Waco1947 said:

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Florda_mike said:

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Forest Bueller said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Waco1947 said:

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90sBear said:

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bubbadog said:

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90sBear said:

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bubbadog said:

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90sBear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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I'm not making any judgements about who's racist and who's not. To walk around in white skin is different than walking around in black skin. Can you not see that truth?

You guys keep creating your own definition of white privilege. White Privilege simply born into the world and you walk around white.

---

You have continued to avoid my question.

Do other ethnicities in this world have priveleges based only on their skin color?

---

Why would the rest of the world even be part of the discussion when we're talking about racial disparities in the United States?

Except for neo-nazi white nationalists, we don't measure ourselves by the "blood and soil" views of other countries, where citizenship was once based on ethnic identity. We're the only nation in the world founded on the principle that all men are created equal. And that's has always been the standard by which we measure ourselves.

---

Waco1947 has, since the first post in this thread, repeatedly stated "in this world." So he made it part of the discussion.

---

Fair enough. Do you think it should be part of the discussion?

---

I do because Waco1947 obviously believes it applies worldwide. I'm not trying to play some gotcha game, the only reason I phrased it that way is because he has repeatedly stated "in the world."

I have asked him this same question multiple times so he has had plenty of opportunities to clarify his views. He continues to avoid it just as he has avoided questions asking why his conversations with black people are more valid than other people's conversations with black people.

---

My apologies for using 'in this world.' I meant in this white culture of the USA.

---

If I said, "there's too much black culture in USA" would I be racist?

---

Of course you would be Mike, just like 47 is being, and has been this entire thread.

It will never change, as long as enough minion to take heed to the voices like his, the old relics of the past, that still chose to divide us by what we look and act like.

---

Yeah I don't even remember the word "racist" being used this much in 60s and 70s
""""""Gas-lighting """""""
I wonder if we're more divided now thanks to our 1st black president being so uniting. """""More Gaslighting """"""""

---

. Why respond to a lie? White privilege is simply walking around white. Black is simply being black in a white culture. Is that hard to grasp and acknowledge? What are you afraid of?

---

There is the base of the false claim (bolded). Gross oversimplification of a social condition, maliciously applied to all times, places, and people in order to advance a political agenda.

In a word, racism.

Edmond Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Florda_mike said:

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Forest Bueller said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

90sBear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

90sBear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

90sBear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I'm not making any judgements about who's racist and who's not. To walk around in white skin is different than walking around in black skin. Can you not see that truth?

You guys keep creating your own definition of white privilege. White Privilege simply born into the world and you walk around white.

---

You have continued to avoid my question.

Do other ethnicities in this world have priveleges based only on their skin color?

---

Why would the rest of the world even be part of the discussion when we're talking about racial disparities in the United States?

Except for neo-nazi white nationalists, we don't measure ourselves by the "blood and soil" views of other countries, where citizenship was once based on ethnic identity. We're the only nation in the world founded on the principle that all men are created equal. And that's has always been the standard by which we measure ourselves.

---

Waco1947 has, since the first post in this thread, repeatedly stated "in this world." So he made it part of the discussion.

---

Fair enough. Do you think it should be part of the discussion?

---

I do because Waco1947 obviously believes it applies worldwide. I'm not trying to play some gotcha game, the only reason I phrased it that way is because he has repeatedly stated "in the world."

I have asked him this same question multiple times so he has had plenty of opportunities to clarify his views. He continues to avoid it just as he has avoided questions asking why his conversations with black people are more valid than other people's conversations with black people.

---

My apologies for using 'in this world.' I meant in this white culture of the USA.

---

If I said, "there's too much black culture in USA" would I be racist?

---

Of course you would be Mike, just like 47 is being, and has been this entire thread.

It will never change, as long as enough minion to take heed to the voices like his, the old relics of the past, that still chose to divide us by what we look and act like.

---

Yeah I don't even remember the word "racist" being used this much in 60s and 70s
""""""Gas-lighting """""""
I wonder if we're more divided now thanks to our 1st black president being so uniting. """""More Gaslighting """"""""

---

. Why respond to a lie? White privilege is simply walking around white. Black is simply being black in a white culture. Is that hard to grasp and acknowledge? What are you afraid of?

---

This is a becoming a fascinating study. 47 is taking the Clinton playbook and playing it perfect: just repeat a lie, don't answer any questions, just repeat repeat repeat hoping that someone..anyone..will believe it.

---

Except it's not a lie white privilege exists. It makes a difference to be white.

Waco1947 said:

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Edmond Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

90sBear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

90sBear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

90sBear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I'm not making any judgements about who's racist and who's not. To walk around in white skin is different than walking around in black skin. Can you not see that truth?

