With us, you have the cards, but without us, you don't have any cards."
Do I think Zelensky was right to have this debate in front of the press? No. Do I think we have to engage in diplomacy instead of pouring billions into what is going to be a losing effort? Yes. Do I think this war ends with concessions on the part of Ukraine in terms of territory? Yes. But Vance calling him out as disrespectful was ridiculous, and made him look small, not the other way around.
If you are going to pride yourself on the ability to debate, as Vance does, then have the balls to debate. Don't call out your opponent's behavior as disrespectful. Engage with him on the subject matters. Refute his words.
Made Vance look like a big fat p_ssy.
And of course, Trump was his typical self, which is good at times, and bad, as here. I think it's a bad look to hold a country over a barrel and demand they enter into a business transaction with you when the alternative is destruction. Made him look like an enormous bully.
Indeed, it was embarrassing.
Vance is not even remotely ready to be president.
And will not get the Republican nomination in 2028.
That said he did his job in regards to Z.
Let France and Great Britain finally carry the load in Europe.
Past time for them to pay for their own defense.
And will not get the Republican nomination in 2028.
That said he did his job in regards to Z.
Let France and Great Britain finally carry the load in Europe.
Past time for them to pay for their own defense.
Redbrickbear said:Mitch Blood Green said:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGoxNaaSgAc/?igsh=MXV5Y3Vva2VkZGd0aw==
Mrs. Lindsay said no American have died in Ukraine…he was lying
Ms. Lindsey.
People choosing to go die for a Ukranian oligarch. Crazy.Mitch Blood Green said:Redbrickbear said:Mitch Blood Green said:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGoxNaaSgAc/?igsh=MXV5Y3Vva2VkZGd0aw==
Mrs. Lindsay said no American have died in Ukraine…he was lying
Ms. Lindsey.
Most think they're going to fight for "Democracy". But a corrupt democracy isn't worth fighting for, it's liberty that is worth fighting for. If you believe Western Europe promotes liberty, then great on them for going to fight. But I certainly don't. They're moving closer and closer to dystopian tyranny. And socialism has made it where everyone votes to stay on the government teet.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
The media is making a big deal over the UK promising 2bn for air defence missiles. Which is coming out of their confiscated Russia funds. Love it.
And the UK/Europe are saying they want to take a crack at developing a plan for peace with Ukraine, then run it by the United States, and they have the go-ahead from Trump to do so. I'm surprised, and don't have much hope that Europe can get anything done, but they have the most skin in the game, so this is at least the right thing for them to do. I think talks will simply fall apart, and they'll come back to the US saying "plz help we can't do nothing."
And the UK/Europe are saying they want to take a crack at developing a plan for peace with Ukraine, then run it by the United States, and they have the go-ahead from Trump to do so. I'm surprised, and don't have much hope that Europe can get anything done, but they have the most skin in the game, so this is at least the right thing for them to do. I think talks will simply fall apart, and they'll come back to the US saying "plz help we can't do nothing."
Porteroso said:
The media is making a big deal over the UK promising 2bn for air defence missiles. Which is coming out of their confiscated Russia funds. Love it.
And the UK/Europe are saying they want to take a crack at developing a plan for peace with Ukraine, then run it by the United States, and they have the go-ahead from Trump to do so. I'm surprised, and don't have much hope that Europe can get anything done, but they have the most skin in the game, so this is at least the right thing for them to do. I think talks will simply fall apart, and they'll come back to the US saying "plz help we can't do nothing."
Zelenskyy Says He’s Ready to Sign US-Ukraine Mineral Deal
— Simon Ateba (@simonateba) March 3, 2025
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy told the BBC yesterday, Sunday, he is willing to sign the mineral deal with the U.S. after leaving the White House without doing so, following tensions with President Trump. He said… pic.twitter.com/EqdXESl9ra
Hope Trump now ups the ante on Z.
****ing midget needs to be 'suicided'.
****ing midget needs to be 'suicided'.
LIB,MR BEARS said:Porteroso said:
The media is making a big deal over the UK promising 2bn for air defence missiles. Which is coming out of their confiscated Russia funds. Love it.
