J.R. said:

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hodedofome said:

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KaiBear said:

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hodedofome said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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our entire economy is becoming centered around providing heroic life prolonging care to baby boomers at the expense of every other living generation's ability to build a life and have a home and a family https://t.co/N1x4wtXLRV

— doomer (@uncledoomer) December 24, 2025

---

I refuse to let this happen to my family.

I don't pay the medical bills when they come in. I haven't seen a poor doctor or a hospital with crappy landscaping. They are doing alright without my additional funds.

The reality is if I pay the bill these days the doctor is getting his cut, but so is the PE fund manager. I have no desire to contribute to a PE fund manager's 3rd vacation home.

---

I am unclear what you are representing.

Have you accepted medical services from a doctor and / or hospital ; but now refuse to pay their invoices for those services ?

---

I don't think you can legally call what I have received as accepted medical services.

I am told to show up early, whereby I wait until the doctor is ready. In no other business is this acceptable except for working with our dumb federal agencies.

The doctor decides what he wants to do to me, but has no idea how much it may cost. "It's complicated and I can't be expected to know that." Well I've worked in complicated businesses all my life, and we always give the customer the price before they buy. And they hold us to it.

If I'm lucky, I'll find an office manager who can give me a price, but there is little chance that's the actual price. I'll get bills from companies I've never heard of, and for things like facility fees which should be illegal. I never agreed to any of these things, they just come in for a period of months and I'm expected to pay them. In no other business is this type of behavior acceptable.

Tell me, when you don't pay a medical bill, what happens? I'll tell you what happens when I don't pay - nothing. Nothing happens.

---

you are a thief and NO our HC is way effed

---

If he's telling the truth about just ignoring bills he doesn't like, he may be the first person to earn a 2-digit FICO score.

J.R. said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

The cause of every problem you listed is government intervention.

---

So just go back to if you can afford Healthcare, you get it, if you can't, die? If you are rich, buy a house, if you are middle class, rent in a bad neighborhood?

The topic of this thread is not really about that. It's about these things costing much more than they used to. Cost of housing for example, has not vastly increased relative to wages because of the government. That is false.

And the entire reason we had Obamacare is because people were being priced out of Healthcare by the tens of millions. Some with pre-existing conditions couldn't get good coverage at any price.

So that is false as well. Rising cost of living, give me a break.

Youre doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just playing the blame game. No solution.

So take health care, how do you get government out of it, and also have it be affordable? I'm talking 1950s affordable, not a reset to how bad it was before Obamacare.

Or housing. How do you make housing affordable to young people?

Or cost of living. If we shelve the idea of mass government subsidy of everything commonly used in living, how do we make diapers cost something reasonable again, or anything else?

Do you have any ideas, at all?

---

This is a Baylor message Board, almost all of us would be considered "Haves". Some us considered the elite, top 1%. These are not catastrophic issues. Worse case, discretionary funds reduce.

People on here talk in terms of good investments, investment opportunities, sound financial management, debt loads, and chiding people for not paying off their credit cards monthly (the irresponsible ones).

So, why do you think we will come up with solutions for real issues impacting people that as close to Baylor they can get is driving by on I35? It does not impact any of us enough. Now, if it does impact us or someone we care about, like the drug issues, than we are good with moving an Aircraft Carrier Battle Group to the Caribbean and blowing up any boat heading north no matter how much it costs.

So, buying a house to us is about a good deal, good interest rates and resale. The housing issues is an opportunity to make revenue from rent. Milton Friedman is great...

Health Insurance is a fringe benefit we get through our jobs and is subsidized by the Company. Everything is great, leave it alone we can get health care don't **** with it. No one on here would be caught dead with ACA, so let it escalate.

That is why there are no solutions, the problem has not hit us "Haves" enough for us to give a *****

---

Maybe for the older Baylor grads what you typed is true.

Not for the younger grads, or ones that get into Baylor and only were able to attend because of massive financial aid (grants, scholarships, loans) and come from low middle class or even poverty. And yes there are Baylor students like that.

---

On this Board, taking part in our conversations? I can count 2, maybe 3 that come from working class families. Not owning 1000 acre ranches, but pumping gas or small businesses?

The issues we discuss dont really effect us. How many on here have ACA? How many here cant qualify for a mortgage? Not lecturing, stating a fact. For those items, let the rates go up. For drugs and immigration, use the military costs be damned..

Obamacare and even housing affect us as a group less, so we dont care if the rates skyrocket, it is even the persons fault for being on ACA, losers...

---

I'd be curious to see whom on this board are on ACA? I know most of you get your govt cheddar HC from your job or govt. (that is a problem). I was on the ACA for about 1yr due to a pre-existing condition and could not get insurance, anywhere. I paid 100% of the premiums and it was terrible. I finally found a work around but cost me some$. Had to create and LLC with me as member and kids as employees and was able to get a PPO and pay $2200/month for me and 25yr old son. and got a concierge dr. while I was at it. Pricey.

---

My brother is an attorney, hung his shingle, self-employed. You know, everything this Board would say is the "right way" to do it. He is getting killed by health care costs, he has diabetes so insurance is a nightmare. ACA is all he can get. Such is the "for profit" health care system, Milton Friedman would be proud...

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

The cause of every problem you listed is government intervention.

---

So just go back to if you can afford Healthcare, you get it, if you can't, die? If you are rich, buy a house, if you are middle class, rent in a bad neighborhood?

The topic of this thread is not really about that. It's about these things costing much more than they used to. Cost of housing for example, has not vastly increased relative to wages because of the government. That is false.

And the entire reason we had Obamacare is because people were being priced out of Healthcare by the tens of millions. Some with pre-existing conditions couldn't get good coverage at any price.

So that is false as well. Rising cost of living, give me a break.

Youre doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just playing the blame game. No solution.

So take health care, how do you get government out of it, and also have it be affordable? I'm talking 1950s affordable, not a reset to how bad it was before Obamacare.

Or housing. How do you make housing affordable to young people?

Or cost of living. If we shelve the idea of mass government subsidy of everything commonly used in living, how do we make diapers cost something reasonable again, or anything else?

Do you have any ideas, at all?

---

This is a Baylor message Board, almost all of us would be considered "Haves". Some us considered the elite, top 1%. These are not catastrophic issues. Worse case, discretionary funds reduce.

People on here talk in terms of good investments, investment opportunities, sound financial management, debt loads, and chiding people for not paying off their credit cards monthly (the irresponsible ones).

So, why do you think we will come up with solutions for real issues impacting people that as close to Baylor they can get is driving by on I35? It does not impact any of us enough. Now, if it does impact us or someone we care about, like the drug issues, than we are good with moving an Aircraft Carrier Battle Group to the Caribbean and blowing up any boat heading north no matter how much it costs.

So, buying a house to us is about a good deal, good interest rates and resale. The housing issues is an opportunity to make revenue from rent. Milton Friedman is great...

Health Insurance is a fringe benefit we get through our jobs and is subsidized by the Company. Everything is great, leave it alone we can get health care don't **** with it. No one on here would be caught dead with ACA, so let it escalate.

That is why there are no solutions, the problem has not hit us "Haves" enough for us to give a *****

---

Maybe for the older Baylor grads what you typed is true.

Not for the younger grads, or ones that get into Baylor and only were able to attend because of massive financial aid (grants, scholarships, loans) and come from low middle class or even poverty. And yes there are Baylor students like that.

---

On this Board, taking part in our conversations? I can count 2, maybe 3 that come from working class families. Not owning 1000 acre ranches, but pumping gas or small businesses?

The issues we discuss dont really effect us. How many on here have ACA? How many here cant qualify for a mortgage? Not lecturing, stating a fact. For those items, let the rates go up. For drugs and immigration, use the military costs be damned..

Obamacare and even housing affect us as a group less, so we dont care if the rates skyrocket, it is even the persons fault for being on ACA, losers...

---

I could count dozens on this board. Maybe not ones that don't qualify for a mortgage. But dozens that come from working class families and are average middle class or just slightly above now and don't own land but just a house.

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

The cause of every problem you listed is government intervention.

---

So just go back to if you can afford Healthcare, you get it, if you can't, die? If you are rich, buy a house, if you are middle class, rent in a bad neighborhood?

The topic of this thread is not really about that. It's about these things costing much more than they used to. Cost of housing for example, has not vastly increased relative to wages because of the government. That is false.

And the entire reason we had Obamacare is because people were being priced out of Healthcare by the tens of millions. Some with pre-existing conditions couldn't get good coverage at any price.

So that is false as well. Rising cost of living, give me a break.

Youre doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just playing the blame game. No solution.

So take health care, how do you get government out of it, and also have it be affordable? I'm talking 1950s affordable, not a reset to how bad it was before Obamacare.

Or housing. How do you make housing affordable to young people?

