Baylor Chapel and False Teaching

9,856 Views | 280 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by TexasScientist
Osodecentx
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BaylorFTW said:

Osodecentx said:

BaylorFTW said:

Osodecentx said:

Thanks for posting this. It sounds reasonable. Creative people just communicate in a different way (I'm not creative)

Does 'native Christian' mean native American (Indian)?

The bigger topic in my opinion is allowing speakers in Chapel that expose students to different ideas. It should be encouraged. So, I'd allow a pagan to speak, an atheist, even a Democrat. Who knows what light might be shed


Are you a practicing Christian? And if the school took your advice and allowed various other faiths and atheists to speak and this resulted in Christians losing their faith and salvation, how would you reconcile that as a good thing? I can see how that would advance the cause of other faiths, atheism and pluralism but how does that advance the cause of Jesus Christ? Where are examples in the bible where giving a platform to other faiths was viewed as a good idea or moral by God? It is one thing to learn about other religions as a means to defend Christianity against attack or to do so in an effort to help convert people to Christianity but to give them a platform is to suggest that Jesus isn't the way and that all faiths or non faith are as equally just as the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I guess my Christianity is robust enough to withstand another POV.

I recommend Evidence That Demands a Verdict by McDowell

Evidence That Demands a Verdict is an easy-to-read, front-line defense for Christians facing the tough questions of critics and skeptics. Using secular evidences and other historical sources, Josh McDowell's faith-building book is a "must read" for every Christian.
But tell me, would the school have allowed a Klansman, Christian Identity/British Israelism or Black Hebrew Israelite to be able to talk on campus or in Chapel? Because they would all claim they are Christians and wanting to disrupt the status quo as this speaker did. How is it decided which points of view get expressed and which ones are persona non grata?
I'd guess probably not. Obviously reasonable people of good conscience and intelligence (such as you & I) may disagree on who should be allowed to speak.
My line would be speakers who advocate hate, e.g. Klan, Black Hebrew Israelites.

The lady who spoke at Chapel (wasn't it Forum before?) didn't seem hateful. I'd let her speak.
Aliceinbubbleland
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Bearitto said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I expect Baylor to have speakers with differing political views, even controversial political views. I've no problem with that.

When it comes to Christianity however, there is a "framework" that should always be there. Can there be differing views on some things? Sure. But, in the words of Alistair Begg, " the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." When we start adding to or taking away from that while teaching, we are misleading others and are creating false gods.

BU needs to be very careful that they choose speakers that have the ability to stay true to the faith while presenting a variety of political views.


The problem is, it's virtually impossible to be a Christian and a leftist. You can't worship God and government simultaneously.
What a stupid statement. But then I'd expect nothing better from a religious bigot.
BaylorFTW
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Osodecentx said:

I'd guess probably not. Obviously reasonable people of good conscience and intelligence (such as you & I) may disagree on who should be allowed to speak.
My line would be speakers who advocate hate, e.g. Klan, Black Hebrew Israelites.

The lady who spoke at Chapel (wasn't it Forum before?) didn't seem hateful. I'd let her speak.
I would say she is hateful towards white males, conservatives, past Americans, nationalists, etc. The only real differences that I see are that she is a woman whereas the other groups usually have men as their spokesmen. In addition and maybe more relevant is her beliefs are in keeping with the accepted liberal/leftists beliefs of the times and the other groups are not. Those other groups would all claim they are oppressed just like her and have the truth.

BaylorFTW
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

Bearitto said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I expect Baylor to have speakers with differing political views, even controversial political views. I've no problem with that.

When it comes to Christianity however, there is a "framework" that should always be there. Can there be differing views on some things? Sure. But, in the words of Alistair Begg, " the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." When we start adding to or taking away from that while teaching, we are misleading others and are creating false gods.

BU needs to be very careful that they choose speakers that have the ability to stay true to the faith while presenting a variety of political views.


The problem is, it's virtually impossible to be a Christian and a leftist. You can't worship God and government simultaneously.
What a stupid statement. But then I'd expect nothing better from a religious bigot.
Are you a practicing Christian?
Osodecentx
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BaylorFTW said:

Osodecentx said:

I'd guess probably not. Obviously reasonable people of good conscience and intelligence (such as you & I) may disagree on who should be allowed to speak.
My line would be speakers who advocate hate, e.g. Klan, Black Hebrew Israelites.

The lady who spoke at Chapel (wasn't it Forum before?) didn't seem hateful. I'd let her speak.
I would say she is hateful towards white males, conservatives, past Americans, nationalists, etc. The only real differences that I see are that she is a woman whereas the other groups usually have men as their spokesmen. In addition and maybe more relevant is her beliefs are in keeping with the accepted liberal/leftists beliefs of the times and the other groups are not. Those other groups would all claim they are oppressed just like her and have the truth.


