ShooterTX said:

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TexasScientist said:

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ShooterTX said:

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cms186 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Veganism is a self correcting fad... they will all die from malnutrition.
The meatless burger is an attempt to get the last few dollars from a dying group of suicidal idiots.

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now I dont think thats true, as long as you have a balanced diet, Veganism can give you all the nutrients you need, it might be boring as hell, but you can live a perfectly normal life as a Vegan

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It's called "essential fatty acids". No matter what BS the vegans will tell you, you can't get them from plants... only from meat & dairy. There's no such thing as an essential carbohydrate.

It's a very unhealthy fad. It slowly kills the liver, weakens your bones, and creates a shortage of nutrients necessary to maintain a healthy chemical balance. This is part of the reason why vegans suffer a much higher rate of anxiety & depression related health issues. It's very unhealthy.

Some veggies are good for you, but trying to deny the obvious fact that humans were designed to eat meat... that's just foolishness.

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You clearly do not know what you are talking about. A whole food plant based diet provides all of the nutrients you need for health. There is nothing, I repeat nothing that you need from meat, and there is nothing you cannot get from plants such as protein, amino acids, and omega 3s. What you won't get from plants is heart disease, embolic strokes, type 2 diabetes and some cancers. You will get micronutrients and phytochemicals that are required for a fully functioning immune system. The research is overwhelming. www.nutritionfacts.org

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You're simply wrong. It's obvious that you are a vegan, so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you of the truth. It takes a special type of person to try and save people from a cult... I'm not one of them.
Best of luck with your veggies.

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Vegan is not the answer in and of itself. There is plenty of unhealthy vegan junk food out there. French fries are technically vegan. Truth is based in science. A whole food plant based diet (which can be vegan) is the optimum healthy diet. Why do you object to improving someone's longevity and quality of life in their later years? I've seen many people reverse heart disease, get off of their statins and blood pressure meds - lowering their cholesterol (without statins) and BP without BP meds. I've seen people reverse type 2 diabetes, who were taking four shots of insulin per day, get totally off of their meds with no clinical signs of disease. I've seen some interesting cancer results, particularly with prostate and beast cancer. I've seen other chronic disease and autoimmune diseases either reversed or greatly improved though an optimal nutrition plant based diet. You never see this happen from using drugs. In fact, most doctors will tell you once you start using statins, BP meds, or diabetes meds, you will be on them for the rest of your life. And, they usually don't tell you about all of the meds they eventually will end up prescribing to counter all of the side effects from the drugs you are taking.

Joel Fuhrman has coined the term "nutritarian" for someone eating an optimal nutritious plant based diet, to avoid the vegan junk food.

Oldbear83 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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This is not the first time a fast food restaurant paid more attention to fads than facts.

Anyone remember the McLean?

I certainly recall its end, and expect the same for the Impossible Burger and that fake chicken nugget venture KFC is rolling out.

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The McLean was created to try and generate a market. There already is a plant based market out there that wants these products. It will continue and grow. It is one step closer to healthier eating.

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Not really. As I have said more than once, the 'Impossible' is prepared using the same animal fat and grill as other entrees, and so it's not going to be any better for you than a bag of french fries.

That's why I don't have high hopes for this one. I agree that there is a market for healthy eating, including low-fat foods which include meat products, but this one is far more spin than substance.

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I don't really disagree. I don't believe it is prepared with animal fat. Although it may be cooked on the same grill, and it probably has unneeded oil in it, and it may not be any better for you than a bag of french fries. Some may use it as a transition to healthier eating.

Florda_mike said:

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TexasScientist said:

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ShooterTX said:

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TexasScientist said:

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ShooterTX said:

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cms186 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Veganism is a self correcting fad... they will all die from malnutrition.
The meatless burger is an attempt to get the last few dollars from a dying group of suicidal idiots.

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now I dont think thats true, as long as you have a balanced diet, Veganism can give you all the nutrients you need, it might be boring as hell, but you can live a perfectly normal life as a Vegan

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It's called "essential fatty acids". No matter what BS the vegans will tell you, you can't get them from plants... only from meat & dairy. There's no such thing as an essential carbohydrate.

