Booray said:

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riflebear said:

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Booray said:

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riflebear said:

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Booray said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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Booray said:

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So the concession is that the EU will import soybeans and lng - how much? And what are we giving up?

I like the announcement, but will keep the champaign on ice until the details are clear.

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You are looking at this wrong.

A few more soybean and natural gas sales is way better than the world-wide apocalypse and famine that has been predicted by MSM for a few weeks.

---

Yes it would be. But that is not the question. Trump will sell this as "see how I negotiated us to a better position.
"
What I am wondering, however, is whether Trump is just putting lipstick on the pig. Tell me how we will be better off than before we imposed the sanctions.

Worth noting that POTUS has crafted one other significant international agreement: the de-nuclearization of North Korea. That does not mean North Korea is denuclearized. Likewise, this announcement does not mean we have won on trade.

---

Doesn't matter if it's 2% or 5-40% more in trade, it's better than we had before. Both the EU rep & Trump spoke about their goal was zero tariffs especially on industrial products. The EU rep seemed positive but of course there is a lot of work to do to narrow down the details.

---

It does matter because without knowing the amounts, you have no idea if it is "better than we had before."

Everybody wants 0% tariffs; its a wonderful goal. Call me when it happens.

I am not trivializing this; its a better path than we have been on. I am just leery of Trump's gamesmanship. The substance of his game is often not what it seems.

---

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What has he achieved? Quantify it.

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contrario said:

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Booray said:

---

riflebear said:

---

Booray said:

---

riflebear said:

---

Booray said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

---

Booray said:

---

So the concession is that the EU will import soybeans and lng - how much? And what are we giving up?

I like the announcement, but will keep the champaign on ice until the details are clear.

---

You are looking at this wrong.

A few more soybean and natural gas sales is way better than the world-wide apocalypse and famine that has been predicted by MSM for a few weeks.

---

Yes it would be. But that is not the question. Trump will sell this as "see how I negotiated us to a better position.
"
What I am wondering, however, is whether Trump is just putting lipstick on the pig. Tell me how we will be better off than before we imposed the sanctions.

Worth noting that POTUS has crafted one other significant international agreement: the de-nuclearization of North Korea. That does not mean North Korea is denuclearized. Likewise, this announcement does not mean we have won on trade.

---

Doesn't matter if it's 2% or 5-40% more in trade, it's better than we had before. Both the EU rep & Trump spoke about their goal was zero tariffs especially on industrial products. The EU rep seemed positive but of course there is a lot of work to do to narrow down the details.

---

It does matter because without knowing the amounts, you have no idea if it is "better than we had before."

Everybody wants 0% tariffs; its a wonderful goal. Call me when it happens.

I am not trivializing this; its a better path than we have been on. I am just leery of Trump's gamesmanship. The substance of his game is often not what it seems.

---

---

What has he achieved? Quantify it.

---

You want hard numbers, I get it. We don't have hard numbers yet. What we have is a path that looks better than the path we were on. Does that mean there is still a long way to go? Of course, but it's ok to celebrate an agreement in principle, even if many of the terms still need to be worked out. I always celebrate when I get a commercial property under contract. I know there is still a long way to go (financing, getting investors together, business plans, feasibility studies, physical condition reports, etc), however, that doesn't mean you can celebrate what has been accomplished. Meeting of the minds is the first step. Yesterday we were told that we pissed off all of our trading partners and we were facing a world-wide economic collapse. While we still have a long way to go, the fact that the EU very publicly made a statement of unity with the US today is a reason to be optimistic.

---

Booray said:

---

contrario said:

---

Booray said:

---

riflebear said:

---

Booray said:

---

riflebear said:

---

Booray said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

---

Booray said:

---

So the concession is that the EU will import soybeans and lng - how much? And what are we giving up?

I like the announcement, but will keep the champaign on ice until the details are clear.

---

You are looking at this wrong.

A few more soybean and natural gas sales is way better than the world-wide apocalypse and famine that has been predicted by MSM for a few weeks.

---

Yes it would be. But that is not the question. Trump will sell this as "see how I negotiated us to a better position.
"
What I am wondering, however, is whether Trump is just putting lipstick on the pig. Tell me how we will be better off than before we imposed the sanctions.

Worth noting that POTUS has crafted one other significant international agreement: the de-nuclearization of North Korea. That does not mean North Korea is denuclearized. Likewise, this announcement does not mean we have won on trade.

---

Doesn't matter if it's 2% or 5-40% more in trade, it's better than we had before. Both the EU rep & Trump spoke about their goal was zero tariffs especially on industrial products. The EU rep seemed positive but of course there is a lot of work to do to narrow down the details.

---

It does matter because without knowing the amounts, you have no idea if it is "better than we had before."

