Florda_mike said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

You can't have "educated" conversation about politics with people that believe today's media

Sorry but true

---

What in the world?? The OP's points have nothing to do about the media?

To the person who started this thread. Why don't you vote for one of his opponents in the primary? Or do you live in a state or do you live in a state where the GOP has decided to rig its primary process so that Republicans get literally no vote in who the nominee will be?

PartyBear said:

---

To the person who started this thread. Why don't you vote for one of his opponents in the primary? Or do you live in a state or do you live in a state where the GOP has decided to rig its primary process so that Republicans get literally no vote in who the nominee will be?

---

I probably will. It won't matter. Texas is going Trump. At least for the nominee. A primary challenger is never going to get traction when Trump has 94% of Republican support. Mostly because most Republicans I think secretly believe he is the only person that can win, despite his many shortcomings.

A republican in current national elections has the entire media against them, a national culture of dependence on the government, lower popularity in key states like Texas and Florida. Republicans will not win the popular vote and the path to victory is growing increasingly difficult.

Florda_mike said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

You can't have "educated" conversation about politics with people that believe today's media

Sorry but true

---

You'll have to let me know which of my points was media influenced. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC or Fox except to laugh at the outrage. You don't have to buy into the sensational "Trump peed on hookers" stories to realize there have been significant shortcomings in his presidency. Which I have outlined at the top of the thread.

Grow up. Have a mature conversation. It serves us all better in the tribal environment we find ourselves.

BearTruth13 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

You can't have "educated" conversation about politics with people that believe today's media

Sorry but true

---

You'll have to let me know which of my points was media influenced. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC or Fox except to laugh at the outrage. You don't have to buy into the sensational "Trump peed on hookers" stories to realize there have been significant shortcomings in his presidency. Which I have outlined at the top of the thread.

Grow up. Have a mature conversation. It serves us all better in the tribal environment we find ourselves.

---

Good luck ending tribal environment here or anywhere

You're trying to play in middle of road and will get run over by the Democrat Socialist machine!

Dude I've been here for years past your 53rd post here

I've tried talking sense to the leftist fools you're trying to communicate with for years and THEY are the media propaganda koolaid guzzling Socialist pimps I'm complaining about. You're just feeding em red meat and don't know it

You just haven't realized the only thing between us and $15/hour Socialism is Donald Trump. When you realize that then you'll feel same about these leftist paid trolls that post here and everywhere

Best to ya

BearTruth13 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

You can't have "educated" conversation about politics with people that believe today's media

Sorry but true

---

You'll have to let me know which of my points was media influenced. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC or Fox except to laugh at the outrage. You don't have to buy into the sensational "Trump peed on hookers" stories to realize there have been significant shortcomings in his presidency. Which I have outlined at the top of the thread.

Grow up. Have a mature conversation. It serves us all better in the tribal environment we find ourselves.

---

Mikes just walking through his talking points hes got written on his hand, hes got to get the medi ain there somewhere

cms186 said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

You can't have "educated" conversation about politics with people that believe today's media

Sorry but true

---

You'll have to let me know which of my points was media influenced. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC or Fox except to laugh at the outrage. You don't have to buy into the sensational "Trump peed on hookers" stories to realize there have been significant shortcomings in his presidency. Which I have outlined at the top of the thread.

Grow up. Have a mature conversation. It serves us all better in the tribal environment we find ourselves.

---

Mikes just walking through his talking points hes got written on his hand, hes got to get the medi ain there somewhere

---

^^^ And here's what the Englishman, that has no investment in our country, has to say

Blah

Florda_mike said:

---

cms186 said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

You can't have "educated" conversation about politics with people that believe today's media

Sorry but true

---

You'll have to let me know which of my points was media influenced. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC or Fox except to laugh at the outrage. You don't have to buy into the sensational "Trump peed on hookers" stories to realize there have been significant shortcomings in his presidency. Which I have outlined at the top of the thread.

Grow up. Have a mature conversation. It serves us all better in the tribal environment we find ourselves.