And reasonable people may disagree
Aliceinbubbleland
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BaylorFTW said:


Are you a practicing Christian?
I'm not getting down into the mud with you on your determining what is a Christian but what in the world is so frightening to you about the following prayer?

Oh God of mystery,
If we have tried to place you in a box,
break it.
No mold can hold you.
We search the surface of the earth
to understand you,
because we are your imprint.
But we cannot understand.
Only the kind glimpses
you give us can suffice.
And indeed they are everything we need.
Teach us to look out to your bigness.
to fall freely into your Holy Abyss,
into your depths,
where we see more glimpses of Kingdom things.
It's safe and good there,
and it is where we long to be.
Bring us to you,
the One who is
not here or there,
not this or that.
We do not even understand
how we long for you,
how we burn in our bones
for your presence.
It is simply our need.
Pull us closer still.
Amen.

BaylorFTW
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

BaylorFTW said:


Are you a practicing Christian?
I'm not getting down into the mud with you on your determining what is a Christian but what in the world is so frightening to you about the following prayer?
It is a simple question. A practicing Christian would not be ashamed of saying they are one. You just called someone a religious bigot and so was curious whether you were in fact a practicing Christian or say an atheist. As a practicing Christian myself, I do think Christianity is superior to other faiths as I believe it is the only way to receive salvation and go to heaven. Does that make me a religious bigot in your mind too? .

Regarding her talk, I would suggest you watch the video of her full talk and read her twitter feed. I have already expressed my views on her talk in my prior posts. I personally don't believe chapel is the time and place for such talks.

I would be curious to get your opinions on the questions I raised to Osodecentx in my last few posts in this thread.
Mudbear
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Except she didn't say "Oh (GOD) of Mystery" She said "Oh Mystery"

She had some interesting thoughts that's for sure. If you go through her FB page she is VERY POLITICAL and questioning her Christian faith (almost like she is transitioning to neo-paganism) but is scared to let go of her Christian faith? Who knows, it's her personal journey, but after looking through her FB I'm more convinced that her use of "mystery" is nature/Mother Earth centered and not divine.
LIB,MR BEARS
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

Bearitto said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I expect Baylor to have speakers with differing political views, even controversial political views. I've no problem with that.

When it comes to Christianity however, there is a "framework" that should always be there. Can there be differing views on some things? Sure. But, in the words of Alistair Begg, " the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." When we start adding to or taking away from that while teaching, we are misleading others and are creating false gods.

BU needs to be very careful that they choose speakers that have the ability to stay true to the faith while presenting a variety of political views.


The problem is, it's virtually impossible to be a Christian and a leftist. You can't worship God and government simultaneously.
What a stupid statement. But then I'd expect nothing better from a religious bigot.
I think Christians can have differing political views. However, can you backup your statement?
BaylorFTW
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Mudbear said:

Except she didn't say "Oh (GOD) of Mystery" She said "Oh Mystery"

She had some interesting thoughts that's for sure. If you go through her FB page she is VERY POLITICAL and questioning her Christian faith (almost like she is transitioning to neo-paganism) but is scared to let go of her Christian faith? Who knows, it's her personal journey, but after looking through her FB I'm more convinced that her use of "mystery" is nature/Mother Earth centered and not divine.
It really comes down to whether one wants to be charitable to her words or not. She appears to want to hold onto some past perceived Indian religious ideas that include venerating nature. And as I am sure you well know. worshiping nature is a pagan belief. Christians believe worshiping nature is putting Creation before the Creator or putting it on a similar level and thus making an idol/god of something that one should not.

The rise of neo-paganism is a growing problem though. And there is this exact issue where you see a blurring of the two (Christianity/Paganism). Here, is an example I saw of a street preacher talking to some neo-pagans in England who go to some type of hybrid Pagan/Christian church.

In fact, I am seeing a rise of heretical teachings. The Black Hebrew Israelite movement or Hebrew Roots movement is another example. I am also seeing some Christians advocate a Hell doesn't exist stance who would present themselves as standard protestant Christians.

We are starved for Christian leadership to lead a new revival and a return to biblical teaching in the West. Sadly, many people have forgotten or never learned the value of Christianity and are being fed confusion or derision towards Christianity.
LIB,MR BEARS
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"I am the way, the truth and the life. NO ONE come to the Father except through Me."

Is this a bigoted statement? If not, what defines a bigoted statement?

How do you define leftists?
D. C. Bear
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BaylorFTW said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Bearitto said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I expect Baylor to have speakers with differing political views, even controversial political views. I've no problem with that.

When it comes to Christianity however, there is a "framework" that should always be there. Can there be differing views on some things? Sure. But, in the words of Alistair Begg, " the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." When we start adding to or taking away from that while teaching, we are misleading others and are creating false gods.

