Why Trump's Presidency Matters

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Sam Lowry
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Against all odds, he's fundamentally changing foreign policy (for the better).
Quote:

Why Trump Sort of Reminds Us of Charles De Gaulle
The two are very different, but when we deconstruct his foreign policy, we find a lot of good gut instinct.
By Leon Hadar October 9, 2019

Trump has embraced President Barack Obama's "Don't do stupid ****" foreign policy. Yet he seems to be doing a much better job of implementing that advice by more forcefully resisting the unrelenting pressure from the interventionist "Blob" (knock on wood).

So Trump, who has been ridiculed by members of the so-called intellectual elite as a lightweight, has refused to give a green light to a U.S. military intervention in Syria, rejecting the advice of those who would pursue another regime change there.

It is true that his diplomacy with North Korea and his friendship with its dictator has not brought about the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. But then no one seriously believed that was going to happen under any scenario. From that perspective, Trump has helped avert a catastrophic war in the area and encouraged reconciliation between the North and the South, which could one day lead to a united Korea that would no longer require U.S. troops to protect it.

It may not be the Grand Strategy that members of Washington's foreign policy establishment are looking for. But Trump's decisions have already set the stage for long-term strategic changes in East Asia, where an evolving Korean nationalism countered by a sense of Japanese nationalism could help create a new and stable regional balance of power that would make direct U.S. military intervention unnecessary.

In the Middle East, by firing John Bolton, expressing a willingness to meet with his Iranian counterpart, and refusing to drag the U.S. into military conflict with Iran in the aftermath of the attacks on the Saudi oil installations, Trump has sent a clear message to the Saudis that they need to pursue a detente with Tehran. The U.S. will not intervene in a war between the Sunnis and the Shiites in the Middle East. Period. And take it from there.

Then there is the message he is sending to a leading player in the Middle East, Turkey, and another regional actor down on the scale, the Kurds, with his recent announcement that he's ending U.S. involvement in Syria. It's not much different than his message to Israel and the Palestinians: hey guys, you need to resolve your differences among yourselves - we can only help. Regional powers like Turkey and Israel - and in the long run, Iran - will be able to maintain spheres of influence in order to protect their security and as part of any evolving balance of power, and minor players, like the Kurds and the Palestinians, will have to accept that.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-trump-sort-of-reminds-us-of-charles-de-gaulle/
BrooksBearLives
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Isis prisoners breaking loose.

Turkey hitting our special forces "on accident."

All on top of rank betrayal.

GREAT TAKE, Sam.
Sam Lowry
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BrooksBearLives said:

Isis prisoners breaking loose.

Turkey hitting our special forces "on accident."

All on top of rank betrayal.

GREAT TAKE, Sam.
As with other Trump-related panics, there's a stubborn refusal to see the big picture here. There are 70,000 ISIS prisoners in Syria. Five of them escaped. Things happen in war. Sometimes our troops are killed by friendly fire. In this case no one even died. As for betrayal, the Kurds aren't our allies and weren't fighting as a favor to us. They know this well enough. It's time we recognized it, too.

What's more important is that we're setting the stage for a long-term solution that allows the Middle East to take responsibility for the Middle East. This hasn't really happened since the British colonization. Unless we want to be there forever, it has to happen eventually.

Make no mistake, of course. The old political establishment does want us to be there forever. That's why we had all the lies about WMD, the fiascos in Afghanistan and Iraq, and all the warmongering that Democrats pretended to abhor as long as their outrage was politically expedient. Now we have a president who thinks differently. And now you're starting to see some true colors.
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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Hopefully the Turks will send those 70,000 mfers to meet Allah and collect their 72 virgins. That just might make most of this make sense.
Sorry Matt Rhule. Looks like you've got the train back on the tracks. I am sorry for doubting you.
Canada2017
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Hopefully the Turks will send those 70,000 mfers to meet Allah and collect their 72 virgins. That just might make most of this make sense.



If the past is any indication.....Turkey will find a low tech 'solution' involving their 70,000 prisoners .

And of course Sam is correct . Time to terminate US involvement in the never ending blood feuds of the Middle East.

cinque
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If Trump,is changing American foreign policy for the better (he's not), he is doing it unbeknownst to himself and quite by accident
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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cinque said:

If Trump,is changing American foreign policy for the better (he's not), he is doing it unbeknownst to himself and quite by accident
So what would you do? Declare war and send 4,000 American troops to Northern Syria? Serious question. (This should be good!)
Sorry Matt Rhule. Looks like you've got the train back on the tracks. I am sorry for doubting you.
midgett
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I'm not taking a stand on what is or isn't the right policy.

I will say the outrage over a few incidents- which inevitably are going to happen- is similar to the two week nonstop outrage over a mass shooting of 7 people (and make no mistake there should be outrage) while the same people shouting are crickets on the 50 gun deaths every weekend in certain cities.
Canada2017
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

cinque said:

If Trump,is changing American foreign policy for the better (he's not), he is doing it unbeknownst to himself and quite by accident
So what would you do? Declare war and send 4,000 American troops to Northern Syria? Serious question. (This should be good!)


