President Trump announces military strikes on Iran: Operation Epic Fury

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Sam Lowry
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boognish_bear said:



I was not expecting to hear this for at least a couple of weeks.

Another hour, another indication of what a complete cluster**** Trump has initiated.
The_barBEARian
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FormerFlash said:

The_barBEARian said:

boognish_bear said:




Great! So we are throwing away congress for Israel!

Looks like open borders are back on the menu boys!!!

Touch grass.




I'm waiting for you to say "You know what? I was wrong"
KaiBear
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The_barBEARian said:

boognish_bear said:




Great! So we are throwing away congress for Israel!

Looks like open borders are back on the menu boys!!!


No surprise.

Now that it has been made clear that the US military is under the indirect control of Israeli lobbyists in DC…….

tactically it is imperative to maintain the option to deploy ground troops.

Most likely our Marines and the 82nd Airborne division would be the first units deployed.



historian
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Realitybites said:

FLBear5630 said:


I think friendly fire is not a message the Pentagon wants out there. I see no advantages to that message.


Our side has claimed that the IDF has achieved air superiority. If the Iranian Air Force is shooting down F-15s in Kuwaiti airspace, that clearly is not the case.

This'd planes were shot down by Kuwaitis mistaking them for Iranian missiles and drones. It was friendly fire. Thankfully all 6 US personnel ejected and are fine.
historian
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We can hope. If the current war brings far reaching changes to the region that might be possible. I'm keeping my expectations low because it's the Middle East and geopolitics is far too unpredictable, especially long term.
historian
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ATL Bear said:

historian said:

Maybe Hinduism is not as bad but Hindus persecute Christian's ruthlessly, especially Indians who convert. They can be as intolerant as anyone else.
I've rarely if ever seen that. More often I've seen them integrate a day for Jesus in their weekly worship cycle. I've seen Christmas and Easter celebrations in Hindu Temples. Unlike the three Abrahamic religions, exclusivity of deity doesn't exist. That's why Buddhist ideals even get wrapped into Hinduism. There is no one path or window,

Hindus and Muslims clash mostly due to historical cultural and Nationalist differences.

That's because Hinduism is polytheistic. They can incorporate other faiths into their own but on their terms. It negates the significance of Christ's death and resurrection, though, by treating Christianity as equal to false religions.

It also involves calling Jesus a liar when He said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes into the Father but through me." John 14:6

God does not lie and cannot lie because He is truth, the ultimate truth.
Realitybites
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Sam Lowry said:

boognish_bear said:



I was not expecting to hear this for at least a couple of weeks.

Another hour, another indication of what a complete cluster**** Trump has initiated.



He will do it when Netanyahu and Adelson order him to and not one minute before.
historian
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fubar said:

FLBear5630 said:


My logic, but I am sure we will soon hear that we should not be discussing. The biggest event in the Middle East since 1945 and we should only say Thank You...

I'm also a USAF veteran, and I say thank you to the airmen, sailors and soldiers who are fighting for us. I have high confidence in our military's preparation and ability. I wish every American in theater the best and hope for all a safe return home. Don't we all?

With that said, I have doubts that this war has been thoroughly thought through by our civilian leaders. I don't know what our objectives are, and I don't know why we're doing this now. I'm also concerned that this might explode into something much bigger.

Honest discussion is good. Keep it up.


All valid points. From what I've read it seems the strike took place when it did and the way it fid because of an unexpected opportunity: all the top leaders were in one room at the same time. In fact, they took out 48 others in addition to the "Supreme Leader". It was a golden opportunity not to be passed up. There are still a lot of top figures in the military & bureaucracy and many question marks. Hopefully, the people will somehow be able to take their destiny by the horns and force the issue. The odds are against that because they don't have arms or weapons training and the remaining officials have both.

