The_barBEARian said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Not to mention the retirees that are relying on 401k type of investments for retirement. They say, it is temporary. That has a different ring at 75 than it does at 35. Trump was supposed to be better for the market and retirement. This is a nightmare for many people that did nothing but work and save for retirement.

---

Most Millennials will never know what retirement feels like. The average first time homeowner age in America is 40, which means most Millennials in their thirties have never owned their own home.

---

And I am not even sure that age is accurate...it could be far worse

Almost 1 in 4 millennials have no savings....none.....another large group have less than $5,000 in savings

[While not all millennials have no savings, a significant portion, around 66% of working millennials, lack retirement savings, and even fewer are saving adequately, according to the National Institute on Retirement Security. ]

Only half own a home (traditional home, condo, apartment).....and most are servicing mortgages that are a far greater part of their income than previous generations

[In 2022, only a slight majority of millennials (51.5%) had became homeowners]

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/poor-millennials/

The_barBEARian said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Not to mention the retirees that are relying on 401k type of investments for retirement. They say, it is temporary. That has a different ring at 75 than it does at 35. Trump was supposed to be better for the market and retirement. This is a nightmare for many people that did nothing but work and save for retirement.

---

Sorry but its hard to sympathize too much with the Boomers after they allowed our government to run up the credit card and never did a thing to stop it and now expect the next generation to deal with it.

Most Millennials will never know what retirement feels like. The average first time homeowner age in America is 40, which means most Millennials in their thirties have never owned their own home.

---

Geez, you are full of it. The only thing the Boomers did wrong was coddle people like you. Your Generation wouldn't work nearly as hard as the Boomers did or make the sacrifices needed to advance.

But, keep rooting for Trump to destroy the economy. It is going to be so much better for you, right?

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Not sure if this is accurate across the board or not… Comments seemed to indicate so

This guy cracked the tariff formula:@orthonormalist

It’s simply the nation’s trade deficit with us divided by the nation’s exports to us.

Yes. Really.

Vietnam: Exports 136.6, Imports 13.1
Deficit = 123.5

123.5/136.6 = 90% pic.twitter.com/fDOMoQwzKt

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) April 2, 2025

---

So, when I first saw the list, I thought it was actually a reciprocal tariff based on the tariffs imposed by other countries, and I thought it might not be so bad.

However, if this is truly the formula Trump used - which is based apparently on trade deficits - this is not a reciprocal tariff but instead a tariff that tries to get manufacturing to come back to the US - something that is likely never gonna happen in any large numbers.

In short, the Trump admin is misleading the American people by labeling this a reciprocal tariff. That's just a wholly false statement.

Such an entirely ridiculous and unnecessary move, and it's going to come back to bite him. Kiss the midterms goodbye. We are going to lose the House and the Senate. So dumb.

I hope Republicans who didn't skip Economics 101 will block this deal.

---

I'm with you. I could get on board with reciprocal tariffs. If we are instead enacting huge one sided tariffs just to counteract trade deficits, that's insane.

---

muddled thinking. the purpose of tariffs is to address a trade deficit, which will benefit domestic manufacturers and jobs. Whether they are reciprocal or not depends on the nature of the abuse happening, e.g. look at the way China relocates production & transshipments to avoid existing trade restrictions. This is particularly true when it comes to trade subsidies (which many countries do) and non-tariff barriers to trade like the EU VAT.

if you are going to pick this fight you have to smack hard coming out of the gate, to effectively deny entry to our market unless concessions are made. Your opponent, who has investments in an existing supply chain has to make hard decisions about whether he is going to abandon the supply chain or open up his own market to your goods. Sure, the wealthier countries will have at least theoretical options to consider, but it will take years for them to restructure and in the meantime they will incur more damage to their economy than they will inflict on ours (by virtue of having a trade surplus with us).

our position is quite strong and concessions from trade partners are a matter of when not if.

---

So, in other words, this is about damaging other countries' economies more than helping our own. It will take years to change supply chain and manufacturing base, but at least over the course of the next two years we can damage their economies worse than they can damage ours. In the meantime, the American people take it in the shorts.

Such a silly strategy.

---

The silliest strategy of all is doing nothing and accepting the status quo, which is what you are advocating.

Nothing remotely unfair about Trump's policy. If they want access to our markets, they will have to allow us access to theirs. If they bail, they get hurt worse than us. Or they can accept the challenge to compete. Their choice. You do believe competition benefits consumers, right?

WINNING: Trump’s “Reciprocal Tariffs” Trigger Global Response — Multiple Nations Slash Import Duties on U.S. Goods | Jim Hoft, The Gateway Pundit

​Several countries have announced plans to reduce or eliminate tariffs on U.S. imports in response to President Donald Trump’s… pic.twitter.com/hWhuAhRzr9

— Owen Gregorian (@OwenGregorian) April 3, 2025

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Not sure if this is accurate across the board or not… Comments seemed to indicate so

This guy cracked the tariff formula:@orthonormalist

It’s simply the nation’s trade deficit with us divided by the nation’s exports to us.

Yes. Really.

Vietnam: Exports 136.6, Imports 13.1
Deficit = 123.5

123.5/136.6 = 90% pic.twitter.com/fDOMoQwzKt

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) April 2, 2025

---

So, when I first saw the list, I thought it was actually a reciprocal tariff based on the tariffs imposed by other countries, and I thought it might not be so bad.

However, if this is truly the formula Trump used - which is based apparently on trade deficits - this is not a reciprocal tariff but instead a tariff that tries to get manufacturing to come back to the US - something that is likely never gonna happen in any large numbers.

In short, the Trump admin is misleading the American people by labeling this a reciprocal tariff. That's just a wholly false statement.

Such an entirely ridiculous and unnecessary move, and it's going to come back to bite him. Kiss the midterms goodbye. We are going to lose the House and the Senate. So dumb.

I hope Republicans who didn't skip Economics 101 will block this deal.

---

I'm with you. I could get on board with reciprocal tariffs. If we are instead enacting huge one sided tariffs just to counteract trade deficits, that's insane.

---

muddled thinking. the purpose of tariffs is to address a trade deficit, which will benefit domestic manufacturers and jobs. Whether they are reciprocal or not depends on the nature of the abuse happening, e.g. look at the way China relocates production & transshipments to avoid existing trade restrictions. This is particularly true when it comes to trade subsidies (which many countries do) and non-tariff barriers to trade like the EU VAT.

if you are going to pick this fight you have to smack hard coming out of the gate, to effectively deny entry to our market unless concessions are made. Your opponent, who has investments in an existing supply chain has to make hard decisions about whether he is going to abandon the supply chain or open up his own market to your goods. Sure, the wealthier countries will have at least theoretical options to consider, but it will take years for them to restructure and in the meantime they will incur more damage to their economy than they will inflict on ours (by virtue of having a trade surplus with us).

our position is quite strong and concessions from trade partners are a matter of when not if.

---

So, in other words, this is about damaging other countries' economies more than helping our own. It will take years to change supply chain and manufacturing base, but at least over the course of the next two years we can damage their economies worse than they can damage ours. In the meantime, the American people take it in the shorts.

Such a silly strategy.

---

The silliest strategy of all is doing nothing and accepting the status quo, which is what you are advocating.

---

There are a lot of people in America who see nothing wrong with the status quo

They walk out of their expensive homes in their expensive neighborhoods and see nothing wrong with the current spoils system or how the economic pie is divided up

They are going to learn (by the ballot box or the bullet) how wrong they are

The red light is flashing...and the American electorate is signaling (potentially dangerous) revolutionary impulses

[America's newly elected president may be a demagogue and a populist, but what he is above all is a revolutionary.
In hoping to make America great again, Donald Trump promises to introduce a fundamental, comprehensive and rapid transformation of American political, economic, social and cultural institutions. Such a massive change is what we mean by the term "revolution."]


https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4976570-america-has-elected-a-revolutionary-will-he-succeed/

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Not sure if this is accurate across the board or not… Comments seemed to indicate so

This guy cracked the tariff formula:@orthonormalist

It’s simply the nation’s trade deficit with us divided by the nation’s exports to us.

Yes. Really.

Vietnam: Exports 136.6, Imports 13.1
Deficit = 123.5

123.5/136.6 = 90% pic.twitter.com/fDOMoQwzKt

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) April 2, 2025

---

So, when I first saw the list, I thought it was actually a reciprocal tariff based on the tariffs imposed by other countries, and I thought it might not be so bad.

