Tariffs

909 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 1 hr ago by Doc Holliday
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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These comments from Reagan from April 1987 ring true:
Quote:

You see, at first, when someone says, ``Let's impose tariffs on foreign imports,'' it looks like they're doing the patriotic thing by protecting American products and jobs. And sometimes for a short while it works -- but only for a short time. What eventually occurs is: First, homegrown industries start relying on government protection in the form of high tariffs. They stop competing and stop making the innovative management and technological changes they need to succeed in world markets. And then, while all this is going on, something even worse occurs. High tariffs inevitably lead to retaliation by foreign countries and the triggering of fierce trade wars. The result is more and more tariffs, higher and higher trade barriers, and less and less competition. So, soon, because of the prices made artificially high by tariffs that subsidize inefficiency and poor management, people stop buying. Then the worst happens: Markets shrink and collapse; businesses and industries shut down; and millions of people lose their jobs.

The memory of all this occurring back in the thirties made me determined when I came to Washington to spare the American people the protectionist legislation that destroys prosperity. Now, it hasn't always been easy. There are those in this Congress, just as there were back in the thirties, who want to go for the quick political advantage, who will risk America's prosperity for the sake of a short-term appeal to some special interest group...
The US steel industry hasn't gotten more competitive since tariffs.
Last year, Nippon Steel tried to enter the US by purchasing US Steel and investing massively to make it more competitive. What happened? US steel producers banded together and lobbied the government to block the merger and keep out a real competitor. Sadly, that worked.
Trump has promised subsidies.
It's now an industry that's beholden to government largess that has no reason to compete, exactly how Ronald Reagan saw it happening.






Former President Ronald Reagan once cautioned, "High tariffs inevitably lead to retaliation… and less and less competition," but Donald Trump is pushing forward with steep trade barriers anyway, and U.S. tech companies could be among the hardest hit.
What Happened: In his April 1987 radio address, President Reagan made a passionate case against protectionism, warning that tariffs would "hurt every American worker and consumer," drive prices higher, and ultimately lead to job losses.
While it may look like they're doing the patriotic thing, Reagan said, over the long run such trade barriers hurt every American worker and consumer.











RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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Good article and spot on! With tariffs and protectionist policies, less money is spent on innovation and plant improvements. It makes U.S. companies lazy. Less competition and more money funneled to the USW. This is actually nothing new. The more things change, the more they stay the same!
Bitcoin, $Trumpcoin, or $Fartcoin? That is the question.
Mitch Blood Green
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Anyone who knows what's going on is smarter than me. We are no longer guided by "traditional" thinking.

Smoot Hawley?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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Smoot Howley indeed.

Those that forget the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.
ScottS
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Smoot Howley indeed.

Those that forget the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.
Ok so what about countries that ALREADY have big tariffs on us? Are you saying SMOOT HOWLEY to them? April 2nd Trump is putting reciprocal tariffs to correct this.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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Have you studied the famous Smoot Howley and Fordney NcCumber tariffs that kept us from plunging into a severe depression?
El Oso
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ScottS said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Smoot Howley indeed.

Those that forget the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.
Ok so what about countries that ALREADY have big tariffs on us? Are you saying SMOOT HOWLEY to them? April 2nd Trump is putting reciprocal tariffs to correct this.
I think he's saying it would be a dumb idea to do Smoot Howley again.

I'm looking at the World Bank List of 137 countries' trade-weighted average tariff rates As a point of reference, the overwhelming majority of countries that have a higher trade-weighted average than us (1.5) are countries few Americans could even point to on a map or would not consider a great American trade partner anyway.

These are the top five countries that are:
Mexico is 4.8
China is 3.1
India is 11.5
Japan is 1.6
Most EU countries are at 1.3, which is lower than us, but the United Kingdom is 3.1

I'd probably argue for hitting India with reciprocal tariffs, and re-work deals with China before starting a tariff war there. I'd back off deals with the UK and use all other EU countries instead if they didn't want to match their fellow countries. And if I was going to start a tariff war with one of the two countries that touches us, I would start with Mexico and leave Canada alone (they score a 1.4).

Mitch Blood Green
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El Oso said:

ScottS said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Smoot Howley indeed.

Those that forget the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.
Ok so what about countries that ALREADY have big tariffs on us? Are you saying SMOOT HOWLEY to them? April 2nd Trump is putting reciprocal tariffs to correct this.
I think he's saying it would be a dumb idea to do Smoot Howley again.

