President Trump announces military strikes on Iran: Operation Epic Fury

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BellCountyBear
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The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

BearFan33 said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

D. C. Bear said:

FLBear5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:




Yeah, I would say. Some idiots think these guys know and do nothing. Guy just dedicated his life to working on protecting American since 9/11. His resignation letter is linked below. You may not agree with all his politics, I don't, but he knows war and intel.

It amazes me that otherwise intelligent people believe that all Government employees do nothing of value.



Joe Kent resignation as posted to Twitter - Joe Kent - Wikipedia

In a real quagmire here, it is a mess now that it is on and finishing Iran seems only logical move, but the cost is going to be too high for little return.


The operation has lasted less than a month so far. It may be a little early to characterize it as being a "real quagmire."

Do you know which war he lost his wife in? I am wondering whether he blames Israel for us removing Saddam from Kuwait or for removing Saddam from Baghdad, or maybe it was some other war he attributes to Israel? Perhaps Afghanistan?

Trump has never done diplomacy properly.


You still support the decision to remove Saddam?

Easily the most counter-productive and destructive move by any President in my lifetime.

It did nothing to benefit America. It did, however, benefit Israel as they thrive on chaos and instability.

Yes. Saddam had to go.

He already had Chem/Bio weapons and was pursuing nuclear weapons while engaging in state sponsored terrorism (for decades) and engaging in liaison with Al Qaeda. Not one keystroke of that sentence is debatable. All of it seamlessly documented in intelligence and open source reporting. Bad. Actor.

The problem was not the policy to take out Saddam.
The problem was what to do about Iraq after Saddam was gone. We botched that hugely.

All indications on our Iran policy is that we are going to stand off and reduce the regime to rubble and let the people rise up & sort out the rebuilding themselves. That is the correct policy. We do not need to invade Iran and try to remake it as a western democracy. We just need to destroy the nuke program and have a stable regime that doesn't A) chant Death To America all-day/every-day and B) doesn't support terrorist groups who chant Death To America all-day/every-day.

It's not the use of our military to coerce better behavior from rogue regimes that gets us into trouble.
It's the nation-building that gets us into trouble.
Every. Time.

So just stop the nation-building.
(and ignore the idiotic isolationist babble. You cannot reason someone out of a position they did not reason themselves into.)




Other than killing all current regime leaders, how do we help the rebels? I would suppose IDF is arming them somehow.

Here's your sign: Israeli drones are striking Basij checkpoints. That is de facto air support for insurgency.

Because we have air supremacy over Iranian territory, we can loiter conventional aircraft (non-stealth) anywhere in Iran 24/7. We will play whack-a-mole for a few more weeks, striking every police and Basij and military effort at crowd control. That will not just attrit those forces. it will undermine their combat effectiveness. Personnel (who are not getting paid at this time) are going to quit showing up at all. There are already indicators that such dynamics are well underway.

That is the plan. Own the skies and suppress regime security response to the point that it cannot quell civil uprising. It's not one we've tried before. Frankly, it's not one that would have worked before. But new technologies have made it possible. It will be very hard for the regime to survive this. Just keep at it......


What's the plan to pay off the national debt?

Is Greater Israel going to pay it off for us?

Ha! Oh, now you care about that?! Classic!
Doc Holliday
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william
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The Penetrator

- UF

pro ecclesia, pro javelina
boognish_bear
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The_barBEARian
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It was only a matter of time before Joe Kent's resignation letter became antisemtitic....



KaiBear
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boognish_bear said:




Sounds like sabotage.

Morale on carriers is often shakey due to long deployments , crowded conditions and the Navy's habit of dumping their malcontents on board.
KaiBear
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Sam Lowry said:

KaiBear said:

ATL Bear said:

KaiBear said:

ATL Bear said:

KaiBear said:

BearFan33 said:

Kent did this correctly. If your boss is going in directions you can't support and won't listen to your advice, you resign. You don't resist and undermine like the embedded democrats do.

He's setting himself up for some good talk show money if he choses to go that route.

The conflict drags on. Trump desperately needs oil flow to continue through the straight for political reasons. I'm wondering why we don't escort ships through. I suspect it's currently too risky for our very expensive naval ships. Even if Japan was to mobilize their navy (which is probably modest) how long would it take to get there?

Iran is like if we are going down, we are going to make everyone feel the pain. Is droning the Gulf countries igoing to backfire? We will see.

This is going to really strain relations within NATO and the Ukraine war. Next time Ukraine comes with its hand out, I suspect Trump is going to send them to Europe and rightfully so.


The US economy has its own oil reserves.

Japan, India , China and most of Europe are the ones that need access through the Straits the most.

Past time to bomb Iranian oil facilities.

It's the obvious target.



Squeezing out Iranian supply squeezes everyone's supply, and thus price inflation.

Good grief......it s real ****ing war we are dealing with.

The goal is regime change otherwise these mullah's are going to just keep up their crap.

Bomb the Iranian oil fields and the locals will demand a new government when they begin to go hungry.

Really think the United States gave a **** about price inflaction when we were sinking the huge Japanese oil tanker fleet ?