However, if this is truly the formula Trump used - which is based apparently on trade deficits - this is not a reciprocal tariff but instead a tariff that tries to get manufacturing to come back to the US - something that is likely never gonna happen in any large numbers.

In short, the Trump admin is misleading the American people by labeling this a reciprocal tariff. That's just a wholly false statement.

Such an entirely ridiculous and unnecessary move, and it's going to come back to bite him. Kiss the midterms goodbye. We are going to lose the House and the Senate. So dumb.

I hope Republicans who didn't skip Economics 101 will block this deal.

---

I'm with you. I could get on board with reciprocal tariffs. If we are instead enacting huge one sided tariffs just to counteract trade deficits, that's insane.

---

muddled thinking. the purpose of tariffs is to address a trade deficit, which will benefit domestic manufacturers and jobs. Whether they are reciprocal or not depends on the nature of the abuse happening, e.g. look at the way China relocates production & transshipments to avoid existing trade restrictions. This is particularly true when it comes to trade subsidies (which many countries do) and non-tariff barriers to trade like the EU VAT.

if you are going to pick this fight you have to smack hard coming out of the gate, to effectively deny entry to our market unless concessions are made. Your opponent, who has investments in an existing supply chain has to make hard decisions about whether he is going to abandon the supply chain or open up his own market to your goods. Sure, the wealthier countries will have at least theoretical options to consider, but it will take years for them to restructure and in the meantime they will incur more damage to their economy than they will inflict on ours (by virtue of having a trade surplus with us).

our position is quite strong and concessions from trade partners are a matter of when not if.

---

So, in other words, this is about damaging other countries' economies more than helping our own. It will take years to change supply chain and manufacturing base, but at least over the course of the next two years we can damage their economies worse than they can damage ours. In the meantime, the American people take it in the shorts.

Such a silly strategy.

---

The silliest strategy of all is doing nothing and accepting the status quo, which is what you are advocating.

---

There are a lot of people in American who see nothing wrong with the status quo

They walk out of their expensive homes in their expensive neighborhoods and see nothing wrong with the current spoils system or how the economic pie is divided up

They are going to learn (by the ballot box or the bullet) how wrong they are

The red light is flashing...and the American electorate is signaling (potentially dangerously) revolutionary impulses

[America's newly elected president may be a demagogue and a populist, but what he is above all is a revolutionary.
In hoping to make America great again, Donald Trump promises to introduce a fundamental, comprehensive and rapid transformation of American political, economic, social and cultural institutions. Such a massive change is what we mean by the term "revolution."]


https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4976570-america-has-elected-a-revolutionary-will-he-succeed/

---

The aversion to tariffs is a foremost luxury belief of the upper classes. THEIR careers are not impacted by a flood of cheap foreign goods……

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

---

Trumps plan is to offset the increased costs of tariffs with tax cuts. Sure, we don't know exactly how the trade war will conclude nor do we know exactly which taxes Congress will cut or by how much. But right now, his intentions are more than viable. To the extent that remains true, most of your last few posts are based on a false premise.

Don't tell me we are gonna have a panic run on grocery stores like we did in COVID times?

boognish_bear said:

---

Don't tell me we are gonna have a panic run on grocery stores like we did in COVID times?

---

Mark Cuban has morphed into one the dumbest people in this country. Ever since he sold the mavs and the new owners destroyed the franchise and all good will they had in the city, I have nothing but disgust for Cuban.

The stock market usually fluxuates about 1% each day. Today it fluctuated down 4% (3.9 for the sticklers).

Could rebound tomorrow. Could drop more. I think a drop was to be expected. How much of a drop will be tolerated is yet to be seen.

muddybrazos said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Don't tell me we are gonna have a panic run on grocery stores like we did in COVID times?

---

Mark Cuban has morphed into one the dumbest people in this country. Ever since he sold the mavs and the new owners destroyed the franchise and all good will they had in the city, I have nothing but disgust for Cuban.

---

He's turned into a liberal mouthpiece, which is a horrible thing

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Not sure if this is accurate across the board or not… Comments seemed to indicate so

This guy cracked the tariff formula:@orthonormalist

It’s simply the nation’s trade deficit with us divided by the nation’s exports to us.

Yes. Really.

Vietnam: Exports 136.6, Imports 13.1
Deficit = 123.5

123.5/136.6 = 90% pic.twitter.com/fDOMoQwzKt

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) April 2, 2025

---

So, when I first saw the list, I thought it was actually a reciprocal tariff based on the tariffs imposed by other countries, and I thought it might not be so bad.

However, if this is truly the formula Trump used - which is based apparently on trade deficits - this is not a reciprocal tariff but instead a tariff that tries to get manufacturing to come back to the US - something that is likely never gonna happen in any large numbers.

In short, the Trump admin is misleading the American people by labeling this a reciprocal tariff. That's just a wholly false statement.

Such an entirely ridiculous and unnecessary move, and it's going to come back to bite him. Kiss the midterms goodbye. We are going to lose the House and the Senate. So dumb.

I hope Republicans who didn't skip Economics 101 will block this deal.

---

I'm with you. I could get on board with reciprocal tariffs. If we are instead enacting huge one sided tariffs just to counteract trade deficits, that's insane.

---

muddled thinking. the purpose of tariffs is to address a trade deficit, which will benefit domestic manufacturers and jobs. Whether they are reciprocal or not depends on the nature of the abuse happening, e.g. look at the way China relocates production & transshipments to avoid existing trade restrictions. This is particularly true when it comes to trade subsidies (which many countries do) and non-tariff barriers to trade like the EU VAT.

if you are going to pick this fight you have to smack hard coming out of the gate, to effectively deny entry to our market unless concessions are made. Your opponent, who has investments in an existing supply chain has to make hard decisions about whether he is going to abandon the supply chain or open up his own market to your goods. Sure, the wealthier countries will have at least theoretical options to consider, but it will take years for them to restructure and in the meantime they will incur more damage to their economy than they will inflict on ours (by virtue of having a trade surplus with us).

our position is quite strong and concessions from trade partners are a matter of when not if.

---

So, in other words, this is about damaging other countries' economies more than helping our own. It will take years to change supply chain and manufacturing base, but at least over the course of the next two years we can damage their economies worse than they can damage ours. In the meantime, the American people take it in the shorts.

Such a silly strategy.

---

The silliest strategy of all is doing nothing and accepting the status quo, which is what you are advocating.

Nothing remotely unfair about Trump's policy. If they want access to our markets, they will have to allow us access to theirs. If they bail, they get hurt worse than us. Or they can accept the challenge to compete. Their choice. You do believe competition benefits consumers, right?

WINNING: Trump’s “Reciprocal Tariffs” Trigger Global Response — Multiple Nations Slash Import Duties on U.S. Goods | Jim Hoft, The Gateway Pundit

​Several countries have announced plans to reduce or eliminate tariffs on U.S. imports in response to President Donald Trump’s… pic.twitter.com/hWhuAhRzr9

— Owen Gregorian (@OwenGregorian) April 3, 2025

---

I haven't advocated anything of the sort. I've said repeatedly I have no problem with reciprocal tariffs, but as we both know, that's not what these are.

And let's be honest - Trump could trot out a dog turd and call it filet mignon, and you'd agree with him.

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

---

Trumps plan is to offset the increased costs of tariffs with tax cuts. Sure, we don't know exactly how the trade war will conclude nor do we know exactly which taxes Congress will cut or by how much. But right now, his intentions are more than viable. To the extent that remains true, most of your last few posts are based on a false premise.

---

So we pay $15k more for the Dodge Caravan, but get a couple of thousand dollars back from the IRS in a couple of years when we file our tax returns. Sounds awesome.

Pat Buchanan on trade, 1998:

"To me, the country comes before the economy; and the economy exists for the people." https://t.co/m8tEN2PQ9l pic.twitter.com/JGGsbSWBLN

— Nate Hochman (@njhochman) April 2, 2025

Mothra said:

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whiterock said:

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Mothra said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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Mothra said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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Mothra said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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J.R. said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

---

Trumps plan is to offset the increased costs of tariffs with tax cuts. Sure, we don't know exactly how the trade war will conclude nor do we know exactly which taxes Congress will cut or by how much. But right now, his intentions are more than viable. To the extent that remains true, most of your last few posts are based on a false premise.

---

So we pay $15k more for the Dodge Caravan, but get a couple of thousand dollars back from the IRS in a couple of years when we file our tax returns. Sounds awesome.

