Canada2017 said:

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Prairie_Bear said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Seriously think about the bio's of most leftists.

Divorce is common , little real believe in God, daily reliance on various pills,..loneliness, frustration and despair.

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I know this will get you some AMEN likes for these talking points, but the "left" doesn't have a monopoly on these things and the data says that Christians divorce as much if not more than atheists and Antdepressant use in the U.S. soars by 65% in 15 years. Now some of the latter may have to do with access and Big Pharm influence over prescribing physicians, but the point remains to attribute all the ills to one side is short sided. Go to Church and people watch, how many are obese (treat your body like God's temple), and how many make a point to be seen getting out of their Audi rather than use those resources (and the time at work to acquire these things) for God's work? Many of those people are not strictly "leftists", we all have a part in this.

When I used to be a premium member on this site, in the "Bear Cave" a year or so ago I posted a "Is UBI inevitable" thread. I know I am the resident kooky futurist here, but to not note the rate of progression of AI (evolved more in the last 5 years than the prior 20, more in the last 50 years that the prior 500, etc) and its upcoming role in making a jobs based economy obsolete is short sighted. Heck, in my practice in last 10 years we have replaced 2 full times jobs into one 15 hr a week part time job via scheduling, billing, and patient noting automation software. It is only getting better and more efficient. Yes new jobs will be created, but think of the person of most average intelligence, half the world is dumber than them, remedial jobs will be going away. Even specialized jobs are affected, recently AI outperformed human radiologists in detecting metastatic breast cancer!

So that said, while my wife and I both have post grad degrees and do "well" (would be great if not for student loans) and are registered Republicans, I do not fear "socialism". 1, because there is nothing I can do about it, 2 fear mongering doesn't motivate me, and 3 because as a spiritual person I am called to trust God and not "hate" others for thinking differently than me. I think this era of focusing on how much we work to allow us to consume goods at high rates shows it is not making us "happy". Rather, focusing on relationships is where our focus should be for "happiness" (see any group of psych studies). While I like what I do and think I am pretty good at it, I would rather be spending my day with my loved ones and taking up hobbies to better myself and my community versus hording resources for my personal benefit. I think eventual UBI/socialism will allow that where AI produces the goods for us to exist vs. taking from one to give to another. That will require a massive paradigm shift in what is important to us as a nation that won't go over well on the front end.

JMHO.

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Thank you for sharing your opinions.

With the exception of a total sociopath I knew in college ...I don't hate anyone. Least of all for expressing opions different than mine.

Yes obesity is a huge problem, yes there is divorce among Christians ( though our priest tells us it is a lower rate ) and I don't 'fear' what's happening in the United States because...

A. There is no way to stop it now
B. Have enough assets with which to insulate my family.
C. Odds are I'll be dead within 20 years anyway.


Peace be with you.

---

Amen Brother. ""I've never heard a dying man say, I wish I would have worked more."

God willing, I am working four more years. Should the Democrats take control of the House and the Senate, i'm retiring next Wednesday.

Doc Holliday said:

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JusHappy2BeHere said:

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If by Radical Left Socialist State you mean like Canada, the United Kingdom, Germany, France.....

yeah I'm down with moving that direction..... your fear of it is real funny.


we are already close to being there.... we have public education, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, SNAP....

---

Norway, the holy grail of socialism that your ilk likes:

I ordered a beer in Norway and it cost $28 ****ing dollars dude.
Food is taxed 25%.
$25 dollars for a ten minute one way taxi ride.

Scandinavians have less things to buy on a personal scale, but share many public amenities.

Your house in Texas would cost well over double there...but they're non existent for the most part.
A Honda civic costs over 50k.
Those countries are not utopias. And you shouldn't give your opinion on them if you've never been there.

You think those countries are better than the U.S.?

How did the U.S. become the worlds superpower in only 250 years on capitalism and not socialism?

---

The average price of a beer in Norway is $6.00. The fact (and I believe you) about paying $28 for a beer says much more about you than a nations economy.

BTW, how many foreign countries have you lived in? I have lived in 4 so far. Huge difference between being a tourist and an expat.

You may be extremely healthy (so am I) but at some point in most mens lives the cost of health care for a family can get pretty high.