I'm looking at the World Bank List of 137 countries' trade-weighted average tariff rates As a point of reference, the overwhelming majority of countries that have a higher trade-weighted average than us (1.5) are countries few Americans could even point to on a map or would not consider a great American trade partner anyway.

These are the top five countries that are:
Mexico is 4.8
China is 3.1
India is 11.5
Japan is 1.6
Most EU countries are at 1.3, which is lower than us, but the United Kingdom is 3.1

I'd probably argue for hitting India with reciprocal tariffs, and re-work deals with China before starting a tariff war there. I'd back off deals with the UK and use all other EU countries instead if they didn't want to match their fellow countries. And if I was going to start a tariff war with one of the two countries that touches us, I would start with Mexico and leave Canada alone (they score a 1.4).




Used to be friends would discuss their disagreements.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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Thanks LSO.

Scott, If other countries want to try to solve their problems let them use the self defeating SM type rules. They nudged the USA into its worse depression and will do the sam3. to others. A tariff is a tax on your own people
Doc Holliday
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Thanks LSO.

Scott, If other countries want to try to solve their problems let them use the self defeating SM type rules. They nudged the USA into its worse depression and will do the sam3. to others. A tariff is a tax on your own people
NO they are not. You have to pay a tax on everything you buy.

A tariff makes foreign products more expensive. That's it. The more reliant on those products we are, the harder it is to deal with.

Tariffs on imports are designed to raise the price of imported goods and services to discourage consumption. The intention is for citizens to buy local products instead, thereby stimulating their country's economy. Tariffs therefore provide an incentive to develop production and replace imports with domestic products.
Fre3dombear
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CPI was greatest it's been in years
. Oil prices have collapsed. I got 5 dozen eggs at Costco for $20

We'll see where things go because the democrats refuse as always to reach across the aisle and reduce spending
ScottS
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Fre3dombear said:

CPI was greatest it's been in years
. Oil prices have collapsed. I got 5 dozen eggs at Costco for $20

We'll see where things go because the democrats refuse as always to reach across the aisle and reduce spending

And yet if you tune into MSLSD you'd never know.
Fre3dombear
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I paid under $2.30 a gallon for gasoline. Amazing pay raise for everyone already

Yep. People have proven how feeble minded they are. They just do as they're told. They vax. They say all is great with insane inflation. They say DEI no big deal as companies collapse all around them. They want men in women's bathroom and locker rooms and sports. They're all smarter than orange man. Clearly. And definitely better at making money and finding wives.

ATL Bear
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Doc Holliday said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Thanks LSO.

Scott, If other countries want to try to solve their problems let them use the self defeating SM type rules. They nudged the USA into its worse depression and will do the sam3. to others. A tariff is a tax on your own people
NO they are not. You have to pay a tax on everything you buy.

A tariff makes foreign products more expensive. That's it. The more reliant on those products we are, the harder it is to deal with.

Tariffs on imports are designed to raise the price of imported goods and services to discourage consumption. The intention is for citizens to buy local products instead, thereby stimulating their country's economy. Tariffs therefore provide an incentive to develop production and replace imports with domestic products.
Wrong. They are a tax. Falls under Duties and Imposts under section 8 of the constitution.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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Doc Holliday said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Thanks LSO.

Scott, If other countries want to try to solve their problems let them use the self defeating SM type rules. They nudged the USA into its worse depression and will do the sam3. to others. A tariff is a tax on your own people
NO they are not. You have to pay a tax on everything you buy.

A tariff makes foreign products more expensive. That's it. The more reliant on those products we are, the harder it is to deal with.

Tariffs on imports are designed to raise the price of imported goods and services to consumption. The intention is for citizens to buy local products instead, thereby stimulating their country's economy. Tariffs therefore provide an incentive to develop production and replace imports with domestic products.
Did you listen to Reagan? I know he was before your time but he did understand tariffs. Tariffs provide no incentive. They force consumers to buy a more expensive products.
FLBear5630
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Mitch Blood Green said:

El Oso said:

ScottS said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Smoot Howley indeed.

Those that forget the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.
Ok so what about countries that ALREADY have big tariffs on us? Are you saying SMOOT HOWLEY to them? April 2nd Trump is putting reciprocal tariffs to correct this.
I think he's saying it would be a dumb idea to do Smoot Howley again.