---

The alternative is the credit rating of the US crashes due to the national debt doubling our GDP and inflation causes the Dodge Caravan to cost $150k AND you pay thousands of dollars back to the IRS when you file your tax return.

The tariffs give us space to extend the individual and corporate tax cuts from Trump's first term that are about to expire.

Somebody has to be a big boy and make the difficult, big boy decisions... unfortunately we are a country filled with anxious idiots so I expect we'll see President Kamala in 2028.

T&P to KaiBear on 31% the rolex tarrif.

The_barBEARian said:

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Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

---

Trumps plan is to offset the increased costs of tariffs with tax cuts. Sure, we don't know exactly how the trade war will conclude nor do we know exactly which taxes Congress will cut or by how much. But right now, his intentions are more than viable. To the extent that remains true, most of your last few posts are based on a false premise.

---

So we pay $15k more for the Dodge Caravan, but get a couple of thousand dollars back from the IRS in a couple of years when we file our tax returns. Sounds awesome.

---

The alternative is the credit rating of the US crashes due to the national debt doubling our GDP and inflation causes the Dodge Caravan to cost $150k AND you pay thousands of dollars back to the IRS when you file your tax return.

The tariffs give us space to extend the individual and corporate tax cuts from Trump's first term that are about to expire.

Somebody has to be a big boy and make the difficult, big boy decisions... unfortunately we are a country filled with anxious idiots so I expect we'll see President Kamala in 2028.

---

Tariffs are not going to change the course of the country. Not one iota. They will barely dent the debt. So don't be naive.

The only way to reverse course is severe austerity measures - including cuts to welfare, medicare and social security.

Mothra said:

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The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

---

Trumps plan is to offset the increased costs of tariffs with tax cuts. Sure, we don't know exactly how the trade war will conclude nor do we know exactly which taxes Congress will cut or by how much. But right now, his intentions are more than viable. To the extent that remains true, most of your last few posts are based on a false premise.

---

So we pay $15k more for the Dodge Caravan, but get a couple of thousand dollars back from the IRS in a couple of years when we file our tax returns. Sounds awesome.

---

The alternative is the credit rating of the US crashes due to the national debt doubling our GDP and inflation causes the Dodge Caravan to cost $150k AND you pay thousands of dollars back to the IRS when you file your tax return.

The tariffs give us space to extend the individual and corporate tax cuts from Trump's first term that are about to expire.

Somebody has to be a big boy and make the difficult, big boy decisions... unfortunately we are a country filled with anxious idiots so I expect we'll see President Kamala in 2028.

---

Tariffs are not going to change the course of the country. Not one iota. They will barely dent the debt. So don't be naive.

The only way to reverse course is severe austerity measures - including cuts to welfare, medicare and social security.

---

That might turn the course in that the only way I see Trump digging himself out of this hole is to start WW3 to build some unity. It's like he never saw a Ninja movie where Bruce Lee wins because they attack him one at a time not all at once

Mothra said:

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The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

---

Trumps plan is to offset the increased costs of tariffs with tax cuts. Sure, we don't know exactly how the trade war will conclude nor do we know exactly which taxes Congress will cut or by how much. But right now, his intentions are more than viable. To the extent that remains true, most of your last few posts are based on a false premise.

---

So we pay $15k more for the Dodge Caravan, but get a couple of thousand dollars back from the IRS in a couple of years when we file our tax returns. Sounds awesome.

---

The alternative is the credit rating of the US crashes due to the national debt doubling our GDP and inflation causes the Dodge Caravan to cost $150k AND you pay thousands of dollars back to the IRS when you file your tax return.

The tariffs give us space to extend the individual and corporate tax cuts from Trump's first term that are about to expire.

Somebody has to be a big boy and make the difficult, big boy decisions... unfortunately we are a country filled with anxious idiots so I expect we'll see President Kamala in 2028.

---

Tariffs are not going to change the course of the country. Not one iota. They will barely dent the debt. So don't be naive.

---

"No one can stop mass migration from the 3rd world....we have to just accept high levels"

Come on....lets give it some time

I think we will find out the Ivy League professors and DC talking heads were wrong again....

How does that help us? If we reach deals with India and Vietnam so that they lower tariffs if we lower ours, do you think that the manufacturing done in India and Vietnam is coming back to us? That we have products we will now be able to sell to Vietnam and India?

whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Mothra said:

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whiterock said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Mothra said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Not sure if this is accurate across the board or not… Comments seemed to indicate so

This guy cracked the tariff formula:@orthonormalist

It’s simply the nation’s trade deficit with us divided by the nation’s exports to us.

Yes. Really.

Vietnam: Exports 136.6, Imports 13.1
Deficit = 123.5

123.5/136.6 = 90% pic.twitter.com/fDOMoQwzKt

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) April 2, 2025

---

So, when I first saw the list, I thought it was actually a reciprocal tariff based on the tariffs imposed by other countries, and I thought it might not be so bad.

However, if this is truly the formula Trump used - which is based apparently on trade deficits - this is not a reciprocal tariff but instead a tariff that tries to get manufacturing to come back to the US - something that is likely never gonna happen in any large numbers.

In short, the Trump admin is misleading the American people by labeling this a reciprocal tariff. That's just a wholly false statement.

Such an entirely ridiculous and unnecessary move, and it's going to come back to bite him. Kiss the midterms goodbye. We are going to lose the House and the Senate. So dumb.

I hope Republicans who didn't skip Economics 101 will block this deal.

---

I'm with you. I could get on board with reciprocal tariffs. If we are instead enacting huge one sided tariffs just to counteract trade deficits, that's insane.

---

muddled thinking. the purpose of tariffs is to address a trade deficit, which will benefit domestic manufacturers and jobs. Whether they are reciprocal or not depends on the nature of the abuse happening, e.g. look at the way China relocates production & transshipments to avoid existing trade restrictions. This is particularly true when it comes to trade subsidies (which many countries do) and non-tariff barriers to trade like the EU VAT.

if you are going to pick this fight you have to smack hard coming out of the gate, to effectively deny entry to our market unless concessions are made. Your opponent, who has investments in an existing supply chain has to make hard decisions about whether he is going to abandon the supply chain or open up his own market to your goods. Sure, the wealthier countries will have at least theoretical options to consider, but it will take years for them to restructure and in the meantime they will incur more damage to their economy than they will inflict on ours (by virtue of having a trade surplus with us).

our position is quite strong and concessions from trade partners are a matter of when not if.

---

So, in other words, this is about damaging other countries' economies more than helping our own. It will take years to change supply chain and manufacturing base, but at least over the course of the next two years we can damage their economies worse than they can damage ours. In the meantime, the American people take it in the shorts.

Such a silly strategy.

---

The silliest strategy of all is doing nothing and accepting the status quo, which is what you are advocating.

---

There are a lot of people in American who see nothing wrong with the status quo

They walk out of their expensive homes in their expensive neighborhoods and see nothing wrong with the current spoils system or how the economic pie is divided up

They are going to learn (by the ballot box or the bullet) how wrong they are

The red light is flashing...and the American electorate is signaling (potentially dangerously) revolutionary impulses

[America's newly elected president may be a demagogue and a populist, but what he is above all is a revolutionary.
In hoping to make America great again, Donald Trump promises to introduce a fundamental, comprehensive and rapid transformation of American political, economic, social and cultural institutions. Such a massive change is what we mean by the term "revolution."]


https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4976570-america-has-elected-a-revolutionary-will-he-succeed/

---

The aversion to tariffs is a foremost luxury belief of the upper classes. THEIR careers are not impacted by a flood of cheap foreign goods……

---

You simpletons are absolute economic idiots. Making the working and middle class pay for their own economic demise through higher prices is one of the most evil ironies I've ever heard of. The jobs of the future are not manufacturing jobs, and using the false premise of trade deficits as "cheating" to push the job fairy tale is dtraight devious.

If you understood why we have income tax vs tariffs today, it was instituted specifically so the working class didn't have to carry so much of the tax burden, and it could be transferred more to the wealthy.

This joker went to war with the world on trade all at the same time. Straight insanity!

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Not sure if this is accurate across the board or not… Comments seemed to indicate so

This guy cracked the tariff formula:@orthonormalist

It’s simply the nation’s trade deficit with us divided by the nation’s exports to us.

Yes. Really.

