Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

This thread is done, no more talking about the shooter. Just defend 2a. Most of the ultra right zealots will not read past "he was married, had a kid, was a veteran." Likely right wing.

Will it make it into the list of mass shooters talked about ad nauseum? No, and we already see a reason given, because it doesn't fit the pattern. The pattern of only talking about gay and Trans and left wing mass shooters.

And for the record, I want to keep my assault rifles. Nutsos doing nutso things should not require me to give up rights.

---

Guy was likely right wing. But I am not sure that necessarily means he was motivated by a right wing ideology, unless you're aware of information I am not.

Sounds like he hated Mormons. I suppose that could be described as right wing, but without more, who knows?

In short, I don't understand what you seem to take issue with.

---

It's the ridiculous rhetoric of this board. We hear from the usual suspects about the mentally ill left wingers shooting up a school. We are told liberalism is a mental illness. That the media fomenting this type of left wing violence. That it's just left wingers doing this. But when it's not a left winger.... crickets.

---

This is not hard. I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

Some killers have a specific, ideological-political motive.

Some do not.

Some are nuts.

A person who voted for X that commits a crime for no -political reasons should not be called an X-wing .

A guy attacking a Mormon church does not seem like he
would be motivated by right-wing politics. What
makes you think that?

I cannot recall the last time there was a right-wing person that killed Democrats just for being Democrats. We have a host of Democrats killing Republicans for being Republicans.

---

Then explain to me why, when the Nashville shooter targeted Chridtians he/she hated, we got "liberalism is a mental disorder" type rhetoric, but when this shooter targeted Mormons, which he hated, we all know nobody is going to go with "conservatism is a mental disorder." Of course, just talking about this board.

Why do all liberals get blamed for the actions of the mentally ill when they are left wing, but not the other way around?

---

It's really simple. The Gaystapo has been
launching divisive Culture War issues for years and been spreading disinformation that Conversion Therapy is life saving and not wanting a man to shower with your daughter is TRANSPHOBIC!

What did Mormons do? Be polite? Cheer too loud for BYU? Not drink Starbucks?

---

What did Christians do? Neither deserved it, dont we agree on that? So why misdirect?

Your answer cannot simply be that leftists get blamed for the actions of the mentally ill because trans. Surely there are more brain cells at work.

Of course you won't be able to answer my question. The tribalism in you would never admit your tribe loves to blame bad things on the other tribe indiscriminately. Of course, that goes both ways. They do it too.

What we lack in this thread is a deep discussion of this man's ideology, how it might have been promoted in his circles, and how to prevent it in the future.

He talked with a local politician days before the attack, and likened LDS to the anti-christ or something. I don't really think that is enough to take his guns away, and I'm not seeing a better indicator.

Still there have to be lessons that can be learned. Maybe one is to not feed into that extremist rhetoric that paints large swaths of people as evil. Historian's rhetoric, and yours Harry, even Kaibear's rhetoric, can be similar. Maybe tap the brakes once in a while on the hate.

Frank Galvin said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

This thread is done, no more talking about the shooter. Just defend 2a. Most of the ultra right zealots will not read past "he was married, had a kid, was a veteran." Likely right wing.

Will it make it into the list of mass shooters talked about ad nauseum? No, and we already see a reason given, because it doesn't fit the pattern. The pattern of only talking about gay and Trans and left wing mass shooters.

And for the record, I want to keep my assault rifles. Nutsos doing nutso things should not require me to give up rights.

---

Guy was likely right wing. But I am not sure that necessarily means he was motivated by a right wing ideology, unless you're aware of information I am not.

Sounds like he hated Mormons. I suppose that could be described as right wing, but without more, who knows?

In short, I don't understand what you seem to take issue with.

---

It's the ridiculous rhetoric of this board. We hear from the usual suspects about the mentally ill left wingers shooting up a school. We are told liberalism is a mental illness. That the media fomenting this type of left wing violence. That it's just left wingers doing this. But when it's not a left winger.... crickets.

---

This is not hard. I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

Some killers have a specific, ideological-political motive.

Some do not.

Some are nuts.

A person who voted for X that commits a crime for no -political reasons should not be called an X-wing .

A guy attacking a Mormon church does not seem like he
would be motivated by right-wing politics. What
makes you think that?

I cannot recall the last time there was a right-wing person that killed Democrats just for being Democrats. We have a host of Democrats killing Republicans for being Republicans.

---

Then explain to me why, when the Nashville shooter targeted Chridtians he/she hated, we got "liberalism is a mental disorder" type rhetoric, but when this shooter targeted Mormons, which he hated, we all know nobody is going to go with "conservatism is a mental disorder." Of course, just talking about this board.

