TexasScientist said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

cms186 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Veganism is a self correcting fad... they will all die from malnutrition.
The meatless burger is an attempt to get the last few dollars from a dying group of suicidal idiots.

---

now I dont think thats true, as long as you have a balanced diet, Veganism can give you all the nutrients you need, it might be boring as hell, but you can live a perfectly normal life as a Vegan

---

It's called "essential fatty acids". No matter what BS the vegans will tell you, you can't get them from plants... only from meat & dairy. There's no such thing as an essential carbohydrate.

It's a very unhealthy fad. It slowly kills the liver, weakens your bones, and creates a shortage of nutrients necessary to maintain a healthy chemical balance. This is part of the reason why vegans suffer a much higher rate of anxiety & depression related health issues. It's very unhealthy.

Some veggies are good for you, but trying to deny the obvious fact that humans were designed to eat meat... that's just foolishness.

---

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. A whole food plant based diet provides all of the nutrients you need for health. There is nothing, I repeat nothing that you need from meat, and there is nothing you cannot get from plants such as protein, amino acids, and omega 3s. What you won't get from plants is heart disease, embolic strokes, type 2 diabetes and some cancers. You will get micronutrients and phytochemicals that are required for a fully functioning immune system. The research is overwhelming. www.nutritionfacts.org

---

You're simply wrong. It's obvious that you are a vegan, so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you of the truth. It takes a special type of person to try and save people from a cult... I'm not one of them.
Best of luck with your veggies.

ShooterTX said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

cms186 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Veganism is a self correcting fad... they will all die from malnutrition.
The meatless burger is an attempt to get the last few dollars from a dying group of suicidal idiots.

---

now I dont think thats true, as long as you have a balanced diet, Veganism can give you all the nutrients you need, it might be boring as hell, but you can live a perfectly normal life as a Vegan

---

It's called "essential fatty acids". No matter what BS the vegans will tell you, you can't get them from plants... only from meat & dairy. There's no such thing as an essential carbohydrate.

It's a very unhealthy fad. It slowly kills the liver, weakens your bones, and creates a shortage of nutrients necessary to maintain a healthy chemical balance. This is part of the reason why vegans suffer a much higher rate of anxiety & depression related health issues. It's very unhealthy.

Some veggies are good for you, but trying to deny the obvious fact that humans were designed to eat meat... that's just foolishness.

---

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. A whole food plant based diet provides all of the nutrients you need for health. There is nothing, I repeat nothing that you need from meat, and there is nothing you cannot get from plants such as protein, amino acids, and omega 3s. What you won't get from plants is heart disease, embolic strokes, type 2 diabetes and some cancers. You will get micronutrients and phytochemicals that are required for a fully functioning immune system. The research is overwhelming. www.nutritionfacts.org

---

You're simply wrong. It's obvious that you are a vegan, so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you of the truth. It takes a special type of person to try and save people from a cult... I'm not one of them.
Best of luck with your veggies.

---

It's not just 'vegan.' There is plenty of vegan junk food that is unhealthy. A healthy diet comes from a whole food plant based diet. Fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds and whole grains. Avoiding saturated fats, processed foods, dairy products and meat. I've spent years researching this subject. I've seen major health issues reversed through changing to a whole food plant based diet, along with natural weight loss.

TexasScientist said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

cms186 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Veganism is a self correcting fad... they will all die from malnutrition.
The meatless burger is an attempt to get the last few dollars from a dying group of suicidal idiots.

---

now I dont think thats true, as long as you have a balanced diet, Veganism can give you all the nutrients you need, it might be boring as hell, but you can live a perfectly normal life as a Vegan

---

It's called "essential fatty acids". No matter what BS the vegans will tell you, you can't get them from plants... only from meat & dairy. There's no such thing as an essential carbohydrate.

It's a very unhealthy fad. It slowly kills the liver, weakens your bones, and creates a shortage of nutrients necessary to maintain a healthy chemical balance. This is part of the reason why vegans suffer a much higher rate of anxiety & depression related health issues. It's very unhealthy.

Some veggies are good for you, but trying to deny the obvious fact that humans were designed to eat meat... that's just foolishness.

---

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. A whole food plant based diet provides all of the nutrients you need for health. There is nothing, I repeat nothing that you need from meat, and there is nothing you cannot get from plants such as protein, amino acids, and omega 3s. What you won't get from plants is heart disease, embolic strokes, type 2 diabetes and some cancers. You will get micronutrients and phytochemicals that are required for a fully functioning immune system. The research is overwhelming. www.nutritionfacts.org

---

You're simply wrong. It's obvious that you are a vegan, so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you of the truth. It takes a special type of person to try and save people from a cult... I'm not one of them.
Best of luck with your veggies.

---

It's not just 'vegan.' There is plenty of vegan junk food that is unhealthy. A healthy diet comes from a whole food plant based diet. Fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds and whole grains. Avoiding saturated fats, processed foods, dairy products and meat. I've spent years researching this subject. I've seen major health issues reversed through changing to a whole food plant based diet, along with natural weight loss.