Vietnam: Exports 136.6, Imports 13.1
Deficit = 123.5

123.5/136.6 = 90% pic.twitter.com/fDOMoQwzKt

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) April 2, 2025

---

So, when I first saw the list, I thought it was actually a reciprocal tariff based on the tariffs imposed by other countries, and I thought it might not be so bad.

However, if this is truly the formula Trump used - which is based apparently on trade deficits - this is not a reciprocal tariff but instead a tariff that tries to get manufacturing to come back to the US - something that is likely never gonna happen in any large numbers.

In short, the Trump admin is misleading the American people by labeling this a reciprocal tariff. That's just a wholly false statement.

Such an entirely ridiculous and unnecessary move, and it's going to come back to bite him. Kiss the midterms goodbye. We are going to lose the House and the Senate. So dumb.

I hope Republicans who didn't skip Economics 101 will block this deal.

---

I'm with you. I could get on board with reciprocal tariffs. If we are instead enacting huge one sided tariffs just to counteract trade deficits, that's insane.

---

muddled thinking. the purpose of tariffs is to address a trade deficit, which will benefit domestic manufacturers and jobs. Whether they are reciprocal or not depends on the nature of the abuse happening, e.g. look at the way China relocates production & transshipments to avoid existing trade restrictions. This is particularly true when it comes to trade subsidies (which many countries do) and non-tariff barriers to trade like the EU VAT.

if you are going to pick this fight you have to smack hard coming out of the gate, to effectively deny entry to our market unless concessions are made. Your opponent, who has investments in an existing supply chain has to make hard decisions about whether he is going to abandon the supply chain or open up his own market to your goods. Sure, the wealthier countries will have at least theoretical options to consider, but it will take years for them to restructure and in the meantime they will incur more damage to their economy than they will inflict on ours (by virtue of having a trade surplus with us).

our position is quite strong and concessions from trade partners are a matter of when not if.

---

So, in other words, this is about damaging other countries' economies more than helping our own. It will take years to change supply chain and manufacturing base, but at least over the course of the next two years we can damage their economies worse than they can damage ours. In the meantime, the American people take it in the shorts.

Such a silly strategy.

---

The silliest strategy of all is doing nothing and accepting the status quo, which is what you are advocating.

Nothing remotely unfair about Trump's policy. If they want access to our markets, they will have to allow us access to theirs. If they bail, they get hurt worse than us. Or they can accept the challenge to compete. Their choice. You do believe competition benefits consumers, right?

WINNING: Trump’s “Reciprocal Tariffs” Trigger Global Response — Multiple Nations Slash Import Duties on U.S. Goods | Jim Hoft, The Gateway Pundit

​Several countries have announced plans to reduce or eliminate tariffs on U.S. imports in response to President Donald Trump’s… pic.twitter.com/hWhuAhRzr9

— Owen Gregorian (@OwenGregorian) April 3, 2025

---

I haven't advocated anything of the sort. I've said repeatedly I have no problem with reciprocal tariffs, but as we both know, that's not what these are.

And let's be honest - Trump could trot out a dog turd and call it filet mignon, and you'd agree with him.

---

If we're being honest, that's exactly what you're saying If not, then how exactly do you propose to stop the predatory trade practices that's we've tolerated for decades?.

Great succinct explanation here by Batya Sargon of how globalism hollowed out the middle class (and leaves a diminished future for younger generations). What voters want matters. Finally, enough electeds are listening. It might look bad to you, but the working classes are thrilled to see someone FINALLY trying to redress their grievances.

Former Democrat Batya Ungar-Sargon may have delivered the most compelling explanation of Trump’s tariff policies I’ve seen—both logically sound and passionately delivered.👏👏👏 pic.twitter.com/4JTvE88YSn

— I Meme Therefore I Am 🇺🇸 (@ImMeme0) April 3, 2025

Redbrickbear said:

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Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

---

Trumps plan is to offset the increased costs of tariffs with tax cuts. Sure, we don't know exactly how the trade war will conclude nor do we know exactly which taxes Congress will cut or by how much. But right now, his intentions are more than viable. To the extent that remains true, most of your last few posts are based on a false premise.

---

So we pay $15k more for the Dodge Caravan, but get a couple of thousand dollars back from the IRS in a couple of years when we file our tax returns. Sounds awesome.

---

The alternative is the credit rating of the US crashes due to the national debt doubling our GDP and inflation causes the Dodge Caravan to cost $150k AND you pay thousands of dollars back to the IRS when you file your tax return.

The tariffs give us space to extend the individual and corporate tax cuts from Trump's first term that are about to expire.

Somebody has to be a big boy and make the difficult, big boy decisions... unfortunately we are a country filled with anxious idiots so I expect we'll see President Kamala in 2028.

---

Tariffs are not going to change the course of the country. Not one iota. They will barely dent the debt. So don't be naive.

---

"No one can stop mass migration from the 3rd world....we have to just accept high levels"

Come on....lets give it some time

I think we will find out the Ivy League professors and DC talking heads were wrong again....

---

Wrong about what exactly? This isn't even economics anymore. It's more about emotions and international poker

Redbrickbear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

---

Trumps plan is to offset the increased costs of tariffs with tax cuts. Sure, we don't know exactly how the trade war will conclude nor do we know exactly which taxes Congress will cut or by how much. But right now, his intentions are more than viable. To the extent that remains true, most of your last few posts are based on a false premise.

---

So we pay $15k more for the Dodge Caravan, but get a couple of thousand dollars back from the IRS in a couple of years when we file our tax returns. Sounds awesome.

---

The alternative is the credit rating of the US crashes due to the national debt doubling our GDP and inflation causes the Dodge Caravan to cost $150k AND you pay thousands of dollars back to the IRS when you file your tax return.

The tariffs give us space to extend the individual and corporate tax cuts from Trump's first term that are about to expire.

Somebody has to be a big boy and make the difficult, big boy decisions... unfortunately we are a country filled with anxious idiots so I expect we'll see President Kamala in 2028.

---

Tariffs are not going to change the course of the country. Not one iota. They will barely dent the debt. So don't be naive.

---

"No one can stop mass migration from the 3rd world....we have to just accept high levels"

Come on....lets give it some time

I think we will find out the Ivy League professors and DC talking heads were wrong again....

---

Respectfully, that's a false equivalency. Apples to oranges.

In either regard, we are going to be able to find out soon if it works. It won't, but I will try not to say I told you so.

ron.reagan said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

---

Trumps plan is to offset the increased costs of tariffs with tax cuts. Sure, we don't know exactly how the trade war will conclude nor do we know exactly which taxes Congress will cut or by how much. But right now, his intentions are more than viable. To the extent that remains true, most of your last few posts are based on a false premise.

---

So we pay $15k more for the Dodge Caravan, but get a couple of thousand dollars back from the IRS in a couple of years when we file our tax returns. Sounds awesome.

---

The alternative is the credit rating of the US crashes due to the national debt doubling our GDP and inflation causes the Dodge Caravan to cost $150k AND you pay thousands of dollars back to the IRS when you file your tax return.

The tariffs give us space to extend the individual and corporate tax cuts from Trump's first term that are about to expire.

Somebody has to be a big boy and make the difficult, big boy decisions... unfortunately we are a country filled with anxious idiots so I expect we'll see President Kamala in 2028.

---

Tariffs are not going to change the course of the country. Not one iota. They will barely dent the debt. So don't be naive.

---

"No one can stop mass migration from the 3rd world....we have to just accept high levels"

Come on....lets give it some time

I think we will find out the Ivy League professors and DC talking heads were wrong again....

---

Wrong about what exactly? This isn't even economics anymore. It's more about emotions and international poker

---

They were wrong that we could not stop mass migration

And I think they will be proven wrong about Tariffs

Lets give it time

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Not sure if this is accurate across the board or not… Comments seemed to indicate so

This guy cracked the tariff formula:@orthonormalist

It’s simply the nation’s trade deficit with us divided by the nation’s exports to us.

Yes. Really.

Vietnam: Exports 136.6, Imports 13.1
Deficit = 123.5

123.5/136.6 = 90% pic.twitter.com/fDOMoQwzKt

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) April 2, 2025

---

So, when I first saw the list, I thought it was actually a reciprocal tariff based on the tariffs imposed by other countries, and I thought it might not be so bad.

However, if this is truly the formula Trump used - which is based apparently on trade deficits - this is not a reciprocal tariff but instead a tariff that tries to get manufacturing to come back to the US - something that is likely never gonna happen in any large numbers.