Why do all liberals get blamed for the actions of the mentally ill when they are left wing, but not the other way around?

---

It's really simple. The Gaystapo has been
launching divisive Culture War issues for years and been spreading disinformation that Conversion Therapy is life saving and not wanting a man to shower with your daughter is TRANSPHOBIC!

What did Mormons do? Be polite? Cheer too loud for BYU? Not drink Starbucks?

---

Irony escapes you.

Also, it was a Moromon who shot Charlie Kirk and it was apparently a Trump-voting Marine that killed four Mormons and injured eight more. And somehow that is the left's fault? You have on your list Trump's two would-be assasains. I am not aware of any political motivation or indcotrination that led to those attempts. Can you show us some evidence? When you get to the point that you kill or assault people because they disagree you, there is a mental illness problem. No political party or movement has a monopoly on that.

---

You're playing the same game the regressives frequently play - they will politicize and issue and then when the right does pushes back the response is "why are you politicizing an issue like this?" We see it all the time from universties to museums.

The reality is that the regressives have pushed this m;ythological disinformation of the right-wing bogeyman of violence that 1) does not actually exist; and 2) you argue does not exist.

As I often do, I will disprove your point with a simple question that you will not answer: do you believe right-wing violence exists or is all of the violence attributed to it just mental illness?

The fact you will never answer that gives truth to the lie of your entire post.

Porteroso said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

This thread is done, no more talking about the shooter. Just defend 2a. Most of the ultra right zealots will not read past "he was married, had a kid, was a veteran." Likely right wing.

Will it make it into the list of mass shooters talked about ad nauseum? No, and we already see a reason given, because it doesn't fit the pattern. The pattern of only talking about gay and Trans and left wing mass shooters.

And for the record, I want to keep my assault rifles. Nutsos doing nutso things should not require me to give up rights.

---

Guy was likely right wing. But I am not sure that necessarily means he was motivated by a right wing ideology, unless you're aware of information I am not.

Sounds like he hated Mormons. I suppose that could be described as right wing, but without more, who knows?

In short, I don't understand what you seem to take issue with.

---

It's the ridiculous rhetoric of this board. We hear from the usual suspects about the mentally ill left wingers shooting up a school. We are told liberalism is a mental illness. That the media fomenting this type of left wing violence. That it's just left wingers doing this. But when it's not a left winger.... crickets.

---

This is not hard. I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

Some killers have a specific, ideological-political motive.

Some do not.

Some are nuts.

A person who voted for X that commits a crime for no -political reasons should not be called an X-wing .

A guy attacking a Mormon church does not seem like he
would be motivated by right-wing politics. What
makes you think that?

I cannot recall the last time there was a right-wing person that killed Democrats just for being Democrats. We have a host of Democrats killing Republicans for being Republicans.

---

Then explain to me why, when the Nashville shooter targeted Chridtians he/she hated, we got "liberalism is a mental disorder" type rhetoric, but when this shooter targeted Mormons, which he hated, we all know nobody is going to go with "conservatism is a mental disorder." Of course, just talking about this board.

Why do all liberals get blamed for the actions of the mentally ill when they are left wing, but not the other way around?

---

It's really simple. The Gaystapo has been
launching divisive Culture War issues for years and been spreading disinformation that Conversion Therapy is life saving and not wanting a man to shower with your daughter is TRANSPHOBIC!

What did Mormons do? Be polite? Cheer too loud for BYU? Not drink Starbucks?

---

What did Christians do? Neither deserved it, dont we agree on that? So why misdirect?

Your answer cannot simply be that leftists get blamed for the actions of the mentally ill because trans. Surely there are more brain cells at work.

Of course you won't be able to answer my question. The tribalism in you would never admit your tribe loves to blame bad things on the other tribe indiscriminately. Of course, that goes both ways. They do it too.

What we lack in this thread is a deep discussion of this man's ideology, how it might have been promoted in his circles, and how to prevent it in the future.

He talked with a local politician days before the attack, and likened LDS to the anti-christ or something. I don't really think that is enough to take his guns away, and I'm not seeing a better indicator.

Still there have to be lessons that can be learned. Maybe one is to not feed into that extremist rhetoric that paints large swaths of people as evil. Historian's rhetoric, and yours Harry, even Kaibear's rhetoric, can be similar. Maybe tap the brakes once in a while on the hate.

---

Okay, so I think it will be helpful for me to take a step back and help you understand some basic realities of life. I hope this will help you understand what I apologize for thinking was easy for most folks to grasp.

