KaiBear said:

---

Trade deficits are not just some obscure, unimportant numbers.

Rather they represent a hemorrhaging of US cash out of the country.

Historically most US presidents never blindly allowed trade deficits. As they understood the negative implications.

---

That is just simply misleading on top of being false.

Jack Bauer said:

---

🧵of all the trade wars Trump has won so far today. I will add updates as countries respond and announce removal of tariffs, no tariff response or escalatory tariffs.

Argentina 🇦🇷 - Removed all tariffs
Vietnam 🇻🇳 - Removed all tariffs
Israel 🇮🇱 - Removed all tariffs
Canada…

— Aesthetica (@Anc_Aesthetics) April 2, 2025

---

Vietnam cut tariffs previously in anticipation. Claiming that as a victory in this situation is another example of X randos making stuff up.

KaiBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Trade deficits are not just some obscure, unimportant numbers.

Rather they represent a hemorrhaging of US cash out of the country.

Historically most US presidents never blindly allowed trade deficits. As they understood the negative implications.

---

Trade deficits - especially with regard to certain products - aren't necessarily a bad thing.

Using tariffs to try and address them, however, is utterly stupid and fails to address the reason for the deficit.

---

When a country's trade deficit is in the hundreds of billions annually; compounded by a federal deficit that is spiraling completely out of control …..increasing by a TRILLION dollars every 140 DAYS.

Immediate actions are required….and it isn't going to be pleasant.

---

Getting into a trade war does not typically raise revenue. You lose more money due to countries avoiding your goods, than you make back in tariffs. And if countries avoid your goods, you lose jobs on top of money.

And then there is the time horizon on getting manufacturing back to the US. Many companies would rather wait this out for 3.5 years, than take a big risk and move to the US. Their competitors might stay in China/India/Vietnam.

International trade in the day of the internet is far more heavily weighted towards consumer sentiment than mentioned in the national news. Consumers from entire countries can avoid your stuff, even if you get somewhere on tariffs.

As long as Trump removes the tariffs on anyone who removes tariffs on us, this could still work, but the world needs to be shown that there is a way out of this mess better than retaliating.

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Trade deficits are not just some obscure, unimportant numbers.

Rather they represent a hemorrhaging of US cash out of the country.

Historically most US presidents never blindly allowed trade deficits. As they understood the negative implications.

---

You have a massive trade deficit with your grocery store.

---

In the local grocery store run by Chinese communists trying to build up a massive military and exert influence and power around the globe?

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Trade deficits are not just some obscure, unimportant numbers.

Rather they represent a hemorrhaging of US cash out of the country.

Historically most US presidents never blindly allowed trade deficits. As they understood the negative implications.

---

Trade deficits - especially with regard to certain products - aren't necessarily a bad thing.

Using tariffs to try and address them, however, is utterly stupid and fails to address the reason for the deficit.

---

When a country's trade deficit is in the hundreds of billions annually; compounded by a federal deficit that is spiraling completely out of control …..increasing by a TRILLION dollars every 140 DAYS.

Immediate actions are required….and it isn't going to be pleasant.

---

Getting into a trade war does not typically raise revenue. You lose more money due to countries avoiding your goods, than you make back in tariffs. And if countries avoid your goods, you lose jobs on top of money.

And then there is the time horizon on getting manufacturing back to the US. Many companies would rather wait this out for 3.5 years, than take a big risk and move to the US. Their competitors might stay in China/India/Vietnam.

International trade in the day of the internet is far more heavily weighted towards consumer sentiment than mentioned in the national news. Consumers from entire countries can avoid your stuff, even if you get somewhere on tariffs.

As long as Trump removes the tariffs on anyone who removes tariffs on us, this could still work, but the world needs to be shown that there is a way out of this mess better than retaliating.

---

If Vietnam imposes no tariffs on us and we do not impose tariffs on Vietnam we will still have a massive trade imbalance with Vietnam. Apple and Nike will still have huge manufacturing in Vietnam.