And the UK/Europe are saying they want to take a crack at developing a plan for peace with Ukraine, then run it by the United States, and they have the go-ahead from Trump to do so. I'm surprised, and don't have much hope that Europe can get anything done, but they have the most skin in the game, so this is at least the right thing for them to do. I think talks will simply fall apart, and they'll come back to the US saying "plz help we can't do nothing."Zelenskyy Says He’s Ready to Sign US-Ukraine Mineral Deal
— Simon Ateba (@simonateba) March 3, 2025
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy told the BBC yesterday, Sunday, he is willing to sign the mineral deal with the U.S. after leaving the White House without doing so, following tensions with President Trump. He said… pic.twitter.com/EqdXESl9ra
We'll see. After the feigned support love fest from European leaders, effectively making US the bad guys, maybe we should just stay out of it entirely for awhile longer, let the entitled Europeans fin for themselves.
So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
We did not exactly "get involved" until the situation was dire.
The first move for the US should be to up the ante on the EU. Their lack of support for the hand that has fed them for the last 75 years shouldn't go without some form of payment.TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Porteroso said:
The media is making a big deal over the UK promising 2bn for air defence missiles. Which is coming out of their confiscated Russia funds. Love it.
And the UK/Europe are saying they want to take a crack at developing a plan for peace with Ukraine, then run it by the United States, and they have the go-ahead from Trump to do so. I'm surprised, and don't have much hope that Europe can get anything done, but they have the most skin in the game, so this is at least the right thing for them to do. I think talks will simply fall apart, and they'll come back to the US saying "plz help we can't do nothing."Zelenskyy Says He’s Ready to Sign US-Ukraine Mineral Deal
— Simon Ateba (@simonateba) March 3, 2025
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy told the BBC yesterday, Sunday, he is willing to sign the mineral deal with the U.S. after leaving the White House without doing so, following tensions with President Trump. He said… pic.twitter.com/EqdXESl9ra
We'll see. After the feigned support love fest from European leaders, effectively making US the bad guys, maybe we should just stay out of it entirely for awhile longer, let the entitled Europeans fin for themselves.
Put a little bit of a squeeze on them to remind them of who they are dealing with.
Then up the security details on Trump, Vance, Rubio and Musk. I'm sure the EU would love to deal with swamp-monsters.
Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
With all due respect, Nazi and Japanese domination of the Asian continent would have been catastrophic economically and geopolitically for the US.
Those two industrially advanced nations would have outpaced North America in innovation and eventually military power with access to all those resources. South America would not have necessarily joined up with North America for the long haul.
There are lots of arguments for ending the war in Ukraine now, but this isn't one of them.
LIB,MR BEARS said:The first move for the US should be to up the ante on the EU. Their lack of support for the hand that has fed them for the last 75 years shouldn't go without some form of payment.TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Porteroso said:
The media is making a big deal over the UK promising 2bn for air defence missiles. Which is coming out of their confiscated Russia funds. Love it.
And the UK/Europe are saying they want to take a crack at developing a plan for peace with Ukraine, then run it by the United States, and they have the go-ahead from Trump to do so. I'm surprised, and don't have much hope that Europe can get anything done, but they have the most skin in the game, so this is at least the right thing for them to do. I think talks will simply fall apart, and they'll come back to the US saying "plz help we can't do nothing."Zelenskyy Says He’s Ready to Sign US-Ukraine Mineral Deal
— Simon Ateba (@simonateba) March 3, 2025
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy told the BBC yesterday, Sunday, he is willing to sign the mineral deal with the U.S. after leaving the White House without doing so, following tensions with President Trump. He said… pic.twitter.com/EqdXESl9ra
We'll see. After the feigned support love fest from European leaders, effectively making US the bad guys, maybe we should just stay out of it entirely for awhile longer, let the entitled Europeans fin for themselves.
Put a little bit of a squeeze on them to remind them of who they are dealing with.
Then up the security details on Trump, Vance, Rubio and Musk. I'm sure the EU would love to deal with swamp-monsters.
To sweeten the pot Trump should ask that Oleksandr Dubinski and his family be sent to the US.
Ukraine is in a lot of trouble with friends like this.