Everybody wants 0% tariffs; its a wonderful goal. Call me when it happens.

I am not trivializing this; its a better path than we have been on. I am just leery of Trump's gamesmanship. The substance of his game is often not what it seems.

---

---

What has he achieved? Quantify it.

---

You want hard numbers, I get it. We don't have hard numbers yet. What we have is a path that looks better than the path we were on. Does that mean there is still a long way to go? Of course, but it's ok to celebrate an agreement in principle, even if many of the terms still need to be worked out. I always celebrate when I get a commercial property under contract. I know there is still a long way to go (financing, getting investors together, business plans, feasibility studies, physical condition reports, etc), however, that doesn't mean you can celebrate what has been accomplished. Meeting of the minds is the first step. Yesterday we were told that we pissed off all of our trading partners and we were facing a world-wide economic collapse. While we still have a long way to go, the fact that the EU very publicly made a statement of unity with the US today is a reason to be optimistic.

---

I agree. But "show me the money."

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bubbadog said:

---

The good:
We get the EU to buy more soybeans, which takes some of the pressure off farmers.
Buying natural gas from us (if it turns out to be a significant amount) is a double win. Helps us and hurts Putin.

The not-so-good:
Automobile tariffs specifically excluded, and those could have the biggest effect. Serious enough that a bipartisan Senate bill has been introduced to delay Trump's authority to impose the 25 percent tariff.
Tariffs on steel and other goods already imposed remain in place.

The incomplete:
Statement of intention to eliminate all tariffs between US and EU is worthy goal. But it's just words so far.

Overall:
Some positive steps.
Not the huge deal that some are proclaiming.

---

Booray said:

---

contrario said:

---

Booray said:

---

riflebear said:

---

Booray said:

---

riflebear said:

---

Booray said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

---

Booray said:

---

So the concession is that the EU will import soybeans and lng - how much? And what are we giving up?

I like the announcement, but will keep the champaign on ice until the details are clear.

---

You are looking at this wrong.

A few more soybean and natural gas sales is way better than the world-wide apocalypse and famine that has been predicted by MSM for a few weeks.

---

Yes it would be. But that is not the question. Trump will sell this as "see how I negotiated us to a better position.
"
What I am wondering, however, is whether Trump is just putting lipstick on the pig. Tell me how we will be better off than before we imposed the sanctions.

Worth noting that POTUS has crafted one other significant international agreement: the de-nuclearization of North Korea. That does not mean North Korea is denuclearized. Likewise, this announcement does not mean we have won on trade.

---

Doesn't matter if it's 2% or 5-40% more in trade, it's better than we had before. Both the EU rep & Trump spoke about their goal was zero tariffs especially on industrial products. The EU rep seemed positive but of course there is a lot of work to do to narrow down the details.

---

It does matter because without knowing the amounts, you have no idea if it is "better than we had before."

Everybody wants 0% tariffs; its a wonderful goal. Call me when it happens.

I am not trivializing this; its a better path than we have been on. I am just leery of Trump's gamesmanship. The substance of his game is often not what it seems.

---

---

What has he achieved? Quantify it.

---

You want hard numbers, I get it. We don't have hard numbers yet. What we have is a path that looks better than the path we were on. Does that mean there is still a long way to go? Of course, but it's ok to celebrate an agreement in principle, even if many of the terms still need to be worked out. I always celebrate when I get a commercial property under contract. I know there is still a long way to go (financing, getting investors together, business plans, feasibility studies, physical condition reports, etc), however, that doesn't mean you can celebrate what has been accomplished. Meeting of the minds is the first step. Yesterday we were told that we pissed off all of our trading partners and we were facing a world-wide economic collapse. While we still have a long way to go, the fact that the EU very publicly made a statement of unity with the US today is a reason to be optimistic.

---

I agree. But "show me the money."

---

contrario said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

The good:
We get the EU to buy more soybeans, which takes some of the pressure off farmers.
Buying natural gas from us (if it turns out to be a significant amount) is a double win. Helps us and hurts Putin.

The not-so-good:
Automobile tariffs specifically excluded, and those could have the biggest effect. Serious enough that a bipartisan Senate bill has been introduced to delay Trump's authority to impose the 25 percent tariff.
Tariffs on steel and other goods already imposed remain in place.

The incomplete:
Statement of intention to eliminate all tariffs between US and EU is worthy goal. But it's just words so far.

Overall:
Some positive steps.
Not the huge deal that some are proclaiming.

---

Well of course. It's all about one's perception. If Obama had gotten the same deal, the democrats on here would have been celebrating too. The truth is always in the middle, in this case it's not as good as those on the far right are making it out to be and it is more than those on the far left that are claiming it is nothing. This same logic can be applied to every single topic.