That is why others have explained that although Trump is branding the move as reciprocal tariffs, the plan is based on trade deficits rather than tariff structure. There is not anything Vietnam can do to fix this other than plead for mercy. And if Trump doesn't grant mercy, costs rise-your phone and your sneakers cost 25% more.

Frank Galvin said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Trade deficits are not just some obscure, unimportant numbers.

Rather they represent a hemorrhaging of US cash out of the country.

Historically most US presidents never blindly allowed trade deficits. As they understood the negative implications.

---

Trade deficits - especially with regard to certain products - aren't necessarily a bad thing.

Using tariffs to try and address them, however, is utterly stupid and fails to address the reason for the deficit.

---

When a country's trade deficit is in the hundreds of billions annually; compounded by a federal deficit that is spiraling completely out of control …..increasing by a TRILLION dollars every 140 DAYS.

Immediate actions are required….and it isn't going to be pleasant.

---

Getting into a trade war does not typically raise revenue. You lose more money due to countries avoiding your goods, than you make back in tariffs. And if countries avoid your goods, you lose jobs on top of money.

And then there is the time horizon on getting manufacturing back to the US. Many companies would rather wait this out for 3.5 years, than take a big risk and move to the US. Their competitors might stay in China/India/Vietnam.

International trade in the day of the internet is far more heavily weighted towards consumer sentiment than mentioned in the national news. Consumers from entire countries can avoid your stuff, even if you get somewhere on tariffs.

As long as Trump removes the tariffs on anyone who removes tariffs on us, this could still work, but the world needs to be shown that there is a way out of this mess better than retaliating.

---

If Vietnam imposes no tariffs on us and we do not impose tariffs on Vietnam we will still have a massive trade imbalance with Vietnam. Apple and Nike will still huge manufacturing in Vietnam.

That is why others have explained that although Trump is branding the move as reciprocal tariffs, it he plan is based on trade deficits rather than tariff structure. There is not anything Vietnam can do to fix this other than plead for mercy. And if Trump doesn't grant mercy costs rise-your phone and your sneakers cost 25% more.

---

Trump promised to bring prices down. He campaigned on it. If he maintains the 10% base I fail to see how things can go down. Unless he meant in 20 years.

If this goes through, and I'm especially pissed about Taiwan, let's just destroy them and make it easy for China to take over, this little conservative Renaissance is done.

BearFan33 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Trump was not playing chicken.

---

Agreed. Just playing stupid.

---

Certainly a lot of pain right now. Will it be short term? Will there be long term gain?

---

It might get some of these countries to get rid of or reduce their tariffs altogether (a number of them are miniscule), but it won't come close to fixing the trade imbalance - which is his goal, apparently.

Porteroso said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Trade deficits are not just some obscure, unimportant numbers.

Rather they represent a hemorrhaging of US cash out of the country.

Historically most US presidents never blindly allowed trade deficits. As they understood the negative implications.

---

Trade deficits - especially with regard to certain products - aren't necessarily a bad thing.

Using tariffs to try and address them, however, is utterly stupid and fails to address the reason for the deficit.

---

When a country's trade deficit is in the hundreds of billions annually; compounded by a federal deficit that is spiraling completely out of control …..increasing by a TRILLION dollars every 140 DAYS.

Immediate actions are required….and it isn't going to be pleasant.

---

Getting into a trade war does not typically raise revenue. You lose more money due to countries avoiding your goods, than you make back in tariffs. And if countries avoid your goods, you lose jobs on top of money.

And then there is the time horizon on getting manufacturing back to the US. Many companies would rather wait this out for 3.5 years, than take a big risk and move to the US. Their competitors might stay in China/India/Vietnam.

International trade in the day of the internet is far more heavily weighted towards consumer sentiment than mentioned in the national news. Consumers from entire countries can avoid your stuff, even if you get somewhere on tariffs.

