Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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ShooterTX said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Let's be clear folks, an angel named Gabriel said "Hail Mary, full of Grace (ave Maria gratia plena)"

Now I don't know about those here but I'm no angel and I'm certainly not THE angel that GOD chose or commanded to go speak with the new Eve, the new ark about the proposition of giving birth miraculously to God, His son, in the flesh. (Please note what Martin Luther said about Mary's virginity. It will shock some lol)

Now if anyone chooses to repeat the words of the hand picked Gabriel, by God we might add, please know, you will likely burn in hell, well according to a poster or two

REPENT!!!!!! Be gone demons!!!

Gabriel damned a couple billion catholics at any given time to hell for all eternity. Who knew!

Don't deny it! You're saying what he said! We have eyes on you and know how God will judge you repeating this words of Angel Gabriel.

You can all ask how Gabriel got to hell as well when you get there. Bring sun screen.

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Gabriel was sent by God to deliver a message to Mary.

That is far, far different than worshipping Mary with shrines, statues, prayers and songs.

If an angelic visitation is the threshold... they why don't you guys worship & pray to Moses. Surely seeing & hearing God through the burning bush is enough for you guys to build a few shrines and make up some prayers to him.

I've never heard a Mail Moses prayer... maybe it exists.

How about a Hail Peter or Hail John or Hail James? Didn't they all have angelic visitations? Didn't they all know and see Jesus before and after his resurrection?

No... Catholics have a very weird fixation with Mary... and an even more weird fixation with her sex life. I'll never understand why Catholics created an entire doctrine around the sex life of Jesus mother. So very strange. If you disagree with Catholics about Mary knocking boots with her husband.. then they believe you will go to hell. That is some really weird BS right there. All of these pages of discussion, and not a single one of you can show an actual scriptural reference for this crazy Catholic belief that Mary was sinless and an eternal virgin. In other words, it is totally man-made nonsense.

Knock yourselves out, Catholics.

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Yet you guys seem to love talking about it. Really seems to be a weird fixation. Have you ever read
Luthers views on Mary? Here is a taste, there is .let.

One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God's grace. God has given Mary the honor to be the Mother of God and this honor we all wish to give her, to praise her highly, and to hold her in respect. But we must thereby enter the right path, and this way is Christ, for Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ and she bore Christ for me, not herself. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521)

[She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531)


I love how you know that Gabriel's honoring is not meant to be followed or emulated, even though it is in scripture. Now that doesn't count? Can you send me your key to what is literal and what isn't? So far we have scripture readings that do f count as:

Peter the rock and keys.
Gabriel telling Mary is honored among women.
Paul telling to take no wife. (Not to be followed)

Lets face it, you guys seem to pick and choose whAt is scriptural to follow and what isn't. Personally I could care less, but you guys keep coming after the Catholics in Catholic posts. With crap like Yes or No answer. What crap is that?

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I don't really care what Luther said about Mary. I care what the Bible says about praying to someone other than God.

You keep saying that Protestants are obsessed with Mary...and yet we are not the ones who worship her. If anything, we are obsessed with people who claim to follow Christ, and yet they pray more prayers to honor Mary than Jesus. Example: You said you pray the Rosary. My study of the Rosary shows that more than half of the prayers are Mary centric. So who exactly is obsessed with Mary?

Mary was a very blessed and honorable woman. So was Joseph. So were all the apostles & disciples who served with Christ, and walked with him during His years of ministry. So why isn't there a Hail Joseph prayer?
Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist, was also visited by Gabriel... where is the Hail Zechariah prayer?

The Bible is very clear that we should only worship God. Mary is not God, and yet Catholics pray more to her than to Jesus. Even if you meet a Catholic who breaks with tradition and actually prays more to God than to Mary... he is still praying to Mary, which is idolatry.

The only reason that I and others bring this up is that we are hopeful that those Catholics who truly want to follow the teaching of Jesus, will repent of their idolatry and follow the true path that Christ gave us. We are not condemning anyone, nor are we angry or trying to pick a fight as you suggested earlier. We truly just want to show you that you are engaged in exactly what God said we should never do... we should never worship anyone or anything other than God. Mary is not God. You have admitted this yourself. So how can there be any justification for praying to her, singing songs of praise to her, building shrines in to worship her, doing pilgrimages to places where she appears... all of this is idolatry.

I hope you will pray to Jesus about this. Ask the Lord to test all of this. Don't ask the saints or Mary... ask God Himself to reveal the truth to you. Remember the words of Jesus: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." in another passage he said: "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
Jesus is the only way and the only truth. If you know Jesus, you know the truth and He will set you free.

I'll be praying for you.

---

Ok so now that youve had the revelation that Luther, who created what you appear to follow and another 44,999 Catholic splinter "sects", that the Martin Luther himself wrote he believed Mary was "ever virgin" you don't care what he thinks? That's rich.

Now you're just making stuff up and showing yourself to be not quite as informed as you may think you are.

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Actually, Catholic believes have followed a line back to the first Councils.

You Protestants can't seem to figure out what to believe. It seems to change from Luther, Calvin, Wesley, and every other Pastor that decides the rules don't fit. So, which one do you guys follow and we are debating. My apologies, should have asked earlier. But, Luther came up, so I figured it was his version of Christianity we were debating. But, if it is a different one let us know. So, who is it that knows better than the Church Fathers and 2000 years of Apostolic Secession? Maybe Wesley? Calvin? Henry XIII? It does matter aparentley.

