Yup. Good post.twd74 said:The parallel is that, while extra-marital sex is not a crime, men and women will often get caught in all manner of criminal activity to avoid disclosure. It was Clinton lying about his relations, and Trump's Lawyer providing hush money to cover a story that was already out, that has led to further investigations. No worries about a coup, I have been thinking for more that a year that Mueller will not actually get the evidence against Trump; what is likely to happen is a number of people close to Trump are going to be in courtrooms for the next couple of years. Mr. Cohen's illustrious lawyering days may be numbered. None of this rises to the level of Impeachment: not even close in my view.Doc Holliday said:
There's a massive difference between Clinton/Monica and Trump/Stormy.
Clinton got sucked off in the oval office and used his mere presence of being the president as a way to get away with it. And he lied about it to the entire nation under oath.
Trump banged a porn star over a decade ago while he wasn't married. And everyone already knows Trump is a playboy billionaire whose probably slept with hundreds if not thousands of women.
But this investigation is a fishing expedition. It is designed for parallel construction.
It has nothing to do with Russia or collusion.
Its there for midterms.
The Coup Is Underway: FBI Raids Office of Trump Lawyer Michael Cohen
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200 Replies |
Last: 6 yr ago by Jack and DP
Judicial Watch is pro-TRUTH
a real Libertarian's wet dream
a real Libertarian's wet dream
So, exactly who is leading the coup?
Jack and DP said:tommie said:Mothra said:And an interesting by product - which I am sure they haven't thought of at all - is they may find some dirt on Trump. However, I thought they said that they were also looking for evidence of Cohen's involvement with Daniels and his communications with Trump regarding same. If that is the case, that doesn't seem to have anything to do with bank fraud or campaign finance violations.bubbadog said:
Apparently, it is Cohen (not Trump) who is being investigated. It involves possible bank fraud and campaign finance violations.
Count me as one who finds the raid suspicious and potentially setting a dangerous precedent. As an attorney, the FBI raiding my files full of attorney-client communications would be quite troubling. While I am underwhelmed with Mueller's investigation thus far, I see why it is necessary. However, this has a very different feel. This seems almost like a witch hunt.
Trump doesn't understand that you can't fight everyone. So, when you pick fight after fight, it opens up fronts you can't defend.
Assume he agreed the Russians attacked our elections (or disagreed) and/ but actively pursued actions to protect the homeland, he'd have prevented this front from opening up. Instead, he attacks the FBI in a country where everything is illegal.
And he's dirty. (He pays porn stars, skirts taxes, illegally trades with Russians, skirts his financial obligations, cheats on his wives, lies, calls people and says he's someone else).
When they come after you, it's often just "doing their job".
Even when it's personal.
The FBI, or the EPA, for that matter doesn't need to get "personal". It's dangerous for our country for the FBI, IRS, etc to get personal.
They don't get personal. They get legal.
It exists to sue the Clintons. That's its only purpose.corncob pipe said:
Judicial Watch is pro-TRUTH
a real Libertarian's wet dream
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/clintons-fbi-interview-what-was-cheryl-mills-doing-there/
Hillary had attorney client privilege for people who weren't even attorneys.
Hillary had attorney client privilege for people who weren't even attorneys.
Is it true that Hillary is the POTUS on Fox News?
This has nothing whatsoever to do with Secretary Clinton or President Barry. This all Trumps, nothing else. Y'all quit that crap.
You mean, Doc's post actually have a relationship with facts?quash said:bubbadog said:Well yeah, but other than the fact that he worked for the Trump campaign and spoke up in campaign meetings about his connections with the Russians, how could that possibly have anything to do with the Trump campaign and Russia?quash said:Doc Holliday said:Ok so show me what indictments are based on or pertaining directly to the election.quash said:Doc Holliday said:Related to the campaign/election: ZERO.quash said:Doc Holliday said:
There's a massive difference between Clinton/Monica and Trump/Stormy.