As long as Trump removes the tariffs on anyone who removes tariffs on us, this could still work, but the world needs to be shown that there is a way out of this mess better than retaliating.

---

If Vietnam imposes no tariffs on us and we do not impose tariffs on Vietnam we will still have a massive trade imbalance with Vietnam. Apple and Nike will still huge manufacturing in Vietnam.

That is why others have explained that although Trump is branding the move as reciprocal tariffs, it he plan is based on trade deficits rather than tariff structure. There is not anything Vietnam can do to fix this other than plead for mercy. And if Trump doesn't grant mercy costs rise-your phone and your sneakers cost 25% more.

---

Trump promised to bring prices down. He campaigned on it. If he maintains the 10% base I fail to see how things can go down. Unless he meant in 20 years.

If this goes through, and I'm especially pissed about Taiwan, let's just destroy them and make it easy for China to take over, this little conservative Renaissance is done.

---

Trump has made a million promises in his life and reneged on most of them.

I will give him this-I think he is doing what he thinks is best for America. He is doing it within the framework of the Constitution. The fact that he is likely wrong is why we have elections, we get to judge policies by their results.

It is almost refreshing to have this sort of discussion rather than the usual Trump arguments, where I believe he routinely trashes the Constitution for personal gain.

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Trade deficits are not just some obscure, unimportant numbers.

Rather they represent a hemorrhaging of US cash out of the country.

Historically most US presidents never blindly allowed trade deficits. As they understood the negative implications.

---

You have a massive trade deficit with your grocery store.

---

In the local grocery store run by Chinese communists trying to build up a massive military and exert influence and power around the globe?

---

I've posted since I first joined SE365 that I could not care less what we did to China. They lie, cheat, and steal incessantly and place sky-high barriers for American business. I had clients in private practice lose everything because China stole their trade secrets and tech.

But China is truly unique.

My point is that trade deficits in themselves are not bad things. We are a consumer economy. We are massive. Due to pure inertia, we will have trade deficits. But if all (or most) economies are growing, irade still benefits everyone.

And trade deficits are used as propaganda. We have a trade surplus with Canada, yet Trump has demonized Canada more than anyone.

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Trade deficits are not just some obscure, unimportant numbers.

Rather they represent a hemorrhaging of US cash out of the country.

Historically most US presidents never blindly allowed trade deficits. As they understood the negative implications.

---

You have a massive trade deficit with your grocery store.

---

In the local grocery store run by Chinese communists trying to build up a massive military and exert influence and power around the globe?

---

I've posted since I first joined SE365 that I could not care less what we did to China. They lie, cheat, and steal incessantly and place sky-high barriers for American business. I had clients in private practice lose everything because China stole their trade secrets and tech.

But China is truly unique.

My point is that trade deficits in themselves are not bad things. We are a consumer economy. We are massive. Due to pure inertia, we will have trade deficits. But if all (or most) economies are growing, irade still benefits everyone.

And trade deficits are used as propaganda. We have a trade surplus with Canada, yet Trump has demonized Canada more than anyone.

---

We do not have a trade surplus with Canada.

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Trump was not playing chicken.

---

Agreed. Just playing stupid.

---

Certainly a lot of pain right now. Will it be short term? Will there be long term gain?

---

It might get some of these countries to get rid of or reduce their tariffs altogether (a number of them are miniscule), but it won't come close to fixing the trade imbalance - which is his goal, apparently.

---

There may be more to it than that. I agree he wont fix the trade imbalance but he is getting companies to invest in the USA which should translate to more jobs. And there are national security issues to worry about if things like semiconductors and/or chips are all made in foreign countries. We don't have to worry about supply chains if most everything is made here.

I do believe its good to debate these things. Is it all worth the pain and butt hurt allies?

I don't think Trump is crazy just completely unafraid to make big decisions....perhaps reckless.