Sorry, 6 Longboards in at Happy Hour in Kona.

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I've never gotten a straight answer to that question. It's usually just "I'm Bible" so I have to cast a wide net

And of course catholic beliefs go back way before even that of course. (First councils etc) to Jesus / Peter & Team

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Ok, then show us where in the bible Jesus or his disciples, or the early church, taught or believed that Mary was sinless, perpetually a virgin, and ascended bodily into heaven. Show us where they taught or believed Peter held the office of supreme leader over the church, and that this office was to be passed down in succession. Because the Catholic church says you go to Hell if you don't believe these things. I would think that it'd be pretty important, then, to be able to show that without a doubt this is what Jesus believed and taught. If you can't do it, then Roman Catholicism is adding to the gospel. This would mean that Roman Catholicism is not from God.

Stop repeating over and over the claim that your beliefs trace back to Jesus and the apostles, and show us already. None of you have so far.

Quote:

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But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message. Not just what a dude with a Bible thought up the last week. I find peace, tranquility and confidence in that and I dont have to go look for a new preacher every few years because it's been etched in stone for thousands of years now

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What good is consistency if it's consistently wrong?

Fre3dombear said:

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Additionally for some of the Protestants here that point out "Jesus never even called Mary his mother!!!!!",

What does it mean to you when Jesus says "woman, behold your son"

What would that make this woman? Maybe a Democrat would say a birthing vessel or something but definitely not his mother! That's patriarchy thinking.

Some very unique beliefs have evolved since the splinter from Catholicism I've discovered in these conversations over the years.

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So..... you DO realize that Jesus didn't call her "mother" but called her "woman", and that when he said "behold your son" he was talking about John, don't you??

Wow.

4th and Inches said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

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Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

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the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

FLBear5630 said:

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4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil.

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil.

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

I will need to research, really don't know. My experience has been only ones that may not be citizens that are also Nuns. But the ones in Amarillo were cloisteted.

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil.

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

Yeah, looks like you and Francis would be at odds over migration.

USAID didn't seem too bad, seemed to a Biden issue more than a Francis issue. Francis complained that Biden put incompatible requirements on the Church, especially Gender stuff.

Hopefully Leo, is able to work with Trump.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil.

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

Yeah, looks like you and Francis would be at odds over migration.

USAID didn't seem too bad, seemed to a Biden issue more than a Francis issue. Francis complained that Biden put incompatible requirements on the Church, especially Gender stuff.

Hopefully Leo, is able to work with Trump.

---

Essentially the government forced the leaders if the Catholic church to capitulate in helping to being millions of illegals i to the USA so both sides would look the other way. Francis was installed to put that i to overdrive.

In a twist of irony it hurt most the kost loyal democrat voters who woke up this past election as they went from 11% tin10% to 9% of the population.

Damage done and Trump trying to fix it but Leo on the record aligned with Francis. Seriously doubt hes a "republican". Almost zero priests are republican voters. Its a massively overwhelmingly gay population, also part of the infiltration of the last near 100 years.

Francis was the ultimate goal as was Obama and the games olayed to install Obamacare. Sadly or not trump saved it after the stunt mccain pulled but it was created Tom fail so they could usher in total control single payer which would he even worse. All these things are interconnected so we'll see over time where Leo goes and ride the wave of humanity while were here. Praying he returns to true Catholicism vs what Francis was doing.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil.

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

I will need to research, really don't know. My experience has been only ones that may not be citizens that are also Nuns. But the ones in Amarillo were cloisteted.

---

Not following the nuns in amarillo thing. Is that relevant? Hadnt heard about it.

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil.

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

Yeah, looks like you and Francis would be at odds over migration.

USAID didn't seem too bad, seemed to a Biden issue more than a Francis issue. Francis complained that Biden put incompatible requirements on the Church, especially Gender stuff.

Hopefully Leo, is able to work with Trump.

---

Essentially the government forced the leaders if the Catholic church to capitulate in helping to being millions of illegals i to the USA so both sides would look the other way. Francis was installed to put that i to overdrive.

In a twist of irony it hurt most the kost loyal democrat voters who woke up this past election as they went from 11% tin10% to 9% of the population.

Damage done and Trump trying to fix it but Leo on the record aligned with Francis. Seriously doubt hes a "republican". Almost zero priests are republican voters. Its a massively overwhelmingly gay population, also part of the infiltration of the last near 100 years.

Francis was the ultimate goal as was Obama and the games olayed to install Obamacare. Sadly or not trump saved it after the stunt mccain pulled but it was created Tom fail so they could usher in total control single payer which would he even worse. All these things are interconnected so we'll see over time where Leo goes and ride the wave of humanity while were here. Praying he returns to true Catholicism vs what Francis was doing.

---

I was mistaken.

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil. ut the

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

I will need to research, really don't know. My experience has been only ones that may not be citizens that are also Nuns. But the ones in Amarillo were cloisteted.

---

Not following the nuns in amarillo thing. Is that relevant? Hadnt heard about it.

---

It was back in the 90's, when Pope JP2 was coming to Denver. They talked the Priest into going to see JP, they didn't get that they needed tickets. But the went, several did not have their paperwork completed, but went to see the Pope. They got there and actually got in. The Lord will provide with enough faith. The guy said he was nervous. That is it, nothing more than that. We are talking a handful not having final papers 30 years ago. It was a cool story. Geez, don't make something out of nothing.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil.