First, as humans we categorize people. This could be by race, age, attractiveness, religion, political party, home town, college affiliation, favorite sports team, etc. The term "Mormon" is used for this type of classification. "Mormon" is a colloquially term for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Second, politics is the practice of how a society decided to allocate limited resources. So-called "political issues" might include tax rates, federalism, access to abortion, gun rights, tariffs ... increasingly the Democrat party has infected politics with Culture War issue like laws allowing men to compete in women's sports, shower with young girls, and provide off-label drugs to children that think they are so-called transgender, which is anti-science but consistent with a Culture War meme.

If a person attacks a group such as Mormons, that is an attack driven by a grievance directed at the group for being Mormon. The Mormon Church is conservative, but it is not as actively engaged in the public square politically as say the Catholic Church, which is both radically Pro-Life and pro-illegal immigration. The Mormon Church generally does not take public political positions and is more introspective.

So if you believe the attack on the Mormon Church was political and so-called "right wing," what issue triggered (no pun intended) the killer to attack? What evidence can you share?

Conversely, we know from the killers' writings that the attack against the schools in Minnesota and Nashville were drive by radically anti-science, Gaystapo ideology ... the killers did not really hide their motives - they felt because these schools believe in science and did not indulge the mental illness of the killers that the schools must be attacked.

If you would read my posts, I clearly make a distinction based on what the motives seem to be based on what we know. See if this makes sense ...

1. Based on what we know, the leftists that attacked Paul Pelosi and the Minnesota politician were actually mentally ill - they were crazy and could not really function in normal society

2. The attackers of the Congressional baseball game, Trump assassinations, attack on Lee Zeldine, people attacking Teslas, Burn Loot Murder, antifa, Trump assassins, Charlie Kirk's killer, the trans mass shooters ... all seem to be reacting to a particular political position that their targets took.

Since we have redefined "mental illness" to basically mean anything as a means to remove human culpability, the latter were not mentally ill to the same level of the #1 attackers, who were hearing voices and blaming spectres for their actions.

Redbrickbear said:

---

I always forget how illiterate about religion the modern secular media is…

---

That explains every LWNJ on this board - living in a complete fantasy world.

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

whiterock said:

---

2 days out, and still no police statements or actual published evidence of political affiliation of the shooter.

What does that tell us?

---

It tells us we want instant information to run with. It's not always available, especially if you want to get it right.

I'd bet, most crimes are not ideological. They're opportunistic or anger driven.

---

what it tells us is that they can't find any hard information to link him to right wing narratives, because if there was a shred of it, there'd be a torrent of stories calling him a right wing terrorist.

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

This thread is done, no more talking about the shooter. Just defend 2a. Most of the ultra right zealots will not read past "he was married, had a kid, was a veteran." Likely right wing.

Will it make it into the list of mass shooters talked about ad nauseum? No, and we already see a reason given, because it doesn't fit the pattern. The pattern of only talking about gay and Trans and left wing mass shooters.

And for the record, I want to keep my assault rifles. Nutsos doing nutso things should not require me to give up rights.

---

Guy was likely right wing. But I am not sure that necessarily means he was motivated by a right wing ideology, unless you're aware of information I am not.

Sounds like he hated Mormons. I suppose that could be described as right wing, but without more, who knows?

In short, I don't understand what you seem to take issue with.

---

It's the ridiculous rhetoric of this board. We hear from the usual suspects about the mentally ill left wingers shooting up a school. We are told liberalism is a mental illness. That the media fomenting this type of left wing violence. That it's just left wingers doing this. But when it's not a left winger.... crickets.

---

This is not hard. I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

Some killers have a specific, ideological-political motive.

Some do not.

Some are nuts.

A person who voted for X that commits a crime for no -political reasons should not be called an X-wing .

A guy attacking a Mormon church does not seem like he
would be motivated by right-wing politics. What
makes you think that?

I cannot recall the last time there was a right-wing person that killed Democrats just for being Democrats. We have a host of Democrats killing Republicans for being Republicans.

---

I cannot recall the last time there was a right-wing person that killed Democrats just for being Democrats. We have a host of Democrats killing Republicans for being Republicans.

This is willful ignorance. The attacks on the Minnesota lawmaker (Melissa Hortman and her husband) quickly come to mind followed by Paul Pelosi.