I still do prefer that to the other party that seems hell bent on destroying the country (on purpose).

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Trade deficits are not just some obscure, unimportant numbers.

Rather they represent a hemorrhaging of US cash out of the country.

Historically most US presidents never blindly allowed trade deficits. As they understood the negative implications.

---

You have a massive trade deficit with your grocery store.

---

In the local grocery store run by Chinese communists trying to build up a massive military and exert influence and power around the globe?

---

I've posted since I first joined SE365 that I could not care less what we did to China. They lie, cheat, and steal incessantly and place sky-high barriers for American business. I had clients in private practice lose everything because China stole their trade secrets and tech.

But China is truly unique.

My point is that trade deficits in themselves are not bad things. We are a consumer economy. We are massive. Due to pure inertia, we will have trade deficits. But if all (or most) economies are growing, irade still benefits everyone.

And trade deficits are used as propaganda. We have a trade surplus with Canada, yet Trump has demonized Canada more than anyone.

---

We do not have a trade surplus with Canada.

---

That is correct. The trade deficit with Canada is relatively small and almost entirely due to imported energy. Meaning you could "fix" the trade deficit with Canada by making US energy cheaper rather than making Canadian goods more expensive. I thought the energy piece was something Trump was going to do?

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Trade deficits are not just some obscure, unimportant numbers.

Rather they represent a hemorrhaging of US cash out of the country.

Historically most US presidents never blindly allowed trade deficits. As they understood the negative implications.

---

You have a massive trade deficit with your grocery store.

---

In the local grocery store run by Chinese communists trying to build up a massive military and exert influence and power around the globe?

---

I've posted since I first joined SE365 that I could not care less what we did to China. They lie, cheat, and steal incessantly and place sky-high barriers for American business. I had clients in private practice lose everything because China stole their trade secrets and tech.

But China is truly unique.

My point is that trade deficits in themselves are not bad things. We are a consumer economy. We are massive. Due to pure inertia, we will have trade deficits. But if all (or most) economies are growing, irade still benefits everyone.

And trade deficits are used as propaganda. We have a trade surplus with Canada, yet Trump has demonized Canada more than anyone.

---

We do not have a trade surplus with Canada.

---

For all practical purposes we sure do. Excluding oil, we have a significant overall trade surplus.

Why exclude oil? Because the oil relationship is intentional and intertwined. Mostly American affiliates send crude to U.S. refineries. It's a true win-win.

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

There's little evidence that the tariffs are going to pay down national debt, and the miniscule amounts it collects is going to be from the American consumer.

So, in reality, he's using the American consumer to pay down the national debt.

BearFan33 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Trump was not playing chicken.

---

Agreed. Just playing stupid.

---

Certainly a lot of pain right now. Will it be short term? Will there be long term gain?

---

It might get some of these countries to get rid of or reduce their tariffs altogether (a number of them are miniscule), but it won't come close to fixing the trade imbalance - which is his goal, apparently.

---

There may be more to it than that. I agree he wont fix the trade imbalance but he is getting companies to invest in the USA which should translate to more jobs. And there are national security issues to worry about if things like semiconductors and/or chips are all made in foreign countries. We don't have to worry about supply chains if most everything is made here.

I do believe its good to debate these things. Is it all worth the pain and butt hurt allies?

I don't think Trump is crazy just completely unafraid to make big decisions....perhaps reckless.

I still do prefer that to the other party that seems hell bent on destroying the country (on purpose).

---

Problem is, they won't come close to fixing the trade imbalance, or to allowing everything to be made here. That's a fantasy that is never gonna happen. The other problem is it will result in significantly more expensive products, which in turn will reduce demand.

Moreover, he's got two years - at best - to impose his tariffs. When the economy tanks, the Dems will take control of both the House and Senate, and the tariffs will be overturned.

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Trump was not playing chicken.

---

Agreed. Just playing stupid.