Or cost of living. If we shelve the idea of mass government subsidy of everything commonly used in living, how do we make diapers cost something reasonable again, or anything else?

Do you have any ideas, at all?

---

This is a Baylor message Board, almost all of us would be considered "Haves". Some us considered the elite, top 1%. These are not catastrophic issues. Worse case, discretionary funds reduce.

People on here talk in terms of good investments, investment opportunities, sound financial management, debt loads, and chiding people for not paying off their credit cards monthly (the irresponsible ones).

So, why do you think we will come up with solutions for real issues impacting people that as close to Baylor they can get is driving by on I35? It does not impact any of us enough. Now, if it does impact us or someone we care about, like the drug issues, than we are good with moving an Aircraft Carrier Battle Group to the Caribbean and blowing up any boat heading north no matter how much it costs.

So, buying a house to us is about a good deal, good interest rates and resale. The housing issues is an opportunity to make revenue from rent. Milton Friedman is great...

Health Insurance is a fringe benefit we get through our jobs and is subsidized by the Company. Everything is great, leave it alone we can get health care don't **** with it. No one on here would be caught dead with ACA, so let it escalate.

That is why there are no solutions, the problem has not hit us "Haves" enough for us to give a *****

---

Maybe for the older Baylor grads what you typed is true.

Not for the younger grads, or ones that get into Baylor and only were able to attend because of massive financial aid (grants, scholarships, loans) and come from low middle class or even poverty. And yes there are Baylor students like that.

---

On this Board, taking part in our conversations? I can count 2, maybe 3 that come from working class families. Not owning 1000 acre ranches, but pumping gas or small businesses?

The issues we discuss dont really effect us. How many on here have ACA? How many here cant qualify for a mortgage? Not lecturing, stating a fact. For those items, let the rates go up. For drugs and immigration, use the military costs be damned..

Obamacare and even housing affect us as a group less, so we dont care if the rates skyrocket, it is even the persons fault for being on ACA, losers...

---

I could count dozens on this board. Maybe not ones that don't qualify for a mortgage. But dozens that come from working class families and are average middle class or just slightly above now and don't own land but just a house.

---

Fair enough. They don't speak up, only seem to hear from the CEO types or those that are into worldwide traveling. I am glad to hear there are more in the middle to upper-middle of the bell curve of income. I figured the housing would impact more on here than the ACA.

Do you think this Board is a good cross-section of the electorate?

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

The cause of every problem you listed is government intervention.

---

So just go back to if you can afford Healthcare, you get it, if you can't, die? If you are rich, buy a house, if you are middle class, rent in a bad neighborhood?

The topic of this thread is not really about that. It's about these things costing much more than they used to. Cost of housing for example, has not vastly increased relative to wages because of the government. That is false.

And the entire reason we had Obamacare is because people were being priced out of Healthcare by the tens of millions. Some with pre-existing conditions couldn't get good coverage at any price.

So that is false as well. Rising cost of living, give me a break.

Youre doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just playing the blame game. No solution.

So take health care, how do you get government out of it, and also have it be affordable? I'm talking 1950s affordable, not a reset to how bad it was before Obamacare.

Or housing. How do you make housing affordable to young people?

Or cost of living. If we shelve the idea of mass government subsidy of everything commonly used in living, how do we make diapers cost something reasonable again, or anything else?

Do you have any ideas, at all?

---

This is a Baylor message Board, almost all of us would be considered "Haves". Some us considered the elite, top 1%. These are not catastrophic issues. Worse case, discretionary funds reduce.

People on here talk in terms of good investments, investment opportunities, sound financial management, debt loads, and chiding people for not paying off their credit cards monthly (the irresponsible ones).

So, why do you think we will come up with solutions for real issues impacting people that as close to Baylor they can get is driving by on I35? It does not impact any of us enough. Now, if it does impact us or someone we care about, like the drug issues, than we are good with moving an Aircraft Carrier Battle Group to the Caribbean and blowing up any boat heading north no matter how much it costs.

So, buying a house to us is about a good deal, good interest rates and resale. The housing issues is an opportunity to make revenue from rent. Milton Friedman is great...

Health Insurance is a fringe benefit we get through our jobs and is subsidized by the Company. Everything is great, leave it alone we can get health care don't **** with it. No one on here would be caught dead with ACA, so let it escalate.

That is why there are no solutions, the problem has not hit us "Haves" enough for us to give a *****

---

Maybe for the older Baylor grads what you typed is true.

Not for the younger grads, or ones that get into Baylor and only were able to attend because of massive financial aid (grants, scholarships, loans) and come from low middle class or even poverty. And yes there are Baylor students like that.

---

On this Board, taking part in our conversations? I can count 2, maybe 3 that come from working class families. Not owning 1000 acre ranches, but pumping gas or small businesses?

The issues we discuss dont really effect us. How many on here have ACA? How many here cant qualify for a mortgage? Not lecturing, stating a fact. For those items, let the rates go up. For drugs and immigration, use the military costs be damned..

Obamacare and even housing affect us as a group less, so we dont care if the rates skyrocket, it is even the persons fault for being on ACA, losers...

---

I could count dozens on this board. Maybe not ones that don't qualify for a mortgage. But dozens that come from working class families and are average middle class or just slightly above now and don't own land but just a house.

---

Fair enough. They don't speak up, only seem to hear from the CEO types or those that are into worldwide traveling. I am glad to hear there are more in the middle to upper-middle of the bell curve of income. I figured the housing would impact more on here than the ACA.

Do you think this Board is a good cross-section of the electorate?

---

I don't think you're paying close enough attention. There are a few jumbo shrimpers, but not a bunch. There's a few loudmouth pretenders, too.

FLBear5630 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

The cause of every problem you listed is government intervention.

---

So just go back to if you can afford Healthcare, you get it, if you can't, die? If you are rich, buy a house, if you are middle class, rent in a bad neighborhood?

The topic of this thread is not really about that. It's about these things costing much more than they used to. Cost of housing for example, has not vastly increased relative to wages because of the government. That is false.

And the entire reason we had Obamacare is because people were being priced out of Healthcare by the tens of millions. Some with pre-existing conditions couldn't get good coverage at any price.

So that is false as well. Rising cost of living, give me a break.

Youre doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just playing the blame game. No solution.

So take health care, how do you get government out of it, and also have it be affordable? I'm talking 1950s affordable, not a reset to how bad it was before Obamacare.

Or housing. How do you make housing affordable to young people?

Or cost of living. If we shelve the idea of mass government subsidy of everything commonly used in living, how do we make diapers cost something reasonable again, or anything else?

Do you have any ideas, at all?

---

This is a Baylor message Board, almost all of us would be considered "Haves". Some us considered the elite, top 1%. These are not catastrophic issues. Worse case, discretionary funds reduce.

People on here talk in terms of good investments, investment opportunities, sound financial management, debt loads, and chiding people for not paying off their credit cards monthly (the irresponsible ones).

So, why do you think we will come up with solutions for real issues impacting people that as close to Baylor they can get is driving by on I35? It does not impact any of us enough. Now, if it does impact us or someone we care about, like the drug issues, than we are good with moving an Aircraft Carrier Battle Group to the Caribbean and blowing up any boat heading north no matter how much it costs.

So, buying a house to us is about a good deal, good interest rates and resale. The housing issues is an opportunity to make revenue from rent. Milton Friedman is great...

Health Insurance is a fringe benefit we get through our jobs and is subsidized by the Company. Everything is great, leave it alone we can get health care don't **** with it. No one on here would be caught dead with ACA, so let it escalate.

That is why there are no solutions, the problem has not hit us "Haves" enough for us to give a *****

---

Maybe for the older Baylor grads what you typed is true.

Not for the younger grads, or ones that get into Baylor and only were able to attend because of massive financial aid (grants, scholarships, loans) and come from low middle class or even poverty. And yes there are Baylor students like that.

---

On this Board, taking part in our conversations? I can count 2, maybe 3 that come from working class families. Not owning 1000 acre ranches, but pumping gas or small businesses?

The issues we discuss dont really effect us. How many on here have ACA? How many here cant qualify for a mortgage? Not lecturing, stating a fact. For those items, let the rates go up. For drugs and immigration, use the military costs be damned..

Obamacare and even housing affect us as a group less, so we dont care if the rates skyrocket, it is even the persons fault for being on ACA, losers...

---

I'd be curious to see whom on this board are on ACA? I know most of you get your govt cheddar HC from your job or govt. (that is a problem). I was on the ACA for about 1yr due to a pre-existing condition and could not get insurance, anywhere. I paid 100% of the premiums and it was terrible. I finally found a work around but cost me some$. Had to create and LLC with me as member and kids as employees and was able to get a PPO and pay $2200/month for me and 25yr old son. and got a concierge dr. while I was at it. Pricey.