---

Mikes just walking through his talking points hes got written on his hand, hes got to get the medi ain there somewhere

---

^^^ And here's what the Englishman, that has no investment in our country, has to say

Blah

---

Im not entirely sure why my Nationality should discount me from having an opinion on your country, plenty of people on here express their (often incorrect) views on mine, or is it just because i disagree with you? i'm sure if i were singing Trumps praises, you couldn't give 2 hoots where I was from.

BearTruth13 said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Which leaves us to pick between nut cases, narcissistic oddballs and full on loons .

---

Most of the people seriously in the running as Democrats fit into neither of these categories.

And, if we do elect a loon, I'd rather he be Andrew Yang than Trump. Yang actually cares about people who don't share his genes or his bed.

---

Gonna have to disagree with you there.

Warren/Bernie are full on loons. Their policies are the definition of pandering for votes and will negatively impact the country in severe ways.

Booker/Harris/Castro are narcissistic idiots that hate vast portions of the country.

Beto is the definition of an empty suit. His policies change day to day. He has no guiding principles.

Biden is legitimately too old and Dems won't pick him regardless. Yang and the rest will never get enough traction to make a meaningful push.

---

Since climate change is by far the most important issue to me--outweighing education, health care, immigration reform (despite frequent accessions from RWNJs on this board, I am NOT for open borders, but immigration has been the economic engine of this country since its founding and we need reforms that enable immigration without flooding us with unfunded liabilities) and other issues a distant second.

Republicans deny climate science and do it gleefully and sarcastically, displaying a level of callousness and ignorance that would be beneath contempt if it weren't currently our public policy position as a nation.

As long as the party and its political leaders continue to do that, I'll vote for Democrats in every election I vote in--national, state and local. A party that prioritizes limitless economic growth (a myth) over making sure the planet remains habitable is not pro-life in any sense that I understand it. And the Trump administration is endeavoring to push us backward when other first-world nations are working toward sustainability. That's confoundingly stupid and inexcusable.

Jinx 2 said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Which leaves us to pick between nut cases, narcissistic oddballs and full on loons .

---

Most of the people seriously in the running as Democrats fit into neither of these categories.

And, if we do elect a loon, I'd rather he be Andrew Yang than Trump. Yang actually cares about people who don't share his genes or his bed.

---

Gonna have to disagree with you there.

Warren/Bernie are full on loons. Their policies are the definition of pandering for votes and will negatively impact the country in severe ways.

Booker/Harris/Castro are narcissistic idiots that hate vast portions of the country.

Beto is the definition of an empty suit. His policies change day to day. He has no guiding principles.

Biden is legitimately too old and Dems won't pick him regardless. Yang and the rest will never get enough traction to make a meaningful push.

---

Since climate change is by far the most important issue to me--outweighing education, health care, immigration reform (despite frequent accessions from RWNJs on this board, I am NOT for open borders, but immigration has been the economic engine of this country since its founding and we need reforms that enable immigration without flooding us with unfunded liabilities) and other issues a distant second.

Republicans deny climate science and do it gleefully and sarcastically, displaying a level of callousness and ignorance that would be beneath contempt if it weren't currently our public policy position as a nation.

As long as the party and its political leaders continue to do that, I'll vote for Democrats in every election I vote in--national, state and local. A party that prioritizes limitless economic growth (a myth) over making sure the planet remains habitable is not pro-life in any sense that I understand it. And the Trump administration is endeavoring to push us backward when other first-world nations are working toward sustainability. That's confoundingly stupid and inexcusable.

---

God please help us from these loonies ^^^

Jinx 2 said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Which leaves us to pick between nut cases, narcissistic oddballs and full on loons .

---

Most of the people seriously in the running as Democrats fit into neither of these categories.

And, if we do elect a loon, I'd rather he be Andrew Yang than Trump. Yang actually cares about people who don't share his genes or his bed.

---

Gonna have to disagree with you there.

Warren/Bernie are full on loons. Their policies are the definition of pandering for votes and will negatively impact the country in severe ways.

Booker/Harris/Castro are narcissistic idiots that hate vast portions of the country.

Beto is the definition of an empty suit. His policies change day to day. He has no guiding principles.

