So is this a troll, negotiating tactic, or 4D economic chess?boognish_bear said:
Sigh.ATL Bear said:So is this a troll, negotiating tactic, or 4D economic chess?boognish_bear said:
I bet in private Bessent sees the clouds building with yields up and the dollar declining and knows artificial price increases will only exacerbate it. Of course maybe Trump wants the dollar decimated so his crypto friends and empire can flourish.
Did the chaos of April bring about better trade deals that will have better, longer-lasting effects?ATL Bear said:
Don't worry, everyone except you die hards see it for what it is, political theater dressed up as policy, and economic volatility masquerading as leverage. He's not empowering negotiations, he's undercutting them and the markets with chaos.
Reporter: What makes you confident that Apple can build in the US at a price that—
— Acyn (@Acyn) May 23, 2025
Trump: Oh they can, a lot of it is so computerized. These plants are amazing pic.twitter.com/rtB1fkNIAv
List all the trade deals please so we can discuss.LIB,MR BEARS said:Did the chaos of April bring about better trade deals that will have better, longer-lasting effects?ATL Bear said:
Don't worry, everyone except you die hards see it for what it is, political theater dressed up as policy, and economic volatility masquerading as leverage. He's not empowering negotiations, he's undercutting them and the markets with chaos.
https://www.tradecomplianceresourcehub.com/2025/05/23/trump-2-0-tariff-tracker/ATL Bear said:List all the trade deals please so we can discuss.LIB,MR BEARS said:Did the chaos of April bring about better trade deals that will have better, longer-lasting effects?ATL Bear said:
Don't worry, everyone except you die hards see it for what it is, political theater dressed up as policy, and economic volatility masquerading as leverage. He's not empowering negotiations, he's undercutting them and the markets with chaos.
Waco1947 said:
Markets down again because of the idiocy of Trump tariffs.
Like I said, please list the trade deals. I think the UK, who we ironically have a trade surplus with, is the only one I'm aware of.Assassin said:https://www.tradecomplianceresourcehub.com/2025/05/23/trump-2-0-tariff-tracker/ATL Bear said:List all the trade deals please so we can discuss.LIB,MR BEARS said:Did the chaos of April bring about better trade deals that will have better, longer-lasting effects?ATL Bear said:
Don't worry, everyone except you die hards see it for what it is, political theater dressed up as policy, and economic volatility masquerading as leverage. He's not empowering negotiations, he's undercutting them and the markets with chaos.
90 days, 90 deals according to to The Best Negotiator Humanity has ever known. Only 89 to go (the only one is less than 1% of trade) and we are half way there. He is such a clown. The Maggot Base thinks it all part of a grand plan. He only plans 2 times a day. Quarter Pounder with Cheese or Filet O Fish.ATL Bear said:Like I said, please list the trade deals. I think the UK, who we ironically have a trade surplus with, is the only one I'm aware of.Assassin said:https://www.tradecomplianceresourcehub.com/2025/05/23/trump-2-0-tariff-tracker/ATL Bear said:List all the trade deals please so we can discuss.LIB,MR BEARS said:Did the chaos of April bring about better trade deals that will have better, longer-lasting effects?ATL Bear said:
Don't worry, everyone except you die hards see it for what it is, political theater dressed up as policy, and economic volatility masquerading as leverage. He's not empowering negotiations, he's undercutting them and the markets with chaos.
Those are a listing of our unilateral tariffs we applied and the chaotic changes that occur on a regular basis.
Walmart’s, $WMT, CFO on tariffs this month: “I would say it's still too high for consumers. We'd like to see them come down more." pic.twitter.com/x29NTWmIBs
— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) May 25, 2025
JUST IN: 🇺🇸🇪🇺 President Trump agrees to delay 50% tariffs on EU until July 9. pic.twitter.com/J68du7TPKp
— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) May 25, 2025
boognish_bear said:JUST IN: 🇺🇸🇪🇺 President Trump agrees to delay 50% tariffs on EU until July 9. pic.twitter.com/J68du7TPKp
— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) May 25, 2025
JUST IN: 🇪🇺🇺🇸 European Union says it's ready to move quickly to negotiate a new trade deal with the US.
— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) May 26, 2025
Trump: "We're not looking to make sneakers and t-shirts. We want to make military equipment, we want to make big things. We want to do the AI thing with the computers. But the textile -- you know, I'm not looking to make t-shirts, to be honest. I'm not looking to make socks." pic.twitter.com/PJLRK4jGsf
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) May 25, 2025
If this is a "ditch," it's one every other country would beg to fall into. The only thing truly stuck is the outdated protectionist fantasy that America is economically broken. But since you ignored my other detailed posts I'll summarize my suggestions to help us go even further and get ahead of the future economy.Oldbear83 said:
Nothing has changed.
All these screaming geniuses with no real plan of their own, all they can do is attack the guy trying to get us out of the ditch.
Same as ever.
Hear, hear!boognish_bear said:Trump: "We're not looking to make sneakers and t-shirts. We want to make military equipment, we want to make big things. We want to do the AI thing with the computers. But the textile -- you know, I'm not looking to make t-shirts, to be honest. I'm not looking to make socks." pic.twitter.com/PJLRK4jGsf
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) May 25, 2025
boognish_bear said:Trump: "We're not looking to make sneakers and t-shirts. We want to make military equipment, we want to make big things. We want to do the AI thing with the computers. But the textile -- you know, I'm not looking to make t-shirts, to be honest. I'm not looking to make socks." pic.twitter.com/PJLRK4jGsf
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) May 25, 2025
Although being a simpleton, I will give you credit for being a non wavering "True Believer"!Oldbear83 said:
Nothing has changed.
All these screaming geniuses with no real plan of their own, all they can do is attack the guy trying to get us out of the ditch.
Same as ever.
I am sorry, losing track of the players.TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:boognish_bear said:Trump: "We're not looking to make sneakers and t-shirts. We want to make military equipment, we want to make big things. We want to do the AI thing with the computers. But the textile -- you know, I'm not looking to make t-shirts, to be honest. I'm not looking to make socks." pic.twitter.com/PJLRK4jGsf
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) May 25, 2025
Yep, the drama queens hate this idea tho because it goes against their ridiculous narrative.
FIFYFLBear5630 said:I am sorry, losing track of the players.TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:boognish_bear said:Trump: "We're not looking to make sneakers and t-shirts. We want to make military equipment, we want to make big things. We want to do the AI thing with the computers. But the textile -- you know, I'm not looking to make t-shirts, to be honest. I'm not looking to make socks." pic.twitter.com/PJLRK4jGsf
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) May 25, 2025
Yep, the drama queens hate this idea tho because it goes against their ridiculous narrative.
Who are the Drama Queens this time? I can't keep track. Sometimes it is the "Globalists" or "NeoComs". Sometimes it's the government employees trying to maintain the status quo. Sometimes it is Donald himself. It also changes on subject, border, Ukraine, Tariffs…
Thanks! Good thing we have you to watch out for us.LIB,MR BEARS said:FIFYFLBear5630 said:I am sorry, losing track of the players.TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:boognish_bear said:Trump: "We're not looking to make sneakers and t-shirts. We want to make military equipment, we want to make big things. We want to do the AI thing with the computers. But the textile -- you know, I'm not looking to make t-shirts, to be honest. I'm not looking to make socks." pic.twitter.com/PJLRK4jGsf
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) May 25, 2025
Yep, the drama queens hate this idea tho because it goes against their ridiculous narrative.
Who are the Drama Queens this time? I can't keep track. Sometimes it is the "Globalists" or "NeoComs". Sometimes it's the government employees trying to maintain the status quo. Sometimes it is Donald himself. It also changes on subject, border, Ukraine, Tariffs…
As I said, you have insults, anger and absolutely no real plan.J.R. said:Although being a simpleton, I will give you credit for being a non wavering "True Believer"!Oldbear83 said:
Nothing has changed.