---

The Minnesota shooter to which you refer was a Democrat, who'd been appointed by a Democrat Governor to a board serving a Democrat administration in a Democrat bastion state. Moreover, the electeds shot had crossed party lines to vote FOR a bill to exclude illegal aliens from state healthcare assistance, and were facing outrage from within the Democrat party. And he has made a statement that his acts were not politically motivated. But a neighbor said he thought the shooter was a Trump voter and there is evidence that the shooter had some identifiably pro-life views on abortion....poof.....he becomes a hard-core right winger. In reality, it is not clear that the shooting fits neatly into a partisan hole.

thank you for providing such an excellent example of the how leftists think.....creating narratives out of whole cloth to assuage their own sensibilities (and distract from the reality that RECENT political violence is overwhelmingly left against right.) The number of wild-eyed progressive ****** shooters we have seen is extraordinary, given their infinitesimally small share of the overall populace.

Porteroso said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

This thread is done, no more talking about the shooter. Just defend 2a. Most of the ultra right zealots will not read past "he was married, had a kid, was a veteran." Likely right wing.

Will it make it into the list of mass shooters talked about ad nauseum? No, and we already see a reason given, because it doesn't fit the pattern. The pattern of only talking about gay and Trans and left wing mass shooters.

And for the record, I want to keep my assault rifles. Nutsos doing nutso things should not require me to give up rights.

---

Guy was likely right wing. But I am not sure that necessarily means he was motivated by a right wing ideology, unless you're aware of information I am not.

Sounds like he hated Mormons. I suppose that could be described as right wing, but without more, who knows?

In short, I don't understand what you seem to take issue with.

---

It's the ridiculous rhetoric of this board. We hear from the usual suspects about the mentally ill left wingers shooting up a school. We are told liberalism is a mental illness. That the media fomenting this type of left wing violence. That it's just left wingers doing this. But when it's not a left winger.... crickets.

---

This is not hard. I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

Some killers have a specific, ideological-political motive.

Some do not.

Some are nuts.

A person who voted for X that commits a crime for no -political reasons should not be called an X-wing .

A guy attacking a Mormon church does not seem like he
would be motivated by right-wing politics. What
makes you think that?

I cannot recall the last time there was a right-wing person that killed Democrats just for being Democrats. We have a host of Democrats killing Republicans for being Republicans.

---

Then explain to me why, when the Nashville shooter targeted Chridtians he/she hated, we got "liberalism is a mental disorder" type rhetoric, but when this shooter targeted Mormons, which he hated, we all know nobody is going to go with "conservatism is a mental disorder." Of course, just talking about this board.

Why do all liberals get blamed for the actions of the mentally ill when they are left wing, but not the other way around?

---

It's really simple. The Gaystapo has been
launching divisive Culture War issues for years and been spreading disinformation that Conversion Therapy is life saving and not wanting a man to shower with your daughter is TRANSPHOBIC!

What did Mormons do? Be polite? Cheer too loud for BYU? Not drink Starbucks?

---

What did Christians do? Neither deserved it, dont we agree on that? So why misdirect?

Your answer cannot simply be that leftists get blamed for the actions of the mentally ill because trans. Surely there are more brain cells at work.

Of course you won't be able to answer my question. The tribalism in you would never admit your tribe loves to blame bad things on the other tribe indiscriminately. Of course, that goes both ways. They do it too.

What we lack in this thread is a deep discussion of this man's ideology, how it might have been promoted in his circles, and how to prevent it in the future.

He talked with a local politician days before the attack, and likened LDS to the anti-christ or something. I don't really think that is enough to take his guns away, and I'm not seeing a better indicator.

Still there have to be lessons that can be learned. Maybe one is to not feed into that extremist rhetoric that paints large swaths of people as evil. Historian's rhetoric, and yours Harry, even Kaibear's rhetoric, can be similar. Maybe tap the brakes once in a while on the hate.

---

While I generally agree with much of this, I just don't see the permission structures in place on the right as they are on the left that allow these kinds of violent acts to happen. It is the left that generally describes others as evil (as opposed to their policies or beliefs) and dehumanizes them to the point they need to be snuffed out. We see this kind of rhetoric constantly on the left. We generally don't see that type of rhetoric on the right.

It is why we saw billions of dollars in looting and destruction, and assaults and murders, when a guy like George Floyd died, and none when Kirk was murdered. It's why conservative speakers at universities need armed security, and liberal speakers don't. It's why we need the national guard to come in and protect govt. structures during the Occupy and antifa protests, but none of the above when right wing groups protest. It's why conservative politicians are attacked at restaurants when on family outings, and liberal politicians are not.

In short, there is a violent and authoritarian bent in leftist ideology that gives permission to leftists to commit violent acts against people they see as truly evil and inhuman. That simply doesn't exist in general on the right.

Mothra said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

This thread is done, no more talking about the shooter. Just defend 2a. Most of the ultra right zealots will not read past "he was married, had a kid, was a veteran." Likely right wing.