---

Certainly a lot of pain right now. Will it be short term? Will there be long term gain?

---

It might get some of these countries to get rid of or reduce their tariffs altogether (a number of them are miniscule), but it won't come close to fixing the trade imbalance - which is his goal, apparently.

---

There may be more to it than that. I agree he wont fix the trade imbalance but he is getting companies to invest in the USA which should translate to more jobs. And there are national security issues to worry about if things like semiconductors and/or chips are all made in foreign countries. We don't have to worry about supply chains if most everything is made here.

I do believe its good to debate these things. Is it all worth the pain and butt hurt allies?

I don't think Trump is crazy just completely unafraid to make big decisions....perhaps reckless.

I still do prefer that to the other party that seems hell bent on destroying the country (on purpose).

---

Problem is, they won't come close to fixing the trade imbalance, or to allowing everything to be made here. That's a fantasy that is never gonna happen.

---

1. Technically its not a fantasy.....the USA is one of the few countries on earth (maybe only country) that could be a functional Autarky if it wanted. (not that it will)

2. No one really wants to have "everything be made here". That is not the goal. The goal is to become more manufacturing independent....or at least to drive supply chains away from Asia to move them to Latin America (New Monroe doctrine you might call it). That will not only drive jobs to the USA but also to the poor of Latin America. Lessing mass immigration from those areas....and making America more geo-strategically secure.

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

There's little evidence that the tariffs are going to pay down national debt, and the miniscule amounts it collects is going to be from the American consumer.

So, in reality, he's using the American consumer to pay down the national debt.

---

The amounts collected by tariffs are not miniscule but still tariffs alone wont pay down the debt... it needs to be paired with massive cuts to government spending - specifically expensive foreign wars.

I take it you are in the "massive tax hikes on income and capital gains" camp.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Trump was not playing chicken.

---

Agreed. Just playing stupid.

---

Certainly a lot of pain right now. Will it be short term? Will there be long term gain?

---

It might get some of these countries to get rid of or reduce their tariffs altogether (a number of them are miniscule), but it won't come close to fixing the trade imbalance - which is his goal, apparently.

---

There may be more to it than that. I agree he wont fix the trade imbalance but he is getting companies to invest in the USA which should translate to more jobs. And there are national security issues to worry about if things like semiconductors and/or chips are all made in foreign countries. We don't have to worry about supply chains if most everything is made here.

I do believe its good to debate these things. Is it all worth the pain and butt hurt allies?

I don't think Trump is crazy just completely unafraid to make big decisions....perhaps reckless.

I still do prefer that to the other party that seems hell bent on destroying the country (on purpose).

---

Problem is, they won't come close to fixing the trade imbalance, or to allowing everything to be made here. That's a fantasy that is never gonna happen.

---

1. Technically is not a fantasy.....the USA is one of the few countries on earth (maybe only country) that could be a functional Autarky if it wanted.

2. No one really wants to have "everything be made here". That is not the goal. The goal is to become more manufacturing independent....or at least to drive supply chains away from Asia to move them to Latin America (New Monroe doctrine you might call it). That will not only drive jobs to the USA but also to the poor of Latin America. Lessing mass immigration from those areas....and making America more geo-strategically secure.

---

1) It would require Americans to go along with the idea, and we both know that's not going to happen. Americans aren't going to put up with $70k Dodge Caravans, $2k iPhones and a tanked economy. That is the fantasy. Trump has 2 years at best to make all this happen, which means, it ain't happening.

2) I don't have a problem with this, but it will require heavy American investment in Latin America, most of which are run by crappy govts.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearFan33 said:

---

Trump was not playing chicken.

---

Agreed. Just playing stupid.

---

Certainly a lot of pain right now. Will it be short term? Will there be long term gain?

---

It might get some of these countries to get rid of or reduce their tariffs altogether (a number of them are miniscule), but it won't come close to fixing the trade imbalance - which is his goal, apparently.