Quote:
The European Union (EU) spent $23 billion on Russian oil and gas in the third year of the war on Ukraine, more than the $19.6 billion in financial aid it offered to the war-ravaged nation last year, according to the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/european-union-spent-more-russian-fossil-fuels-than-ukraine-aid-2024
EatMoreSalmon said:KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
In
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
With all due respect, Nazi and Japanese domination of the Asian continent would have been catastrophic economically and geopolitically for the US.
Those two industrially advanced nations would have outpaced North America in innovation and eventually military power with access to all those resources. South America would not have necessarily joined up with North America for the long haul.
There are lots of arguments for ending the war in Ukraine now, but this isn't one of them.
It's all just historical hypotheticals for fun
But I think the USA outpaces both
Nazi Germany was socialist…meaning it would have been closer to the USSR in development than the USA
Japan with Asian resources would have been formidable but would have also had to deal with post WWII independence movements and endless guerrilla wars constantly breaking out in its empire…especially China with its long history of Han nationalism.
The USA merging economically (if not politically) with the leftovers of the British Empire would have continued to outpace them all…and would have had terrify nuclear arsenal and powerful Western Hemisphere military
The USA for instance would still have gotten to the moon first
And we probably would have never chosen to de-industrialize in the face of a Japanese empire in the Pacific and Nazi empire in Europe
By the 1990s both might have broken up anyway similar to the USSR (if possibly a more bloody collapse)
Redbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
In
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
With all due respect, Nazi and Japanese domination of the Asian continent would have been catastrophic economically and geopolitically for the US.
Those two industrially advanced nations would have outpaced North America in innovation and eventually military power with access to all those resources. South America would not have necessarily joined up with North America for the long haul.
There are lots of arguments for ending the war in Ukraine now, but this isn't one of them.
It's all just historical hypotheticals for fun
But I think the USA outpaces both
Nazi Germany was socialist…meaning it would have been closer to the USSR in development than the USA
Japan with Asian resources would have been formidable but would have also had to deal with post WWII independence movements and endless guerrilla wars constantly breaking out in its empire…especially China with its long history of Han nationalism.
The USA merging economically (if not politically) with the leftovers of the British Empire would have continued to outpace them all…and would have had terrify nuclear arsenal and powerful Western Hemisphere military
The USA for instance would still have gotten to the moon first
And we probably would have never chosen to de-industrialize in the face of a Japanese empire in the Pacific and Nazi empire in Europe
By the 1990s both might have broken up anyway similar to the USSR (if possibly a more bloody collapse)
We would have beat the Nazis to the moon? No. Absolute hysterical rambling to think an isolated USA could stand against the entire world under Japanese/Nazi rule.
Japan would have not had to conquer all of China, nor would it have had to conquer all of India. It would have used its patsies in India to separate from Great Britain and favor Japan in relations and resources. The US would not have been able to secure Indian favor by staying out of the war. Australia could have possibly survived, but not likely without US help. The US would have had to hand over the Philippines to Japan (or practically so) to avoid war anyway.Redbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
In
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
With all due respect, Nazi and Japanese domination of the Asian continent would have been catastrophic economically and geopolitically for the US.
Those two industrially advanced nations would have outpaced North America in innovation and eventually military power with access to all those resources. South America would not have necessarily joined up with North America for the long haul.
There are lots of arguments for ending the war in Ukraine now, but this isn't one of them.
It's all just historical hypotheticals for fun
But I think the USA outpaces both
Nazi Germany was socialist…meaning it would have been closer to the USSR in development than the USA
Japan with Asian resources would have been formidable but would have also had to deal with post WWII independence movements and endless guerrilla wars constantly breaking out in its empire…especially China with its long history of Han nationalism.
The USA merging economically (if not politically) with the leftovers of the British Empire would have continued to outpace them all…and would have had terrify nuclear arsenal and powerful Western Hemisphere military
The USA for instance would still have gotten to the moon first
And we probably would have never chosen to de-industrialize in the face of a Japanese empire in the Pacific and Nazi empire in Europe
By the 1990s both might have broken up anyway similar to the USSR (if possibly a more bloody collapse)
As for the space race, this man says the US would not have been first to the moon...
Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun
EatMoreSalmon said:Japan would have not had to conquer all of China, nor would it have had to conquer all of India. It would have used its patsies in India to separate from Great Britain and favor Japan in relations and resources. The US would not have been able to secure Indian favor by staying out of the war. Australia could have possibly survived, but not likely without US help. The US would have had to hand over the Philippines to Japan (or practically so) to avoid war anyway.Redbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
In
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
With all due respect, Nazi and Japanese domination of the Asian continent would have been catastrophic economically and geopolitically for the US.
Those two industrially advanced nations would have outpaced North America in innovation and eventually military power with access to all those resources. South America would not have necessarily joined up with North America for the long haul.
There are lots of arguments for ending the war in Ukraine now, but this isn't one of them.
It's all just historical hypotheticals for fun
But I think the USA outpaces both
Nazi Germany was socialist…meaning it would have been closer to the USSR in development than the USA
Japan with Asian resources would have been formidable but would have also had to deal with post WWII independence movements and endless guerrilla wars constantly breaking out in its empire…especially China with its long history of Han nationalism.
The USA merging economically (if not politically) with the leftovers of the British Empire would have continued to outpace them all…and would have had terrify nuclear arsenal and powerful Western Hemisphere military
The USA for instance would still have gotten to the moon first
And we probably would have never chosen to de-industrialize in the face of a Japanese empire in the Pacific and Nazi empire in Europe
By the 1990s both might have broken up anyway similar to the USSR (if possibly a more bloody collapse)
As for the space race, this man says the US would not have been first to the moon...
Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun
He would have been working for a top down socialist state with ideological thought & political police….trying to hold down millions of Slavs as slaves in the East of Europe…and nationalist movements central and Western Europe
Instead of working for a capitalist hyper competitive & super industrious USA with free thought and free inquiry….especially the sciences
A Cold War between the USA vs the Axis might have been harder than against the USSR….but I am not sure it ends up much differently
Porteroso said:Redbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
In
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
With all due respect, Nazi and Japanese domination of the Asian continent would have been catastrophic economically and geopolitically for the US.
Those two industrially advanced nations would have outpaced North America in innovation and eventually military power with access to all those resources. South America would not have necessarily joined up with North America for the long haul.
There are lots of arguments for ending the war in Ukraine now, but this isn't one of them.
It's all just historical hypotheticals for fun
But I think the USA outpaces both
Nazi Germany was socialist…meaning it would have been closer to the USSR in development than the USA
Japan with Asian resources would have been formidable but would have also had to deal with post WWII independence movements and endless guerrilla wars constantly breaking out in its empire…especially China with its long history of Han nationalism.
The USA merging economically (if not politically) with the leftovers of the British Empire would have continued to outpace them all…and would have had terrify nuclear arsenal and powerful Western Hemisphere military
The USA for instance would still have gotten to the moon first
And we probably would have never chosen to de-industrialize in the face of a Japanese empire in the Pacific and Nazi empire in Europe
By the 1990s both might have broken up anyway similar to the USSR (if possibly a more bloody collapse)
We would have beat the Nazis to the moon? No. Absolute hysterical rambling to think an isolated USA could stand against the entire world under Japanese/Nazi rule.
Who says the Nazis would have even tried for the moon…much less gotten there
And the USA would not have been isolated…it would have had the entire Western Hemisphere at the very least under its control and in its trade and alliance network….probably a good portion of the British Empire as well
Instead of two player Cold War it would have much more likely been a 3 player Cold War…
Much of South America would have been in play, not assuredly under US control/influence.Redbrickbear said:Porteroso said:Redbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
In
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
With all due respect, Nazi and Japanese domination of the Asian continent would have been catastrophic economically and geopolitically for the US.
Those two industrially advanced nations would have outpaced North America in innovation and eventually military power with access to all those resources. South America would not have necessarily joined up with North America for the long haul.
There are lots of arguments for ending the war in Ukraine now, but this isn't one of them.
It's all just historical hypotheticals for fun
But I think the USA outpaces both
Nazi Germany was socialist…meaning it would have been closer to the USSR in development than the USA
Japan with Asian resources would have been formidable but would have also had to deal with post WWII independence movements and endless guerrilla wars constantly breaking out in its empire…especially China with its long history of Han nationalism.