---

^^^ I've experienced this coupled with 3-5 oz 90%+ lean grass fed beef or fish/fowl every meal

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

This is not the first time a fast food restaurant paid more attention to fads than facts.

Anyone remember the McLean?

I certainly recall its end, and expect the same for the Impossible Burger and that fake chicken nugget venture KFC is rolling out.

---

The McLean was created to try and generate a market. There already is a plant based market out there that wants these products. It will continue and grow. It is one step closer to healthier eating.

---

Not really. As I have said more than once, the 'Impossible' is prepared using the same animal fat and grill as other entrees, and so it's not going to be any better for you than a bag of french fries.

That's why I don't have high hopes for this one. I agree that there is a market for healthy eating, including low-fat foods which include meat products, but this one is far more spin than substance.

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

cms186 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Veganism is a self correcting fad... they will all die from malnutrition.
The meatless burger is an attempt to get the last few dollars from a dying group of suicidal idiots.

---

now I dont think thats true, as long as you have a balanced diet, Veganism can give you all the nutrients you need, it might be boring as hell, but you can live a perfectly normal life as a Vegan

---

It's called "essential fatty acids". No matter what BS the vegans will tell you, you can't get them from plants... only from meat & dairy. There's no such thing as an essential carbohydrate.

It's a very unhealthy fad. It slowly kills the liver, weakens your bones, and creates a shortage of nutrients necessary to maintain a healthy chemical balance. This is part of the reason why vegans suffer a much higher rate of anxiety & depression related health issues. It's very unhealthy.

Some veggies are good for you, but trying to deny the obvious fact that humans were designed to eat meat... that's just foolishness.

---

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. A whole food plant based diet provides all of the nutrients you need for health. There is nothing, I repeat nothing that you need from meat, and there is nothing you cannot get from plants such as protein, amino acids, and omega 3s. What you won't get from plants is heart disease, embolic strokes, type 2 diabetes and some cancers. You will get micronutrients and phytochemicals that are required for a fully functioning immune system. The research is overwhelming. www.nutritionfacts.org

---

You're simply wrong. It's obvious that you are a vegan, so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you of the truth. It takes a special type of person to try and save people from a cult... I'm not one of them.
Best of luck with your veggies.

---

It's not just 'vegan.' There is plenty of vegan junk food that is unhealthy. A healthy diet comes from a whole food plant based diet. Fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds and whole grains. Avoiding saturated fats, processed foods, dairy products and meat. I've spent years researching this subject. I've seen major health issues reversed through changing to a whole food plant based diet, along with natural weight loss.

---

^^^ I've experienced this coupled with 3-5 oz 90%+ lean grass fed beef or fish/fowl every meal

---

That's great. Are you on any meds, and what is your typical total cholesterol and BP, if you don't mind I ask?

TexasScientist said:

---

corncob pipe said:

---

When I eat meat I'm prone to greasy Brahma bull ass..

When I eat vegan my ass stays fresh as a mountain stream...

---

A meat centric diet promotes IBS.

---

And from what I read/hear from vegans, a vegan diet promotes arrogance and intolerance.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

corncob pipe said:

---

When I eat meat I'm prone to greasy Brahma bull ass..

When I eat vegan my ass stays fresh as a mountain stream...

---

A meat centric diet promotes IBS.

---

And from what I read/hear from vegans, a vegan diet promotes arrogance and intolerance.

---

Examples?

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

corncob pipe said:

---

When I eat meat I'm prone to greasy Brahma bull ass..

When I eat vegan my ass stays fresh as a mountain stream...

---

A meat centric diet promotes IBS.

---

And from what I read/hear from vegans, a vegan diet promotes arrogance and intolerance.

---

Examples?

---

Many of your posts in this thread.

Look, you want to be vegan, fine. Great if it works for you, but you have no medical credentials to say what works for everyone else. You reject meat - again, fine for you but you have no business demanding someone else live by your chosen diet.

You're down on dairy products, for example. But my wife was specifically directed by her doctor to include milk and cheese in her diet, in order to protect her bones, because as an Asian she is at higher risk of loss of bone density due to a lack of dairy calcium. I'm not telling anyone else they have to include milk and cheese in their diet, but anyone trashing milk and cheese in general is ignorant of the facts and intolerant of other people's needs and choices.

BaylorFTW said:

---

This is a plant based burger but apparently there are plans to make even meatless fried chicken too.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/26/business/kfc-beyond-meat-chicken/index.html.

---

It's a wonderful concept.

Healthier and more energy efficient to produce .

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

cms186 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Veganism is a self correcting fad... they will all die from malnutrition.
The meatless burger is an attempt to get the last few dollars from a dying group of suicidal idiots.

---

now I dont think thats true, as long as you have a balanced diet, Veganism can give you all the nutrients you need, it might be boring as hell, but you can live a perfectly normal life as a Vegan

---

It's called "essential fatty acids". No matter what BS the vegans will tell you, you can't get them from plants... only from meat & dairy. There's no such thing as an essential carbohydrate.

It's a very unhealthy fad. It slowly kills the liver, weakens your bones, and creates a shortage of nutrients necessary to maintain a healthy chemical balance. This is part of the reason why vegans suffer a much higher rate of anxiety & depression related health issues. It's very unhealthy.