It's a very unhealthy fad. It slowly kills the liver, weakens your bones, and creates a shortage of nutrients necessary to maintain a healthy chemical balance. This is part of the reason why vegans suffer a much higher rate of anxiety & depression related health issues. It's very unhealthy.

Some veggies are good for you, but trying to deny the obvious fact that humans were designed to eat meat... that's just foolishness.

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You clearly do not know what you are talking about. A whole food plant based diet provides all of the nutrients you need for health. There is nothing, I repeat nothing that you need from meat, and there is nothing you cannot get from plants such as protein, amino acids, and omega 3s. What you won't get from plants is heart disease, embolic strokes, type 2 diabetes and some cancers. You will get micronutrients and phytochemicals that are required for a fully functioning immune system. The research is overwhelming. www.nutritionfacts.org

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You're simply wrong. It's obvious that you are a vegan, so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you of the truth. It takes a special type of person to try and save people from a cult... I'm not one of them.
Best of luck with your veggies.

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It's not just 'vegan.' There is plenty of vegan junk food that is unhealthy. A healthy diet comes from a whole food plant based diet. Fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds and whole grains. Avoiding saturated fats, processed foods, dairy products and meat. I've spent years researching this subject. I've seen major health issues reversed through changing to a whole food plant based diet, along with natural weight loss.

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^^^ I've experienced this coupled with 3-5 oz 90%+ lean grass fed beef or fish/fowl every meal

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I'm glad for you. I don't know of anyone who has gotten off of their heart meds, lowered their total cholesterol to less than 150, lowered their BP to 107/70, or who became non-diabetic by eating lean grass fed beef, or fish/fowl every meal. But I sure do know people who have done it by going whole food plant based. You're an anomaly and outlier. Keep up what you are doing.

TS: "Some may use it as a transition to healthier eating."

It will go the way of the McLean burger.

Oldbear83 said:

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TS: "Some may use it as a transition to healthier eating."

It will go the way of the McLean burger.

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"That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier". - Results of a long term diet of high cholesterol, saturated fat, hormones, processed foods, casein, antibiotics, and heavy metals.

TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TS: "Some may use it as a transition to healthier eating."

It will go the way of the McLean burger.

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"That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier". - Results of a long term diet of high cholesterol, saturated fat, hormones, processed foods, casein, antibiotics, and heavy metals.

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You are wrong yet again.

My saying comes from my diagnosis of Pseudomyxoma Peritonei in 2006, a cancer which at the time was thought to be terminal. Fortunately, while incurable it is treatable, and by the way it has nothing to do with diet, genetics, or any other known vector of transmission at this time. PMP affects ~300 people worldwide each year, and is dangerous because - aside from weight gain and high blood pressure - does not have any distinct symptoms until the tumors metastasize, at which time the free-floating tumors attack multiple internal organs simultaneously.

For this reason, most PMP patients only discover the tumors when they metastasize and the cancer is in Stage IV, with catastrophic consequences. I was lucky, because I ruptured my appendix while passing a kidney stone, and during the surgery a mass was discovered and tested, found to be malignant.


https://rarediseases.org/rare-diseases/pseudomyxoma-peritonei/

https://www.macmillan.org.uk/information-and-support/pseudomyxoma-peritonei-pmp##targetText=Pseudomyxoma%20peritonei%20(PMP)%20is%20a,tissue%20that%20lines%20the%20abdomen).

https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseases/7488/pseudomyxoma-peritonei

The diagnosis in 2006 was traumatic for my family, not least because the oncologist at Texas Oncology was woefully behind on PMP treatments and research. The MD Anderson Cancer Center was much better prepared, even though I was and am the only PMP patient at the Houston Medical Center location.

I joined a support group for PMP patients and their families, and was able to share my experiences and offer emotional support to others. Sadly, even with treatment only about 10% of patients diagnosed with PMP live beyond five years, which means I have lost friends to this cancer over the years in addition to fighting it myself. I am also fully aware that because the cancer is incurable, and the treatments cannot completely stop the tumor growth, the damn thing will kill me one day, and while I am very grateful for my doctors, my friends in the support group who take my continued survival now thirteen years past the diagnosis as hope for their own success, and my family, I am still plagued with the effects of the cancer, which I do not care to discuss in detail for what I hope would be obvious reasons. I will say that I am fully aware of the effects of my diet choices on my quality of life, as vegetables and whole grains are not just matters of taste but help me in many ways. I have done far more research and consulting with my doctors on the matter of meat, and what I have found conclusively supports meat, including beef, as a healthy choice when prepared correctly and in proper proportions. I would never eat one of the 'Impossible Whoppers' for the simple reason that, unlike beef, I really don't know what is in it and therefore would be taking some risk in eating one. A small risk, to be sure, but given my condition it makes no sense to take any risks, when my doctors, from my PCP to my oncologist, assure me there is no danger to enjoying a burger I prepare myself with 90% lean Texas beef.