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

Yeah, looks like you and Francis would be at odds over migration.

USAID didn't seem too bad, seemed to a Biden issue more than a Francis issue. Francis complained that Biden put incompatible requirements on the Church, especially Gender stuff.

Hopefully Leo, is able to work with Trump.

---

Essentially the government forced the leaders if the Catholic church to capitulate in helping to being millions of illegals i to the USA so both sides would look the other way. Francis was installed to put that i to overdrive.

In a twist of irony it hurt most the kost loyal democrat voters who woke up this past election as they went from 11% tin10% to 9% of the population.

Damage done and Trump trying to fix it but Leo on the record aligned with Francis. Seriously doubt hes a "republican". Almost zero priests are republican voters. Its a massively overwhelmingly gay population, also part of the infiltration of the last near 100 years.

Francis was the ultimate goal as was Obama and the games olayed to install Obamacare. Sadly or not trump saved it after the stunt mccain pulled but it was created Tom fail so they could usher in total control single payer which would he even worse. All these things are interconnected so we'll see over time where Leo goes and ride the wave of humanity while were here. Praying he returns to true Catholicism vs what Francis was doing.

---

I talked to some people about it at BC. Massively may be a bit of an overstatement. Numbers I saw was about 1 to 2%. Guy said the vetting needed to change, my understanding is that Francis did a lot of that. He said the Pedophile mess was because of those that got through the system and the institutional protectionism was criminal. But the numbers were in the less than 2%.

If Leo is aligned with Francis the cleaning up the Curia should continue. I understand Leo is more conservative.

---

Are you saying youve been told the % of gay priests is 1-2%? Ive never been told anything close to those numbers directly from clergy and have had many conversations on it.

No way to know to know really so not something i dwell on as its largely mere speculation. Im on the record many places saying priests should be able to marry.

Yes the pedo issue is unconscionable as anyone would agree. Stats on that and sexual assault actually have statistically much lower numbers than other faiths (not that that matters BUT its the Catholic church and it has too much organization, power and money (though less these days due in large part in my opinion from drifting from the original faith and dogmas that existed since Peter)) and therefore takes all the heat as the original true faith which makes sense.

Nothing above 0 is acceptable on that topic.

It is my hope And prayer Leo Is More conservstive and traditional. I can list several things Francis fid that are not catholic or even biblical but itnis my opinion thats why they installed him under obama displacing a sitting pope for firdt time in 500-1000 years. For political reasons by the powers that be that before trump Could run roughshod with out impunity. If you can make govt God then people are easier to control And exploit.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil. ut the

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

I will need to research, really don't know. My experience has been only ones that may not be citizens that are also Nuns. But the ones in Amarillo were cloisteted.

---

Not following the nuns in amarillo thing. Is that relevant? Hadnt heard about it.

---

It was back in the 90's, when Pope JP2 was coming to Denver. They talked the Priest into going to see JP, they didn't get that they needed tickets. But the went, several did not have their paperwork completed, but went to see the Pope. They got there and actually got in. The Lord will provide with enough faith. The guy said he was nervous. That is it, nothing more than that. We are talking a handful not having final papers 30 years ago. It was a cool story. Geez, don't make something out of nothing.

---

Youre a tad sensitive. I wanted to know what you meant. Im making zero out of it. No worries. Thanks for the explanation

Im not talking illegals as clergy. Im talking the 20,000,000 that are in our neighborhoods and apartments across the country that biden obama etc let in illegally and how they exploited the catholic church to help.

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil.

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

Yeah, looks like you and Francis would be at odds over migration.

USAID didn't seem too bad, seemed to a Biden issue more than a Francis issue. Francis complained that Biden put incompatible requirements on the Church, especially Gender stuff.

Hopefully Leo, is able to work with Trump.

---

Essentially the government forced the leaders if the Catholic church to capitulate in helping to being millions of illegals i to the USA so both sides would look the other way. Francis was installed to put that i to overdrive.

In a twist of irony it hurt most the kost loyal democrat voters who woke up this past election as they went from 11% tin10% to 9% of the population.

Damage done and Trump trying to fix it but Leo on the record aligned with Francis. Seriously doubt hes a "republican". Almost zero priests are republican voters. Its a massively overwhelmingly gay population, also part of the infiltration of the last near 100 years.

Francis was the ultimate goal as was Obama and the games olayed to install Obamacare. Sadly or not trump saved it after the stunt mccain pulled but it was created Tom fail so they could usher in total control single payer which would he even worse. All these things are interconnected so we'll see over time where Leo goes and ride the wave of humanity while were here. Praying he returns to true Catholicism vs what Francis was doing.

---

I talked to some people about it at BC. Massively may be a bit of an overstatement. Numbers I saw was about 1 to 2%. Guy said the vetting needed to change, my understanding is that Francis did a lot of that. He said the Pedophile mess was because of those that got through the system and the institutional protectionism was criminal. But the numbers were in the less than 2%.

If Leo is aligned with Francis the cleaning up the Curia should continue. I understand Leo is more conservative.

---

Are you saying youve been told the % of gay priests is 1-2%? Ive never been told anything close to those numbers directly from clergy and have had many conversations on it.

No way to know to know really so not something i dwell on as its largely mere speculation. Im on the record many places saying priests should be able to marry.

