Absolute liberal lunacy - sending your kid to a low income school as political fodder

4,657 Views | 68 Replies | Last: 20 days ago by Redbrickbear
Danielsjackson114
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LMAO

She used her daughter as a fkn guinea pig for her make believe fairytale. It is disgusting, and on the borderline of child neglect... she will hate her mom for the rest of her life for simply using her for political cannon fodder. The mom never needs to procreate every again

You can still delete your post
Redbrickbear
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Frank Galvin said:

Redbrickbear said:



My guess is that minority students also tend to live in higher-cost-of-living areas. As long as we are focusing on NYC, it is true that per-pupil spending there is much higher than the rest of the country. But so is per-latte Starbucks. And per-pupil private school spending.

That is not to say that NYC schools don't have tremendous institutional problems, or that the root cause of most of them is poor parenting. I believe both of those things to be true. But saying that NYC (or any big city) should have "average" per-pupil spending ignores economic reality.

Very possible.

But NYC can be directly compared to similar high cost of living places like Chicago and LA.

And NYC still out spends those big cities on education.

[NYC spends substantially on public education, making it the highest per-pupil expenditure among large urban school districts in the United States. Totally budge each year is approximately $43 billion to $45 billion total operating budget. More than 50% higher than other major urban districts like Los Angeles and Chicago, and far more than the U.S. national average of -$17,619.]
cowboycwr
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Porteroso said:

Many of you guys have the same blame-centric mindset that this looney has. Or had, because she put her money and even child where her mouth was, learned her error, and openly admitted it.

When all we seek is to blame, even our own failures fail to teach us anything. But there is something to be learned, and it is neither that the apathy and neglect of this forum towards the education of poor people works, nor that sacrificing the future of your child will work.

What can be gained, is the knowledge that each of us is ultimately responsible for ourselves, and our own, only. We can seek to help others, but what actually serves these poor and failing schools best, is to avoid them and seek the highest quality of education for ourselves and our own. We bring others up by setting the highest possible standard, not by debasing our children down to theirs.

Who is blaming?

We are pointing out that sending your child to a failing school is going to result in bad results.

How is that blaming?

The public education system in the US for too long has had a monopoly on education. As the DOE came into existence education has gotten worse. The solution has been to throw money at it, add more and more regulations, and (from the left) cry that moving to a better school/private school is racism, or pointing out the faults of the schools, the parents, the students, the culture of the community around a specific school is racism.

Which to me goes right along with the article I shared on Chicago schools sitting empty.

The people have spoken just like they do in the free market......only education is not a free market so when it fails the government props it up and keeps doing the same band aid fixes without addressing the true problems.
Mitch Blood Green
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cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an hour our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bought their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.
cowboycwr
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Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

It absolutely is more than just throwing money at it (money spent per student).

IT is the community on the outside. The involvement of the parents. Do the parents value education? or do they view it as free "daycare" while they work? Are students held accountable or passed from grade to grade to avoid too many students failing... especially if they are SPED or minority or ESL or because failing "hurts them psychologically" and about a dozen other things.
Harrison Bergeron
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Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.
Mitch Blood Green
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Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.
cowboycwr
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Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......
Forest Bueller III
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Frank Galvin said:

Redbrickbear said:



My guess is that minority students also tend to live in higher-cost-of-living areas. As long as we are focusing on NYC, it is true that per-pupil spending there is much higher than the rest of the country. But so is per-latte Starbucks. And per-pupil private school spending.

That is not to say that NYC schools don't have tremendous institutional problems, or that the root cause of most of them is poor parenting. I believe both of those things to be true. But saying that NYC (or any big city) should have "average" per-pupil spending ignores economic reality.

As someone that grew up in a very poor school district, it is impossible to overcome poor parental involvement and care, or substandard teachers. My school had nobody that could teach beyond Geometry and Algebra 2. In the metroplex my kid got to Algebra 2 in the 10th grade. I had a coach with no scientific training teach Chemistry. When another kid and I wanted to try Calculus, they gave us the textbook, and we tried to teach each other. The teacher wasn't capable of teaching it.

