http://bit.ly/2jnpvvb
Taxes, welfare, jobs, assimilation, crime, etc. All backed by research.

My favorite: "As the late labor historian (and immigration restrictionist) Vernon M. Briggs Jr. wrote, " Government grows the fastest when immigration is the most restricted, and it slows dramatically when the borders are more open."

Do you realize these facts fly in the face of the anecdotal evidence so many here are so fond of posting?

Crash Davis said:

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I've always enjoyed Alex Nowrasteh's work. I remember reading the original article on FEE's website a few years ago.

Immigration is easily one of the biggest bogeyman of our current political narrative.

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Current and often past. This is not anew issue.

Booray said:

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Crash Davis said:

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I've always enjoyed Alex Nowrasteh's work. I remember reading the original article on FEE's website a few years ago.

Immigration is easily one of the biggest bogeyman of our current political narrative.

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Current and often past. This is not anew issue.

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Very true, but the rhetoric has been cyclical.

And speaking of bogeymen, look at the quality work coming out of the Cato Institute...those evil Koch brothers!

Canada2017 said:

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Guess the thousands of Americans who have been the victims of rape, robbery, burglary, gang violence, car theft and murder by illegals are only anecdotal evidence .

But hey cancer kills 'more ' so it's all cool.

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Did you read the article or just my post?

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Guess the thousands of Americans who have been the victims of rape, robbery, burglary, gang violence, car theft and murder by illegals are only anecdotal evidence .



But hey cancer kills 'more ' so it's all cool.

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Did you read the article or just my post?

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Both

So you understand Americans commit the violent crimes you mentioned at a rate higher than illegals?

https://www.dps.texas.gov/administration/crime_records/pages/txCriminalAlienStatistics.htm

Here is the link to your info.

How does it compare to Texas citizens?

From the article you said you read.



A recent finding on this issue shows that illegal immigration is not correlated with violent crime rates nor is it causal. Data limitations on the federal government force researchers to estimate the incarcerated illegal immigrant population using the residual estimation methodwhich finds that illegal immigrants are much less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans but more likely than legal immigrants. The state of Texas actually recorded arrests and convictions for specific crimes by the immigration status of the arrestee and convict. In 2015 in Texas, there were 1,794 convictions against natives per 100,000 natives, 782 convictions of illegal immigrants for every 100,000 illegal immigrants, and only 262 convictions of legal immigrants per 100,000 of them. For all but four crimes that accounted for 0.18 percent of all criminal convictions in Texas in 2015, there were fewer convictions against illegal immigrant than against natives. The year 2016 shows even lower criminal conviction rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives in Texas.



As far as Trexas goes, the higher the immigrant rate in a city, the lower the crime rate. El Paso is used as an example.

bearassnekkid said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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https://www.dps.texas.gov/administration/crime_records/pages/txCriminalAlienStatistics.htm

Here is the link to your info.

How does it compare to Texas citizens?

From the article you said you read.



A recent finding on this issue shows that illegal immigration is not correlated with violent crime rates nor is it causal. Data limitations on the federal government force researchers to estimate the incarcerated illegal immigrant population using the residual estimation methodwhich finds that illegal immigrants are much less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans but more likely than legal immigrants. The state of Texas actually recorded arrests and convictions for specific crimes by the immigration status of the arrestee and convict. In 2015 in Texas, there were 1,794 convictions against natives per 100,000 natives, 782 convictions of illegal immigrants for every 100,000 illegal immigrants, and only 262 convictions of legal immigrants per 100,000 of them. For all but four crimes that accounted for 0.18 percent of all criminal convictions in Texas in 2015, there were fewer convictions against illegal immigrant than against natives. The year 2016 shows even lower criminal conviction rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives in Texas.



As far as Trexas goes, the higher the immigrant rate in a city, the lower the crime rate. El Paso is used as an example.

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I'm curious as to what point you think you're making here.

Because what matters is that, according to that chart, there are thousands of crimes being committed in this state that need not be . . . because they were committed by people who had no legal right to be here in the first place.