Biden is legitimately too old and Dems won't pick him regardless. Yang and the rest will never get enough traction to make a meaningful push.

---

Since climate change is by far the most important issue to me--outweighing education, health care, immigration reform (despite frequent accessions from RWNJs on this board, I am NOT for open borders, but immigration has been the economic engine of this country since its founding and we need reforms that enable immigration without flooding us with unfunded liabilities) and other issues a distant second.

Republicans deny climate science and do it gleefully and sarcastically, displaying a level of callousness and ignorance that would be beneath contempt if it weren't currently our public policy position as a nation.

As long as the party and its political leaders continue to do that, I'll vote for Democrats in every election I vote in--national, state and local. A party that prioritizes limitless economic growth (a myth) over making sure the planet remains habitable is not pro-life in any sense that I understand it. And the Trump administration is endeavoring to push us backward when other first-world nations are working toward sustainability. That's confoundingly stupid and inexcusable.

---

More power to you. But I wholeheartedly disagree that Democrats relying on government intervention will ever solve climate issues. I used to feel the same way.

I work in the oil and gas industry. Once you see behind the curtain, you see the brilliance of the engineers and processes in this industry. With the proper profit motive, oil and gas will lead sustainable renewable energy efforts. Do you really think companies like Exxon and Shell are going to let themselves go out of business as green technology inevitably takes over? They will likely be leading the way.

The US government forcing radical and frankly stupid ideas on the citizenry will not work. India and China present a much bigger problem in terms of pollution than the US. We continue to cut emissions year after year. They do not.

Only the profit motive will force change in the market. It is basic human nature.

HuMcK said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Which leaves us to pick between nut cases, narcissistic oddballs and full on loons .

---

Most of the people seriously in the running as Democrats fit into neither of these categories.

And, if we do elect a loon, I'd rather he be Andrew Yang than Trump. Yang actually cares about people who don't share his genes or his bed.

---

So would you consider Tulsi Gabbard for President? If not, why? Just asking for a friend. I look forward to your most sincere and transparent response.

---

Still can't figure why the democrats didn't want to keep a politically sane, non- borderline senile person in the running. She was solid.

---

Tulsi Gabbard wants Donald Trump to win the 2020 election more than herself or any of the other Dems, that's why Trump voters think she's more "sane" than the other Dem candidates. Her whole job is to be a spoiler and try to hurt whatever Dem she can, kind of like Bernie in 2016.

---

So you are claiming that Tulsi Gabbard is not electable by the Left because she loves Donald Trump? WOW! Just Wow!!!!!

cms186 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

cms186 said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

You can't have "educated" conversation about politics with people that believe today's media

Sorry but true

---

You'll have to let me know which of my points was media influenced. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC or Fox except to laugh at the outrage. You don't have to buy into the sensational "Trump peed on hookers" stories to realize there have been significant shortcomings in his presidency. Which I have outlined at the top of the thread.

Grow up. Have a mature conversation. It serves us all better in the tribal environment we find ourselves.

---

Mikes just walking through his talking points hes got written on his hand, hes got to get the medi ain there somewhere

---

^^^ And here's what the Englishman, that has no investment in our country, has to say

Blah

---

Im not entirely sure why my Nationality should discount me from having an opinion on your country, plenty of people on here express their (often incorrect) views on mine, or is it just because i disagree with you? i'm sure if i were singing Trumps praises, you couldn't give 2 hoots where I was from.

---

You're more American than Florida.

Tulsi changed her position on impeachment yesterday. She is in favor of it now.

PartyBear said:

---

Tulsi changed her position on impeachment yesterday. She is in favor of it now.

---

If true, then perhaps Tulsi is a good little foot soldier after all and is nothing special. If she is that easily strong-armed and manipulated by the Democratic Party, then she is not fit to be President.

tommie said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

cms186 said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

You can't have "educated" conversation about politics with people that believe today's media

Sorry but true

---

You'll have to let me know which of my points was media influenced. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC or Fox except to laugh at the outrage. You don't have to buy into the sensational "Trump peed on hookers" stories to realize there have been significant shortcomings in his presidency. Which I have outlined at the top of the thread.