There are smart as heck kids, even in the worst districts. It would be brutal/cruel to take a wealthy uber privileged kid and put them in a hood school. They aren't emotionally equipped to thrive in that setting.
Forest Bueller III
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Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.



Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.


Yea, even the worst kids did not want my 6'5" 250 lbs. ex D1 basketball player dad, who was HS Principal to give them a whipping. Damn you could hear that all the way down the hall. It got the message across.

Once I got past 6th grade I never got a whipping at school. Dad was not going to get a shot at me.
Danielsjackson114
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https://www.newsweek.com/nikole-hannah-jones-may-have-just-written-a-eulogy-for-woke-idealism-12470001

Media calling it a woke sacrifice especially after the daughter REPEATEDLY tried to warn mom about the school she was going to

Mom responded in wokeisms
Harrison Bergeron
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cowboycwr said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......

I genuinely do not have an opinion on the STAAR test. But I do not really understand its being used as the "root of all evil" for public education either. I can see the value of some standardized measure of student performance. We've been doing it for probably 50 years - I am old enough to remember the TABS and TEAMS tests
Redbrickbear
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Danielsjackson114
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Watch out

You may be called a racist for posting facts
Redbrickbear
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cowboycwr said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......


Kind of like how arbitrary college "rankings" have our universities turning themselves inside out to chase these arbitrary metrics

Everything else…including their mission, not saddling their students with debt, and their own individual strengths…all comes secondary to hitting those new goals of "get higher in the college rankings"

Even more amazing is these college rankings were just created as a marketing ploy to sell magazines.
Harrison Bergeron
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Redbrickbear said:

cowboycwr said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......


Kind of like how arbitrary college "rankings" have our universities turning themselves inside out to chase these arbitrary metrics

Everything else…including their mission, not saddling their students with debt, and their own individual strengths…all comes secondary to hitting those new goals of "get higher in the college rankings"

Even more amazing is these college rankings were just created as a marketing ploy to sell magazines.


What?
Redbrickbear
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Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

cowboycwr said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......


Kind of like how arbitrary college "rankings" have our universities turning themselves inside out to chase these arbitrary metrics

Everything else…including their mission, not saddling their students with debt, and their own individual strengths…all comes secondary to hitting those new goals of "get higher in the college rankings"

Even more amazing is these college rankings were just created as a marketing ploy to sell magazines.


What?


STAAR test results bad metric for grade schools and students to chase

College "rankings" bad metric for universities to chase

Harrison Bergeron
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Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

cowboycwr said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......


Kind of like how arbitrary college "rankings" have our universities turning themselves inside out to chase these arbitrary metrics

Everything else…including their mission, not saddling their students with debt, and their own individual strengths…all comes secondary to hitting those new goals of "get higher in the college rankings"

Even more amazing is these college rankings were just created as a marketing ploy to sell magazines.


What?


STAAR test results bad metric for grade schools and students to chase

College "rankings" bad metric for universities to chase

Okay. You absolutely may be correct.

So just explain why STAAT test results are a bad metric to grade schools and teachers?
Redbrickbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

cowboycwr said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......


Kind of like how arbitrary college "rankings" have our universities turning themselves inside out to chase these arbitrary metrics

Everything else…including their mission, not saddling their students with debt, and their own individual strengths…all comes secondary to hitting those new goals of "get higher in the college rankings"

Even more amazing is these college rankings were just created as a marketing ploy to sell magazines.


What?


STAAR test results bad metric for grade schools and students to chase

College "rankings" bad metric for universities to chase

Okay. You absolutely may be correct.

So just explain why STAAT test results are a bad metric to grade schools and teachers?


It's the culture that it creates (just like college rankings culture) that is the real problem. More than the stand alone test itself.

[Obsessing over test scores leads to a "drill-and-kill" culture. Schools replace creative expression, socialization, play, and hands-on learning with test-taking strategies and rote memorization.
The high-stakes environment inflicts severe emotional stress on young children, students, and educators alike, sometimes killing the natural joy of learning
Critics and groups point out that assessments are often written at reading levels beyond a student's actual grade. They act as punitive metrics rather than helpful diagnostic tools
Preparing for, practicing, and administering the exams consumes weeks of valuable classroom instruction time that could otherwise be spent on authentic teaching]
Harrison Bergeron
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Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

cowboycwr said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......