---

bubbadog said:

---

contrario said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

The good:
We get the EU to buy more soybeans, which takes some of the pressure off farmers.
Buying natural gas from us (if it turns out to be a significant amount) is a double win. Helps us and hurts Putin.

The not-so-good:
Automobile tariffs specifically excluded, and those could have the biggest effect. Serious enough that a bipartisan Senate bill has been introduced to delay Trump's authority to impose the 25 percent tariff.
Tariffs on steel and other goods already imposed remain in place.

The incomplete:
Statement of intention to eliminate all tariffs between US and EU is worthy goal. But it's just words so far.

Overall:
Some positive steps.
Not the huge deal that some are proclaiming.

---

Well of course. It's all about one's perception. If Obama had gotten the same deal, the democrats on here would have been celebrating too. The truth is always in the middle, in this case it's not as good as those on the far right are making it out to be and it is more than those on the far left that are claiming it is nothing. This same logic can be applied to every single topic.

---

Only if you see every issue in purely partisan terms and as a zero-sum game, which seems to be the binary form of analysis favored around here. Some of the partisans here are incapable of anything more than that, but I'd still like to believe that doesn't apply to all of them.

---

bubbadog said:

---

contrario said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

The good:
We get the EU to buy more soybeans, which takes some of the pressure off farmers.
Buying natural gas from us (if it turns out to be a significant amount) is a double win. Helps us and hurts Putin.

The not-so-good:
Automobile tariffs specifically excluded, and those could have the biggest effect. Serious enough that a bipartisan Senate bill has been introduced to delay Trump's authority to impose the 25 percent tariff.
Tariffs on steel and other goods already imposed remain in place.

The incomplete:
Statement of intention to eliminate all tariffs between US and EU is worthy goal. But it's just words so far.

Overall:
Some positive steps.
Not the huge deal that some are proclaiming.

---

Well of course. It's all about one's perception. If Obama had gotten the same deal, the democrats on here would have been celebrating too. The truth is always in the middle, in this case it's not as good as those on the far right are making it out to be and it is more than those on the far left that are claiming it is nothing. This same logic can be applied to every single topic.

---

Only if you see every issue in purely partisan terms and as a zero-sum game, which seems to be the binary form of analysis favored around here. Some of the partisans here are incapable of anything more than that, but I'd still like to believe that doesn't apply to all of them.

---

contrario said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

The good:
We get the EU to buy more soybeans, which takes some of the pressure off farmers.
Buying natural gas from us (if it turns out to be a significant amount) is a double win. Helps us and hurts Putin.

The not-so-good:
Automobile tariffs specifically excluded, and those could have the biggest effect. Serious enough that a bipartisan Senate bill has been introduced to delay Trump's authority to impose the 25 percent tariff.
Tariffs on steel and other goods already imposed remain in place.

The incomplete:
Statement of intention to eliminate all tariffs between US and EU is worthy goal. But it's just words so far.

Overall:
Some positive steps.
Not the huge deal that some are proclaiming.

---

Well of course. It's all about one's perception. If Obama had gotten the same deal, the democrats on here would have been celebrating too. The truth is always in the middle, in this case it's not as good as those on the far right are making it out to be and it is more than those on the far left that are claiming it is nothing. This same logic can be applied to every single topic.

---

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

The good:
We get the EU to buy more soybeans, which takes some of the pressure off farmers.
Buying natural gas from us (if it turns out to be a significant amount) is a double win. Helps us and hurts Putin.

The not-so-good:
Automobile tariffs specifically excluded, and those could have the biggest effect. Serious enough that a bipartisan Senate bill has been introduced to delay Trump's authority to impose the 25 percent tariff.
Tariffs on steel and other goods already imposed remain in place.

The incomplete:
Statement of intention to eliminate all tariffs between US and EU is worthy goal. But it's just words so far.

Overall:
Some positive steps.
Not the huge deal that some are proclaiming.

---

Well of course. It's all about one's perception. If Obama had gotten the same deal, the democrats on here would have been celebrating too. The truth is always in the middle, in this case it's not as good as those on the far right are making it out to be and it is more than those on the far left that are claiming it is nothing. This same logic can be applied to every single topic.

---

Obama was on the way to securing a much broader deal with the EU than this proposal (and that's really what it is at this point) before the current administration scuttled it, it was called the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. I don't have time to check it now, but I'd be interested to know if these newly agreed to items were included in the TTIP already.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership

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quash said:

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From Reason:

"But a mere handshake agreement to send more soybeans across the Atlantic won't make up for a reduction in exports across the Pacific.

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HuMcK said:

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The body of this article is much more reassuring than the headline would suggest, it sounds like Trump actually may have done his homework and prepared for this meeting between himself and Junker.

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