Grow up. Have a mature conversation. It serves us all better in the tribal environment we find ourselves.

---

Mikes just walking through his talking points hes got written on his hand, hes got to get the medi ain there somewhere

---

^^^ And here's what the Englishman, that has no investment in our country, has to say

Blah

---

Im not entirely sure why my Nationality should discount me from having an opinion on your country, plenty of people on here express their (often incorrect) views on mine, or is it just because i disagree with you? i'm sure if i were singing Trumps praises, you couldn't give 2 hoots where I was from.

---

You're more American than Florida.

---

Please ..... explain that

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Tulsi changed her position on impeachment yesterday. She is in favor of it now.

---

If true, then perhaps Tulsi is a good little foot soldier after all and is nothing special. If she is that easily strong-armed and manipulated by the Democratic Party, then she is not fit to be President.

---

Uh .... well, no, I guess she isn't

I'd certainly hope not

HuMcK said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Which leaves us to pick between nut cases, narcissistic oddballs and full on loons .

---

Most of the people seriously in the running as Democrats fit into neither of these categories.

And, if we do elect a loon, I'd rather he be Andrew Yang than Trump. Yang actually cares about people who don't share his genes or his bed.

---

So would you consider Tulsi Gabbard for President? If not, why? Just asking for a friend. I look forward to your most sincere and transparent response.

---

Still can't figure why the democrats didn't want to keep a politically sane, non- borderline senile person in the running. She was solid.

---

Tulsi Gabbard wants Donald Trump to win the 2020 election more than herself or any of the other Dems, that's why Trump voters think she's more "sane" than the other Dem candidates. Her whole job is to be a spoiler and try to hurt whatever Dem she can, kind of like Bernie in 2016.

---

Why would she want Trump to win. I don't know anything about that, she seemed like a solid candidate and hadn't thrown her ring into the socialist camp yet. Anybody signing on for the NGD is politically pandering to socialism, Biden has lost his mental edge, that left Tulsi and Yang, and they are given zero chance.

The democratic machine seems intent on losing a very winnable election.

Forest Bueller said:

---

The democratic machine seems intent on losing a very winnable election.

---

Amazing to watch

BearTruth13 said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Gonna have to disagree with you there.

Warren/Bernie are full on loons. Their policies are the definition of pandering for votes and will negatively impact the country in severe ways.

Booker/Harris/Castro are narcissistic idiots that hate vast portions of the country.

Beto is the definition of an empty suit. His policies change day to day. He has no guiding principles.

Biden is legitimately too old and Dems won't pick him regardless. Yang and the rest will never get enough traction to make a meaningful push.

---

Since climate change is by far the most important issue to me--outweighing education, health care, immigration reform (despite frequent accessions from RWNJs on this board, I am NOT for open borders, but immigration has been the economic engine of this country since its founding and we need reforms that enable immigration without flooding us with unfunded liabilities) and other issues a distant second.

Republicans deny climate science and do it gleefully and sarcastically, displaying a level of callousness and ignorance that would be beneath contempt if it weren't currently our public policy position as a nation.

As long as the party and its political leaders continue to do that, I'll vote for Democrats in every election I vote in--national, state and local. A party that prioritizes limitless economic growth (a myth) over making sure the planet remains habitable is not pro-life in any sense that I understand it. And the Trump administration is endeavoring to push us backward when other first-world nations are working toward sustainability. That's confoundingly stupid and inexcusable.

---

More power to you. But I wholeheartedly disagree that Democrats relying on government intervention will ever solve climate issues. I used to feel the same way.

I work in the oil and gas industry. Once you see behind the curtain, you see the brilliance of the engineers and processes in this industry. With the proper profit motive, oil and gas will lead sustainable renewable energy efforts. Do you really think companies like Exxon and Shell are going to let themselves go out of business as green technology inevitably takes over? They will likely be leading the way.

The US government forcing radical and frankly stupid ideas on the citizenry will not work. India and China present a much bigger problem in terms of pollution than the US. We continue to cut emissions year after year. They do not.

Only the profit motive will force change in the market. It is basic human nature.