Will it make it into the list of mass shooters talked about ad nauseum? No, and we already see a reason given, because it doesn't fit the pattern. The pattern of only talking about gay and Trans and left wing mass shooters.

And for the record, I want to keep my assault rifles. Nutsos doing nutso things should not require me to give up rights.

---

Guy was likely right wing. But I am not sure that necessarily means he was motivated by a right wing ideology, unless you're aware of information I am not.

Sounds like he hated Mormons. I suppose that could be described as right wing, but without more, who knows?

In short, I don't understand what you seem to take issue with.

---

It's the ridiculous rhetoric of this board. We hear from the usual suspects about the mentally ill left wingers shooting up a school. We are told liberalism is a mental illness. That the media fomenting this type of left wing violence. That it's just left wingers doing this. But when it's not a left winger.... crickets.

---

This is not hard. I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

Some killers have a specific, ideological-political motive.

Some do not.

Some are nuts.

A person who voted for X that commits a crime for no -political reasons should not be called an X-wing .

A guy attacking a Mormon church does not seem like he
would be motivated by right-wing politics. What
makes you think that?

I cannot recall the last time there was a right-wing person that killed Democrats just for being Democrats. We have a host of Democrats killing Republicans for being Republicans.

---

Then explain to me why, when the Nashville shooter targeted Chridtians he/she hated, we got "liberalism is a mental disorder" type rhetoric, but when this shooter targeted Mormons, which he hated, we all know nobody is going to go with "conservatism is a mental disorder." Of course, just talking about this board.

Why do all liberals get blamed for the actions of the mentally ill when they are left wing, but not the other way around?

---

It's really simple. The Gaystapo has been
launching divisive Culture War issues for years and been spreading disinformation that Conversion Therapy is life saving and not wanting a man to shower with your daughter is TRANSPHOBIC!

What did Mormons do? Be polite? Cheer too loud for BYU? Not drink Starbucks?

---

What did Christians do? Neither deserved it, dont we agree on that? So why misdirect?

Your answer cannot simply be that leftists get blamed for the actions of the mentally ill because trans. Surely there are more brain cells at work.

Of course you won't be able to answer my question. The tribalism in you would never admit your tribe loves to blame bad things on the other tribe indiscriminately. Of course, that goes both ways. They do it too.

What we lack in this thread is a deep discussion of this man's ideology, how it might have been promoted in his circles, and how to prevent it in the future.

He talked with a local politician days before the attack, and likened LDS to the anti-christ or something. I don't really think that is enough to take his guns away, and I'm not seeing a better indicator.

Still there have to be lessons that can be learned. Maybe one is to not feed into that extremist rhetoric that paints large swaths of people as evil. Historian's rhetoric, and yours Harry, even Kaibear's rhetoric, can be similar. Maybe tap the brakes once in a while on the hate.

---

While I generally agree with much of this, I just don't see the permission structures in place on the right as they are on the left that allow these kinds of violent acts to happen. It is the left that generally describes others as evil (as opposed to their policies or beliefs) and dehumanizes them to the point they need to be snuffed out. We see this kind of rhetoric constantly on the left. We generally don't see that type of rhetoric on the right.

It is why we saw billions of dollars in looting and destruction, and assaults and murders, when a guy like George Floyd died, and none when Kirk was murdered. It's why conservative speakers at universities need armed security, and liberal speakers don't. It's why we need the national guard to come in and protect govt. structures during the Occupy and antifa protests, but none of the above when right wing groups protest. It's why conservative politicians are attacked at restaurants when on family outings, and liberal politicians are not.

In short, there is a violent and authoritarian bent in leftist ideology that gives permission to leftists to commit violent acts against people they see as truly evil and inhuman. That simply doesn't exist in general on the right.

---

It is definitely true that political violence has been more left wing in the past decade. But there are crazies on both sides, and both sides rush to say the crazies were on the other. Read the first page of this thread. People hoping this guy was another trans. If this board was fair in that regard, quick to point out that anyone murdering children, or strangers, is not acting on politics, I would understand the desire to not delve too deeply into this guy's motives. But that fairness is not here, and frankly, it is not on any internet site.

And why do you think Republicans dont characterize Democrats as evil? Several on this board do. Evil, mentally ill, fascists authoritarian, etc. They are just parroting what Trump says.

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

This thread is done, no more talking about the shooter. Just defend 2a. Most of the ultra right zealots will not read past "he was married, had a kid, was a veteran." Likely right wing.

Will it make it into the list of mass shooters talked about ad nauseum? No, and we already see a reason given, because it doesn't fit the pattern. The pattern of only talking about gay and Trans and left wing mass shooters.

And for the record, I want to keep my assault rifles. Nutsos doing nutso things should not require me to give up rights.