In the end, I believe, Iran's fate will be decided by the military: will the prop up what's left of the leadership or with the people. If the former it could end up being a bigger bloodbath like the aftermath of Tiananmen Square in 1989. If the latter, it by like Romania in 1989 with dictator and his wife dead and everyone else ok (after the military switched sides). There are plenty of other historical examples plus there is the logic of power: those with the guns decide.
historian
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FormerFlash said:

Couple thoughts here...President Trump should not openly state he's against putting troops on the ground to news outlets because we want the Iranians thinking everything is on the table. I also appreciate a president saying he doesn't care about polling. Make the right decision, not the popular decision. He has access to information the general public does not. Polling should not be influencing those incredibly important decision.

But him saying this out loud doesn't mean he isn't against it. Loose lips sink ships. Keeps the cards close to the chest.

Exactly. That statement was for an international audience not a domestic one.
Sam Lowry
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Realitybites said:

Sam Lowry said:

boognish_bear said:



I was not expecting to hear this for at least a couple of weeks.

Another hour, another indication of what a complete cluster**** Trump has initiated.



He will do it when Netanyahu and Adelson order him to and not one minute before.

It would take a long time if it could be done at all, but the fact they've already pulled a 180 shows that things aren't going to plan.
Porteroso
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historian said:

FormerFlash said:

Couple thoughts here...President Trump should not openly state he's against putting troops on the ground to news outlets because we want the Iranians thinking everything is on the table. I also appreciate a president saying he doesn't care about polling. Make the right decision, not the popular decision. He has access to information the general public does not. Polling should not be influencing those incredibly important decision.

But him saying this out loud doesn't mean he isn't against it. Loose lips sink ships. Keeps the cards close to the chest.

Exactly. That statement was for an international audience not a domestic one.

If loose lips really sunk ships, we would not have a Navy.

It's getting a little old to hear you guys try to explain away Trump's comments. This is not some tactical, deliberate comment, meant to influence the Iranians.

We heard Trump just wanted to tariff China, not the whole world, that he wouldn't attack Iran, he was just negotiating, that he would follow the Constitution on immigration even though he said he was trying to side step it....

No, Trump is saying he might commit boots to the ground, because it's going through his head.

And we just learned that we didn't even think this military aggression was necessary...... we are just along for the ride because the Israelis want war with Iran....

If what Rubio said is true, we are not in control of this at all. What a wild thing for Rubio to admit to. There is no possibility that we get out of this without major damage, if we just ride Israel's coattails until they decide enough is enough.
Sam Lowry
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Porteroso said:

historian said:

FormerFlash said:

Couple thoughts here...President Trump should not openly state he's against putting troops on the ground to news outlets because we want the Iranians thinking everything is on the table. I also appreciate a president saying he doesn't care about polling. Make the right decision, not the popular decision. He has access to information the general public does not. Polling should not be influencing those incredibly important decision.

But him saying this out loud doesn't mean he isn't against it. Loose lips sink ships. Keeps the cards close to the chest.

Exactly. That statement was for an international audience not a domestic one.

If loose lips really sunk ships, we would not have a Navy.

It's getting a little old to hear you guys try to explain away Trump's comments. This is not some tactical, deliberate comment, meant to influence the Iranians.

We heard Trump just wanted to tariff China, not the whole world, that he wouldn't attack Iran, he was just negotiating, that he would follow the Constitution on immigration even though he said he was trying to side step it....

No, Trump is saying he might commit boots to the ground, because it's going through his head.

And we just learned that we didn't even think this military aggression was necessary...... we are just along for the ride because the Israelis want war with Iran....

If what Rubio said is true, we are not in control of this at all. What a wild thing for Rubio to admit to. There is no possibility that we get out of this without major damage, if we just ride Israel's coattails until they decide enough is enough.

Rubio has taken his cue from Netanyahu: pivot from "Iran has nukes" to "Iran has missiles."

The question is what happens when we decide enough is enough and Iran doesn't agree this time.
Oldbear83
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Sam seems unaware of what Iran has been doing with missiles the last day or two.
ShooterTX
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FLBear5630 said:

I do like Rubio.