Some veggies are good for you, but trying to deny the obvious fact that humans were designed to eat meat... that's just foolishness.

---

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. A whole food plant based diet provides all of the nutrients you need for health. There is nothing, I repeat nothing that you need from meat, and there is nothing you cannot get from plants such as protein, amino acids, and omega 3s. What you won't get from plants is heart disease, embolic strokes, type 2 diabetes and some cancers. You will get micronutrients and phytochemicals that are required for a fully functioning immune system. The research is overwhelming. www.nutritionfacts.org

---

You're simply wrong. It's obvious that you are a vegan, so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you of the truth. It takes a special type of person to try and save people from a cult... I'm not one of them.
Best of luck with your veggies.

---

It's not just 'vegan.' There is plenty of vegan junk food that is unhealthy. A healthy diet comes from a whole food plant based diet. Fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds and whole grains. Avoiding saturated fats, processed foods, dairy products and meat. I've spent years researching this subject. I've seen major health issues reversed through changing to a whole food plant based diet, along with natural weight loss.

---

^^^ I've experienced this coupled with 3-5 oz 90%+ lean grass fed beef or fish/fowl every meal

---

That's great. Are you on any meds, and what is your typical total cholesterol and BP, if you don't mind I ask?

---

Long story short

Lost nearly 60 lbs and of course, EVERYTHING, health wise got astronomically(like that word?) better

TexasScientist: " "


Can't argue with that!

Oldbear83 said:

---

tommie said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

This is not the first time a fast food restaurant paid more attention to fads than facts.

Anyone remember the McLean?

I certainly recall its end, and expect the same for the Impossible Burger and that fake chicken nugget venture KFC is rolling out.

---

I don't think non meat eating is a fad.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/26/kfc-will-test-beyond-meat-plant-based-chicken.html

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&ei=yu9lXbzNGdvM0PEPy_Ct6AU&q=beyond+meat+stock&oq=beyond+meat+s&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.0i131i70i250j0i131j0j0i131j0l2j0i131i67j0.4623.5007..7229...0.1..0.165.296.0j2......0....1.........0i71j0i67.KlVETUp68nk

---

It's not gonna work in fast food.

You want vegan, eat vegan.

You want vegetarian, fine.

But a burger is a burger, and I can already hear Wendy's getting ready to laugh at KFC's chicken-nuggets-but-no-chicken-what-the-hell-are-they ...

---

BK served it one day as a joke and people clamored for it so they brought it back for a while. The market gets what it wants.

Tried it, not gonna replace beef for me, but if I went veggie this would help satisfy a burger craving, so it goes that far.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

tommie said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

This is not the first time a fast food restaurant paid more attention to fads than facts.

Anyone remember the McLean?

I certainly recall its end, and expect the same for the Impossible Burger and that fake chicken nugget venture KFC is rolling out.

---

I don't think non meat eating is a fad.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/26/kfc-will-test-beyond-meat-plant-based-chicken.html

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&ei=yu9lXbzNGdvM0PEPy_Ct6AU&q=beyond+meat+stock&oq=beyond+meat+s&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.0i131i70i250j0i131j0j0i131j0l2j0i131i67j0.4623.5007..7229...0.1..0.165.296.0j2......0....1.........0i71j0i67.KlVETUp68nk

---

It's not gonna work in fast food.

You want vegan, eat vegan.

You want vegetarian, fine.

But a burger is a burger, and I can already hear Wendy's getting ready to laugh at KFC's chicken-nuggets-but-no-chicken-what-the-hell-are-they ...

---

BK served it one day as a joke and people clamored for it so they brought it back for a while. The market gets what it wants.

Tried it, not gonna replace beef for me, but if I went veggie this would help satisfy a burger craving, so it goes that far.

---

Sometimes companies try to sell something nobody wants, and learn hard lessons that way.

I see no evidence that "people clamored for it" from reviews. At best people are saying it's an OK burger, but I don't see it worth the premium price or being more than the 'pumpkin spice latte' version of a sandwich.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

corncob pipe said:

---

When I eat meat I'm prone to greasy Brahma bull ass..

When I eat vegan my ass stays fresh as a mountain stream...

---

A meat centric diet promotes IBS.

---

And from what I read/hear from vegans, a vegan diet promotes arrogance and intolerance.

---

Examples?

---

Many of your posts in this thread.

Look, you want to be vegan, fine. Great if it works for you, but you have no medical credentials to say what works for everyone else. You reject meat - again, fine for you but you have no business demanding someone else live by your chosen diet.

You're down on dairy products, for example. But my wife was specifically directed by her doctor to include milk and cheese in her diet, in order to protect her bones, because as an Asian she is at higher risk of loss of bone density due to a lack of dairy calcium. I'm not telling anyone else they have to include milk and cheese in their diet, but anyone trashing milk and cheese in general is ignorant of the facts and intolerant of other people's needs and choices.

