midgett said:

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Earlier you bit-h and moan about government and insurance still being involved. Now you're calling it cynical to believe they have to be heavily involved. (In the meantime, you offer ZERO suggestions of your own.)

Yes, it would be radical. Yes, expecting our Congress people to upset big contributors to their campaigns may be nearly impossible. But that is why the current system doesn't work. Too many hands in the pot.

Probably the only viable way to get started would be like charter schools. You start small. Allow some doctors, some corporations, some consumers to use a similar system. If it starts showing evidence that it is better, more and more will demand it. It only takes a spark to get a fire going (written by a Baylor man!).

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The only thing this dude knows is he wants trillions of kickbacks to Big Insurance. That's his only policy position.

FLBear5630 said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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ABC BEAR said:

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What a bunch of cry-tits. We Boomers had to struggle with 19% interest rates when we were his age. We made it big, so can he.

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Do you really think that if your generation traded places with Gen Z that you would be managing better? If so, what makes you think so?

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Well, for one thing we did it once, with recessions, 19% interest, Stagnation, Carter, war, Watergate and gas shortage. So, we have a track record.

Second, we were willing to do what it takes. If a job was somewhere else, we went. If we needed housing, we commuted. Our expectations were based on what we could afford, not what we thought we deserved.

We were able to reduce our needs.We didnt have to have a certain level cell phone, computer, etc... We fixed stuff that broke ourselves and took care of our cars and houses ourselves.

Finally, We were more independent, valued self-reliance. We actually believed it was better to live in a smaller house, make less money and not be able to do things as long as you did it yourself. There was value in doing it yourself, even if it was less. Now, people would sell out for more and could care less if they did it themselves.

For those reasons, i think you would get the exact same results if generations switched.

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Rates don't exist in a vacuum...prices do. Ya'll definitely had hurdles and economic issues, but lets not pretend like its decision making or morals that's the problem. The difference between wages and essentials is astronomical between your generation and mine (millennial).

Median home price in 1980: 3x median household income
Median home price today: 8x median household income
Down payments alone today exceed entire annual salaries for even some of the highest paid professions...

The most eye opening stats is wage growth vs. essentials.

Wages: 15%-20% growth since the 1970s
Housing: 120%-150% increase in cost
Tuition: 400% increase
Healthcare: 200% increase
Childcare: 100% increase.

Wage growth is the core bottleneck. Its THE problem. When workers produced more, they got paid more...that stopped in the early to mid 1970s.

Oldbear83 said:

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Porteroso said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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Porteroso said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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The cause of every problem you listed is government intervention.

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So just go back to if you can afford Healthcare, you get it, if you can't, die? If you are rich, buy a house, if you are middle class, rent in a bad neighborhood?

The topic of this thread is not really about that. It's about these things costing much more than they used to. Cost of housing for example, has not vastly increased relative to wages because of the government. That is false.

And the entire reason we had Obamacare is because people were being priced out of Healthcare by the tens of millions. Some with pre-existing conditions couldn't get good coverage at any price.

So that is false as well. Rising cost of living, give me a break.

Youre doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just playing the blame game. No solution.

So take health care, how do you get government out of it, and also have it be affordable? I'm talking 1950s affordable, not a reset to how bad it was before Obamacare.

Or housing. How do you make housing affordable to young people?

Or cost of living. If we shelve the idea of mass government subsidy of everything commonly used in living, how do we make diapers cost something reasonable again, or anything else?

Do you have any ideas, at all?

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Government caused everything you listed. Do you really think more government will fix them?

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Did you actually read my post? I acknowledged your position, but simply pulling out of Healthcare is not an option. It is only viable if the issues that created Obamacare were addressed. So how would you fix the issue of affordability, that created Obamacare?

Are you able to engage intellectually, at all?

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This is a very dishonest post from you, Porteroso.

You made it very clear that you want government to solve these problems, when it is government which made things this bad. GrowlTowel made a very salient observation, and all you can do is whine 'are you able to engage intellectually, at all'

It appears that the intellectual incompetent here would be you.

Speaking for myself, I'd love to discuss options for improving healthcare and cost of living. Pretending the government is a good way to do it is absurdly foolish, and attacking others for pointing that out only makes you look like you are limited to ranting.

So, what precisely are your suggestions, sir?

Walk the walk or STFU.

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I have a list of suggestions, actually a whole plan to decouple health care from stockholder interest, price fixing with government oversight but allowing health care professionals to still set prices, cost cutting, simplifying paperwork, simplifying fees, forcing providers to provide up front pricing, limiting non insured prices to a percentage over the lowest negotiated rate per calendar year, limiting insurance company profit by forcing dividend payments (or credit) when insurance companies end up with excess profit, reforming malpractice lawsuits, that's most of it.

But before we get into that, I want to know, how you expect to decouple government intervention from Healthcare, without straight up ruining it even worse. Like first, take a couple that paid 1200/month before ACA, and now pays 6000/month. Dont be so naive to think that just by taking government out, they go back to 1200/month. I doubt it drops more than 15%. Or take pre-existing conditions. It would not just be political suicide, but unconscionable to tell them whoops our bad, you aren't covered anymore and no amount of money can buy you insurance.

So how do you address these issues that impede any practical attempt to take the government our of health care?

And yes, the government must fix it. It took a big issue, unaffordability, and made it worse. It cannot just throw America into chaos and way worse unaffordability.

Doc Holliday said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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ABC BEAR said:

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What a bunch of cry-tits. We Boomers had to struggle with 19% interest rates when we were his age. We made it big, so can he.

---

Do you really think that if your generation traded places with Gen Z that you would be managing better? If so, what makes you think so?

---

Well, for one thing we did it once, with recessions, 19% interest, Stagnation, Carter, war, Watergate and gas shortage. So, we have a track record.

Second, we were willing to do what it takes. If a job was somewhere else, we went. If we needed housing, we commuted. Our expectations were based on what we could afford, not what we thought we deserved.

We were able to reduce our needs.We didnt have to have a certain level cell phone, computer, etc... We fixed stuff that broke ourselves and took care of our cars and houses ourselves.

Finally, We were more independent, valued self-reliance. We actually believed it was better to live in a smaller house, make less money and not be able to do things as long as you did it yourself. There was value in doing it yourself, even if it was less. Now, people would sell out for more and could care less if they did it themselves.

For those reasons, i think you would get the exact same results if generations switched.

---

Rates don't exist in a vacuum...prices do. Ya'll definitely had hurdles and economic issues, but lets not pretend like its decision making or morals that's the problem. The difference between wages and essentials is astronomical between your generation and mine (millennial).

Median home price in 1980: 3x median household income
Median home price today: 8x median household income
Down payments alone today exceed entire annual salaries for even some of the highest paid professions...

The most eye opening stats is wage growth vs. essentials.

Wages: 15%-20% growth since the 1970s
Housing: 120%-150% increase in cost
Tuition: 400% increase
Healthcare: 200% increase
Childcare: 100% increase.

Wage growth is the core bottleneck. It's THE problem. When workers produced more, they got paid more...that stopped in the early to mid 1970s.

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You're comparing apples and oranges.

Actual wage growth is far higher. 6k in 1970 is 70k today.

I have already posted specific suggestions. Still waiting for you.