Healthcare is HUGE, Redneck. No matter what side of the aisle we're on. It is what keeps me working. A family can't be without it. I currently pay $1,600 per month for my family of four.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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JusHappy2BeHere said:

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If by Radical Left Socialist State you mean like Canada, the United Kingdom, Germany, France.....

yeah I'm down with moving that direction..... your fear of it is real funny.


we are already close to being there.... we have public education, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, SNAP....

---

Norway, the holy grail of socialism that your ilk likes:

I ordered a beer in Norway and it cost $28 ****ing dollars dude.
Food is taxed 25%.
$25 dollars for a ten minute one way taxi ride.

Scandinavians have less things to buy on a personal scale, but share many public amenities.

Your house in Texas would cost well over double there...but they're non existent for the most part.
A Honda civic costs over 50k.
Those countries are not utopias. And you shouldn't give your opinion on them if you've never been there.

You think those countries are better than the U.S.?

How did the U.S. become the worlds superpower in only 250 years on capitalism and not socialism?

---

The average price of a beer in Norway is $6.00. The fact (and I believe you) about paying $28 for a beer says much more about you than a nations economy.

BTW, how many foreign countries have you lived in? I have lived in 4 so far. Huge difference between being a tourist and an expat.

You may be extremely healthy (so am I) but at some point in most mens lives the cost of health care for a family can get pretty high.

---

Im a beer snob so yeah. But I didn't realize how expensive it was until after I ordered it.

What is socialism? It's a continuum. What's your definition? Let's get clarity.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Healthcare is HUGE, Redneck. No matter what side of the aisle we're on. It is what keeps me working. A family can't be without it. I currently pay $1,600 per month for my family of four.

---

I go without it as often as I can.

quash said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Healthcare is HUGE, Redneck. No matter what side of the aisle we're on. It is what keeps me working. A family can't be without it. I currently pay $1,600 per month for my family of four.

---

I go without it as often as I can.

---

Dang!! Do you have kids? How old are you if you don't mind me asking. I am 55.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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quash said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Healthcare is HUGE, Redneck. No matter what side of the aisle we're on. It is what keeps me working. A family can't be without it. I currently pay $1,600 per month for my family of four.

---

I go without it as often as I can.

---

Dang!! Do you have kids? How old are you if you don't mind me asking. I am 55.

---

Empty nester.

quash said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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quash said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Healthcare is HUGE, Redneck. No matter what side of the aisle we're on. It is what keeps me working. A family can't be without it. I currently pay $1,600 per month for my family of four.

---

I go without it as often as I can.

---

Dang!! Do you have kids? How old are you if you don't mind me asking. I am 55.

---

Empty nester.

---

So you must be about my age. Will be nice when my kiddos leave the nest and can flap on their own!

Socialist Program
Many of these are quite popular too.
Examples include:

• public K-12 education, which functions alongside charter schools and private K-12s;
• public libraries, which function very well in an age of bookstores;
• public police forces, which work alongside private detectives and private security firms;
• public infrastructure like roads, bridges, water and sewer systems, making modern life as comfort-driven as it is today;
• public parks, with green spaces and recreation space for all
• municipal power is in many towns, akin to the TVA. My old hometown had a company run by the town, with rates about 2/3 what you'd expect from the nearby private power companies in neighboring cities and towns--also lower downtime and better service, despite more inclement weather; and
• Social Security, which is socialism for seniors. Who can still work for extra money if they must, but won't be totally destitute if they don't.
• Medicare helps seniors as well.

It's like the OP just watches Hannity all day on repeat and types his words verbatim.

cowboycwr said:

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J.R. said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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J.R. said:

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Doc,....where/how do you get your health care/Insurance?

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Employer.

Plus I'm extremely healthy.

---

Ok, glad your healthy. We are the only country in the industrialized world who relies on Business and Govt (govt employees/teachers ect) for subsidize health care. Therefore you/we have absolutely no clue how much healthcare really costs. It's not a $20 co pay. I advocate that everyone should have to source their own healthcare on the free market. Just like car insurance, that is the only way to drive costs down and quality up. I'm self insured and have a $15K deductible and pay $2K per month and, pay everything out of pocket, pretty much. This is a complex problem and no one seems to want to get really serious about it. I think the ACA was the correct first step, but was woefully short. Trumps wanted to dismantle with no replacement plan and that is a big, big problem. Look at the Insurance Companies earnings.. There is one of your big culprits.

---

Insurance is not the issue.