---

Your overstating the facts once again does nothing for proving your point. I've never demanded anyone live by my diet. I've shared what I know to be a diet that adds longevity, and can prevent and even reverse certain medical conditions and disease, for the purpose of helping others who are interested in a healthier lifestyle. You just don't like me, and want to dismiss anything I have to say. However, this is something that I know quite a bit about for various reasons, and I do have some credentials in this area. I've never asked you or anyone to just take my word for it. I've given you links and references to prominent MDs and researchers. I can tell you that Dr.'s Colin Campbell, Joel Fuhrman, John McDougall, Caldwell Esselstyn, Neal Barnard, Joel Kahn, Kim Williams, Dean Ornish, Baxter Montgomery, Michael Greger, and Garth Davis all will tell you a meat centric diet is harmful, and that more than anything else, dairy is one of the worse things you can eat or drink. The independent non dairy industry sponsored research reflects this. Especially many Asians are lactose intolerant. Research shows that adding dairy to your diet pushes your body chemistry to be more acidic, and you body will actually leach calcium from your bones to buffer the acidity. That's one reason why studies have shown that countries that consume the most in dairy products have the highest hip fracture rates and osteoporosis. Don't take my word for it, go to nutritionfacts.org .
Dairy is full of IGF1, and other growth hormones (not to mention cholesterol) that promote rapid growth in a calf, which also happens to fuel rapid growing cancer cells. I recommend your wife consult with some other doctors that are knowledgeable in nutrition, and not a doctor that has been educated by the dairy industry. Call Dr. John McDougall www.drmcdougall.com, or Dr. Joel Fuhrman, www.drfuhrman.com, or Dr. Neal Barnard www.pcrm.org, Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn at the Cleveland Clinic, or Dean Ornish at University of California, San Francisco.

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

cms186 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Veganism is a self correcting fad... they will all die from malnutrition.
The meatless burger is an attempt to get the last few dollars from a dying group of suicidal idiots.

---

now I dont think thats true, as long as you have a balanced diet, Veganism can give you all the nutrients you need, it might be boring as hell, but you can live a perfectly normal life as a Vegan

---

It's called "essential fatty acids". No matter what BS the vegans will tell you, you can't get them from plants... only from meat & dairy. There's no such thing as an essential carbohydrate.

It's a very unhealthy fad. It slowly kills the liver, weakens your bones, and creates a shortage of nutrients necessary to maintain a healthy chemical balance. This is part of the reason why vegans suffer a much higher rate of anxiety & depression related health issues. It's very unhealthy.

Some veggies are good for you, but trying to deny the obvious fact that humans were designed to eat meat... that's just foolishness.

---

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. A whole food plant based diet provides all of the nutrients you need for health. There is nothing, I repeat nothing that you need from meat, and there is nothing you cannot get from plants such as protein, amino acids, and omega 3s. What you won't get from plants is heart disease, embolic strokes, type 2 diabetes and some cancers. You will get micronutrients and phytochemicals that are required for a fully functioning immune system. The research is overwhelming. www.nutritionfacts.org

---

You're simply wrong. It's obvious that you are a vegan, so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you of the truth. It takes a special type of person to try and save people from a cult... I'm not one of them.
Best of luck with your veggies.

---

It's not just 'vegan.' There is plenty of vegan junk food that is unhealthy. A healthy diet comes from a whole food plant based diet. Fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds and whole grains. Avoiding saturated fats, processed foods, dairy products and meat. I've spent years researching this subject. I've seen major health issues reversed through changing to a whole food plant based diet, along with natural weight loss.

---

^^^ I've experienced this coupled with 3-5 oz 90%+ lean grass fed beef or fish/fowl every meal

---

That's great. Are you on any meds, and what is your typical total cholesterol and BP, if you don't mind I ask?

---

Long story short

Lost nearly 60 lbs and of course, EVERYTHING, health wise got astronomically(like that word?) better

---

Like the word, LOL. Fantastic results. What we eat is critical to our overall health. Most MD's don't understand nutrition, because it is not taught in med school, but that is beginning to change now.

ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim.

Oldbear83 said:

---

ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim.

---

Since you like to quote me, I challenge you to find anywhere I have demanded anyone to live by my diet on this board.

You can find posts with the intent to show people a better way, how to maintain/regain their health, and avoid the morbidity of chronic disease management pervasive to our medical industry. A standard American diet leads to unnecessary chronic health issues.

Oldbear83 said:

---

ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim.

---

Which post?

Oldbear83 said:

---

ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim.

---

Dude, you are trying to convince a true believer to leave the cult.
It's like trying to explain a computer to a cat: they don't have the capacity to understand, and they think the whole idea is beneath them anyway.

I have personally reversed type 2 with a diet of raw goat milk, grass fed beef, wild game, raw milk butter, backyard eggs and raw milk cheeses. I was raw vegan for almost a year, and my allergies exploded into debilitating sicknesses. It took almost a year to recover from veganism (very damaging to the liver & kidneys). Then I was able to stay the new diet. 5 years later, I have lost about 20lbs without even trying. My blood sugars are normal. BP is normal. Never miss a day due to allergies anymore. Healthier skin. No more indigestion issues. Sleep very well at night.