The USA merging economically (if not politically) with the leftovers of the British Empire would have continued to outpace them all…and would have had terrify nuclear arsenal and powerful Western Hemisphere military
The USA for instance would still have gotten to the moon first
And we probably would have never chosen to de-industrialize in the face of a Japanese empire in the Pacific and Nazi empire in Europe
By the 1990s both might have broken up anyway similar to the USSR (if possibly a more bloody collapse)
We would have beat the Nazis to the moon? No. Absolute hysterical rambling to think an isolated USA could stand against the entire world under Japanese/Nazi rule.
Who says the Nazis would have even tied for the moon…much less gotten there
And the USA would not have been isolated…it would have had the entire Western Hemisphere at the very least under its control and in its trade and alliance network….probably a good portion of the British Empire as well
Instead of two player Cold War it would have much more likely been a 3 player Cold War…
TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:
Europe, you've relied on the US to save the Ukraine. Let's see how you all work together for the Ukraine to WIN.
Winning is all the progressives will talk about, right?
Russia isn't going anywhere. They're keeping what they got for the most part.
We'll see how this plays out.
Meanwhile in Europe:
Porteroso said:Redbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
In
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
With all due respect, Nazi and Japanese domination of the Asian continent would have been catastrophic economically and geopolitically for the US.
Those two industrially advanced nations would have outpaced North America in innovation and eventually military power with access to all those resources. South America would not have necessarily joined up with North America for the long haul.
There are lots of arguments for ending the war in Ukraine now, but this isn't one of them.
It's all just historical hypotheticals for fun
But I think the USA outpaces both
Nazi Germany was socialist…meaning it would have been closer to the USSR in development than the USA
Japan with Asian resources would have been formidable but would have also had to deal with post WWII independence movements and endless guerrilla wars constantly breaking out in its empire…especially China with its long history of Han nationalism.
The USA merging economically (if not politically) with the leftovers of the British Empire would have continued to outpace them all…and would have had terrify nuclear arsenal and powerful Western Hemisphere military
The USA for instance would still have gotten to the moon first
And we probably would have never chosen to de-industrialize in the face of a Japanese empire in the Pacific and Nazi empire in Europe
By the 1990s both might have broken up anyway similar to the USSR (if possibly a more bloody collapse)
We would have beat the Nazis to the moon? No. Absolute hysterical rambling to think an isolated USA could stand against the entire world under Japanese/Nazi rule.
Your comments are so routinely goofy I can't decide if you are serious here, or attempting sarcasm.
The talent, training and history would have given the Germans a continuing lead in rockets and missiles - particularly ICBMs - for at least 20 years. Without German scientists, both the US and Soviet Union would have taken longer (years) to get effective missile systems. German engineering was high quality during the war. Soviet engineering was ok, but needed a lot of help from effective spying and copying to keep up. Soviet system was definitely the weaker of the two totalitarian regimes. Soviets are darn lucky they did not have to fight a two front war or deal that much with a navy. Had Japan attacked in the east, the Soviet Union would have fallen due to lesser manpower and material in the west against the better trained German army.Redbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:Japan would have not had to conquer all of China, nor would it have had to conquer all of India. It would have used its patsies in India to separate from Great Britain and favor Japan in relations and resources. The US would not have been able to secure Indian favor by staying out of the war. Australia could have possibly survived, but not likely without US help. The US would have had to hand over the Philippines to Japan (or practically so) to avoid war anyway.Redbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
In
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
With all due respect, Nazi and Japanese domination of the Asian continent would have been catastrophic economically and geopolitically for the US.
Those two industrially advanced nations would have outpaced North America in innovation and eventually military power with access to all those resources. South America would not have necessarily joined up with North America for the long haul.
There are lots of arguments for ending the war in Ukraine now, but this isn't one of them.
It's all just historical hypotheticals for fun
But I think the USA outpaces both
Nazi Germany was socialist…meaning it would have been closer to the USSR in development than the USA
Japan with Asian resources would have been formidable but would have also had to deal with post WWII independence movements and endless guerrilla wars constantly breaking out in its empire…especially China with its long history of Han nationalism.