Cost is.

No way it costs $100 bucks (or less) for an xray at a vet's office or dentist office with no insurance and yet the same, as in exact same machine, costs $2,000 or more plus needs a specialist to run, read the x ray, etc.

How are dentists, vets, dental hygienists, vet techs, etc able to operate and read xray machines and the results but a nurse/doctor cannot?????

And this is just one example. there are many more where it is clear that there is a scam going on with costs inflated.

---

Insurance is the issue. A 25-30% bureaucratic middle man expense. Doing almost no real service

Buddha Bear said:

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It's like the OP just watches Hannity all day on repeat and types his words verbatim.

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No, he's going n Breitbart getting his little out of context factoids

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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quash said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

quash said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Healthcare is HUGE, Redneck. No matter what side of the aisle we're on. It is what keeps me working. A family can't be without it. I currently pay $1,600 per month for my family of four.

---

I go without it as often as I can.

---

Dang!! Do you have kids? How old are you if you don't mind me asking. I am 55.

---

Empty nester.

---

So you must be about my age. Will be nice when my kiddos leave the nest and can flap on their own!

---

I'm eagerly anticipating this too

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Healthcare is HUGE, Redneck. No matter what side of the aisle we're on. It is what keeps me working. A family can't be without it. I currently pay $1,600 per month for my family of four.

---

That price tag is incredible. My best friend pays about the same for his family of four as well. Given that the avg American household makes about $56k per year (obviously y'all prob make a lot more), about 1/3rd of an avg family's income is going to healthcare after taxes. I gotta say, getting rid of the individual mandate was a good idea if this is the reality nowadays. Not sustainable at all.

I've been out of country for almost a decade. My company pays 100% of my insurance, and it's global coverage (excluding the US of course). The irony is that my health insurance company is American based, and doesn't offer global coverage that includes the US. Didn't realize how lucky I was until now. It's gonna be a tough transition back home if I ever come back.

Waco1947 said:

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Socialist Program
Many of these are quite popular too.
Examples include:

• public K-12 education, which functions alongside charter schools and private K-12s;
• public libraries, which function very well in an age of bookstores;
• public police forces, which work alongside private detectives and private security firms;
• public infrastructure like roads, bridges, water and sewer systems, making modern life as comfort-driven as it is today;
• public parks, with green spaces and recreation space for all
• municipal power is in many towns, akin to the TVA. My old hometown had a company run by the town, with rates about 2/3 what you'd expect from the nearby private power companies in neighboring cities and towns--also lower downtime and better service, despite more inclement weather; and
• Social Security, which is socialism for seniors. Who can still work for extra money if they must, but won't be totally destitute if they don't.
• Medicare helps seniors as well.

---

Police and roads aren't "socialism" or socialist programs.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Healthcare is HUGE, Redneck. No matter what side of the aisle we're on. It is what keeps me working. A family can't be without it. I currently pay $1,600 per month for my family of four.

---

I am 58. My kids are 42, 36 and 35. i have insurance provided through my retirement but I havent used it in over 6 years My work in the UAE provided insurance which was much better than the coverage I have in the States.
I had no coverage in Laos, Thailand or China but figured if I got real sick I could always come home. I did have a short hospital stay in China and though I got good care it was very reasonably priced and paying for it out of my pocket presented no hardship.

quash said:

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Socialism sucks, we won't adopt it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something.

---

^^^ In ALL seriousness, how could you be sooo naive?

You promote Socialism daily in most every post you make promoting the Democrat Party

Do you seriously not know this?

Omg

Florida Mike, no one is selling us socialism. What is socialism to you? Would Medicare for all finally make us a socialist country? About 20% of our country is already on socialized medicine (conservative lingo) already. I guess we could lump our veterans in that group too (another 20 million people). So over 25% is sucking at the gov't teet.

Would expanded university funding make us socialist? Direct gov't funding is at an all time low, but individual funding is at an all time high (grants & gov't backed loans). Shifting the burden to the individual back in the 80's backfired, and ended up costing the gov't more than if they left it alone.

K through 12 is government funded, but we realize that this type of education is a right that should be afforded to all citizens in order to develop the mental capacity to function in our society.

No one is advocating for gov't control of businesses and industry, and no one ever will. Only the conservative media preaches this. It must suck to live in so much fear all the time.