All these screaming geniuses with no real plan of their own, all they can do is attack the guy trying to get us out of the ditch.
Same as ever.
I explained what the plan sb, simpleton. Maximum pressure on O&G exports. Arm Ukraine to the teeth. Those are the only options.Oldbear83 said:As I said, you have insults, anger and absolutely no real plan.J.R. said:Although being a simpleton, I will give you credit for being a non wavering "True Believer"!Oldbear83 said:
Nothing has changed.
All these screaming geniuses with no real plan of their own, all they can do is attack the guy trying to get us out of the ditch.
Same as ever.
That's a vendetta, not a plan.J.R. said:I explained what the plan sb, simpleton. Maximum pressure on O&G exports. Arm Ukraine to the teeth. Those are the only options.Oldbear83 said:As I said, you have insults, anger and absolutely no real plan.J.R. said:Although being a simpleton, I will give you credit for being a non wavering "True Believer"!Oldbear83 said:
Nothing has changed.
All these screaming geniuses with no real plan of their own, all they can do is attack the guy trying to get us out of the ditch.
Same as ever.
You are blinded by hate.ATL Bear said:
Don't worry, everyone except you die hards see it for what it is, political theater dressed up as policy, and economic volatility masquerading as leverage. He's not empowering negotiations, he's undercutting them and the markets with chaos.
True. Tim Cook has already said the same thing.boognish_bear said:Reporter: What makes you confident that Apple can build in the US at a price that—
— Acyn (@Acyn) May 23, 2025
Trump: Oh they can, a lot of it is so computerized. These plants are amazing pic.twitter.com/rtB1fkNIAv
killing on the other side of the world is viewed as a non-evil just like pollution on the other side of the world.Oldbear83 said:That's a vendetta, not a plan.J.R. said:I explained what the plan sb, simpleton. Maximum pressure on O&G exports. Arm Ukraine to the teeth. Those are the only options.Oldbear83 said:As I said, you have insults, anger and absolutely no real plan.J.R. said:Although being a simpleton, I will give you credit for being a non wavering "True Believer"!Oldbear83 said:
Nothing has changed.
All these screaming geniuses with no real plan of their own, all they can do is attack the guy trying to get us out of the ditch.
Same as ever.
You mistake disagreement for hatred, and economic critique for political hysteria, but I'm not the one getting emotional over tariffs. All Trump has now is political theater. The question is whether it's effective or just costly showmanship. Markets are intelligent enough to have priced in his irrational volatility, but that's not praise, that's adaptation. It's like learning to work around a power outage, necessary but suboptimal.whiterock said:You are blinded by hate.ATL Bear said:
Don't worry, everyone except you die hards see it for what it is, political theater dressed up as policy, and economic volatility masquerading as leverage. He's not empowering negotiations, he's undercutting them and the markets with chaos.
Trump is a master at political theater.
Political theater is necessary in politics.
Markets are no longer reacting rashly to his statements, because they realize he is engaging in political theater
Markets also understand he's not trying to use tariffs to build a closed US economic system; he's just trying to achieve a trade balance which is good for everyone. EU leaders, on the other hand, have constituent interests and cannot disregard his political theater. He actually does have the power to execute on threat (which will hurt them more than us). Actually enacting 50% tariffs will throw their economies into immediate recession. The least-cost path forward for them is to cut a deal to prevent further damage, which they will do. They too, you see, understand what you do not. They all benefit from a strong dollar. They are all heavily invested in a strong dollar system. And the single greatest threat to a strong dollar system, in escalating structural US trade deficits.
And as a matter of elementary macroeconomic policy, it's more than little important to fix the structural trade deficit before you engage in other policies of macroeconomic stimulus (the Big Beautiful Bill).....because, you see, when you have a structural trade deficit, macroeconomic stimulus doesn't just grow the economy. IT GROWS THE TRADE DEFICIT, too....putting even more strain on the strong dollar system.