Good luck trying to convince a vegan that my story is true. They never believe it. It conflicts with their theology. It's a threat to their identity. It's best to just say a prayer for them, before you enjoy your grass fed T bone.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim.

---

Since you like to quote me, I challenge you to find anywhere I have demanded anyone to live by my diet on this board.

You can find posts with the intent to show people a better way, how to maintain/regain their health, and avoid the morbidity of chronic disease management pervasive to our medical industry. A standard American diet leads to unnecessary chronic health issues.

---

You have the writing style matching Antifa's behavior at public events

Your "better way" is completely subjective bias, simply the extreme opposite of the Paleo fanatics.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

corncob pipe said:

---

When I eat meat I'm prone to greasy Brahma bull ass..

When I eat vegan my ass stays fresh as a mountain stream...

---

A meat centric diet promotes IBS.

---

And from what I read/hear from vegans, a vegan diet promotes arrogance and intolerance.

---

Examples?

---

Many of your posts in this thread.

Look, you want to be vegan, fine. Great if it works for you, but you have no medical credentials to say what works for everyone else. You reject meat - again, fine for you but you have no business demanding someone else live by your chosen diet.

You're down on dairy products, for example. But my wife was specifically directed by her doctor to include milk and cheese in her diet, in order to protect her bones, because as an Asian she is at higher risk of loss of bone density due to a lack of dairy calcium. I'm not telling anyone else they have to include milk and cheese in their diet, but anyone trashing milk and cheese in general is ignorant of the facts and intolerant of other people's needs and choices.

---

Your overstating the facts once again does nothing for proving your point. I've never demanded anyone live by my diet. I've shared what I know to be a diet that adds longevity, and can prevent and even reverse certain medical conditions and disease, for the purpose of helping others who are interested in a healthier lifestyle. You just don't like me, and want to dismiss anything I have to say. However, this is something that I know quite a bit about for various reasons, and I do have some credentials in this area. I've never asked you or anyone to just take my word for it. I've given you links and references to prominent MDs and researchers. I can tell you that Dr.'s Colin Campbell, Joel Fuhrman, John McDougall, Caldwell Esselstyn, Neal Barnard, Joel Kahn, Kim Williams, Dean Ornish, Baxter Montgomery, Michael Greger, and Garth Davis all will tell you a meat centric diet is harmful, and that more than anything else, dairy is one of the worse things you can eat or drink. The independent non dairy industry sponsored research reflects this. Especially many Asians are lactose intolerant. Research shows that adding dairy to your diet pushes your body chemistry to be more acidic, and you body will actually leach calcium from your bones to buffer the acidity. That's one reason why studies have shown that countries that consume the most in dairy products have the highest hip fracture rates and osteoporosis. Don't take my word for it, go to nutritionfacts.org .
Dairy is full of IGF1, and other growth hormones (not to mention cholesterol) that promote rapid growth in a calf, which also happens to fuel rapid growing cancer cells. I recommend your wife consult with some other doctors that are knowledgeable in nutrition, and not a doctor that has been educated by the dairy industry. Call Dr. John McDougall www.drmcdougall.com, or Dr. Joel Fuhrman, www.drfuhrman.com, or Dr. Neal Barnard www.pcrm.org, Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn at the Cleveland Clinic, or Dean Ornish at University of California, San Francisco.

---

If someone told me right now I could add an entire year to my life if I gave up eating steak . . . . my response would be "Why would I do that? I'd have to go a whole extra year without steak!"

Quality and enjoyment of life matter too. And I enjoy eating meat. Granted a lot of it is lean meat from wild game that I harvest myself, as opposed to fattened up, hormone laced beef. But I also eat my fair share of steak, chicken, and fish at restaurants.

Anecdotally, I will say that by FAR the best I've ever felt in my life, both physically and mentally, was the couple of months I went strict keto and periodic fasting (butter and coconut oil coffee in the morning and then no food at all until evening, which consisted almost exclusively of fat and protein. Virtually no carbs whatsoever and absolutely no sugar at all). I had more energy, better mental clarity, better focus, better sleep, I was never hungry and had no lulls or crashes during the day. The only problem I had was that I shed fat and weight like crazy on it, and I'm already naturally lean (6'5", 195 lbs) so I really didn't want to lose weight. That, and the diet was hard to make work on a busy schedule with travel.

Maybe a vegan diet would have similar effects, but I'm just pointing it out because it was basically the exact OPPOSITE of the diet you are proposing. And while we're speaking anecdotally, the people I know who have lived the longest and healthiest into old age are folks who pretty much had eggs, bacon, and buttered toast their entire lives, and meat at every single dinner.

bearassnekkid said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

corncob pipe said:

---

When I eat meat I'm prone to greasy Brahma bull ass..

When I eat vegan my ass stays fresh as a mountain stream...

---

A meat centric diet promotes IBS.

---

And from what I read/hear from vegans, a vegan diet promotes arrogance and intolerance.

---

Examples?

---

Many of your posts in this thread.

Look, you want to be vegan, fine. Great if it works for you, but you have no medical credentials to say what works for everyone else. You reject meat - again, fine for you but you have no business demanding someone else live by your chosen diet.