Our little leftist would *****ed first and loudest if Trump had gone to war with Turkey protecting an ethnic group 90% of Americans never knew existed 2 weeks ago.
quash
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Gotten your made in China Trump 2020 banner yet?
Wilkes and Liberty 45
YoakDaddy
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

cinque said:

If Trump,is changing American foreign policy for the better (he's not), he is doing it unbeknownst to himself and quite by accident
So what would you do? Declare war and send 4,000 American troops to Northern Syria? Serious question. (This should be good!)

We already have 5k airmen and 50 nukes at a base in Incirlik.
Sam Lowry
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Another reason fairness and due process are important...

Filmmaker Michael Moore has been addressing the concerns of the working class for a few decades now. When asked about a run for political office, Moore responded "No! I want to live." He and other populists on the left and right have implied that no one would ever be allowed to challenge the status quo. American workers have long been ignored. They've grown cynical, alienated, even paranoid. They've stopped believing that the system works.

Trump came along and changed all of that. For many people, he restored trust in the system by proving that an outsider could win.

If Trump is wrongly removed from office, there won't be a civil war. There will be a crisis of confidence in government among a large number of Americans. Many will believe that a peaceful and orderly transfer of power after elections is no longer guaranteed.

Congressmen and senators of both parties should keep in mind that this isn't just about Trump. The legitimacy of the electoral process itself is at stake.
quash
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Sam Lowry said:

Another reason fairness and due process are important...

Filmmaker Michael Moore has been addressing the concerns of the working class for a few decades now. When asked about a run for political office, Moore responded "No! I want to live." He and other populists on the left and right have implied that no one would ever be allowed to challenge the status quo. American workers have long been ignored. They've grown cynical, alienated, even paranoid. They've stopped believing that the system works.

Trump came along and changed all of that. For many people, he restored trust in the system by proving that an outsider could win.

If Trump is wrongly removed from office, there won't be a civil war. There will be a crisis of confidence in government among a large number of Americans. Many will believe that a peaceful and orderly transfer of power after elections is no longer guaranteed.

Congressmen and senators of both parties should keep in mind that this isn't just about Trump. The legitimacy of the electoral process itself is at stake.

If Trump is removed from office it won't be wrongly.
Wilkes and Liberty 45
Sam Lowry
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quash said:

Sam Lowry said:

Another reason fairness and due process are important...

Filmmaker Michael Moore has been addressing the concerns of the working class for a few decades now. When asked about a run for political office, Moore responded "No! I want to live." He and other populists on the left and right have implied that no one would ever be allowed to challenge the status quo. American workers have long been ignored. They've grown cynical, alienated, even paranoid. They've stopped believing that the system works.

Trump came along and changed all of that. For many people, he restored trust in the system by proving that an outsider could win.

If Trump is wrongly removed from office, there won't be a civil war. There will be a crisis of confidence in government among a large number of Americans. Many will believe that a peaceful and orderly transfer of power after elections is no longer guaranteed.

Congressmen and senators of both parties should keep in mind that this isn't just about Trump. The legitimacy of the electoral process itself is at stake.

If Trump is removed from office it won't be wrongly.
How do you know that?
quash
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Sam Lowry said:

quash said:

Sam Lowry said:

Another reason fairness and due process are important...

Filmmaker Michael Moore has been addressing the concerns of the working class for a few decades now. When asked about a run for political office, Moore responded "No! I want to live." He and other populists on the left and right have implied that no one would ever be allowed to challenge the status quo. American workers have long been ignored. They've grown cynical, alienated, even paranoid. They've stopped believing that the system works.

Trump came along and changed all of that. For many people, he restored trust in the system by proving that an outsider could win.

If Trump is wrongly removed from office, there won't be a civil war. There will be a crisis of confidence in government among a large number of Americans. Many will believe that a peaceful and orderly transfer of power after elections is no longer guaranteed.

Congressmen and senators of both parties should keep in mind that this isn't just about Trump. The legitimacy of the electoral process itself is at stake.

If Trump is removed from office it won't be wrongly.
How do you know that?

Rule of law. Due process.
Wilkes and Liberty 45
BrooksBearLives
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Axios is reporting 950 ISIS fighters escape yesterday thanks for Turkish bombing of a Kurd city in Syria.

Where is YOUR line?

https://www.axios.com/isis-detainees-northern-syria-turkey-kurdish-ec58db13-93c0-4c9c-8158-6d4b8dbb6e9c.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic
HuMcK
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Canada2017 said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

cinque said:

If Trump,is changing American foreign policy for the better (he's not), he is doing it unbeknownst to himself and quite by accident
So what would you do? Declare war and send 4,000 American troops to Northern Syria? Serious question. (This should be good!)