---

My brother is an attorney, hung his shingle, self-employed. You know, everything this Board would say is the "right way" to do it. He is getting killed by health care costs, he has diabetes so insurance is a nightmare. ACA is all he can get. Such is the "for profit" health care system, Milton Friedman would be proud...

---

feel

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

The cause of every problem you listed is government intervention.

---

So just go back to if you can afford Healthcare, you get it, if you can't, die? If you are rich, buy a house, if you are middle class, rent in a bad neighborhood?

The topic of this thread is not really about that. It's about these things costing much more than they used to. Cost of housing for example, has not vastly increased relative to wages because of the government. That is false.

And the entire reason we had Obamacare is because people were being priced out of Healthcare by the tens of millions. Some with pre-existing conditions couldn't get good coverage at any price.

So that is false as well. Rising cost of living, give me a break.

Youre doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just playing the blame game. No solution.

So take health care, how do you get government out of it, and also have it be affordable? I'm talking 1950s affordable, not a reset to how bad it was before Obamacare.

Or housing. How do you make housing affordable to young people?

Or cost of living. If we shelve the idea of mass government subsidy of everything commonly used in living, how do we make diapers cost something reasonable again, or anything else?

Do you have any ideas, at all?

---

This is a Baylor message Board, almost all of us would be considered "Haves". Some us considered the elite, top 1%. These are not catastrophic issues. Worse case, discretionary funds reduce.

People on here talk in terms of good investments, investment opportunities, sound financial management, debt loads, and chiding people for not paying off their credit cards monthly (the irresponsible ones).

So, why do you think we will come up with solutions for real issues impacting people that as close to Baylor they can get is driving by on I35? It does not impact any of us enough. Now, if it does impact us or someone we care about, like the drug issues, than we are good with moving an Aircraft Carrier Battle Group to the Caribbean and blowing up any boat heading north no matter how much it costs.

So, buying a house to us is about a good deal, good interest rates and resale. The housing issues is an opportunity to make revenue from rent. Milton Friedman is great...

Health Insurance is a fringe benefit we get through our jobs and is subsidized by the Company. Everything is great, leave it alone we can get health care don't **** with it. No one on here would be caught dead with ACA, so let it escalate.

That is why there are no solutions, the problem has not hit us "Haves" enough for us to give a *****

---

Maybe for the older Baylor grads what you typed is true.

Not for the younger grads, or ones that get into Baylor and only were able to attend because of massive financial aid (grants, scholarships, loans) and come from low middle class or even poverty. And yes there are Baylor students like that.

---

On this Board, taking part in our conversations? I can count 2, maybe 3 that come from working class families. Not owning 1000 acre ranches, but pumping gas or small businesses?

The issues we discuss dont really effect us. How many on here have ACA? How many here cant qualify for a mortgage? Not lecturing, stating a fact. For those items, let the rates go up. For drugs and immigration, use the military costs be damned..

Obamacare and even housing affect us as a group less, so we dont care if the rates skyrocket, it is even the persons fault for being on ACA, losers...

---

I could count dozens on this board. Maybe not ones that don't qualify for a mortgage. But dozens that come from working class families and are average middle class or just slightly above now and don't own land but just a house.

---

Good luck explaining it to him.

GrowlTowel said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

The cause of every problem you listed is government intervention.

---

So just go back to if you can afford Healthcare, you get it, if you can't, die? If you are rich, buy a house, if you are middle class, rent in a bad neighborhood?

The topic of this thread is not really about that. It's about these things costing much more than they used to. Cost of housing for example, has not vastly increased relative to wages because of the government. That is false.

And the entire reason we had Obamacare is because people were being priced out of Healthcare by the tens of millions. Some with pre-existing conditions couldn't get good coverage at any price.

So that is false as well. Rising cost of living, give me a break.

Youre doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just playing the blame game. No solution.

So take health care, how do you get government out of it, and also have it be affordable? I'm talking 1950s affordable, not a reset to how bad it was before Obamacare.

Or housing. How do you make housing affordable to young people?

Or cost of living. If we shelve the idea of mass government subsidy of everything commonly used in living, how do we make diapers cost something reasonable again, or anything else?

Do you have any ideas, at all?

---

Government caused everything you listed. Do you really think more government will fix them?

---

Did you actually read my post? I acknowledged your position, but simply pulling out of Healthcare is not an option. It is only viable if the issues that created Obamacare were addressed. So how would you fix the issue of affordability, that created Obamacare?

Are you able to engage intellectually, at all?

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

The cause of every problem you listed is government intervention.

---

So just go back to if you can afford Healthcare, you get it, if you can't, die? If you are rich, buy a house, if you are middle class, rent in a bad neighborhood?

The topic of this thread is not really about that. It's about these things costing much more than they used to. Cost of housing for example, has not vastly increased relative to wages because of the government. That is false.

And the entire reason we had Obamacare is because people were being priced out of Healthcare by the tens of millions. Some with pre-existing conditions couldn't get good coverage at any price.

So that is false as well. Rising cost of living, give me a break.

Youre doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just playing the blame game. No solution.

So take health care, how do you get government out of it, and also have it be affordable? I'm talking 1950s affordable, not a reset to how bad it was before Obamacare.

Or housing. How do you make housing affordable to young people?

Or cost of living. If we shelve the idea of mass government subsidy of everything commonly used in living, how do we make diapers cost something reasonable again, or anything else?

Do you have any ideas, at all?

---

Government caused everything you listed. Do you really think more government will fix them?

---

Did you actually read my post? I acknowledged your position, but simply pulling out of Healthcare is not an option. It is only viable if the issues that created Obamacare were addressed. So how would you fix the issue of affordability, that created Obamacare?

Are you able to engage intellectually, at all?

---

This is a very dishonest post from you, Porteroso.

You made it very clear that you want government to solve these problems, when it is government which made things this bad. GrowlTowel made a very salient observation, and all you can do is whine 'are you able to engage intellectually, at all'

It appears that the intellectual incompetent here would be you.

Speaking for myself, I'd love to discuss options for improving healthcare and cost of living. Pretending the government is a good way to do it is absurdly foolish, and attacking others for pointing that out only makes you look like you are limited to ranting.

So, what precisely are your suggestions, sir?

Walk the walk or STFU.

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

The cause of every problem you listed is government intervention.

---

So just go back to if you can afford Healthcare, you get it, if you can't, die? If you are rich, buy a house, if you are middle class, rent in a bad neighborhood?

The topic of this thread is not really about that. It's about these things costing much more than they used to. Cost of housing for example, has not vastly increased relative to wages because of the government. That is false.

And the entire reason we had Obamacare is because people were being priced out of Healthcare by the tens of millions. Some with pre-existing conditions couldn't get good coverage at any price.

So that is false as well. Rising cost of living, give me a break.

Youre doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just playing the blame game. No solution.

So take health care, how do you get government out of it, and also have it be affordable? I'm talking 1950s affordable, not a reset to how bad it was before Obamacare.

Or housing. How do you make housing affordable to young people?

Or cost of living. If we shelve the idea of mass government subsidy of everything commonly used in living, how do we make diapers cost something reasonable again, or anything else?

Do you have any ideas, at all?

---

This is a Baylor message Board, almost all of us would be considered "Haves". Some us considered the elite, top 1%. These are not catastrophic issues. Worse case, discretionary funds reduce.

People on here talk in terms of good investments, investment opportunities, sound financial management, debt loads, and chiding people for not paying off their credit cards monthly (the irresponsible ones).

So, why do you think we will come up with solutions for real issues impacting people that as close to Baylor they can get is driving by on I35? It does not impact any of us enough. Now, if it does impact us or someone we care about, like the drug issues, than we are good with moving an Aircraft Carrier Battle Group to the Caribbean and blowing up any boat heading north no matter how much it costs.

So, buying a house to us is about a good deal, good interest rates and resale. The housing issues is an opportunity to make revenue from rent. Milton Friedman is great...

Health Insurance is a fringe benefit we get through our jobs and is subsidized by the Company. Everything is great, leave it alone we can get health care don't **** with it. No one on here would be caught dead with ACA, so let it escalate.

That is why there are no solutions, the problem has not hit us "Haves" enough for us to give a *****

---

Maybe for the older Baylor grads what you typed is true.

Not for the younger grads, or ones that get into Baylor and only were able to attend because of massive financial aid (grants, scholarships, loans) and come from low middle class or even poverty. And yes there are Baylor students like that.

---

On this Board, taking part in our conversations? I can count 2, maybe 3 that come from working class families. Not owning 1000 acre ranches, but pumping gas or small businesses?

The issues we discuss dont really effect us. How many on here have ACA? How many here cant qualify for a mortgage? Not lecturing, stating a fact. For those items, let the rates go up. For drugs and immigration, use the military costs be damned..