I try very hard not to use profanity, but the next time you want to be witty about a member's tagline, something chosen to represent a meaningful capsule of their identity, TexasScientist, you may want to try a bit harder to actually have a fulking clue about the matter. Virtue signalling as you do on this one just makes you look like an arrogant, clueless a s s h o l e.

Oldbear83 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TS: "Some may use it as a transition to healthier eating."

It will go the way of the McLean burger.

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"That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier". - Results of a long term diet of high cholesterol, saturated fat, hormones, processed foods, casein, antibiotics, and heavy metals.

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You are wrong yet again.

My saying comes from my diagnosis of Pseudomyxoma Peritonei in 2006, a cancer which at the time was thought to be terminal. Fortunately, while incurable it is treatable, and by the way it has nothing to do with diet, genetics, or any other known vector of transmission at this time. PMP affects ~300 people worldwide each year, and is dangerous because - aside from weight gain and high blood pressure - does not have any distinct symptoms until the tumors metastasize, at which time the free-floating tumors attack multiple internal organs simultaneously.

For this reason, most PMP patients only discover the tumors when they metastasize and the cancer is in Stage IV, with catastrophic consequences. I was lucky, because I ruptured my appendix while passing a kidney stone, and during the surgery a mass was discovered and tested, found to be malignant.


https://rarediseases.org/rare-diseases/pseudomyxoma-peritonei/

https://www.macmillan.org.uk/information-and-support/pseudomyxoma-peritonei-pmp##targetText=Pseudomyxoma%20peritonei%20(PMP)%20is%20a,tissue%20that%20lines%20the%20abdomen).

https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseases/7488/pseudomyxoma-peritonei

The diagnosis in 2006 was traumatic for my family, not least because the oncologist at Texas Oncology was woefully behind on PMP treatments and research. The MD Anderson Cancer Center was much better prepared, even though I was and am the only PMP patient at the Houston Medical Center location.

I joined a support group for PMP patients and their families, and was able to share my experiences and offer emotional support to others. Sadly, even with treatment only about 10% of patients diagnosed with PMP live beyond five years, which means I have lost friends to this cancer over the years in addition to fighting it myself. I am also fully aware that because the cancer is incurable, and the treatments cannot completely stop the tumor growth, the damn thing will kill me one day, and while I am very grateful for my doctors, my friends in the support group who take my continued survival now thirteen years past the diagnosis as hope for their own success, and my family, I am still plagued with the effects of the cancer, which I do not care to discuss in detail for what I hope would be obvious reasons. I will say that I am fully aware of the effects of my diet choices on my quality of life, as vegetables and whole grains are not just matters of taste but help me in many ways. I have done far more research and consulting with my doctors on the matter of meat, and what I have found conclusively supports meat, including beef, as a healthy choice when prepared correctly and in proper proportions. I would never eat one of the 'Impossible Whoppers' for the simple reason that, unlike beef, I really don't know what is in it and therefore would be taking some risk in eating one. A small risk, to be sure, but given my condition it makes no sense to take any risks, when my doctors, from my PCP to my oncologist, assure me there is no danger to enjoying a burger I prepare myself with 90% lean Texas beef.

I try very hard not to use profanity, but the next time you want to be witty about a member's tagline, something chosen to represent a meaningful capsule of their identity, TexasScientist, you may want to try a bit harder to actually have a fulking clue about the matter. Virtue signalling I as you do on this one just makes you look like an arrogant, clueless a s s h o l e.

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I am sorry for your condition and the fight you are in with cancer. Cancer is problematic, and I have never said that diet is the sole approach to dealing with cancer, nor have I said that diet is the only factor that influences cancer. My comment was not directed at you personally. I was using your signature to make a point.

