BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Doc Holliday said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Doc Holliday said:
Yeah we're meant to have ted talk Bible study sessions every Sunday in multi million dollar churches and kneel before U2 sounding bands, then discuss investment strategies over coffee and remind everyone that righteousness will be imputed on them magically with no willpower on their part.
Definitely what the apostles envisioned.
The righteousness of Jesus is imputed to us by our faith in him, not by any work. This is literally the teaching of the apostle Paul.
And I wonder if the apostles ever envisioned crediting Mary for our salvation and bowing and praying to images of people.
Mere acknowledgment that Christ is Lord doesn't defeat temptation.
Victory over sin requires dying to the self and turning the will toward Christ in the very moment temptation arises.
That is what we mean by works…not earning salvation, but cooperating with grace. Repentance, self-denial, and resistance to temptation all require the active participation of the will.
Dying to the self isn't automatic, it requires real effort and synergy with God. It's extraordinarily difficult.
Expecting God to do all the work while refusing to struggle is not faith, its sloth dressed up as piety.
God is always there, victory comes when you finally turn toward Him. Grace is like a socket that already has power. God is always present and always supplying the power, and if you want that power, you have to plug into it.
If your definition of faith excludes the real involvement of the will, then it's not apostolic faith, but assent without obedience.
When you're confronted with temptation, do you think your will plays any real role in whether you sin or resist?
Defeating temptation, victory over sin, dying to self... those are all good things that true Christians strive for. The "will" to be good is the fruit of salvation and the Holy Spirit entering you. But Scripture is crystal clear that your faith is what determines your salvation, not your level of "goodness" in these areas.
"Faith" is defined in Scripture - it's the assurance of things hoped for, and the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). Scripture is telling you that faith does not involve works, but is something that is within your heart.
It's really simple. You can accept what Jesus says through Scripture, or you can reject it and rely on your ability to be "good" in order to be saved.
It's not faith + works = salvation;
It's faith = salvation + works.
I'm not arguing for pelagianism which says man supplies the power.
Do I believe I can defeat sin without God? No.
Do I believe grace is optional? No.
Do I believe effort earns salvation? No.
Do I believe effort is required to participate in Grace? Yes.
You need to read the rest of Hebrews, where acts of faith (like Abraham obeying) are listed as evidence that true faith acts.
We can figure this out between Paul and James:
Paul and James aren't contradicting each other, they're addressing different questions.
Paul's question: How does a guilty sinner stand justified before a holy God?His answer: Through faith alone, apart from works of the Jewish law. The sinner brings nothing. Christ brings everything. Faith receives what grace provides.
James's question: What kind of faith actually saves? How can you tell genuine faith from mere intellectual agreement?His answer: By its fruit. Saving faith produces works. Faith that doesn't transform behavior isn't real faith at all, it's dead faith, empty profession, intellectual assent without heart transformation. He says this because in order to have these fruits, it requires your effort to cooperate with God.
The fruit doesn't make the tree alive. But if there's no fruit, the tree is dead.
Effort is required to participate in Grace.
If I'm separating faith from behavior then I would have to argue that intellectual assent without heart transformation saves. As soon as you say "you can't live like a demon, or you faith isn't real", then you're smuggling behavior back in. Its a broken axiom.
You being confronted with temptation and relying on Jesus to flee from it is a work. That would be evidence of fruit and that your faith is legit. Its also evidence that you used your willpower so that God can work through you. That's dying to yourself, its a work, its extremely difficult and we shouldn't do everything we can to make sure people know this and can't escape it by pushing sola fide to the extreme.
I'm not talking about bootstrapping as in
"I donated money to so and so and now God see's me as righteous".
