Is there anything more peak Democrat than Obamacare?

Pass terrible legislation without reading it.

Lie about legislation and its impacts.

Use covid to cover up massive failure.

Blame Republicans for not continuing the charade and resorting to anti-democratic means to cover up.

Fix Barry to a tee - all sizzle no steak, all hat no cattle.

The real issue is that the GOP, despite a massive number of show votes when they were out of power, never repealed it when they took power. Unfortunately, the RINOs own it now.

The unfortunate reality is that this has put the democrats in a position to finger point and blame republicans for people losing their subsidies this open enrollment season.

Realitybites said:

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The real issue is that the GOP, despite a massive number of show votes when they were out of power, never repealed it when they took power. Unfortunately, the RINOs own it now.

The unfortunate reality is that this has put the democrats in a position to finger point and blame republicans for people losing their subsidies this open enrollment season.

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The legacy of McCain

As if another case study was needed demonstrating how government solutions to problems the government was never intended to "solve" (like making healthcare more affordable) virtually never succeed and usually just make the problem worse - Obamacare is it. And shame on the Republicans for not ending it when they've had the opportunity.

In one of my rentals on Texas coast I'm now paying more for home insurance than the entire mortgage payment was a decade ago. At this point I trust obamacare more than private insurance companies.

I think we might find peace in the middle east before we fix the real issue which is the cost of healthcare.

ron.reagan said:

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In one of my rentals on Texas coast I'm now paying more for home insurance than the entire mortgage payment was a decade ago. At this point I trust obamacare more than private insurance companies.

I think we might find peace in the middle east before we fix the real issue which is the cost of healthcare.

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Need the government out of it as much as possible. New laws in the future should be focused on pulling back, not adding more layers of regulation and bureaucracy. Everything the gvmt tries to do makes it worse.

I don't know how we could do it, but private health care insurance should not be a for profit enterprise. Top priority is shareholders and executive pay.....not customers or providers.

Obamacare was (and I emphsize "was") the left's attempt to impose single-payer on the Ameriican people. Fortunately, it's coming down and will not be rebuilt.

ron.reagan said:

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In one of my rentals on Texas coast I'm now paying more for home insurance than the entire mortgage payment was a decade ago. At this point I trust obamacare more than private insurance companies.

I think we might find peace in the middle east before we fix the real issue which is the cost of healthcare.

---

By what percentage have Obamacare premiums increased since its first year? What is the CAGR and actually increase during the last 15 years?

Obamacare was the right call, just short on implementation . I was on Obamacare for about a year due to a pre existing condition (normal premiums) and had to work to find a work around that cost me a a fortune. I don't know the answer, but it isn't the insurance companies. I also know we are the only industrialized country in the world that relies on Business and Gov't to subsidize HC. It doesn't work well.

ron.reagan said:

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In one of my rentals on Texas coast I'm now paying more for home insurance than the entire mortgage payment was a decade ago. At this point I trust obamacare more than private insurance companies.

I think we might find peace in the middle east before we fix the real issue which is the cost of healthcare.

---

I am starting to think that insurance companies should be regulated and run as public utilities.

U.S. business interests have been trying for years to level the playing field against the global production markets by removing the cost of healthcare from the business sector and giving it to the public sector. ObamaCare was constructed specifically to assist them in this endeavor.

ObamaCare was never built to last.
It wasn't meant to succeed, it was meant to collapse deliberately. The structure was too costly for individuals and too unstable for private markets to carry long term.

ObamaCare shifted healthcare costs from employers to employees but there was no wage increase to go with it. None. You were supposed to somehow afford double the cost with the same paycheck. And when you couldn't? That was the point.

It was never about giving people "choice." It was about removing choice, about pushing healthcare out of the private market and into a government run one. Dependency disguised as compassion.

So yes, ObamaCare "failed."
But it also succeeded, exactly the way it was supposed to.
And its replacement? Don't worry, it'll succeed, too. The same way.

Democrats have shutdown the government for 40 days because their signature legislation is a complete disaster.

I realize the oligarch media spins that it is all Republicans, but I do not understand how anyone with a brain cell could vote for these idiots.

Terrible

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Democrats have shutdown the government for 40 days because their signature legislation is a complete disaster.

I realize the oligarch media spins that it is all Republicans, but I do not understand how anyone with a brain cell could vote for these idiots.

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1. Abortion
2. White guilt
3. Butt sex
4. Free stuff

The entire party is held together by those four issues.

Realitybites said:

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The real issue is that the GOP, despite a massive number of show votes when they were out of power, never repealed it when they took power. Unfortunately, the RINOs own it now.