You guys keep creating your own definition of white privilege. White Privilege simply born into the world and you walk around white.

---

You have continued to avoid my question.

Do other ethnicities in this world have priveleges based only on their skin color?

---

Why would the rest of the world even be part of the discussion when we're talking about racial disparities in the United States?

Except for neo-nazi white nationalists, we don't measure ourselves by the "blood and soil" views of other countries, where citizenship was once based on ethnic identity. We're the only nation in the world founded on the principle that all men are created equal. And that's has always been the standard by which we measure ourselves.

---

Waco1947 has, since the first post in this thread, repeatedly stated "in this world." So he made it part of the discussion.

---

Fair enough. Do you think it should be part of the discussion?

---

I do because Waco1947 obviously believes it applies worldwide. I'm not trying to play some gotcha game, the only reason I phrased it that way is because he has repeatedly stated "in the world."

I have asked him this same question multiple times so he has had plenty of opportunities to clarify his views. He continues to avoid it just as he has avoided questions asking why his conversations with black people are more valid than other people's conversations with black people.

---

My apologies for using 'in this world.' I meant in this white culture of the USA.

---

If I said, "there's too much black culture in USA" would I be racist?

---

Of course you would be Mike, just like 47 is being, and has been this entire thread.

It will never change, as long as enough minion to take heed to the voices like his, the old relics of the past, that still chose to divide us by what we look and act like.

---

Yeah I don't even remember the word "racist" being used this much in 60s and 70s
""""""Gas-lighting """""""
I wonder if we're more divided now thanks to our 1st black president being so uniting. """""More Gaslighting """"""""

---

. Why respond to a lie? White privilege is simply walking around white. Black is simply being black in a white culture. Is that hard to grasp and acknowledge? What are you afraid of?

---

This is a becoming a fascinating study. 47 is taking the Clinton playbook and playing it perfect: just repeat a lie, don't answer any questions, just repeat repeat repeat hoping that someone..anyone..will believe it.

---

Except it's not a lie white privilege exists. It makes a difference to be white.

---

You have yet to establish your claim.

You know when a man will fit Jesus into his progressive agenda defanging the Lord Almighty of His power, then every social and interpersonal relationship will be forced into the progressive agenda as well.

When you have no reverence for the Lord Almighty, and reject Him for what He says He is, nothing is off the table to pervert from what is real.

Waco1947 said:

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Edmond Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

90sBear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

90sBear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

90sBear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I'm not making any judgements about who's racist and who's not. To walk around in white skin is different than walking around in black skin. Can you not see that truth?

You guys keep creating your own definition of white privilege. White Privilege simply born into the world and you walk around white.

---

You have continued to avoid my question.

Do other ethnicities in this world have priveleges based only on their skin color?

---

Why would the rest of the world even be part of the discussion when we're talking about racial disparities in the United States?

Except for neo-nazi white nationalists, we don't measure ourselves by the "blood and soil" views of other countries, where citizenship was once based on ethnic identity. We're the only nation in the world founded on the principle that all men are created equal. And that's has always been the standard by which we measure ourselves.

---

Waco1947 has, since the first post in this thread, repeatedly stated "in this world." So he made it part of the discussion.

---

Fair enough. Do you think it should be part of the discussion?

---

I do because Waco1947 obviously believes it applies worldwide. I'm not trying to play some gotcha game, the only reason I phrased it that way is because he has repeatedly stated "in the world."

I have asked him this same question multiple times so he has had plenty of opportunities to clarify his views. He continues to avoid it just as he has avoided questions asking why his conversations with black people are more valid than other people's conversations with black people.

---

My apologies for using 'in this world.' I meant in this white culture of the USA.

---

If I said, "there's too much black culture in USA" would I be racist?

---

Of course you would be Mike, just like 47 is being, and has been this entire thread.

It will never change, as long as enough minion to take heed to the voices like his, the old relics of the past, that still chose to divide us by what we look and act like.

---

Yeah I don't even remember the word "racist" being used this much in 60s and 70s
""""""Gas-lighting """""""
I wonder if we're more divided now thanks to our 1st black president being so uniting. """""More Gaslighting """"""""

---

. Why respond to a lie? White privilege is simply walking around white. Black is simply being black in a white culture. Is that hard to grasp and acknowledge? What are you afraid of?

---

This is a becoming a fascinating study. 47 is taking the Clinton playbook and playing it perfect: just repeat a lie, don't answer any questions, just repeat repeat repeat hoping that someone..anyone..will believe it.

---

Except it's not a lie white privilege exists. It makes a difference to be white.

