BluesBear said:

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Bullets are cheap. Stupid we aren't using them.

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Doesn't Utah use them? Or has that changed.

Mitch Blood Green said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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I don't understand the appeal behind the death penalty. Could be mistaken, but:

I don't believe it has been proven to deter crime

It costs the state tons due to the appeals

Not as punitive as life in prison for a lot of people (In this case specifically she was calling her execution a 'happy day'

I don't fall squarly in the 'small government' camp, but even I don't like the idea of giving the government the power to kill its citizens

As a Christian, I believe none are past the point of redemption and the death penalty robs the chance of saving more souls.

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Some crimes are so heinous the death penalty is justified.

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Some crimes are so heinous that I forget they happen over time until their death day arrive 25 years later.

When Amber Guyer got probation, I'd forgotten about her until her release. The couldn't believe it'd been 7 years.

I'm not opposed to the death penalty. I can live without it.

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The criminal justice system should have 3 goals:
Deterrence
Rehabilitation
Justice for the victims

Some cases require death of the perpetrator for justice

Osodecentx said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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I don't understand the appeal behind the death penalty. Could be mistaken, but:

I don't believe it has been proven to deter crime

It costs the state tons due to the appeals

Not as punitive as life in prison for a lot of people (In this case specifically she was calling her execution a 'happy day'

I don't fall squarly in the 'small government' camp, but even I don't like the idea of giving the government the power to kill its citizens

As a Christian, I believe none are past the point of redemption and the death penalty robs the chance of saving more souls.

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Some crimes are so heinous the death penalty is justified.

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Jusified by what or by who? What if the criminal would prefer death than life in prison? You'd be rewarding them.

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By the laws of the criminal justice system

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This doesn't answer the question. The laws are whatever we decide them to be. What justifies the death penalty as a method of punishment?

Mitch Blood Green said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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I don't understand the appeal behind the death penalty. Could be mistaken, but:

I don't believe it has been proven to deter crime

It costs the state tons due to the appeals

Not as punitive as life in prison for a lot of people (In this case specifically she was calling her execution a 'happy day'

I don't fall squarly in the 'small government' camp, but even I don't like the idea of giving the government the power to kill its citizens

As a Christian, I believe none are past the point of redemption and the death penalty robs the chance of saving more souls.

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Some crimes are so heinous the death penalty is justified.

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Some crimes are so heinous that I forget they happen over time until their death day arrive 25 years later.

When Amber Guyer got probation, I'd forgotten about her until her release. The couldn't believe it'd been 7 years.

I'm not opposed to the death penalty. I can live without it.

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The criminal justice system should have 3 goals:
Deterrence
Rehabilitation
Justice for the victims

Some cases require death of the perpetrator for justice

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There's no such thing as justice for the victims. Not sure deterrence exists.

I hate what I'm about to say but here it is. If you were to kill my family. The state killing you isn't justice for me.

It's vengeance.

Deterrence assumes criminals are logical and consider consequences. I don't believe that.

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I respectfully disagree.

Osodecentx said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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I don't understand the appeal behind the death penalty. Could be mistaken, but:

I don't believe it has been proven to deter crime

It costs the state tons due to the appeals

Not as punitive as life in prison for a lot of people (In this case specifically she was calling her execution a 'happy day'

I don't fall squarly in the 'small government' camp, but even I don't like the idea of giving the government the power to kill its citizens

As a Christian, I believe none are past the point of redemption and the death penalty robs the chance of saving more souls.

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Some crimes are so heinous the death penalty is justified.

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Some crimes are so heinous that I forget they happen over time until their death day arrive 25 years later.

When Amber Guyer got probation, I'd forgotten about her until her release. The couldn't believe it'd been 7 years.

I'm not opposed to the death penalty. I can live without it.

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The criminal justice system should have 3 goals:
Deterrence
Rehabilitation
Justice for the victims

Some cases require death of the perpetrator for justice

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There's no such thing as justice for the victims. Not sure deterrence exists.

I hate what I'm about to say but here it is. If you were to kill my family. The state killing you isn't justice for me.

It's vengeance.