---

There may be more to it than that. I agree he wont fix the trade imbalance but he is getting companies to invest in the USA which should translate to more jobs. And there are national security issues to worry about if things like semiconductors and/or chips are all made in foreign countries. We don't have to worry about supply chains if most everything is made here.

I do believe its good to debate these things. Is it all worth the pain and butt hurt allies?

I don't think Trump is crazy just completely unafraid to make big decisions....perhaps reckless.

I still do prefer that to the other party that seems hell bent on destroying the country (on purpose).

---

Problem is, they won't come close to fixing the trade imbalance, or to allowing everything to be made here. That's a fantasy that is never gonna happen.

---

1. Technically is not a fantasy.....the USA is one of the few countries on earth (maybe only country) that could be a functional Autarky if it wanted.

2. No one really wants to have "everything be made here". That is not the goal. The goal is to become more manufacturing independent....or at least to drive supply chains away from Asia to move them to Latin America (New Monroe doctrine you might call it). That will not only drive jobs to the USA but also to the poor of Latin America. Lessing mass immigration from those areas....and making America more geo-strategically secure.

---

Good point

Whirlpool to eliminate 651 manufacturing jobs in Amana, Iowa — Des Moines Register

— NewsWire (@NewsWire_US) April 3, 2025

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

There's little evidence that the tariffs are going to pay down national debt, and the miniscule amounts it collects is going to be from the American consumer.

So, in reality, he's using the American consumer to pay down the national debt.

---

The amounts collected by tariffs are not miniscule but still tariffs alone wont pay down the debt... it needs to be paired with massive cuts to government spending - specifically expensive foreign wars.

I take it you are in the "massive tax hikes on income and capital gains" camp.

---

They're miniscule when compared to the debt, which was my point. They will barely make a dent.

I am not sure what the "massive tax hikes on income and capital gains" camp is. Care to explain?

I am generally free market, low taxes, limited govt. and not putting artificial procedures on the market which will only feed the pocketbooks of the unions - you know, the kind of conservative fiscal principles that Republicans have been known for the last 100 years or so. In that regard, I do admittedly have a problem with what is essentially a massive tax hike on the American consumer being used to pay down the national debt. I see you take no issue with it.

Several great posts from Mothra, Redbrick and Frank. Thanks for educational info.

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

There's little evidence that the tariffs are going to pay down national debt, and the miniscule amounts it collects is going to be from the American consumer.

So, in reality, he's using the American consumer to pay down the national debt.

---

The amounts collected by tariffs are not miniscule but still tariffs alone wont pay down the debt... it needs to be paired with massive cuts to government spending - specifically expensive foreign wars.

I take it you are in the "massive tax hikes on income and capital gains" camp.

---

They're miniscule when compared to the debt, which was my point. They will barely make a dent.

I am not sure what the "massive tax hikes on income and capital gains" camp is. Care to explain?

I am generally free market, low taxes, limited govt. and not putting artificial procedures on the market which will only feed the pocketbooks of the unions - you know, the kind of conservative fiscal principles that Republicans have been known for the last 100 years or so. In that regard, I do admittedly have a problem with what is essentially a massive tax hike on the American consumer being used to pay down the national debt. I see you take no issue with it.

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I prefer a consumption/sales tax to a blanket income tax.

I'd rather see tariffs used to increase government revenues than an increase in the capital gains tax that would tank the markets far more severely than tariffs do.

The current economic situation is a death sentence for this country. Government waste, fraud, and abuse while far, far worse under Democrats... still grows at an untenable pace under Republicans as well.

The last time our debt-to-GDP was even close to where it is today was WW2... and they raised the tax rate to 91% for every dollar made over $400k to pay down the debt.

Does anyone know if Trump has a team of financial/economics experts that are working on all these ideas? Or is this solely being driven by him?