Obamacare and even housing affect us as a group less, so we dont care if the rates skyrocket, it is even the persons fault for being on ACA, losers...

---

I could count dozens on this board. Maybe not ones that don't qualify for a mortgage. But dozens that come from working class families and are average middle class or just slightly above now and don't own land but just a house.

---

Fair enough. They don't speak up, only seem to hear from the CEO types or those that are into worldwide traveling. I am glad to hear there are more in the middle to upper-middle of the bell curve of income. I figured the housing would impact more on here than the ACA.

Do you think this Board is a good cross-section of the electorate?

---

The football board has a good number of people that are middle class.

On the R&P board it is a lot of upper middle class, people that pretend they are, and people that brag about how wealthy they are/how much traveling they do. And I would bet 80% of those are not the high rollers they claim to be.

If you pay close enough attention the ones on the R&P board that brag about having money, multiple homes, etc. will be over on the sports boards talking about not being able to help with NIL, afford season tickets, not being Baylor club members, etc.

There also a ton of people that don't mention anything about their income. Or their background, race, or even sex.

But no this bird is not a good representation of the electorate. There are not many known female posters or ones and the race of many is not known

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

The cause of every problem you listed is government intervention.

---

So just go back to if you can afford Healthcare, you get it, if you can't, die? If you are rich, buy a house, if you are middle class, rent in a bad neighborhood?

The topic of this thread is not really about that. It's about these things costing much more than they used to. Cost of housing for example, has not vastly increased relative to wages because of the government. That is false.

And the entire reason we had Obamacare is because people were being priced out of Healthcare by the tens of millions. Some with pre-existing conditions couldn't get good coverage at any price.

So that is false as well. Rising cost of living, give me a break.

Youre doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just playing the blame game. No solution.

So take health care, how do you get government out of it, and also have it be affordable? I'm talking 1950s affordable, not a reset to how bad it was before Obamacare.

Or housing. How do you make housing affordable to young people?

Or cost of living. If we shelve the idea of mass government subsidy of everything commonly used in living, how do we make diapers cost something reasonable again, or anything else?

Do you have any ideas, at all?

---

Government caused everything you listed. Do you really think more government will fix them?

---

Did you actually read my post? I acknowledged your position, but simply pulling out of Healthcare is not an option. It is only viable if the issues that created Obamacare were addressed. So how would you fix the issue of affordability, that created Obamacare?

Are you able to engage intellectually, at all?

---

Government started the hyper inflated cost of healthcare decades ago. By the 1980s the writing was on the wall, but they kept going anyway.

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

The cause of every problem you listed is government intervention.

---

So just go back to if you can afford Healthcare, you get it, if you can't, die? If you are rich, buy a house, if you are middle class, rent in a bad neighborhood?

The topic of this thread is not really about that. It's about these things costing much more than they used to. Cost of housing for example, has not vastly increased relative to wages because of the government. That is false.

And the entire reason we had Obamacare is because people were being priced out of Healthcare by the tens of millions. Some with pre-existing conditions couldn't get good coverage at any price.

So that is false as well. Rising cost of living, give me a break.

Youre doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just playing the blame game. No solution.

So take health care, how do you get government out of it, and also have it be affordable? I'm talking 1950s affordable, not a reset to how bad it was before Obamacare.

Or housing. How do you make housing affordable to young people?

Or cost of living. If we shelve the idea of mass government subsidy of everything commonly used in living, how do we make diapers cost something reasonable again, or anything else?

Do you have any ideas, at all?

---

This is a Baylor message Board, almost all of us would be considered "Haves". Some us considered the elite, top 1%. These are not catastrophic issues. Worse case, discretionary funds reduce.

People on here talk in terms of good investments, investment opportunities, sound financial management, debt loads, and chiding people for not paying off their credit cards monthly (the irresponsible ones).

So, why do you think we will come up with solutions for real issues impacting people that as close to Baylor they can get is driving by on I35? It does not impact any of us enough. Now, if it does impact us or someone we care about, like the drug issues, than we are good with moving an Aircraft Carrier Battle Group to the Caribbean and blowing up any boat heading north no matter how much it costs.

So, buying a house to us is about a good deal, good interest rates and resale. The housing issues is an opportunity to make revenue from rent. Milton Friedman is great...

Health Insurance is a fringe benefit we get through our jobs and is subsidized by the Company. Everything is great, leave it alone we can get health care don't **** with it. No one on here would be caught dead with ACA, so let it escalate.

That is why there are no solutions, the problem has not hit us "Haves" enough for us to give a *****

---

Maybe for the older Baylor grads what you typed is true.

Not for the younger grads, or ones that get into Baylor and only were able to attend because of massive financial aid (grants, scholarships, loans) and come from low middle class or even poverty. And yes there are Baylor students like that.

---

On this Board, taking part in our conversations? I can count 2, maybe 3 that come from working class families. Not owning 1000 acre ranches, but pumping gas or small businesses?

The issues we discuss dont really effect us. How many on here have ACA? How many here cant qualify for a mortgage? Not lecturing, stating a fact. For those items, let the rates go up. For drugs and immigration, use the military costs be damned..

Obamacare and even housing affect us as a group less, so we dont care if the rates skyrocket, it is even the persons fault for being on ACA, losers...

---

I could count dozens on this board. Maybe not ones that don't qualify for a mortgage. But dozens that come from working class families and are average middle class or just slightly above now and don't own land but just a house.

---

Fair enough. They don't speak up, only seem to hear from the CEO types or those that are into worldwide traveling. I am glad to hear there are more in the middle to upper-middle of the bell curve of income. I figured the housing would impact more on here than the ACA.

Do you think this Board is a good cross-section of the electorate?

---

The football board has a good number of people that are middle class.

On the R&P board it is a lot of upper middle class, people that pretend they are, and people that brag about how wealthy they are/how much traveling they do. And I would bet 80% of those are not the high rollers they claim to be.

If you pay close enough attention the ones on the R&P board that brag about having money, multiple homes, etc. will be over on the sports boards talking about not being able to help with NIL, afford season tickets, not being Baylor club members, etc.

There also a ton of people that don't mention anything about their income. Or their background, race, or even sex.

But no this bird is not a good representation of the electorate. There are not many known female posters or ones and the race of many is not known

---

By the way, thanks for being reasonable and having a conversation. Too many of these types of conversations end up getting stuck on one point of 50, a mis-quote/mistake or minutia missing the greater policy issue. It is appreciated.

Not many of us are those that are impacted by these programs, maybe a couple.

I do not have ACA, health benefits have never been an issue with my jobs both private and public, my brother as a self-employed attorney it is literally the biggest issue he has in his life. It dominates everything, Thursday he loses a lot of his discretionary income as his rates will go up $2500 a month.

I had access to a VA mortgage option when I was young so housing has not been an issue. Student Loans made higher education doable and I used the Public Service Loan Forgiveness for student loans, so after 10 years of payments some of the interest was forgiven (principle paid off long ago). I am sure there are farmers, developers, small business owners that used Government programs. I do not know a farmer that isn't getting a subsidy from some program. Or, a land developer that didn't get some tax incentive or deal on infrastructure.
There are Government programs that provide value to the Nation.

I have used some, all requiring some form of service for a benefit. I have no issues with that and think it is disingenuous, now that we are set, to take them away from younger generations in the name of financial responsibility. I know damn well Trump has used every bit of public dollars and incentives he could in his businesses.

We have several items that, in my opinion, are bigger/more expensive than the common person can afford but the general population having access is a net positive for our nation.
- Education
- Home Ownership
- Health Care

The Government needs to play a role in those. Because let's face it, you are NOT getting insurance out of health. You are not getting student loans out of education. You are not getting home costs back to 1970's prices with 5% interest rates. Pipe dreams all. How do we get those that need Government programs access, serve the needs of the Nation and not bankrupt ourselves?

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I notice you still have no serious and specific suggestions, just spittle and spite .

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I notice you still have no serious and specific suggestions, just spittle and spite .

---

You are about to go on ignore, as you never answer the question. Just personal attacks.

One more time, do you honestly believe we can get insurance companies out of health care and get a free market system in place of MEDICARE and MEDICAID?

I will make it simpler, do you honestly believe we can get a non-government solution to health care. In our life times, never mind next year?

For that matter same with Student Loans and Mortgages? Not what you want, but what can get done.

tick, tock...

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I notice you still have no serious and specific suggestions, just spittle and spite .

---

You are about to go on ignore, as you never answer the question. Just personal attacks.

One more time, do you honestly believe we can get insurance companies out of health care and get a free market system in place of MEDICARE and MEDICAID?

I will make it simpler, do you honestly believe we can get a non-government solution to health care. In our life times, never mind next year?

For that matter same with Student Loans and Mortgages? Not what you want, but what can get done.

tick, tock...