Our little leftist would *****ed first and loudest if Trump had gone to war with Turkey protecting an ethnic group 90% of Americans never knew existed 2 weeks ago.

Stop lying about a war with Turkey over Kurds, because that wasn't going to happen. We didn't need to fight them to protect the Kurds, all we needed to do was stay put while we negotiated a peacekeeping arrangement and not stab the Kurds in the back. Once upon a time we had leadership that had balls enough to tell Turkey no, but this current POTUS has corrupt personal dealings with Turkey so apparently that's a thing of the past.
Canada2017
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HuMcK said:

Canada2017 said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

cinque said:

If Trump,is changing American foreign policy for the better (he's not), he is doing it unbeknownst to himself and quite by accident
So what would you do? Declare war and send 4,000 American troops to Northern Syria? Serious question. (This should be good!)


Our little leftist would *****ed first and loudest if Trump had gone to war with Turkey protecting an ethnic group 90% of Americans never knew existed 2 weeks ago.

Stop lying about a war with Turkey over Kurds, because that wasn't going to happen. We didn't need to fight them to protect the Kurds, all we needed to do was stay put while we negotiated a peacekeeping arrangement and not stab the Kurds in the back. Once upon a time we had leadership that had balls enough to tell Turkey no, but this current POTUS has corrupt personal dealings with Turkey so apparently that's a thing of the past.


You don't have a clue what the Turks were going to do.

Your hatred of Trump blinds you constantly.
HuMcK
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Canada2017 said:

HuMcK said:

Canada2017 said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

cinque said:

If Trump,is changing American foreign policy for the better (he's not), he is doing it unbeknownst to himself and quite by accident
So what would you do? Declare war and send 4,000 American troops to Northern Syria? Serious question. (This should be good!)


Our little leftist would *****ed first and loudest if Trump had gone to war with Turkey protecting an ethnic group 90% of Americans never knew existed 2 weeks ago.

Stop lying about a war with Turkey over Kurds, because that wasn't going to happen. We didn't need to fight them to protect the Kurds, all we needed to do was stay put while we negotiated a peacekeeping arrangement and not stab the Kurds in the back. Once upon a time we had leadership that had balls enough to tell Turkey no, but this current POTUS has corrupt personal dealings with Turkey so apparently that's a thing of the past.


You don't have a clue what the Turks were going to do.

Your hatred of Trump blinds you constantly.

Keeping your head up Trump's ass has apparently blinded a lot of y'all to reality. I can extrapolate based on Turkey's observed behavior up to this point, and they declined to initiate this offensive until we got out of the way. I see no reason to believe that wouldn't have held for at least the near future.
Sam Lowry
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quash said:

Sam Lowry said:

quash said:

Sam Lowry said:

Another reason fairness and due process are important...

Filmmaker Michael Moore has been addressing the concerns of the working class for a few decades now. When asked about a run for political office, Moore responded "No! I want to live." He and other populists on the left and right have implied that no one would ever be allowed to challenge the status quo. American workers have long been ignored. They've grown cynical, alienated, even paranoid. They've stopped believing that the system works.

Trump came along and changed all of that. For many people, he restored trust in the system by proving that an outsider could win.

If Trump is wrongly removed from office, there won't be a civil war. There will be a crisis of confidence in government among a large number of Americans. Many will believe that a peaceful and orderly transfer of power after elections is no longer guaranteed.

Congressmen and senators of both parties should keep in mind that this isn't just about Trump. The legitimacy of the electoral process itself is at stake.

If Trump is removed from office it won't be wrongly.
How do you know that?

Rule of law. Due process.
Didn't realize those were infallible. Everyone's been telling me impeachment is a political process.
TexasScientist
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Sam Lowry said:

Against all odds, he's fundamentally changing foreign policy (for the better).
Quote:

Why Trump Sort of Reminds Us of Charles De Gaulle
The two are very different, but when we deconstruct his foreign policy, we find a lot of good gut instinct.
By Leon Hadar October 9, 2019

Trump has embraced President Barack Obama's "Don't do stupid ****" foreign policy. Yet he seems to be doing a much better job of implementing that advice by more forcefully resisting the unrelenting pressure from the interventionist "Blob" (knock on wood).

So Trump, who has been ridiculed by members of the so-called intellectual elite as a lightweight, has refused to give a green light to a U.S. military intervention in Syria, rejecting the advice of those who would pursue another regime change there.

It is true that his diplomacy with North Korea and his friendship with its dictator has not brought about the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. But then no one seriously believed that was going to happen under any scenario. From that perspective, Trump has helped avert a catastrophic war in the area and encouraged reconciliation between the North and the South, which could one day lead to a united Korea that would no longer require U.S. troops to protect it.