The unfortunate reality is that this has put the democrats in a position to finger point and blame republicans for people losing their subsidies this open enrollment season.

---

Also, they have not offered an alternative. The current system without some type of system for the millions on Obamacare is needed. Trump saying he will come up with something better is not going to pull votes.

Whether you agree or not, this IS a voting issue. People, who normally go Republican, WILL vote Democrat to protect their access to health care. I know numerous people, some attorneys in their own businesses that use it and will not vote GOP because of it. Health care is an issue. Bad policy with coverage is better than no policy without coverage.

FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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The real issue is that the GOP, despite a massive number of show votes when they were out of power, never repealed it when they took power. Unfortunately, the RINOs own it now.

The unfortunate reality is that this has put the democrats in a position to finger point and blame republicans for people losing their subsidies this open enrollment season.

---

Also, they have not offered an alternative. The current system without some type of system for the millions on Obamacare is needed. Trump saying he will come up with something better is not going to pull votes.

Whether you agree or not, this IS a voting issue. People, who normally go Republican, WILL vote Democrat to protect their access to health care. I know numerous people, some attorneys in their own businesses that use it and will not vote GOP because of it. Health care is an issue. Bad policy with coverage is better than no policy without coverage.

---

Do you think the average Democrat is smart enough to associated the cost of their Obamacare plan is related to Democrat's signature legislation of the century?

Harrison Bergeron said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

---

The real issue is that the GOP, despite a massive number of show votes when they were out of power, never repealed it when they took power. Unfortunately, the RINOs own it now.

The unfortunate reality is that this has put the democrats in a position to finger point and blame republicans for people losing their subsidies this open enrollment season.

---

Also, they have not offered an alternative. The current system without some type of system for the millions on Obamacare is needed. Trump saying he will come up with something better is not going to pull votes.

Whether you agree or not, this IS a voting issue. People, who normally go Republican, WILL vote Democrat to protect their access to health care. I know numerous people, some attorneys in their own businesses that use it and will not vote GOP because of it. Health care is an issue. Bad policy with coverage is better than no policy without coverage.

---

Do you think the average Democrat is smart enough to associated the cost of their Obamacare plan is related to Democrat's signature legislation of the century?

---

No. Personally, I think it is a huge mistake to rely on intelligence to prevail in an election.

The Dems have successfully, and Donald has helped them with his rhetoric, associated Dems and Obamacare with providing health care to everyone and Trump and the GOP as not caring if you have health care, a job or food.

Personally, believe it or not, I do think Trump really cares. His preferred methods are not good for a Democracy. 1st term Mnuchin, Pompeo, Barr, Haley, and even Kelly kept him between the rails. This group will not, they will just do...

This shutdown does not help.

FLBear5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

The real issue is that the GOP, despite a massive number of show votes when they were out of power, never repealed it when they took power. Unfortunately, the RINOs own it now.

The unfortunate reality is that this has put the democrats in a position to finger point and blame republicans for people losing their subsidies this open enrollment season.

---

Also, they have not offered an alternative. The current system without some type of system for the millions on Obamacare is needed. Trump saying he will come up with something better is not going to pull votes.

Whether you agree or not, this IS a voting issue. People, who normally go Republican, WILL vote Democrat to protect their access to health care. I know numerous people, some attorneys in their own businesses that use it and will not vote GOP because of it. Health care is an issue. Bad policy with coverage is better than no policy without coverage.

---

Do you think the average Democrat is smart enough to associated the cost of their Obamacare plan is related to Democrat's signature legislation of the century?

---

No. Personally, I think it is a huge mistake to rely on intelligence to prevail in an election.

The Dems have successfully, and Donald has helped them with his rhetoric, associated Dems and Obamacare with providing health care to everyone and Trump and the GOP as not caring if you have health care, a job or food.

Personally, believe it or not, I do think Trump really cares. His preferred methods are not good for a Democracy. 1st term Mnuchin, Pompeo, Barr, Haley, and even Kelly kept him between the rails. This group will not, they will just do...

This shutdown does not help.

---

What uniquely has Trump done that is "not good for democracy?"

Do you think punishing poor citizens for a political agenda is good for democracy?

Have to cone up with something better. Start back at the root issue- cost. Find out ways to address it.

Probably have to create an exception for health care stock- they dont need to be beholden to stock holders. And probably need to go even further, cap profits.

Health care used to just be a doctor coming by who had taken an oath to help people. Now it is technology that is legally required to make maximum profit. We need it to go back.

This would be a nightmare for current stockholders though. Would have to mitigate the fallout.