Clinton got sucked off in the oval office and used his mere presence of being the president as a way to get away with it. And he lied about it to the entire nation under oath.
Trump banged a porn star over a decade ago while he wasn't married. And everyone already knows Trump is a playboy billionaire whose probably slept with hundreds if not thousands of women.
But this investigation is a fishing expedition. It is designed for parallel construction.
It has nothing to do with Russia or collusion.
Its there for midterms.
I asked you this before and you didn't answer: how many indictment/convictions by Starr/Mueller?
Wrong.
Let's just jump to convictions: Papadopoulos.
No waiting, Doc, the facts preceded your post.
How would you know about the truth or real Libertarianism, being as how you and your merry band of alt-picks are devout Trumpies who still believe there's a brain under the toup despite scientific evidence that also proves climate change is real.corncob pipe said:
Judicial Watch is pro-TRUTH
a real Libertarian's wet dream
Here's your next move: Hire a bunch of Aggie grad students to confirm evident there's no intelligent life left in Trump's admin or among the porn-agains who think WWJD justifies voting for this a$$hat.
Didn't Guliani say the NY Office of the FBI was virulently anti Hillary and very pro Trump?riflebear said:
Count me as panicked. The FBI & NYC officials who are so anti Trump it's incredible just seized info from Trump's attorney who has been intimately involved w/ him and his businesses for years. They used the Stormy stuff to open up a whole new bag of who knows what. We all know NYC prosecutors can't stand Trump and now they also have all his attorney's personal info on his businesses. This is getting crazy and as we all know never should have been started in the first place because of fake info. This all should be happening against Clinton & her foundation but somehow (and give the liberals credit) they were able to use their unethical zero character positions to manipulate everyone into going after Trump.
Go after any billionaire's attorney client privilege and you will never have another businessman run for office again.
Under oath is the key. I never thought Clinton's lying about affairs was in the spirit of perjury charges, but by the letter of the law, it is perjury. As someone else said in this thread, you don't necessarily need a true crime to impeach a president, but have a crime sure does help. And lying alone about an affair isn't a crime, but lying under oath or possible campaign finance charges would certainly be enough. We shall see.PartyBear said:
The precedent for impeachment set in the Clinton case is pretty low actually. If denying an affair is impeachable (and it is now precedent) then I'm absolutly sure Mueller has a hell of alot more than that. Hell Trump's tweets are practically a prima facie case of obstruction just right there. I sense this is not going to end well at all for Trump and he may take the party down with him.
And Mueller has no interest in asking Trump about sex outside of marriage under oath to see if he denies adultery. He already has real stuff he is working on.
The Whitewater investigation started in 1994 and ended with a final report in 2000. It resulted in 12 convictions. Trumpgate is barely a year old. There are nearly 20 guilty pleas and indictments, including his national security advisor, campaign manager, 13 Russian nationals, etc. No one in their right mind would think that Trump is somehow the poor, mistreated innocent in this one. Mueller is known for his honesty and integrity. Trump is a known liar, with ties to organized crime and the Russian mob. He was in the casino business in Atlantic City and was in RE in the New York area and people on this board think that he's Mother Theresa....Johnny Bear said:Wrong.HuMcK said:
The precedent was set in the 90s by Kenn Starr. He investigated 15yr old land deals and ended up impeaching a sitting POTUS over an affair. Starr even threatened Lewinsky with jail-time to force her to testify against Clinton. Now we have a POTUS credibly accused of espionage against the United States and y'all are griping about the investigation being too aggressive and "setting precedents". People that paid attention to the supposedly "fake news" about Trump and his associates have been laying out how this would probably go since it started, so y'all can drop the surprise act at any time.
Starr's investigation ended with a detailed report about obstruction of justice and perjury committed by a sitting POTUS - Bill Clinton. It wasn't about "an affair" - the evidence relating to the affair was a means to the end of proving the obstruction and perjury cases. Congratulations on memorizing that talking point, however.