In short, the Trump admin is misleading the American people by labeling this a reciprocal tariff. That's just a wholly false statement.

Such an entirely ridiculous and unnecessary move, and it's going to come back to bite him. Kiss the midterms goodbye. We are going to lose the House and the Senate. So dumb.

I hope Republicans who didn't skip Economics 101 will block this deal.

---

I'm with you. I could get on board with reciprocal tariffs. If we are instead enacting huge one sided tariffs just to counteract trade deficits, that's insane.

---

muddled thinking. the purpose of tariffs is to address a trade deficit, which will benefit domestic manufacturers and jobs. Whether they are reciprocal or not depends on the nature of the abuse happening, e.g. look at the way China relocates production & transshipments to avoid existing trade restrictions. This is particularly true when it comes to trade subsidies (which many countries do) and non-tariff barriers to trade like the EU VAT.

if you are going to pick this fight you have to smack hard coming out of the gate, to effectively deny entry to our market unless concessions are made. Your opponent, who has investments in an existing supply chain has to make hard decisions about whether he is going to abandon the supply chain or open up his own market to your goods. Sure, the wealthier countries will have at least theoretical options to consider, but it will take years for them to restructure and in the meantime they will incur more damage to their economy than they will inflict on ours (by virtue of having a trade surplus with us).

our position is quite strong and concessions from trade partners are a matter of when not if.

---

So, in other words, this is about damaging other countries' economies more than helping our own. It will take years to change supply chain and manufacturing base, but at least over the course of the next two years we can damage their economies worse than they can damage ours. In the meantime, the American people take it in the shorts.

Such a silly strategy.

---

The silliest strategy of all is doing nothing and accepting the status quo, which is what you are advocating.

---

There are a lot of people in American who see nothing wrong with the status quo

They walk out of their expensive homes in their expensive neighborhoods and see nothing wrong with the current spoils system or how the economic pie is divided up

They are going to learn (by the ballot box or the bullet) how wrong they are

The red light is flashing...and the American electorate is signaling (potentially dangerously) revolutionary impulses

[America's newly elected president may be a demagogue and a populist, but what he is above all is a revolutionary.
In hoping to make America great again, Donald Trump promises to introduce a fundamental, comprehensive and rapid transformation of American political, economic, social and cultural institutions. Such a massive change is what we mean by the term "revolution."]


https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4976570-america-has-elected-a-revolutionary-will-he-succeed/

---

The aversion to tariffs is a foremost luxury belief of the upper classes. THEIR careers are not impacted by a flood of cheap foreign goods……

---

You simpletons are absolute economic idiots. Making the working and middle class pay for their own economic demise through higher prices is one of the most evil ironies I've ever heard of. The jobs of the future are not manufacturing jobs, and using the false premise of trade deficits as "cheating" to push the job fairy tale is dtraight devious.

If you understood why we have income tax vs tariffs today, it was instituted specifically so the working class didn't have to carry so much of the tax burden, and it could be transferred more to the wealthy.

This joker went to war with the world on trade all at the same time. Straight insanity!

---

I agree with all that. But would highlight the future is manufacturing, just not by humans. If we dominated in this industry we could still bring in a lot of jobs. If we had a much bigger piece of the pie the much smaller staff to run the plants could even out

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Not sure if this is accurate across the board or not… Comments seemed to indicate so

This guy cracked the tariff formula:@orthonormalist

It’s simply the nation’s trade deficit with us divided by the nation’s exports to us.

Yes. Really.

Vietnam: Exports 136.6, Imports 13.1
Deficit = 123.5

123.5/136.6 = 90% pic.twitter.com/fDOMoQwzKt

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) April 2, 2025

---

So, when I first saw the list, I thought it was actually a reciprocal tariff based on the tariffs imposed by other countries, and I thought it might not be so bad.

However, if this is truly the formula Trump used - which is based apparently on trade deficits - this is not a reciprocal tariff but instead a tariff that tries to get manufacturing to come back to the US - something that is likely never gonna happen in any large numbers.

In short, the Trump admin is misleading the American people by labeling this a reciprocal tariff. That's just a wholly false statement.

Such an entirely ridiculous and unnecessary move, and it's going to come back to bite him. Kiss the midterms goodbye. We are going to lose the House and the Senate. So dumb.

I hope Republicans who didn't skip Economics 101 will block this deal.

---

I'm with you. I could get on board with reciprocal tariffs. If we are instead enacting huge one sided tariffs just to counteract trade deficits, that's insane.

---

muddled thinking. the purpose of tariffs is to address a trade deficit, which will benefit domestic manufacturers and jobs. Whether they are reciprocal or not depends on the nature of the abuse happening, e.g. look at the way China relocates production & transshipments to avoid existing trade restrictions. This is particularly true when it comes to trade subsidies (which many countries do) and non-tariff barriers to trade like the EU VAT.

if you are going to pick this fight you have to smack hard coming out of the gate, to effectively deny entry to our market unless concessions are made. Your opponent, who has investments in an existing supply chain has to make hard decisions about whether he is going to abandon the supply chain or open up his own market to your goods. Sure, the wealthier countries will have at least theoretical options to consider, but it will take years for them to restructure and in the meantime they will incur more damage to their economy than they will inflict on ours (by virtue of having a trade surplus with us).

our position is quite strong and concessions from trade partners are a matter of when not if.

---

So, in other words, this is about damaging other countries' economies more than helping our own. It will take years to change supply chain and manufacturing base, but at least over the course of the next two years we can damage their economies worse than they can damage ours. In the meantime, the American people take it in the shorts.

Such a silly strategy.

---

The silliest strategy of all is doing nothing and accepting the status quo, which is what you are advocating.

Nothing remotely unfair about Trump's policy. If they want access to our markets, they will have to allow us access to theirs. If they bail, they get hurt worse than us. Or they can accept the challenge to compete. Their choice. You do believe competition benefits consumers, right?

WINNING: Trump’s “Reciprocal Tariffs” Trigger Global Response — Multiple Nations Slash Import Duties on U.S. Goods | Jim Hoft, The Gateway Pundit

​Several countries have announced plans to reduce or eliminate tariffs on U.S. imports in response to President Donald Trump’s… pic.twitter.com/hWhuAhRzr9

— Owen Gregorian (@OwenGregorian) April 3, 2025

---

I haven't advocated anything of the sort. I've said repeatedly I have no problem with reciprocal tariffs, but as we both know, that's not what these are.

And let's be honest - Trump could trot out a dog turd and call it filet mignon, and you'd agree with him.

---

If we're being honest, that's exactly what you're saying If not, then how exactly do you propose to stop the predatory trade practices that's we've tolerated for decades?.

Great succinct explanation here by Batya Sargon of how globalism hollowed out the middle class (and leaves a diminished future for younger generations). What voters want matters. Finally, enough electeds are listening. It might look bad to you, but the working classes are thrilled to see someone FINALLY trying to redress their grievances.

Former Democrat Batya Ungar-Sargon may have delivered the most compelling explanation of Trump’s tariff policies I’ve seen—both logically sound and passionately delivered.👏👏👏 pic.twitter.com/4JTvE88YSn

— I Meme Therefore I Am 🇺🇸 (@ImMeme0) April 3, 2025

---

When I told you I was for reciprocal tariffs, did you not believe me?

Redbrickbear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

---

Trumps plan is to offset the increased costs of tariffs with tax cuts. Sure, we don't know exactly how the trade war will conclude nor do we know exactly which taxes Congress will cut or by how much. But right now, his intentions are more than viable. To the extent that remains true, most of your last few posts are based on a false premise.

---

So we pay $15k more for the Dodge Caravan, but get a couple of thousand dollars back from the IRS in a couple of years when we file our tax returns. Sounds awesome.

---

The alternative is the credit rating of the US crashes due to the national debt doubling our GDP and inflation causes the Dodge Caravan to cost $150k AND you pay thousands of dollars back to the IRS when you file your tax return.

The tariffs give us space to extend the individual and corporate tax cuts from Trump's first term that are about to expire.

Somebody has to be a big boy and make the difficult, big boy decisions... unfortunately we are a country filled with anxious idiots so I expect we'll see President Kamala in 2028.

---

Tariffs are not going to change the course of the country. Not one iota. They will barely dent the debt. So don't be naive.

---

"No one can stop mass migration from the 3rd world....we have to just accept high levels"

Come on....lets give it some time

I think we will find out the Ivy League professors and DC talking heads were wrong again....

