FLBear, you have several credibility problems you might want to address:

First, you like to pretend objectivity, as if you give Trump his due when he's right and only criticize him when he is wrong. In truth, you far more commonly go after Trump, and even when you give credit, it's usually conditioned on some future behavior you demand, or the compliment is attached to an attack, as if you think giving some small credit will make your accusation more believable. If you want to look objective, you should more often give Trump credit and leave it there.

Second, the problem with ICE is not just that ICE has recently added a large number of agents, with the normal portion of inexperienced agents and perhaps some confusion about policy, but also that there are large organized groups working against ICE, in many cases in direct violation of law. The effects of those groups' actions need to be considered as causes for some of the clashes we have seen in the media. In fact, documents produced recently appear to suggest that these groups wanted violent conflict in order to draw attention to their cause.

Third, it's no coincidence that these violent events are happening in an election year. The Democrats are plainly attempting to repeat 2020, which you may recall was accentuated by obscene leftist violence. It behooves conservatives to resist rewarding such tactics.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Goode drove her car at ICE.

Pretti brought his gun.


I am sorry they died, but the honest folks will recognize their incidents were provoked by the people who suffered for their rash decisions.

---

Granted, I have no issues with that. Concede your point. Their fault, ICE handled perfectly.

Ok, you had 13 people shot over the course of a year. At some point, leadership has to look at what is going on and make adjustments. An Agency can't keep shooting people in the street and generating several thousand people protests. This is not Fallujah, these are not military troops. The goal can't be to break the resistance in to compliance. It is law enforcement in the US.

You can blame the people, but what does the Agency do to reduce that conflict. And yes, it will be more in some areas of the Nation. Fact of a Democracy and a 50/50 political split. When an Agency generates this type of response it is time to step back and re-address strategy for this area. It is not about who wins in Court, it can't always be a hammer/anvil response.

---

There it is again! "Law enforcement should have expected violent opposition to the enforcing the law and they should have used a magic wand to de-escalate!" Such a clown

---

Have you ever sat and had to mediate between law enforcement and locals? I have on public safety.

Law Enforcement has their expectations and the public agencies have what they can actually deliver. The two sometimes do not meet, you have to reduce the gap between expectations or you will have a blow up. You have to get to what the expectations are and find a way around the differences.

It looks like Homan is doing that. There are political realities Frey is operating under and Homan is operating under. Frey can't take a knee, that is not why he was elected. Homan can't concede. You starting to get it? It is not as easy as the Fed does what they want because of the Supremacy Clause.

Now, if you want to discuss the realities of Federal, State and Local interactions let's have a discussion. If you want to just say they deserved to be shot they were wrong. You are missing the point and there is opportunity here for Trump.

---

So you still have ZERO methods for de-escalation? You think Frey's political career means more than enforcing federal laws? The agencies should work around the democrats desire to not enforce immigration law? *** are you talking about? There was NEVER going to be to be cooperation until the hammer was brought down. Now that the democrats have felt that hammer they are finally cooperating with ICE, or at least stated that they will begin to do so.
You simply refuse to understand that de-escalation with the democrats only happens when ICE leaves the state completely, right? And that's not going to happen. But you blame ICE and not the democrat instigators or the democrats who carry out their orders and attack.

---

De-escalate? Easy.

1- Go tactical for violent Criminals only
2 - For normal citizens, go FBI or US Marshall style. Suit or the Blue Jacket
3 - Outside of criminal point operations, work in pairs
4 - Treat people with respect. If they are not criminal, they are an Administrative function.
5 - Don't go into Church, Hospitals and Schools to grab people.
6- Don't send 3000 Agents to handle a small amount of illegals. ICE invaded MN, that set this off.



The question for you is - Why the surge of 3000 ICE agents in MN the #23 in illegal immigrants in the US?

---

None of those would have stopped Good or Pretti from acting in the democrat rhetoric that would have been exactly the same had all your steps been followed. Now what? How do you de-escalate Good out of blocking the street, harassing and interfering with law enforcement? How do you make up for the need of 3,000 agents due to non-compliance from local democrat governments?