That's my first swing. There would be much more to do.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

---

The real issue is that the GOP, despite a massive number of show votes when they were out of power, never repealed it when they took power. Unfortunately, the RINOs own it now.

The unfortunate reality is that this has put the democrats in a position to finger point and blame republicans for people losing their subsidies this open enrollment season.

---

Also, they have not offered an alternative. The current system without some type of system for the millions on Obamacare is needed. Trump saying he will come up with something better is not going to pull votes.

Whether you agree or not, this IS a voting issue. People, who normally go Republican, WILL vote Democrat to protect their access to health care. I know numerous people, some attorneys in their own businesses that use it and will not vote GOP because of it. Health care is an issue. Bad policy with coverage is better than no policy without coverage.

---

Do you think the average Democrat is smart enough to associated the cost of their Obamacare plan is related to Democrat's signature legislation of the century?

---

No. Personally, I think it is a huge mistake to rely on intelligence to prevail in an election.

The Dems have successfully, and Donald has helped them with his rhetoric, associated Dems and Obamacare with providing health care to everyone and Trump and the GOP as not caring if you have health care, a job or food.

Personally, believe it or not, I do think Trump really cares. His preferred methods are not good for a Democracy. 1st term Mnuchin, Pompeo, Barr, Haley, and even Kelly kept him between the rails. This group will not, they will just do...

This shutdown does not help.

---

What uniquely has Trump done that is "not good for democracy?"

Do you think punishing poor citizens for a political agenda is good for democracy?

---

Said punishment is the farthest possible thing from democracy, but it does have the potential to keep the masses on the plantation forever, which brings a lot of jollies.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

The real issue is that the GOP, despite a massive number of show votes when they were out of power, never repealed it when they took power. Unfortunately, the RINOs own it now.

The unfortunate reality is that this has put the democrats in a position to finger point and blame republicans for people losing their subsidies this open enrollment season.

---

Also, they have not offered an alternative. The current system without some type of system for the millions on Obamacare is needed. Trump saying he will come up with something better is not going to pull votes.

Whether you agree or not, this IS a voting issue. People, who normally go Republican, WILL vote Democrat to protect their access to health care. I know numerous people, some attorneys in their own businesses that use it and will not vote GOP because of it. Health care is an issue. Bad policy with coverage is better than no policy without coverage.

---

Do you think the average Democrat is smart enough to associated the cost of their Obamacare plan is related to Democrat's signature legislation of the century?

---

No. Personally, I think it is a huge mistake to rely on intelligence to prevail in an election.

The Dems have successfully, and Donald has helped them with his rhetoric, associated Dems and Obamacare with providing health care to everyone and Trump and the GOP as not caring if you have health care, a job or food.

Personally, believe it or not, I do think Trump really cares. His preferred methods are not good for a Democracy. 1st term Mnuchin, Pompeo, Barr, Haley, and even Kelly kept him between the rails. This group will not, they will just do...

This shutdown does not help.

---

What uniquely has Trump done that is "not good for democracy?"

Do you think punishing poor citizens for a political agenda is good for democracy?

---

No, so Trump and Johnson should take Obamacare off the table. It is an impasse. Did the Dems submit a counter-offer?

By the way, this is what I am talking about not good. Trump coming out and saying don't even deal with them is not good for a process designed and built for compromise. Tough to walk that back, he (for the GOP) is basically taking the blame. And that is what people see. Good for a business negotiation, not so much for a Democracy where you have to be elected.


'Don't even bother dealing with them,' Trump says of Democrats' shutdown demands - POLITICO

Can someone explain the Democratic math on the kickback era to insurance companies:
- $1.2 T wanted
- 24M on Obamacare

How much do the Dems wat per patient for insurers?

If we had real media that would explain why Democrat rules make Obamacare so expensive ... but the oligarch media is going to continue to spread disinformation and blame Orange Man Bad.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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If we had real media that would explain why Democrat rules make Obamacare so expensive ... but the oligarch media is going to continue to spread disinformation and blame Orange Man Bad.

---

You are talking cost.

They are concerned with coverage. When you need medical care you don't give a **** about all the items you are bringing up to defend your position.

What does Trump and GOP offer to provide coverage? He creates a program that provides coverage AND is cheaper? NO ONE will be against it or him. You can't go fiscal conservative and leave people without medical coverage. You can't expect people to cheer when they have no medical.

Are you that far removed from people that live pay check to pay check to survive?

Harrison Bergeron said:

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If we had real media that would explain why Democrat rules make Obamacare so expensive ... but the oligarch media is going to continue to spread disinformation and blame Orange Man Bad.