I do know objective independent research overwhelming shows that a meat centric diet is harmful to overall health. (Maybe some can get away without serious health impact with less than 10% of their diet.) Many physicians, including oncologists, have not taken the time to educate themselves in this area. Some don't want to because they enjoy meat themselves, IMO. Since there is no money in it for big pharma, there has been no incentive for the research to be pushed to the medical community. So, it has been slowly making its way out there, and is just now beginning to catch on and spread within the medical community (i.e. American College of Cardiology).

Again, my comment on your signature is directed, not at you personally, but in general context to the consequences of a long term unhealthy diet. - In the context that as a consequence of a long term unhealthy diet, if we go through invasive procedures, like by pass surgery, stents, etc., and if we then continue to eat unhealthy, that heart disease, strokes, diabetes, etc. will eventually overtake us. Invasive procedures, and pills to control symptoms only forestall the inevitable.

cms186 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Veganism is a self correcting fad... they will all die from malnutrition.
The meatless burger is an attempt to get the last few dollars from a dying group of suicidal idiots.

---

now I dont think thats true, as long as you have a balanced diet, Veganism can give you all the nutrients you need, it might be boring as hell, but you can live a perfectly normal life as a Vegan

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Boring true, but I know multiple vegan people. They are doing fine. I just wouldn't want every facet of life restricted to making sure I ate no meat products, it's just too much work.

That said, nothing better than properly prepared brisket or ribs, in my best Ron Swanson voice.

TS: "Again, my comment on your signature is directed, not at you personally, but in general context to the consequences of a long term unhealthy diet."

I see you are doubling down on your clueless attitude.

Maybe stop pretending you know more than the rest of us, maybe even stop and think that some of us actually have a point?

And please, stop pretending you know the first thing about what causes any cancer. Cancers are NOT caused by diet in most cases, and in many diet is no factor at all.

I'm all for folks eating a healthier and balanced diet, but you are still braying like an ass instead of checking yourself.

Oldbear83 said:

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TS: "Again, my comment on your signature is directed, not at you personally, but in general context to the consequences of a long term unhealthy diet."

I see you are doubling down on your clueless attitude.

Maybe stop pretending you know more than the rest of us, maybe even stop and think that some of us actually have a point?

And please, stop pretending you know the first thing about what causes any cancer. Cancers are NOT caused by diet in most cases, and in many diet is no factor at all.

I'm all for folks eating a healthier and balanced diet, but you are still braying like an ass instead of checking yourself.

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Show me where I ever said I know all about cancer or what causes all cancer. However, I do know quite a bit about diet and disease, including cancer, and there most certainly is a link with diet and some cancers and diet and propensity for all cancer, which is born out in research. There is more evidence, research and direct causal links between diet and diseases, such as atherosclerosis or heart disease, embolic stokes, type 2 diabetes, certain auto immune disorders, and other chronic disease. You don't have to believe me or listen to me, but I will continue with the message, because I have seen and helped people turn theIr health around and even avoid premature death through dietary change. Maybe some people don't want to here anything that doesn't fit their preconceived ideas.

I put the bigot on ignore.

Best decision of the week!

Oldbear83 said:

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I put the bigot on ignore.

Best decision of the week!

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Facts aren't bigoted.

quash said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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I put the bigot on ignore.

Best decision of the week!

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Facts aren't bigoted.

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True, but some people are. And when people become bigots, they ignore all facts that get in the way of their opinion, and become belligerent, even abusive, in their behavior.

People who embrace vegan lifestyles tend to peak of avoiding processed foods.

The plant burgers are very highly processed

Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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I put the bigot on ignore.

Best decision of the week!

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Facts aren't bigoted.

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True, but some people are. And when people become bigots, they ignore all facts that get in the way of their opinion, and become belligerent, even abusive, in their behavior.

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I'll stack my comments on this board next yours for judging under your above standard any day.

I haven't tried one and doubt I ever will. I know I won't spend my money buying one so it would have to be because someone offers me one.

Plus I no longer eat fast food.

But I highly doubt the commercials that show people eating it and can't tell the difference. I doubt that.

I just don't see how a plant can taste like a burger. Like a real, 100% beef, grill cooked burger in your backyard.

A greasy, half meat, fake fast food frozen burger... maybe.