When the boots hit the ground is when the war becomes really real. Perhaps understanding it isn't oil keeping them in power would be a good perspective for you. This is a nation that has spent decades under economic hardship. They are beholden to an ideology, and our Israeli bilateral war with them confirms to many their Friday prayer chants. You'd serve the purpose of regime change more by carpet bombing Tehran and Qom than taking out oil facilities. There's no appetite for such brutality, so if you just want to aggravate the global economic situation thus putting more pressure on the US to pull out, then sure, take out their oil infrastructure.


The goal is regime change.

Thankfully Israel is killing an unprecedented number of Iranian political and military leaders. The US has destroyed the Iranians air force and navy.

If this does not produce regime change immediately…..time to increase the pressure.

Privation of an enemies population always works.

Fire bombing civilian populations.
Unrestricted submarine warfare
Naval blockades.

The US has a long history of applying such tactics…. because they work. Destruction of Iranian oil facilities will shock the entire Iranian population and make them realize they have lost the war and regime change is necessary.

By the way……war is always brutal……the lack of a draft has insulated 90% of Americans from that bloody reality.

Such tactics almost never work and usually have the opposite effect. That's one reason the US now has a long history of losing wars.


The US has a long history of winning wars……dumbass.

Although the US does have a habit of ****ing up the following peace terms.
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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BearBall
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boognish_bear said:



Then we should bomb their arses too.
boognish_bear
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KaiBear
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BearBall said:

boognish_bear said:



Then we should bomb their arses too.


Worse

Leave NATO and make them pay for their own damn defense.
KaiBear
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boognish_bear said:




Saudis are terrified of Irans huge population advantage.

Doubt they respond in kind.
The_barBEARian
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BearBall said:

boognish_bear said:



Then we should bomb their arses too.


Which other countries should we bomb for Israel?
Realitybites
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boognish_bear said:



Latest "official" report on this is that it was a "laundry fire" and destroyed the bunks of around 600 crew.

The Ford is withdrawing to Cyprus.
KaiBear
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Realitybites said:

boognish_bear said:



Latest "official" report on this is that it was a "laundry fire" and destroyed the bunks of around 600 crew.

The Ford is withdrawing to Cyprus.


If untrue the real story will be leaked the minute the crew gets liberty in Cyprus.

So I suspect the laundry explanation is correct.

Guarantee intentional sabotage by one of the crew will be investigated.
Osodecentx
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KaiBear said:

Realitybites said:

boognish_bear said:



Latest "official" report on this is that it was a "laundry fire" and destroyed the bunks of around 600 crew.

The Ford is withdrawing to Cyprus.


So I suspect the laundry explanation is correct.

Guarantee intentional sabotage by one of the crew will be investigated.


Why? On what do you base your suspicions?
303Bear
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BearBall said:

boognish_bear said:



Then we should bomb their arses too.

Yes, god forbid a sovereign nation not allow us to use their air space for a "war" (special military operation?) they are not a part of...

Do you actually hear yourself?
D. C. Bear
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Any time there is an event like that it seems reasonable to expect an investigation.
303Bear
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Osodecentx said:

KaiBear said:

Realitybites said:

boognish_bear said:



Latest "official" report on this is that it was a "laundry fire" and destroyed the bunks of around 600 crew.

The Ford is withdrawing to Cyprus.


So I suspect the laundry explanation is correct.

Guarantee intentional sabotage by one of the crew will be investigated.


Why? On what do you base your suspicions?

Because sabotage is way less embarrassing than our newest carrier catching fire due to a dryer fire.
boognish_bear
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Realitybites
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boognish_bear said:



It's going to be a cold winter in Europe.

I hope the climate alarmists haven't destroyed all the wood stoves up there.
Realitybites
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Wednesday Evening Update:

Summary
  • Israel strikes Iran Navy in Caspian Sea. Iran FM Discusses Strait of Hormuz with EU's Kallas, oil dumps, amid reports of Iran launches on KSA. Largest Qatar LNG export hub hit by Iranian missiles. Doha expels diplomats.
  • Some Gulf states want to ensure Iran's missile arsenal destroyed for good, as EU, Russia, China demand ceasefire; Beijing ignores Trump's Hormuz plea
  • Israel says Iran's intelligence chief Esmail Khatib was eliminated overnight as pace of top leadership killings accelerates.
  • Iran says upstream oil and gas assets are under attack for first time since war began, readies retaliatory action against oil/gas assets in Gulf area, including Qatar, Saudi Arabia, & UAE; Iraq reroutes some flows through Ceyhan Pipeline to Turkey
  • Iran reiterates new rules in place for Hormuz transit as traffic remains de-minimus, sparking reports that "the blockade is now the worst disruption to oil flows ever..."
  • Trump Waives Jones Act to "mitigate the short-term disruptions to the oil market"; VP Vance will meet with Big Oil Execs on Thursday to discuss plan to combat surging gas prices at the pump
Osodecentx
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D. C. Bear said:

Any time there is an event like that it seems reasonable to expect an investigation.


