Coke Bear said:
ShooterTX said:
Coke Bear said:
ShooterTX said:
So they basically admit that the selection of a Pope is purely political... but the Catholics still believe that this guy speaks on behalf of God??
That is not just pure blasphemy, but outside of Biblical truth and Christian beliefs, it's just logically foolish. How can anyone believe that someone who get elected because of a corrupt political system, is also going to be the highest voice of morality or theology?? Ridiculous!
Please cite from the Catechism where Catholics believe that the pope "speaks on behalf of God."
It's right next to the part in the Catechism which describes the Pope mobile and the funny looking hat that the Pope wears. You might find it next to the part in the Catechism were Mary is stated to be the "Queen of Heaven"... and yet catholics around the globe are very familiar with that as one of her titles.
The reality is that you can fill St. Peter's with all of the Catholic teachings, practices & traditions which are not found in the official Catechism.
If you want to know why Catholics around the globe believe that the Pope speaks on behalf of God, you can simply read about the Vatican I Council and Pope Pius IX.
The reality is that the Pope is just a man. He is no better or worse than any other man on the planet. He may claim to be the leader of the Universal Church... but that just makes him a blasphemer. Jesus Christ is the leader of the Universal Church... not some guy from Chicago!
Likewise, he may claim to be the "Vicar of Christ" but he certainly is not! Christ does not need a human "vicar". We have the Holy Spirit... we do not need a guy in a funny hat to claim that role.
So, in other words it's NOT something that Catholics believe.
You mention Vatican I, I can only assume (because you're not being specific) that you referring to papal infallibility.
It doesn't mean that they are speaking for God. It means, the Pope exercises infallibility only when he speaks ex cathedra, meaning he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held up by the whole Church. The Holy Spirit protects him error, as promised by Jesus in Matthew 16:18.
It has only been officially used twice in the history of the Church.
With respect to your other "issues", I am happy to discuss them one at a time in any in this thread or by PM. If you're ever in Waco, I'm happy to meet at George's to discuss any of your issues with the Church. Beers will be my treat.
As vulnerable Bishop Fulton J Sheen said, "There are no more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be."
Let me get this straight.... you never pray the "Queen of Heaven" prayer? If so, I seriously doubt you are an actual Catholic.
Are you also unaware that the catholic Catechism teaches that Mary was born without sin, never had sex, and lived her life without sinning?
The Word of God clearly states that ALL have sinned and there are NONE righteous, no not one.
Please explain exactly what the Vicar of Christ means.
Do the same for the Pontiff of the Universal Church.
In my lifetime, I have never seen a Pope who rejected these titles. Quite the opposite... they were proud to have these titles. Likewise, they were proud to be referred to as "Holy Father"... a title that clearly should only apply to our Father in Heaven.
And back to the original point.... the pope is NEVER infallible. He is a man not God. His words and decrees are NOT the inspired word of God, therefore to declare that he holds the power of infallibility in any way (even only twice in history) is heretical.
You mention Matthew 16:18... are you saying that verse somehow grants infallibility to the pope?
I'm glad that you are at least referring to the Bible... so few Catholics are willing to recognize the authority of scripture.
So long as you are looking at the Bible... please explain the Catholic title for Mary as the "Queen of Heaven" in light of Jeremiah chapter 44.
Edit: in case you are unfamiliar with the Queen of Heaven prayer, I'll copy & paste it for you.
V. Queen of Heaven, rejoice, alleluia.
R. For He whom you did merit to bear, alleluia.
V. Has risen, as he said, alleluia.
R. Pray for us to God, alleluia.
V. Rejoice and be glad, O Virgin Mary, alleluia.
R. For the Lord has truly risen, alleluia.
Let us pray. O God, who gave joy to the world through the resurrection of Thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, grant we beseech Thee, that through the intercession of the Virgin Mary, His Mother, we may obtain the joys of everlasting life. Through the same Christ our Lord.
Show me in the Bible where anyone claimed that Mary is our intercessor? In fact, the scriptures are very clear. There is only ONE intercessor and only ONE who gives eternal life.... and it ain't Mary!
1 Timothy 2:5-6
[5] For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, [6] who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
1 John 2:1-2
[1] My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the FatherJesus Christ, the Righteous One. [2] He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Show me in the Word of God where Mary is anything other than a very honorable & blessed woman. Can you do that?