---

My father was an exploration geologist who spent his career in the mining industry. He never explored for/worked for a coal company, but over the course his career, he explored for bauxite, copper, zinc, potash, uranium (that was a bad job decision, since people were neither building bombs nor nuclear reactors and he joined that company when uranium mining was in a 20-year depression) and ended his career as the president of a small gold mining company with 3 gold-rush-era mines in the Sierra Nevadas that he ran for a Hong Kong taipan who owned companies all over the world. While he had that job, he and my mother would fly to Hong Kong once a year for a cruise of Mr. Wu's yacht with all of the other heads of Mr. Wu's companies.

So I've seen behind the curtain of the mining industry at least. And while my father hated some government regulation, he wasn't a nut who thought no regulation was needed. Exploitative coal-company mining towns had existed in his lifetime and were one of the reasons he wouldn't work for a coal company.

Here's my problem with private sector engineers: Their work supports their boss's aims. Engineers for Ford designed a Pinto with an exploding gas tank because the company's executives and legal team decided that the cost of a safer design would be higher than the cost of the lawsuits they'd deal with when people were burned to death. Ford executives did the same thing when, rather than redesigning the Explorer, they recommended underinflating the tires to resolve a problem, which resulted in the famous Bridgestone lawsuit. In this case, the profit motive cost lives and in a horrible way. And Ford didn't learn from the Pinto incident.

More on point re: climate change, engineers actually HELPED VW executives cheat the apparatus intended to regulate emissions and then sold cars as "green diesel" when they were really high polluters. I know lawyers who worked on all 3 of those class actions. We can't do a class action big enough to bail us out if the engineers we need to tell the truth about what we need to do now and in the future to mitigate climate change are working for the equivalent of the executive teams at Ford and VW, who were OK with collateral damage that involved people burning to death, losing their tires or unwittingly polluting the environment after buying a car specifically BECAUSE they thought it had low emissions and was thus more environmentally friendly.

Bottom line: Engineers are only as good as their bosses. And I don't trust their bosses. For good reason.

And the profit motive won't bring about meaningful action on climate change because the investment required is long-term, and we're a short-term-results society. Quarterly results will always be more urgent than the long-term viability of the planet to sustain the people who sustain your business. That'll keep happening until it's too late.

Our government can't deal with climate change alone nor should it; it's a global issue. But Republican denials--there are a couple of particularly stupid threads up now--mean we're not even participating in the discussion. If we don't participate, decisions will be made for us, by state governments (California is already trying that, and Republicans--supposedly the states' rights people--are trying to overrule that and federalize fuel-efficiency regulations), responsible corporations and other nations. What the GOP is doing is effectively cutting off our noses to spite our face. And the private sector neither has the will nor the power to do it alone.

My father was a professional engineer. A great deal of his work focused on safety, including environmental effects.

Perhaps Jinx lives in an alternate universe where engineers are evil, but my father and the many engineers he knew were, as a rule, focused on minimizing effects from energy production. This is for a number of reasons Jinx would not understand, such as the value of efficiency and the fact that engineers work right next to those chemicals they process. It's an old and damnable falsehood to blame engineers.

Florda_mike said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

You can't have "educated" conversation about politics with people that believe today's media

Sorry but true

---

You'll have to let me know which of my points was media influenced. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC or Fox except to laugh at the outrage. You don't have to buy into the sensational "Trump peed on hookers" stories to realize there have been significant shortcomings in his presidency. Which I have outlined at the top of the thread.

Grow up. Have a mature conversation. It serves us all better in the tribal environment we find ourselves.

---

Good luck ending tribal environment here or anywhere

You're trying to play in middle of road and will get run over by the Democrat Socialist machine!

Dude I've been here for years past your 53rd post here

I've tried talking sense to the leftist fools you're trying to communicate with for years and THEY are the media propaganda koolaid guzzling Socialist pimps I'm complaining about. You're just feeding em red meat and don't know it

You just haven't realized the only thing between us and $15/hour Socialism is Donald Trump. When you realize that then you'll feel same about these leftist paid trolls that post here and everywhere

Best to ya

---

Seriously dude, you continually embarrass yourself with tripe like this and need to shut up.