---

Wrong about what exactly? This isn't even economics anymore. It's more about emotions and international poker

---

They were wrong that we could not stop mass migration

And I think they will be proven wrong about Tariffs

Lets give it time

---

I don't think anyone actually believed that though.

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Not sure if this is accurate across the board or not… Comments seemed to indicate so

This guy cracked the tariff formula:@orthonormalist

It’s simply the nation’s trade deficit with us divided by the nation’s exports to us.

Yes. Really.

Vietnam: Exports 136.6, Imports 13.1
Deficit = 123.5

123.5/136.6 = 90% pic.twitter.com/fDOMoQwzKt

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) April 2, 2025

---

So, when I first saw the list, I thought it was actually a reciprocal tariff based on the tariffs imposed by other countries, and I thought it might not be so bad.

However, if this is truly the formula Trump used - which is based apparently on trade deficits - this is not a reciprocal tariff but instead a tariff that tries to get manufacturing to come back to the US - something that is likely never gonna happen in any large numbers.

In short, the Trump admin is misleading the American people by labeling this a reciprocal tariff. That's just a wholly false statement.

Such an entirely ridiculous and unnecessary move, and it's going to come back to bite him. Kiss the midterms goodbye. We are going to lose the House and the Senate. So dumb.

I hope Republicans who didn't skip Economics 101 will block this deal.

---

I'm with you. I could get on board with reciprocal tariffs. If we are instead enacting huge one sided tariffs just to counteract trade deficits, that's insane.

---

muddled thinking. the purpose of tariffs is to address a trade deficit, which will benefit domestic manufacturers and jobs. Whether they are reciprocal or not depends on the nature of the abuse happening, e.g. look at the way China relocates production & transshipments to avoid existing trade restrictions. This is particularly true when it comes to trade subsidies (which many countries do) and non-tariff barriers to trade like the EU VAT.

if you are going to pick this fight you have to smack hard coming out of the gate, to effectively deny entry to our market unless concessions are made. Your opponent, who has investments in an existing supply chain has to make hard decisions about whether he is going to abandon the supply chain or open up his own market to your goods. Sure, the wealthier countries will have at least theoretical options to consider, but it will take years for them to restructure and in the meantime they will incur more damage to their economy than they will inflict on ours (by virtue of having a trade surplus with us).

our position is quite strong and concessions from trade partners are a matter of when not if.

---

So, in other words, this is about damaging other countries' economies more than helping our own. It will take years to change supply chain and manufacturing base, but at least over the course of the next two years we can damage their economies worse than they can damage ours. In the meantime, the American people take it in the shorts.

Such a silly strategy.

---

The silliest strategy of all is doing nothing and accepting the status quo, which is what you are advocating.

---

There are a lot of people in American who see nothing wrong with the status quo

They walk out of their expensive homes in their expensive neighborhoods and see nothing wrong with the current spoils system or how the economic pie is divided up

They are going to learn (by the ballot box or the bullet) how wrong they are

The red light is flashing...and the American electorate is signaling (potentially dangerously) revolutionary impulses

[America's newly elected president may be a demagogue and a populist, but what he is above all is a revolutionary.
In hoping to make America great again, Donald Trump promises to introduce a fundamental, comprehensive and rapid transformation of American political, economic, social and cultural institutions. Such a massive change is what we mean by the term "revolution."]


https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4976570-america-has-elected-a-revolutionary-will-he-succeed/

---

The aversion to tariffs is a foremost luxury belief of the upper classes. THEIR careers are not impacted by a flood of cheap foreign goods……

---

You simpletons are absolute economic idiots. Making the working and middle class pay for their own economic demise through higher prices is one of the most evil ironies I've ever heard of.

---

Their economic demise was the closing down of 60,000 factories and the importing in of 40-50 million 3rd worlders to work for semi-slave wages

What multi-million dollar home in Highland Park are you posting from to be this blind to the economic realities of modern America.

Get out of the Texas Triangle and drive through America sometime


[U.S. manufacturing employment plummeted by one-third, and 60,000 U.S. factories were closed, just between 1995 and 2010]

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Not sure if this is accurate across the board or not… Comments seemed to indicate so

This guy cracked the tariff formula:@orthonormalist

It’s simply the nation’s trade deficit with us divided by the nation’s exports to us.

Yes. Really.

Vietnam: Exports 136.6, Imports 13.1
Deficit = 123.5

123.5/136.6 = 90% pic.twitter.com/fDOMoQwzKt

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) April 2, 2025

---

So, when I first saw the list, I thought it was actually a reciprocal tariff based on the tariffs imposed by other countries, and I thought it might not be so bad.

However, if this is truly the formula Trump used - which is based apparently on trade deficits - this is not a reciprocal tariff but instead a tariff that tries to get manufacturing to come back to the US - something that is likely never gonna happen in any large numbers.

In short, the Trump admin is misleading the American people by labeling this a reciprocal tariff. That's just a wholly false statement.

Such an entirely ridiculous and unnecessary move, and it's going to come back to bite him. Kiss the midterms goodbye. We are going to lose the House and the Senate. So dumb.

I hope Republicans who didn't skip Economics 101 will block this deal.

---

I'm with you. I could get on board with reciprocal tariffs. If we are instead enacting huge one sided tariffs just to counteract trade deficits, that's insane.

---

muddled thinking. the purpose of tariffs is to address a trade deficit, which will benefit domestic manufacturers and jobs. Whether they are reciprocal or not depends on the nature of the abuse happening, e.g. look at the way China relocates production & transshipments to avoid existing trade restrictions. This is particularly true when it comes to trade subsidies (which many countries do) and non-tariff barriers to trade like the EU VAT.

if you are going to pick this fight you have to smack hard coming out of the gate, to effectively deny entry to our market unless concessions are made. Your opponent, who has investments in an existing supply chain has to make hard decisions about whether he is going to abandon the supply chain or open up his own market to your goods. Sure, the wealthier countries will have at least theoretical options to consider, but it will take years for them to restructure and in the meantime they will incur more damage to their economy than they will inflict on ours (by virtue of having a trade surplus with us).

our position is quite strong and concessions from trade partners are a matter of when not if.

---

So, in other words, this is about damaging other countries' economies more than helping our own. It will take years to change supply chain and manufacturing base, but at least over the course of the next two years we can damage their economies worse than they can damage ours. In the meantime, the American people take it in the shorts.

Such a silly strategy.

---

The silliest strategy of all is doing nothing and accepting the status quo, which is what you are advocating.

---

There are a lot of people in American who see nothing wrong with the status quo

They walk out of their expensive homes in their expensive neighborhoods and see nothing wrong with the current spoils system or how the economic pie is divided up

They are going to learn (by the ballot box or the bullet) how wrong they are

The red light is flashing...and the American electorate is signaling (potentially dangerously) revolutionary impulses

[America's newly elected president may be a demagogue and a populist, but what he is above all is a revolutionary.
In hoping to make America great again, Donald Trump promises to introduce a fundamental, comprehensive and rapid transformation of American political, economic, social and cultural institutions. Such a massive change is what we mean by the term "revolution."]


https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4976570-america-has-elected-a-revolutionary-will-he-succeed/

---

The aversion to tariffs is a foremost luxury belief of the upper classes. THEIR careers are not impacted by a flood of cheap foreign goods……

---

You simpletons are absolute economic idiots. Making the working and middle class pay for their own economic demise through higher prices is one of the most evil ironies I've ever heard of. The jobs of the future are not manufacturing jobs, and using the false premise of trade deficits as "cheating" to push the job fairy tale is dtraight devious.

If you understood why we have income tax vs tariffs today, it was instituted specifically so the working class didn't have to carry so much of the tax burden, and it could be transferred more to the wealthy.

This joker went to war with the world on trade all at the same time. Straight insanity!

---

Recto-cranial inversion there. We went to an income tax because we were a manufacturing powerhouse running consistent trade surpluses (which limits tax base if one depends on tariffs). But we've run consistently trade deficits since the 1970's (which creates the converse problem). So cutting payroll taxes and using tariffs to offset directly benefits WORKING CLASSES and fosters more manufacturing jobs (which pay more than flipping burgers and doing ride-share).

Doesn't matter how smart one is if one works so hard to remain obtuse on macroeconomics. Note Sargon' reference in my prior post about the distribution of GDP being overweighted in finance and real estate. Do you seriously mean to suggest that it's a good idea to become a nation whose business model is rent-seeking? That's one consequence of continuing the globalist model.