---

Guy was likely right wing. But I am not sure that necessarily means he was motivated by a right wing ideology, unless you're aware of information I am not.

Sounds like he hated Mormons. I suppose that could be described as right wing, but without more, who knows?

In short, I don't understand what you seem to take issue with.

---

It's the ridiculous rhetoric of this board. We hear from the usual suspects about the mentally ill left wingers shooting up a school. We are told liberalism is a mental illness. That the media fomenting this type of left wing violence. That it's just left wingers doing this. But when it's not a left winger.... crickets.

---

This is not hard. I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

Some killers have a specific, ideological-political motive.

Some do not.

Some are nuts.

A person who voted for X that commits a crime for no -political reasons should not be called an X-wing .

A guy attacking a Mormon church does not seem like he
would be motivated by right-wing politics. What
makes you think that?

I cannot recall the last time there was a right-wing person that killed Democrats just for being Democrats. We have a host of Democrats killing Republicans for being Republicans.

---

Then explain to me why, when the Nashville shooter targeted Chridtians he/she hated, we got "liberalism is a mental disorder" type rhetoric, but when this shooter targeted Mormons, which he hated, we all know nobody is going to go with "conservatism is a mental disorder." Of course, just talking about this board.

Why do all liberals get blamed for the actions of the mentally ill when they are left wing, but not the other way around?

---

It's really simple. The Gaystapo has been
launching divisive Culture War issues for years and been spreading disinformation that Conversion Therapy is life saving and not wanting a man to shower with your daughter is TRANSPHOBIC!

What did Mormons do? Be polite? Cheer too loud for BYU? Not drink Starbucks?

---

What did Christians do? Neither deserved it, dont we agree on that? So why misdirect?

Your answer cannot simply be that leftists get blamed for the actions of the mentally ill because trans. Surely there are more brain cells at work.

Of course you won't be able to answer my question. The tribalism in you would never admit your tribe loves to blame bad things on the other tribe indiscriminately. Of course, that goes both ways. They do it too.

What we lack in this thread is a deep discussion of this man's ideology, how it might have been promoted in his circles, and how to prevent it in the future.

He talked with a local politician days before the attack, and likened LDS to the anti-christ or something. I don't really think that is enough to take his guns away, and I'm not seeing a better indicator.

Still there have to be lessons that can be learned. Maybe one is to not feed into that extremist rhetoric that paints large swaths of people as evil. Historian's rhetoric, and yours Harry, even Kaibear's rhetoric, can be similar. Maybe tap the brakes once in a while on the hate.

---

While I generally agree with much of this, I just don't see the permission structures in place on the right as they are on the left that allow these kinds of violent acts to happen. It is the left that generally describes others as evil (as opposed to their policies or beliefs) and dehumanizes them to the point they need to be snuffed out. We see this kind of rhetoric constantly on the left. We generally don't see that type of rhetoric on the right.

It is why we saw billions of dollars in looting and destruction, and assaults and murders, when a guy like George Floyd died, and none when Kirk was murdered. It's why conservative speakers at universities need armed security, and liberal speakers don't. It's why we need the national guard to come in and protect govt. structures during the Occupy and antifa protests, but none of the above when right wing groups protest. It's why conservative politicians are attacked at restaurants when on family outings, and liberal politicians are not.

In short, there is a violent and authoritarian bent in leftist ideology that gives permission to leftists to commit violent acts against people they see as truly evil and inhuman. That simply doesn't exist in general on the right.

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It is definitely true that political violence has been more left wing in the past decade. But there are crazies on both sides, and both sides rush to say the crazies were on the other. Read the first page of this thread. People hoping this guy was another trans. If this board was fair in that regard, quick to point out that anyone murdering children, or strangers, is not acting on politics, I would understand the desire to not delve too deeply into this guy's motives. But that fairness is not here, and frankly, it is not on any internet site.

And why do you think Republicans dont characterize Democrats as evil? Several on this board do. Evil, mentally ill, fascists authoritarian, etc. They are just parroting what Trump says.

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I was speaking in general terms. There are outliers everywhere, but I don't hear Republican politicians saying the same types of things as Democrats. The doomsday bull**** we hear from Dems on a consistent basis are what lead to the permission structures that say, "It's ok to assassinate Trump because if we don't, Democracy will end." Hell, HRC was talking about it just a couple of days ago - that she seriously believes that this could be the end of democracy in our country. And that is a consistent refrain of most Democrats nowdays.

Waco1947 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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The question is why are these young white males so twisted that they shoot up people?

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Mr. Waco you as a progressive liberal really really don't want to open that can of worms and start talking about race and gun violence in America.