---

You really are the leading hypocrite on this thread.

You have not made even one serious and specific suggestion on how you would resolve this issue, yet you piss all over yourself when that fact is pointed out.

And boyo, that's not a 'personal attack', it's literally a valid criticism of your behavior here.

You genuinely are not doing anything but ranting. And if you 'ignore' me pointing that out, then maybe a serious discussion truly is beyond your scope.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I'd be interested in anyone's response to this as well.

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I'd be interested in anyone's response to this as well.

---

So far, I get no responses just critiques...

We hear financial responsibility, no government, if you want ACA extended you love insurance companies, Oldbear's typical BS, and other Milton Friedman quotes. A lot on personal responsibility. The typical from those that don't have to worry about it.

But not one on whether ANY of it has any shot in hell to pass. It doesn't. Trump's HSA's are a pipe dream, you have to have money in the HSA to afford the free market rates. Opening an account does nothing if it is not funded. Meanwhile 23 million people are about to get body slammed with new higher rates.

There is no other way but extending ACA and having stronger Government controls. We are too far down the road to just stop and make an about face...

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I'd be interested in anyone's response to this as well.

---

I will take a shot at it. Unlike FLBear, I am interested in a serious discussion.

First, it's well past obvious that government's role in this must be as limited as possible. Absolutely nothing good has been done by government in the last quarter-century, and a great deal of harm.

Government's role should be to establish Patient's Rights, with federal and state officials coordinating statutes to avoid gaps, and pursuing the following:

• All services and procedures to have prices made available to patients no less than two weeks ahead of the procedure, with actual billed amount not to exceed 110% of prior estimate;
• Insurance providers to provide at least semi-annual announcement in writing to members of any changes to covered procedures/services, out-of-pocket limits and requirements for non-network approvals;
• Medical providers required to publish rules for service to uninsured patients in advance of service;
• Medicaid rules published in advance of the coming year, including eligibility, conditions and dispute resolution;
• Medicare portal to include live chat with humans as well as phone options, to address questions including non Part A/B/D plans such as Gap Coverage and supplemental coverage, with responses stored for reference in case of later dispute (Medicare rep would be responsible for their answer being correct);
• Misrepresentation of costs or services or privileges by an insurance provider would be a felony;
• No television or radio or online advertising for prescription medicine

Those seven items would be easy enough for Congress and most State Legislatures to pass, and public support would be strong for them.

Those would be my suggested starting actions.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I'd be interested in anyone's response to this as well.

---

I will take a shot at it. Unlike FLBear, I am interested in a serious discussion.

First, it's well past obvious that government's role in this must be as limited as possible. Absolutely nothing good has been done by government in the last quarter-century, and a great deal of harm.

Government's role should be to establish Patient's Rights, with federal and state officials coordinating statutes to avoid gaps, and pursuing the following:

• All services and procedures to have prices made available to patients no less than two weeks ahead of the procedure, with actual billed amount not to exceed 110% of prior estimate;
• Insurance providers to provide at least semi-annual announcement in writing to members of any changes to covered procedures/services, out-of-pocket limits and requirements for non-network approvals;
• Medical providers required to publish rules for service to uninsured patients in advance of service;
• Medicaid rules published in advance of the coming year, including eligibility, conditions and dispute resolution;
• Medicare portal to include live chat with humans as well as phone options, to address questions including non Part A/B/D plans such as Gap Coverage and supplemental coverage, with responses stored for reference in case of later dispute (Medicare rep would be responsible for their answer being correct);
• Misrepresentation of costs or services or privileges by an insurance provider would be a felony;
• No television or radio or online advertising for prescription medicine

Those seven items would be easy enough for Congress and most State Legislatures to pass, and public support would be strong for them.

Those would be my suggested starting actions.

---

I am a bit confused, I agree with all of these. However, the Health Insurance companies are still in the middle, the Government is still setting prices and enforcing, and it did not address ACA.

Now, this is not a knock or trying to start a fight, "How is that consistent with a "No Government" or "No Insurance Company payment" approach? They are all tweaks of existing programs and price setting enforced by the Government. Don't get me wrong, I agree all are doable, all are doable within the existing structure and it is something Congress should sign off on.

We are on the same page. Well done.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I'd be interested in anyone's response to this as well.

---

I will take a shot at it. Unlike FLBear, I am interested in a serious discussion.

First, it's well past obvious that government's role in this must be as limited as possible. Absolutely nothing good has been done by government in the last quarter-century, and a great deal of harm.

Government's role should be to establish Patient's Rights, with federal and state officials coordinating statutes to avoid gaps, and pursuing the following:

• All services and procedures to have prices made available to patients no less than two weeks ahead of the procedure, with actual billed amount not to exceed 110% of prior estimate;
• Insurance providers to provide at least semi-annual announcement in writing to members of any changes to covered procedures/services, out-of-pocket limits and requirements for non-network approvals;
• Medical providers required to publish rules for service to uninsured patients in advance of service;
• Medicaid rules published in advance of the coming year, including eligibility, conditions and dispute resolution;
• Medicare portal to include live chat with humans as well as phone options, to address questions including non Part A/B/D plans such as Gap Coverage and supplemental coverage, with responses stored for reference in case of later dispute (Medicare rep would be responsible for their answer being correct);
• Misrepresentation of costs or services or privileges by an insurance provider would be a felony;
• No television or radio or online advertising for prescription medicine

Those seven items would be easy enough for Congress and most State Legislatures to pass, and public support would be strong for them.

Those would be my suggested starting actions.

---

I am a bit confused, I agree with all of these. However, the Health Insurance companies are still in the middle, the Government is still setting prices and enforcing, and it did not address ACA.

Now, this is not a knock or trying to start a fight, "How is that consistent with a "No Government" or "No Insurance Company payment" approach? They are all tweaks of existing programs and price setting enforced by the Government. Don't get me wrong, I agree all are doable, all are doable within the existing structure and it is something Congress should sign off on.

We are on the same page. Well done.

---

Here's the thing, FLBear. You seem to assuming that everyone who disagrees with you has the same plan of action.

That's just one reason we need people to lay out their specific plans.

Government has done a great deal of harm over the years. But undoing their actions cannot be done overnight. Medicare, for example, affects so many millions of people that even though it was wrong in its inception and practice, the only way to address that problem is gradual and starts with reform, not abolition.

ACA, on the other hand, has done great harm for no necessary purpose beyond making insurance companies even richer. To my mind, rescinding ACA would be a great service to the nation, but there are not many Republicans with the spine to do so and even fewer Democrats, so the first step is again to make the reforms I listed in my last post as a starting point, because A) they are so common-sense they would be sure to pass, and B) they would lay a groundwork for further reforms that begin to undo some of ACA's damage.

There are three groups of bad guys in this mess: The Insurance industry, the many groups playing the system to commit Fraud, and the politicians who look no further than whether a vote helps their re-election chances. To defeat those villains requires a campaign that builds up victories for people while chipping away at lobbies and cabals who have stolen money and freedoms from people for decades now.

I would add that insurance companies can play a useful role in setting a forward course. As an example I would mention how United HealthCare addressed cancer cases when I was diagnosed back in 2006. The COO of UHC made major changes in policy in 2005, so that upon receiving notice of a cancer diagnosis from an oncologist, UHC would assign a case manager to the patient and oncologist. That case manager would, in advance, pre-approve a series of tests and procedures appropriate for that cancer, to streamline the process, make costs known and limit them, and discuss with the oncologist any additional expected actions considered necessary. This made the first three years of my diagnosis/treatment regimen much smoother and stress-free than it could have been.

Compare that to BCBS, which made my knee replacement surgery more complex than the Apollo moon landings in approvals and costs.

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I'd be interested in anyone's response to this as well.

---

one step is to bring back ability to buy a simple 'major medical' policy that doesnt cover everything for everyone......

I had one of those not too long ago - 11 yrs - for $131 a month.

I am not sure that coverage exists anymore -

- UF

D!

Also, let people self insure thru tax advantaged accounts that do NOT require you to have an existing large deductible Health plan - ie true self insurance.

Oldbear83 said:

---

I would add that insurance companies can play a useful role in setting a forward course. As an example I would mention how United HealthCare addressed cancer cases when I was diagnosed back in 2006. The COO of UHC made major changes in policy in 2005, so that upon receiving notice of a cancer diagnosis from an oncologist, UHC would assign a case manager to the patient and oncologist. That case manager would, in advance, pre-approve a series of tests and procedures appropriate for that cancer, to streamline the process, make costs known and limit them, and discuss with the oncologist any additional expected actions considered necessary. This made the first three years of my diagnosis/treatment regimen much smoother and stress-free than it could have been.

Compare that to BCBS, which made my knee replacement surgery more complex than the Apollo moon landings in approvals and costs.