The way I understand Socialism to take over, is you wake the next morning and banks are "nationalized"

Money in all accounts are taken from people so everyone has same amount which is $0. Is that correct?

And then private(real estate) property ownership, mostly liened by banks, is immediately unlawful and neighborhoods are "integrated" by the confiscation of private property. Can someone verify this? I read both these plans were prepped during Obama's regime but he needed more time than he had to finish the job

Democrats under obama had Healthcare program nationalized soon except it's such a bloody failure!

Those 3 things(cash, real estate and healthcare) are huge step to making all people equal, except the elite ruling class in government! Again, they take banked cash, all real estate and healthcare(employment too). Ruling class and it's fam and friends get to keep theirs though as that's how socialism is enacted!

Problem is money soon runs out on Socialism and it fails for sure in relatively short time. However, after all has failed then capitalism has to be allowed back to rebuild the damage Socialism has done and those that promoted socialism(the ruling classes required to make positive changes) would have to admit their wrongs and they won't do it by allowing the solution, capitalism! Hence we wallow along the edges of socialism as a solution for eternity seeking a better life. That's human behavior in real life

Russia is great example in our lifetimes

I do also believe it's inevitable we will slip into socialism as our inexperienced unwise and ignorantly educated youth wants socialism too badly to not allow it to happen eventually. I also know it will fail but that failure won't matter as we will all be in equal poverty then and not recover forever as the solution of capitalism won't be allowed by our wealthy elite leaders as they'd have to sacrifice their money and power back to us and lose theirs. That won't happen as we continue slowly to starve and die of untreated diseases because of terrible healthcare

Easy for me to see this as Soros backed Andrew Gillum the criminal is fixing to take our state and neighboring Georgia faces same

If Beta Beto was better candidate Texas would have a Socialist/Commie Senator. Foresight tells you there will be future obama's Even in Texas ready to crash state like what fixing to possibly happen here in Florida. And the Quash's and Cinque are the "useful idiots" for these socialist elite

Democrats and GOPe is where it's rooted so they need gone and I care not how that occurs AT ALL. It's probably the death of them or death of my children and grandchildren. Sad but true

Buddha Bear said:

---

Florida Mike, no one is selling us socialism. What is socialism to you? Would Medicare for all finally make us a socialist country? About 20% of our country is already on socialized medicine (conservative lingo) already. I guess we could lump our veterans in that group too (another 20 million people). So over 25% is sucking at the gov't teet.

Would expanded university funding make us socialist? Direct gov't funding is at an all time low, but individual funding is at an all time high (grants & gov't backed loans). Shifting the burden to the individual back in the 80's backfired, and ended up costing the gov't more than if they left it alone.

K through 12 is government funded, but we realize that this type of education is a right that should be afforded to all citizens in order to develop the mental capacity to function in our society.

No one is advocating for gov't control of businesses and industry, and no one ever will. Only the conservative media preaches this. It must suck to live in so much fear all the time.

---

Socialism is production and distribution o goods owned and determined by centralized government

That's being openly promoted by a strong presidential candidate recently and was used by obama silently although he openly promoted it in speech if cleverly or intelligently deciphered. How can you be so naive to say "no one's selling us socialism" and obama did it? Are you another foreign Baylor grad that doesn't understand our country and it's history?

I agree with too many, including retired govt workers suc govt teet as we live in military area! Serve 20 short years and you're set for life here, BIGLY set too at $100,000+ paid by govt + tons of benefits we can't afford! They love it but it's not sustainable, Medicare too!

Govt control of anything needs inventoried by true businesspeople like Trump to find sustainable solutions. That includes govt loans and govt education

You are naive and have no clue of government intervention in private business. You can't have actual decades long experience owning businesses by saying your final paragraph above

You are the enemy of the good with your ignorance of socialism, and don't even know it

Democrats are American ISIS.

Florda_mike said:

---

quash said:

---

Socialism sucks, we won't adopt it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something.

---

^^^ In ALL seriousness, how could you be sooo naive?

You promote Socialism daily in most every post you make promoting the Democrat Party

Do you seriously not know this?

Omg

---

Shush, the grownups are talking.

Buddha Bear said:

---

Florida Mike, no one is selling us socialism. What is socialism to you? Would Medicare for all finally make us a socialist country? About 20% of our country is already on socialized medicine (conservative lingo) already. I guess we could lump our veterans in that group too (another 20 million people). So over 25% is sucking at the gov't teet.

