quash said:

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So who took control after the coup?

And somebody should tell Trump, he still thinks he's president.

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Sometimes they fail.

Act innocent

Jack and DP said:

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PartyBear said:

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If only it was that minor a situation.

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So what is the situation? You have no idea.

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Lmao! It sure isn't about sex out of marriage which is minor and only an idiot would think it is.

Trump himself is acting like this is significantly grave for him.

PartyBear said:

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Jack and DP said:

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PartyBear said:

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If only it was that minor a situation.

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So what is the situation? You have no idea.

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Lmao! It sure isn't about sex out of marriage which is minor and only an idiot would think it is.

Trump himself is acting like this is significantly grave for him.

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I don't know why. There's no collusion. No collusion

corncob pipe said:

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in before... "suitcase"

I think

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Damn it

Is it safe to go outside?

Depends on where you live .

bubbadog said:

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Apparently, it is Cohen (not Trump) who is being investigated. It involves possible bank fraud and campaign finance violations.

---

And an interesting by product - which I am sure they haven't thought of at all - is they may find some dirt on Trump. However, I thought they said that they were also looking for evidence of Cohen's involvement with Daniels and his communications with Trump regarding same. If that is the case, that doesn't seem to have anything to do with bank fraud or campaign finance violations.

Count me as one who finds the raid suspicious and potentially setting a dangerous precedent. As an attorney, the FBI raiding my files full of attorney-client communications would be quite troubling. While I am underwhelmed with Mueller's investigation thus far, I see why it is necessary. However, this has a very different feel. This seems almost like a witch hunt.

PartyBear said:

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Jack and DP said:

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PartyBear said:

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If only it was that minor a situation.

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So what is the situation? You have no idea.

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Lmao! It sure isn't about sex out of marriage which is minor and only an idiot would think it is.

Trump himself is acting like this is significantly grave for him.

---

What are you seeing in Trump that makes you think that?

Harvard Law Professor speaks on the events:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/alan-dershowitz-today-is-a-very-dangerous-day-for-lawyer-client-relations

You are full of crap Fube.

Name a similar action.

1 similar action.

The FBI raids offices every day of the week. Lawyers offices a little less often, but mob lawyers and cartel lawyers see this type of action fairly regularly. Why is this different?

Jack and DP said:

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PartyBear said:

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If only it was that minor a situation.

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So what is the situation? You have no idea.

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That's what the coup plotters do -- totally confuse the situation to keep us patriots off-base. When we wake up tomorrow all the road signs will have been moved.

Here is an analysis from Randall Eliason, who teaches white collar criminal law at George Washington Univ. Law School:

When your lawyers need lawyers, it's usually a bad sign. When your lawyers have their offices and homes raided, it's a really bad sign. News that federal investigators on Monday took the extraordinary step of executing a search warrant at the legal office of Michael Cohen, President Trump's longtime personal attorney, indicates that Cohen is suddenly in serious legal jeopardy of his own. And although the investigation is not directly related to the Mueller probe, it's yet another example of the legal walls closing in on one of the people closest to Trump someone who may have a wealth of information about the president's own conduct.

The FBI executed the search warrants at Cohen's New York office and his home and hotel room. The warrants were obtained by federal prosecutors in the Southern District of New York. According to a statement from Cohen's attorney, prosecutors informed him their investigation is, "in part," based on a referral from special counsel Robert S. Mueller III.

The first thing to note about this striking development is that the warrant was not obtained by Mueller himself. Whatever the subject matter of this particular investigation, it apparently falls outside of Mueller's jurisdiction and thus resulted in his referral to the New York prosecutors. So we know the potential crimes that led to the search today do not directly relate to Mueller's inquiry into any conspiracy with Russians to influence the election or related crimes such as obstruction of the special counsel's investigation.

We also know that a search warrant, unlike a grand jury subpoena, requires prosecutors to go before a federal judge to demonstrate probable cause that a crime has been committed and evidence of that crime can be found in the premises to be searched. Before approving a search of a lawyer's office, a judge would want to be satisfied that there was some substance behind the prosecutors' allegations. This is not just some prosecutorial fishing expedition; it bears the imprimatur of a federal judge.

We don't know for certain the nature of the Southern District's investigation. The potential crime outside of Mueller's jurisdiction to which Cohen has been linked most directly relates to the $130,000 payoff to porn star Stormy Daniels just days before the presidential election. If Cohen made that payment himself or facilitated the payment from another individual or company, it could be deemed an illegal contribution to Trump's campaign. There could be other alleged offenses, such as tax or bank fraud violations, surrounding any such payments as well. Or there could be other non-Stormy-Daniels-related allegations about Cohen's conduct that have not yet surfaced publicly.