You contribute nothing of substance to any conversation on this board.

Canada2017 said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Reluctant Trump supporter here. Voted Cruz is the primary and 3rd party in 2016. Currently pulling the lever for Trump in 2020 due to the insanity of the Democrats.

But I honestly hate who I am forced to support. The guy has proven to be a moron and a terrible executive.

His staff has turned over multiple times. Most times he has publicly demonized the "best people" that he previously hired.

His trade war has resulted in negative market results since its start in Jan 2018 (23 months). Negative returns in a healthy economy.

He consistently gives the fake news media ammo to use against him. Why bring Biden up in that phone call? Even if it was innocent, you should be aware that it will be used against you.

The anti-Trump vitriol is having lasting consequences in Texas. Several Republican Congressmen lost in 2018. Several more (including my own) are retiring in 2020 due to seeing the writing on the wall. Democrats will likely win these districts.

Very little of a Republican agenda has been achieved in the past 3 years. Tax reform and judges. That is it. No serious immigration legislation. Obamacare still kicking and healthcare prices continue to rise. Republicans have lost all political capital under Trump.

The debt is more out of control than ever before. Trump has consistently raised the deficit. Should be $1 trillion + in 2020.

I just can't believe he is the best we can do. Trump is going to have lasting negative effects on the conservative platform. Democratic lunacy and socialism will finish off the country so they will never receive my vote. But it is sad that I'm stuck in the Trump camp. We can and should do better.

---

Problem is none of the best people for the job have crystal clean, absolutely pure lives that can withstand microscopic national scrutiny.....all the way back to junior high .

So they decide not to set themselves or their families up for the abuse . A rational choice.

Which leaves us to pick between nut cases, narcissistic oddballs and full on loons .

---

I don't think that is true at all. In terms of personal character, judgment, patriotism and leadership ability I have immense respect for"

Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, Water Mondale, George H.W. Bush, Ross Perot, Bob Dole, George W. Bush, Al Gore, Barack Obama, John McCain and Mitt Romney.

I don't think Dukakis was much of a leader and I think Donald Trump is unethical in the extreme and Bill and Hillary Clinton (particularly Bill) were too ambitious for their own good. Bill Clinton offset that failing somewhat by being an extraordinary politician.

Point being that great people seek the job Imperfect to be sure, but still great.

BearTruth13 said:

---

cinque said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Reluctant Trump supporter here. Voted Cruz is the primary and 3rd party in 2016. Currently pulling the lever for Trump in 2020 due to the insanity of the Democrats.

But I honestly hate who I am forced to support. The guy has proven to be a moron and a terrible executive.

His staff has turned over multiple times. Most times he has publicly demonized the "best people" that he previously hired.

His trade war has resulted in negative market results since its start in Jan 2018 (23 months). Negative returns in a healthy economy.

He consistently gives the fake news media ammo to use against him. Why bring Biden up in that phone call? Even if it was innocent, you should be aware that it will be used against you.

The anti-Trump vitriol is having lasting consequences in Texas. Several Republican Congressmen lost in 2018. Several more (including my own) are retiring in 2020 due to seeing the writing on the wall. Democrats will likely win these districts.

Very little of a Republican agenda has been achieved in the past 3 years. Tax reform and judges. That is it. No serious immigration legislation. Obamacare still kicking and healthcare prices continue to rise. Republicans have lost all political capital under Trump.

The debt is more out of control than ever before. Trump has consistently raised the deficit. Should be $1 trillion + in 2020.

I just can't believe he is the best we can do. Trump is going to have lasting negative effects on the conservative platform. Democratic lunacy and socialism will finish off the country so they will never receive my vote. But it is sad that I'm stuck in the Trump camp. We can and should do better.

---

He's not the best we could have done, but he is the agent of some inevitable changes that have been pressing for a long time. If not for Trump, Sanders or Warren would be exploiting the anxiety of the working class to far worse effect for us all.

---

Exceptionally well said .

---

There's nothing exceptional about ignoring how Trump has exploited class and race in a way not seen since the candidacy of George Wallace.