Would expanded university funding make us socialist? Direct gov't funding is at an all time low, but individual funding is at an all time high (grants & gov't backed loans). Shifting the burden to the individual back in the 80's backfired, and ended up costing the gov't more than if they left it alone.

K through 12 is government funded, but we realize that this type of education is a right that should be afforded to all citizens in order to develop the mental capacity to function in our society.

No one is advocating for gov't control of businesses and industry, and no one ever will. Only the conservative media preaches this. It must suck to live in so much fear all the time.

---

Public roads and public goods, generally, are non rivalrous and non excludable.
Everyone has access to a road and anyone can use it and I can't exclude you from using that road. In the same way that the military is non rivalrous and non excludable...it's the definition of a public good.

That's NOT the same thing as alienation of my labor.
By your definition, all government spending is socialism. This is not true.

People and US politicians are selling socialism. They're even calling it socialism.
It is advocating for government control of business and industry...and if you let Democrats win, they will pursue it.

bularry said:

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cowboycwr said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Doc,....where/how do you get your health care/Insurance?

---

Employer.

Plus I'm extremely healthy.

---

Ok, glad your healthy. We are the only country in the industrialized world who relies on Business and Govt (govt employees/teachers ect) for subsidize health care. Therefore you/we have absolutely no clue how much healthcare really costs. It's not a $20 co pay. I advocate that everyone should have to source their own healthcare on the free market. Just like car insurance, that is the only way to drive costs down and quality up. I'm self insured and have a $15K deductible and pay $2K per month and, pay everything out of pocket, pretty much. This is a complex problem and no one seems to want to get really serious about it. I think the ACA was the correct first step, but was woefully short. Trumps wanted to dismantle with no replacement plan and that is a big, big problem. Look at the Insurance Companies earnings.. There is one of your big culprits.

---

Insurance is not the issue.

Cost is.

No way it costs $100 bucks (or less) for an xray at a vet's office or dentist office with no insurance and yet the same, as in exact same machine, costs $2,000 or more plus needs a specialist to run, read the x ray, etc.

How are dentists, vets, dental hygienists, vet techs, etc able to operate and read xray machines and the results but a nurse/doctor cannot?????

And this is just one example. there are many more where it is clear that there is a scam going on with costs inflated.

---

Insurance is the issue. A 25-30% bureaucratic middle man expense. Doing almost no real service

---

That is true and leads to part of the cost. But just part.

Because even accounting for that it does not explain the cost difference for the exact same machine used at the 3 locations, the people needed to run/operate them, read the results, etc.

Waco1947 said:

---

Socialist Program
Many of these are quite popular too.
Examples include:

• public K-12 education, which functions alongside charter schools and private K-12s;
• public libraries, which function very well in an age of bookstores;
• public police forces, which work alongside private detectives and private security firms;
• public infrastructure like roads, bridges, water and sewer systems, making modern life as comfort-driven as it is today;
• public parks, with green spaces and recreation space for all
• municipal power is in many towns, akin to the TVA. My old hometown had a company run by the town, with rates about 2/3 what you'd expect from the nearby private power companies in neighboring cities and towns--also lower downtime and better service, despite more inclement weather; and
• Social Security, which is socialism for seniors. Who can still work for extra money if they must, but won't be totally destitute if they don't.
• Medicare helps seniors as well.

---

Many of these are not socialist programs or socialist in their idea.

Social Security isn't SUPPOSED to be. It is supposed to be the money an individual pays in and gets back. IE a government run retirement program.

Same goes for many of the others but I won't bother getting into the details because you won't read or understand.

Buddha Bear said:

---

Florida Mike, no one is selling us socialism. What is socialism to you? Would Medicare for all finally make us a socialist country? About 20% of our country is already on socialized medicine (conservative lingo) already. I guess we could lump our veterans in that group too (another 20 million people). So over 25% is sucking at the gov't teet.

Would expanded university funding make us socialist? Direct gov't funding is at an all time low, but individual funding is at an all time high (grants & gov't backed loans). Shifting the burden to the individual back in the 80's backfired, and ended up costing the gov't more than if they left it alone.

K through 12 is government funded, but we realize that this type of education is a right that should be afforded to all citizens in order to develop the mental capacity to function in our society.