This was not just any search warrant; that the raid took place at a lawyer's office further highlights the seriousness of the investigation. Searches of an attorney's office are extremely rare and are not favored, due to their potential to impinge on the attorney-client relationship. Prosecutors must jump through multiple hoops to get such a warrant approved, both within their own office and at the criminal division of Main Justice. (Notably, this would likely have included approval by Trump's own guy, the new interim U.S. attorney for the Southern District, Geoffrey S. Berman, who was just appointed by Attorney General Jeff Sessions this past January.)

Prosecutors are also required to consider less intrusive alternatives to a search warrant, such as a subpoena, if practical. Approval of a search warrant suggests prosecutors were able to demonstrate not only the gravity of the potential case but also the risk that evidence might be destroyed or otherwise go missing if they pursued a less aggressive option.

Cohen, and perhaps the president, will likely argue that this raid violates the attorney-client privilege. Indeed, on Monday evening, Trump said it was "a disgrace what's going on." In a search like this, prosecutors typically set up a privilege team or "taint team" of investigators not involved in the case to review potentially privileged documents and shield those from the team actually involved in the prosecution. There is an exception to the attorney-client privilege if communications to an attorney are used in furtherance of a crime or fraud; that could come into play here as well. And documents related to anything Cohen did on his own after all, Trump has denied knowing about the payment to Daniels are likely not privileged if they do not contain attorney-client communications. Documents are not automatically privileged simply because they passed through an attorney's hands.

There may well be litigation concerning whether particular records seized during this search are protected by privilege. But seizing the records now allows prosecutors to ensure that the integrity of the evidence is maintained while those legal issues are sorted out.

Cohen, someone extremely close to Trump and who has been known as the president's "fixer," appears to have serious legal problems. If federal prosecutors feel they have enough on you to execute a search warrant, it's never a good sign just ask Paul Manafort. And to the extent that Cohen, part of Trump's innermost circle, might have knowledge relevant to Mueller's inquiry, we can't rule out the possibility that his own legal troubles could induce him to cooperate in the Russia investigation.

Hold on tight it's only Monday.

fubar said:

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It's a coup. Nothing less.

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lets hope so, would prove at least someone in America has some common sense

What an honest flaming liberal has to say about today. Liberals on this board will have to look up that H word it would appear.



This is a tipping point, as you liberals would be burning bras if the the FBI had raided the Clinton servers or the Obama radicalized IRS.

Mothra said:

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bubbadog said:

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Apparently, it is Cohen (not Trump) who is being investigated. It involves possible bank fraud and campaign finance violations.

---

And an interesting by product - which I am sure they haven't thought of at all - is they may find some dirt on Trump. However, I thought they said that they were also looking for evidence of Cohen's involvement with Daniels and his communications with Trump regarding same. If that is the case, that doesn't seem to have anything to do with bank fraud or campaign finance violations.

Count me as one who finds the raid suspicious and potentially setting a dangerous precedent. As an attorney, the FBI raiding my files full of attorney-client communications would be quite troubling. While I am underwhelmed with Mueller's investigation thus far, I see why it is necessary. However, this has a very different feel. This seems almost like a witch hunt.

---

Trump doesn't understand that you can't fight everyone. So, when you pick fight after fight, it opens up fronts you can't defend.

Assume he agreed the Russians attacked our elections (or disagreed) and/ but actively pursued actions to protect the homeland, he'd have prevented this front from opening up. Instead, he attacks the FBI in a country where everything is illegal.

And he's dirty. (He pays porn stars, skirts taxes, illegally trades with Russians, skirts his financial obligations, cheats on his wives, lies, calls people and says he's someone else).

When they come after you, it's often just "doing their job".

Even when it's personal.

DaveyBear said:

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You are full of crap Fube.

Name a similar action.

1 similar action.

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So you think this is a good coup?

Mothra said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Apparently, it is Cohen (not Trump) who is being investigated. It involves possible bank fraud and campaign finance violations.

---

And an interesting by product - which I am sure they haven't thought of at all - is they may find some dirt on Trump. However, I thought they said that they were also looking for evidence of Cohen's involvement with Daniels and his communications with Trump regarding same. If that is the case, that doesn't seem to have anything to do with bank fraud or campaign finance violations.

Count me as one who finds the raid suspicious and potentially setting a dangerous precedent. As an attorney, the FBI raiding my files full of attorney-client communications would be quite troubling. While I am underwhelmed with Mueller's investigation thus far, I see why it is necessary. However, this has a very different feel. This seems almost like a witch hunt.

---

Trump may have waived atty/client privilege when he said "talk to my lawyer." I think that is shaky but it is being floated.

tommie said:

---

Mothra said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Apparently, it is Cohen (not Trump) who is being investigated. It involves possible bank fraud and campaign finance violations.

---

And an interesting by product - which I am sure they haven't thought of at all - is they may find some dirt on Trump. However, I thought they said that they were also looking for evidence of Cohen's involvement with Daniels and his communications with Trump regarding same. If that is the case, that doesn't seem to have anything to do with bank fraud or campaign finance violations.