DETROIT, April 3 (Reuters) - Stellantis NV, maker of Ram trucks and Jeeps, said on Thursday it was temporarily laying off 900 workers at five U.S. facilities after President Donald Trump's tariffs were announced.

— Idrees Ali (@idreesali114) April 3, 2025

JUST IN: 🇨🇦🇺🇸 Canadian Prime Minister Carney says the era of integration with the US economy is over.

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) April 3, 2025

JUST IN: 🇨🇦🇺🇸 Canada to impose 25% tariffs on all US vehicles that are not compliant with the USMCA trade deal.

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) April 3, 2025

Agriculture @SecRollins on tariffs: "For our farmers and our ranchers, they understand that there may be a short time of uncertainty." pic.twitter.com/cgVKrJuJwG

— CSPAN (@cspan) April 3, 2025

boognish_bear said:

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JUST IN: 🇨🇦🇺🇸 Canadian Prime Minister Carney says the era of integration with the US economy is over.

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) April 3, 2025

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About time they stopped screwing us

boognish_bear said:

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JUST IN: 🇨🇦🇺🇸 Canadian Prime Minister Carney says the era of integration with the US economy is over.

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) April 3, 2025

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Canada talks loudly but carries a tiny stick.

The GDP of Canada is same as New York State.

At 11:35 a.m. ET, the Dow plunged 3.35%, or 1416.41 points, to 40,808.91;
the S&P 500 lost 3.99%, or 226.02 points to 5,444.95
and looks headed for its worst day since September 2022;
and the tech-heavy Nasdaq dropped 5%, or 880.27 points, to 16,720.78.

The_barBEARian said:

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boognish_bear said:

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JUST IN: 🇨🇦🇺🇸 Canadian Prime Minister Carney says the era of integration with the US economy is over.

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) April 3, 2025

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Canada talks loudly but carries a tiny stick.

The GDP of Canada is same as New York State.

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And that is with certain provinces doing all the heavy lifting

Ontario, Quebec, Alberta, & Saskatchewan being the big contributors

(some Canadian provinces are like Mississippi level poor)

Quebec is run by French ethno-nationalists and has a long history of separatism sentiment

Alberta & Saskatchewan are run by social conservative pro-oil types and are far more like Montana & the Dakotas than they are to the Leftist-progressive urbanites in Toronto or Ottawa

The Canadian confederation is closer to breaking up than it is to winning a trade war with the USA

The gap between the Canadian and American economies has now reached its widest point in nearly a century.

My latest for @TheHubCanada here: https://t.co/ZrUr6KFMPC #cdnecon #cdnpoli pic.twitter.com/zBeZpuwVWP

— Trevor Tombe (@trevortombe) September 5, 2024

Redbrickbear said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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boognish_bear said:

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JUST IN: 🇨🇦🇺🇸 Canadian Prime Minister Carney says the era of integration with the US economy is over.

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) April 3, 2025

---

Canada talks loudly but carries a tiny stick.

The GDP of Canada is same as New York State.

---

And that is with certain provinces doing all the heavy lifting

Ontario, Quebec, Alberta being the big contributors

(some Canadian provinces are alike Mississippi level poor)

Quebec is run by French ethno-nationalists and has a long history of separatism sentiment

Alberta is run by conservative pro-oil types and is far more like Montana than the progressive in Toronto or Ottawa

The Canadian confederation is closer to breaking up than it is to winning a trade war with the USA

The gap between the Canadian and American economies has now reached its widest point in nearly a century.

My latest for @TheHubCanada here: https://t.co/ZrUr6KFMPC #cdnecon #cdnpoli pic.twitter.com/zBeZpuwVWP

— Trevor Tombe (@trevortombe) September 5, 2024

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I was in Alberta several years ago and attended a Rodeo and when the American Cowboys would complete the announcers said they wanted Alberta to form a country with Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming.

When WalMart tells China that the CCP will have to eat the tariffs you're winning big time.