Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Awesome. Let's stop giving billions to their corrupt oligarchy. It clearly does not need it. Cut off all aid now.

---

This. If they're so badass, why do they need our help?

---

Because they were invaded by a world power 4 times its size and a military 10X bigger that is supported by China, Iran, and North Korea.

And, yes, Ukrainians have proven to be MF-ing bad asses.

---

If you could only choose one expensive, frivolous counter-productive foreign war to destroy the US economy over... which would you choose - Ukraine War or Iran War?

---

I obviously disagree with the lead up, but I opposed the Iran war and support helping Ukraine. It is not expensive nor counterproductive. It's a tiny fraction of 1% of our spending, and we're helping the greatest freedom fighters since WW2.

---

We are literally helping the people we fought against in WW2.

---

Good thing we never helped post-war Germany or Japan, isn't it?

---

We helped purge Germany of the Nazi affliction. Now we're giving medals to former Waffen-SS troops. As the son of a WW2 vet, it's one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.

---

Lacks documentation. Please provide it, including names. Thanks in advance. Also, give us the average age of said former Waffen-SS troops and why we're giving them medals at that age.

---

https://www.google.com

---

I couldn't find anything. I tried.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Hunka_scandal

---

- Canada
- No medal
- Virtually nobody there knew his background and all disavowed following
- As I'm sure you know given your knowledge of the region, Ukrainians in that area who fought for Germany did so because Russia invaded and occupied them first. Their goal was to get rid of the Russians who terrorized them.

---

Their goal was to get rid of anyone they considered inferior, including Russians, Poles, and over a million Jews. While he may have been disavowed after public shaming, he represents exactly the kind of racist nationalism that we've supported in Ukraine ever since the end of the war.

---

You're way further adrift in Putin land than I thought . . . .

Racist nationalism in Ukraine?

Do you somehow deny Russia invaded Ukraine and terrorized Ukrainians before the Germans?

And unlike Russia, Ukraine has never stated that Russia and Russians don't really exist, Ukraine has never invaded Russia or threatened to. Ukraine has not stolen Russian children. Ukraine is not murdering Russian civilians. Ukraine has not tried to change Russian textbooks. Ukraine has not allied with North Korea, Iran, and China. Ukraine does not harass or kill Evangelicals and Catholics. Ukraine does not control its Orthodox church and the church is not led by spies. And on and on and on.

---

You're adrift in propaganda. Ukraine has done most of those things and more.

---

Please provide examples with support

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Awesome. Let's stop giving billions to their corrupt oligarchy. It clearly does not need it. Cut off all aid now.

---

This. If they're so badass, why do they need our help?

---

Because they were invaded by a world power 4 times its size and a military 10X bigger that is supported by China, Iran, and North Korea.

And, yes, Ukrainians have proven to be MF-ing bad asses.

---

If you could only choose one expensive, frivolous counter-productive foreign war to destroy the US economy over... which would you choose - Ukraine War or Iran War?

---

I obviously disagree with the lead up, but I opposed the Iran war and support helping Ukraine. It is not expensive nor counterproductive. It's a tiny fraction of 1% of our spending, and we're helping the greatest freedom fighters since WW2.

---

We are literally helping the people we fought against in WW2.

---

Good thing we never helped post-war Germany or Japan, isn't it?

---

We helped purge Germany of the Nazi affliction. Now we're giving medals to former Waffen-SS troops. As the son of a WW2 vet, it's one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.

---

Lacks documentation. Please provide it, including names. Thanks in advance. Also, give us the average age of said former Waffen-SS troops and why we're giving them medals at that age.

---

https://www.google.com

---

I couldn't find anything. I tried.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Hunka_scandal

---

- Canada
- No medal
- Virtually nobody there knew his background and all disavowed following
- As I'm sure you know given your knowledge of the region, Ukrainians in that area who fought for Germany did so because Russia invaded and occupied them first. Their goal was to get rid of the Russians who terrorized them.

---

Their goal was to get rid of anyone they considered inferior, including Russians, Poles, and over a million Jews. While he may have been disavowed after public shaming, he represents exactly the kind of racist nationalism that we've supported in Ukraine ever since the end of the war.

---

You're way further adrift in Putin land than I thought . . . .

Racist nationalism in Ukraine?

Do you somehow deny Russia invaded Ukraine and terrorized Ukrainians before the Germans?

And unlike Russia, Ukraine has never stated that Russia and Russians don't really exist, Ukraine has never invaded Russia or threatened to. Ukraine has not stolen Russian children. Ukraine is not murdering Russian civilians. Ukraine has not tried to change Russian textbooks. Ukraine has not allied with North Korea, Iran, and China. Ukraine does not harass or kill Evangelicals and Catholics. Ukraine does not control its Orthodox church and the church is not led by spies. And on and on and on.

---

You're adrift in propaganda. Ukraine has done most of those things and more.

---

Please provide examples with support

---

Have done many times, including examples of church burnings, OCU ties to Western spy agencies, targeting of civilians in rocket attacks, US support of ultra-right militias, etc.

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Awesome. Let's stop giving billions to their corrupt oligarchy. It clearly does not need it. Cut off all aid now.

---

This. If they're so badass, why do they need our help?

---

Because they were invaded by a world power 4 times its size and a military 10X bigger that is supported by China, Iran, and North Korea.

And, yes, Ukrainians have proven to be MF-ing bad asses.

---

If you could only choose one expensive, frivolous counter-productive foreign war to destroy the US economy over... which would you choose - Ukraine War or Iran War?

---

I obviously disagree with the lead up, but I opposed the Iran war and support helping Ukraine. It is not expensive nor counterproductive. It's a tiny fraction of 1% of our spending, and we're helping the greatest freedom fighters since WW2.

---

We are literally helping the people we fought against in WW2.

---

Good thing we never helped post-war Germany or Japan, isn't it?

---

We helped purge Germany of the Nazi affliction. Now we're giving medals to former Waffen-SS troops. As the son of a WW2 vet, it's one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.

---

Lacks documentation. Please provide it, including names. Thanks in advance. Also, give us the average age of said former Waffen-SS troops and why we're giving them medals at that age.