The USA merging economically (if not politically) with the leftovers of the British Empire would have continued to outpace them all…and would have had terrify nuclear arsenal and powerful Western Hemisphere military
The USA for instance would still have gotten to the moon first
And we probably would have never chosen to de-industrialize in the face of a Japanese empire in the Pacific and Nazi empire in Europe
By the 1990s both might have broken up anyway similar to the USSR (if possibly a more bloody collapse)
As for the space race, this man says the US would not have been first to the moon...
Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun
He would have been working for a top down socialist state with ideological thought & political police….trying to hold down millions of Slavs as slaves in the East of Europe…and nationalist movements central and Western Europe
Instead of working for a capitalist hyper competitive & super industrious USA with free thought and free inquiry….especially the sciences
A Cold War between the USA vs the Axis might have been harder than against the USSR….but I am not sure it ends up much differently
The Nazis were much more efficient than the Soviets. The problem with them was Hitler's overconfidence after France fell. He should not have attacked the Soviet Union with Britain still hanging around. Declaring war on the US was a terrible overreach and blunder.
One aspect to WW2 that people forget is manufacturing.
Just saying.
Just saying.
Oldbear83 said:
One aspect to WW2 that people forget is manufacturing.
Just saying.
A big reason the allies won both world wars is that the US was the largest economy in the world and that was largely based on manufacturing. By 1945, our economy was almost as great as the rest of the world because our factories were undamaged by the war while the other major industrial economies had their factories decimated by air raids: Germany, Japan, the UK, etc.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
EatMoreSalmon said:Much of South America would have been in play, not assuredly under US control/influence.Redbrickbear said:Porteroso said:Redbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
In
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
With all due respect, Nazi and Japanese domination of the Asian continent would have been catastrophic economically and geopolitically for the US.
Those two industrially advanced nations would have outpaced North America in innovation and eventually military power with access to all those resources. South America would not have necessarily joined up with North America for the long haul.
There are lots of arguments for ending the war in Ukraine now, but this isn't one of them.
It's all just historical hypotheticals for fun
But I think the USA outpaces both
Nazi Germany was socialist…meaning it would have been closer to the USSR in development than the USA
Japan with Asian resources would have been formidable but would have also had to deal with post WWII independence movements and endless guerrilla wars constantly breaking out in its empire…especially China with its long history of Han nationalism.
The USA merging economically (if not politically) with the leftovers of the British Empire would have continued to outpace them all…and would have had terrify nuclear arsenal and powerful Western Hemisphere military
The USA for instance would still have gotten to the moon first
And we probably would have never chosen to de-industrialize in the face of a Japanese empire in the Pacific and Nazi empire in Europe
By the 1990s both might have broken up anyway similar to the USSR (if possibly a more bloody collapse)
We would have beat the Nazis to the moon? No. Absolute hysterical rambling to think an isolated USA could stand against the entire world under Japanese/Nazi rule.
Who says the Nazis would have even tied for the moon…much less gotten there
And the USA would not have been isolated…it would have had the entire Western Hemisphere at the very least under its control and in its trade and alliance network….probably a good portion of the British Empire as well
Instead of two player Cold War it would have much more likely been a 3 player Cold War…
Maybe
Though hard to see why they would ally with the Totalitarian Nazi Empire in Europe or the imperial Japanese empire in Asia
They would have more natural common ground with the USA (and a closer easier trade relation)
Argentina, Chile, Bolivia, VenezuelaRedbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:Much of South America would have been in play, not assuredly under US control/influence.Redbrickbear said:Porteroso said:Redbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
In
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
With all due respect, Nazi and Japanese domination of the Asian continent would have been catastrophic economically and geopolitically for the US.
Those two industrially advanced nations would have outpaced North America in innovation and eventually military power with access to all those resources. South America would not have necessarily joined up with North America for the long haul.
There are lots of arguments for ending the war in Ukraine now, but this isn't one of them.
It's all just historical hypotheticals for fun
But I think the USA outpaces both
Nazi Germany was socialist…meaning it would have been closer to the USSR in development than the USA
Japan with Asian resources would have been formidable but would have also had to deal with post WWII independence movements and endless guerrilla wars constantly breaking out in its empire…especially China with its long history of Han nationalism.