I could care less which "group" commits a higher number of crimes per capita. I care that crimes are being committed that otherwise wouldn't be but for the fact that the criminals committing them AREN'T EVEN CITIZENS. How about we remove that middle bar altogether? How is that not a good thing?

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Why not eliminate all immigration?

This one is focused solely on Texas:

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/criminal-immigrants-texas-illegal-immigrant

EDIT: never mind. Already linked in limited's post.

Why wouldn't you focus your resources on the highest crime rate group?

bearassnekkid said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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https://www.dps.texas.gov/administration/crime_records/pages/txCriminalAlienStatistics.htm

Here is the link to your info.

How does it compare to Texas citizens?

From the article you said you read.



A recent finding on this issue shows that illegal immigration is not correlated with violent crime rates nor is it causal. Data limitations on the federal government force researchers to estimate the incarcerated illegal immigrant population using the residual estimation methodwhich finds that illegal immigrants are much less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans but more likely than legal immigrants. The state of Texas actually recorded arrests and convictions for specific crimes by the immigration status of the arrestee and convict. In 2015 in Texas, there were 1,794 convictions against natives per 100,000 natives, 782 convictions of illegal immigrants for every 100,000 illegal immigrants, and only 262 convictions of legal immigrants per 100,000 of them. For all but four crimes that accounted for 0.18 percent of all criminal convictions in Texas in 2015, there were fewer convictions against illegal immigrant than against natives. The year 2016 shows even lower criminal conviction rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives in Texas.



As far as Trexas goes, the higher the immigrant rate in a city, the lower the crime rate. El Paso is used as an example.

---

I'm curious as to what point you think you're making here.

Because what matters is that, according to that chart, there are thousands of crimes being committed in this state that need not be . . . because they were committed by people who had no legal right to be here in the first place.

I could care less which "group" commits a higher number of crimes per capita. I care that crimes are being committed that otherwise wouldn't be but for the fact that the criminals committing them AREN'T EVEN CITIZENS. How about we remove that middle bar altogether? How is that not a good thing?

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Eliminating crime is a good thing. But having the state disrupt labor markets that benefit all of us (see the linked article in OP) just to lower crime in one subset that already commits less crime is a waste of resources. And it is statist.

Libertarians for more government

Sounds like a campaign to me

Boomer libertarians 'One race, the human race'

cBUrurenthusism said:

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Libertarians for more government

Sounds like a campaign to me

Boomer libertarians 'One race, the human race'

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They like big government? Sounds like they'll fit right in. About 129 million Americans voted for big government in 2016.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Why wouldn't you focus your resources on the highest crime rate group?

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well if the subject is crime, then that's a great idea. However, the subject, as Quash brought it up is immigration. That being the case, I would agree.

Now, to use you argument of the " highest" group, what would that type of logic look like in trying to save lives? How far down the list would gun control fall?

All I know is I love my Mexican housekeeper of 22 yrs. She helped raise my 2 kids who are now bilingual. She' and her family are part of our family!

Booray said:

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Crash Davis said:

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I've always enjoyed Alex Nowrasteh's work. I remember reading the original article on FEE's website a few years ago.

Immigration is easily one of the biggest bogeyman of our current political narrative.

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Current and often past. This is not anew issue.

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You have a pathological resistance to making a distinction between legal immigration and illegal immigration.

J.R. said:

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All I know is I love my Mexican housekeeper of 22 yrs. She helped raise my 2 kids who are now bilingual. She' and her family are part of our family!

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Is she a legal immigrant?

Malbec said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Why wouldn't you focus your resources on the highest crime rate group?

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100% of illegal immigrants have committed a crime. That WOULD be the highest crime rate group.

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Civil violation, not a crime. Arizona v. United States,
567 U.S. 387 (2012)

Malbec said:

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J.R. said:

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All I know is I love my Mexican housekeeper of 22 yrs. She helped raise my 2 kids who are now bilingual. She' and her family are part of our family!

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Is she a legal immigrant?

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Never asked the question, but doubt it!