---

I believe there are times when it is a benefit to be white. Do you think there are times when it is a benefit to be other colors?

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I think we all want to resolve injustice. If you are a caring, mature person, you hate to see anyone hurt or damaged by wrong, whether or not it's unintentional. But people do fall for lies and gimmicks, and the 'white privilege' lie is very toxic, because it is divisive and malicious by design. """""Oops I missed this part."""""

When something bad happens to you, it's natural to wonder why, especially if you believe you did nothing wrong. Identifying the cause is important, so you can prevent it from happening again. It's also important to understand that conditions change; cultures, stakeholders, and intentions all fluctuate over time, and some changes are significant. Finally, never forget that individual behavior will always include outliers which do not accurately reflect the mainstream view.

Focus on the person, not the surface, and you can find a friend. Focus on the emotion, and you miss the substance.

---

Very well said. Thank you

---

"Focus on the person. Focus on the substance". These phrases seemed to to to understand the black persons frame of reference which is what I appreciated.

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I think we all want to resolve injustice. If you are a caring, mature person, you hate to see anyone hurt or damaged by wrong, whether or not it's unintentional. But people do fall for lies and gimmicks, and the 'white privilege' lie is very toxic, because it is divisive and malicious by design. """""Oops I missed this part."""""

When something bad happens to you, it's natural to wonder why, especially if you believe you did nothing wrong. Identifying the cause is important, so you can prevent it from happening again. It's also important to understand that conditions change; cultures, stakeholders, and intentions all fluctuate over time, and some changes are significant. Finally, never forget that individual behavior will always include outliers which do not accurately reflect the mainstream view.

Focus on the person, not the surface, and you can find a friend. Focus on the emotion, and you miss the substance.

---

Very well said. Thank you

---

"Focus on the person. Focus on the substance". These phrases seemed to to to understand the black persons frame of reference which is what I appreciated.

---

The person is what matters. Not the "black", anymore than the "white", or any other color.

When you see a person, you call out to them by their name, not their color. Only a racist judges the person by the color of their skin.

My premise is White privilege is simply being. Ken in white skin and walking America white. That experience of being white differs markedly for blacks. I have yet to see anyone refute the premise.

Waco1947 said:

---

My premise is White privilege is simply being. Ken in white skin and walking America white. That experience of being white differs markedly for blacks. I have yet to see anyone refute the premise.

---

You have not even tried to establish the claim. It fails without support. The burden is yours to prove your case, it fails without it.

Waco1947 said:

---

My premise is White privilege is simply being. Ken in white skin and walking America white. That experience of being white differs markedly for blacks. I have yet to see anyone refute the premise.

---

Using your logic Waco47, since you have not been able to prove you are not a racist following the allegation against you, you are therefore a racist.

I am not saying I believe that is the case Waco, but your logic goes there. So hopefully you can finally see why you must prove your contentions, not simply demand they be accepted just because you made them.

Waco1947 said:

---

My premise is White privilege is simply being. Ken in white skin and walking America white. That experience of being white differs markedly for blacks. I have yet to see anyone refute the premise.

---

1) "Markedly" is vague. So far I have mostly seen you describe anecdotal stories mostly from your experiences growing up over 50 years ago and applying that to all black people today.

2) Do you think there are times when it is a benefit to be other colors than white?

Waco1947 said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

90sBear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

90sBear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

90sBear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I'm not making any judgements about who's racist and who's not. To walk around in white skin is different than walking around in black skin. Can you not see that truth?

You guys keep creating your own definition of white privilege. White Privilege simply born into the world and you walk around white.

---

You have continued to avoid my question.

Do other ethnicities in this world have priveleges based only on their skin color?

---

Why would the rest of the world even be part of the discussion when we're talking about racial disparities in the United States?

Except for neo-nazi white nationalists, we don't measure ourselves by the "blood and soil" views of other countries, where citizenship was once based on ethnic identity. We're the only nation in the world founded on the principle that all men are created equal. And that's has always been the standard by which we measure ourselves.

---

Waco1947 has, since the first post in this thread, repeatedly stated "in this world." So he made it part of the discussion.

---

Fair enough. Do you think it should be part of the discussion?

---

I do because Waco1947 obviously believes it applies worldwide. I'm not trying to play some gotcha game, the only reason I phrased it that way is because he has repeatedly stated "in the world."

I have asked him this same question multiple times so he has had plenty of opportunities to clarify his views. He continues to avoid it just as he has avoided questions asking why his conversations with black people are more valid than other people's conversations with black people.

---

My apologies for using 'in this world.' I meant in this white culture of the USA.