Yes the pedo issue is unconscionable as anyone would agree. Stats on that and sexual assault actually have statistically much lower numbers than other faiths (not that that matters BUT its the Catholic church and it has too much organization, power and money (though less these days due in large part in my opinion from drifting from the original faith and dogmas that existed since Peter)) and therefore takes all the heat as the original true faith which makes sense.

Nothing above 0 is acceptable on that topic.

---

. I was mistaken.

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil.

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

Yeah, looks like you and Francis would be at odds over migration.

USAID didn't seem too bad, seemed to a Biden issue more than a Francis issue. Francis complained that Biden put incompatible requirements on the Church, especially Gender stuff.

Hopefully Leo, is able to work with Trump.

---

Essentially the government forced the leaders if the Catholic church to capitulate in helping to being millions of illegals i to the USA so both sides would look the other way. Francis was installed to put that i to overdrive.

In a twist of irony it hurt most the kost loyal democrat voters who woke up this past election as they went from 11% tin10% to 9% of the population.

Damage done and Trump trying to fix it but Leo on the record aligned with Francis. Seriously doubt hes a "republican". Almost zero priests are republican voters. Its a massively overwhelmingly gay population, also part of the infiltration of the last near 100 years.

Francis was the ultimate goal as was Obama and the games olayed to install Obamacare. Sadly or not trump saved it after the stunt mccain pulled but it was created Tom fail so they could usher in total control single payer which would he even worse. All these things are interconnected so we'll see over time where Leo goes and ride the wave of humanity while were here. Praying he returns to true Catholicism vs what Francis was doing.

---

I talked to some people about it at BC. Massively may be a bit of an overstatement. Numbers I saw was about 1 to 2%. Guy said the vetting needed to change, my understanding is that Francis did a lot of that. He said the Pedophile mess was because of those that got through the system and the institutional protectionism was criminal. But the numbers were in the less than 2%.

If Leo is aligned with Francis the cleaning up the Curia should continue. I understand Leo is more conservative.

---

Are you saying youve been told the % of gay priests is 1-2%? Ive never been told anything close to those numbers directly from clergy and have had many conversations on it.

No way to know to know really so not something i dwell on as its largely mere speculation. Im on the record many places saying priests should be able to marry.

Yes the pedo issue is unconscionable as anyone would agree. Stats on that and sexual assault actually have statistically much lower numbers than other faiths (not that that matters BUT its the Catholic church and it has too much organization, power and money (though less these days due in large part in my opinion from drifting from the original faith and dogmas that existed since Peter)) and therefore takes all the heat as the original true faith which makes sense.

Nothing above 0 is acceptable on that topic.

It is my hope And prayer Leo Is More conservstive and traditional. I can list several things Francis fid that are not catholic or even biblical but itnis my opinion thats why they installed him under obama displacing a sitting pope for firdt time in 500-1000 years. For political reasons by the powers that be that before trump Could run roughshod with out impunity. If you can make govt God then people are easier to control And exploit.

---

I was mistaken.

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil. ut the

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

I will need to research, really don't know. My experience has been only ones that may not be citizens that are also Nuns. But the ones in Amarillo were cloisteted.

---

Not following the nuns in amarillo thing. Is that relevant? Hadnt heard about it.

---

It was back in the 90's, when Pope JP2 was coming to Denver. They talked the Priest into going to see JP, they didn't get that they needed tickets. But the went, several did not have their paperwork completed, but went to see the Pope. They got there and actually got in. The Lord will provide with enough faith. The guy said he was nervous. That is it, nothing more than that. We are talking a handful not having final papers 30 years ago. It was a cool story. Geez, don't make something out of nothing.

---

Youre a tad sensitive. I wanted to know what you meant. Im making zero out of it. No worries. Thanks for the explanation

Im not talking illegals as clergy. Im talking the 20,000,000 that are in our neighborhoods and apartments across the country that biden obama etc let in illegally and how they exploited the catholic church to help.

---

Well, you guys take conversations and turn them into documentation exercises. Remembering past conversations over 30 years ago or talking to someone informally when visiting my daughter becomes back that up... If I do not have back up, I take it down.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil. ut the

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

I will need to research, really don't know. My experience has been only ones that may not be citizens that are also Nuns. But the ones in Amarillo were cloisteted.

---

Not following the nuns in amarillo thing. Is that relevant? Hadnt heard about it.

---

It was back in the 90's, when Pope JP2 was coming to Denver. They talked the Priest into going to see JP, they didn't get that they needed tickets. But the went, several did not have their paperwork completed, but went to see the Pope. They got there and actually got in. The Lord will provide with enough faith. The guy said he was nervous. That is it, nothing more than that. We are talking a handful not having final papers 30 years ago. It was a cool story. Geez, don't make something out of nothing.

---

Youre a tad sensitive. I wanted to know what you meant. Im making zero out of it. No worries. Thanks for the explanation

Im not talking illegals as clergy. Im talking the 20,000,000 that are in our neighborhoods and apartments across the country that biden obama etc let in illegally and how they exploited the catholic church to help.

---

Well, you guys take conversations and turn them into documentation exercises. Remembering past conversations over 30 years ago or talking to someone informally when visiting my daughter becomes back that up... If I do not have back up, I take it down.