Count me as one who finds the raid suspicious and potentially setting a dangerous precedent. As an attorney, the FBI raiding my files full of attorney-client communications would be quite troubling. While I am underwhelmed with Mueller's investigation thus far, I see why it is necessary. However, this has a very different feel. This seems almost like a witch hunt.

---

Trump doesn't understand that you can't fight everyone. So, when you pick fight after fight, it opens up fronts you can't defend.

Assume he agreed the Russians attacked our elections (or disagreed) and/ but actively pursued actions to protect the homeland, he'd have prevented this front from opening up. Instead, he attacks the FBI in a country where everything is illegal.

And he's dirty. (He pays porn stars, skirts taxes, illegally trades with Russians, skirts his financial obligations, cheats on his wives, lies, calls people and says he's someone else).

When they come after you, it's often just "doing their job".

Even when it's personal.

---

The FBI, or the EPA, for that matter doesn't need to get "personal". It's dangerous for our country for the FBI, IRS, etc to get personal.

cms186 said:

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fubar said:

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It's a coup. Nothing less.

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lets hope so, would prove at least someone in America has some common sense

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Says the guy whose government might arrest him tomorrow for slicing a tomato.

Attorney-Client privilege works here:


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2018/01/04/the-democrats-bizarre-it-scandal-gets-another-deferment/amp/

Booray said:

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The FBI raids offices every day of the week. Lawyers offices a little less often, but mob lawyers and cartel lawyers see this type of action fairly regularly. Why is this different?

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Lawyers offices don't get raided often, and lawyer's offices that represent the president are even more rare. That is why this is different.

quash said:

---

Mothra said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Apparently, it is Cohen (not Trump) who is being investigated. It involves possible bank fraud and campaign finance violations.

---

And an interesting by product - which I am sure they haven't thought of at all - is they may find some dirt on Trump. However, I thought they said that they were also looking for evidence of Cohen's involvement with Daniels and his communications with Trump regarding same. If that is the case, that doesn't seem to have anything to do with bank fraud or campaign finance violations.

Count me as one who finds the raid suspicious and potentially setting a dangerous precedent. As an attorney, the FBI raiding my files full of attorney-client communications would be quite troubling. While I am underwhelmed with Mueller's investigation thus far, I see why it is necessary. However, this has a very different feel. This seems almost like a witch hunt.

---

Trump may have waived atty/client privilege when he said "talk to my lawyer." I think that is shaky but it is being floated.

---

Shaky indeed. If that were the case, everyone who has ever sat for a deposition would have waived privilege.

"Sir, what did you do today to prepare for your deposition?"

"I talked to my lawyer."

"Gotcha! Now reveal to me everything your lawyer said!"

I don't think so.

So has the dust settled? All the coups I have read about end with a new leader or the losing usurpers being hung or beheaded. Is it in with the new and out with old or have heads rolled?

tommie said:

---

Mothra said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Apparently, it is Cohen (not Trump) who is being investigated. It involves possible bank fraud and campaign finance violations.

---

And an interesting by product - which I am sure they haven't thought of at all - is they may find some dirt on Trump. However, I thought they said that they were also looking for evidence of Cohen's involvement with Daniels and his communications with Trump regarding same. If that is the case, that doesn't seem to have anything to do with bank fraud or campaign finance violations.

Count me as one who finds the raid suspicious and potentially setting a dangerous precedent. As an attorney, the FBI raiding my files full of attorney-client communications would be quite troubling. While I am underwhelmed with Mueller's investigation thus far, I see why it is necessary. However, this has a very different feel. This seems almost like a witch hunt.

---

Trump doesn't understand that you can't fight everyone. So, when you pick fight after fight, it opens up fronts you can't defend.

Assume he agreed the Russians attacked our elections (or disagreed) and/ but actively pursued actions to protect the homeland, he'd have prevented this front from opening up. Instead, he attacks the FBI in a country where everything is illegal.

And he's dirty. (He pays porn stars, skirts taxes, illegally trades with Russians, skirts his financial obligations, cheats on his wives, lies, calls people and says he's someone else).

When they come after you, it's often just "doing their job".

Even when it's personal.

---

In other words, it is a politically motivated witch hunt.

Look, Trump is a buffoon, and I shake my head at most of his stupid antics. But that doesn't mean this doesn't set a dangerous precedent.

BaylorOkie said:

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cms186 said:

---

fubar said:

---

It's a coup. Nothing less.

---

lets hope so, would prove at least someone in America has some common sense

---

Says the guy whose government might arrest him tomorrow for slicing a tomato.

---

erm, can i have some of what youve been smoking?

They can steal all the documents relating to his entire legal and business history, from his own lawyer! What's next, will they raid his doctors office and seize his medical records? Not to mention they are going to leak it all.