It may not be the Grand Strategy that members of Washington's foreign policy establishment are looking for. But Trump's decisions have already set the stage for long-term strategic changes in East Asia, where an evolving Korean nationalism countered by a sense of Japanese nationalism could help create a new and stable regional balance of power that would make direct U.S. military intervention unnecessary.

In the Middle East, by firing John Bolton, expressing a willingness to meet with his Iranian counterpart, and refusing to drag the U.S. into military conflict with Iran in the aftermath of the attacks on the Saudi oil installations, Trump has sent a clear message to the Saudis that they need to pursue a detente with Tehran. The U.S. will not intervene in a war between the Sunnis and the Shiites in the Middle East. Period. And take it from there.

Then there is the message he is sending to a leading player in the Middle East, Turkey, and another regional actor down on the scale, the Kurds, with his recent announcement that he's ending U.S. involvement in Syria. It's not much different than his message to Israel and the Palestinians: hey guys, you need to resolve your differences among yourselves - we can only help. Regional powers like Turkey and Israel - and in the long run, Iran - will be able to maintain spheres of influence in order to protect their security and as part of any evolving balance of power, and minor players, like the Kurds and the Palestinians, will have to accept that.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-trump-sort-of-reminds-us-of-charles-de-gaulle/

I wouldn't consider Charles De Gaulle an example of someone to model our president after. The issue is not whether we will or should pull out of the Middle East conflicts, but how. You do it in a well thought out plan to minimize creating instability, a vacuum, and invitation to others who would seek to take advantage of a precipitous, ill conceived U. S. withdrawal. Seven hundred Isis fighter escaped per Fox News Sunday. On Thursday Trump said there were no more U. S troops in Syria, yet today we are pulling out 1,000 troops from Syria. At the same time he is sending more troops to Saudi Arabia. The guy clearly is a light weight and doesn't understand the consequences of his whimsical and destabilizing decisions. BTW - All of what you quote above is the status quo of what we had before 9/11. Where is the progress the self proclaimed genius is making?
Sam Lowry
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TexasScientist said:

Sam Lowry said:

Against all odds, he's fundamentally changing foreign policy (for the better).
Quote:

Why Trump Sort of Reminds Us of Charles De Gaulle
The two are very different, but when we deconstruct his foreign policy, we find a lot of good gut instinct.
By Leon Hadar October 9, 2019

Trump has embraced President Barack Obama's "Don't do stupid ****" foreign policy. Yet he seems to be doing a much better job of implementing that advice by more forcefully resisting the unrelenting pressure from the interventionist "Blob" (knock on wood).

So Trump, who has been ridiculed by members of the so-called intellectual elite as a lightweight, has refused to give a green light to a U.S. military intervention in Syria, rejecting the advice of those who would pursue another regime change there.

It is true that his diplomacy with North Korea and his friendship with its dictator has not brought about the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. But then no one seriously believed that was going to happen under any scenario. From that perspective, Trump has helped avert a catastrophic war in the area and encouraged reconciliation between the North and the South, which could one day lead to a united Korea that would no longer require U.S. troops to protect it.

It may not be the Grand Strategy that members of Washington's foreign policy establishment are looking for. But Trump's decisions have already set the stage for long-term strategic changes in East Asia, where an evolving Korean nationalism countered by a sense of Japanese nationalism could help create a new and stable regional balance of power that would make direct U.S. military intervention unnecessary.

In the Middle East, by firing John Bolton, expressing a willingness to meet with his Iranian counterpart, and refusing to drag the U.S. into military conflict with Iran in the aftermath of the attacks on the Saudi oil installations, Trump has sent a clear message to the Saudis that they need to pursue a detente with Tehran. The U.S. will not intervene in a war between the Sunnis and the Shiites in the Middle East. Period. And take it from there.

Then there is the message he is sending to a leading player in the Middle East, Turkey, and another regional actor down on the scale, the Kurds, with his recent announcement that he's ending U.S. involvement in Syria. It's not much different than his message to Israel and the Palestinians: hey guys, you need to resolve your differences among yourselves - we can only help. Regional powers like Turkey and Israel - and in the long run, Iran - will be able to maintain spheres of influence in order to protect their security and as part of any evolving balance of power, and minor players, like the Kurds and the Palestinians, will have to accept that.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-trump-sort-of-reminds-us-of-charles-de-gaulle/

I wouldn't consider Charles De Gaulle an example of someone to model our president after. The issue is not whether we will or should pull out of the Middle East conflicts, but how. You do it in a well thought out plan to minimize creating instability, a vacuum, and invitation to others who would seek to take advantage of a precipitous, ill conceived U. S. withdrawal. Seven hundred Isis fighter escaped per Fox News Sunday. On Thursday Trump said there were no more U. S troops in Syria, yet today we are pulling out 1,000 troops from Syria. At the same time he is sending more troops to Saudi Arabia. The guy clearly is a light weight and doesn't understand the consequences of his whimsical and destabilizing decisions. BTW - All of what you quote above is the status quo of what we had before 9/11. Where is the progress the self proclaimed genius is making?
It was not the status quo before 9/11. Far from it. We've had a policy of regime change for a long time.
TexasScientist
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Is Trump in his "great and unmatched wisdom" going to "obliterate Turkey's economy? What kind of sane person says things like this anyway?
TexasScientist
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Truth be known, it's more likelyTrump's actions in Syria are a convenient attempt to divert attention away from Ukraine and his impeachment woes.
Sam Lowry
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TexasScientist said:

Is Trump in his "great and unmatched wisdom" going to "obliterate Turkey's economy? What kind of sane person says things like this anyway?
Sane people say "sanctions." It's the same thing.
Sam Lowry
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TexasScientist said:

Truth be known, it's more likelyTrump's actions in Syria are a convenient attempt to divert attention away from Ukraine and his impeachment woes.
Dems have always seen to it that Trump had impeachment woes. He'll never take any action if he waits for that to change.
TexasScientist
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Sam Lowry said:

TexasScientist said:

Sam Lowry said:

Against all odds, he's fundamentally changing foreign policy (for the better).
Quote:

Why Trump Sort of Reminds Us of Charles De Gaulle
The two are very different, but when we deconstruct his foreign policy, we find a lot of good gut instinct.
By Leon Hadar October 9, 2019

Trump has embraced President Barack Obama's "Don't do stupid ****" foreign policy. Yet he seems to be doing a much better job of implementing that advice by more forcefully resisting the unrelenting pressure from the interventionist "Blob" (knock on wood).

So Trump, who has been ridiculed by members of the so-called intellectual elite as a lightweight, has refused to give a green light to a U.S. military intervention in Syria, rejecting the advice of those who would pursue another regime change there.

It is true that his diplomacy with North Korea and his friendship with its dictator has not brought about the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. But then no one seriously believed that was going to happen under any scenario. From that perspective, Trump has helped avert a catastrophic war in the area and encouraged reconciliation between the North and the South, which could one day lead to a united Korea that would no longer require U.S. troops to protect it.

It may not be the Grand Strategy that members of Washington's foreign policy establishment are looking for. But Trump's decisions have already set the stage for long-term strategic changes in East Asia, where an evolving Korean nationalism countered by a sense of Japanese nationalism could help create a new and stable regional balance of power that would make direct U.S. military intervention unnecessary.

In the Middle East, by firing John Bolton, expressing a willingness to meet with his Iranian counterpart, and refusing to drag the U.S. into military conflict with Iran in the aftermath of the attacks on the Saudi oil installations, Trump has sent a clear message to the Saudis that they need to pursue a detente with Tehran. The U.S. will not intervene in a war between the Sunnis and the Shiites in the Middle East. Period. And take it from there.

Then there is the message he is sending to a leading player in the Middle East, Turkey, and another regional actor down on the scale, the Kurds, with his recent announcement that he's ending U.S. involvement in Syria. It's not much different than his message to Israel and the Palestinians: hey guys, you need to resolve your differences among yourselves - we can only help. Regional powers like Turkey and Israel - and in the long run, Iran - will be able to maintain spheres of influence in order to protect their security and as part of any evolving balance of power, and minor players, like the Kurds and the Palestinians, will have to accept that.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-trump-sort-of-reminds-us-of-charles-de-gaulle/

I wouldn't consider Charles De Gaulle an example of someone to model our president after. The issue is not whether we will or should pull out of the Middle East conflicts, but how. You do it in a well thought out plan to minimize creating instability, a vacuum, and invitation to others who would seek to take advantage of a precipitous, ill conceived U. S. withdrawal. Seven hundred Isis fighter escaped per Fox News Sunday. On Thursday Trump said there were no more U. S troops in Syria, yet today we are pulling out 1,000 troops from Syria. At the same time he is sending more troops to Saudi Arabia. The guy clearly is a light weight and doesn't understand the consequences of his whimsical and destabilizing decisions. BTW - All of what you quote above is the status quo of what we had before 9/11. Where is the progress the self proclaimed genius is making?
It was not the status quo before 9/11. Far from it. We've had a policy of regime change for a long time.
Which regime were we actively seeking to change and engaged in changing before 9/11? Turkey? Syria? Iraq? Saudi Arabia? UAE? Kuwait? Israel? Jordan? Yemen? Oman? Qatar? Iran? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Lebanon?
Wasn't our policy, instead, one of maintaining the peace and attempting to get all of the players in the Middle East to come to terms in a peace treaty?
Sam Lowry
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TexasScientist said:

Sam Lowry said:

TexasScientist said:

Sam Lowry said:

Against all odds, he's fundamentally changing foreign policy (for the better).
Quote:

Why Trump Sort of Reminds Us of Charles De Gaulle
The two are very different, but when we deconstruct his foreign policy, we find a lot of good gut instinct.
By Leon Hadar October 9, 2019

Trump has embraced President Barack Obama's "Don't do stupid ****" foreign policy. Yet he seems to be doing a much better job of implementing that advice by more forcefully resisting the unrelenting pressure from the interventionist "Blob" (knock on wood).