I think most people with a functioning brain like Rubio.

Probably the best Sec of State in my life time.

boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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EatMoreSalmon
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boognish_bear said:




The missiles Iran is using indicate they had been pursuing weapons they already agreed not to pursue until 2023. It is pretty well established they continued developing their missiles while the 2015 agreement was in force. It is also apparent that they are using some targeting that has improved since they last attacked Israel. That would indicate to me they have been getting some outside help. I would bet the US had good intel that something was up there.

I really have no problem attacking a rogue state like Iran with air power. A weaker Iran is a better Iran for stability in an area of strategic and economic importance. Their attacks on Middle East neighbors is certainly supporting that concept.
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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FLBear5630
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boognish_bear said:



After all these years we didn't help them build pipeline to areas not relying on the Straits? I find that fascinating.
Sam Lowry
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boognish_bear said:



Another hour, another sign.
J.R.
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FLBear5630 said:

I do like Rubio.

I do too . With the exception of Bessent, Little Marco knows what he is doing. Professional. Not a bomb thrower. Viva la Cuba!
The_barBEARian
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ShooterTX said:

FLBear5630 said:

I do like Rubio.

I think most people with a functioning brain like Rubio.

Probably the best Sec of State in my life time.




I think most Boomers with amyloid plaques like Rubio.
boognish_bear
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The_barBEARian
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boognish_bear said:




Trump is a good little Goy!
boognish_bear
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KaiBear
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boognish_bear said:



Rubio is correct...still again.


By the way....anyone else notice how quickly the Arab States have united in siding with the US ?

Yes...Iran was incredibly stupid in lauching drones at them.

However the COORDINATION of these statements from the Arab States .....suggest to me RUBIO has been doing some solid diplomatic work.

Easily the best Secretary of the State in my lifetime.




The_barBEARian
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KaiBear said:

boognish_bear said:



Rubio is correct...still again.


By the way....anyone else notice how quickly the Arab States have united in siding with the US ?

Yes...Iran was incredibly stupid in lauching drones at them.

However the COORDINATION of these statements from the Arab States .....suggest to me RUBIO has been doing some solid diplomatic work.

Easily the best Secretary of the State in my lifetime.




Sir, you were complaining about Zionists controlling our politicians...well Rubio is their top guy. Why else do you think he got appointed as the Secretary of State with 100% of the senate voting in favor of his confirmation?

Rubio is the MVP of corrupt, zionist controlled politicians.

If Rubio ever becomes President, he will do the exact same thing Trump just did and put the interests of Israel and the demi-god Gulf Arab despots over the American tax payer.
J.R.
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have a friend who is flying over to visit from the US. Stuck in Dubai! Disaster.
EatMoreSalmon
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The_barBEARian said:

KaiBear said:

boognish_bear said:



Rubio is correct...still again.


By the way....anyone else notice how quickly the Arab States have united in siding with the US ?

Yes...Iran was incredibly stupid in lauching drones at them.

However the COORDINATION of these statements from the Arab States .....suggest to me RUBIO has been doing some solid diplomatic work.

Easily the best Secretary of the State in my lifetime.




Sir, you were complaining about Zionists controlling our politicians...well Rubio is their top guy. Why else do you think he got appointed as the Secretary of State with 100% of the senate voting in favor of his confirmation?

Rubio is the MVP of corrupt, zionist controlled politicians.

If Rubio ever becomes President, he will do the exact same thing Trump just did and put the interests of Israel and the demi-god Gulf Arab despots over the American tax payer.



The_barBEARian
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EatMoreSalmon said:

The_barBEARian said:

KaiBear said:

boognish_bear said:



Rubio is correct...still again.


By the way....anyone else notice how quickly the Arab States have united in siding with the US ?

Yes...Iran was incredibly stupid in lauching drones at them.

However the COORDINATION of these statements from the Arab States .....suggest to me RUBIO has been doing some solid diplomatic work.