The USA merging economically (if not politically) with the leftovers of the British Empire would have continued to outpace them all…and would have had terrify nuclear arsenal and powerful Western Hemisphere military
The USA for instance would still have gotten to the moon first
And we probably would have never chosen to de-industrialize in the face of a Japanese empire in the Pacific and Nazi empire in Europe
By the 1990s both might have broken up anyway similar to the USSR (if possibly a more bloody collapse)
We would have beat the Nazis to the moon? No. Absolute hysterical rambling to think an isolated USA could stand against the entire world under Japanese/Nazi rule.
Who says the Nazis would have even tied for the moon…much less gotten there
And the USA would not have been isolated…it would have had the entire Western Hemisphere at the very least under its control and in its trade and alliance network….probably a good portion of the British Empire as well
Instead of two player Cold War it would have much more likely been a 3 player Cold War…
Maybe
Though hard to see why they would ally with the Totalitarian Nazi Empire in Europe or the imperial Japanese empire in Asia
They would have more natural common ground with the USA (and a closer easier trade relation)
EatMoreSalmon said:Argentina, Chile, Bolivia, VenezuelaRedbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:Much of South America would have been in play, not assuredly under US control/influence.Redbrickbear said:Porteroso said:Redbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
In
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
With all due respect, Nazi and Japanese domination of the Asian continent would have been catastrophic economically and geopolitically for the US.
Those two industrially advanced nations would have outpaced North America in innovation and eventually military power with access to all those resources. South America would not have necessarily joined up with North America for the long haul.
There are lots of arguments for ending the war in Ukraine now, but this isn't one of them.
It's all just historical hypotheticals for fun
But I think the USA outpaces both
Nazi Germany was socialist…meaning it would have been closer to the USSR in development than the USA
Japan with Asian resources would have been formidable but would have also had to deal with post WWII independence movements and endless guerrilla wars constantly breaking out in its empire…especially China with its long history of Han nationalism.
The USA merging economically (if not politically) with the leftovers of the British Empire would have continued to outpace them all…and would have had terrify nuclear arsenal and powerful Western Hemisphere military
The USA for instance would still have gotten to the moon first
And we probably would have never chosen to de-industrialize in the face of a Japanese empire in the Pacific and Nazi empire in Europe
By the 1990s both might have broken up anyway similar to the USSR (if possibly a more bloody collapse)
We would have beat the Nazis to the moon? No. Absolute hysterical rambling to think an isolated USA could stand against the entire world under Japanese/Nazi rule.
Who says the Nazis would have even tied for the moon…much less gotten there
And the USA would not have been isolated…it would have had the entire Western Hemisphere at the very least under its control and in its trade and alliance network….probably a good portion of the British Empire as well
Instead of two player Cold War it would have much more likely been a 3 player Cold War…
Maybe
Though hard to see why they would ally with the Totalitarian Nazi Empire in Europe or the imperial Japanese empire in Asia
They would have more natural common ground with the USA (and a closer easier trade relation)
I don't get it
In a hypnotically different post WWII world you don't think they ally with us….but instead Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany?
After WWII, Nazis who managed to escape the allies and prosecution for war crimes fled to what countries in South America? Examples include Mengele, Borman, & Eichman.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
Not only that we had to have their scientists to even go to the moon (if we really even did go there). Nasa was all Nazi scientists.Porteroso said:Redbrickbear said:EatMoreSalmon said:KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:Seriously... no offense.KaiBear said:Knight Bear said:So, I guess we were wrong to step in and take down Hitler and Mussolini (or get involved in WW1)? If we aren't willing to do so again now (not saying Ukraine is the "now"), then the next dictator/lunatic (Putin???) will eventually have us all speaking another language (Russian? Chinese?) or worse.KaiBear said:More childish platitudes.Porteroso said:The American people have voted to spread freedom and democracy all over the world for a long, long time. We want to be in NATO. And we cannot be isolationist in this world. We already took sides in this war, we supported Ukraine like we promised. We have to see this through. We don't have to invade Russia, we just have to stop the killing, and make sure Russia doesn't go right back to it in 3 years.KaiBear said:Porteroso said:Either walk away, or give guarantees. I'm saying we cannot demand the rare earths without guarantees.KaiBear said:Absolute ****ing bull*****Porteroso said:
At the core of it, it is in our best interest to give Ukraine guarantees.