So Trump, who has been ridiculed by members of the so-called intellectual elite as a lightweight, has refused to give a green light to a U.S. military intervention in Syria, rejecting the advice of those who would pursue another regime change there.

It is true that his diplomacy with North Korea and his friendship with its dictator has not brought about the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. But then no one seriously believed that was going to happen under any scenario. From that perspective, Trump has helped avert a catastrophic war in the area and encouraged reconciliation between the North and the South, which could one day lead to a united Korea that would no longer require U.S. troops to protect it.

It may not be the Grand Strategy that members of Washington's foreign policy establishment are looking for. But Trump's decisions have already set the stage for long-term strategic changes in East Asia, where an evolving Korean nationalism countered by a sense of Japanese nationalism could help create a new and stable regional balance of power that would make direct U.S. military intervention unnecessary.

In the Middle East, by firing John Bolton, expressing a willingness to meet with his Iranian counterpart, and refusing to drag the U.S. into military conflict with Iran in the aftermath of the attacks on the Saudi oil installations, Trump has sent a clear message to the Saudis that they need to pursue a detente with Tehran. The U.S. will not intervene in a war between the Sunnis and the Shiites in the Middle East. Period. And take it from there.

Then there is the message he is sending to a leading player in the Middle East, Turkey, and another regional actor down on the scale, the Kurds, with his recent announcement that he's ending U.S. involvement in Syria. It's not much different than his message to Israel and the Palestinians: hey guys, you need to resolve your differences among yourselves - we can only help. Regional powers like Turkey and Israel - and in the long run, Iran - will be able to maintain spheres of influence in order to protect their security and as part of any evolving balance of power, and minor players, like the Kurds and the Palestinians, will have to accept that.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-trump-sort-of-reminds-us-of-charles-de-gaulle/

I wouldn't consider Charles De Gaulle an example of someone to model our president after. The issue is not whether we will or should pull out of the Middle East conflicts, but how. You do it in a well thought out plan to minimize creating instability, a vacuum, and invitation to others who would seek to take advantage of a precipitous, ill conceived U. S. withdrawal. Seven hundred Isis fighter escaped per Fox News Sunday. On Thursday Trump said there were no more U. S troops in Syria, yet today we are pulling out 1,000 troops from Syria. At the same time he is sending more troops to Saudi Arabia. The guy clearly is a light weight and doesn't understand the consequences of his whimsical and destabilizing decisions. BTW - All of what you quote above is the status quo of what we had before 9/11. Where is the progress the self proclaimed genius is making?
It was not the status quo before 9/11. Far from it. We've had a policy of regime change for a long time.
Which regime were we actively seeking to change and engaged in changing before 9/11? Turkey? Syria? Iraq? Saudi Arabia? UAE? Kuwait? Israel? Jordan? Yemen? Oman? Qatar? Iran? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Lebanon?
Wasn't our policy, instead one of maintaining the peace and attempting to get all of the players in the Middle East to come to terms in a peace treaty?
No. We were seeking regime change in Iraq by obliterating its economy.
TexasScientist
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Sam Lowry said:

TexasScientist said:

Truth be known, it's more likelyTrump's actions in Syria are a convenient attempt to divert attention away from Ukraine and his impeachment woes.
Dems have always seen to it that Trump had impeachment woes. He'll never take any action if he waits for that to change.
His whole presidency has been characterized by making whimsical decisions based upon the political winds as reported in the press. His impeachment woes drive his decisions. Where have you been?
TexasScientist
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Sam Lowry said:

TexasScientist said:

Sam Lowry said:

TexasScientist said:

Sam Lowry said:

Against all odds, he's fundamentally changing foreign policy (for the better).
Quote:

Why Trump Sort of Reminds Us of Charles De Gaulle
The two are very different, but when we deconstruct his foreign policy, we find a lot of good gut instinct.
By Leon Hadar October 9, 2019

Trump has embraced President Barack Obama's "Don't do stupid ****" foreign policy. Yet he seems to be doing a much better job of implementing that advice by more forcefully resisting the unrelenting pressure from the interventionist "Blob" (knock on wood).

So Trump, who has been ridiculed by members of the so-called intellectual elite as a lightweight, has refused to give a green light to a U.S. military intervention in Syria, rejecting the advice of those who would pursue another regime change there.

It is true that his diplomacy with North Korea and his friendship with its dictator has not brought about the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. But then no one seriously believed that was going to happen under any scenario. From that perspective, Trump has helped avert a catastrophic war in the area and encouraged reconciliation between the North and the South, which could one day lead to a united Korea that would no longer require U.S. troops to protect it.