---

I agree. They can play a role, your case is a good start.

It is getting more complex, I dont see it simplifying. I like the patient bill of rights.

i think your stuff is very doable. actually makes most sense of what i have read so far. whether we like it or not, we have to work with the structure we have.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I'd be interested in anyone's response to this as well.

---

I will take a shot at it. Unlike FLBear, I am interested in a serious discussion.

First, it's well past obvious that government's role in this must be as limited as possible. Absolutely nothing good has been done by government in the last quarter-century, and a great deal of harm.

Government's role should be to establish Patient's Rights, with federal and state officials coordinating statutes to avoid gaps, and pursuing the following:

• All services and procedures to have prices made available to patients no less than two weeks ahead of the procedure, with actual billed amount not to exceed 110% of prior estimate;
• Insurance providers to provide at least semi-annual announcement in writing to members of any changes to covered procedures/services, out-of-pocket limits and requirements for non-network approvals;
• Medical providers required to publish rules for service to uninsured patients in advance of service;
• Medicaid rules published in advance of the coming year, including eligibility, conditions and dispute resolution;
• Medicare portal to include live chat with humans as well as phone options, to address questions including non Part A/B/D plans such as Gap Coverage and supplemental coverage, with responses stored for reference in case of later dispute (Medicare rep would be responsible for their answer being correct);
• Misrepresentation of costs or services or privileges by an insurance provider would be a felony;
• No television or radio or online advertising for prescription medicine

Those seven items would be easy enough for Congress and most State Legislatures to pass, and public support would be strong for them.

Those would be my suggested starting actions.

---

Some worthwhile suggestions above.

All policies have unintended consequences. Most are driven by human behavior to act in our own interests. It's why so many Democratic (and some Republican) policies fail.

In Marty Makary's book, "The Price We Pay", he found 900 different prices for the same procedure at one hospital.

1. Post prices
2. Whether you get employer insurance or government insurance, you get cash dollars in a HSA. The lower your income the more $$$ you get in your account.
3. You get an additional $500 credit for a full annual (basic) physical which is covered.
4. You also get a catastrophic policy. Those are cheaper as they only pay for serious medical expenses (those have to be defined).
5. Funds that aren't spent are yours to keep. Perhaps half have to remain in your HSA for future healthcare expenses.

Posted prices allow consumers to use price as one tool. Like any product, we may be willing to pay a premium for a physician we deem to be worth a higher price.

It creates an incentive to get an annual physical so we can catch serious health issues early. It also creates an incentive to stay healthy because we get to keep money we don't spend.

If physicians don't have to spend so much time and money and staff on insurance, they can run a leaner office and be more productive treating patients while charging lower prices.

There's a lot more to the above but the goal should be to simplify for patients and doctors, create incentives for both (consumers can benefit for being prudent with their healthcare dollars and doctors can earn more doing what they trained to do), while keeping government in the background.

FLBear5630 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Porteroso said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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The cause of every problem you listed is government intervention.

---

So just go back to if you can afford Healthcare, you get it, if you can't, die? If you are rich, buy a house, if you are middle class, rent in a bad neighborhood?

The topic of this thread is not really about that. It's about these things costing much more than they used to. Cost of housing for example, has not vastly increased relative to wages because of the government. That is false.

And the entire reason we had Obamacare is because people were being priced out of Healthcare by the tens of millions. Some with pre-existing conditions couldn't get good coverage at any price.

So that is false as well. Rising cost of living, give me a break.

Youre doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just playing the blame game. No solution.

So take health care, how do you get government out of it, and also have it be affordable? I'm talking 1950s affordable, not a reset to how bad it was before Obamacare.

Or housing. How do you make housing affordable to young people?

Or cost of living. If we shelve the idea of mass government subsidy of everything commonly used in living, how do we make diapers cost something reasonable again, or anything else?

Do you have any ideas, at all?

---

This is a Baylor message Board, almost all of us would be considered "Haves". Some us considered the elite, top 1%. These are not catastrophic issues. Worse case, discretionary funds reduce.

People on here talk in terms of good investments, investment opportunities, sound financial management, debt loads, and chiding people for not paying off their credit cards monthly (the irresponsible ones).

So, why do you think we will come up with solutions for real issues impacting people that as close to Baylor they can get is driving by on I35? It does not impact any of us enough. Now, if it does impact us or someone we care about, like the drug issues, than we are good with moving an Aircraft Carrier Battle Group to the Caribbean and blowing up any boat heading north no matter how much it costs.

So, buying a house to us is about a good deal, good interest rates and resale. The housing issues is an opportunity to make revenue from rent. Milton Friedman is great...

Health Insurance is a fringe benefit we get through our jobs and is subsidized by the Company. Everything is great, leave it alone we can get health care don't **** with it. No one on here would be caught dead with ACA, so let it escalate.

That is why there are no solutions, the problem has not hit us "Haves" enough for us to give a *****

---

Maybe for the older Baylor grads what you typed is true.

Not for the younger grads, or ones that get into Baylor and only were able to attend because of massive financial aid (grants, scholarships, loans) and come from low middle class or even poverty. And yes there are Baylor students like that.

---

On this Board, taking part in our conversations? I can count 2, maybe 3 that come from working class families. Not owning 1000 acre ranches, but pumping gas or small businesses?

The issues we discuss dont really effect us. How many on here have ACA? How many here cant qualify for a mortgage? Not lecturing, stating a fact. For those items, let the rates go up. For drugs and immigration, use the military costs be damned..

Obamacare and even housing affect us as a group less, so we dont care if the rates skyrocket, it is even the persons fault for being on ACA, losers...

---

I could count dozens on this board. Maybe not ones that don't qualify for a mortgage. But dozens that come from working class families and are average middle class or just slightly above now and don't own land but just a house.

---

Fair enough. They don't speak up, only seem to hear from the CEO types or those that are into worldwide traveling. I am glad to hear there are more in the middle to upper-middle of the bell curve of income. I figured the housing would impact more on here than the ACA.

Do you think this Board is a good cross-section of the electorate?

---

The football board has a good number of people that are middle class.

On the R&P board it is a lot of upper middle class, people that pretend they are, and people that brag about how wealthy they are/how much traveling they do. And I would bet 80% of those are not the high rollers they claim to be.

If you pay close enough attention the ones on the R&P board that brag about having money, multiple homes, etc. will be over on the sports boards talking about not being able to help with NIL, afford season tickets, not being Baylor club members, etc.

There also a ton of people that don't mention anything about their income. Or their background, race, or even sex.

But no this bird is not a good representation of the electorate. There are not many known female posters or ones and the race of many is not known

---

By the way, thanks for being reasonable and having a conversation. Too many of these types of conversations end up getting stuck on one point of 50, a mis-quote/mistake or minutia missing the greater policy issue. It is appreciated.

Not many of us are those that are impacted by these programs, maybe a couple.

I do not have ACA, health benefits have never been an issue with my jobs both private and public, my brother as a self-employed attorney it is literally the biggest issue he has in his life. It dominates everything, Thursday he loses a lot of his discretionary income as his rates will go up $2500 a month.

I had access to a VA mortgage option when I was young so housing has not been an issue. Student Loans made higher education doable and I used the Public Service Loan Forgiveness for student loans, so after 10 years of payments some of the interest was forgiven (principle paid off long ago). I am sure there are farmers, developers, small business owners that used Government programs. I do not know a farmer that isn't getting a subsidy from some program. Or, a land developer that didn't get some tax incentive or deal on infrastructure.
There are Government programs that provide value to the Nation.

I have used some, all requiring some form of service for a benefit. I have no issues with that and think it is disingenuous, now that we are set, to take them away from younger generations in the name of financial responsibility. I know damn well Trump has used every bit of public dollars and incentives he could in his businesses.

We have several items that, in my opinion, are bigger/more expensive than the common person can afford but the general population having access is a net positive for our nation.
- Education
- Home Ownership
- Health Care

The Government needs to play a role in those. Because let's face it, you are NOT getting insurance out of health. You are not getting student loans out of education. You are not getting home costs back to 1970's prices with 5% interest rates. Pipe dreams all. How do we get those that need Government programs access, serve the needs of the Nation and not bankrupt ourselves?

---

Agreed. It is nice to have a civil discussion.

I think on health care we do not need to do away with insurance but we do need to get the government out of the insurance side of things.

Again, I think it needs to be involved in price controls/ gauging. Because to me that is what it is. Perhaps laws about who qualifies for company paid health insurance to get companies to stop making sure most of their employees don't qualify for health insurance. For example giving employees only 30 hours a week so they don't qualify as full time. Or some other solution to give more people health insurance. Even if it means some sort of incentive for companies to do so like a tax break or something. Bottom line I think there are a lot of fixes that could be done to health insurance/care to lower costs without the government being involved directly in the insurance business.