You're down on dairy products, for example. But my wife was specifically directed by her doctor to include milk and cheese in her diet, in order to protect her bones, because as an Asian she is at higher risk of loss of bone density due to a lack of dairy calcium. I'm not telling anyone else they have to include milk and cheese in their diet, but anyone trashing milk and cheese in general is ignorant of the facts and intolerant of other people's needs and choices.

---

Your overstating the facts once again does nothing for proving your point. I've never demanded anyone live by my diet. I've shared what I know to be a diet that adds longevity, and can prevent and even reverse certain medical conditions and disease, for the purpose of helping others who are interested in a healthier lifestyle. You just don't like me, and want to dismiss anything I have to say. However, this is something that I know quite a bit about for various reasons, and I do have some credentials in this area. I've never asked you or anyone to just take my word for it. I've given you links and references to prominent MDs and researchers. I can tell you that Dr.'s Colin Campbell, Joel Fuhrman, John McDougall, Caldwell Esselstyn, Neal Barnard, Joel Kahn, Kim Williams, Dean Ornish, Baxter Montgomery, Michael Greger, and Garth Davis all will tell you a meat centric diet is harmful, and that more than anything else, dairy is one of the worse things you can eat or drink. The independent non dairy industry sponsored research reflects this. Especially many Asians are lactose intolerant. Research shows that adding dairy to your diet pushes your body chemistry to be more acidic, and you body will actually leach calcium from your bones to buffer the acidity. That's one reason why studies have shown that countries that consume the most in dairy products have the highest hip fracture rates and osteoporosis. Don't take my word for it, go to nutritionfacts.org .
Dairy is full of IGF1, and other growth hormones (not to mention cholesterol) that promote rapid growth in a calf, which also happens to fuel rapid growing cancer cells. I recommend your wife consult with some other doctors that are knowledgeable in nutrition, and not a doctor that has been educated by the dairy industry. Call Dr. John McDougall www.drmcdougall.com, or Dr. Joel Fuhrman, www.drfuhrman.com, or Dr. Neal Barnard www.pcrm.org, Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn at the Cleveland Clinic, or Dean Ornish at University of California, San Francisco.

---

If someone told me right now I could add an entire year to my life if I gave up eating steak . . . . my response would "Why would I do that? I'd have to go a whole extra year without steak!"

Quality and enjoyment of life matter too. And I enjoy eating meat. Granted a lot of it is lean meat from wild game that I harvest myself, as opposed to fattened up, hormone laced beef. But I also eat my fair share of steak, chicken, and fish at restaurants.

Anecdotally, I will say that by FAR the best I've ever felt in my life, both physically and mentally, was the couple of months I went strict keto and periodic fasting (butter and coconut oil coffee in the morning and then no food at all until evening, which consisted almost exclusively of fat and protein. Virtually no carbs whatsoever and absolutely no sugar at all). I had more energy, better mental clarity, better focus, better sleep, I was never hungry and had no lulls or crashes during the day. The only problem I had was that I shed fat and weight like crazy on it, and I'm already naturally lean (6'5", 195 lbs) so I really didn't want to lose weight. That, and the diet was hard to make work on a busy schedule with travel.

Maybe a vegan diet would have similar effects, but I'm just pointing it out because it was basically the exact OPPOSITE of the diet you are proposing. And while we're speaking anecdotally, the people I know who have lived the longest and healthiest into old age are folks who pretty much had eggs, bacon, and buttered toast their entire lives, and meat at every single dinner.

---

The Atkins diet where you are in ketosis is not sustainable for long periods of time, and over time it promotes atherosclerosis. It's not a matter of living a year longer. It's living maybe 20 years longer, active and healthy in the end years. In some cases it could be 40 - 50 years longer if you avoid sudden death from a heart attack. Blue zone people who have the longest lives without the morbidity we have in this country all have in common whole plant based foods with limited meat and dairy. It's not just being vegan. There is plenty of vegan junk food. to stay away from.

ShooterTX said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim.

---

Dude, you are trying to convince a true believer to leave the cult.
It's like trying to explain a computer to a cat: they don't have the capacity to understand, and they think the whole idea is beneath them anyway.

I have personally reversed type 2 with a diet of raw goat milk, grass fed beef, wild game, raw milk butter, backyard eggs and raw milk cheeses. I was raw vegan for almost a year, and my allergies exploded into debilitating sicknesses. It took almost a year to recover from veganism (very damaging to the liver & kidneys). Then I was able to stay the new diet. 5 years later, I have lost about 20lbs without even trying. My blood sugars are normal. BP is normal. Never miss a day due to allergies anymore. Healthier skin. No more indigestion issues. Sleep very well at night.

Good luck trying to convince a vegan that my story is true. They never believe it. It conflicts with their theology. It's a threat to their identity. It's best to just say a prayer for them, before you enjoy your grass fed T bone.