---

If I said, "there's too much black culture in USA" would I be racist?

---

Of course you would be Mike, just like 47 is being, and has been this entire thread.

It will never change, as long as enough minion to take heed to the voices like his, the old relics of the past, that still chose to divide us by what we look and act like.

---

Yeah I don't even remember the word "racist" being used this much in 60s and 70s
""""""Gas-lighting """""""
I wonder if we're more divided now thanks to our 1st black president being so uniting. """""More Gaslighting """"""""

---

. Why respond to a lie? White privilege is simply walking around white. Black is simply being black in a white culture. Is that hard to grasp and acknowledge? What are you afraid of?

---

This is a becoming a fascinating study. 47 is taking the Clinton playbook and playing it perfect: just repeat a lie, don't answer any questions, just repeat repeat repeat hoping that someone..anyone..will believe it.

---

Except it's not a lie white privilege exists. It makes a difference to be white.

---

No facts. Just repeating an opinion over and over. We get it. You believe something exists based on your narrow viewpoint, your racist friends, listening to racist people, and no evidence. You clearly don't have anything new to bring to your repeat cycle. Are we done here? It breaks my heart that a human can be so obtuse but I am done casting pearls.

Edmond Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

90sBear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

90sBear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

90sBear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I'm not making any judgements about who's racist and who's not. To walk around in white skin is different than walking around in black skin. Can you not see that truth?

You guys keep creating your own definition of white privilege. White Privilege simply born into the world and you walk around white.

---

You have continued to avoid my question.

Do other ethnicities in this world have priveleges based only on their skin color?

---

Why would the rest of the world even be part of the discussion when we're talking about racial disparities in the United States?

Except for neo-nazi white nationalists, we don't measure ourselves by the "blood and soil" views of other countries, where citizenship was once based on ethnic identity. We're the only nation in the world founded on the principle that all men are created equal. And that's has always been the standard by which we measure ourselves.

---

Waco1947 has, since the first post in this thread, repeatedly stated "in this world." So he made it part of the discussion.

---

Fair enough. Do you think it should be part of the discussion?

---

I do because Waco1947 obviously believes it applies worldwide. I'm not trying to play some gotcha game, the only reason I phrased it that way is because he has repeatedly stated "in the world."

I have asked him this same question multiple times so he has had plenty of opportunities to clarify his views. He continues to avoid it just as he has avoided questions asking why his conversations with black people are more valid than other people's conversations with black people.

---

My apologies for using 'in this world.' I meant in this white culture of the USA.

---

If I said, "there's too much black culture in USA" would I be racist?

---

Of course you would be Mike, just like 47 is being, and has been this entire thread.

It will never change, as long as enough minion to take heed to the voices like his, the old relics of the past, that still chose to divide us by what we look and act like.

---

Yeah I don't even remember the word "racist" being used this much in 60s and 70s
""""""Gas-lighting """""""
I wonder if we're more divided now thanks to our 1st black president being so uniting. """""More Gaslighting """"""""

---

. Why respond to a lie? White privilege is simply walking around white. Black is simply being black in a white culture. Is that hard to grasp and acknowledge? What are you afraid of?

---

This is a becoming a fascinating study. 47 is taking the Clinton playbook and playing it perfect: just repeat a lie, don't answer any questions, just repeat repeat repeat hoping that someone..anyone..will believe it.

---

Except it's not a lie white privilege exists. It makes a difference to be white.

---

No facts. Just repeating an opinion over and over. We get it. You believe something exists based on your narrow viewpoint, your racist friends, listening to racist people, and no evidence. You clearly don't have anything new to bring to your repeat cycle. Are we done here? It breaks my heart that a human can be so obtuse but I am done casting pearls.

---

. I gave my proof - black leaders, black thinkers, black professors, black people, my black friends, black leaders say that white privilege exists. I trust their overwhelming word. Apparently you don't.

Just because people "think" something exists...doesn't make it so.

Waco1947 said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

90sBear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

90sBear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

90sBear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I'm not making any judgements about who's racist and who's not. To walk around in white skin is different than walking around in black skin. Can you not see that truth?

You guys keep creating your own definition of white privilege. White Privilege simply born into the world and you walk around white.

---

You have continued to avoid my question.

Do other ethnicities in this world have priveleges based only on their skin color?

---

Why would the rest of the world even be part of the discussion when we're talking about racial disparities in the United States?

Except for neo-nazi white nationalists, we don't measure ourselves by the "blood and soil" views of other countries, where citizenship was once based on ethnic identity. We're the only nation in the world founded on the principle that all men are created equal. And that's has always been the standard by which we measure ourselves.