I'm looking at the World Bank List of 137 countries' trade-weighted average tariff rates As a point of reference, the overwhelming majority of countries that have a higher trade-weighted average than us (1.5) are countries few Americans could even point to on a map or would not consider a great American trade partner anyway.

These are the top five countries that are:
Mexico is 4.8
China is 3.1
India is 11.5
Japan is 1.6
Most EU countries are at 1.3, which is lower than us, but the United Kingdom is 3.1

I'd probably argue for hitting India with reciprocal tariffs, and re-work deals with China before starting a tariff war there. I'd back off deals with the UK and use all other EU countries instead if they didn't want to match their fellow countries. And if I was going to start a tariff war with one of the two countries that touches us, I would start with Mexico and leave Canada alone (they score a 1.4).




Used to be friends would discuss their disagreements.


Don't go there. Compromise is weak or worse, liberal. Discussing disagreements? You can't everything is a zero sum game. If I compromise, you get more. We can't have that.
Proud 1992 Alum
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With the exception of immigration, Trump would be wise to simply follow Reagan's lead on pretty much everything. Best president of my lifetime.
EatMoreSalmon
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ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Thanks LSO.

Scott, If other countries want to try to solve their problems let them use the self defeating SM type rules. They nudged the USA into its worse depression and will do the sam3. to others. A tariff is a tax on your own people
NO they are not. You have to pay a tax on everything you buy.

A tariff makes foreign products more expensive. That's it. The more reliant on those products we are, the harder it is to deal with.

Tariffs on imports are designed to raise the price of imported goods and services to discourage consumption. The intention is for citizens to buy local products instead, thereby stimulating their country's economy. Tariffs therefore provide an incentive to develop production and replace imports with domestic products.
Wrong. They are a tax. Falls under Duties and Imposts under section 8 of the constitution.


I understand what you're saying, but when does the drop in the ability of US citizens to consume because their jobs aren't as good in the service sector as they were in the production sector.
The town we live in has lost a lot of production jobs over the last four decades. They have not been replaced with comparable paying jobs.
How do we stop this job loss in competition with countries who have much lower average wages for comparable work?
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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Proud 1992 Alum said:

With the exception of immigration, Trump would be wise to simply follow Reagan's lead on pretty much everything. Best president of my lifetime.
Amen 1992. Glad Trump is President but he is just the shell of what Ronald Reagan was. Reagan was a real diplomat and actually got along with other world leaders. With Donald Trump, we get "f*** you a**hole. I'm tired of you ripping us off!"

Gonna be a very rough and rocky four years. Hope Trump shelves his 800 lb. gorilla act. Not gonna hold my breath.
Bitcoin, $Trumpcoin, or $Fartcoin? That is the question.
william
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sweet donny gonna sweet donny!

- el KKM

D!
Go Bears!
TinFoilHatPreacherBear
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Proud 1992 Alum said:

With the exception of immigration, Trump would be wise to simply follow Reagan's lead on pretty much everything. Best president of my lifetime.
Amen 1992. Glad Trump is President but he is just the shell of what Ronald Reagan was. Reagan was a real diplomat and actually got along with other world leaders. With Donald Trump, we get "f*** you a**hole. I'm tired of you ripping us off!"

Gonna be a very rough and rocky four years. Hope Trump shelves his 800 lb. gorilla act. Not gonna hold my breath.
Is there a better way to deal with progressives?

The end goal is either to remove tariffs reciprocally and drive business here. It will work because are market is worth it.

Could he be nice while doing the same thing, sure, but they'd react all the same, don't you think?
Thee tinfoil hat couch-potato prognosticator, not a bible school preacher.


ATL Bear
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EatMoreSalmon said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Thanks LSO.

Scott, If other countries want to try to solve their problems let them use the self defeating SM type rules. They nudged the USA into its worse depression and will do the sam3. to others. A tariff is a tax on your own people
NO they are not. You have to pay a tax on everything you buy.

A tariff makes foreign products more expensive. That's it. The more reliant on those products we are, the harder it is to deal with.

Tariffs on imports are designed to raise the price of imported goods and services to discourage consumption. The intention is for citizens to buy local products instead, thereby stimulating their country's economy. Tariffs therefore provide an incentive to develop production and replace imports with domestic products.
Wrong. They are a tax. Falls under Duties and Imposts under section 8 of the constitution.


