Jacques Strap said:

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Booray said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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Belgium

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920303423?via%3Dihub

Low-dose Hydroxychloroquine Therapy and Mortality in Hospitalized Patients with COVID-19: A Nationwide Observational Study of 8075 Participants
24 August 2020


Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) 2400 mg during 5 days was used in Belgium for COVID-19

Impact of HCQ on mortality among 8075 patients with COVID-19 was assessed

Lower mortality in HCQ-treated patients as compared to supportive care

Lower mortality is irrespective of symptoms duration

Conclusions

Compared to supportive care only, low-dose HCQ monotherapy was independently associated with lower mortality in hospitalized patients with COVID-19 diagnosed and treated early or later after symptom onset.

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Lots of questions:

First, my understanding is that if HCQ is to be effective, it has to be used early. If the Belgian doctors were operating under the same understanding, the reason for not prescribing may have been that the disease had progressed past the expected usefulness of the HCQ. That would create an apples and oranges scenario between the prescribed and non-prescribed populations.

Second, and likewise, does the HCQ prescription represent a generally more advanced and aggressive overall therapy with more resources, also creating apples and oranges?

Third, what changes in mortality would result from placebo use?

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Retrospective study, so it includes the usual limitation of that type of study. The PDF has a lot of additional information. I thought the results were interesting and aligned with the Henry Ford Hospital Study. I'm not a fan of the use of placebos in a COVID study with HCQ because you must withhold potentially life-saving medical treatment from some people. So, a study like that risks killing people to prove HCQ works.

If people don't want to take HCQ that's their call. Just wanted to post this recent study for those in doubt so to help them make up their own mind in consultation with their Doctor.

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I agree with all that, but the limitations of the study make it less than a "gold standard" type of test. Results should be viewed accordingly.

nein51 said:

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Real question; is anyone afraid of this virus at this point? Maybe I should have more respect for it's capabilities than I do.

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People in the at risk groups shoud be very afraid and probably are.
People are not flying on airlines like they used to do, so whether they admit it or not they are likely afraid of some activities.

I scored a 60 on the chart below. Some of these things I didn't do pre-covid like playing tennis.

Jacques Strap said:

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nein51 said:

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Real question; is anyone afraid of this virus at this point? Maybe I should have more respect for it's capabilities than I do.

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People in the at risk groups shoud be very afraid and probably are.
People are not flying on airlines like they used to do, so whether they admit it or not they are likely afraid of some activities.

I scored a 60 on the chart below. Some of these things I didn't do pre-covid like playing tennis.

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I scored 24

There's been no change in my activities since this started especially after getting on the cure, HCQ, over 3 months ago

Jacques Strap said:

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Sturgis says Hi.

Osodecentx said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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nein51 said:

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Real question; is anyone afraid of this virus at this point? Maybe I should have more respect for it's capabilities than I do.

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People in the at risk groups shoud be very afraid and probably are.
People are not flying on airlines like they used to do, so whether they admit it or not they are likely afraid of some activities.

I scored a 60 on the chart below. Some of these things I didn't do pre-covid like playing tennis.

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I scored 24

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Not sure what the time frame is, but in the last few months I'd score a 27.

15 days to flatten the curve to avoid overwhelming hospitals was and then this is now.

Jacques Strap said:

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15 days to flatten the curve to avoid overwhelming hospitals was and then this is now.

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What is the new metric, what is the policy goal? Because upfront it was "Save the ICUs!" Any idea what the new goal is?

Florda_mike said:

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There's been no change in my activities since this started especially after getting on the cure, HCQ, over 3 months ago

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Smart move .

quash said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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15 days to flatten the curve to avoid overwhelming hospitals was and then this is now.

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What is the new metric, what is the policy goal? Because upfront it was "Save the ICUs!" Any idea what the new goal is?

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Cower in fear?

quash said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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15 days to flatten the curve to avoid overwhelming hospitals was and then this is now.

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What is the new metric, what is the policy goal? Because upfront it was "Save the ICUs!" Any idea what the new goal is?

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It appears # of tests performed and positivity rate may be their favored metrics but hard to say for sure. In the beginning it was "let's not overwhelm hospitals". I'm sure they still do not want to overwhelm hospitals, but Newsom would like to be President in 4 years so I just assume his policies take that goal into consideration.

Jacques Strap said:

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quash said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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15 days to flatten the curve to avoid overwhelming hospitals was and then this is now.

---

What is the new metric, what is the policy goal? Because upfront it was "Save the ICUs!" Any idea what the new goal is?

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It appears # of tests performed and positivity rate may be their favored metrics but hard to say for sure. In the beginning it was "let's not overwhelm hospitals". I'm sure they still do not want to overwhelm hospitals, but Newsom would like to be President in 4 years so I just assume his policies take that goal into consideration.

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Newsom "wanting to be president" in 4 years is a lot like me wanting to build a company that's bigger than Amazon. It is humanly possible, but the likelihood is so minute that you have to begin to be realistic.

There's absolutely no chance on earth he would be elected president, not with what he's doing to California.

trey3216 said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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quash said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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15 days to flatten the curve to avoid overwhelming hospitals was and then this is now.