Loans- create some sort of requirement about types of degrees it will pay for. Stop letting people go to college for 4 years or more to get a useless degree where they will never be able to pay it back.

midgett said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I'd be interested in anyone's response to this as well.

---

I will take a shot at it. Unlike FLBear, I am interested in a serious discussion.

First, it's well past obvious that government's role in this must be as limited as possible. Absolutely nothing good has been done by government in the last quarter-century, and a great deal of harm.

Government's role should be to establish Patient's Rights, with federal and state officials coordinating statutes to avoid gaps, and pursuing the following:

• All services and procedures to have prices made available to patients no less than two weeks ahead of the procedure, with actual billed amount not to exceed 110% of prior estimate;
• Insurance providers to provide at least semi-annual announcement in writing to members of any changes to covered procedures/services, out-of-pocket limits and requirements for non-network approvals;
• Medical providers required to publish rules for service to uninsured patients in advance of service;
• Medicaid rules published in advance of the coming year, including eligibility, conditions and dispute resolution;
• Medicare portal to include live chat with humans as well as phone options, to address questions including non Part A/B/D plans such as Gap Coverage and supplemental coverage, with responses stored for reference in case of later dispute (Medicare rep would be responsible for their answer being correct);
• Misrepresentation of costs or services or privileges by an insurance provider would be a felony;
• No television or radio or online advertising for prescription medicine

Those seven items would be easy enough for Congress and most State Legislatures to pass, and public support would be strong for them.

Those would be my suggested starting actions.

---

Some worthwhile suggestions above.

All policies have unintended consequences. Most are driven by human behavior to act in our own interests. It's why so many Democratic (and some Republican) policies fail.

In Marty Makary's book, "The Price We Pay", he found 900 different prices for the same procedure at one hospital.

1. Post prices
2. Whether you get employer insurance or government insurance, you get cash dollars in a HSA. The lower your income the more $$$ you get in your account.
3. You get an additional $500 credit for a full annual (basic) physical which is covered.
4. You also get a catastrophic policy. Those are cheaper as they only pay for serious medical expenses (those have to be defined).
5. Funds that aren't spent are yours to keep. Perhaps half have to remain in your HSA for future healthcare expenses.

Posted prices allow consumers to use price as one tool. Like any product, we may be willing to pay a premium for a physician we deem to be worth a higher price.

It creates an incentive to get an annual physical so we can catch serious health issues early. It also creates an incentive to stay healthy because we get to keep money we don't spend.

If physicians don't have to spend so much time and money and staff on insurance, they can run a leaner office and be more productive treating patients while charging lower prices.

There's a lot more to the above but the goal should be to simplify for patients and doctors, create incentives for both (consumers can benefit for being prudent with their healthcare dollars and doctors can earn more doing what they trained to do), while keeping government in the background.

---

Prices are the issue.

A hospital will bill one price and the insurance company will tell them flat out no we will only pay X amount and somehow the hospital magically agrees that this is a valid price….. like they were hoping the insurance company would pay the higher amount or tell the patient they have to pay the difference.

Also health insurance is the only one that has "networks" and argues with doctors on what is needed.

When you get in a car wreck you can choose most body shops. When the body shop says X part needs to be replaced the insurance doesn't argue with them, tell the insured they need to get a second opinion. They just say ok and then maybe disagree on the price/ quality of part used (new vs refurbished or brand part bs aftermarket).

Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I'd be interested in anyone's response to this as well.

---

I will take a shot at it. Unlike FLBear, I am interested in a serious discussion.

First, it's well past obvious that government's role in this must be as limited as possible. Absolutely nothing good has been done by government in the last quarter-century, and a great deal of harm.

Government's role should be to establish Patient's Rights, with federal and state officials coordinating statutes to avoid gaps, and pursuing the following:

• All services and procedures to have prices made available to patients no less than two weeks ahead of the procedure, with actual billed amount not to exceed 110% of prior estimate;
• Insurance providers to provide at least semi-annual announcement in writing to members of any changes to covered procedures/services, out-of-pocket limits and requirements for non-network approvals;
• Medical providers required to publish rules for service to uninsured patients in advance of service;
• Medicaid rules published in advance of the coming year, including eligibility, conditions and dispute resolution;
• Medicare portal to include live chat with humans as well as phone options, to address questions including non Part A/B/D plans such as Gap Coverage and supplemental coverage, with responses stored for reference in case of later dispute (Medicare rep would be responsible for their answer being correct);
• Misrepresentation of costs or services or privileges by an insurance provider would be a felony;
• No television or radio or online advertising for prescription medicine

Those seven items would be easy enough for Congress and most State Legislatures to pass, and public support would be strong for them.

Those would be my suggested starting actions.

---

I am a bit confused, I agree with all of these. However, the Health Insurance companies are still in the middle, the Government is still setting prices and enforcing, and it did not address ACA.

Now, this is not a knock or trying to start a fight, "How is that consistent with a "No Government" or "No Insurance Company payment" approach? They are all tweaks of existing programs and price setting enforced by the Government. Don't get me wrong, I agree all are doable, all are doable within the existing structure and it is something Congress should sign off on.

We are on the same page. Well done.

---

Here's the thing, FLBear. You seem to assuming that everyone who disagrees with you has the same plan of action.

That's just one reason we need people to lay out their specific plans.

Government has done a great deal of harm over the years. But undoing their actions cannot be done overnight. Medicare, for example, affects so many millions of people that even though it was wrong in its inception and practice, the only way to address that problem is gradual and starts with reform, not abolition.

ACA, on the other hand, has done great harm for no necessary purpose beyond making insurance companies even richer. To my mind, rescinding ACA would be a great service to the nation, but there are not many Republicans with the spine to do so and even fewer Democrats, so the first step is again to make the reforms I listed in my last post as a starting point, because A) they are so common-sense they would be sure to pass, and B) they would lay a groundwork for further reforms that begin to undo some of ACA's damage.

There are three groups of bad guys in this mess: The Insurance industry, the many groups playing the system to commit Fraud, and the politicians who look no further than whether a vote helps their re-election chances. To defeat those villains requires a campaign that builds up victories for people while chipping away at lobbies and cabals who have stolen money and freedoms from people for decades now.

---

So, if you want to abolish ACA, how would you cover folks with pre-existing conditions that the insurance companies won't touch?

J.R. said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I'd be interested in anyone's response to this as well.

---

I will take a shot at it. Unlike FLBear, I am interested in a serious discussion.

First, it's well past obvious that government's role in this must be as limited as possible. Absolutely nothing good has been done by government in the last quarter-century, and a great deal of harm.

Government's role should be to establish Patient's Rights, with federal and state officials coordinating statutes to avoid gaps, and pursuing the following:

• All services and procedures to have prices made available to patients no less than two weeks ahead of the procedure, with actual billed amount not to exceed 110% of prior estimate;
• Insurance providers to provide at least semi-annual announcement in writing to members of any changes to covered procedures/services, out-of-pocket limits and requirements for non-network approvals;
• Medical providers required to publish rules for service to uninsured patients in advance of service;
• Medicaid rules published in advance of the coming year, including eligibility, conditions and dispute resolution;
• Medicare portal to include live chat with humans as well as phone options, to address questions including non Part A/B/D plans such as Gap Coverage and supplemental coverage, with responses stored for reference in case of later dispute (Medicare rep would be responsible for their answer being correct);
• Misrepresentation of costs or services or privileges by an insurance provider would be a felony;
• No television or radio or online advertising for prescription medicine

Those seven items would be easy enough for Congress and most State Legislatures to pass, and public support would be strong for them.

Those would be my suggested starting actions.

---

I am a bit confused, I agree with all of these. However, the Health Insurance companies are still in the middle, the Government is still setting prices and enforcing, and it did not address ACA.

Now, this is not a knock or trying to start a fight, "How is that consistent with a "No Government" or "No Insurance Company payment" approach? They are all tweaks of existing programs and price setting enforced by the Government. Don't get me wrong, I agree all are doable, all are doable within the existing structure and it is something Congress should sign off on.

We are on the same page. Well done.

---

Here's the thing, FLBear. You seem to assuming that everyone who disagrees with you has the same plan of action.

That's just one reason we need people to lay out their specific plans.

Government has done a great deal of harm over the years. But undoing their actions cannot be done overnight. Medicare, for example, affects so many millions of people that even though it was wrong in its inception and practice, the only way to address that problem is gradual and starts with reform, not abolition.

ACA, on the other hand, has done great harm for no necessary purpose beyond making insurance companies even richer. To my mind, rescinding ACA would be a great service to the nation, but there are not many Republicans with the spine to do so and even fewer Democrats, so the first step is again to make the reforms I listed in my last post as a starting point, because A) they are so common-sense they would be sure to pass, and B) they would lay a groundwork for further reforms that begin to undo some of ACA's damage.