No one is advocating for gov't control of businesses and industry, and no one ever will. Only the conservative media preaches this. It must suck to live in so much fear all the time.

---

"Democratic socialists have been one of the breakout groups of the 2018 midterm elections, springing to national attention in June with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's upset of a 10-term incumbent, the chairman of the House Democratic Caucus."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/09/22/us/politics/what-is-democratic-socialism.html

Sam Lowry said:

---

Buddha Bear said:

---

Florida Mike, no one is selling us socialism. What is socialism to you? Would Medicare for all finally make us a socialist country? About 20% of our country is already on socialized medicine (conservative lingo) already. I guess we could lump our veterans in that group too (another 20 million people). So over 25% is sucking at the gov't teet.

Would expanded university funding make us socialist? Direct gov't funding is at an all time low, but individual funding is at an all time high (grants & gov't backed loans). Shifting the burden to the individual back in the 80's backfired, and ended up costing the gov't more than if they left it alone.

K through 12 is government funded, but we realize that this type of education is a right that should be afforded to all citizens in order to develop the mental capacity to function in our society.

No one is advocating for gov't control of businesses and industry, and no one ever will. Only the conservative media preaches this. It must suck to live in so much fear all the time.

---

"Democratic socialists have been one of the breakout groups of the 2018 midterm elections, springing to national attention in June with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's upset of a 10-term incumbent, the chairman of the House Democratic Caucus."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/09/22/us/politics/what-is-democratic-socialism.html

---

Sam I seriously wonder if Buddha lives here by that initial statement of his

There's no way someone on poli board wouldn't know what you mention imo

Buddha Bear said:

---

It's like the OP just watches Hannity all day on repeat and types his words verbatim.

---

These guys are t against government spending. They are against it for other people.

Doc Holliday said:

---

University Chicago survey of 18-to-34-year-olds, from this May, found that 61% of millennial Democrats "express favorable views toward Socialism." One Gallup poll from a few months later reported that more Democrats hold "positive views" of socialism than of capitalism, at 57% versus 47%.

---

My brother did that survey. Lots of complex issues.

cowboycwr said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Socialist Program
Many of these are quite popular too.
Examples include:

• public K-12 education, which functions alongside charter schools and private K-12s;
• public libraries, which function very well in an age of bookstores;
• public police forces, which work alongside private detectives and private security firms;
• public infrastructure like roads, bridges, water and sewer systems, making modern life as comfort-driven as it is today;
• public parks, with green spaces and recreation space for all
• municipal power is in many towns, akin to the TVA. My old hometown had a company run by the town, with rates about 2/3 what you'd expect from the nearby private power companies in neighboring cities and towns--also lower downtime and better service, despite more inclement weather; and
• Social Security, which is socialism for seniors. Who can still work for extra money if they must, but won't be totally destitute if they don't.
• Medicare helps seniors as well.

---

Many of these are not socialist programs or socialist in their idea.

Social Security isn't SUPPOSED to be. It is supposed to be the money an individual pays in and gets back. IE a government run retirement program.

Same goes for many of the others but I won't bother getting into the details because you won't read or understand.

---

. Social Security is socialist. You pay in but it goes to a trust fund. You are paying my SS now as I did for my parents and grandparents. Yeah I read. Socialism is doing good for all even tho I may not have direct benefit.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Healthcare is HUGE, Redneck. No matter what side of the aisle we're on. It is what keeps me working. A family can't be without it. I currently pay $1,600 per month for my family of four.

---

We were paying $1200 for our family of 4 in 2003. For shi--y coverage that I was afraid would not really cover us if anything dire happened. My experience had been that, when you are covered as an individual and didn't have the strength of a large employer (who might take its significant book of business elsewhere if you messed with their employees unfairly) backing you up, the routine strategy was to deny claims and try to outlast the client.

That's why I went to work for a large employer in 2004.

Insurance is a terrible way to pay for healthcare. A giant national plan that's self-insured, with heavy taxes for habits like smoking that make you cost the healthcare system more, would really lower our costs, because we'd eliminate a lot of what we now pay for plan administration, coding cnsultants that help hospitals get as much money as they can out of payers, etc.