---

It's not a threat to me. I don't believe your problems are related to a whole food plant based diet though. They may be related to a vegan junk food diet. And you may be allergic to certain foods that you should not eat. I've been associated with 1000's of people who eat a whole food plant base diet and none of them have experienced what you describe. MD's who understand nutrition use a WFPB diet to reverse type 2 diabetes, cardio vascular disease, and other chronic disease. It's not possible for a whole food plant based diet to damage the liver and kidneys. Alcohol will damage your liver and kidneys. It is possible for a high protein diet to damage kidneys. That's why nephrologists recommend vegetarian meals for individuals with advance kidney disease. If you are not on any meds, non-diabetic and have normal BP of 105/75 +/-, a total cholesterol of 150 or less, and LDL ~ 80 without medication, I'd say you're in good shape. There are some people who appear to be able to handle a diet high in cholesterol and saturated fats. They are the exception and not the rule.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim.

---

Since you like to quote me, I challenge you to find anywhere I have demanded anyone to live by my diet on this board.

You can find posts with the intent to show people a better way, how to maintain/regain their health, and avoid the morbidity of chronic disease management pervasive to our medical industry. A standard American diet leads to unnecessary chronic health issues.

---

You have the writing style matching Antifa's behavior at public events

Your "better way" is completely subjective bias, simply the extreme opposite of the Paleo fanatics.

---

So, no quotes of TS demanding people to live by his diet?

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim.

---

Since you like to quote me, I challenge you to find anywhere I have demanded anyone to live by my diet on this board.

You can find posts with the intent to show people a better way, how to maintain/regain their health, and avoid the morbidity of chronic disease management pervasive to our medical industry. A standard American diet leads to unnecessary chronic health issues.

---

You have the writing style matching Antifa's behavior at public events

Your "better way" is completely subjective bias, simply the extreme opposite of the Paleo fanatics.

---

So, no quotes of TS demanding people to live by his diet?

---

It's apparent to anyone reading through this thread. There's no use pointing that out to those who share his tactics.

So I'm not wasting the effort I know would be ignored.

Will be interesting to see if it catches on. Will also be interesting 30 years from now when we see what side effects it has on our bodies and health...

Not saying it's a bad product but we've found a lot of long-term ramifications for our "innovations"

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim.

---

Since you like to quote me, I challenge you to find anywhere I have demanded anyone to live by my diet on this board.

You can find posts with the intent to show people a better way, how to maintain/regain their health, and avoid the morbidity of chronic disease management pervasive to our medical industry. A standard American diet leads to unnecessary chronic health issues.

---

You have the writing style matching Antifa's behavior at public events

Your "better way" is completely subjective bias, simply the extreme opposite of the Paleo fanatics.

---

So, no quotes of TS demanding people to live by his diet?

---

It's apparent to anyone reading through this thread. There's no use pointing that out to those who share his tactics.

So I'm not wasting the effort I know would be ignored.

---

Oh no, not at all. If you actually backed up one of your charges with actual quotes it would be unignorably rare.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim.

---

Since you like to quote me, I challenge you to find anywhere I have demanded anyone to live by my diet on this board.

You can find posts with the intent to show people a better way, how to maintain/regain their health, and avoid the morbidity of chronic disease management pervasive to our medical industry. A standard American diet leads to unnecessary chronic health issues.

---

You have the writing style matching Antifa's behavior at public events

Your "better way" is completely subjective bias, simply the extreme opposite of the Paleo fanatics.

---

So, no quotes of TS demanding people to live by his diet?

---

It's apparent to anyone reading through this thread. There's no use pointing that out to those who share his tactics.

So I'm not wasting the effort I know would be ignored.

---

Oh no, not at all. If you actually backed up one of your charges with actual quotes it would be unignorably rare.

---

I answer according to the merit of the inquirer.

You don't merit.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim.

---

Since you like to quote me, I challenge you to find anywhere I have demanded anyone to live by my diet on this board.

You can find posts with the intent to show people a better way, how to maintain/regain their health, and avoid the morbidity of chronic disease management pervasive to our medical industry. A standard American diet leads to unnecessary chronic health issues.

---

You have the writing style matching Antifa's behavior at public events

Your "better way" is completely subjective bias, simply the extreme opposite of the Paleo fanatics.

---

So, no quotes of TS demanding people to live by his diet?

---

It's apparent to anyone reading through this thread. There's no use pointing that out to those who share his tactics.

So I'm not wasting the effort I know would be ignored.

---

Oh no, not at all. If you actually backed up one of your charges with actual quotes it would be unignorably rare.

---

I answer according to the merit of the inquirer.

You don't merit.

---

What does your integrity merit?

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim.

---

Since you like to quote me, I challenge you to find anywhere I have demanded anyone to live by my diet on this board.

You can find posts with the intent to show people a better way, how to maintain/regain their health, and avoid the morbidity of chronic disease management pervasive to our medical industry. A standard American diet leads to unnecessary chronic health issues.

---

You have the writing style matching Antifa's behavior at public events

Your "better way" is completely subjective bias, simply the extreme opposite of the Paleo fanatics.

---

So, no quotes of TS demanding people to live by his diet?

---

It's apparent to anyone reading through this thread. There's no use pointing that out to those who share his tactics.

So I'm not wasting the effort I know would be ignored.

---

Oh no, not at all. If you actually backed up one of your charges with actual quotes it would be unignorably rare.