---

Waco1947 has, since the first post in this thread, repeatedly stated "in this world." So he made it part of the discussion.

---

Fair enough. Do you think it should be part of the discussion?

---

I do because Waco1947 obviously believes it applies worldwide. I'm not trying to play some gotcha game, the only reason I phrased it that way is because he has repeatedly stated "in the world."

I have asked him this same question multiple times so he has had plenty of opportunities to clarify his views. He continues to avoid it just as he has avoided questions asking why his conversations with black people are more valid than other people's conversations with black people.

---

My apologies for using 'in this world.' I meant in this white culture of the USA.

---

If I said, "there's too much black culture in USA" would I be racist?

---

Of course you would be Mike, just like 47 is being, and has been this entire thread.

It will never change, as long as enough minion to take heed to the voices like his, the old relics of the past, that still chose to divide us by what we look and act like.

---

Yeah I don't even remember the word "racist" being used this much in 60s and 70s
""""""Gas-lighting """""""
I wonder if we're more divided now thanks to our 1st black president being so uniting. """""More Gaslighting """"""""

---

. Why respond to a lie? White privilege is simply walking around white. Black is simply being black in a white culture. Is that hard to grasp and acknowledge? What are you afraid of?

---

This is a becoming a fascinating study. 47 is taking the Clinton playbook and playing it perfect: just repeat a lie, don't answer any questions, just repeat repeat repeat hoping that someone..anyone..will believe it.

---

Except it's not a lie white privilege exists. It makes a difference to be white.

---

No facts. Just repeating an opinion over and over. We get it. You believe something exists based on your narrow viewpoint, your racist friends, listening to racist people, and no evidence. You clearly don't have anything new to bring to your repeat cycle. Are we done here? It breaks my heart that a human can be so obtuse but I am done casting pearls.

---

. I gave my proof - black leaders, black thinkers, black professors, black people, my black friends, black leaders say that white privilege exists. I trust their overwhelming word. Apparently you don't.

---

Let's start with the fact that there are tens of millions of Black Americans. I seriously doubt you have spoken with more than a few dozen, but even if I expand that to hundreds, by no means have you spoken to a majority of Black Americans. Not even what could be called a 'representative sample'.

Moreover, no one here has any way to confirm that your second-hand account of what someone else experience is being accurately relayed. Your very obvious emotion on the matter certainly makes it plausible that you might have exaggerated the claim out of a desire to persuade people. What is known is that no objective evidence for your claim has been presented.

Worse for you, your own desire to stoke anger based on race runs directly counter to Dr. King's own teachings. If Dr. King wanted his children to be judged by their character and their own specific actions as individuals, then a petulant demand that we look at skin color as a focus for argument is offensive on its face.

You cannot help someone discover their personhood, while demanding they still cling to victimhood. I have learned that in trying to help people over the years, and you need to learn it as well, if you truly want to help your friends find their identity and success.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Worse for you, your own desire to stoke anger based on race runs directly counter to Dr. King's own teachings. If Dr. King wanted his children to be judged by their character and their own specific actions as individuals, then a petulant demand that we look at skin color as a focus for argument is offensive on its face.

You cannot help someone discover their personhood, while demanding they still cling to victimhood. I have learned that in trying to help people over the years, and you need to learn it as well, if you truly want to help your friends find their identity and success.

---

Hang on a minute. Based on the logic of your argument, you'd have labeled Dr. King a racist. His famous 1963 speech that you cite began with a complaint that America had not lived up to its original promise of equality under the law. By your logic, he was "clinging to victimhood."

He dreamed of someday when everyone would be judged by their character rather than by their skin color. That hardly means MLK would have closed the door from that day on to talking about how skin color still affects the way people in this country are treated, and that is what is being talked about here.

Have we made a lot of progress since 1963? Of course.

Are black people in this country treated the same as white people? In many ways, no.
Are we a post-racial society? No.

How did we get to the point where some people claim it's racist to call out the persistence of racism?

bubbadog said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Worse for you, your own desire to stoke anger based on race runs directly counter to Dr. King's own teachings. If Dr. King wanted his children to be judged by their character and their own specific actions as individuals, then a petulant demand that we look at skin color as a focus for argument is offensive on its face.

You cannot help someone discover their personhood, while demanding they still cling to victimhood. I have learned that in trying to help people over the years, and you need to learn it as well, if you truly want to help your friends find their identity and success.

---

Hang on a minute. Based on the logic of your argument, you'd have labeled Dr. King a racist. His famous 1963 speech that you cite began with a complaint that America had not lived up to its original promise of equality under the law. By your logic, he was "clinging to victimhood."