Kind of like how arbitrary college "rankings" have our universities turning themselves inside out to chase these arbitrary metrics

Everything else…including their mission, not saddling their students with debt, and their own individual strengths…all comes secondary to hitting those new goals of "get higher in the college rankings"

Even more amazing is these college rankings were just created as a marketing ploy to sell magazines.


What?


STAAR test results bad metric for grade schools and students to chase

College "rankings" bad metric for universities to chase

Okay. You absolutely may be correct.

So just explain why STAAT test results are a bad metric to grade schools and teachers?


It's the culture that it creates (just like college rankings culture) that is the real problem. More than the stand alone test itself.

[Obsessing over test scores leads to a "drill-and-kill" culture. Schools replace creative expression, socialization, play, and hands-on learning with test-taking strategies and rote memorization.
The high-stakes environment inflicts severe emotional stress on young children, students, and educators alike, sometimes killing the natural joy of learning
Critics and groups point out that assessments are often written at reading levels beyond a student's actual grade. They act as punitive metrics rather than helpful diagnostic tools
Preparing for, practicing, and administering the exams consumes weeks of valuable classroom instruction time that could otherwise be spent on authentic teaching]

(I am just clarifying upfront that I have no position on testing I am just seeking to understand).

What's with the weird college ranking comparison? That make zero sense.

I appreciate the commentary, but are there any facts or data to back up all the claims? They might be 100% true ... I just need a little more than assertions. For example, I could postulate with as much credibility is that teachers and administrators dread accountability so naturally they oppose anything that supports evaluating performance.

We have been deploying standardized test for 50 years ... why is this is a new controversy?
El Oso
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Start here. And as a former writer of the test, I can confirm this is 100% true. I was repeatedly told to raise the reading level of questions and stories.

Reading passages on the STAAR test are written above the actual grade level being tested, turning a test of reading comprehension into a test of frustration.

Some 4th graders can handle fifth, sixth, and seventh grade level vocabulary. Most don't have a prayer, and there's nothing wrong with that seeing as they are in the 4th grade.

Old STAAR tests are available on line. Grab an ELAR test and run it through a grade level reading assessment (think Flesh-Kincaid as an example). You will find most of the test to be above the tested grade reading level.
Redbrickbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

cowboycwr said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......


Kind of like how arbitrary college "rankings" have our universities turning themselves inside out to chase these arbitrary metrics

Everything else…including their mission, not saddling their students with debt, and their own individual strengths…all comes secondary to hitting those new goals of "get higher in the college rankings"

Even more amazing is these college rankings were just created as a marketing ploy to sell magazines.


What?


STAAR test results bad metric for grade schools and students to chase

College "rankings" bad metric for universities to chase

Okay. You absolutely may be correct.

So just explain why STAAT test results are a bad metric to grade schools and teachers?


It's the culture that it creates (just like college rankings culture) that is the real problem. More than the stand alone test itself.

[Obsessing over test scores leads to a "drill-and-kill" culture. Schools replace creative expression, socialization, play, and hands-on learning with test-taking strategies and rote memorization.
The high-stakes environment inflicts severe emotional stress on young children, students, and educators alike, sometimes killing the natural joy of learning
Critics and groups point out that assessments are often written at reading levels beyond a student's actual grade. They act as punitive metrics rather than helpful diagnostic tools
Preparing for, practicing, and administering the exams consumes weeks of valuable classroom instruction time that could otherwise be spent on authentic teaching]

(I am just clarifying upfront that I have no position on testing I am just seeking to understand).

What's with the weird college ranking comparison? That make zero sense.

We have been deploying standardized test for 50 years ... why is this is a new controversy?


I should have made it clear…I am against the culture that grows up around these things (tests in schools, college rankings)

On their own I can't be against a ranking of colleges or a standardized test

But I can be against these when they become mertics that our educational system obsesses over.