Deterrence assumes criminals are logical and consider consequences. I don't believe that.

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I respectfully disagree.

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That's cool.

El Oso said:

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She is intubated, on a ventilator and unconscious, and that both her arms were swollen, burned and blistered. As of the night of Oct. 1, Pike was still in critical condition at a Nashville-area hospital, the motion said.

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Have you read what she did to Colleen Slemmer?

Bestweekeverr said:

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I don't understand the appeal behind the death penalty. Could be mistaken, but:

I don't believe it has been proven to deter crime

It costs the state tons due to the appeals

Not as punitive as life in prison for a lot of people (In this case specifically she was calling her execution a 'happy day'

I don't fall squarly in the 'small government' camp, but even I don't like the idea of giving the government the power to kill its citizens

As a Christian, I believe none are past the point of redemption and the death penalty robs the chance of saving more souls.

It creates a system where many are complicit in the killing of another human being, which leads to situations like this one where companies don't want to sell these drugs for this purpose and end up giving expired or vague doses and the execution ends up botched.

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There is no way to measure whether it deters crime. If it was not a deterrent, then I would not expect so many criminals to accept a plea in order to avoid it. As noted above, the endless appeals should be reformed.

While do not think it necessarily robs the chance for saving more souls - I might argue it might enhance the chance - but as a Christian I am opposed to it.

Robert Wilson said:

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We have managed to administer the death penalty in a way that costs the taxpayers a crap load of money and removes most of the deterrent effect.

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I think the least painful and most cost-efficient way to do it is firing squad.

Low cost, almost instant if not instant death.

The lady that had her execution botched wanted the firing squad.

Robert Wilson said:

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We have managed to administer the death penalty in a way that costs the taxpayers a crap load of money and removes most of the deterrent effect.

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Yep.

Bestweekeverr said:

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I don't understand the appeal behind the death penalty. Could be mistaken, but:

I don't believe it has been proven to deter crime

It costs the state tons due to the appeals

Not as punitive as life in prison for a lot of people (In this case specifically she was calling her execution a 'happy day'

I don't fall squarly in the 'small government' camp, but even I don't like the idea of giving the government the power to kill its citizens

As a Christian, I believe none are past the point of redemption and the death penalty robs the chance of saving more souls.

It creates a system where many are complicit in the killing of another human being, which leads to situations like this one where companies don't want to sell these drugs for this purpose and end up giving expired or vague doses and the execution ends up botched.

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Really good post. Gives me much to consider. Thank you.

Forest Bueller III said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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We have managed to administer the death penalty in a way that costs the taxpayers a crap load of money and removes most of the deterrent effect.

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I think the least painful and most cost-efficient way to do it is firing squad.

Low cost, almost instant if not instant death.

The lady that had her execution botched wanted the firing squad.

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I'll raise you the guillotine. A pretty brilliant invention.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Forest Bueller III said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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We have managed to administer the death penalty in a way that costs the taxpayers a crap load of money and removes most of the deterrent effect.

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I think the least painful and most cost-efficient way to do it is firing squad.

Low cost, almost instant if not instant death.

The lady that had her execution botched wanted the firing squad.

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I'll raise you the guillotine. A pretty brilliant invention.

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Say what you want about Saudi Arabia and their beheadings...

drahthaar said:

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Difficult to plausibly explain this disaster. The drug in question is an anesthesia induction drug which will unfailingly bring on apnea necessary for intubation for surgery. The drugs used (sodium pentathol, Brevital, Propofol) are cheap and rapidly effective. Those who carried this out have got some 'splainin' to do.

In addition, intubation for surgery involves a paralytic to protect vocal cords and ease the process via muscle relaxation. If she never stopped breathing, she never got this agent either.

It is my understanding that a lethal dose of potassium is administered after induction, causing heart failure. Not sure at this time whether that is still standard procedure.

Part of my training involved the in the TDCJ hospital in Galveston, and I treated inmates there in practice off and on for 6 years, so my comments are based on what "was" in my experience.

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Vein blew. The drugs were deposited subcutaneously

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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BluesBear said:

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Bullets are cheap. Stupid we aren't using them.