He dreamed of someday when everyone would be judged by their character rather than by their skin color. That hardly means MLK would have closed the door from that day on to talking about how skin color still affects the way people in this country are treated, and that is what is being talked about here.

Have we made a lot of progress since 1963? Of course.

Are black people in this country treated the same as white people? In many ways, no.
Are we a post-racial society? No.

How did we get to the point where some people claim it's racist to call out the persistence of racism?

---

The problem, bubbadog, is that along with the good comes some bad.

There are black racists, some of them in elected office. That does not make blacks racist in general, anymore than racist whites impugn all whites, and it does not create a 'black privilege' anymore than there is some mythical 'white privilege'.

There remain many racists in many places. Sometimes they gain influence and power and are able to promote racist policies. Sometimes even judges come to support racist policies because they align with their personal politics and the judge sees no offense.

Broad-brush indictments of an entire race are foul and false, and frankly do no good for anyone. Fighting imaginary dragons means no one takes on the real ones.

Oldbear83 said:

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There are black racists, some of them in elected office. That does not make blacks racist in general, anymore than racist whites impugn all whites, and it does not create a 'black privilege' anymore than there is some mythical 'white privilege'.

There remain many racists in many places. Sometimes they gain influence and power and are able to promote racist policies. Sometimes even judges come to support racist policies because they align with their personal politics and the judge sees no offense.

Broad-brush indictments of an entire race are foul and false, and frankly do no good for anyone. Fighting imaginary dragons means no one takes on the real ones.

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To argue for the existence of something commonly called "white privilege" does not in my opinion constitute an indictment of an entire race. I understand why it may feel that way to some, which is why I don't think it's a term that's of much help in recognizing and discussing the situation.

The question comes down, really, to whether their skin color (and not the content of their character) puts African Americans at a disadvantage compared to white people. Though this is not true in every situation in American life, nor in every American institution, it is true enough in some very important situations. And there is a lot of strong evidence for this that does not rely on anecdotes alone.

Someone asked earlier whether there were any situations in America where it was more advantageous to be black than white. I tried to think of some.

It wouldn't be true in applying for a job. There has been a good deal of research showing that, given identical resums, a white person is more likely to get called for an interview and hired than an African American.

It's not true with perceptions of people you see on the street, and there's a lot of research behind this, too. If you're black, people are more likely to see you as a threat than if you're white. In simulations where people have a gun, they're more likely to shoot a black guy than a white guy.

It's not true with perceptions by the police. This doesn't mean the police don't shoot white people in situations where it could have been avoided. It means that the black guy is more at risk.

It's not true with housing. There's an abundance of historical evidence showing systematic housing and lending discrimination by Realtors and financial institutions, including the red-lining of neighborhoods to keep black people out. This systemic discrimination in turn has played a role in the concentration of black people in lower-income neighborhoods, which has contributed to a number of other social ills.

It wouldn't even apply to such basic things as driving and shopping. As a white man, I can feel confident that I can drive a nice car in any neighborhood I want without being followed by the police and then pulled over for some bull**** excuse, like my taillight that is in good working order was suddenly not working, or my wheel touched the center line. I can shop in a nice store without security following me around like I was a suspicious character. We don't feel privileged in this because they are basic activities. But black men will tell you their experience is quite different, even among those who have high incomes and advanced degrees.

There is clear and irrefutable evidence of discrimination in social programs that have had an effect on income and education that black people feel to this day. For example, the GI Bill originally excluded black servicemen, meaning that many didn't have the opportunity to go to college that white GIs received. Many of those white veterans (my father among them) were the first in their families to go to college. That milestone got postponed by a generation or more for black veterans, whose children could have enjoyed the benefits of their parent's education. This was also true of Social Security, which excluded agricultural and domestic workers for one specific reason: these were the occupations of the great majority of African Americans in the mid-1930s. Looking for answers as to why the average black household had less wealth than the average white household. Discrimination in Social Security isn't the only reason, but it's one of them.

One reason why "white privilege" is not a helpful term is that it doesn't help white people recognize how discrimination has warped opportunities for black people and how discrimination in some important areas of our national life persist today. If you're like me and most white people I know, we don't feel particularly "privileged." We had to work hard for what we have. Nobody handed us the keys to the penthouse. We have to abide by the same rules that are supposed to apply for everyone. Calling us "privileged" can make us feel defensive and blind us to ways that many black people have systematically been deprived of some of the opportunities we take for granted. And that's even more true if we -- like the majority of white people -- bear no conscious or personal prejudice against persons of color. And yet that lack of conscious prejudice cannot give us a moral pass when it comes to being aware of ways that black people even now still face discrimination and don't always receive equal protection under the law promised in our Constitution.