---

I have no idea what youre talking about. This is not an issue or topic for me at all. You mentioned it and piqued my curiosity so i asked for an explanation. You provided. I said thanks then made clear, if I wasnt, that i wasnt referring to the Catholic church bringing in illegals as part of the clergy but bringing in illegals to the general populous

I havent had anything to add on the nun topic you referenced since i thanked you for your explanation. Not sure what youre talking about ornwhat youre problem is with that but i agree to move on again as i did after i said "thank you for the explanation"

Apologies if youre misunderstanding. I want nothing more from you on the nun topic. I moved on several posts ago after asking 1 question that was answered and it mever was remotely a tooic i was discussing. Apologies if i gave the impression it was. It never was.

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil. ut the

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

I will need to research, really don't know. My experience has been only ones that may not be citizens that are also Nuns. But the ones in Amarillo were cloisteted.

---

Not following the nuns in amarillo thing. Is that relevant? Hadnt heard about it.

---

It was back in the 90's, when Pope JP2 was coming to Denver. They talked the Priest into going to see JP, they didn't get that they needed tickets. But the went, several did not have their paperwork completed, but went to see the Pope. They got there and actually got in. The Lord will provide with enough faith. The guy said he was nervous. That is it, nothing more than that. We are talking a handful not having final papers 30 years ago. It was a cool story. Geez, don't make something out of nothing.

---

Youre a tad sensitive. I wanted to know what you meant. Im making zero out of it. No worries. Thanks for the explanation

Im not talking illegals as clergy. Im talking the 20,000,000 that are in our neighborhoods and apartments across the country that biden obama etc let in illegally and how they exploited the catholic church to help.

---

Well, you guys take conversations and turn them into documentation exercises. Remembering past conversations over 30 years ago or talking to someone informally when visiting my daughter becomes back that up... If I do not have back up, I take it down.

---

I have no idea what youre talking about. This is not an issue or topic for me at all. You mentioned it and piqued my curiosity so i asked for an explanation. You provided. I said thanks then made clear, if I wasnt, that i wasnt referring to the Catholic church bringing in illegals as part of the clergy but bringing in illegals to the general populous

I havent had anything to add on the nun topic you referenced since i thanked you for your explanation. Not sure what youre talking about ornwhat youre problem is with that but i agree to move on again as i did after i said "thank you for the explanation"

Apologies if youre misunderstanding. I want nothing more from you on the nun topic. I moved on several posts ago after asking 1 question that was answered and it mever was remotely a tooic i was discussing. Apologies if i gave the impression it was. It never was.

---

Not a big issue, it was a number I remembered. I tried to find the interview they referred to and couldn't, so I erased it. We have enough inter-religion stress without putting up stuff that I can't document. Simple as that. Not a you thing, it is a me policy. If I say something, I have the data to support it. A bit neurotic on that front...


As for the subject, in a perfect world. I agree with 100% heterosexual. In reality, I know that is not possible. It is a fact of life and has been forever. As long as the mentally sick that would abuse children and others are weeded out and if they commit a crime they are prosecuted. I have no margin of error on that account.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil. ut the

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

I will need to research, really don't know. My experience has been only ones that may not be citizens that are also Nuns. But the ones in Amarillo were cloisteted.

---

Not following the nuns in amarillo thing. Is that relevant? Hadnt heard about it.

---

It was back in the 90's, when Pope JP2 was coming to Denver. They talked the Priest into going to see JP, they didn't get that they needed tickets. But the went, several did not have their paperwork completed, but went to see the Pope. They got there and actually got in. The Lord will provide with enough faith. The guy said he was nervous. That is it, nothing more than that. We are talking a handful not having final papers 30 years ago. It was a cool story. Geez, don't make something out of nothing.

---

Youre a tad sensitive. I wanted to know what you meant. Im making zero out of it. No worries. Thanks for the explanation

Im not talking illegals as clergy. Im talking the 20,000,000 that are in our neighborhoods and apartments across the country that biden obama etc let in illegally and how they exploited the catholic church to help.

---

Well, you guys take conversations and turn them into documentation exercises. Remembering past conversations over 30 years ago or talking to someone informally when visiting my daughter becomes back that up... If I do not have back up, I take it down.

---

I have no idea what youre talking about. This is not an issue or topic for me at all. You mentioned it and piqued my curiosity so i asked for an explanation. You provided. I said thanks then made clear, if I wasnt, that i wasnt referring to the Catholic church bringing in illegals as part of the clergy but bringing in illegals to the general populous

I havent had anything to add on the nun topic you referenced since i thanked you for your explanation. Not sure what youre talking about ornwhat youre problem is with that but i agree to move on again as i did after i said "thank you for the explanation"

Apologies if youre misunderstanding. I want nothing more from you on the nun topic. I moved on several posts ago after asking 1 question that was answered and it mever was remotely a tooic i was discussing. Apologies if i gave the impression it was. It never was.

---

Not a big issue, it was a number I remembered. I tried to find the interview they referred to and couldn't, so I erased it. We have enough inter-religion stress without putting up stuff that I can't document. Simple as that. Not a you thing, it is a me policy. If I say something, I have the data to support it. A bit neurotic on that front...


As for the subject, in a perfect world. I agree with 100% heterosexual. In reality, I know that is not possible. It is a fact of life and has been forever. As long as the mentally sick that would abuse children and others are weeded out and if they commit a crime they are prosecuted. I have no margin of error on that account.