There is not ONE member of this board who is willing to enlist and fight for Ukraine.
The American people are not even remotely willing to be drafted and fight for Ukraine.
It has NEVER been in the strategic intersts of the US to guarantee Ukranian security.
Take a step back and just imagine the reaction if Trump or any other US prisedent went to war over Ukraine and as a result re esteblished the draft.
Good grief it would be a nightmare.
And of course Zelensky will want guarantees. And we don't even have to put Americans in harm's way. Germany and France have a much deeper interest in no more war, and both are thinking of actually joining the fight. But... America "promised" to defend Ukraine from invasion, all those years ago... our word isn't going to be good enough this time.
' We don't even have to put Americans in harm's way'
So naive.
You just live in a fantasy world. Reality has no place in your bubble.
The AMERICAN PEOPLE are not willing to guarantee Ukranian security.
Period
Neither France nor England will go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
And for the exact same reason.
Their people will not support it.
Zelensky is right that if Russia is allowed to just invade any country it wants, America will face pressure too.
You are not willing to fight.
Only mouth the words to feel 'special' from the safety of your keyboard.
Americans are no longer willing to die for Europe.
Seriously….no offense.
However you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired in the events leading up to US involvement in WW2.
An involvement that resulted in the defeat of Japan and Germany.
Also resulted in the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union for over 50 years.
Resulted in China becoming communist with at deaths of over 40 million Chinese following.
And of yeah…..over 500,000 Americans died.
So no, I do not consider WW2 to be worth repeating with a nuclear version over Ukraine.
However, you clearly have a minimal understanding of what transpired before, during, and after the US involvement and underestimate what the results would have looked like if we had handled things differently.
We should have done more to keep the Soviets from doing what they did - and we are STILL dealing with it now and Trumps buddy, Putin, is further proof of that. They were and always have been the wild card in almost every modern political situation, but especially from the time that Stalin took power.
Staying out would have prevented the Chinese deaths or them becomming Communist? Really? LOL I guess that would clearly have prevented disease and starvation there (or in Russia, for that matter).
Leaving Europe to handle Hitler on their own would have been better for the world (and US)? ***?
And, oh yeah... US deaths were not over 500k. Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans, Second World War: deaths per country 1939-1945 | Statista, World War 2 Casualties | World War 2 Facts
People like you are always willing for SOMEONE ELSE to do the fighting and dying. The American people are not willing to go to war over Ukraine. And nothing ignorantly posted on a free message board is altering that fact.
WW2 was not in the strategic interests of the United States nor worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of our servicemen.
Japanese domination of the Far East was traded for Communist China's domination.
In
Nazi Germany domination of Europe was traded for the Soviet Union's domination of Eastern Europe.
BTW most of the millions of dead Chinese were intentionally and cynically perpetrated by Mao.
Read up.
With all due respect, Nazi and Japanese domination of the Asian continent would have been catastrophic economically and geopolitically for the US.
Those two industrially advanced nations would have outpaced North America in innovation and eventually military power with access to all those resources. South America would not have necessarily joined up with North America for the long haul.
There are lots of arguments for ending the war in Ukraine now, but this isn't one of them.
It's all just historical hypotheticals for fun
But I think the USA outpaces both
Nazi Germany was socialist…meaning it would have been closer to the USSR in development than the USA
Japan with Asian resources would have been formidable but would have also had to deal with post WWII independence movements and endless guerrilla wars constantly breaking out in its empire…especially China with its long history of Han nationalism.
The USA merging economically (if not politically) with the leftovers of the British Empire would have continued to outpace them all…and would have had terrify nuclear arsenal and powerful Western Hemisphere military
The USA for instance would still have gotten to the moon first
And we probably would have never chosen to de-industrialize in the face of a Japanese empire in the Pacific and Nazi empire in Europe
By the 1990s both might have broken up anyway similar to the USSR (if possibly a more bloody collapse)
We would have beat the Nazis to the moon? No. Absolute hysterical rambling to think an isolated USA could stand against the entire world under Japanese/Nazi rule.