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Goode drove her car at ICE.

Pretti brought his gun.


I am sorry they died, but the honest folks will recognize their incidents were provoked by the people who suffered for their rash decisions.

---

Granted, I have no issues with that. Concede your point. Their fault, ICE handled perfectly.

Ok, you had 13 people shot over the course of a year. At some point, leadership has to look at what is going on and make adjustments. An Agency can't keep shooting people in the street and generating several thousand people protests. This is not Fallujah, these are not military troops. The goal can't be to break the resistance in to compliance. It is law enforcement in the US.

You can blame the people, but what does the Agency do to reduce that conflict. And yes, it will be more in some areas of the Nation. Fact of a Democracy and a 50/50 political split. When an Agency generates this type of response it is time to step back and re-address strategy for this area. It is not about who wins in Court, it can't always be a hammer/anvil response.

---

There it is again! "Law enforcement should have expected violent opposition to the enforcing the law and they should have used a magic wand to de-escalate!" Such a clown

---

Have you ever sat and had to mediate between law enforcement and locals? I have on public safety.

Law Enforcement has their expectations and the public agencies have what they can actually deliver. The two sometimes do not meet, you have to reduce the gap between expectations or you will have a blow up. You have to get to what the expectations are and find a way around the differences.

It looks like Homan is doing that. There are political realities Frey is operating under and Homan is operating under. Frey can't take a knee, that is not why he was elected. Homan can't concede. You starting to get it? It is not as easy as the Fed does what they want because of the Supremacy Clause.

Now, if you want to discuss the realities of Federal, State and Local interactions let's have a discussion. If you want to just say they deserved to be shot they were wrong. You are missing the point and there is opportunity here for Trump.

---

So you still have ZERO methods for de-escalation? You think Frey's political career means more than enforcing federal laws? The agencies should work around the democrats desire to not enforce immigration law? *** are you talking about? There was NEVER going to be to be cooperation until the hammer was brought down. Now that the democrats have felt that hammer they are finally cooperating with ICE, or at least stated that they will begin to do so.
You simply refuse to understand that de-escalation with the democrats only happens when ICE leaves the state completely, right? And that's not going to happen. But you blame ICE and not the democrat instigators or the democrats who carry out their orders and attack.

---

De-escalate? Easy.

1- Go tactical for violent Criminals only
2 - For normal citizens, go FBI or US Marshall style. Suit or the Blue Jacket
3 - Outside of criminal point operations, work in pairs

---

Can you exercise your brain for just one minute and think of WHY these agents might be all geared up, masked, and won't work in pairs, even for the non-criminal illegal immigrants? Take your ideological horse blinders off for just a brief moment to assess all what else is going on around them. Try to suppress your knee jerk tendency to see this as only a law enforcement problem, and be more objective.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Goode drove her car at ICE.

Pretti brought his gun.


I am sorry they died, but the honest folks will recognize their incidents were provoked by the people who suffered for their rash decisions.

---

Granted, I have no issues with that. Concede your point. Their fault, ICE handled perfectly.

Ok, you had 13 people shot over the course of a year. At some point, leadership has to look at what is going on and make adjustments. An Agency can't keep shooting people in the street and generating several thousand people protests. This is not Fallujah, these are not military troops. The goal can't be to break the resistance in to compliance. It is law enforcement in the US.

You can blame the people, but what does the Agency do to reduce that conflict. And yes, it will be more in some areas of the Nation. Fact of a Democracy and a 50/50 political split. When an Agency generates this type of response it is time to step back and re-address strategy for this area. It is not about who wins in Court, it can't always be a hammer/anvil response.

---

There it is again! "Law enforcement should have expected violent opposition to the enforcing the law and they should have used a magic wand to de-escalate!" Such a clown

---

Have you ever sat and had to mediate between law enforcement and locals? I have on public safety.