---

Understood

Yeah the homosexual issue all i / we can do is go by the inspired gospel. That said, its no more special a topic than divorce, adultery, ones daughter collecting $1,000s a month strip teasing guys on InlyFans, the temptation of the rich and or strikingly handsome man having access to easily sleep with hundreds if women and fornicate incessantly All those temptations are real in this temporal world. Gays dont get a pass any more than adulterers etc

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

---

You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

---

Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

---

That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

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the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

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You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

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Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

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I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil. ut the

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I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

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I will need to research, really don't know. My experience has been only ones that may not be citizens that are also Nuns. But the ones in Amarillo were cloisteted.

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Not following the nuns in amarillo thing. Is that relevant? Hadnt heard about it.

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It was back in the 90's, when Pope JP2 was coming to Denver. They talked the Priest into going to see JP, they didn't get that they needed tickets. But the went, several did not have their paperwork completed, but went to see the Pope. They got there and actually got in. The Lord will provide with enough faith. The guy said he was nervous. That is it, nothing more than that. We are talking a handful not having final papers 30 years ago. It was a cool story. Geez, don't make something out of nothing.

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Youre a tad sensitive. I wanted to know what you meant. Im making zero out of it. No worries. Thanks for the explanation

Im not talking illegals as clergy. Im talking the 20,000,000 that are in our neighborhoods and apartments across the country that biden obama etc let in illegally and how they exploited the catholic church to help.

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Well, you guys take conversations and turn them into documentation exercises. Remembering past conversations over 30 years ago or talking to someone informally when visiting my daughter becomes back that up... If I do not have back up, I take it down.

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I have no idea what youre talking about. This is not an issue or topic for me at all. You mentioned it and piqued my curiosity so i asked for an explanation. You provided. I said thanks then made clear, if I wasnt, that i wasnt referring to the Catholic church bringing in illegals as part of the clergy but bringing in illegals to the general populous

I havent had anything to add on the nun topic you referenced since i thanked you for your explanation. Not sure what youre talking about ornwhat youre problem is with that but i agree to move on again as i did after i said "thank you for the explanation"

Apologies if youre misunderstanding. I want nothing more from you on the nun topic. I moved on several posts ago after asking 1 question that was answered and it mever was remotely a tooic i was discussing. Apologies if i gave the impression it was. It never was.

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Not a big issue, it was a number I remembered. I tried to find the interview they referred to and couldn't, so I erased it. We have enough inter-religion stress without putting up stuff that I can't document. Simple as that. Not a you thing, it is a me policy. If I say something, I have the data to support it. A bit neurotic on that front...


As for the subject, in a perfect world. I agree with 100% heterosexual. In reality, I know that is not possible. It is a fact of life and has been forever. As long as the mentally sick that would abuse children and others are weeded out and if they commit a crime they are prosecuted. I have no margin of error on that account.

---

Understood

Yeah the homosexual issue all i / we can do is go by the inspired gospel. That said, its no more special a topic than divorce, adultery, ones daughter collecting $1,000s a month strip teasing guys on InlyFans, the temptation of the rich and or strikingly handsome man having access to easily sleep with hundreds if women and fornicate incessantly All those temptations are real in this temporal world. Gays dont get a pass any more than adulterers etc

---

Pope Leo made a good step today defining marriage as between a man and woman. Dignity of life for unborn and elderly. Gay community welcome back to church.

Low bar, but it is a positive step

FLBear5630 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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But you can walk into a Catholic Church most anywhere in the world every Sunday ajd get a consistent message.,,

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You aren't getting the same message at a Tridentine Mass in Nebraska that you are at a Vatican II mass in Minneapolis. You aren't getting the same message at a Vatican II mass in Munich that you are at a Vatican II mass in Mombasa, You aren't getting the same message from Opus Dei that you are from the Jesuits. You aren't getting the same message from Pope John Paul and Pope Francis. In many ways, the "big tent" of the modern Roman Catholic church mirrors the denominationalism of its Protestant rivals.

Quote:

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Keep it simple. Keep it traditional. Life is good

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That's why there's Orthodoxy. Preserving the faith once delivered to the saints since 33 A.D.

---

Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

the gathering for the sacrament of the eucharist is the reason for everything..

---

You got it.

Actually, my wife is mad at me about going to Church. After Desert Storm and doing Mass on a truck, Offertory, Consecration, Communion, and done in 12 minutes sort of ruined me for Homilies. Numerous conversations with our Unit Chaplain, a Jesuit. If I get to Church for Offertory, I am good... Drives wife nuts. Let's face it, after a Paul's Letter and a Homily of telling me what I am doing wrong and hitting me up for more money, If I can time for Profession of Faith, that is the sweet spot... : )

I will say this, the Catholic Church has latched onto one aspect of the Protestant Church that used to not be that big. Tithing. The Catholic Bishops really like that part of Protestantism...

---

Pope Francis who was part of the great infiltration, either through incompetence or on purpose, helped waste tons of money of the church, much like DEI has destroyed so many once great and proud brands with promoting incompetent leadership to check "the right boxes"

I am hopeful and prayerful that Pope Leo does an end around of what the infiltrators had hoped for

---

I don't think it was either. I truly believe Francis was most about the Gospel that emphasized Christ's message about coming for the sinner and tried to make the Church more approachable and give them a place. He really believed the Sacraments were healing and that was the best way to bring them back to the fold. I really didn't get the impression there was some DEI agenda. I know others will differ, but I do not believe that anyone that gives their life to service of others is bad or evil. ut the

---

I appreciate the desire to look for the good. Francis did some good things. Maybe many.