Students obsess over (tests and rankings)

We have teachers and students stressed out yearly about these tests

I had girl tell me she picked one college over the other based on college rankings (both schools she was talking about were essentially the same)

It's become toxic and seems to consume far more "oxygen", time, and priority than it needs to be
J.R.
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Danielsjackson114 said:

That's what Nikole Hannah Jones did to her child and now regrets it.

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2026/09/the-tragedy-of-nikole-hannah-jones.html

Is this on the edge of neglect?

now it makes too much sense. That is where momma and daddy sent you.
cowboycwr
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Harrison Bergeron said:

cowboycwr said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......

I genuinely do not have an opinion on the STAAR test. But I do not really understand its being used as the "root of all evil" for public education either. I can see the value of some standardized measure of student performance. We've been doing it for probably 50 years - I am old enough to remember the TABS and TEAMS tests

It isn't so much the existence of the test. It is all the "Extras" that go with it.

We need some sort of test to measure what kids know, if they go on to the next grade, etc.

But making the test tied to school accountability rankings and the state coming to take over a district but the kids have zero accountability is a little stupid. Ok A lot stupid.

A kid can fail the math and English test in every grade from 3rd through 8th and still go on to the next grade level. No repercussions. But the teacher will be asked why they failed, how are they going to get more kids to pass the test, maybe even reassigned, etc. and if the school does bad enough for 5 straight years the state comes in to take over.

The test has to have a meaning for the kids. Like the SAT or ACT. IF they do well it helps them get into college, get scholarships, or with the PSAT with advanced high school courses for college credit.

But the STAAR.... nothing. They take it and never look at it again. They take it mid April and don't get scores until the summer. They never look at the questions, their answers, go over why they got it wrong, what the right answer was, or any of that type of stuff you should do after a test (in a class).

TLDR answer- it is the fact that almost EVERYTHING for schools is tied to the STAAR test.

cowboycwr
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Redbrickbear said:

cowboycwr said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......


Kind of like how arbitrary college "rankings" have our universities turning themselves inside out to chase these arbitrary metrics

Everything else…including their mission, not saddling their students with debt, and their own individual strengths…all comes secondary to hitting those new goals of "get higher in the college rankings"

Even more amazing is these college rankings were just created as a marketing ploy to sell magazines.

At least some of the college rankings can tie back to actual data that matters. Like research, or pay of their graduates, or degrees awarded, etc. but the majority of the rankings are just a ploy I agree.

The ones I mentioned don't really impact rankings much but should be something that is looked at by parents and students when choosing a college. A school that has lots of kids graduating with a certain degree, finding a job, a high paying job and doing well in life should be a consideration over another school that can't say those things.
cowboycwr
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

cowboycwr said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......


Kind of like how arbitrary college "rankings" have our universities turning themselves inside out to chase these arbitrary metrics

Everything else…including their mission, not saddling their students with debt, and their own individual strengths…all comes secondary to hitting those new goals of "get higher in the college rankings"

Even more amazing is these college rankings were just created as a marketing ploy to sell magazines.


What?


STAAR test results bad metric for grade schools and students to chase

College "rankings" bad metric for universities to chase

Okay. You absolutely may be correct.

So just explain why STAAT test results are a bad metric to grade schools and teachers?


It's the culture that it creates (just like college rankings culture) that is the real problem. More than the stand alone test itself.

[Obsessing over test scores leads to a "drill-and-kill" culture. Schools replace creative expression, socialization, play, and hands-on learning with test-taking strategies and rote memorization.
The high-stakes environment inflicts severe emotional stress on young children, students, and educators alike, sometimes killing the natural joy of learning
Critics and groups point out that assessments are often written at reading levels beyond a student's actual grade. They act as punitive metrics rather than helpful diagnostic tools
Preparing for, practicing, and administering the exams consumes weeks of valuable classroom instruction time that could otherwise be spent on authentic teaching]

(I am just clarifying upfront that I have no position on testing I am just seeking to understand).

What's with the weird college ranking comparison? That make zero sense.

I appreciate the commentary, but are there any facts or data to back up all the claims? They might be 100% true ... I just need a little more than assertions. For example, I could postulate with as much credibility is that teachers and administrators dread accountability so naturally they oppose anything that supports evaluating performance.