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

---

Trumps plan is to offset the increased costs of tariffs with tax cuts. Sure, we don't know exactly how the trade war will conclude nor do we know exactly which taxes Congress will cut or by how much. But right now, his intentions are more than viable. To the extent that remains true, most of your last few posts are based on a false premise.

---

So we pay $15k more for the Dodge Caravan, but get a couple of thousand dollars back from the IRS in a couple of years when we file our tax returns. Sounds awesome.

---

The alternative is the credit rating of the US crashes due to the national debt doubling our GDP and inflation causes the Dodge Caravan to cost $150k AND you pay thousands of dollars back to the IRS when you file your tax return.

The tariffs give us space to extend the individual and corporate tax cuts from Trump's first term that are about to expire.

Somebody has to be a big boy and make the difficult, big boy decisions... unfortunately we are a country filled with anxious idiots so I expect we'll see President Kamala in 2028.

---

Tariffs are not going to change the course of the country. Not one iota. They will barely dent the debt. So don't be naive.

The only way to reverse course is severe austerity measures - including cuts to welfare, medicare and social security.

---

How are we going to accomplish that when you cant even handle a 5% drop in the stock market without losing your mind?... also you forget to add the trillion dollars a year spent on defense that needs severe cost cutting.

Austerity measures would also slow economic growth.

We are stuck in a no-win scenario.

The status quo means utter destruction and the sooner we make difficult choices and course correct the less painful things have to be.

Tariffs should at minimum offset the extension of the Trump tax cuts that we have been enjoying over the last decade.

Would you rather we had no new tariffs but let the Trump tax cuts expire and revert back to the personal and corperate tax rates under Obama?

You seem to live in this fantasy that we can continue to operate massive billion dollar trade deficits while piling trillions onto our national debt every year and nothing bad will happen.

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

---

Trumps plan is to offset the increased costs of tariffs with tax cuts. Sure, we don't know exactly how the trade war will conclude nor do we know exactly which taxes Congress will cut or by how much. But right now, his intentions are more than viable. To the extent that remains true, most of your last few posts are based on a false premise.

---

So we pay $15k more for the Dodge Caravan, but get a couple of thousand dollars back from the IRS in a couple of years when we file our tax returns. Sounds awesome.

---

The alternative is the credit rating of the US crashes due to the national debt doubling our GDP and inflation causes the Dodge Caravan to cost $150k AND you pay thousands of dollars back to the IRS when you file your tax return.

The tariffs give us space to extend the individual and corporate tax cuts from Trump's first term that are about to expire.

Somebody has to be a big boy and make the difficult, big boy decisions... unfortunately we are a country filled with anxious idiots so I expect we'll see President Kamala in 2028.

---

Tariffs are not going to change the course of the country. Not one iota. They will barely dent the debt. So don't be naive.

The only way to reverse course is severe austerity measures - including cuts to welfare, medicare and social security.

---

How are we going to accomplish that when you cant even handle a 5% drop in the stock market without losing your mind?... also you forget to add the trillion dollars a year spent on defense that needs severe cost cutting.

Austerity measures would also slow economic growth.

We are stuck in a no-win scenario.

The status quo means utter destruction and the sooner we make difficult choices and course correct the less painful things have to be.

Tariffs should at minimum offset the extension of the Trump tax cuts that we have been enjoying over the last decade.

Would you rather we had no new tariffs but let the Trump tax cuts expire and revert back to the personal and corperate tax rates under Obama?

You seem to live in this fantasy that we can continue to operate massive billion dollar trade deficits while piling trillions onto our national debt every year and nothing bad will happen.

---

You asked my opinion on how to fix the issue, and I gave it to you. Without severe austerity measures, it won't be fixed.

Your error is believing these tariffs are going to make a damn bit of difference.

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

J.R. said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Trump is using the tariffs to pay down our national debt.

Our national debt is a national crisis and our debt-to-GDP has never been greater.

If nothing is done, the interest on our debt will match our GDP in another decade.

You have a choice:

1) See your income and capital gains taxes go up to 50%(see the tax rate under Eisenhower) to attempt to save this country and pay down the debt

2) Use tariffs to pay down the debt and try to keep taxes relatively flat on the people who work and are productive citizens

3) Default on the debt, destroy the value of the USD, and balkanize the country

Now if Trump starts bombing Iran and getting us involved in another major war fighting Israel's enemies I am going to lose it! It was wasting American blood and treasure fighting Israel's wars in the middle east that sucked the wealth and prosperity out of this country and put this country in such a dire economic trajectory in the first place

---

Tariffs will NOT pay down debt, period.

---

Tariffs will quite literally generate money that will be used to pay down the debt.

They wont get us out of debt, but they will help.

---

With American consumers footing the bill.

Definitely a recipe for success come the midterms. Hey, it now costs $60k instead of $30k to purchase a minivan, but at least we helped pay down the debt! Let's vote Republican!

---

Should we abolish the sales tax?

---

So, the idea is that this is like a sales tax. Ergo, we should have no issue with this additional tax on top of same?

---

Well I disagree with you that American consumers will necessarily "foot the bill" on tariffs. In some instances costs will increase but there wont be this universal cost increase on all goods.

And to the extent American consumers do "foot the bill" with regard to these tariffs, it is no different than the sales tax we already pay here in Texas.

If Trump is using these tariffs to bring down the debt without raising taxes, then I fully support them because I prefer a consumption tax to an income tax or capital gains tax increase. If our national debt is down or at least flat by the time Trump's term ends without Eisenhower era tax hikes, we should build a giant monument in Trumps honor.

---

Not a chance in hell this makes any serious dent in the national debt. If I felt it would, I might be more on board, but it's just not going to happen. That will be due in part to the declining demand associated with what will become luxury items. The unintended consequence of tariffs is less demand.

The fact we have a sales tax in place is really completely irrelevant to whether having a consumption tax in place on top of a sales tax and income tax is a good idea. One does not justify the other.

Every economist I've seen who has looked at the tariffs has said Americans will indeed foot the bill. That's almost always the way it goes with tariffs. It's what happened to the automobile industry in the 60's and 70's, Americans almost exclusively paid the tab. There's no reason to believe this will be the exception to the norm.

---

Trumps plan is to offset the increased costs of tariffs with tax cuts. Sure, we don't know exactly how the trade war will conclude nor do we know exactly which taxes Congress will cut or by how much. But right now, his intentions are more than viable. To the extent that remains true, most of your last few posts are based on a false premise.

---

So we pay $15k more for the Dodge Caravan, but get a couple of thousand dollars back from the IRS in a couple of years when we file our tax returns. Sounds awesome.

---

The alternative is the credit rating of the US crashes due to the national debt doubling our GDP and inflation causes the Dodge Caravan to cost $150k AND you pay thousands of dollars back to the IRS when you file your tax return.

The tariffs give us space to extend the individual and corporate tax cuts from Trump's first term that are about to expire.

Somebody has to be a big boy and make the difficult, big boy decisions... unfortunately we are a country filled with anxious idiots so I expect we'll see President Kamala in 2028.

---

Tariffs are not going to change the course of the country. Not one iota. They will barely dent the debt. So don't be naive.

The only way to reverse course is severe austerity measures - including cuts to welfare, medicare and social security.

---

How are we going to accomplish that when you cant even handle a 5% drop in the stock market without losing your mind?... also you forget to add the trillion dollars a year spent on defense that needs severe cost cutting.

Austerity measures would also slow economic growth.

We are stuck in a no-win scenario.

The status quo means utter destruction and the sooner we make difficult choices and course correct the less painful things have to be.

Tariffs should at minimum offset the extension of the Trump tax cuts that we have been enjoying over the last decade.

Would you rather we had no new tariffs but let the Trump tax cuts expire and revert back to the personal and corperate tax rates under Obama?

You seem to live in this fantasy that we can continue to operate massive billion dollar trade deficits while piling trillions onto our national debt every year and nothing bad will happen.

---

You asked my opinion on how to fix the issue, and I gave it to you. Without severe austerity measures, it won't be fixed.

Your error is believing these tariffs are going to make a damn bit of difference.

---

I am 100% with you on the cost-cutting and reducing the size of government... but if this country doesn't even have the political will to accept a 10% flat tariff on foreign goods then cutting social welfare programs is a complete pipe dream.

I am personally annoyed Trump increased defense spending instead of cutting it in half.