I promise you will not like the statistics on that….

It will make you very uncomfortable.

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Each of the shooters is a loner, deeply into gaming, a social outcast, reclusive, and unstable, not politically motivated. I limited my statement to Sandy Hook, Florida High School, the president's assassin, Kirk's assassin, the assassin of Kirk, the Idaho stabber, and the Uvalde shooter. (I am probably leaving our others) This is the scope of my comments

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I suppose the question is, is trans ideology political in nature? Well, we know that the Dems and their platform share the ideology, so I think it's safe to say it is indeed a political issue for the left.

Waco1947 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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The question is why are these young white males so twisted that they shoot up people?

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Mr. Waco you as a progressive liberal really really don't want to open that can of worms and start talking about race and gun violence in America.

I promise you will not like the statistics on that….

It will make you very uncomfortable.

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Each of the shooters is a loner, deeply into gaming, a social outcast, reclusive, and unstable, not politically motivated. I limited my statement to Sandy Hook, Florida High School, the president's assassin, Kirk's assassin, the assassin of Kirk, the Idaho stabber, and the Uvalde shooter. (I am probably leaving our others) This is the scope of my comments

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What would you call writing political slogans on bullets or writing a manifesto about hating Christians? Were all the trannies that shot up school children politically motivated?

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I am taking a deeper dive than just politics. Politics is too narrow a view for the complexity of why young white males become shooters. Sandy Hook, Columbine, Uvalde, and Stoneman HS in Florida were not politically motivated. We cannot simply blame politics.

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I agree 100%. As I noted, young white males have been told for a generation that:
1. They are privileged regardless of their socio-economic status
2. They are inherently racist and evil
3. Their masculinity is toxic and they are inherently a danger to women
4. Everything is school curriculum is designed for girls
5. They face literal discrimination in school and jobs

Do you think that might have an impact on their mental health?

Porteroso said:

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Realitybites said:

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Porteroso said:

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And why do you think Republicans dont characterize Democrats as evil? Several on this board do. Evil, mentally ill, fascists authoritarian, etc. They are just parroting what Trump says.

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I have been calling Democrats evil when Trump was still a real estate developer and reality TV star. The writing has been on the wall on that for several decades.

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It's extremist rhetoric. Your mirror is out there too, calling all Republicans evil for decades. It's just ignorant, and unnecessary.

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But killing unborn humans IS evil. Releasing criminals back into society IS evil. Open borders IS evil. Pushing ****** degeneracy on children IS evil. Assassinating your political opponents IS evil. Putting porn in elementary schools IS evil. Using race to get votes then leaving those people in poverty and ignorance for decades IS evil. Sending billions to violent Muslim regimes who use that money to attack us and our allies IS evil. The problem isn't that democrats are being called evil, the problem is they ARE evil..

Wangchung said:

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Porteroso said:

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Realitybites said:

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Porteroso said:

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And why do you think Republicans dont characterize Democrats as evil? Several on this board do. Evil, mentally ill, fascists authoritarian, etc. They are just parroting what Trump says.

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I have been calling Democrats evil when Trump was still a real estate developer and reality TV star. The writing has been on the wall on that for several decades.

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It's extremist rhetoric. Your mirror is out there too, calling all Republicans evil for decades. It's just ignorant, and unnecessary.

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But killing unborn humans IS evil. Releasing criminals back into society IS evil. Open borders IS evil. Pushing ****** degeneracy on children IS evil. Assassinating your political opponents IS evil. Putting porn in elementary schools IS evil. Using race to get votes then leaving those people in poverty and ignorance for decades IS evil. Sending billions to violent Muslim regimes who use that money to attack us and our allies IS evil. The problem isn't that democrats are being called evil, the problem is they ARE evil..

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It's also evil to cal anyone that disagrees with you racist, sexist, Islamophobia, transphobic, gay phobic, fascist, THREAT TO DEMOCRACY, etc.

The left generally are evil authoritarians.

Mothra said:

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Porteroso said:

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Mothra said:

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Porteroso said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Porteroso said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Porteroso said:

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Mothra said:

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Porteroso said:

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This thread is done, no more talking about the shooter. Just defend 2a. Most of the ultra right zealots will not read past "he was married, had a kid, was a veteran." Likely right wing.

Will it make it into the list of mass shooters talked about ad nauseum? No, and we already see a reason given, because it doesn't fit the pattern. The pattern of only talking about gay and Trans and left wing mass shooters.

And for the record, I want to keep my assault rifles. Nutsos doing nutso things should not require me to give up rights.

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Guy was likely right wing. But I am not sure that necessarily means he was motivated by a right wing ideology, unless you're aware of information I am not.