Such simple, elementary things at play here. But you hear the word tariff or see the orange skin, and you lose your friggin' mind. You are going to look incredibly foolish when this is all over with. But don't worry. You will not be alone.
ATL Bear said:You mistake disagreement for hatred, and economic critique for political hysteria, but I'm not the one getting emotional over tariffs. All Trump has now is political theater. The question is whether it's effective or just costly showmanship. Markets are intelligent enough to have priced in his irrational volatility, but that's not praise, that's adaptation. It's like learning to work around a power outage, necessary but suboptimal.whiterock said:You are blinded by hate.ATL Bear said:
Don't worry, everyone except you die hards see it for what it is, political theater dressed up as policy, and economic volatility masquerading as leverage. He's not empowering negotiations, he's undercutting them and the markets with chaos.
Trump is a master at political theater.
Political theater is necessary in politics.
Markets are no longer reacting rashly to his statements, because they realize he is engaging in political theater
Markets also understand he's not trying to use tariffs to build a closed US economic system; he's just trying to achieve a trade balance which is good for everyone. EU leaders, on the other hand, have constituent interests and cannot disregard his political theater. He actually does have the power to execute on threat (which will hurt them more than us). Actually enacting 50% tariffs will throw their economies into immediate recession. The least-cost path forward for them is to cut a deal to prevent further damage, which they will do. They too, you see, understand what you do not. They all benefit from a strong dollar. They are all heavily invested in a strong dollar system. And the single greatest threat to a strong dollar system, in escalating structural US trade deficits.
And as a matter of elementary macroeconomic policy, it's more than little important to fix the structural trade deficit before you engage in other policies of macroeconomic stimulus (the Big Beautiful Bill).....because, you see, when you have a structural trade deficit, macroeconomic stimulus doesn't just grow the economy. IT GROWS THE TRADE DEFICIT, too....putting even more strain on the strong dollar system.
Such simple, elementary things at play here. But you hear the word tariff or see the orange skin, and you lose your friggin' mind. You are going to look incredibly foolish when this is all over with. But don't worry. You will not be alone.
But the only people looking foolish in this are you and the blind followers. Why? Well you might want to go back and count how many times you and others have had to revise your position just to keep up with this administration's schizophrenic economic strategy.
Tariffs were going to replace the income tax, remember that fantasy? Then they were about reshoring manufacturing and rebuilding the middle class. Then they became just a negotiating tactic, except when they weren't. One day we're praising Apple for moving iPhone production out of China to India as some kind of supply chain masterstroke, and the next Trump is threatening Tim Cook for producing in India. You were once lambasting globalists for "selling off our equity" to foreign interests and shipping rents overseas, and now Trump's courting of Middle Eastern investment is brilliant statecraft and economic revival. Tariff on, tariff off. Tariff allies. Pause tariffs. Reimpose them. It's economic whiplash disguised as strategy.
And what's most laughable is how you all keep pitching this as some long term, well-thought out plan, when in reality it's being ad-libbed in real time on social media with zero institutional alignment or executional roadmap. That's not strategy, that's improvisational chaos dressed up as toughness.
As far as the sins of his predecessors, I've never found value in using those as cover or justification for a current sin. There is more than one way to fail at something even if intentions are more aligned with one's thinking. For me it's as much about the strategy as the methods.LIB,MR BEARS said:ATL Bear said:You mistake disagreement for hatred, and economic critique for political hysteria, but I'm not the one getting emotional over tariffs. All Trump has now is political theater. The question is whether it's effective or just costly showmanship. Markets are intelligent enough to have priced in his irrational volatility, but that's not praise, that's adaptation. It's like learning to work around a power outage, necessary but suboptimal.whiterock said:You are blinded by hate.ATL Bear said:
Don't worry, everyone except you die hards see it for what it is, political theater dressed up as policy, and economic volatility masquerading as leverage. He's not empowering negotiations, he's undercutting them and the markets with chaos.