We have been deploying standardized test for 50 years ... why is this is a new controversy?

Yes there is lots of data and research to back those up. I can start posting them if you want but you can also do a Google search to find them.

As to why it is a controversy it is because the scores are used as a measure for the schools in an unfair way. If a school does bad they can get taken over by TEA losing all local control..... which goes against the idea of school districts are a local gov, as well as a host of other issues. Another is that the accountability is there for the school but none for the kid. A kid can just answer c all the way down the test and it doesn't affect them in any way (well now it is answer c on the screen as all tests are computer based).

To put another way..... it is blaming the service department of a dealership for why the salespeople aren't selling cars.
Harrison Bergeron
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cowboycwr said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

cowboycwr said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......

I genuinely do not have an opinion on the STAAR test. But I do not really understand its being used as the "root of all evil" for public education either. I can see the value of some standardized measure of student performance. We've been doing it for probably 50 years - I am old enough to remember the TABS and TEAMS tests

It isn't so much the existence of the test. It is all the "Extras" that go with it.

We need some sort of test to measure what kids know, if they go on to the next grade, etc.

But making the test tied to school accountability rankings and the state coming to take over a district but the kids have zero accountability is a little stupid. Ok A lot stupid.

A kid can fail the math and English test in every grade from 3rd through 8th and still go on to the next grade level. No repercussions. But the teacher will be asked why they failed, how are they going to get more kids to pass the test, maybe even reassigned, etc. and if the school does bad enough for 5 straight years the state comes in to take over.

The test has to have a meaning for the kids. Like the SAT or ACT. IF they do well it helps them get into college, get scholarships, or with the PSAT with advanced high school courses for college credit.

But the STAAR.... nothing. They take it and never look at it again. They take it mid April and don't get scores until the summer. They never look at the questions, their answers, go over why they got it wrong, what the right answer was, or any of that type of stuff you should do after a test (in a class).

TLDR answer- it is the fact that almost EVERYTHING for schools is tied to the STAAR test.



That makes a ton of sense. Seems like if a student fails the STAAR she should not matriculate to the next grade. Not sure what is a good alternative to evaluating efficacy of the education system.
Porteroso
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Danielsjackson114 said:

LMAO

She used her daughter as a fkn guinea pig for her make believe fairytale. It is disgusting, and on the borderline of child neglect... she will hate her mom for the rest of her life for simply using her for political cannon fodder. The mom never needs to procreate every again

You can still delete your post

She sent her kid to a school that wasn't the best.... Not neglect, just dumb.
Danielsjackson114
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as a sacrifice for her woke beliefs

You are an imbecile lol
Porteroso
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Danielsjackson114 said:

as a sacrifice for her woke beliefs

You are an imbecile lol

I forgot who I was responding to.
cowboycwr
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Harrison Bergeron said:

cowboycwr said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

cowboycwr said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

cowboycwr said:

Another example of blaming everything other than the system when schools in Chicago are empty. 27 students TOTAL attend a building built for 1,000 students.....

But people don't want to talk about how much is spent per student, the race of the students, the culture/community the school is in, the leaders, etc.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-half-empty-schools-reveal-crisis-city-leaders-refuse-confront


There's a lot to unpack here. I went to Chicago Public Schools. I did t but attend the same High School as my siblings. Why? Because we could test and pick our school. We all went to top notch schools. Many of my classmates traveled an out our more to attend my school. (I also had a classmate who's parents bout their kid a Lincoln Park condo so that she didn't have to travel as far).

In any case, my school choice was far superior than the "high income" school my daughter attended.

I don't know why a school fails or is successful. I believe it's more than the money put into it.

100%. I had a similar experience and would make the same contrast between my high school and my kids'.

My school was majority minority, but it was in a smaller city with small town values. Sure we had some bad kids but most kids came from relatively stable homes and parents generally were involved. We also had some of the best academic programs in the state and regularly won athletic and academic competition. And I took Latin.

It's 80% culture and 20% funding.