As far as presently having a POTUS "credibly accused of espionage against the United States" - after about a year and a half of an exhaustive investigation cheered on by MSM hacks and liberals like you literally dying for anything to prove the wholly made up accusation of Russian collusion, there is still not one shred of evidence that it happened. Zip. Zilch. Narryin. Notta.
Mueller didn't do it.Jack and DP said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
Dershowitz is whining?
who saw that coming?
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always."
Mahatma Gandhi
Mahatma Gandhi
I'll bet you $10,000 that it is not overturned on Constitutional grounds. Because it is not unconstitutional. Period. In case you did not know, Dershowitz was OJ's and Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer. He will say anything and do anything. And represent anyone, from murderers to pedophiles ...to Trump. I guess that there's a certain consistency in his client base .....Jack and DP said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
Perhaps Dershowitz doesn't realize there was a warrant for the the things seized.
Henry Gondorff said:I'll bet you $10,000 that it is not overturned on Constitutional grounds. Because it is not unconstitutional. Period. In case you did not know, Dershowitz was OJ's and Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer. He will say anything and do anything. And represent anyone, from murderers to pedophiles ...to Trump. I guess that there's a certain consistency in his client base .....Jack and DP said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
And Harvard Law and all that little stuff.
https://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/directory/10210/Dershowitz
Non sequitur. There is nothing in my statements of fact that is logically refuted by your statement.Jack and DP said:Henry Gondorff said:I'll bet you $10,000 that it is not overturned on Constitutional grounds. Because it is not unconstitutional. Period. In case you did not know, Dershowitz was OJ's and Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer. He will say anything and do anything. And represent anyone, from murderers to pedophiles ...to Trump. I guess that there's a certain consistency in his client base .....Jack and DP said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
And Harvard Law and all that little stuff.
https://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/directory/10210/Dershowitz
Further, if you are so confident, take my 10,000 bet.....
Are you saying that Dershowitz is on retainer by Trump (or affiliated organization)? Please provide evidence of this instead of throwing baseless accusations.Henry Gondorff said:I'll bet you $10,000 that it is not overturned on Constitutional grounds. Because it is not unconstitutional. Period. In case you did not know, Dershowitz was OJ's and Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer. He will say anything and do anything. And represent anyone, from murderers to pedophiles ...to Trump. I guess that there's a certain consistency in his client base .....Jack and DP said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
Seems like Dershowitz my be the last intellectually honest democrat/liberal. The second to last was Moynihan.
In case you're confused, you may want to look up the word honest as well. It will help you in future discussions for people wanting to take you seriously.
Jack and DP said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
Because Dershowitz?
Laf.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Pat Neff said:Are you saying that Dershowitz is on retainer by Trump (or affiliated organization)? Please provide evidence of this instead of throwing baseless accusations.Henry Gondorff said:I'll bet you $10,000 that it is not overturned on Constitutional grounds. Because it is not unconstitutional. Period. In case you did not know, Dershowitz was OJ's and Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer. He will say anything and do anything. And represent anyone, from murderers to pedophiles ...to Trump. I guess that there's a certain consistency in his client base .....Jack and DP said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
Seems like Dershowitz my be the last intellectually honest democrat/liberal. The second to last was Moynihan.
In case you're confused, you may want to look up the word honest as well. It will help you in future discussions for people wanting to take you seriously.
Intellectually honest, like a broken clock. When it agrees with your watch. For 60 seconds st a time.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Oh, yeah, he's real honest. Two letters for you.... OJ. Yep, he helped get OJ off the hook through dishonestly casting doubt on iron-clad evidence and by helping concoct a lie that the LA police Dept framed freaking OJ. Yep, a real man of principle, that Alan Dershowitz! And, yes, of given the chance, he will represent Trump, just like he represented OJ.... LOLPat Neff said:Are you saying that Dershowitz is on retainer by Trump (or affiliated organization)? Please provide evidence of this instead of throwing baseless accusations.Henry Gondorff said:I'll bet you $10,000 that it is not overturned on Constitutional grounds. Because it is not unconstitutional. Period. In case you did not know, Dershowitz was OJ's and Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer. He will say anything and do anything. And represent anyone, from murderers to pedophiles ...to Trump. I guess that there's a certain consistency in his client base .....Jack and DP said:
Ihttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
Seems like Dershowitz my be the last intellectually honest democrat/liberal. The second to last was Moynihan.