Trump is a master at political theater.
Political theater is necessary in politics.
Markets are no longer reacting rashly to his statements, because they realize he is engaging in political theater
Markets also understand he's not trying to use tariffs to build a closed US economic system; he's just trying to achieve a trade balance which is good for everyone. EU leaders, on the other hand, have constituent interests and cannot disregard his political theater. He actually does have the power to execute on threat (which will hurt them more than us). Actually enacting 50% tariffs will throw their economies into immediate recession. The least-cost path forward for them is to cut a deal to prevent further damage, which they will do. They too, you see, understand what you do not. They all benefit from a strong dollar. They are all heavily invested in a strong dollar system. And the single greatest threat to a strong dollar system, in escalating structural US trade deficits.
And as a matter of elementary macroeconomic policy, it's more than little important to fix the structural trade deficit before you engage in other policies of macroeconomic stimulus (the Big Beautiful Bill).....because, you see, when you have a structural trade deficit, macroeconomic stimulus doesn't just grow the economy. IT GROWS THE TRADE DEFICIT, too....putting even more strain on the strong dollar system.
Such simple, elementary things at play here. But you hear the word tariff or see the orange skin, and you lose your friggin' mind. You are going to look incredibly foolish when this is all over with. But don't worry. You will not be alone.
But the only people looking foolish in this are you and the blind followers. Why? Well you might want to go back and count how many times you and others have had to revise your position just to keep up with this administration's schizophrenic economic strategy.
Tariffs were going to replace the income tax, remember that fantasy? Then they were about reshoring manufacturing and rebuilding the middle class. Then they became just a negotiating tactic, except when they weren't. One day we're praising Apple for moving iPhone production out of China to India as some kind of supply chain masterstroke, and the next Trump is threatening Tim Cook for producing in India. You were once lambasting globalists for "selling off our equity" to foreign interests and shipping rents overseas, and now Trump's courting of Middle Eastern investment is brilliant statecraft and economic revival. Tariff on, tariff off. Tariff allies. Pause tariffs. Reimpose them. It's economic whiplash disguised as strategy.
And what's most laughable is how you all keep pitching this as some long term, well-thought out plan, when in reality it's being ad-libbed in real time on social media with zero institutional alignment or executional roadmap. That's not strategy, that's improvisational chaos dressed up as toughness.
These are simple questions:
Do business leaders ever use disruption/chaos to create change?Sure. But only when the disruption is strategic, calculated, and backed by a viable plan. Trump's disruption isn't a CEO-style strategic pivot, it's a bull in a china shop routine. Business leaders don't torch supply chains without knowing what comes next. They don't bluff 50% tariffs and hope the other side folds. They don't flip-flop week to week and call it a master plan.
Do businesses opposing disruption want stability?Stability is obviously preferred for planning purposes, but what we have is volatile uncertainty which is considered a significant risk premium. We aren't dealing with strategic disruption in a traditional sense (like say the Internet or AI), we're dealing with chaotic reactionism. What makes it more problematic is it's being done with very short timelines that don't allow businesses to adjust.
Will businesses negotiate to get stability?Of course. But when it starts from a unilateral attack on existing trade deals followed by erratic changes in terms it erodes confidence in the policy and negotiating environment.
Do negotiations ever lead to a better deal than the existing deal?Sometimes. Having only one example of a deal finalized, I don't think anyone can say it's clearly better than the previous arrangement. Granted, while claiming it's complete there is still a lot of sectional pieces to be worked out on the UK deal.
Do nations advocate for their businesses?Of course. What may be more unique here is how many of our domestic businesses we are advocating against.
Trump's methods may not be your cup of tea but they are more likely to produce better results than the Depend wearer in Chief got, better than pallets of money to Iran got, better than starting a war over fictional WMDs got (unless you're heavy in Halliburton stock), better than selling missile technology to China got.
How many times have you voted for lip service only to get status quo?