Law Enforcement has their expectations and the public agencies have what they can actually deliver. The two sometimes do not meet, you have to reduce the gap between expectations or you will have a blow up. You have to get to what the expectations are and find a way around the differences.

It looks like Homan is doing that. There are political realities Frey is operating under and Homan is operating under. Frey can't take a knee, that is not why he was elected. Homan can't concede. You starting to get it? It is not as easy as the Fed does what they want because of the Supremacy Clause.

Now, if you want to discuss the realities of Federal, State and Local interactions let's have a discussion. If you want to just say they deserved to be shot they were wrong. You are missing the point and there is opportunity here for Trump.

---

So you still have ZERO methods for de-escalation? You think Frey's political career means more than enforcing federal laws? The agencies should work around the democrats desire to not enforce immigration law? *** are you talking about? There was NEVER going to be to be cooperation until the hammer was brought down. Now that the democrats have felt that hammer they are finally cooperating with ICE, or at least stated that they will begin to do so.
You simply refuse to understand that de-escalation with the democrats only happens when ICE leaves the state completely, right? And that's not going to happen. But you blame ICE and not the democrat instigators or the democrats who carry out their orders and attack.

---

De-escalate? Easy.

1- Go tactical for violent Criminals only
2 - For normal citizens, go FBI or US Marshall style. Suit or the Blue Jacket
3 - Outside of criminal point operations, work in pairs

---

Can you exercise your brain for just one minute and think of WHY these agents might be all geared up, masked, and won't work in pairs, even for the non-criminal illegal immigrants? Take your ideological horse blinders off for just a brief moment to assess all what else is going on around them. Try to suppress your knee jerk tendency to see this as only a law enforcement problem, and be more objective.

---

"When you argue with a fool, it's just two fools arguing."

It's funny because one one hand he'll tell you to only go after violent illegal aliens ... and then he was unarmed agents in dresses to apprehend them.

You cannot make up this level of stupidity.

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear, you have several credibility problems you might want to address:

First, you like to pretend objectivity, as if you give Trump his due when he's right and only criticize him when he is wrong. In truth, you far more commonly go after Trump, and even when you give credit, it's usually conditioned on some future behavior you demand, or the compliment is attached to an attack, as if you think giving some small credit will make your accusation more believable. If you want to look objective, you should more often give Trump credit and leave it there.

Second, the problem with ICE is not just that ICE has recently added a large number of agents, with the normal portion of inexperienced agents and perhaps some confusion about policy, but also that there are large organized groups working against ICE, in many cases in direct violation of law. The effects of those groups' actions need to be considered as causes for some of the clashes we have seen in the media. In fact, documents produced recently appear to suggest that these groups wanted violent conflict in order to draw attention to their cause.

Third, it's no coincidence that these violent events are happening in an election year. The Democrats are plainly attempting to repeat 2020, which you may recall was accentuated by obscene leftist violence. It behooves conservatives to resist rewarding such tactics.

---

Your first point. Well taken, my kids would probably agree. Why talk about the good stuff? If it ain't broke, don't mess with it. That is going fine, time and energy are invested in improving the weak areas. So, I focus on what needs to be fixed. As I said in another post, there are numerous areas I am good with and two that I am coming around on - Bessent and Hegswoth.

Second, that is the problem. You put a large number of inexperienced people in any situation and there is a learning curve. Perfect example is Perti. The officer shouting "Gun, Gun, Gun" while another officer had him disarmed and had the weapon. Lack of communication. Seasoned teams know how to work and communicate. Those new officers in MN is a powder keg. We do not disagree. I put the blame on Bovino, he should know better. The young guys are doing what young guys do. In my opinion, putting the new guys in FL, TX, AZ would have been smarter because they would have at least had the public on their side while they got experience with guys who see this stuff every day. MN, not so much.

#3 and #2 go together. The surge in an election year made it worse. ICE is shooting too many people, leadership has to look at why and how to not reach that point.

Finally, put Noem in charge of Interior, not HSA. That needs someone like Homan.