---

https://www.google.com

---

I couldn't find anything. I tried.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Hunka_scandal

---

- Canada
- No medal
- Virtually nobody there knew his background and all disavowed following
- As I'm sure you know given your knowledge of the region, Ukrainians in that area who fought for Germany did so because Russia invaded and occupied them first. Their goal was to get rid of the Russians who terrorized them.

---

Their goal was to get rid of anyone they considered inferior, including Russians, Poles, and over a million Jews. While he may have been disavowed after public shaming, he represents exactly the kind of racist nationalism that we've supported in Ukraine ever since the end of the war.

---

You're way further adrift in Putin land than I thought . . . .

Racist nationalism in Ukraine?

Do you somehow deny Russia invaded Ukraine and terrorized Ukrainians before the Germans?

And unlike Russia, Ukraine has never stated that Russia and Russians don't really exist, Ukraine has never invaded Russia or threatened to. Ukraine has not stolen Russian children. Ukraine is not murdering Russian civilians. Ukraine has not tried to change Russian textbooks. Ukraine has not allied with North Korea, Iran, and China. Ukraine does not harass or kill Evangelicals and Catholics. Ukraine does not control its Orthodox church and the church is not led by spies. And on and on and on.

---

You're adrift in propaganda. Ukraine has done most of those things and more.

---

As with the blind support of Israel, Boomers have been soaked in anti-Russian propaganda for so long there is no changing their minds. It will require a generational reset.

---

I'm not a boomer, my wife and her family are Russian, I've been to and done business in Russia, I've been to Ukraine, and my disdain for Russia is based on what I know and have seen and not what anyone else has told me. Putin is one of our two main adversaries. He tries to undermine us all over the world and his closest friends are our primary enemies. Russia is a poverty stricken police state, with an economy controlled by nepotists, oligarchs, and the mob. Putin kills political opponents, jails citizens for speech and expression, and harasses Evangelicals, Protestants, and Catholics. It is one of the least Christian European nations with among the highest rates of abortion, STDs, divorce, and booming and brutal underground prostitution industry. Putin took over the Orthodox Church and dictates its every move. And, yes, Putin invaded and terrorized a free sovereign neighbor that is one of the most Christian countries in the world.

---

Given the sweep of its history, I understand why Russia would want "buffer zones." More recent history, however, strongly suggests that "buffer zones" is Russian for "puppet states." Among the many problems with becoming a puppet state is that there is no opt-out clause. So while neither Ukraine nor Russia is pristine, the Ukranian case is the better one as far as protecting people's basic human rights. It is not really close.

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Awesome. Let's stop giving billions to their corrupt oligarchy. It clearly does not need it. Cut off all aid now.

---

This. If they're so badass, why do they need our help?

---

Because they were invaded by a world power 4 times its size and a military 10X bigger that is supported by China, Iran, and North Korea.

And, yes, Ukrainians have proven to be MF-ing bad asses.

---

If you could only choose one expensive, frivolous counter-productive foreign war to destroy the US economy over... which would you choose - Ukraine War or Iran War?

---

I obviously disagree with the lead up, but I opposed the Iran war and support helping Ukraine. It is not expensive nor counterproductive. It's a tiny fraction of 1% of our spending, and we're helping the greatest freedom fighters since WW2.

---

We are literally helping the people we fought against in WW2.

---

Good thing we never helped post-war Germany or Japan, isn't it?

---

We helped purge Germany of the Nazi affliction. Now we're giving medals to former Waffen-SS troops. As the son of a WW2 vet, it's one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.

---

Lacks documentation. Please provide it, including names. Thanks in advance. Also, give us the average age of said former Waffen-SS troops and why we're giving them medals at that age.

---

https://www.google.com

---

I couldn't find anything. I tried.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Hunka_scandal

---

- Canada
- No medal
- Virtually nobody there knew his background and all disavowed following
- As I'm sure you know given your knowledge of the region, Ukrainians in that area who fought for Germany did so because Russia invaded and occupied them first. Their goal was to get rid of the Russians who terrorized them.

---

Their goal was to get rid of anyone they considered inferior, including Russians, Poles, and over a million Jews. While he may have been disavowed after public shaming, he represents exactly the kind of racist nationalism that we've supported in Ukraine ever since the end of the war.

---

You're way further adrift in Putin land than I thought . . . .

Racist nationalism in Ukraine?

Do you somehow deny Russia invaded Ukraine and terrorized Ukrainians before the Germans?

And unlike Russia, Ukraine has never stated that Russia and Russians don't really exist, Ukraine has never invaded Russia or threatened to. Ukraine has not stolen Russian children. Ukraine is not murdering Russian civilians. Ukraine has not tried to change Russian textbooks. Ukraine has not allied with North Korea, Iran, and China. Ukraine does not harass or kill Evangelicals and Catholics. Ukraine does not control its Orthodox church and the church is not led by spies. And on and on and on.

---

You're adrift in propaganda. Ukraine has done most of those things and more.

---

As with the blind support of Israel, Boomers have been soaked in anti-Russian propaganda for so long there is no changing their minds. It will require a generational reset.

---

I'm not a boomer, my wife and her family are Russian, I've been to and done business in Russia, I've been to Ukraine, and my disdain for Russia is based on what I know and have seen and not what anyone else has told me. Putin is one of our two main adversaries. He tries to undermine us all over the world and his closest friends are our primary enemies. Russia is a poverty stricken police state, with an economy controlled by nepotists, oligarchs, and the mob. Putin kills political opponents, jails citizens for speech and expression, and harasses Evangelicals, Protestants, and Catholics. It is one of the least Christian European nations with among the highest rates of abortion, STDs, divorce, and booming and brutal underground prostitution industry. Putin took over the Orthodox Church and dictates its every move. And, yes, Putin invaded and terrorized a free sovereign neighbor that is one of the most Christian countries in the world.

---

Well I guess we arent so different after all...

I'm not on board with everything Russia does but the hate is egregious... especially when compared with the double standard and carte blanche Israel receives with regard to invading their neighbors and totally taking over Gaza and the West Bank.

Frank Galvin said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Awesome. Let's stop giving billions to their corrupt oligarchy. It clearly does not need it. Cut off all aid now.

---

This. If they're so badass, why do they need our help?

---

Because they were invaded by a world power 4 times its size and a military 10X bigger that is supported by China, Iran, and North Korea.

