EatMoreSalmon said:
Sam Lowry said:
EatMoreSalmon said:
Sam Lowry said:
EatMoreSalmon said:
Sam Lowry said:
EatMoreSalmon said:
Sam Lowry said:
EatMoreSalmon said:
Sam Lowry said:
There have been hundreds of thousands of Gazans living in refugee camps for decades, and many more who are displaced (a majority of the population, in fact).
Where did the Gazans in Gaza go during the war?
Gaza. You're really not keeping up with events, are you?
Yes, they essentially had no where to go to get away from Hamas's launchers and installations which were all over tiny Gaza. Thank you for admitting you've been mistaken about their options.
That's cute. In all seriousness, though, there are dozens of camps and over a thousand temporary displacement centers around Gaza. Most of them consist of tents and outdoor sleeping areas, which aren't well suited for the legendary Hamas tunnels or other installations.
So Hamas didn't really have military tunnels all over Gaza, you say?
Are you denying also that Hamas regularly threatened civilians not to leave their homes when the idf gave warnings?
These are just the verified tunnels.
https://tunnels.honestreporting.com/
On Hamas' desire to keep civilians in harms way:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-tells-gaza-residents-stay-home-israel-ground-offensive-looms-2023-10-13/
https://henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/HJS-Hamass-Human-Shield-Strategy-in-Gaza-Report-WEB.pdf
They have tunnels. Are they everywhere in Gaza? Clearly not according to your map.
They also sometimes instruct people to stay in their homes. I don't see anything there about threats.
You are so disingenuous at times that it must hurt you. Your comment here is seriously a capitulation of the narrative you've been trying to sell.
How so?
If I need to tell you how much you ignore what is in front of you to protect your view, you won't listen anyway.
But I'll give it a try against my better judgement.
"They have tunnels. Are they everywhere in Gaza? Clearly not according to your map."
The makers of the map stated that it is not exhaustive as it is only showing what is verified. The creators admit there is more than what is shown. What is shown is all over a very small area. What you said is similar to someone saying New York isn't fully covered by its subway system because there is "free space" between tunnels.
"They also sometimes instruct people to stay in their homes. I don't see anything there about threats."
You clearly decided to ignore information in the articles linked along with a preponderance of available articles from any brief search stating the same. Characterizing the articles as "Hamas sometimes instructed people to stay in their homes" in no way summarizes what the articles report. Hamas like ISIS in Mosul, wanted civilians around their military installations which were purposely placed in the most densely populated parts of the crowded Gaza Strip, most notably in Gaza City.
You're rushing to make value judgments because you're trying to sell a narrative. I'm just trying to establish some basic facts. Instead we're having this frankly absurd debate about whether Gaza has refugee camps or whether it's Manhattan on the Mediterranean. Disclaimers notwithstanding, I presume your map is at least in the universe of remotely reasonable approximations. Otherwise I'm not sure why you posted it.
Your articles contain much that's worth discussing about both sides. "Hamas sometimes instructed people to stay in their homes" isn't meant to be a full summary, but at least it's accurate. "Threatening them not to stay" is your own fabrication, as far one can tell. The HJS article correctly acknowledges that Hamas may have multiple motives for their instructions. The same may well be true of the IDF. Unfortunately each side's abuses enable the other's. Israel's are on a much greater scale, however, and they are the occupying force. The fact that Palestinians cling to their land (and they do so stubbornly enough regardless of how they feel about Hamas) doesn't give Israel carte blanche to kill indiscriminately.
Of course, all of that is based on your assumption that we're only talking about collateral damage. You still haven't addressed the evidence that the IDF kills civilians intentionally, which is the foundation of the charge of genocide.