McCarrick gave his life in service. In all likelihood hes in eternal torment forever as we speak. Only God knows and i leave it to God

Francis equivocated. He made massive financial missteps. He continued to let the USA govt force their hand thru the pedophile shaming by bringing in tens of millions of illegal aliens and americans made them lay a huge price financially.

Their hope is Leo Can rectify at least that last part.

---

I will need to research, really don't know. My experience has been only ones that may not be citizens that are also Nuns. But the ones in Amarillo were cloisteted.

---

Not following the nuns in amarillo thing. Is that relevant? Hadnt heard about it.

---

It was back in the 90's, when Pope JP2 was coming to Denver. They talked the Priest into going to see JP, they didn't get that they needed tickets. But the went, several did not have their paperwork completed, but went to see the Pope. They got there and actually got in. The Lord will provide with enough faith. The guy said he was nervous. That is it, nothing more than that. We are talking a handful not having final papers 30 years ago. It was a cool story. Geez, don't make something out of nothing.

---

Youre a tad sensitive. I wanted to know what you meant. Im making zero out of it. No worries. Thanks for the explanation

Im not talking illegals as clergy. Im talking the 20,000,000 that are in our neighborhoods and apartments across the country that biden obama etc let in illegally and how they exploited the catholic church to help.

---

Well, you guys take conversations and turn them into documentation exercises. Remembering past conversations over 30 years ago or talking to someone informally when visiting my daughter becomes back that up... If I do not have back up, I take it down.

---

I have no idea what youre talking about. This is not an issue or topic for me at all. You mentioned it and piqued my curiosity so i asked for an explanation. You provided. I said thanks then made clear, if I wasnt, that i wasnt referring to the Catholic church bringing in illegals as part of the clergy but bringing in illegals to the general populous

I havent had anything to add on the nun topic you referenced since i thanked you for your explanation. Not sure what youre talking about ornwhat youre problem is with that but i agree to move on again as i did after i said "thank you for the explanation"

Apologies if youre misunderstanding. I want nothing more from you on the nun topic. I moved on several posts ago after asking 1 question that was answered and it mever was remotely a tooic i was discussing. Apologies if i gave the impression it was. It never was.

---

Not a big issue, it was a number I remembered. I tried to find the interview they referred to and couldn't, so I erased it. We have enough inter-religion stress without putting up stuff that I can't document. Simple as that. Not a you thing, it is a me policy. If I say something, I have the data to support it. A bit neurotic on that front...


As for the subject, in a perfect world. I agree with 100% heterosexual. In reality, I know that is not possible. It is a fact of life and has been forever. As long as the mentally sick that would abuse children and others are weeded out and if they commit a crime they are prosecuted. I have no margin of error on that account.

---

Understood

Yeah the homosexual issue all i / we can do is go by the inspired gospel. That said, its no more special a topic than divorce, adultery, ones daughter collecting $1,000s a month strip teasing guys on InlyFans, the temptation of the rich and or strikingly handsome man having access to easily sleep with hundreds if women and fornicate incessantly All those temptations are real in this temporal world. Gays dont get a pass any more than adulterers etc

---

Pope Leo made a good step today defining marriage as between a man and woman. Dignity of life for unborn and elderly. Gay community welcome back to church.

Low bar, but it is a positive step

---

Yep. I was sadly floored. So encouraging. God is not malleable to the whims of sinful man and cultural ebbs and flows. So far i like what hes done.

Theres multiple things he must do to win my approval (not that he cares) but its been a week

FLBear5630 said:

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Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

Liturgical consistency involves the preservation of far more than just the eucharist...and starting with the claim that Roman Catholicism gives a consistent message, and then reducing that consistency to a small portion of the liturgy (which isn't even the case, depending on who is handing out the elements) is moving the goal posts.

Realitybites said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

Liturgical consistency involves the preservation of far more than just the eucharist...and starting with the claim that Roman Catholicism gives a consistent message, and then reducing that consistency to a small portion of the liturgy (which isn't even the case, depending on who is handing out the elements) is moving the goal posts.

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Don't know what Church you attend, every Catholic mass is built in the same liturgy. The sacraments are central to Catholicism. Homilies may change, but the readings, liturgy of the Mass, and importance of the sacraments are the same. Otherwise, it is just Bible Study.

Realitybites said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sure you do. Regardless of the social message in the homily, the mass is ALWAYS about the Sacrament of communion. You always get a scripture reading, gospel reading, offertory, consecration and communion. Even in the field or in a war zone the basic are offertory, consideration, communion. That is the basis of the Mass. Without it, it is just Bible Study. So it is the same in every Catholic Church in the world.

---

Liturgical consistency involves the preservation of far more than just the eucharist...and starting with the claim that Roman Catholicism gives a consistent message, and then reducing that consistency to a small portion of the liturgy (which isn't even the case, depending on who is handing out the elements) is moving the goal posts.

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Do you really want to Go deep on this? Youre wrong. Sure a homily and the words said by any given priest wont be verbatim from parish to parish. If thats your point ill just move along. If you want to cite what you believe are differences, happy to discuss.

I can walk into any catholic church across most all the known world and hear the same readings, topics and experience the sacraments exactly the same way.

Maybe youre referring to this fringe or that fringe in the "trace elements " portion of catholicism

Assassin said:

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Ever seen Snoop as Christ? He is smoking a joint I think he did right after his album of Gospel raps. You would love the shirt of it.