And, yes, Ukrainians have proven to be MF-ing bad asses.

---

If you could only choose one expensive, frivolous counter-productive foreign war to destroy the US economy over... which would you choose - Ukraine War or Iran War?

---

I obviously disagree with the lead up, but I opposed the Iran war and support helping Ukraine. It is not expensive nor counterproductive. It's a tiny fraction of 1% of our spending, and we're helping the greatest freedom fighters since WW2.

---

We are literally helping the people we fought against in WW2.

---

Good thing we never helped post-war Germany or Japan, isn't it?

---

We helped purge Germany of the Nazi affliction. Now we're giving medals to former Waffen-SS troops. As the son of a WW2 vet, it's one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.

---

Lacks documentation. Please provide it, including names. Thanks in advance. Also, give us the average age of said former Waffen-SS troops and why we're giving them medals at that age.

---

https://www.google.com

---

I couldn't find anything. I tried.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Hunka_scandal

---

- Canada
- No medal
- Virtually nobody there knew his background and all disavowed following
- As I'm sure you know given your knowledge of the region, Ukrainians in that area who fought for Germany did so because Russia invaded and occupied them first. Their goal was to get rid of the Russians who terrorized them.

---

Their goal was to get rid of anyone they considered inferior, including Russians, Poles, and over a million Jews. While he may have been disavowed after public shaming, he represents exactly the kind of racist nationalism that we've supported in Ukraine ever since the end of the war.

---

You're way further adrift in Putin land than I thought . . . .

Racist nationalism in Ukraine?

Do you somehow deny Russia invaded Ukraine and terrorized Ukrainians before the Germans?

And unlike Russia, Ukraine has never stated that Russia and Russians don't really exist, Ukraine has never invaded Russia or threatened to. Ukraine has not stolen Russian children. Ukraine is not murdering Russian civilians. Ukraine has not tried to change Russian textbooks. Ukraine has not allied with North Korea, Iran, and China. Ukraine does not harass or kill Evangelicals and Catholics. Ukraine does not control its Orthodox church and the church is not led by spies. And on and on and on.

---

You're adrift in propaganda. Ukraine has done most of those things and more.

---

As with the blind support of Israel, Boomers have been soaked in anti-Russian propaganda for so long there is no changing their minds. It will require a generational reset.

---

I'm not a boomer, my wife and her family are Russian, I've been to and done business in Russia, I've been to Ukraine, and my disdain for Russia is based on what I know and have seen and not what anyone else has told me. Putin is one of our two main adversaries. He tries to undermine us all over the world and his closest friends are our primary enemies. Russia is a poverty stricken police state, with an economy controlled by nepotists, oligarchs, and the mob. Putin kills political opponents, jails citizens for speech and expression, and harasses Evangelicals, Protestants, and Catholics. It is one of the least Christian European nations with among the highest rates of abortion, STDs, divorce, and booming and brutal underground prostitution industry. Putin took over the Orthodox Church and dictates its every move. And, yes, Putin invaded and terrorized a free sovereign neighbor that is one of the most Christian countries in the world.

---

Given the sweep of its history, I understand why Russia would want "buffer zones." More recent history, however, strongly suggests that "buffer zones" is Russian for "puppet states." Among the many problems with becoming a puppet state is that there is no opt-out clause. So while neither Ukraine nor Russia is pristine, the Ukranian case is the better one as far as protecting people's basic human rights. It is not really close.

---

Recent history strongly suggests the opposite. Everyone was content with Ukrainian neutrality until the West intervened (and neutrality is all that Russia demanded even then).

The_barBEARian said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Awesome. Let's stop giving billions to their corrupt oligarchy. It clearly does not need it. Cut off all aid now.

---

This. If they're so badass, why do they need our help?

---

Because they were invaded by a world power 4 times its size and a military 10X bigger that is supported by China, Iran, and North Korea.

And, yes, Ukrainians have proven to be MF-ing bad asses.

---

If you could only choose one expensive, frivolous counter-productive foreign war to destroy the US economy over... which would you choose - Ukraine War or Iran War?

---

I obviously disagree with the lead up, but I opposed the Iran war and support helping Ukraine. It is not expensive nor counterproductive. It's a tiny fraction of 1% of our spending, and we're helping the greatest freedom fighters since WW2.

---

We are literally helping the people we fought against in WW2.

---

Good thing we never helped post-war Germany or Japan, isn't it?

---

We helped purge Germany of the Nazi affliction. Now we're giving medals to former Waffen-SS troops. As the son of a WW2 vet, it's one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.

---

Lacks documentation. Please provide it, including names. Thanks in advance. Also, give us the average age of said former Waffen-SS troops and why we're giving them medals at that age.

---

https://www.google.com

---

I couldn't find anything. I tried.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Hunka_scandal

---

- Canada
- No medal
- Virtually nobody there knew his background and all disavowed following
- As I'm sure you know given your knowledge of the region, Ukrainians in that area who fought for Germany did so because Russia invaded and occupied them first. Their goal was to get rid of the Russians who terrorized them.

---

Their goal was to get rid of anyone they considered inferior, including Russians, Poles, and over a million Jews. While he may have been disavowed after public shaming, he represents exactly the kind of racist nationalism that we've supported in Ukraine ever since the end of the war.

---

You're way further adrift in Putin land than I thought . . . .

Racist nationalism in Ukraine?

Do you somehow deny Russia invaded Ukraine and terrorized Ukrainians before the Germans?

And unlike Russia, Ukraine has never stated that Russia and Russians don't really exist, Ukraine has never invaded Russia or threatened to. Ukraine has not stolen Russian children. Ukraine is not murdering Russian civilians. Ukraine has not tried to change Russian textbooks. Ukraine has not allied with North Korea, Iran, and China. Ukraine does not harass or kill Evangelicals and Catholics. Ukraine does not control its Orthodox church and the church is not led by spies. And on and on and on.

---

You're adrift in propaganda. Ukraine has done most of those things and more.

---

As with the blind support of Israel, Boomers have been soaked in anti-Russian propaganda for so long there is no changing their minds. It will require a generational reset.

---

Sorry to inform you but Russia is not our friend.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Awesome. Let's stop giving billions to their corrupt oligarchy. It clearly does not need it. Cut off all aid now.