Hard to believe in 2017 there has to be a thread like this

Thanks Obama for taking us back 50 dam years!

Rather than go point by point with you bubba (and I notice you ducked some of my points), the biggest problem I see with the use of a phrase like "white privilege", is that minorities attack potential allies by that phrase.

My dad's father struggled to find work in the Depression, because he was Irish. Folks today would never believe it, but there was a time when being Irish was not too far different from being Black, Jewish, or Hispanic.

Irish were banned from Ivy League schools for generations. Just for being Irish.

Irish were banned from major banks and trading houses for generations. Just for being Irish.

Irish were regularly denied good jobs, homes in upscale neighborhoods, and access to good schools, just for being Irish.

I could go on, but my point is if you try to tell someone with deep Irish heritage that they benefited from 'White Privilege', most would laugh at the idiocy of the claim. The rest would try to punch you.

And the Irish are far from the only 'white' people to suffer discrimination. Find someone who was Polish before 1940, or Lithuanian, or Romanian. Hell, the Roma look white but are treated like garbage everywhere in the world, even today.

No one is denying the historic damage done by Racism, especially to Blacks (although historically there were fewer mobs who murdered whole communities of blacks than happened to Asians). But to pretend that white skin gave every white person a "privilege", is a despicable lie which will anger many people who might otherwise be sympathetic to someone who has suffered real harm from racism.

Individuals are the source of good and evil. Broad-brush labels do nothing but spread lies.

Oldbear83 said:

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Rather than go point by point with you bubba (and I notice you ducked some of my points), the biggest problem I see with the use of a phrase like "white privilege", is that minorities attack potential allies by that phrase.

My dad's father struggled to find work in the Depression, because he was Irish. Folks today would never believe it, but there was a time when being Irish was not too far different from being Black, Jewish, or Hispanic.

Irish were banned from Ivy League schools for generations. Just for being Irish.

Irish were banned from major banks and trading houses for generations. Just for being Irish.

Irish were regularly denied good jobs, homes in upscale neighborhoods, and access to good schools, just for being Irish.

I could go on, but my point is if you try to tell someone with deep Irish heritage that they benefited from 'White Privilege', most would laugh at the idiocy of the claim. The rest would try to punch you.

And the Irish are far from the only 'white' people to suffer discrimination. Find someone who was Polish before 1940, or Lithuanian, or Romanian. Hell, the Roma look white but are treated like garbage everywhere in the world, even today.

No one is denying the historic damage done by Racism, especially to Blacks (although historically there were fewer mobs who murdered whole communities of blacks than happened to Asians). But to pretend that white skin gave every white person a "privilege", is a despicable lie which will anger many people who might otherwise be sympathetic to someone who has suffered real harm from racism.

Individuals are the source of good and evil. Broad-brush labels do nothing but spread lies.

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Good stuff ^^^

Thanks

Earlier this summer, my longtime handyman was at my place to repair the backyard security gate. He loves to talk...about everything. When he finished, he decided to regale me with the latest goings on of his 250 pound football playing teen age son. Very casually, he described an altercation his kid had with a much smaller "Spanish" kid at school. Because his kid is "good", he was "pretty sure" was not the aggressor. A coach who had not seen the incident, was summoned to sort it all out. My handyman was not surprised at the outcome because it was exactly what he expected to happen. His kid was excused unpunished because again, he is a good kid. The "Spanish" kid was not so lucky.

It's like air. You don't notice it until it's no longer there.

cinque - what part of the country do you live in?

Waco1947 said:

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90sBear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Bona Fide Bear said:

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Another troll post by 47 that has no intent other than to further divide. So sad that some people are this pathetic.

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"Troll" "pathetic yet no reasoning as to why the premise is wrong. White skin is white privilege. Can you deny that truth?

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You started this thread with no reasoning as to why the premise is true. Support your own premise from the beginning before you criticize others for not providing an intelligent response.

I may not always agree with Tommie, but I respect his posting and ability to have a conversation.

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The premise is white skin is white privilege. The reasoning is to empathize and be black in your imagination In your imagination go to a restaurant with a white wife; go to the soccer field with your biracial children, walk a white neighborhood, drive a white neighbor. Black in a white culture is a different experience. Can you see that?

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White isn't a culture, but maybe I get what you're saying somewhat. Being black in American culture is of note. Before explaining, it should be noted that stereotypes have advantages and disadvantages. It's not some terrible thing to walk around being black in America, and it seems like you think it is.