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Not sure if this is accurate across the board or not… Comments seemed to indicate so

This guy cracked the tariff formula:@orthonormalist

It’s simply the nation’s trade deficit with us divided by the nation’s exports to us.

Yes. Really.

Vietnam: Exports 136.6, Imports 13.1
Deficit = 123.5

123.5/136.6 = 90% pic.twitter.com/fDOMoQwzKt

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) April 2, 2025

---

So, when I first saw the list, I thought it was actually a reciprocal tariff based on the tariffs imposed by other countries, and I thought it might not be so bad.

However, if this is truly the formula Trump used - which is based apparently on trade deficits - this is not a reciprocal tariff but instead a tariff that tries to get manufacturing to come back to the US - something that is likely never gonna happen in any large numbers.

In short, the Trump admin is misleading the American people by labeling this a reciprocal tariff. That's just a wholly false statement.

Such an entirely ridiculous and unnecessary move, and it's going to come back to bite him. Kiss the midterms goodbye. We are going to lose the House and the Senate. So dumb.

I hope Republicans who didn't skip Economics 101 will block this deal.

---

I'm with you. I could get on board with reciprocal tariffs. If we are instead enacting huge one sided tariffs just to counteract trade deficits, that's insane.

---

muddled thinking. the purpose of tariffs is to address a trade deficit, which will benefit domestic manufacturers and jobs. Whether they are reciprocal or not depends on the nature of the abuse happening, e.g. look at the way China relocates production & transshipments to avoid existing trade restrictions. This is particularly true when it comes to trade subsidies (which many countries do) and non-tariff barriers to trade like the EU VAT.

if you are going to pick this fight you have to smack hard coming out of the gate, to effectively deny entry to our market unless concessions are made. Your opponent, who has investments in an existing supply chain has to make hard decisions about whether he is going to abandon the supply chain or open up his own market to your goods. Sure, the wealthier countries will have at least theoretical options to consider, but it will take years for them to restructure and in the meantime they will incur more damage to their economy than they will inflict on ours (by virtue of having a trade surplus with us).

our position is quite strong and concessions from trade partners are a matter of when not if.

---

So, in other words, this is about damaging other countries' economies more than helping our own. It will take years to change supply chain and manufacturing base, but at least over the course of the next two years we can damage their economies worse than they can damage ours. In the meantime, the American people take it in the shorts.

Such a silly strategy.

---

The silliest strategy of all is doing nothing and accepting the status quo, which is what you are advocating.

---

There are a lot of people in American who see nothing wrong with the status quo

They walk out of their expensive homes in their expensive neighborhoods and see nothing wrong with the current spoils system or how the economic pie is divided up

They are going to learn (by the ballot box or the bullet) how wrong they are

The red light is flashing...and the American electorate is signaling (potentially dangerously) revolutionary impulses

[America's newly elected president may be a demagogue and a populist, but what he is above all is a revolutionary.
In hoping to make America great again, Donald Trump promises to introduce a fundamental, comprehensive and rapid transformation of American political, economic, social and cultural institutions. Such a massive change is what we mean by the term "revolution."]


https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4976570-america-has-elected-a-revolutionary-will-he-succeed/

---

The aversion to tariffs is a foremost luxury belief of the upper classes. THEIR careers are not impacted by a flood of cheap foreign goods……

---

You simpletons are absolute economic idiots. Making the working and middle class pay for their own economic demise through higher prices is one of the most evil ironies I've ever heard of.

---

Their economic demise was the closing down of 60,000 factories and the importing in of 40-50 million 3rd worlders to work for semi-slave wages

What multi-million dollar home in Highland Park are you posting from to be this blind to the economic realities of modern America.

Get out of the Texas Triangle and drive through America sometime


[U.S. manufacturing employment plummeted by one-third, and 60,000 U.S. factories were closed, just between 1995 and 2010]

---

I'm posting from India (have the site manager check my IP address) with a better perspective on what economic difficulty is than you'd ever understand. Tech killed and is going to continue to kill manufacturing jobs. I want manufacturing to come back. But it's a capital business not a labor business anymore. We can compete with our investment in it, not some nostalgic link to pre WW2 labor perspectives.

Save your workers of the world unite speech for your socialist club.

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Not sure if this is accurate across the board or not… Comments seemed to indicate so

This guy cracked the tariff formula:@orthonormalist

It’s simply the nation’s trade deficit with us divided by the nation’s exports to us.

Yes. Really.

Vietnam: Exports 136.6, Imports 13.1
Deficit = 123.5

123.5/136.6 = 90% pic.twitter.com/fDOMoQwzKt

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) April 2, 2025

---

So, when I first saw the list, I thought it was actually a reciprocal tariff based on the tariffs imposed by other countries, and I thought it might not be so bad.

However, if this is truly the formula Trump used - which is based apparently on trade deficits - this is not a reciprocal tariff but instead a tariff that tries to get manufacturing to come back to the US - something that is likely never gonna happen in any large numbers.

In short, the Trump admin is misleading the American people by labeling this a reciprocal tariff. That's just a wholly false statement.

Such an entirely ridiculous and unnecessary move, and it's going to come back to bite him. Kiss the midterms goodbye. We are going to lose the House and the Senate. So dumb.

I hope Republicans who didn't skip Economics 101 will block this deal.

---

I'm with you. I could get on board with reciprocal tariffs. If we are instead enacting huge one sided tariffs just to counteract trade deficits, that's insane.

---

muddled thinking. the purpose of tariffs is to address a trade deficit, which will benefit domestic manufacturers and jobs. Whether they are reciprocal or not depends on the nature of the abuse happening, e.g. look at the way China relocates production & transshipments to avoid existing trade restrictions. This is particularly true when it comes to trade subsidies (which many countries do) and non-tariff barriers to trade like the EU VAT.

if you are going to pick this fight you have to smack hard coming out of the gate, to effectively deny entry to our market unless concessions are made. Your opponent, who has investments in an existing supply chain has to make hard decisions about whether he is going to abandon the supply chain or open up his own market to your goods. Sure, the wealthier countries will have at least theoretical options to consider, but it will take years for them to restructure and in the meantime they will incur more damage to their economy than they will inflict on ours (by virtue of having a trade surplus with us).

our position is quite strong and concessions from trade partners are a matter of when not if.

---

So, in other words, this is about damaging other countries' economies more than helping our own. It will take years to change supply chain and manufacturing base, but at least over the course of the next two years we can damage their economies worse than they can damage ours. In the meantime, the American people take it in the shorts.

Such a silly strategy.

---

The silliest strategy of all is doing nothing and accepting the status quo, which is what you are advocating.

---

There are a lot of people in American who see nothing wrong with the status quo

They walk out of their expensive homes in their expensive neighborhoods and see nothing wrong with the current spoils system or how the economic pie is divided up

They are going to learn (by the ballot box or the bullet) how wrong they are

The red light is flashing...and the American electorate is signaling (potentially dangerously) revolutionary impulses

[America's newly elected president may be a demagogue and a populist, but what he is above all is a revolutionary.
In hoping to make America great again, Donald Trump promises to introduce a fundamental, comprehensive and rapid transformation of American political, economic, social and cultural institutions. Such a massive change is what we mean by the term "revolution."]


https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4976570-america-has-elected-a-revolutionary-will-he-succeed/

---

The aversion to tariffs is a foremost luxury belief of the upper classes. THEIR careers are not impacted by a flood of cheap foreign goods……

---

You simpletons are absolute economic idiots. Making the working and middle class pay for their own economic demise through higher prices is one of the most evil ironies I've ever heard of.

---

Their economic demise was the closing down of 60,000 factories and the importing in of 40-50 million 3rd worlders to work for semi-slave wages

What multi-million dollar home in Highland Park are you posting from to be this blind to the economic realities of modern America.

Get out of the Texas Triangle and drive through America sometime


[U.S. manufacturing employment plummeted by one-third, and 60,000 U.S. factories were closed, just between 1995 and 2010]

---

I am guessing that "ATL Bear" doesn't live near Highland Park.

There is an absolute myth that America's lower and middle classes (economically speaking) are suffering like never before. Access to medical care, the safety net, and ease of life have never been higher. We have severe challenges, but of the scores of billions of human souls that ever existed, almost all of them would prefer to have lived in America, circa 2025.

Success in America requires education, ambition, hard work, and a responsible lifestyle. If you have and do those things, you almost certainly will have a great life. It is not my grandfather's economy or even my father's economy. But it is still a great place to live. I wish we would quit pretending otherwise.