---

This. If they're so badass, why do they need our help?

---

Because they were invaded by a world power 4 times its size and a military 10X bigger that is supported by China, Iran, and North Korea.

And, yes, Ukrainians have proven to be MF-ing bad asses.

---

If you could only choose one expensive, frivolous counter-productive foreign war to destroy the US economy over... which would you choose - Ukraine War or Iran War?

---

I obviously disagree with the lead up, but I opposed the Iran war and support helping Ukraine. It is not expensive nor counterproductive. It's a tiny fraction of 1% of our spending, and we're helping the greatest freedom fighters since WW2.

---

We are literally helping the people we fought against in WW2.

---

Good thing we never helped post-war Germany or Japan, isn't it?

---

We helped purge Germany of the Nazi affliction. Now we're giving medals to former Waffen-SS troops. As the son of a WW2 vet, it's one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.

---

Lacks documentation. Please provide it, including names. Thanks in advance. Also, give us the average age of said former Waffen-SS troops and why we're giving them medals at that age.

---

https://www.google.com

---

I couldn't find anything. I tried.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Hunka_scandal

---

- Canada
- No medal
- Virtually nobody there knew his background and all disavowed following
- As I'm sure you know given your knowledge of the region, Ukrainians in that area who fought for Germany did so because Russia invaded and occupied them first. Their goal was to get rid of the Russians who terrorized them.

---

Their goal was to get rid of anyone they considered inferior, including Russians, Poles, and over a million Jews. While he may have been disavowed after public shaming, he represents exactly the kind of racist nationalism that we've supported in Ukraine ever since the end of the war.

---

You're way further adrift in Putin land than I thought . . . .

Racist nationalism in Ukraine?

Do you somehow deny Russia invaded Ukraine and terrorized Ukrainians before the Germans?

And unlike Russia, Ukraine has never stated that Russia and Russians don't really exist, Ukraine has never invaded Russia or threatened to. Ukraine has not stolen Russian children. Ukraine is not murdering Russian civilians. Ukraine has not tried to change Russian textbooks. Ukraine has not allied with North Korea, Iran, and China. Ukraine does not harass or kill Evangelicals and Catholics. Ukraine does not control its Orthodox church and the church is not led by spies. And on and on and on.

---

You're adrift in propaganda. Ukraine has done most of those things and more.

---

As with the blind support of Israel, Boomers have been soaked in anti-Russian propaganda for so long there is no changing their minds. It will require a generational reset.

---

I'm not a boomer, my wife and her family are Russian, I've been to and done business in Russia, I've been to Ukraine, and my disdain for Russia is based on what I know and have seen and not what anyone else has told me. Putin is one of our two main adversaries. He tries to undermine us all over the world and his closest friends are our primary enemies. Russia is a poverty stricken police state, with an economy controlled by nepotists, oligarchs, and the mob. Putin kills political opponents, jails citizens for speech and expression, and harasses Evangelicals, Protestants, and Catholics. It is one of the least Christian European nations with among the highest rates of abortion, STDs, divorce, and booming and brutal underground prostitution industry. Putin took over the Orthodox Church and dictates its every move. And, yes, Putin invaded and terrorized a free sovereign neighbor that is one of the most Christian countries in the world.

---

Given the sweep of its history, I understand why Russia would want "buffer zones." More recent history, however, strongly suggests that "buffer zones" is Russian for "puppet states." Among the many problems with becoming a puppet state is that there is no opt-out clause. So while neither Ukraine nor Russia is pristine, the Ukranian case is the better one as far as protecting people's basic human rights. It is not really close.

---

Recent history strongly suggests the opposite. Everyone was content with Ukrainian neutrality until the West intervened (and neutrality is all that Russia demanded even then).

---

I consider 1950-1990 recent. Also, all Hitler wanted from Poland was neutrality. Until he didn't. The West is imperfect, yes. But I would rather live in the West than in a state and economy controlled in Moscow. Pretty difficult to see how people who have experienced both would choose Moscow.

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Awesome. Let's stop giving billions to their corrupt oligarchy. It clearly does not need it. Cut off all aid now.

---

This. If they're so badass, why do they need our help?

---

Because they were invaded by a world power 4 times its size and a military 10X bigger that is supported by China, Iran, and North Korea.

And, yes, Ukrainians have proven to be MF-ing bad asses.

---

If you could only choose one expensive, frivolous counter-productive foreign war to destroy the US economy over... which would you choose - Ukraine War or Iran War?

---

I obviously disagree with the lead up, but I opposed the Iran war and support helping Ukraine. It is not expensive nor counterproductive. It's a tiny fraction of 1% of our spending, and we're helping the greatest freedom fighters since WW2.

---

We are literally helping the people we fought against in WW2.

---

Good thing we never helped post-war Germany or Japan, isn't it?

---

We helped purge Germany of the Nazi affliction. Now we're giving medals to former Waffen-SS troops. As the son of a WW2 vet, it's one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.

---

Lacks documentation. Please provide it, including names. Thanks in advance. Also, give us the average age of said former Waffen-SS troops and why we're giving them medals at that age.

---

https://www.google.com

---

I couldn't find anything. I tried.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Hunka_scandal

---

- Canada
- No medal
- Virtually nobody there knew his background and all disavowed following
- As I'm sure you know given your knowledge of the region, Ukrainians in that area who fought for Germany did so because Russia invaded and occupied them first. Their goal was to get rid of the Russians who terrorized them.

---

Their goal was to get rid of anyone they considered inferior, including Russians, Poles, and over a million Jews. While he may have been disavowed after public shaming, he represents exactly the kind of racist nationalism that we've supported in Ukraine ever since the end of the war.

---

You're way further adrift in Putin land than I thought . . . .

Racist nationalism in Ukraine?

Do you somehow deny Russia invaded Ukraine and terrorized Ukrainians before the Germans?

And unlike Russia, Ukraine has never stated that Russia and Russians don't really exist, Ukraine has never invaded Russia or threatened to. Ukraine has not stolen Russian children. Ukraine is not murdering Russian civilians. Ukraine has not tried to change Russian textbooks. Ukraine has not allied with North Korea, Iran, and China. Ukraine does not harass or kill Evangelicals and Catholics. Ukraine does not control its Orthodox church and the church is not led by spies. And on and on and on.