---

so, young Hanky, does your employer, Starbucks subsidize your health care? Isn't that socialized medicine? What is your MAGA plan for HC? Gold Jesus has said he has one, but no-one has seen it. Trump lied? Damn! Just glad Mrs hanky-twink has govt healthcare she can support the twink with. Didn't think you Maga wierdo were again socialized medicine, but haven't provided a plan whatsoever. Fat boy has said has has a plan...He has been with that BS for 10 years. HC has nothing to do with Obama or Biden. All pig mans! Enjoy your socialized subsidized by the govt HC.

J.R. said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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If we had real media that would explain why Democrat rules make Obamacare so expensive ... but the oligarch media is going to continue to spread disinformation and blame Orange Man Bad.

---

so, young Hanky, does your employer, Starbucks subsidize your health care? Isn't that socialized medicine? What is your MAGA plan for HC? Gold Jesus has said he has one, but no-one has seen it. Trump lied? Damn! Just glad Mrs hanky-twink has govt healthcare she can support the twink with. Didn't think you Maga wierdo were again socialized medicine, but haven't provided a plan whatsoever. Fat boy has said has has a plan...He has been with that BS for 10 years. HC has nothing to do with Obama or Biden. All pig mans! Enjoy your socialized subsidized by the govt HC.

---

What a clever and articulate post……..if you're like 9 years old.

Johnny Bear said:

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J.R. said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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If we had real media that would explain why Democrat rules make Obamacare so expensive ... but the oligarch media is going to continue to spread disinformation and blame Orange Man Bad.

---

so, young Hanky, does your employer, Starbucks subsidize your health care? Isn't that socialized medicine? What is your MAGA plan for HC? Gold Jesus has said he has one, but no-one has seen it. Trump lied? Damn! Just glad Mrs hanky-twink has govt healthcare she can support the twink with. Didn't think you Maga wierdo were again socialized medicine, but haven't provided a plan whatsoever. Fat boy has said has has a plan...He has been with that BS for 10 years. HC has nothing to do with Obama or Biden. All pig mans! Enjoy your socialized subsidized by the govt HC.

---

What a clever and articulate post……..if you're like 9 years old.

---

so little Johnny is on social medicine also....LJ, does anyone subsidize your healthcare? govt (teachers), employer , Govt cheddar like Assman? You MAGA turds are just not smart. Not, to mention the hypocrisy is amazing out of you people.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Can someone explain the Democratic math on the kickback era to insurance companies:
- $1.2 T wanted
- 24M on Obamacare

How much do the Dems wat per patient for insurers?

---

Both sides have been talking now about HSA accounts for people and the money going straight to them. Smart move to put alternatives up. Now, either have a program ready in January or approve the extension with the stipulation that the new system will take its place on a date certain. Done. Not that hard...

J.R. said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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J.R. said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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If we had real media that would explain why Democrat rules make Obamacare so expensive ... but the oligarch media is going to continue to spread disinformation and blame Orange Man Bad.

---

so, young Hanky, does your employer, Starbucks subsidize your health care? Isn't that socialized medicine? What is your MAGA plan for HC? Gold Jesus has said he has one, but no-one has seen it. Trump lied? Damn! Just glad Mrs hanky-twink has govt healthcare she can support the twink with. Didn't think you Maga wierdo were again socialized medicine, but haven't provided a plan whatsoever. Fat boy has said has has a plan...He has been with that BS for 10 years. HC has nothing to do with Obama or Biden. All pig mans! Enjoy your socialized subsidized by the govt HC.

---

What a clever and articulate post……..if you're like 9 years old.

---

so little Johnny is on social medicine also....LJ, does anyone subsidize your healthcare? govt (teachers), employer , Govt cheddar like Assman? You MAGA turds are just not smart. Not, to mention the hypocrisy is amazing out of you people.

---

Are you really claiming that health care benefits that employers offer employees is a subsidy?

Tying health insurance to employers is bananas. It is just another way to tie people down. Let the market open up for individuals. That would be a massive group of multiple ages and health condition without single payer. Let the healthcare providers and insurance companies compete. This will bring the costs down.

Keep the federal government out of doing anything but providing a place for individuals to have the policies they are considering evaluated for coverages.

EatMoreSalmon said:

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Tying health insurance to employers is bananas. It is just another way to tie people down. Let the market open up for individuals. That would be a massive group of multiple ages and health condition without single payer. Let the healthcare providers and insurance companies compete. This will bring the costs down.

Keep the federal government out of doing anything but providing a place for individuals to have the policies they are considering evaluated for coverages.

---

The issue I see is about payment. You will need some type of regulation to keep the predators out (as ironic as that sounds, as they are all predators). There will need to be some oversight.