In case you're confused, you may want to look up the word honest as well. It will help you in future discussions for people wanting to take you seriously.
quash said:Jack and DP said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
Because Dershowitz?
Laf.
Yale law degree and a law professor at Harvard since his 20's. I'm not a lawyer like yourself, but that seems to be impressive credentials.
What's ironic is the same people that so easily discount Dershowitz give Gloria Allred the benefit of the doubt. Amazing. Another example of confirmation bias.Henry Gondorff said:Oh, yeah, he's real honest. Two letters for you.... OJ. Yep, he helped get OJ off the hook through dishonestly casting doubt on iron-clad evidence and by helping concoct a lie that the LA police Dept framed freaking OJ. Yep, a real man of principle, that Alan Dershowitz! And, yes, of given the chance, he will represent Trump, just like he represented OJ.... LOLPat Neff said:Are you saying that Dershowitz is on retainer by Trump (or affiliated organization)? Please provide evidence of this instead of throwing baseless accusations.Henry Gondorff said:I'll bet you $10,000 that it is not overturned on Constitutional grounds. Because it is not unconstitutional. Period. In case you did not know, Dershowitz was OJ's and Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer. He will say anything and do anything. And represent anyone, from murderers to pedophiles ...to Trump. I guess that there's a certain consistency in his client base .....Jack and DP said:
Ihttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
Seems like Dershowitz my be the last intellectually honest democrat/liberal. The second to last was Moynihan.
In case you're confused, you may want to look up the word honest as well. It will help you in future discussions for people wanting to take you seriously.
Yep, he got OJ off the hook through concocting a lie and discrediting iron clad evidence. Impressive. And, yes, I guess Harvard (and you) are impressed by things like his defense of OJ. He will say or do anything and represent the most reprehensible, such as OJ or Trump (no, he does not represent Trump now but he would, when a lot of self respecting attorneys won't). In short, he lies just like Trump and sees no problem in it. He's perfect for HLS, OJ and Trump.Jack and DP said:quash said:Jack and DP said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
Because Dershowitz?
Laf.
Yale law degree and a law professor at Harvard since his 20's. I'm not a lawyer like yourself, but that seems to be impressive credentials.
And, again, if you are SO confident that this liar is right about the unconstitutionality, then take my bet. You won't. Because we both know that he's lying here, just like he lied for OJ. He throws out lies to gain attention. Just like Trump..... That's their game.....they are perfect for one another, though even Trump may have trouble hiring the man who sprung OJ....
Gloria Allred is every bit as bad and reprehensible as Dershowitz and that is saying something. She's vile..... and, Bill Clinton was a liar and perjurer as well. I am consistent in my complete disdain for these people (liars like Trump, Allred, Clinton, Dershowitz) and do not see one liar as different given his/her politics, like most on this board.....Bona Fide Bear said:What's ironic is the same people that so easily discount Dershowitz give Gloria Allred the benefit of the doubt. Amazing. Another example of confirmation bias.Henry Gondorff said:Oh, yeah, he's real honest. Two letters for you.... OJ. Yep, he helped get OJ off the hook through dishonestly casting doubt on iron-clad evidence and by helping concoct a lie that the LA police Dept framed freaking OJ. Yep, a real man of principle, that Alan Dershowitz! And, yes, of given the chance, he will represent Trump, just like he represented OJ.... LOLPat Neff said:Are you saying that Dershowitz is on retainer by Trump (or affiliated organization)? Please provide evidence of this instead of throwing baseless accusations.Henry Gondorff said:I'll bet you $10,000 that it is not overturned on Constitutional grounds. Because it is not unconstitutional. Period. In case you did not know, Dershowitz was OJ's and Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer. He will say anything and do anything. And represent anyone, from murderers to pedophiles ...to Trump. I guess that there's a certain consistency in his client base .....Jack and DP said:
I MIhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
Seems like Dershowitz my be the last intellectually honest democrat/liberal. The second to last was Moynihan.