Let's keep in mind that the FBI allowed HRC and associates to have attorneys present, basically choose what questions they'd answer, were allowed to destroy equipment, submitting whichever emails they chose, and they were **all granted ****ing immunity.**

we need to keep a very close eye on this. it's not a game; for almost a year (or more) we have known and seen the evidence that some of our domestic intelligence and law enforcement agencies have been weaponized for use against political opponents. on the face of it, this is looking a lot like more of the same.

In any event, i'm down with escalation. i genuinely hope they keep going. because it will likely be the harbinger to the greatest happening of all ****ing time.

Mothra said:

---

tommie said:

---

Mothra said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Apparently, it is Cohen (not Trump) who is being investigated. It involves possible bank fraud and campaign finance violations.

---

And an interesting by product - which I am sure they haven't thought of at all - is they may find some dirt on Trump. However, I thought they said that they were also looking for evidence of Cohen's involvement with Daniels and his communications with Trump regarding same. If that is the case, that doesn't seem to have anything to do with bank fraud or campaign finance violations.

Count me as one who finds the raid suspicious and potentially setting a dangerous precedent. As an attorney, the FBI raiding my files full of attorney-client communications would be quite troubling. While I am underwhelmed with Mueller's investigation thus far, I see why it is necessary. However, this has a very different feel. This seems almost like a witch hunt.

---

Trump doesn't understand that you can't fight everyone. So, when you pick fight after fight, it opens up fronts you can't defend.

Assume he agreed the Russians attacked our elections (or disagreed) and/ but actively pursued actions to protect the homeland, he'd have prevented this front from opening up. Instead, he attacks the FBI in a country where everything is illegal.

And he's dirty. (He pays porn stars, skirts taxes, illegally trades with Russians, skirts his financial obligations, cheats on his wives, lies, calls people and says he's someone else).

When they come after you, it's often just "doing their job".

Even when it's personal.

---

In other words, it is a politically motivated witch hunt.

Look, Trump is a buffoon, and I shake my head at most of his stupid antics. But that doesn't mean this doesn't set a dangerous precedent.

---

The precedent was set in the 90s by Kenn Starr. He investigated 15yr old land deals and ended up impeaching a sitting POTUS over an affair. Starr even threatened Lewinsky with jail-time to force her to testify against Clinton. Now we have a POTUS credibly accused of espionage against the United States and y'all are griping about the investigation being too aggressive and "setting precedents". People that paid attention to the supposedly "fake news" about Trump and his associates have been laying out how this would probably go since it started, so y'all can drop the surprise act at any time.

Doc Holliday said:

---

They can steal all the documents relating to his entire legal and business history, from his own lawyer! What's next, will they raid his doctors office and seize his medical records? Not to mention they are going to leak it all.

Let's keep in mind that the FBI allowed HRC and associates to have attorneys present, basically choose what questions they'd answer, were allowed to destroy equipment, submitting whichever emails they chose, and they were **all granted ****ing immunity.**

we need to keep a very close eye on this. it's not a game; for almost a year (or more) we have known and seen the evidence that some of our domestic intelligence and law enforcement agencies have been weaponized for use against political opponents. on the face of it, this is looking a lot like more of the same.

In any event, i'm down with escalation. i genuinely hope they keep going. because it will likely be the harbinger to the greatest happening of all ****ing time.

---

We know no such thing, you assume those premises. I've been saying for a while now that y'all had a rude awakening coming when real life comes to slap away the alternate reality you Trump supporters have been living in. Get ready, cause it's only gonna get rougher for Trump as time (and Mueller) marches on.

Booray said:

---

The FBI raids offices every day of the week. Lawyers offices a little less often, but mob lawyers and cartel lawyers see this type of action fairly regularly. Why is this different?

---

While not an everyday occurrence, the seizure of attorney-client communications and attorney work product does happen with some regularity. Whether that is constitutional or wise practice is a good question. This U. Of Chicago law review note argues it is not: https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5306&context=uclrev

But if the president wants to argue that the FBI should not search his lawyers office he has three options. First, that lawyers should always be off limits. If so, that argument has to apply to lawyers for drug dealers and illegal immigration rings just as much as to Michael Cohen. Better be careful there.

Second, that lawyer searches deserve the high degree of protection they are given and that the FBI and justice ignored that standard here because of political motivations. As many people have pointed out, however, the warrant was vetted by Trump appointees in the SDNY and approved by a federal judge. Hard to see the argument on the surface although anything is possible.

Third, that the president's personal lawyer should be off limits because he is the president's personal lawyer. But the president is not above the law, particularly with regard to activities before he came to the White House.

All that said, it would take some serious stones to ask a federal judge for a search warrant like this and for that judge to issue the warrant. Michael Cohen is in trouble for something.