Easily the best Secretary of the State in my lifetime.




Sir, you were complaining about Zionists controlling our politicians...well Rubio is their top guy. Why else do you think he got appointed as the Secretary of State with 100% of the senate voting in favor of his confirmation?

Rubio is the MVP of corrupt, zionist controlled politicians.

If Rubio ever becomes President, he will do the exact same thing Trump just did and put the interests of Israel and the demi-god Gulf Arab despots over the American tax payer.






The problem is the people who agree with me are smart enough to understand the futility of arguing with you Israel First Boomers... I still struggle to reach their state of nirvana.
Mothra
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Sam Lowry said:

boognish_bear said:



I was not expecting to hear this for at least a couple of weeks.

Another hour, another indication of what a complete cluster**** Trump has initiated.

Or perhaps Trump is using that threat as leverage instead of ridiculously alleging that there will be limits on the force used during a war.

I'd say the chances of Trump putting any meaningful number of troops on the ground are slim to none. Perhaps special operations, and the sort, but nothing more.
Mothra
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Sam Lowry said:

Mothra said:

Sam Lowry said:

Mothra said:

Sam Lowry said:

Mothra said:

Sam Lowry said:

Mothra said:

Sam Lowry said:

Mothra said:

Sam Lowry said:

Doc Holliday said:

As a Christian, you must affirm that any worship outside of Christ is demonic worship. Period.

They've built 48 mosques in Texas in just the last two years. Think about what we're surrounded by




Nonsense. Jews and Muslims are not devil worshipers.

Anything that is not of Christ, and leads men astray, is the work of Satan. I think the vast majority of Christians understand that (or should).

Are you trying to tell me that Jews worship Satan?

Tell me, do you believe that Jews and Muslims are worshipping the same God as Christians? If no, what is it they are worshipping?

Yes.

And since you believe that Muslims and Jews likewise worship the triune God of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, do you believe they are saved?

I didn't say that, and you didn't answer my question.

I asked you whether Jews and Muslims worship the same God as Christians, and your response was "Yes."

That being the case, what God do you believe Christians worship? I am not Catholic, but it's my understanding that even the Catholics believe (or purport to believe) in a triune God. Is that not what you believe?

As for the Jews and Muslims, they aren't worshipping God at all. There is only one God, and it is the triune God of the NT. If you don't believe in that God, then you are worshipping something else entirely. What it is, I am not sure. Maybe just a figment of their imagination. But whatever it is, it is indeed of the devil.



Jews, Muslims, and Christians worship the God of Abraham, but only Christians understand his triune nature.

I'm still curious what you think is the Good News and why Catholics don't believe it.

No, it's not God's nature Jews and Muslims get wrong, but God himself. They don't worship the true God of the universe.

As for Catholics, they don't believe salvation is a free gift, but instead they believe in a works-based faith. I've encountered Catholics who I believe are Christian, and although misguided on some issues, get the important points right. You are not one of them, based on many of your comments on this board, as well as the issues you support.

Unbelievable.

Only to the non-Christian.
KaiBear
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Mothra said:

Sam Lowry said:

boognish_bear said:



I was not expecting to hear this for at least a couple of weeks.

Another hour, another indication of what a complete cluster**** Trump has initiated.

Or perhaps Trump is using that threat as leverage instead of ridiculously alleging that there will be limits on the force used during a war.

I'd say the chances of Trump putting any meaningful number of troops on the ground are slim to none. Perhaps special operations, and the sort, but nothing more.


Your scenario would be nice.

But my guts tell me the Revolutionary Guards are far too numerous for just a hand full of special ops.

If this deal goes 'traditional'……gonna need some serious numbers on the ground.

Problem is …. it takes weeks to ship tanks.

So if US troops are needed….will most likely be marines , the 82 airborne……and one hell of a lot of 24/7 air support to make up for the differences in raw numbers.

Maybe the Israeli IDF will join in with some tanks…but I doubt it. They would much rather have us pigeons carry the load.
 
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