I understand what you're saying, but when does the drop in the ability of US citizens to consume because their jobs aren't as good in the service sector as they were in the production sector.
The town we live in has lost a lot of production jobs over the last four decades. They have not been replaced with comparable paying jobs.
How do we stop this job loss in competition with countries who have much lower average wages for comparable work?
Technology not cheap labor across the ocean is the destroyer of most of what's been lost. But if you want to ramp it back up, we've got to deregulate like hell. We're going to have to except environmental risk and ugly and uncomfortable work conditions, especially if we want to get back into things like mining and lower end mass steel production. Not even sure if the American workforce really wants it. People don't exactly line up to go down a coal mine. But I'd be happy if we did. But tariffs don't make that happen, that's one thing I know for sure. So I hate to punish Americans for the folly of an economic quick fix.
FLBear5630
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EatMoreSalmon said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Thanks LSO.

Scott, If other countries want to try to solve their problems let them use the self defeating SM type rules. They nudged the USA into its worse depression and will do the sam3. to others. A tariff is a tax on your own people
NO they are not. You have to pay a tax on everything you buy.

A tariff makes foreign products more expensive. That's it. The more reliant on those products we are, the harder it is to deal with.

Tariffs on imports are designed to raise the price of imported goods and services to discourage consumption. The intention is for citizens to buy local products instead, thereby stimulating their country's economy. Tariffs therefore provide an incentive to develop production and replace imports with domestic products.
Wrong. They are a tax. Falls under Duties and Imposts under section 8 of the constitution.


I understand what you're saying, but when does the drop in the ability of US citizens to consume because their jobs aren't as good in the service sector as they were in the production sector.
The town we live in has lost a lot of production jobs over the last four decades. They have not been replaced with comparable paying jobs.
How do we stop this job loss in competition with countries who have much lower average wages for comparable work?
IMO, it should be through education and job training into more technologically sophisticated production. But, that is not happening.

In my opinion, this is where DOE has failed immensely. Rather than focusing on the social, they should have been working with GAO, Dept of Labor and the Office of US Trade Representative (USTR) to deliver the work force needed for the future. I am hoping that this type of analysis will be done and help the States in designing their education curriculums to set up people for success AND supply the US with the appropriate work force.
KaiBear
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Fools can't comprehend how other countries have been imposing their tariffs on many US products for years.

Losing American jobs as a result.

All they care about is the price of their Wal Mart items going up.

Just goes to show that possession of a university degree is no proof of intelligence.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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So Reagan was wrong?
Johnny Bear
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Proud 1992 Alum said:

With the exception of immigration, Trump would be wise to simply follow Reagan's lead on pretty much everything. Best president of my lifetime.

Certainly agree Reagan was a great POTUS and he was a huge factor in helping the West ultimately win the Cold War, but even he only talked about cutting the size of government and materially eliminating fraud and abuse while Trump is actually taking actions to do it. I'm a guy that thinks Reagan's face should be on Mount Rushmore, but Trump deserves credit for being more of an activist in working to reduce the size of a horrifically bloated and largely corrupt government.
Mothra
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El Oso said:

ScottS said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Smoot Howley indeed.

Those that forget the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.
Ok so what about countries that ALREADY have big tariffs on us? Are you saying SMOOT HOWLEY to them? April 2nd Trump is putting reciprocal tariffs to correct this.
I think he's saying it would be a dumb idea to do Smoot Howley again.

I'm looking at the World Bank List of 137 countries' trade-weighted average tariff rates As a point of reference, the overwhelming majority of countries that have a higher trade-weighted average than us (1.5) are countries few Americans could even point to on a map or would not consider a great American trade partner anyway.

These are the top five countries that are:
Mexico is 4.8
China is 3.1
India is 11.5
Japan is 1.6
Most EU countries are at 1.3, which is lower than us, but the United Kingdom is 3.1

I'd probably argue for hitting India with reciprocal tariffs, and re-work deals with China before starting a tariff war there. I'd back off deals with the UK and use all other EU countries instead if they didn't want to match their fellow countries. And if I was going to start a tariff war with one of the two countries that touches us, I would start with Mexico and leave Canada alone (they score a 1.4).


Good post. Agreed. I am ok with reciprocal tariffs in an attempt to negotiate with countries that are tariffing the **** out of US products, but what Trump is doing is a really bad move. This is the first big mistake of his admin, and I suspect he's going to have to back off.
Doc Holliday
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

So Reagan was wrong?
Yes on a lot of things, including amnesty.
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