Waco1947 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Socialist Program
Many of these are quite popular too.
Examples include:

• public K-12 education, which functions alongside charter schools and private K-12s;
• public libraries, which function very well in an age of bookstores;
• public police forces, which work alongside private detectives and private security firms;
• public infrastructure like roads, bridges, water and sewer systems, making modern life as comfort-driven as it is today;
• public parks, with green spaces and recreation space for all
• municipal power is in many towns, akin to the TVA. My old hometown had a company run by the town, with rates about 2/3 what you'd expect from the nearby private power companies in neighboring cities and towns--also lower downtime and better service, despite more inclement weather; and
• Social Security, which is socialism for seniors. Who can still work for extra money if they must, but won't be totally destitute if they don't.
• Medicare helps seniors as well.

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Many of these are not socialist programs or socialist in their idea.

Social Security isn't SUPPOSED to be. It is supposed to be the money an individual pays in and gets back. IE a government run retirement program.

Same goes for many of the others but I won't bother getting into the details because you won't read or understand.

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. Social Security is socialist. You pay in but it goes to a trust fund. You are paying my SS now as I did for my parents and grandparents. Yeah I read. Socialism is doing good for all even tho I may not have direct benefit.

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Social security is the sole retirement safety net for way too many Americans.

It will be a third of my monthly income when I retire. I can't imagine trying to live on that benefit, and I will have paid off 2 houses and have month rental income from one of them. I will, however, still be on the hook for property tax, which I have paid out of pocket every year since I had a mortgage holder (my mortgage was sold to these people) in the 1990s who failed to use the escrow fund to pay my taxes and insurance until I called regulators. Since then, I've handled the taxes and insurance payments on my own.

Waco1947 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Socialist Program
Many of these are quite popular too.
Examples include:

• public K-12 education, which functions alongside charter schools and private K-12s;
• public libraries, which function very well in an age of bookstores;
• public police forces, which work alongside private detectives and private security firms;
• public infrastructure like roads, bridges, water and sewer systems, making modern life as comfort-driven as it is today;
• public parks, with green spaces and recreation space for all
• municipal power is in many towns, akin to the TVA. My old hometown had a company run by the town, with rates about 2/3 what you'd expect from the nearby private power companies in neighboring cities and towns--also lower downtime and better service, despite more inclement weather; and
• Social Security, which is socialism for seniors. Who can still work for extra money if they must, but won't be totally destitute if they don't.
• Medicare helps seniors as well.

---

Many of these are not socialist programs or socialist in their idea.

Social Security isn't SUPPOSED to be. It is supposed to be the money an individual pays in and gets back. IE a government run retirement program.

Same goes for many of the others but I won't bother getting into the details because you won't read or understand.

---

. Social Security is socialist. You pay in but it goes to a trust fund. You are paying my SS now as I did for my parents and grandparents. Yeah I read. Socialism is doing good for all even tho I may not have direct benefit.

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Man you really do not read or understand what people say to you.

You are a lost cause. You have your views/ideas and don't care to change.

Look up the definition of socialism and tell me that SS falls under that. It doesn't and wasn't SUPPOSED to.

Jinx 2 said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Healthcare is HUGE, Redneck. No matter what side of the aisle we're on. It is what keeps me working. A family can't be without it. I currently pay $1,600 per month for my family of four.

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We were paying $1200 for our family of 4 in 2003. For shi--y coverage that I was afraid would not really cover us if anything dire happened. My experience had been that, when you are covered as an individual and didn't have the strength of a large employer (who might take its significant book of business elsewhere if you messed with their employees unfairly) backing you up, the routine strategy was to deny claims and try to outlast the client.

That's why I went to work for a large employer in 2004.

Insurance is a terrible way to pay for healthcare. A giant national plan that's self-insured, with heavy taxes for habits like smoking that make you cost the healthcare system more, would really lower our costs, because we'd eliminate a lot of what we now pay for plan administration, coding cnsultants that help hospitals get as much money as they can out of payers, etc.

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....not to mention the over billing for services. I'm waiting on the itemized bill for a recent uncomplicated outpatient procedure for which I was billed (along with insurance) $7600 for recovery room time. I have the medical record and what's here doesn't jive with the billing. That the record is missing all nurses' notes from the OR and recovery raises my interest, too.

I need to add that I spent 38 years operating in this hospital system's OR's and watched closely my patients' billing as a matter of course.

There's gonna be some hard discussions in the immediate future. Long past due. Paying the piper.