---

I'm not going to sit and defend Trump. But Democrats have been stroking racial flames since Obama. When I grew up in the late 1990s, race wasn't a thing. Even into high school, race wasn't discussed or thought of. We regressed horribly as a country during his presidency. We have all Democratic candidates constantly bashing the "white patriarchy" and putting slavery reparations in their official platforms. As if that is going to "unify" the races.

Trump is a symptom of a larger political problem here.

---

Democrats pushed birtherism. Even after Obama provided short form. They needed long form. Lorna form? It's forged.

Trump deserves every arrow that is coming his way.

fubar said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

You can't have "educated" conversation about politics with people that believe today's media

Sorry but true

---

You'll have to let me know which of my points was media influenced. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC or Fox except to laugh at the outrage. You don't have to buy into the sensational "Trump peed on hookers" stories to realize there have been significant shortcomings in his presidency. Which I have outlined at the top of the thread.

Grow up. Have a mature conversation. It serves us all better in the tribal environment we find ourselves.

---

Good luck ending tribal environment here or anywhere

You're trying to play in middle of road and will get run over by the Democrat Socialist machine!

Dude I've been here for years past your 53rd post here

I've tried talking sense to the leftist fools you're trying to communicate with for years and THEY are the media propaganda koolaid guzzling Socialist pimps I'm complaining about. You're just feeding em red meat and don't know it

You just haven't realized the only thing between us and $15/hour Socialism is Donald Trump. When you realize that then you'll feel same about these leftist paid trolls that post here and everywhere

Best to ya

---

Seriously dude, you continually embarrass yourself with tripe like this and need to shut up.

You contribute nothing of substance to any conversation on this board.

---

Stop so obviously making my point

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

Mike has the other kind of TDS (Trump dicksucking syndrome).

Crash Davis said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

Mike has the other kind of TDS (Trump dicksucking syndrome).

---

Wow, you reappeared again here with rudeness

Put down the bottle

Geez

Florda_mike said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

Mike has the other kind of TDS (Trump dicksucking syndrome).

---

Wow, you reappeared again here with rudeness

Put down the bottle

Geez

---

This really hurts coming from you. You're so well know for treating others with respect.

I do agree with Jinx and Quash about the critical need to address Global Warming .

But regardless of the public posturing of Dems or Republicans....politicians will not/can not fix the problem.

They would immediately be voted out of office when the economy tanked .


And they know it.



Only hope is for a 'fix' to be developed ' from the private sector.

Crash Davis said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

BaylorBJM said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Really just another TDS thread wearing camo

---

Are you 100% incapable of having an educated conversation about politics?

The OP presented a thoughtful, fact-laden post about the current presidency and its administration's political shortcomings.

---

Mike has the other kind of TDS (Trump dicksucking syndrome).

---

Wow, you reappeared again here with rudeness

Put down the bottle

Geez

---

This really hurts coming from you. You're so well know for treating others with respect.

---

Dude I didn't start this one, you came out of nowhere

Enjoy your evening

Canada2017 said:

---

I do agree with Jinx and Quash about the critical need to address Global Warming .

But regardless of the public posturing of Dems or Republicans....politicians will not/can not fix the problem.

They would immediately be voted out of office when the economy tanked .


And they know it.



Only hope is for a 'fix' to be developed ' from the private sector.

---

Canada normally your biz sense is on target but all solutions to global warming or cooling or whatever climate change they call it comes from government

Doesn't that give you a clue it's possibly a manufactured government program of sorts?

I'll stay calm if you'll just answer

Florda_mike said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

I do agree with Jinx and Quash about the critical need to address Global Warming .

But regardless of the public posturing of Dems or Republicans....politicians will not/can not fix the problem.

They would immediately be voted out of office when the economy tanked .


And they know it.



Only hope is for a 'fix' to be developed ' from the private sector.

---

Canada normally your biz sense is on target but all solutions to global warming or cooling or whatever climate change they call it comes from government

Doesn't that give you a clue it's possibly a manufactured government program of sorts?