---

You're adrift in propaganda. Ukraine has done most of those things and more.

---

As with the blind support of Israel, Boomers have been soaked in anti-Russian propaganda for so long there is no changing their minds. It will require a generational reset.

---

I'm not a boomer, my wife and her family are Russian, I've been to and done business in Russia, I've been to Ukraine, and my disdain for Russia is based on what I know and have seen and not what anyone else has told me. Putin is one of our two main adversaries. He tries to undermine us all over the world and his closest friends are our primary enemies. Russia is a poverty stricken police state, with an economy controlled by nepotists, oligarchs, and the mob. Putin kills political opponents, jails citizens for speech and expression, and harasses Evangelicals, Protestants, and Catholics. It is one of the least Christian European nations with among the highest rates of abortion, STDs, divorce, and booming and brutal underground prostitution industry. Putin took over the Orthodox Church and dictates its every move. And, yes, Putin invaded and terrorized a free sovereign neighbor that is one of the most Christian countries in the world.

---

Well I guess we arent so different after all...

I'm not on board with everything Russia does but the hate is egregious... especially when compared with the double standard and carte blanche Israel receives with regard to invading their neighbors and totally taking over Gaza and the West Bank.

---

Putin is an evil dictator. I hate evil and dictators. Nothing egregious about that.

I don't compare Israel and Russia. Israel has been attacked and invaded numerous times by its Muslim neighbors since its modern founding. They are alone surrounded by many countries that want them wiped off the map. Israel has the right to defend itself and protect its people. When they go too far, they should be held accountable. But they are on the right side of history.

Frank Galvin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Awesome. Let's stop giving billions to their corrupt oligarchy. It clearly does not need it. Cut off all aid now.

---

This. If they're so badass, why do they need our help?

---

Because they were invaded by a world power 4 times its size and a military 10X bigger that is supported by China, Iran, and North Korea.

And, yes, Ukrainians have proven to be MF-ing bad asses.

---

If you could only choose one expensive, frivolous counter-productive foreign war to destroy the US economy over... which would you choose - Ukraine War or Iran War?

---

I obviously disagree with the lead up, but I opposed the Iran war and support helping Ukraine. It is not expensive nor counterproductive. It's a tiny fraction of 1% of our spending, and we're helping the greatest freedom fighters since WW2.

---

We are literally helping the people we fought against in WW2.

---

Good thing we never helped post-war Germany or Japan, isn't it?

---

We helped purge Germany of the Nazi affliction. Now we're giving medals to former Waffen-SS troops. As the son of a WW2 vet, it's one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.

---

Lacks documentation. Please provide it, including names. Thanks in advance. Also, give us the average age of said former Waffen-SS troops and why we're giving them medals at that age.

---

https://www.google.com

---

I couldn't find anything. I tried.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Hunka_scandal

---

- Canada
- No medal
- Virtually nobody there knew his background and all disavowed following
- As I'm sure you know given your knowledge of the region, Ukrainians in that area who fought for Germany did so because Russia invaded and occupied them first. Their goal was to get rid of the Russians who terrorized them.

---

Their goal was to get rid of anyone they considered inferior, including Russians, Poles, and over a million Jews. While he may have been disavowed after public shaming, he represents exactly the kind of racist nationalism that we've supported in Ukraine ever since the end of the war.

---

You're way further adrift in Putin land than I thought . . . .

Racist nationalism in Ukraine?

Do you somehow deny Russia invaded Ukraine and terrorized Ukrainians before the Germans?

And unlike Russia, Ukraine has never stated that Russia and Russians don't really exist, Ukraine has never invaded Russia or threatened to. Ukraine has not stolen Russian children. Ukraine is not murdering Russian civilians. Ukraine has not tried to change Russian textbooks. Ukraine has not allied with North Korea, Iran, and China. Ukraine does not harass or kill Evangelicals and Catholics. Ukraine does not control its Orthodox church and the church is not led by spies. And on and on and on.

---

You're adrift in propaganda. Ukraine has done most of those things and more.

---

As with the blind support of Israel, Boomers have been soaked in anti-Russian propaganda for so long there is no changing their minds. It will require a generational reset.

---

I'm not a boomer, my wife and her family are Russian, I've been to and done business in Russia, I've been to Ukraine, and my disdain for Russia is based on what I know and have seen and not what anyone else has told me. Putin is one of our two main adversaries. He tries to undermine us all over the world and his closest friends are our primary enemies. Russia is a poverty stricken police state, with an economy controlled by nepotists, oligarchs, and the mob. Putin kills political opponents, jails citizens for speech and expression, and harasses Evangelicals, Protestants, and Catholics. It is one of the least Christian European nations with among the highest rates of abortion, STDs, divorce, and booming and brutal underground prostitution industry. Putin took over the Orthodox Church and dictates its every move. And, yes, Putin invaded and terrorized a free sovereign neighbor that is one of the most Christian countries in the world.

---

Given the sweep of its history, I understand why Russia would want "buffer zones." More recent history, however, strongly suggests that "buffer zones" is Russian for "puppet states." Among the many problems with becoming a puppet state is that there is no opt-out clause. So while neither Ukraine nor Russia is pristine, the Ukranian case is the better one as far as protecting people's basic human rights. It is not really close.

---

Recent history strongly suggests the opposite. Everyone was content with Ukrainian neutrality until the West intervened (and neutrality is all that Russia demanded even then).

---

I consider 1950-1990 recent. Also, all Hitler wanted from Poland was neutrality. Until he didn't. The West is imperfect, yes. But I would rather live in the West than in a state and economy controlled in Moscow. Pretty difficult to see how people who have experienced both would choose Moscow.

---

Ukrainians never saw it as a choice between Moscow and the West. That's a dilemma that we tried to force on them, and when they rejected it we made the choice for them.

Czar Putin. Russia changes its governmental style over the last 200 years, but not really, The police state is continuous. A shame.

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Czar Putin. Russia changes its governmental style over the last 200 years, but not really, The police state is continuous. A shame.

---

A narrative that completely contradicts what we heard during the Cold War, yet somehow leads to the same conclusion that hostilities with Russia are inevitable. Funny how that works.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Awesome. Let's stop giving billions to their corrupt oligarchy. It clearly does not need it. Cut off all aid now.