In case you're confused, you may want to look up the word honest as well. It will help you in future discussions for people wanting to take you seriously.
Bona Fide Bear said:What's ironic is the same people that so easily discount Dershowitz give Gloria Allred the benefit of the doubt. Amazing. Another example of confirmation bias.Henry Gondorff said:Oh, yeah, he's real honest. Two letters for you.... OJ. Yep, he helped get OJ off the hook through dishonestly casting doubt on iron-clad evidence and by helping concoct a lie that the LA police Dept framed freaking OJ. Yep, a real man of principle, that Alan Dershowitz! And, yes, of given the chance, he will represent Trump, just like he represented OJ.... LOLPat Neff said:Are you saying that Dershowitz is on retainer by Trump (or affiliated organization)? Please provide evidence of this instead of throwing baseless accusations.Henry Gondorff said:I'll bet you $10,000 that it is not overturned on Constitutional grounds. Because it is not unconstitutional. Period. In case you did not know, Dershowitz was OJ's and Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer. He will say anything and do anything. And represent anyone, from murderers to pedophiles ...to Trump. I guess that there's a certain consistency in his client base .....Jack and DP said:
Ihttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
Seems like Dershowitz my be the last intellectually honest democrat/liberal. The second to last was Moynihan.
In case you're confused, you may want to look up the word honest as well. It will help you in future discussions for people wanting to take you seriously.
So you're not seeing any confirmation bias when Trumpers suddenly discover a Harvard liberal known for bomb throwing?
And did Gondorff ever, anywhere, say anything about Allred?
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Did you know that not all attorney-client communication is privileged? One example is communication involving a crime or the coverup of a crime.Jack and DP said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5601007/Mueller-violated-Michael-Cohens-constitutional-rights-just-seizing-records-says-Dershowitz.html
Unconstitutional
Nunez said congress will hold impeachment on Wray and Rosenstein tomorrow if they do not turn over the EC origination documents.
Doc Holliday said:
Nunez said congress will hold impeachment on Wray and Rosenstein tomorrow if they do not turn over the EC origination documents.
They're scared ****less. Trump must be desperate to know what they have on him if he's gonna have Nunes force the issue in an ongoing investigation like this. Seriously, in what world is it appropriate for Nunes to be demanding docs that form the basis of an investigation that hasn't finished yet?
They are scared Shxtless and Nunez is using his congressional position to assist in obstruction. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up in trouble. He has been a blatant idiot in this to the point he has made himself a party.
Nunez is a joke. There is NO basis for impeaching either and he stated none. They are following the rule of law rather than directives from Trump. This hardly is an impeachable offense, and there are not enough Trumpists to impeach them. Trump can fire them, however, which may well happen. Trumpism is your credo, which is a full fledged belief in Trump over everything else. I doubt it will last but it is doing lasting damage, just like the last liar who held the seat - Clinton.Doc Holliday said:
Nunez said congress will hold impeachment on Wray and Rosenstein tomorrow if they do not turn over the EC origination documents.
As for Nunez, he will be in the seat for less than a year. Regrettably, the Republican Party has gone all in on Trumpism, and will lose the house this fall. The long term consequences may be good, namely a return of the traditional Republican Party, though I doubt it. We will be governed by the extremes, liars like Trump, Nunez and Cruz or liars like Warren, Pelosi and Schumer. Certainly a great fall from Lincoln ....