I'll stay calm if you'll just answer

---

My friend I hope you will always remain calm even on the rare occasions when we disagree.

I see no politically viable solutions offered by Democrats or Republicans or in any democracy for that matter.

Voters simply won't tolerate the economic pain these bizarre proposals demand .

Only real solution is reducing emissions via new methods of transportation, in generating power and in producing consumer goods.

Capitalism is our best hope. Cleaning the air for profit .

Canada2017 said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

I do agree with Jinx and Quash about the critical need to address Global Warming .

But regardless of the public posturing of Dems or Republicans....politicians will not/can not fix the problem.

They would immediately be voted out of office when the economy tanked .


And they know it.



Only hope is for a 'fix' to be developed ' from the private sector.

---

Canada normally your biz sense is on target but all solutions to global warming or cooling or whatever climate change they call it comes from government

Doesn't that give you a clue it's possibly a manufactured government program of sorts?

I'll stay calm if you'll just answer

---

My friend I hope you will always remain calm even on the rare occasions when we disagree.

I see no politically viable solutions offered by Democrats or Republicans or in any democracy for that matter.

Voters simply won't tolerate the economic pain these bizarre proposals demand .

Only real solution is reducing emissions via new methods of transportation, in generating power and in producing consumer goods.

Capitalism is our best hope. Cleaning the air for profit .

---

All we can do is assume, so far, but my guess is there'll be an energy consumption tax(plural though). That means money for government solutions or redistribution of our cash to other willing countries so Congress can get their grubby hands on paybacks from those countries

I believe that's how it'll work as that's "politician 101" on how they get their bonuses

Global money for the globalists

Anything is possible.....but such a tax wouldn't make a dent in reducing emissions in countries like China or India .

Only real solutions ( if any are to be found at all) will most likely come from basic research , leading to industrial applications.

tommie said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

cinque said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Reluctant Trump supporter here. Voted Cruz is the primary and 3rd party in 2016. Currently pulling the lever for Trump in 2020 due to the insanity of the Democrats.

But I honestly hate who I am forced to support. The guy has proven to be a moron and a terrible executive.

His staff has turned over multiple times. Most times he has publicly demonized the "best people" that he previously hired.

His trade war has resulted in negative market results since its start in Jan 2018 (23 months). Negative returns in a healthy economy.

He consistently gives the fake news media ammo to use against him. Why bring Biden up in that phone call? Even if it was innocent, you should be aware that it will be used against you.

The anti-Trump vitriol is having lasting consequences in Texas. Several Republican Congressmen lost in 2018. Several more (including my own) are retiring in 2020 due to seeing the writing on the wall. Democrats will likely win these districts.

Very little of a Republican agenda has been achieved in the past 3 years. Tax reform and judges. That is it. No serious immigration legislation. Obamacare still kicking and healthcare prices continue to rise. Republicans have lost all political capital under Trump.

The debt is more out of control than ever before. Trump has consistently raised the deficit. Should be $1 trillion + in 2020.

I just can't believe he is the best we can do. Trump is going to have lasting negative effects on the conservative platform. Democratic lunacy and socialism will finish off the country so they will never receive my vote. But it is sad that I'm stuck in the Trump camp. We can and should do better.

---

He's not the best we could have done, but he is the agent of some inevitable changes that have been pressing for a long time. If not for Trump, Sanders or Warren would be exploiting the anxiety of the working class to far worse effect for us all.

---

Exceptionally well said .

---

There's nothing exceptional about ignoring how Trump has exploited class and race in a way not seen since the candidacy of George Wallace.

---

I'm not going to sit and defend Trump. But Democrats have been stroking racial flames since Obama. When I grew up in the late 1990s, race wasn't a thing. Even into high school, race wasn't discussed or thought of. We regressed horribly as a country during his presidency. We have all Democratic candidates constantly bashing the "white patriarchy" and putting slavery reparations in their official platforms. As if that is going to "unify" the races.

Trump is a symptom of a larger political problem here.

---

Democrats pushed birtherism. Even after Obama provided short form. They needed long form. Lorna form? It's forged.

Trump deserves every arrow that is coming his way.

---

Don't you mean Republicans?