Malbec said:

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J.R. said:

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Malbec said:

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J.R. said:

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All I know is I love my Mexican housekeeper of 22 yrs. She helped raise my 2 kids who are now bilingual. She' and her family are part of our family!

---

Is she a legal immigrant?

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Never asked the question, but doubt it!

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You hired a household employee without asking whether they had legal working status? So you must be committing tax fraud also by not paying her withholding tax. I guess I'd be for open borders and amnesty too if I were in your shoes.

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That's a reach. Did I ever say I was for open borders? Tax fraud , my arse! Well, I guess I put her 2 kids through college makes it a wash! You might want to talk to the agricultural industry!

J.R. said:

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Malbec said:

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J.R. said:

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Malbec said:

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J.R. said:

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All I know is I love my Mexican housekeeper of 22 yrs. She helped raise my 2 kids who are now bilingual. She' and her family are part of our family!

---

Is she a legal immigrant?

---

Never asked the question, but doubt it!

---

You hired a household employee without asking whether they had legal working status? So you must be committing tax fraud also by not paying her withholding tax. I guess I'd be for open borders and amnesty too if I were in your shoes.

---

That's a reach. Did I ever say I was for open borders? Tax fraud , my arse! Well, I guess I put her 2 kids through college makes it a wash! You might want to talk to the agricultural industry!

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If what you say is true, I'd do what everybody tells Trump to do.....stop talking!

Malbec said:

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quash said:

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Malbec said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Why wouldn't you focus your resources on the highest crime rate group?

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100% of illegal immigrants have committed a crime. That WOULD be the highest crime rate group.

---

Civil violation, not a crime. Arizona v. United States,
567 U.S. 387 (2012)

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8 U.S. Code 1325 - Improper entry by alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.


The civil penalties noted in Arizona v. United States are in addition to the criminal penalties under 8 U.S. Code 1325, subsection (b), as specified in Title 18.

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That doesn't cover the variety of other means of becoming subject to removal ("illegal") like overstayed visas, etc. Civil.

You can't tell who the criminals are. At which point we are a "show me your papers" society.

As it should be. A person who has overstayed a visa has received at least a minimal level of vetting and is known to have entered the United States. Further, they are known to still be in the country, unless they sneaked out for some reason.

Malbec said:

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J.R. said:

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Malbec said:

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J.R. said:

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Malbec said:

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J.R. said:

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All I know is I love my Mexican housekeeper of 22 yrs. She helped raise my 2 kids who are now bilingual. She' and her family are part of our family!

---

Is she a legal immigrant?

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Never asked the question, but doubt it!

---

You hired a household employee without asking whether they had legal working status? So you must be committing tax fraud also by not paying her withholding tax. I guess I'd be for open borders and amnesty too if I were in your shoes.

---

That's a reach. Did I ever say I was for open borders? Tax fraud , my arse! Well, I guess I put her 2 kids through college makes it a wash! You might want to talk to the agricultural industry!

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If what you say is true, I'd do what everybody tells Trump to do.....stop talking!

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Did I tell you she makes the worlds best tamales? And the much better with beer than some ****ty grape from Argentina

J.R. said:

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Malbec said:

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J.R. said:

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Malbec said:

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J.R. said:

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Malbec said:

---

J.R. said:

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All I know is I love my Mexican housekeeper of 22 yrs. She helped raise my 2 kids who are now bilingual. She' and her family are part of our family!

---

Is she a legal immigrant?

---

Never asked the question, but doubt it!

---

You hired a household employee without asking whether they had legal working status? So you must be committing tax fraud also by not paying her withholding tax. I guess I'd be for open borders and amnesty too if I were in your shoes.

---

That's a reach. Did I ever say I was for open borders? Tax fraud , my arse! Well, I guess I put her 2 kids through college makes it a wash! You might want to talk to the agricultural industry!

---

If what you say is true, I'd do what everybody tells Trump to do.....stop talking!

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Did I tell you she makes the worlds best tamales? And the much better with beer than some ****ty grape from Argentina

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Hey, hey! That's my favorite wine.