---

This. If they're so badass, why do they need our help?

---

Because they were invaded by a world power 4 times its size and a military 10X bigger that is supported by China, Iran, and North Korea.

And, yes, Ukrainians have proven to be MF-ing bad asses.

---

If you could only choose one expensive, frivolous counter-productive foreign war to destroy the US economy over... which would you choose - Ukraine War or Iran War?

---

I obviously disagree with the lead up, but I opposed the Iran war and support helping Ukraine. It is not expensive nor counterproductive. It's a tiny fraction of 1% of our spending, and we're helping the greatest freedom fighters since WW2.

---

We are literally helping the people we fought against in WW2.

---

Good thing we never helped post-war Germany or Japan, isn't it?

---

We helped purge Germany of the Nazi affliction. Now we're giving medals to former Waffen-SS troops. As the son of a WW2 vet, it's one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.

---

Lacks documentation. Please provide it, including names. Thanks in advance. Also, give us the average age of said former Waffen-SS troops and why we're giving them medals at that age.

---

https://www.google.com

---

I couldn't find anything. I tried.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Hunka_scandal

---

- Canada
- No medal
- Virtually nobody there knew his background and all disavowed following
- As I'm sure you know given your knowledge of the region, Ukrainians in that area who fought for Germany did so because Russia invaded and occupied them first. Their goal was to get rid of the Russians who terrorized them.

---

Their goal was to get rid of anyone they considered inferior, including Russians, Poles, and over a million Jews. While he may have been disavowed after public shaming, he represents exactly the kind of racist nationalism that we've supported in Ukraine ever since the end of the war.

---

You're way further adrift in Putin land than I thought . . . .

Racist nationalism in Ukraine?

Do you somehow deny Russia invaded Ukraine and terrorized Ukrainians before the Germans?

And unlike Russia, Ukraine has never stated that Russia and Russians don't really exist, Ukraine has never invaded Russia or threatened to. Ukraine has not stolen Russian children. Ukraine is not murdering Russian civilians. Ukraine has not tried to change Russian textbooks. Ukraine has not allied with North Korea, Iran, and China. Ukraine does not harass or kill Evangelicals and Catholics. Ukraine does not control its Orthodox church and the church is not led by spies. And on and on and on.

---

You're adrift in propaganda. Ukraine has done most of those things and more.

---

As with the blind support of Israel, Boomers have been soaked in anti-Russian propaganda for so long there is no changing their minds. It will require a generational reset.

---

I'm not a boomer, my wife and her family are Russian, I've been to and done business in Russia, I've been to Ukraine, and my disdain for Russia is based on what I know and have seen and not what anyone else has told me. Putin is one of our two main adversaries. He tries to undermine us all over the world and his closest friends are our primary enemies. Russia is a poverty stricken police state, with an economy controlled by nepotists, oligarchs, and the mob. Putin kills political opponents, jails citizens for speech and expression, and harasses Evangelicals, Protestants, and Catholics. It is one of the least Christian European nations with among the highest rates of abortion, STDs, divorce, and booming and brutal underground prostitution industry. Putin took over the Orthodox Church and dictates its every move. And, yes, Putin invaded and terrorized a free sovereign neighbor that is one of the most Christian countries in the world.

---

Given the sweep of its history, I understand why Russia would want "buffer zones." More recent history, however, strongly suggests that "buffer zones" is Russian for "puppet states." Among the many problems with becoming a puppet state is that there is no opt-out clause. So while neither Ukraine nor Russia is pristine, the Ukranian case is the better one as far as protecting people's basic human rights. It is not really close.

---

Recent history strongly suggests the opposite. Everyone was content with Ukrainian neutrality until the West intervened (and neutrality is all that Russia demanded even then).

---

I consider 1950-1990 recent. Also, all Hitler wanted from Poland was neutrality. Until he didn't. The West is imperfect, yes. But I would rather live in the West than in a state and economy controlled in Moscow. Pretty difficult to see how people who have experienced both would choose Moscow.

---

Ukrainians never saw it as a choice between Moscow and the West. That's a dilemma that we tried to force on them, and when they rejected it we made the choice for them.

---

What?! That's always what they've contemplated. And most of the time, they wanted good relations with both, including when the country overwhelmingly wanted the EU deal before Putin Jr. changed his mind.

They did want good relations with both. The EU deal fell through because the EU refused to negotiate.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

canoso said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

sombear said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Awesome. Let's stop giving billions to their corrupt oligarchy. It clearly does not need it. Cut off all aid now.

---

This. If they're so badass, why do they need our help?

---

Because they were invaded by a world power 4 times its size and a military 10X bigger that is supported by China, Iran, and North Korea.

And, yes, Ukrainians have proven to be MF-ing bad asses.

---

If you could only choose one expensive, frivolous counter-productive foreign war to destroy the US economy over... which would you choose - Ukraine War or Iran War?

---

I obviously disagree with the lead up, but I opposed the Iran war and support helping Ukraine. It is not expensive nor counterproductive. It's a tiny fraction of 1% of our spending, and we're helping the greatest freedom fighters since WW2.

---

We are literally helping the people we fought against in WW2.

---

Good thing we never helped post-war Germany or Japan, isn't it?

---

We helped purge Germany of the Nazi affliction. Now we're giving medals to former Waffen-SS troops. As the son of a WW2 vet, it's one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.

---

Lacks documentation. Please provide it, including names. Thanks in advance. Also, give us the average age of said former Waffen-SS troops and why we're giving them medals at that age.

---

https://www.google.com

---

I couldn't find anything. I tried.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Hunka_scandal

---

- Canada
- No medal
- Virtually nobody there knew his background and all disavowed following
- As I'm sure you know given your knowledge of the region, Ukrainians in that area who fought for Germany did so because Russia invaded and occupied them first. Their goal was to get rid of the Russians who terrorized them.

---

Their goal was to get rid of anyone they considered inferior, including Russians, Poles, and over a million Jews. While he may have been disavowed after public shaming, he represents exactly the kind of racist nationalism that we've supported in Ukraine ever since the end of the war.

---

You're way further adrift in Putin land than I thought . . . .