---

What is the new metric, what is the policy goal? Because upfront it was "Save the ICUs!" Any idea what the new goal is?

---

It appears # of tests performed and positivity rate may be their favored metrics but hard to say for sure. In the beginning it was "let's not overwhelm hospitals". I'm sure they still do not want to overwhelm hospitals, but Newsom would like to be President in 4 years so I just assume his policies take that goal into consideration.

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Newsom "wanting to be president" in 4 years is a lot like me wanting to build a company that's bigger than Amazon. It is humanly possible, but the likelihood is so minute that you have to begin to be realistic.

There's absolutely no chance on earth he would be elected president, not with what he's doing to California.

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I'm terrible at predicting who Americans will vote for so my opinion is worthless! All I'll say is never say never. I do think that he wants to be President (every pol dreams of that), so I have to think his decisions take that into consideration.

Jacques Strap said:

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nein51 said:

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Real question; is anyone afraid of this virus at this point? Maybe I should have more respect for it's capabilities than I do.

---

People in the at risk groups shoud be very afraid and probably are.
People are not flying on airlines like they used to do, so whether they admit it or not they are likely afraid of some activities.

I scored a 60 on the chart below. Some of these things I didn't do pre-covid like playing tennis.

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They left out rioting/protesting.... is it because it scored a zero?

quash said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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15 days to flatten the curve to avoid overwhelming hospitals was and then this is now.

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What is the new metric, what is the policy goal? Because upfront it was "Save the ICUs!" Any idea what the new goal is?

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I think they are leading with numbers of positive tests. This would be a leading indicator.

ICU occupancy would be a trailing indicator.

Fact is I don't know, just trying to reconcile the Governor's statement. I think he is correct to look at new cases and not the trailing indicators in order to decide a course for public policy, but he seems worried that the public will jump to wrong conclusions if given all of the information

Osodecentx said:

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quash said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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15 days to flatten the curve to avoid overwhelming hospitals was and then this is now.

---

What is the new metric, what is the policy goal? Because upfront it was "Save the ICUs!" Any idea what the new goal is?

---

I think they are leading with numbers of positive tests. This would be a leading indicator.

ICU occupancy would be a trailing indicator.

Fact is I don't know, just trying to reconcile the Governor's statement. I think he is correct to look at new cases and not the trailing indicators in order to decide a course for public policy, but he seems worried that the public will jump to wrong conclusions if given all of the information

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leading indicators only work for setting policy if trailing indicators were more constant... they are not, the European second surges are telling that tale. Spain, France, Italy, and Germany have very little deaths in the second surge.

The switch allows for continued lock down measures and federal help under declared disaster. I am sure there are plenty of other reasons as well but once a population center hits the 20% infection threshold and the infection rate per day is less than 5% then things should be opened up and the local economy should be running at 50% to 100% in that population center.

quash said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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quash said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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15 days to flatten the curve to avoid overwhelming hospitals was and then this is now.

---

What is the new metric, what is the policy goal? Because upfront it was "Save the ICUs!" Any idea what the new goal is?

---

It appears # of tests performed and positivity rate may be their favored metrics but hard to say for sure. In the beginning it was "let's not overwhelm hospitals". I'm sure they still do not want to overwhelm hospitals, but Newsom would like to be President in 4 years so I just assume his policies take that goal into consideration.

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Hard to achieve an objective when the objective is left undefined.

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Yep. He's trying to treat this like it's polio. We still haven't fully eradicated polio and it's been over 60 years. Pure insanity.

Sorry if this has already been posted- new study on masks and lockdown mandates

"This study provides strong statistical support for what so many have been observing for six months. The epidemic has a natural tendency to spread quickly at first and slow down, seemingly on its own, a point made not only here but as early as April 14 by Isaac Ben-Israel. "

https://www.aier.org/article/lockdowns-and-mask-mandates-do-not-lead-to-reduced-covid-transmission-rates-or-deaths-new-study-suggests/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

One statistic that does not make sense.

As of today, 8/29/2020, the US Has 5,919,670 recorded cases of covid and is ranked number 1 as the country with the highest number of cases.

However China has 89,855 recorded cases and is ranked 34th.

It does not make sense to me. unless China is not reporting all of their cases.

**My numbers come from the Johns Hopkins website.

Guy Noir said:

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One statistic that does not make sense.

As of today, 8/29/2020, the US Has 5,919,670 recorded cases of covid and is ranked number 1 as the country with the highest number of cases.

However China has 89,855 recorded cases and is ranked 34th.

It does not make sense to me. unless China is not reporting all of their cases.

**My numbers come from the Johns Hopkins website.

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China is not reporting... there were rogue journalists saying the 7 Crematoriums around Wuhan were running 24 hours a day and averaging between three and 5000 urns each shipment. The reported numbers you are seeing are most likely second wave/after the spike best i can tell from reports(like what europe is now experiencing) due to larger invection numbers with low death rates.

Gruvin said:

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Osodecentx said:

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quash said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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15 days to flatten the curve to avoid overwhelming hospitals was and then this is now.