---

I answer according to the merit of the inquirer.

You don't merit.

---

What does your integrity merit?

---

More than I have ever seen from you.

Remember, you did ask.

Sincerely...what do you eat? I've thought about doing vegan/vegetarian maybe 2 days a week just for a change of pace but the food is so terrible tasting to me...or in some cases just not better for you in terms of calories.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim.

---

Since you like to quote me, I challenge you to find anywhere I have demanded anyone to live by my diet on this board.

You can find posts with the intent to show people a better way, how to maintain/regain their health, and avoid the morbidity of chronic disease management pervasive to our medical industry. A standard American diet leads to unnecessary chronic health issues.

---

You have the writing style matching Antifa's behavior at public events

Your "better way" is completely subjective bias, simply the extreme opposite of the Paleo fanatics.

---

So, no quotes of TS demanding people to live by his diet?

---

It's apparent to anyone reading through this thread. There's no use pointing that out to those who share his tactics.

So I'm not wasting the effort I know would be ignored.

---

Oh no, not at all. If you actually backed up one of your charges with actual quotes it would be unignorably rare.

---

I answer according to the merit of the inquirer.

You don't merit.

---

What does your integrity merit?

---

More than I have ever seen from you.

Remember, you did ask.

---

31 posts in this thread before TS made his first. Six of those 31 were yours. Let's examine all of the posts by TS for evidence of demands that we live by his diet.
"The McLean was created to try and generate a market. There already is a plant based market out there that wants these products. It will continue and grow. It is one step closer to healthier eating."

"You clearly do not know what you are talking about. A whole food plant based diet provides all of the nutrients you need for health. There is nothing, I repeat nothing that you need from meat, and there is nothing you cannot get from plants such as protein, amino acids, and omega 3s. What you won't get from plants is heart disease, embolic strokes, type 2 diabetes and some cancers. You will get micronutrients and phytochemicals that are required for a fully functioning immune system. The research is overwhelming. www.nutritionfacts.org"

"A meat centric diet promotes IBS."

"It's not just 'vegan.' There is plenty of vegan junk food that is unhealthy. A healthy diet comes from a whole food plant based diet. Fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds and whole grains. Avoiding saturated fats, processed foods, dairy products and meat. I've spent years researching this subject. I've seen major health issues reversed through changing to a whole food plant based diet, along with natural weight loss."

"That's great. Are you on any meds, and what is your typical total cholesterol and BP, if you don't mind I ask?"

"And from what I read/hear from vegans, a vegan diet promotes arrogance and intolerance."

Oops, no that was your post...

"Examples?"

" "

"Your overstating the facts once again does nothing for proving your point. I've never demanded anyone live by my diet. I've shared what I know to be a diet that adds longevity, and can prevent and even reverse certain medical conditions and disease, for the purpose of helping others who are interested in a healthier lifestyle. You just don't like me, and want to dismiss anything I have to say. However, this is something that I know quite a bit about for various reasons, and I do have some credentials in this area. I've never asked you or anyone to just take my word for it. I've given you links and references to prominent MDs and researchers. I can tell you that Dr.'s Colin Campbell, Joel Fuhrman, John McDougall, Caldwell Esselstyn, Neal Barnard, Joel Kahn, Kim Williams, Dean Ornish, Baxter Montgomery, Michael Greger, and Garth Davis all will tell you a meat centric diet is harmful, and that more than anything else, dairy is one of the worse things you can eat or drink. The independent non dairy industry sponsored research reflects this. Especially many Asians are lactose intolerant. Research shows that adding dairy to your diet pushes your body chemistry to be more acidic, and you body will actually leach calcium from your bones to buffer the acidity. That's one reason why studies have shown that countries that consume the most in dairy products have the highest hip fracture rates and osteoporosis. Don't take my word for it, go to nutritionfacts.org .

Dairy is full of IGF1, and other growth hormones (not to mention cholesterol) that promote rapid growth in a calf, which also happens to fuel rapid growing cancer cells. I recommend your wife consult with some other doctors that are knowledgeable in nutrition, and not a doctor that has been educated by the dairy industry. Call Dr. John McDougall www.drmcdougall.com, or Dr. Joel Fuhrman, www.drfuhrman.com, or Dr. Neal Barnard www.pcrm.org, Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn at the Cleveland Clinic, or Dean Ornish at University of California, San Francisco."

"Like the word, LOL. Fantastic results. What we eat is critical to our overall health. Most MD's don't understand nutrition, because it is not taught in med school, but that is beginning to change now."

And then your claim: "ts: "I've never demanded anyone live by my diet."

Anyone reading your posts here knows that is a false claim."

So, all in one place, just show us the demand. You can do it.

Gotta remind you again quash, I appreciate all the attention, but I'm married and you are headed for stalker territory.

I explained why I'm not playing your game, so you're just going to have to settle for playing by yourself.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Gotta remind you again quash, I appreciate all the attention, but I'm married and you are headed for stalker territory.

I explained why I'm not playing your game, so you're just going to have to settle for playing by yourself.

---

Or maybe with yourself.... I'm sure you have experience with that.