Sounds like he hated Mormons. I suppose that could be described as right wing, but without more, who knows?

In short, I don't understand what you seem to take issue with.

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It's the ridiculous rhetoric of this board. We hear from the usual suspects about the mentally ill left wingers shooting up a school. We are told liberalism is a mental illness. That the media fomenting this type of left wing violence. That it's just left wingers doing this. But when it's not a left winger.... crickets.

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This is not hard. I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

Some killers have a specific, ideological-political motive.

Some do not.

Some are nuts.

A person who voted for X that commits a crime for no -political reasons should not be called an X-wing .

A guy attacking a Mormon church does not seem like he
would be motivated by right-wing politics. What
makes you think that?

I cannot recall the last time there was a right-wing person that killed Democrats just for being Democrats. We have a host of Democrats killing Republicans for being Republicans.

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Then explain to me why, when the Nashville shooter targeted Chridtians he/she hated, we got "liberalism is a mental disorder" type rhetoric, but when this shooter targeted Mormons, which he hated, we all know nobody is going to go with "conservatism is a mental disorder." Of course, just talking about this board.

Why do all liberals get blamed for the actions of the mentally ill when they are left wing, but not the other way around?

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It's really simple. The Gaystapo has been
launching divisive Culture War issues for years and been spreading disinformation that Conversion Therapy is life saving and not wanting a man to shower with your daughter is TRANSPHOBIC!

What did Mormons do? Be polite? Cheer too loud for BYU? Not drink Starbucks?

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What did Christians do? Neither deserved it, dont we agree on that? So why misdirect?

Your answer cannot simply be that leftists get blamed for the actions of the mentally ill because trans. Surely there are more brain cells at work.

Of course you won't be able to answer my question. The tribalism in you would never admit your tribe loves to blame bad things on the other tribe indiscriminately. Of course, that goes both ways. They do it too.

What we lack in this thread is a deep discussion of this man's ideology, how it might have been promoted in his circles, and how to prevent it in the future.

He talked with a local politician days before the attack, and likened LDS to the anti-christ or something. I don't really think that is enough to take his guns away, and I'm not seeing a better indicator.

Still there have to be lessons that can be learned. Maybe one is to not feed into that extremist rhetoric that paints large swaths of people as evil. Historian's rhetoric, and yours Harry, even Kaibear's rhetoric, can be similar. Maybe tap the brakes once in a while on the hate.

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While I generally agree with much of this, I just don't see the permission structures in place on the right as they are on the left that allow these kinds of violent acts to happen. It is the left that generally describes others as evil (as opposed to their policies or beliefs) and dehumanizes them to the point they need to be snuffed out. We see this kind of rhetoric constantly on the left. We generally don't see that type of rhetoric on the right.

It is why we saw billions of dollars in looting and destruction, and assaults and murders, when a guy like George Floyd died, and none when Kirk was murdered. It's why conservative speakers at universities need armed security, and liberal speakers don't. It's why we need the national guard to come in and protect govt. structures during the Occupy and antifa protests, but none of the above when right wing groups protest. It's why conservative politicians are attacked at restaurants when on family outings, and liberal politicians are not.

In short, there is a violent and authoritarian bent in leftist ideology that gives permission to leftists to commit violent acts against people they see as truly evil and inhuman. That simply doesn't exist in general on the right.

---

It is definitely true that political violence has been more left wing in the past decade. But there are crazies on both sides, and both sides rush to say the crazies were on the other. Read the first page of this thread. People hoping this guy was another trans. If this board was fair in that regard, quick to point out that anyone murdering children, or strangers, is not acting on politics, I would understand the desire to not delve too deeply into this guy's motives. But that fairness is not here, and frankly, it is not on any internet site.

And why do you think Republicans dont characterize Democrats as evil? Several on this board do. Evil, mentally ill, fascists authoritarian, etc. They are just parroting what Trump says.

---

I was speaking in general terms. There are outliers everywhere, but I don't hear Republican politicians saying the same types of things as Democrats.

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You just heard Trump threatening to use Democratic cities for target practice. But you like him, so it doesn't count.

whiterock said:

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VP is a strong voice for moral clarity.

The Democrat candidate for AG in Virginia has been fantasizing about murdering his political opponents in private messages. I'm sure the people hyperventilating about sombrero memes will join me in calling for this very deranged person to drop out of the race. https://t.co/ZapsWc9VFG

— JD Vance (@JDVance) October 4, 2025

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Absolutely inexcusable for this person to endorse violence against his political enemies. I guess the only slightly mitigating factor is that he didn't do it publicly in front of 800 general officers.