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Doesn't Utah use them? Or has that changed.

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Utah does. I believe the person being killed has to select it.

If I were being killed in Utah, I'm selecting barbecue. Let the Cholesterol get me.

drahthaar said:

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Difficult to plausibly explain this disaster. The drug in question is an anesthesia induction drug which will unfailingly bring on apnea necessary for intubation for surgery. The drugs used (sodium pentathol, Brevital, Propofol) are cheap and rapidly effective. Those who carried this out have got some 'splainin' to do.

In addition, intubation for surgery involves a paralytic to protect vocal cords and ease the process via muscle relaxation. If she never stopped breathing, she never got this agent either.

It is my understanding that a lethal dose of potassium is administered after induction, causing heart failure. Not sure at this time whether that is still standard procedure.

Part of my training involved the in the TDCJ hospital in Galveston, and I treated inmates there in practice off and on for 6 years, so my comments are based on what "was" in my experience.

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I wanna go like Michael Jackson. Overdose me on propofol. That is amazing. Countdown from 10. 10,9 out.

I'm surprised no one on this board is proclaiming a miracle and that she was spared by God.

Osodecentx said:

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drahthaar said:

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Difficult to plausibly explain this disaster. The drug in question is an anesthesia induction drug which will unfailingly bring on apnea necessary for intubation for surgery. The drugs used (sodium pentathol, Brevital, Propofol) are cheap and rapidly effective. Those who carried this out have got some 'splainin' to do.

In addition, intubation for surgery involves a paralytic to protect vocal cords and ease the process via muscle relaxation. If she never stopped breathing, she never got this agent either.

It is my understanding that a lethal dose of potassium is administered after induction, causing heart failure. Not sure at this time whether that is still standard procedure.

Part of my training involved the in the TDCJ hospital in Galveston, and I treated inmates there in practice off and on for 6 years, so my comments are based on what "was" in my experience.

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Vein blew. The drugs were deposited subcutaneously

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That's the most plausible explanation.

TexasScientist said:

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I'm surprised no one on this board is proclaiming a miracle and that she was spared by God.

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You know better than that. Unnecessary shot, friend.

TexasScientist said:

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I'm surprised no one on this board is proclaiming a miracle and that she was spared by God.

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Cheap shot, unworthy of you

drahthaar said:

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TexasScientist said:

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I'm surprised no one on this board is proclaiming a miracle and that she was spared by God.

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You know better than that. Unnecessary shot, friend.

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It's no different from any other religious mystical life and death assertion.

The Tennessee prison chief has resigned after the botched execution of Christa Pike earlier this week, Gov. Bill Lee (R) said

Osodecentx said:

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TexasScientist said:

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I'm surprised no one on this board is proclaiming a miracle and that she was spared by God.

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Cheap shot, unworthy of you

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But not unexpected.

Taking a person's life is a tough decision. Still, when a murder is committed and the person is obviously guilty, I do not believe our society can allow that person to be released into society again. Does our society need to pay to keep that person in prison for the rest of their life?

drahthaar said:

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Osodecentx said:

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drahthaar said:

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Difficult to plausibly explain this disaster. The drug in question is an anesthesia induction drug which will unfailingly bring on apnea necessary for intubation for surgery. The drugs used (sodium pentathol, Brevital, Propofol) are cheap and rapidly effective. Those who carried this out have got some 'splainin' to do.

In addition, intubation for surgery involves a paralytic to protect vocal cords and ease the process via muscle relaxation. If she never stopped breathing, she never got this agent either.

It is my understanding that a lethal dose of potassium is administered after induction, causing heart failure. Not sure at this time whether that is still standard procedure.

Part of my training involved the in the TDCJ hospital in Galveston, and I treated inmates there in practice off and on for 6 years, so my comments are based on what "was" in my experience.

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Vein blew. The drugs were deposited subcutaneously

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That's the most plausible explanation.

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Yea, I saw a report on it, the drug was deposited in the muscles and was not injected into her bloodstream. They were working in the Hospital to get it out of her body so she could recover.