After living in Africa for 4 years I got a small sense of what it might be like for a black man in a white majority nation. It's not exactly the same, and no doubt black Americans have more hardships than a white guy walking around Africa. I don't imagine I got as many looks of disapproval, or people walking back in their homes or to the other side of the road b/c I happened to walk by. There were certainly some curious people, and a few that didn't like that I was walking around in their neighborhood.

People randomly touch your hair as a white man in Africa. It's a complaint that some black people have in America. Some people will stare incessantly. It's awkward. You're a target for thieves. You're a target for corrupt police officers. Not life threatening of course. They just want a bribe. It sucks to walk down the road and always be noticed by the majority of the population. There is no way to just be another face in the crowd and relax. When you go outside there is always a disruption to the day that is looming, whether it be a glance from a group of strangers, or a second look from a police officer. A hotel or vendor would attempt to charge me more, however as a black man I may have been turned away. It's a constant reminder that you are different. Not a big deal for a few weeks. But 4 years, or lifetime of that, and it starts to mess with you.

Edmond Bear said:

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cinque - what part of the country do you live in?

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I'm guessing he's local

Austin?

Edmond Bear said:

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cinque - what part of the country do you live in?

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North Texas.

cinque said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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cinque - what part of the country do you live in?

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North Texas.

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Austin = north Texas to you?

Florda_mike said:

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cinque said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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cinque - what part of the country do you live in?

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North Texas.

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Austin = north Texas to you?

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You still live in Florda?

Florda_mike said:

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Hard to believe in 2017 there has to be a thread like this

Thanks Obama for taking us back 50 dam years!

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White privilege existed way before the Obama presidency.

FrankFallonCalling said:

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It's not privilege, it's choices.

cinque said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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cinque - what part of the country do you live in?

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North Texas.

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You must have found the single human in North Texas that refers to Latin Americans as "Spanish."

fadskier said:

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FrankFallonCalling said:

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It's not privilege, it's choices.

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That's an interesting takeaway.

"One reason why "white privilege" is not a helpful term is that it doesn't help white people recognize how discrimination has warped opportunities for black people and how discrimination in some important areas of our national life persist today. If you're like me and most white people I know, we don't feel particularly "privileged." We had to work hard for what we have. Nobody handed us the keys to the penthouse. We have to abide by the same rules that are supposed to apply for everyone. Calling us "privileged" can make us feel defensive and blind us to ways that many black people have systematically been deprived of some of the opportunities we take for granted. And that's even more true if we -- like the majority of white people -- bear no conscious or personal prejudice against persons of color. And yet that lack of conscious prejudice cannot give us a moral pass when it comes to being aware of ways that black people even now still face discrimination and don't always receive equal protection under the law promised in our Constitution." Bubbadog hits the nail on the head.
I would agree the 'white privilege' may not be a helpful but in the dealing the soft racism of whites here on 365 and society at large any term that might hint at racism by whites almost always gets hostility. Why? Because as bubbadog says "lack of conscious prejudice" is hidden from whites. It is why race is so hard to talk about.
Everybody speaks out against racism after Charlottesville but let a black player kneel at the national anthem and the soft racism breaks out again with shouts ingratitude, entitlement and disrespect rather than really, really hearing that the kneeling is to protest police brutality and social injustice.

Waco1947 said:

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"One reason why "white privilege" is not a helpful term is that it doesn't help white people recognize how discrimination has warped opportunities for black people and how discrimination in some important areas of our national life persist today. If you're like me and most white people I know, we don't feel particularly "privileged." We had to work hard for what we have. Nobody handed us the keys to the penthouse. We have to abide by the same rules that are supposed to apply for everyone. Calling us "privileged" can make us feel defensive and blind us to ways that many black people have systematically been deprived of some of the opportunities we take for granted. And that's even more true if we -- like the majority of white people -- bear no conscious or personal prejudice against persons of color. And yet that lack of conscious prejudice cannot give us a moral pass when it comes to being aware of ways that black people even now still face discrimination and don't always receive equal protection under the law promised in our Constitution." Bubbadog hits the nail on the head.
I would agree the 'white privilege' may not be a helpful but in the dealing the soft racism of whites here on 365 and society at large any term that might hint at racism by whites almost always gets hostility. Why? Because as bubbadog says "lack of conscious prejudice" is hidden from whites. It is why race is so hard to talk about.
Everybody speaks out against racism after Charlottesville but let a black player kneel at the national anthem and the soft racism breaks out again with shouts ingratitude, entitlement and disrespect rather than really, really hearing that the kneeling is to protest police brutality and social injustice.

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Really strong take.

Everyone has struggled at some point in their life and when certain words are thrown around, defenses immediately go up as people recall those struggles.