It may not be the Grand Strategy that members of Washington's foreign policy establishment are looking for. But Trump's decisions have already set the stage for long-term strategic changes in East Asia, where an evolving Korean nationalism countered by a sense of Japanese nationalism could help create a new and stable regional balance of power that would make direct U.S. military intervention unnecessary.

In the Middle East, by firing John Bolton, expressing a willingness to meet with his Iranian counterpart, and refusing to drag the U.S. into military conflict with Iran in the aftermath of the attacks on the Saudi oil installations, Trump has sent a clear message to the Saudis that they need to pursue a detente with Tehran. The U.S. will not intervene in a war between the Sunnis and the Shiites in the Middle East. Period. And take it from there.

Then there is the message he is sending to a leading player in the Middle East, Turkey, and another regional actor down on the scale, the Kurds, with his recent announcement that he's ending U.S. involvement in Syria. It's not much different than his message to Israel and the Palestinians: hey guys, you need to resolve your differences among yourselves - we can only help. Regional powers like Turkey and Israel - and in the long run, Iran - will be able to maintain spheres of influence in order to protect their security and as part of any evolving balance of power, and minor players, like the Kurds and the Palestinians, will have to accept that.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-trump-sort-of-reminds-us-of-charles-de-gaulle/

I wouldn't consider Charles De Gaulle an example of someone to model our president after. The issue is not whether we will or should pull out of the Middle East conflicts, but how. You do it in a well thought out plan to minimize creating instability, a vacuum, and invitation to others who would seek to take advantage of a precipitous, ill conceived U. S. withdrawal. Seven hundred Isis fighter escaped per Fox News Sunday. On Thursday Trump said there were no more U. S troops in Syria, yet today we are pulling out 1,000 troops from Syria. At the same time he is sending more troops to Saudi Arabia. The guy clearly is a light weight and doesn't understand the consequences of his whimsical and destabilizing decisions. BTW - All of what you quote above is the status quo of what we had before 9/11. Where is the progress the self proclaimed genius is making?
It was not the status quo before 9/11. Far from it. We've had a policy of regime change for a long time.
Which regime were we actively seeking to change and engaged in changing before 9/11? Turkey? Syria? Iraq? Saudi Arabia? UAE? Kuwait? Israel? Jordan? Yemen? Oman? Qatar? Iran? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Lebanon?
Wasn't our policy, instead one of maintaining the peace and attempting to get all of the players in the Middle East to come to terms in a peace treaty?
No. We were seeking regime change in Iraq by obliterating its economy.
We were seeking to get compliance out of Iraq. If we wanted regime change, we wouldn't have stopped outside Baghdad in the Gulf War and left Husain in power. That was one of the main criticisms of 41, not changing the regime when we could have.
quash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

quash said:

Sam Lowry said:

quash said:

Sam Lowry said:

Another reason fairness and due process are important...

Filmmaker Michael Moore has been addressing the concerns of the working class for a few decades now. When asked about a run for political office, Moore responded "No! I want to live." He and other populists on the left and right have implied that no one would ever be allowed to challenge the status quo. American workers have long been ignored. They've grown cynical, alienated, even paranoid. They've stopped believing that the system works.

Trump came along and changed all of that. For many people, he restored trust in the system by proving that an outsider could win.

If Trump is wrongly removed from office, there won't be a civil war. There will be a crisis of confidence in government among a large number of Americans. Many will believe that a peaceful and orderly transfer of power after elections is no longer guaranteed.

Congressmen and senators of both parties should keep in mind that this isn't just about Trump. The legitimacy of the electoral process itself is at stake.

If Trump is removed from office it won't be wrongly.
How do you know that?

Rule of law. Due process.
Didn't realize those were infallible. Everyone's been telling me impeachment is a political process.

Constitutional process, doesn't have to be infallible to avoid your mischaracterization.
Wilkes and Liberty 45
quash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

TexasScientist said:

Truth be known, it's more likelyTrump's actions in Syria are a convenient attempt to divert attention away from Ukraine and his impeachment woes.
Dems have always seen to it that Trump had impeachment woes. He'll never take any action if he waits for that to change.

Trump's impeachment woes are a function of his actions.
Wilkes and Liberty 45
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TexasScientist said:

Sam Lowry said:

TexasScientist said:

Truth be known, it's more likelyTrump's actions in Syria are a convenient attempt to divert attention away from Ukraine and his impeachment woes.
Dems have always seen to it that Trump had impeachment woes. He'll never take any action if he waits for that to change.
His whole presidency has been characterized by making whimsical decisions based upon the political winds as reported in the press. His impeachment woes drive his decisions. Where have you been?
Then why are his decisions so controversial?
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TexasScientist said:

Sam Lowry said:

TexasScientist said:

Sam Lowry said:

TexasScientist said:

Sam Lowry said:

Against all odds, he's fundamentally changing foreign policy (for the better).
Quote:

Why Trump Sort of Reminds Us of Charles De Gaulle
The two are very different, but when we deconstruct his foreign policy, we find a lot of good gut instinct.
By Leon Hadar October 9, 2019

Trump has embraced President Barack Obama's "Don't do stupid ****" foreign policy. Yet he seems to be doing a much better job of implementing that advice by more forcefully resisting the unrelenting pressure from the interventionist "Blob" (knock on wood).