Forest Bueller III said:

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drahthaar said:

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Osodecentx said:

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drahthaar said:

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t Difficult to plausibly explain this disaster. The drug in question is an anesthesia induction drug which will unfailingly bring on apnea necessary for intubation for surgery. The drugs used (sodium pentathol, Brevital, Propofol) are cheap and rapidly effective. Those who carried this out have got some 'splainin' to do.

In addition, intubation for surgery involves a paralytic to protect vocal cords and ease the process via muscle relaxation. If she never stopped breathing, she never got this agent either.

It is my understanding that a lethal dose of potassium is administered after induction, causing heart failure. Not sure at this time whether that is still standard procedure.

Part of my training involved the in the TDCJ hospital in Galveston, and I treated inmates there in practice off and on for 6 years, so my comments are based on what "was" in my experience.

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Vein blew. The drugs were deposited subcutaneously

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That's the most plausible explanation.

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Yea, I saw a report on it, the drug was deposited in the muscles and was not injected into her bloodstream. They were working in the Hospital to get it out of her body so she could recover.

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Put me down for the doctor is an ant-death penalty advocate and did it on purpose ... or she's an idiot.

You're 0-2 here.

Dr. @+&^ (his name is supposed to be secret, but it was released by Tennessee prison officials in 2025) describes himself as a political and social conservative.

On his personal social media profiles, he characterizes himself as a conservative who writes heavily on economics, history, current affairs, and philosophy, advocating for what he calls traditional, "classically liberal solutions" to modern political issues.

According to reports by The Guardian and local media, he has occasionally written right-wing, conservative opinion columns for the Union City Daily Messenger, a newspaper in western Tennessee.

El Oso said:

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You're 0-2 here.

Dr. @+&^ (his name is supposed to be secret, but it was released by Tennessee prison officials in 2025) describes himself as a political and social conservative.
.

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His name is not secret it's Dr. Mark Fowler

[Before transitioning into medicine, Dr. Fowler began his professional career in law, graduating from the University of Tennessee in 1984 and working as a public defender who represented multiple death-penalty defendants. He later shifted careers to attend medical school, graduating in 1996, and has worked primarily as an emergency room physician and corporate medical director]

The confusion comes from some early articles saying it would be an "all female team" at the execution…or that such a team of all females had been requested

"Pike's legal team revealed that because she was a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and multiple rapes, she harbored a severe fear of being pinned down and poked with needles by men. She formally requested an all-female medical and execution staff to minimize that trauma"

"Following the botched procedure, her attorney Randy Spivey stated that the staff he observed inside the chamber appeared to be an all-female execution team, consistent with her final request"

https://nypost.com/2026/10/01/us-news/christa-pike-likely-got-her-wish-for-an-all-female-execution-staff-before-botched-lethal-injection-attorney/

I got in trouble on another thread for using the name of a juror. This doctor's name is not supposed to be public record either. A prison official outed him when answering a question following a previous execution. He should not have done that. Some would argue that the reporter should have kept the name private as well.

Guy Noir said:

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Taking a person's life is a tough decision. Still, when a murder is committed and the person is obviously guilty, I do not believe our society can allow that person to be released into society again. Does our society need to pay to keep that person in prison for the rest of their life?

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Death Penalty sentences cost taxpayers 1.5 to 5 times more than life sentences without parole.

El Oso said:

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I got in trouble on another thread for using the name of a juror. This doctor's name is not supposed to be public record either. A prison official outed him when answering a question following a previous execution. He should not have done that. Some would argue that the reporter should have kept the name private as well.

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Have you read the trial transcripts yet?

Have you noted I was maybe 1.5 - 0.5. You were incorrect about the doctors and the (almost) all-female execution staff.

Bestweekeverr said:

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Guy Noir said:

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Taking a person's life is a tough decision. Still, when a murder is committed and the person is obviously guilty, I do not believe our society can allow that person to be released into society again. Does our society need to pay to keep that person in prison for the rest of their life?

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Death Penalty sentences cost taxpayers 1.5 to 5 times more than life sentences without parole.

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Sometimes justice requires the DP