As bad as Obama care was for increasing healthcare prices, it was great for getting Americans coverage. For many it was a breath of fresh air. It really saved people from a lifetime of medical debt.

I have to yawn a bit about the Republican zealots stance against it, because other than a few very specific and narrow measures, Republicans have signed off on increasing prices too.

Show up with a real plan to get rid of the ACA yet keep healthcare costs down, I will listen! But just complaining, it gets so old.

Porteroso said:

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As bad as Obama care was for increasing healthcare prices, it was great for getting Americans coverage. For many it was a breath of fresh air. It really saved people from a lifetime of medical debt.

I have to yawn a bit about the Republican zealots stance against it, because other than a few very specific and narrow measures, Republicans have signed off on increasing prices too.

Show up with a real plan to get rid of the ACA yet keep healthcare costs down, I will listen! But just complaining, it gets so old.

---

You would have to have some sources of data to back up that first paragraph. We looked at the marketplace the first year, and it was anything but cheaper for the same coverage.

Some people with preexisting conditions could have benefitted as their options would have been more limited. People who were dirt poor and no employer insurance would have benefitted with the subsidies. Those two groups together would both be more costly to insurers. It was never going to be cheaper for anyone else.

See the option I presented above. Junk policies could be unmasked by government policy evaluators. Make all policies individual to keep it out of the employer influence and from segregating "groups." Make insurers actually compete for customers while not getting away with convoluted policy language.

GrowlTowel said:

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J.R. said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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J.R. said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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If we had real media that would explain why Democrat rules make Obamacare so expensive ... but the oligarch media is going to continue to spread disinformation and blame Orange Man Bad.

---

so, young Hanky, does your employer, Starbucks subsidize your health care? Isn't that socialized medicine? What is your MAGA plan for HC? Gold Jesus has said he has one, but no-one has seen it. Trump lied? Damn! Just glad Mrs hanky-twink has govt healthcare she can support the twink with. Didn't think you Maga wierdo were again socialized medicine, but haven't provided a plan whatsoever. Fat boy has said has has a plan...He has been with that BS for 10 years. HC has nothing to do with Obama or Biden. All pig mans! Enjoy your socialized subsidized by the govt HC.

---

What a clever and articulate post……..if you're like 9 years old.

---

so little Johnny is on social medicine also....LJ, does anyone subsidize your healthcare? govt (teachers), employer , Govt cheddar like Assman? You MAGA turds are just not smart. Not, to mention the hypocrisy is amazing out of you people.

---

Are you really claiming that health care benefits that employers offer employees is a subsidy?

---

Of course I am. Do you pay 100% of ur premiums? If not, and your employer pays a portion. That is a subsidy. I don't chime in on what I haven't had experience or understood well. During my corp days , I was a c suite executive and on the compensation committee. It is a subsidy that is sold as part of your compensation package. We are the only industrialized country in the world who relies on business and govt to subsidize. Our H C is an absolute disaster. Still waiting on Trumpy plan that he has been saying he has it. Right on Liar in chief!!

J.R. said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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J.R. said:

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Johnny Bear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

If we had real media that would explain why Democrat rules make Obamacare so expensive ... but the oligarch media is going to continue to spread disinformation and blame Orange Man Bad.

---

so, young Hanky, does your employer, Starbucks subsidize your health care? Isn't that socialized medicine? What is your MAGA plan for HC? Gold Jesus has said he has one, but no-one has seen it. Trump lied? Damn! Just glad Mrs hanky-twink has govt healthcare she can support the twink with. Didn't think you Maga wierdo were again socialized medicine, but haven't provided a plan whatsoever. Fat boy has said has has a plan...He has been with that BS for 10 years. HC has nothing to do with Obama or Biden. All pig mans! Enjoy your socialized subsidized by the govt HC.

---

What a clever and articulate post……..if you're like 9 years old.

---

so little Johnny is on social medicine also....LJ, does anyone subsidize your healthcare? govt (teachers), employer , Govt cheddar like Assman? You MAGA turds are just not smart. Not, to mention the hypocrisy is amazing out of you people.

---

Are you really claiming that health care benefits that employers offer employees is a subsidy?

---

Of course I am. Do you pay 100% of ur premiums? If not, and your employer pays a portion. That is a subsidy. I don't chime in on what I haven't had experience or understood well. During my corp days , I was a c suite executive and on the compensation committee. It is a subsidy that is sold as part of your compensation package. We are the only industrialized country in the world who relies on business and govt to subsidize. Our H C is an absolute disaster. Still waiting on Trumpy plan that he has been saying he has it. Right on Liar in chief!!

---

This guy has turned out to be a real freak-show.