Racist nationalism in Ukraine?

Do you somehow deny Russia invaded Ukraine and terrorized Ukrainians before the Germans?

And unlike Russia, Ukraine has never stated that Russia and Russians don't really exist, Ukraine has never invaded Russia or threatened to. Ukraine has not stolen Russian children. Ukraine is not murdering Russian civilians. Ukraine has not tried to change Russian textbooks. Ukraine has not allied with North Korea, Iran, and China. Ukraine does not harass or kill Evangelicals and Catholics. Ukraine does not control its Orthodox church and the church is not led by spies. And on and on and on.

---

You're adrift in propaganda. Ukraine has done most of those things and more.

---

As with the blind support of Israel, Boomers have been soaked in anti-Russian propaganda for so long there is no changing their minds. It will require a generational reset.

---

I'm not a boomer, my wife and her family are Russian, I've been to and done business in Russia, I've been to Ukraine, and my disdain for Russia is based on what I know and have seen and not what anyone else has told me. Putin is one of our two main adversaries. He tries to undermine us all over the world and his closest friends are our primary enemies. Russia is a poverty stricken police state, with an economy controlled by nepotists, oligarchs, and the mob. Putin kills political opponents, jails citizens for speech and expression, and harasses Evangelicals, Protestants, and Catholics. It is one of the least Christian European nations with among the highest rates of abortion, STDs, divorce, and booming and brutal underground prostitution industry. Putin took over the Orthodox Church and dictates its every move. And, yes, Putin invaded and terrorized a free sovereign neighbor that is one of the most Christian countries in the world.

---

Given the sweep of its history, I understand why Russia would want "buffer zones." More recent history, however, strongly suggests that "buffer zones" is Russian for "puppet states." Among the many problems with becoming a puppet state is that there is no opt-out clause. So while neither Ukraine nor Russia is pristine, the Ukranian case is the better one as far as protecting people's basic human rights. It is not really close.

---

Recent history strongly suggests the opposite. Everyone was content with Ukrainian neutrality until the West intervened (and neutrality is all that Russia demanded even then).

---

I consider 1950-1990 recent. Also, all Hitler wanted from Poland was neutrality. Until he didn't. The West is imperfect, yes. But I would rather live in the West than in a state and economy controlled in Moscow. Pretty difficult to see how people who have experienced both would choose Moscow.

---

Ukrainians never saw it as a choice between Moscow and the West. That's a dilemma that we tried to force on them, and when they rejected it we made the choice for them.

---

Apparently they saw it as a cholce when Putin attacked. Your views exclude the fact that Ukranians have fought like hell for the past four years. Forget about polls, if you are willing to die rather than live under Russian rule, that is pretty powerful evidence of the people's will. If they didn't care, if they just want neutrality, if they are Russians at heart, why are they fighting so hard?

Sam Lowry said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Czar Putin. Russia changes its governmental style over the last 200 years, but not really, The police state is continuous. A shame.

---

A narrative that completely contradicts what we heard during the Cold War, yet somehow leads to the same conclusion that hostilities with Russia are inevitable. Funny how that works.

---

You will have to explain that narrative. Good luck showing how the Russian police state hasn't been pretty darn consistent between czarist Russia, communist Russia, and post Cold War Russia. And I don't recall a big narrative in the Cold War about how wonderful Russia was under the czars. I do recall the crushing of the glimmer of representative government between the czar's abdication and Bolshevik takeover.

It depends on which Ukrainians you're talking about. Not caring, wanting neutrality, and wanting Russian rule are all very different things. Attitudes in the west obviously hardened in 2022, but there would almost certainly have been a negotiated peace if not for the influence of the US, the UK, and the Nazi militias (who assassinated a couple of negotiators and threatened to assassinate Zelensky if he made any kind of deal). As for the Donbas militias, they either joined the Russian military or fought alongside it.

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Czar Putin. Russia changes its governmental style over the last 200 years, but not really, The police state is continuous. A shame.

---

A narrative that completely contradicts what we heard during the Cold War, yet somehow leads to the same conclusion that hostilities with Russia are inevitable. Funny how that works.

---

You will have to explain that narrative. Good luck showing how the Russian police state hasn't been pretty darn consistent between czarist Russia, communist Russia, and post Cold War Russia. And I don't recall a big narrative in the Cold War about how wonderful Russia was under the czars. I do recall the crushing of the glimmer of representative government between the czar's abdication and Bolshevik takeover.

---

We were always told that communism was uniquely evil, that it was the source Russia's imperial ambitions, that glasnost brought real change, and that Russians welcomed the idea of friendship with the West. Now the story is that Russians are congenitally hostile, every Russian regime is as bad as the next, and the agreement to end the Cold War was a sham (which would make Reagan one of the biggest dupes in presidential history). Very different narratives indeed.

Sam Lowry said:

---

It depends on which Ukrainians you're talking about. Not caring, wanting neutrality, and wanting Russian rule are all very different things. Attitudes in the west obviously hardened in 2022, but there would almost certainly have been a negotiated peace if not for the influence of the US, the UK, and the Nazi militias (who assassinated a couple of negotiators and threatened to assassinate Zelensky if he made any kind of deal). As for the Donbas militias, they either joined the Russian military or fought alongside it.

---

"Attitudes in the West obviously hardened in 2022." Yeah, you think? That tends to happen when one country launches a brutal military invasion of an ally.

"but there would almost certainly have been a negotiated peace if not for the influence of the US, the UK..." You could have just said--Ukraine would have been forced to cave if not for the assistance of its Western friends. Meaning, Ukraine as a puppet state, and many countries in Eastern Europe wondering if they were next. Which I guess would have been okay with you

The Nazi militia comment tries to elevate a marginal group to a decisive actor, which is just untrue.

And yes, there are Ukrainians with pro-Russian sentiment. There are also Texans who think we should secede. But countries don't work that way. One of the hard-and-fast rules is that one country does not take another country's land by military force. Russia broke that rule and I don't understand why you would defend it.

Frank Galvin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

It depends on which Ukrainians you're talking about. Not caring, wanting neutrality, and wanting Russian rule are all very different things. Attitudes in the west obviously hardened in 2022, but there would almost certainly have been a negotiated peace if not for the influence of the US, the UK, and the Nazi militias (who assassinated a couple of negotiators and threatened to assassinate Zelensky if he made any kind of deal). As for the Donbas militias, they either joined the Russian military or fought alongside it.