---

What is the new metric, what is the policy goal? Because upfront it was "Save the ICUs!" Any idea what the new goal is?

---

I think they are leading with numbers of positive tests. This would be a leading indicator.

ICU occupancy would be a trailing indicator.

Fact is I don't know, just trying to reconcile the Governor's statement. I think he is correct to look at new cases and not the trailing indicators in order to decide a course for public policy, but he seems worried that the public will jump to wrong conclusions if given all of the information

---

leading indicators only work for setting policy if trailing indicators were more constant... they are not, the European second surges are telling that tale. Spain, France, Italy, and Germany have very little deaths in the second surge.

The switch allows for continued lock down measures and federal help under declared disaster. I am sure there are plenty of other reasons as well but once a population center hits the 20% infection threshold and the infection rate per day is less than 5% then things should be opened up and the local economy should be running at 50% to 100% in that population center.

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Deaths (the trailing indicator) are down, so the metric isn't as useful. Positive test numbers are useful. I'd publish all of the information and let the population decide.

I agree with your last sentence

quash said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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15 days to flatten the curve to avoid overwhelming hospitals was and then this is now.

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What is the new metric, what is the policy goal? Because upfront it was "Save the ICUs!" Any idea what the new goal is?

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Great question. Don't expect an answer from any elected official.

Comorbidities

Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups. For data on comorbidities,

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

Jacques Strap said:

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Comorbidities

Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups. For data on comorbidities,

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

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I read attachment

Amazing the irresponsible nature COVID deaths have been shown as "COVID Deaths" but weren't direct true COVID deaths

This is criminal and they know it and they're trying their best to cover their deceit in the attachment! Of course this deceit will be buried by our equally corrupt media and no consequences will ever be had for those that have destroyed lives and livelihoods and killed people unable to get treatments for other diseases during this time

Terrible where we are as a country

Biden 2020, that's what it's all about

Criminals run against our country

Florda_mike said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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Comorbidities

Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups. For data on comorbidities,

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

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I read attachment

Amazing the irresponsible nature COVID deaths have been shown as "COVID Deaths" but weren't direct true COVID deaths

This is criminal and they know it and they're trying their best to cover their deceit in the attachment! Of course this deceit will be buried by our equally corrupt media and no consequences will ever be had for those that have destroyed lives and livelihoods and killed people unable to get treatments for other diseases during this time

Terrible where we are as a country

Biden 2020, that's what it's all about

Criminals run against our country

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Nothing irresponsible about it. We've known from the beginning who was most at risk: those with co-morbidities. A death from coronavirus is no less a Covid19 death just because of comorbidities.

If you shoot an elderly person with diabetes and COPD good luck with your defense of "but they already had other illnesses!"

quash said:

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Florda_mike said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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Comorbidities

Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups. For data on comorbidities,

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

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I read attachment

Amazing the irresponsible nature COVID deaths have been shown as "COVID Deaths" but weren't direct true COVID deaths

This is criminal and they know it and they're trying their best to cover their deceit in the attachment! Of course this deceit will be buried by our equally corrupt media and no consequences will ever be had for those that have destroyed lives and livelihoods and killed people unable to get treatments for other diseases during this time

Terrible where we are as a country

Biden 2020, that's what it's all about

Criminals run against our country

---

Nothing irresponsible about it. We've known from the beginning who was most at risk: those with co-morbidities. A death from coronavirus is no less a Covid19 death just because of comorbidities.

If you shoot an elderly person with diabetes and COPD good luck with your defense of "but they already had other illnesses!"

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you actually just made my case against the Covid mislabelings... alot of the labeled cases are not Covid deaths, they just happen to have Covid upon or near the time of death.

Local High School (guessing 2k to 3k students).
5 students tested positive.
Karen made the entire school go 100% remote for two weeks.
2 football players tested positive - Karen shut down football. no practice or games for two weeks


https://www.wmcactionnews5.com/2020/08/28/collierville-high-begin-remote-learning-two-weeks-due-covid-cluster/

Gruvin said:

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quash said:

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Florda_mike said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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Comorbidities

Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups. For data on comorbidities,

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

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I read attachment

Amazing the irresponsible nature COVID deaths have been shown as "COVID Deaths" but weren't direct true COVID deaths

This is criminal and they know it and they're trying their best to cover their deceit in the attachment! Of course this deceit will be buried by our equally corrupt media and no consequences will ever be had for those that have destroyed lives and livelihoods and killed people unable to get treatments for other diseases during this time

Terrible where we are as a country

Biden 2020, that's what it's all about

Criminals run against our country

---

Nothing irresponsible about it. We've known from the beginning who was most at risk: those with co-morbidities. A death from coronavirus is no less a Covid19 death just because of comorbidities.

If you shoot an elderly person with diabetes and COPD good luck with your defense of "but they already had other illnesses!"

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you actually just made my case against the Covid mislabelings... alot of the labeled cases are not Covid deaths, they just happen to have Covid upon or near the time of death.

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The state doesn't make a murder/manslaughter distinction based on the number of comorbidities. "Victim had high cholesterol and diabetes, that's manslaughter."