An investigation is appropriate
He implied specific knowledge by saying:

"So I suspect the laundry explanation is correct."
KaiBear
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Osodecentx said:

KaiBear said:

Realitybites said:

boognish_bear said:



Latest "official" report on this is that it was a "laundry fire" and destroyed the bunks of around 600 crew.

The Ford is withdrawing to Cyprus.


So I suspect the laundry explanation is correct.

Guarantee intentional sabotage by one of the crew will be investigated.


Why? On what do you base your suspicions?

A. Extremely long deployment hurts crew morale.
B. There were previous reports of toilets on the ship being intentionally damaged.
C. Duty in the laundry room is one of the worst jobs on a carrier. Often reserved for sailors with lower IQ's and / or bad attitudes.


In any case watch the captain of the ship get removed within a month.
GrowlTowel
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The_barBEARian said:

BearBall said:

boognish_bear said:



Then we should bomb their arses too.


Which other countries should we bomb for Israel?


Wait, when did this happen the first time?
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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whiterock
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boognish_bear said:




We have a $50/bbl advantage in cost of oil.

We're about to take control of Kharg Island, and are in strong alliance with Persian Gukf arab states.

Admin is playing a very strong game.

whiterock
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BellCountyBear said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

BearFan33 said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

D. C. Bear said:

FLBear5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:




Yeah, I would say. Some idiots think these guys know and do nothing. Guy just dedicated his life to working on protecting American since 9/11. His resignation letter is linked below. You may not agree with all his politics, I don't, but he knows war and intel.

It amazes me that otherwise intelligent people believe that all Government employees do nothing of value.



Joe Kent resignation as posted to Twitter - Joe Kent - Wikipedia

In a real quagmire here, it is a mess now that it is on and finishing Iran seems only logical move, but the cost is going to be too high for little return.


The operation has lasted less than a month so far. It may be a little early to characterize it as being a "real quagmire."

Do you know which war he lost his wife in? I am wondering whether he blames Israel for us removing Saddam from Kuwait or for removing Saddam from Baghdad, or maybe it was some other war he attributes to Israel? Perhaps Afghanistan?

Trump has never done diplomacy properly.


You still support the decision to remove Saddam?

Easily the most counter-productive and destructive move by any President in my lifetime.

It did nothing to benefit America. It did, however, benefit Israel as they thrive on chaos and instability.

Yes. Saddam had to go.

He already had Chem/Bio weapons and was pursuing nuclear weapons while engaging in state sponsored terrorism (for decades) and engaging in liaison with Al Qaeda. Not one keystroke of that sentence is debatable. All of it seamlessly documented in intelligence and open source reporting. Bad. Actor.

The problem was not the policy to take out Saddam.
The problem was what to do about Iraq after Saddam was gone. We botched that hugely.

All indications on our Iran policy is that we are going to stand off and reduce the regime to rubble and let the people rise up & sort out the rebuilding themselves. That is the correct policy. We do not need to invade Iran and try to remake it as a western democracy. We just need to destroy the nuke program and have a stable regime that doesn't A) chant Death To America all-day/every-day and B) doesn't support terrorist groups who chant Death To America all-day/every-day.

It's not the use of our military to coerce better behavior from rogue regimes that gets us into trouble.
It's the nation-building that gets us into trouble.
Every. Time.

So just stop the nation-building.
(and ignore the idiotic isolationist babble. You cannot reason someone out of a position they did not reason themselves into.)




Other than killing all current regime leaders, how do we help the rebels? I would suppose IDF is arming them somehow.

Here's your sign: Israeli drones are striking Basij checkpoints. That is de facto air support for insurgency.

Because we have air supremacy over Iranian territory, we can loiter conventional aircraft (non-stealth) anywhere in Iran 24/7. We will play whack-a-mole for a few more weeks, striking every police and Basij and military effort at crowd control. That will not just attrit those forces. it will undermine their combat effectiveness. Personnel (who are not getting paid at this time) are going to quit showing up at all. There are already indicators that such dynamics are well underway.

That is the plan. Own the skies and suppress regime security response to the point that it cannot quell civil uprising. It's not one we've tried before. Frankly, it's not one that would have worked before. But new technologies have made it possible. It will be very hard for the regime to survive this. Just keep at it......


What's the plan to pay off the national debt?

Is Greater Israel going to pay it off for us?

Ha! Oh, now you care about that?! Classic!

His plan to pay off the national debt is to retreat to fortress America and let Russia, China, Iran run amok because that could not possibly cause is harm.
whiterock
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First they cut off the regime paychecks.


Then they started targeting tactical operations of regime security.


Now, they're giving final demands - "step away from your positions or else…"
Realitybites
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Iran strikes Israel with massive missile attack, Gulf energy on fire, oil price hits $110

Iran has intensified its strikes on Israel, firing missiles toward Tel Aviv and Ben Gurion Airport. The attacks come in response to the killing of Iranian Intelligence Minister Esmail Khatib, top security official Ali Larijani, and Brigadier General Gholamreza Soleimani, the commander of the Basij paramilitary force.

It is rare to get video out of Israel given that regime's blackout on news, so you take what you can get.

Looks like the airport is getting hit pretty hard.

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