There are three groups of bad guys in this mess: The Insurance industry, the many groups playing the system to commit Fraud, and the politicians who look no further than whether a vote helps their re-election chances. To defeat those villains requires a campaign that builds up victories for people while chipping away at lobbies and cabals who have stolen money and freedoms from people for decades now.

---

So, if you want to abolish ACA, how would you cover folks with pre-existing conditions that the insurance companies won't touch?

---

It is going to have to be required. The only Organization that can do that is Government regulation.

The cost and exploitation of a required service has reached the point where we have to have Government oversight. I think of it as similar to Roosevelt and Anti-Trust.

midgett said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I'd be interested in anyone's response to this as well.

---

I will take a shot at it. Unlike FLBear, I am interested in a serious discussion.

First, it's well past obvious that government's role in this must be as limited as possible. Absolutely nothing good has been done by government in the last quarter-century, and a great deal of harm.

Government's role should be to establish Patient's Rights, with federal and state officials coordinating statutes to avoid gaps, and pursuing the following:

• All services and procedures to have prices made available to patients no less than two weeks ahead of the procedure, with actual billed amount not to exceed 110% of prior estimate;
• Insurance providers to provide at least semi-annual announcement in writing to members of any changes to covered procedures/services, out-of-pocket limits and requirements for non-network approvals;
• Medical providers required to publish rules for service to uninsured patients in advance of service;
• Medicaid rules published in advance of the coming year, including eligibility, conditions and dispute resolution;
• Medicare portal to include live chat with humans as well as phone options, to address questions including non Part A/B/D plans such as Gap Coverage and supplemental coverage, with responses stored for reference in case of later dispute (Medicare rep would be responsible for their answer being correct);
• Misrepresentation of costs or services or privileges by an insurance provider would be a felony;
• No television or radio or online advertising for prescription medicine

Those seven items would be easy enough for Congress and most State Legislatures to pass, and public support would be strong for them.

Those would be my suggested starting actions.

---

Some worthwhile suggestions above.

All policies have unintended consequences. Most are driven by human behavior to act in our own interests. It's why so many Democratic (and some Republican) policies fail.

In Marty Makary's book, "The Price We Pay", he found 900 different prices for the same procedure at one hospital.

1. Post prices
2. Whether you get employer insurance or government insurance, you get cash dollars in a HSA. The lower your income the more $$$ you get in your account.
3. You get an additional $500 credit for a full annual (basic) physical which is covered.
4. You also get a catastrophic policy. Those are cheaper as they only pay for serious medical expenses (those have to be defined).
5. Funds that aren't spent are yours to keep. Perhaps half have to remain in your HSA for future healthcare expenses.

Posted prices allow consumers to use price as one tool. Like any product, we may be willing to pay a premium for a physician we deem to be worth a higher price.

It creates an incentive to get an annual physical so we can catch serious health issues early. It also creates an incentive to stay healthy because we get to keep money we don't spend.

If physicians don't have to spend so much time and money and staff on insurance, they can run a leaner office and be more productive treating patients while charging lower prices.

There's a lot more to the above but the goal should be to simplify for patients and doctors, create incentives for both (consumers can benefit for being prudent with their healthcare dollars and doctors can earn more doing what they trained to do), while keeping government in the background.

---

practical and prudent -

william said:

---

midgett said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

When your only suggestions start with government, you should just admit you have no useful suggestions.

---

Be real.

Do you really think that there is any way that insurance is out of Health Care? Or a total free market based system takes the place of MEDICAID and MEDICARE.

You can say that with a straight face? None of this we can't afford it or that is way it should be. Do you really believe that we can get Health Insurance and the Government out of Health Care?

---

I'd be interested in anyone's response to this as well.

---

I will take a shot at it. Unlike FLBear, I am interested in a serious discussion.

First, it's well past obvious that government's role in this must be as limited as possible. Absolutely nothing good has been done by government in the last quarter-century, and a great deal of harm.

Government's role should be to establish Patient's Rights, with federal and state officials coordinating statutes to avoid gaps, and pursuing the following:

• All services and procedures to have prices made available to patients no less than two weeks ahead of the procedure, with actual billed amount not to exceed 110% of prior estimate;
• Insurance providers to provide at least semi-annual announcement in writing to members of any changes to covered procedures/services, out-of-pocket limits and requirements for non-network approvals;
• Medical providers required to publish rules for service to uninsured patients in advance of service;
• Medicaid rules published in advance of the coming year, including eligibility, conditions and dispute resolution;
• Medicare portal to include live chat with humans as well as phone options, to address questions including non Part A/B/D plans such as Gap Coverage and supplemental coverage, with responses stored for reference in case of later dispute (Medicare rep would be responsible for their answer being correct);
• Misrepresentation of costs or services or privileges by an insurance provider would be a felony;
• No television or radio or online advertising for prescription medicine

Those seven items would be easy enough for Congress and most State Legislatures to pass, and public support would be strong for them.

Those would be my suggested starting actions.

---

Some worthwhile suggestions above.

All policies have unintended consequences. Most are driven by human behavior to act in our own interests. It's why so many Democratic (and some Republican) policies fail.

In Marty Makary's book, "The Price We Pay", he found 900 different prices for the same procedure at one hospital.

1. Post prices
2. Whether you get employer insurance or government insurance, you get cash dollars in a HSA. The lower your income the more $$$ you get in your account.
3. You get an additional $500 credit for a full annual (basic) physical which is covered.
4. You also get a catastrophic policy. Those are cheaper as they only pay for serious medical expenses (those have to be defined).
5. Funds that aren't spent are yours to keep. Perhaps half have to remain in your HSA for future healthcare expenses.

Posted prices allow consumers to use price as one tool. Like any product, we may be willing to pay a premium for a physician we deem to be worth a higher price.

It creates an incentive to get an annual physical so we can catch serious health issues early. It also creates an incentive to stay healthy because we get to keep money we don't spend.

If physicians don't have to spend so much time and money and staff on insurance, they can run a leaner office and be more productive treating patients while charging lower prices.

There's a lot more to the above but the goal should be to simplify for patients and doctors, create incentives for both (consumers can benefit for being prudent with their healthcare dollars and doctors can earn more doing what they trained to do), while keeping government in the background.

---

practical and prudent -

---

I get the HSA part, do you think they really will lower prices? The insurance industry is a trillion dollar industry, they are just going to become banks to push HSA money? I agree that is should be done. Just very cynical.

Earlier you bit-h and moan about government and insurance still being involved. Now you're calling it cynical to believe they have to be heavily involved. (In the meantime, you offer ZERO suggestions of your own.)

Yes, it would be radical. Yes, expecting our Congress people to upset big contributors to their campaigns may be nearly impossible. But that is why the current system doesn't work. Too many hands in the pot.

Probably the only viable way to get started would be like charter schools. You start small. Allow some doctors, some corporations, some consumers to use a similar system. If it starts showing evidence that it is better, more and more will demand it. It only takes a spark to get a fire going (written by a Baylor man!).

midgett said:

---

Earlier you bit-h and moan about government and insurance still being involved. Now you're calling it cynical to believe they have to be heavily involved. (In the meantime, you offer ZERO suggestions of your own.)

Yes, it would be radical. Yes, expecting our Congress people to upset big contributors to their campaigns may be nearly impossible. But that is why the current system doesn't work. Too many hands in the pot.

Probably the only viable way to get started would be like charter schools. You start small. Allow some doctors, some corporations, some consumers to use a similar system. If it starts showing evidence that it is better, more and more will demand it. It only takes a spark to get a fire going (written by a Baylor man!).

---

I agree with your analysis and the one last night. No issues with what you propose.

Whether we can ever get there... That is where I am cynical. Not your proposal. I think it would be much better. Problem I see is we need Congress to do something and they won't . Very cynical that there is anyone in DC that isn't there to get rich. They all leave much wealthier than when they got there.

I actually believe there is NO WAY to get insurance out and the Government is the only organization in a position to regulate. I agreed with OldBear last night because it used the existing system and structure. I don't see the powers to be allowing it to be eliminated.

cowboycwr: " A hospital will bill one price and the insurance company will tell them flat out no we will only pay X amount and somehow the hospital magically agrees that this is a valid price….. like they were hoping the insurance company would pay the higher amount or tell the patient they have to pay the difference."

You have hit one of the problems. I am one of those strange people who likes audits at the business level, because it forces a level of transparency. There used to be Third-Party claims administrators who verified if a medical claim was consistent with the agreed network terms and applicable law. Those went away under Clinton when he started pushing Healthcare to government control (remember before ACA it was called 'HillaryCare') .

The effort to give government control of Healthcare has gone on for decades, so while it's essential to get Government out, it's going to take a long time and be gradual.