---

"Attitudes in the West obviously hardened in 2022." Yeah, you think? That tends to happen when one country launches a brutal military invasion of an ally.

"but there would almost certainly have been a negotiated peace if not for the influence of the US, the UK..." You could have just said--Ukraine would have been forced to cave if not for the assistance of its Western friends. Meaning, Ukraine as a puppet state, and many countries in Eastern Europe wondering if they were next. Which I guess would have been okay with you

The Nazi militia comment tries to elevate a marginal group to a decisive actor, which is just untrue.

And yes, there are Ukrainians with pro-Russian sentiment. There are also Texans who think we should secede. But countries don't work that way. One of the hard-and-fast rules is that one country does not take another country's land by military force. Russia broke that rule and I don't understand why you would defend it.

---

Yes, it tends to happen.

Russia was basically trying to implement the Minsk Agreements. Zelensky won his office by promising to do just that. It would not have made Ukraine a puppet state, at least not of Russia.

The only truly decisive actors are Russia and the US, but the Nazi militias are an important tool of the US and always have been. They're by no means marginal in their effect.

There are a lot of hard and fast rules, and we tend to be quite selective about which ones we recognize at a given time. Aggression against another country's political independence, for example our participation in the toppling of Ukraine's government in 2014, is every bit as unlawful as aggression against a country's territory.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

It depends on which Ukrainians you're talking about. Not caring, wanting neutrality, and wanting Russian rule are all very different things. Attitudes in the west obviously hardened in 2022, but there would almost certainly have been a negotiated peace if not for the influence of the US, the UK, and the Nazi militias (who assassinated a couple of negotiators and threatened to assassinate Zelensky if he made any kind of deal). As for the Donbas militias, they either joined the Russian military or fought alongside it.

---

"Attitudes in the West obviously hardened in 2022." Yeah, you think? That tends to happen when one country launches a brutal military invasion of an ally.

"but there would almost certainly have been a negotiated peace if not for the influence of the US, the UK..." You could have just said--Ukraine would have been forced to cave if not for the assistance of its Western friends. Meaning, Ukraine as a puppet state, and many countries in Eastern Europe wondering if they were next. Which I guess would have been okay with you

The Nazi militia comment tries to elevate a marginal group to a decisive actor, which is just untrue.

And yes, there are Ukrainians with pro-Russian sentiment. There are also Texans who think we should secede. But countries don't work that way. One of the hard-and-fast rules is that one country does not take another country's land by military force. Russia broke that rule and I don't understand why you would defend it.

---

Yes, it tends to happen.

Russia was basically trying to implement the Minsk Agreements. Zelensky won his office by promising to do just that. It would not have made Ukraine a puppet state, at least not of Russia.

The only truly decisive actors are Russia and the US, but the Nazi militias are an important tool of the US and always have been. They're by no means marginal in their effect.

There are a lot of hard and fast rules, and we tend to be quite selective about which ones we recognize at a given time. Aggression against another country's political independence, for example our participation in the toppling of Ukraine's government in 2014, is every bit as unlawful as aggression against a country's territory.

---

1. If it was trying to enforce the Minsk agreements, why did Russia declare them defunct before attacking?

2. Ukraine is the actor that has sacrificed blood and treasure. I would call the decisive.

3. We supported the protests; we didn't create them. And the protestors had a point.

4. There tends to be a lot more dead and maimed when territories are invaded.

Frank Galvin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

It depends on which Ukrainians you're talking about. Not caring, wanting neutrality, and wanting Russian rule are all very different things. Attitudes in the west obviously hardened in 2022, but there would almost certainly have been a negotiated peace if not for the influence of the US, the UK, and the Nazi militias (who assassinated a couple of negotiators and threatened to assassinate Zelensky if he made any kind of deal). As for the Donbas militias, they either joined the Russian military or fought alongside it.

---

"Attitudes in the West obviously hardened in 2022." Yeah, you think? That tends to happen when one country launches a brutal military invasion of an ally.

"but there would almost certainly have been a negotiated peace if not for the influence of the US, the UK..." You could have just said--Ukraine would have been forced to cave if not for the assistance of its Western friends. Meaning, Ukraine as a puppet state, and many countries in Eastern Europe wondering if they were next. Which I guess would have been okay with you

The Nazi militia comment tries to elevate a marginal group to a decisive actor, which is just untrue.

And yes, there are Ukrainians with pro-Russian sentiment. There are also Texans who think we should secede. But countries don't work that way. One of the hard-and-fast rules is that one country does not take another country's land by military force. Russia broke that rule and I don't understand why you would defend it.

---

Yes, it tends to happen.

Russia was basically trying to implement the Minsk Agreements. Zelensky won his office by promising to do just that. It would not have made Ukraine a puppet state, at least not of Russia.

The only truly decisive actors are Russia and the US, but the Nazi militias are an important tool of the US and always have been. They're by no means marginal in their effect.

There are a lot of hard and fast rules, and we tend to be quite selective about which ones we recognize at a given time. Aggression against another country's political independence, for example our participation in the toppling of Ukraine's government in 2014, is every bit as unlawful as aggression against a country's territory.

---

1. If it was trying to enforce the Minsk agreements, why did Russia declare them defunct before attacking?

2. Ukraine is the actor that has sacrificed blood and treasure. I would call the decisive.

3. We supported the protests; we didn't create them. And the protestors had a point.

4. There tends to be a lot more dead and maimed when territories are invaded.

---

My mistake, I forgot that Russia had officially recognized the Donbas republics at the time. The point remains, as much as that might have been an insult to Ukraine's territorial integrity, it had no effect on the central government and was far from rendering it a puppet state.

The protests were largely a Western operation, like the ones in 2004 and countless others around the globe. Election interference and regime change are standard operating procedure.

Ukraine punished the Donbas for many years and was preparing to double down on its attacks in 2022. Russia's decision to invade caused more suffering for Ukraine but less for the territories it annexed.

My point isn't to argue who has a right to what territory. That's a political question, or perhaps more accurately a military one. What's vitally important is to understand what the principal parties are doing and why.