Okay, so if I belonged to a church that said you had to believe in x, y, and z for your salvation, and I can't show biblically, historically, or even logically that any of those things are true, I think I'd be questioning whether that church was really from God and whether I should be be believing what they teach anymore. I wouldn't be talking about how great the church music is and how consistent the rituals are from church to church like it was McDondald's. I'd care a great deal about the truth behind the substance, not how it's dressed to look, sound, and feel. And I'd think that any true believer in Jesus would feel the same. But that's just me.

The importance is the consistency church to church and through time.

The Protestant church (my background) then...



The protestant church now...



The Roman Catholic Church before the 1960s...



The Roman Catholic Church now...



The church, then and now. Can't really post a video about how it changed, because, well, it really doesn't.

Roman Catholics discuss their liturgical disaster.





...and for my Roman Catholic friends, I take no pleasure in any of this. The end of the Roman patriarchate was a great loss to the church, and hearing these Roman Catholic lay people and priests discuss the final conclusion of what began in 1054 A.D. is a profoundly sad thing. I lived through something similar in the SBC as those who ran that organization wantonly disregarded Proverbs 22:28.

But these things happen, even in the time that St. John wrote the Apocalypse there were specific geographical churches that were in trouble. The church continues, around the world, independent of geography, independent of time, independent of the spirit of the age.

JD Vance and his wife meet Pope Leo XIV pic.twitter.com/f8BkhRwEp3

— Jack Poso 🇺🇸 (@JackPosobiec) May 18, 2025

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Okay, so if I belonged to a church that said you had to believe in x, y, and z for your salvation, and I can't show biblically, historically, or even logically that any of those things are true, I think I'd be questioning whether that church was really from God and whether I should be be believing what they teach anymore. I wouldn't be talking about how great the church music is and how consistent the rituals are from church to church like it was McDondald's. I'd care a great deal about the truth behind the substance, not how it's dressed to look, sound, and feel. And I'd think that any true believer in Jesus would feel the same. But that's just me.

---

As I said over a week ago, good thing you don't have to be Catholic. We have showed numerous times where the info comes from, you don't have to agree with it, yet you keep discussing .

You do seem intrigued, even jealous of the history, as you continue to say the same things. I would go and talk to a Priest, it seems whatever brand of Protestantism you take part in is not doing it for you. Maybe Tammy Faye or Jerry Falwell seem a bit shallow, who knows.

FLBear5630 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Okay, so if I belonged to a church that said you had to believe in x, y, and z for your salvation, and I can't show biblically, historically, or even logically that any of those things are true, I think I'd be questioning whether that church was really from God and whether I should be be believing what they teach anymore. I wouldn't be talking about how great the church music is and how consistent the rituals are from church to church like it was McDondald's. I'd care a great deal about the truth behind the substance, not how it's dressed to look, sound, and feel. And I'd think that any true believer in Jesus would feel the same. But that's just me.

---

As I said over a week ago, good thing you don't have to be Catholic. We have showed numerous times where the info comes from, you don't have to agree with it, yet you keep discussing .

You do seem intrigued, even jealous of the history, as you continue to say the same things. I would go and talk to a Priest, it seems whatever brand of Protestantism you take part in is not doing it for you. Maybe Tammy Faye or Jerry Falwell seem a bit shallow, who knows.

---

You keep attempting the "criticism of something means latent desire of it" argument as a last ditch effort to hide the fact that your defense is falling apart. No one here is stupid enough to buy it, so it's time to stop arguing like a juvenile and take adult responsibility for yourself and your beliefs by re-examining them closely in light of the well reasoned and well supported facts and arguments provided.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Okay, so if I belonged to a church that said you had to believe in x, y, and z for your salvation, and I can't show biblically, historically, or even logically that any of those things are true, I think I'd be questioning whether that church was really from God and whether I should be be believing what they teach anymore. I wouldn't be talking about how great the church music is and how consistent the rituals are from church to church like it was McDondald's. I'd care a great deal about the truth behind the substance, not how it's dressed to look, sound, and feel. And I'd think that any true believer in Jesus would feel the same. But that's just me.

---

As I said over a week ago, good thing you don't have to be Catholic. We have showed numerous times where the info comes from, you don't have to agree with it, yet you keep discussing .

You do seem intrigued, even jealous of the history, as you continue to say the same things. I would go and talk to a Priest, it seems whatever brand of Protestantism you take part in is not doing it for you. Maybe Tammy Faye or Jerry Falwell seem a bit shallow, who knows.

---

You keep attempting the "criticism of something means latent desire of it" argument as a last ditch effort to hide the fact that your defense is falling apart. No one here is stupid enough to buy it, so it's time to stop arguing like a juvenile and take adult responsibility for yourself and your beliefs by re-examining them closely in light of the well reasoned and well supported facts and arguments provided.

---

Ok, let's be VERY clear, I am NOT providing a defense. I, nor anyone else on here, need to defend their beliefs to you or to other on this site. If you want to follow A version of the Bible and that be your only source of information, have at it.

I am confident enough in my believes to let you have yours. If you and Tammy Faye are good, I am glad for you. I do think we will meet in Heaven, as I truly believe making the good faith effort along with believing is more important than the details. I really don't think that God has a particular version of the Bible on his bed stand or is upset that people Honor the woman he choose to carry Christ into the world. Those are man issues, but, that is me. You keep lecturing.