So Trump, who has been ridiculed by members of the so-called intellectual elite as a lightweight, has refused to give a green light to a U.S. military intervention in Syria, rejecting the advice of those who would pursue another regime change there.

It is true that his diplomacy with North Korea and his friendship with its dictator has not brought about the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. But then no one seriously believed that was going to happen under any scenario. From that perspective, Trump has helped avert a catastrophic war in the area and encouraged reconciliation between the North and the South, which could one day lead to a united Korea that would no longer require U.S. troops to protect it.

It may not be the Grand Strategy that members of Washington's foreign policy establishment are looking for. But Trump's decisions have already set the stage for long-term strategic changes in East Asia, where an evolving Korean nationalism countered by a sense of Japanese nationalism could help create a new and stable regional balance of power that would make direct U.S. military intervention unnecessary.

In the Middle East, by firing John Bolton, expressing a willingness to meet with his Iranian counterpart, and refusing to drag the U.S. into military conflict with Iran in the aftermath of the attacks on the Saudi oil installations, Trump has sent a clear message to the Saudis that they need to pursue a detente with Tehran. The U.S. will not intervene in a war between the Sunnis and the Shiites in the Middle East. Period. And take it from there.

Then there is the message he is sending to a leading player in the Middle East, Turkey, and another regional actor down on the scale, the Kurds, with his recent announcement that he's ending U.S. involvement in Syria. It's not much different than his message to Israel and the Palestinians: hey guys, you need to resolve your differences among yourselves - we can only help. Regional powers like Turkey and Israel - and in the long run, Iran - will be able to maintain spheres of influence in order to protect their security and as part of any evolving balance of power, and minor players, like the Kurds and the Palestinians, will have to accept that.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-trump-sort-of-reminds-us-of-charles-de-gaulle/

I wouldn't consider Charles De Gaulle an example of someone to model our president after. The issue is not whether we will or should pull out of the Middle East conflicts, but how. You do it in a well thought out plan to minimize creating instability, a vacuum, and invitation to others who would seek to take advantage of a precipitous, ill conceived U. S. withdrawal. Seven hundred Isis fighter escaped per Fox News Sunday. On Thursday Trump said there were no more U. S troops in Syria, yet today we are pulling out 1,000 troops from Syria. At the same time he is sending more troops to Saudi Arabia. The guy clearly is a light weight and doesn't understand the consequences of his whimsical and destabilizing decisions. BTW - All of what you quote above is the status quo of what we had before 9/11. Where is the progress the self proclaimed genius is making?
It was not the status quo before 9/11. Far from it. We've had a policy of regime change for a long time.
Which regime were we actively seeking to change and engaged in changing before 9/11? Turkey? Syria? Iraq? Saudi Arabia? UAE? Kuwait? Israel? Jordan? Yemen? Oman? Qatar? Iran? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Lebanon?
Wasn't our policy, instead one of maintaining the peace and attempting to get all of the players in the Middle East to come to terms in a peace treaty?
No. We were seeking regime change in Iraq by obliterating its economy.
We were seeking to get compliance out of Iraq. If we wanted regime change, we wouldn't have stopped outside Baghdad in the Gulf War and left Husain in power. That was one of the main criticisms of 41, not changing the regime when we could have.
"The sanctions will be there until the end of time or as long as he [Saddam Hussein] lasts."
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quash said:

Sam Lowry said:

quash said:

Sam Lowry said:

quash said:

Sam Lowry said:

Another reason fairness and due process are important...

Filmmaker Michael Moore has been addressing the concerns of the working class for a few decades now. When asked about a run for political office, Moore responded "No! I want to live." He and other populists on the left and right have implied that no one would ever be allowed to challenge the status quo. American workers have long been ignored. They've grown cynical, alienated, even paranoid. They've stopped believing that the system works.

Trump came along and changed all of that. For many people, he restored trust in the system by proving that an outsider could win.

If Trump is wrongly removed from office, there won't be a civil war. There will be a crisis of confidence in government among a large number of Americans. Many will believe that a peaceful and orderly transfer of power after elections is no longer guaranteed.

Congressmen and senators of both parties should keep in mind that this isn't just about Trump. The legitimacy of the electoral process itself is at stake.

If Trump is removed from office it won't be wrongly.
How do you know that?

Rule of law. Due process.
Didn't realize those were infallible. Everyone's been telling me impeachment is a political process.

Constitutional process, doesn't have to be infallible to avoid your mischaracterization.
A process doesn't guarantee a right result, especially when precedent is ignored.
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