Not making it a political thing, but schools started failing when corporal punishment was phased out. You see a paddle on the wall in elementary school you behave. That behavior starts to be ingrained. I got three licks for chewing gum in 9th grade - never chewed gum again at school.



Funny now. There was a boiler room that people swore had a whipping machine in it. Of course, as happens with urban legends, people knew someone who had to go in it.

We also had the room where the teachers went to smoke.

The worse thing I think done to education in the last 25 years (in Texas) is that test. I understand that we need to measure progress. Not sure we have the proper mechanism.

The STAAR test is the worst.... the idea of testing in TX has been around for over 30 years.

IF there is going to be a test it HAS to be tied to moving to the next grade, graduation, etc.

As it is now the test only matters in high school. If a kid fails a test in 3-8 it means nothing. They still go to the next grade, they don't have to retake it or anything else. They have to do extra hours of "tutoring" the following year...... which makes no sense why they have to do extra tutoring for 4th grade math while in 5th grade, for example, where they basically just get extra time on 5th grade material.

In high school it doesn't even matter that much either. Kids just retake it until their senior year and then they can do other things to "replace" the test. Since the test (STAAR) has been around since 2012 we have kids graduating HS that have never passed a single STAAR test......

I genuinely do not have an opinion on the STAAR test. But I do not really understand its being used as the "root of all evil" for public education either. I can see the value of some standardized measure of student performance. We've been doing it for probably 50 years - I am old enough to remember the TABS and TEAMS tests

It isn't so much the existence of the test. It is all the "Extras" that go with it.

We need some sort of test to measure what kids know, if they go on to the next grade, etc.

But making the test tied to school accountability rankings and the state coming to take over a district but the kids have zero accountability is a little stupid. Ok A lot stupid.

A kid can fail the math and English test in every grade from 3rd through 8th and still go on to the next grade level. No repercussions. But the teacher will be asked why they failed, how are they going to get more kids to pass the test, maybe even reassigned, etc. and if the school does bad enough for 5 straight years the state comes in to take over.

The test has to have a meaning for the kids. Like the SAT or ACT. IF they do well it helps them get into college, get scholarships, or with the PSAT with advanced high school courses for college credit.

But the STAAR.... nothing. They take it and never look at it again. They take it mid April and don't get scores until the summer. They never look at the questions, their answers, go over why they got it wrong, what the right answer was, or any of that type of stuff you should do after a test (in a class).

TLDR answer- it is the fact that almost EVERYTHING for schools is tied to the STAAR test.



That makes a ton of sense. Seems like if a student fails the STAAR she should not matriculate to the next grade. Not sure what is a good alternative to evaluating efficacy of the education system.

A test could be a good measure of evaluating the education system. But the test has to be good/valid.

Right now it is neither.

As another poster pointed out it uses vocabulary above Grade level. For example, on the 3rd grade math test (8 and 9 year old kids) it uses words considered to be 5th or 6th grade words. Like Expression (in math terms) or equivalent.

Another problem is the pass rates. They can used to change every year. They do still often change.

3rd grade math in 2025 needed 15 out of 37 to pass. 2026 it was 16 out of 37. 2023 it was 14 out of 37.

Then if you go grade by grade the rates change. And can be drastic once you start looking at high school tests compared to middle school.

Biology needs 10 out of 40. 8th grade science is 14 out of 35.

8th grade US History is 22 out of 49. High school US History is 21 out of 78.

But the state/schools want to look at why the pass scores for 8th grade and high school are different. They also want to compare different grade levels of students. If students score 54% on 3rd grade math the state/schools expect that the next year the 3rd grade scores should be higher, even though it is now a new group of 3rd graders. Even tracking the same group from grade to grade isn't applied evenly as it is still math but it is different content in 4th grade from 3rd grade.

Then you have the issue of the state changes what is tested each year. A standard (TEKS) may or may not be tested.

I would have no problem with a test being used to measure how schools are doing if the test were consistent, valid, and comparable. right now it is none of those.
Harrison Bergeron
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Thanks. Makes too much sense
4yrletterbear
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They are STUPID people
Redbrickbear
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