BU needs to be very careful that they choose speakers that have the ability to stay true to the faith while presenting a variety of political views.


The problem is, it's virtually impossible to be a Christian and a leftist. You can't worship God and government simultaneously.
What a stupid statement. But then I'd expect nothing better from a religious bigot.
Are you a practicing Christian?


Why do you ask?
BaylorFTW
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D. C. Bear said:

BaylorFTW said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Bearitto said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I expect Baylor to have speakers with differing political views, even controversial political views. I've no problem with that.

When it comes to Christianity however, there is a "framework" that should always be there. Can there be differing views on some things? Sure. But, in the words of Alistair Begg, " the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." When we start adding to or taking away from that while teaching, we are misleading others and are creating false gods.

BU needs to be very careful that they choose speakers that have the ability to stay true to the faith while presenting a variety of political views.
The problem is, it's virtually impossible to be a Christian and a leftist. You can't worship God and government simultaneously.
What a stupid statement. But then I'd expect nothing better from a religious bigot.
Are you a practicing Christian?
Why do you ask?
I mentioned it in a later post as follows

It is a simple question. A practicing Christian would not be ashamed of saying they are one. You just called someone a religious bigot and so was curious whether you were in fact a practicing Christian or say an atheist. As a practicing Christian myself, I do think Christianity is superior to other faiths as I believe it is the only way to receive salvation and go to heaven. Does that make me a religious bigot in your mind too? .
D. C. Bear
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BaylorFTW said:

D. C. Bear said:

BaylorFTW said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Bearitto said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I expect Baylor to have speakers with differing political views, even controversial political views. I've no problem with that.

When it comes to Christianity however, there is a "framework" that should always be there. Can there be differing views on some things? Sure. But, in the words of Alistair Begg, " the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." When we start adding to or taking away from that while teaching, we are misleading others and are creating false gods.

BU needs to be very careful that they choose speakers that have the ability to stay true to the faith while presenting a variety of political views.
The problem is, it's virtually impossible to be a Christian and a leftist. You can't worship God and government simultaneously.
What a stupid statement. But then I'd expect nothing better from a religious bigot.
Are you a practicing Christian?
Why do you ask?
I mentioned it a later post as follows

It is a simple question. A practicing Christian would not be ashamed of saying they are one. You just called someone a religious bigot and so was curious whether you were in fact a practicing Christian or say an atheist. As a practicing Christian myself, I do think Christianity is superior to other faiths as I believe it is the only way to receive salvation and go to heaven. Does that make me a religious bigot in your mind too? .


It is not a simple question. Few questions worth asking are.
Aliceinbubbleland
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BaylorFTW said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

BaylorFTW said:

As a practicing Christian myself, I do think Christianity is superior to other faiths as I believe it is the only way to receive salvation and go to heaven. Does that make me a religious bigot in your mind too? .


I've never renounced my birth Christian childhood but I have lots of doubt regarding teachings I learned from my early training. If you were born to Hindu parents you'd possibly believe that is superior to other faiths. If you were born Jewish you'd possibly believe that is superior to other faiths. Thus to me the portion of your quote in bold is what causes conflict. Backers of militants believe their belief is superior to other faiths. I'd wager both are incorrect.

We all arrive here on earth and probably, depending on your parents, are raised with similar beliefs like them.

Someone posted prior to this challenging how I could say someone on the left is non-Christian. I'd give them Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton as two very devout Christians who are not right wingers.



LIB,MR BEARS
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

BaylorFTW said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

BaylorFTW said:

As a practicing Christian myself, I do think Christianity is superior to other faiths as I believe it is the only way to receive salvation and go to heaven. Does that make me a religious bigot in your mind too? .


I've never renounced my birth Christian childhood but I have lots of doubt regarding teachings I learned from my early training. If you were born to Hindu parents you'd possibly believe that is superior to other faiths. If you were born Jewish you'd possibly believe that is superior to other faiths. Thus to me the portion of your quote in bold is what causes conflict. Backers of militants believe their belief is superior to other faiths. I'd wager both are incorrect.

We all arrive here on earth and probably, depending on your parents, are raised with similar beliefs like them.

Someone posted prior to this challenging how I could say someone on the left is non-Christian. I'd give them Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton as two very devout Christians who are not right wingers.




devout Christian and Bill Clinton in the same sentence, awesome.

While it is not up to me to know a man's heart, we are told we will know Christians by their fruit.

I certainly hope I have produced a bit mor fruit than he. At the same time, one of the thieves on the cross had no fruit to show prior to his being hung on a cross.
LIB,MR BEARS
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

BaylorFTW said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

BaylorFTW said:

As a practicing Christian myself, I do think Christianity is superior to other faiths as I believe it is the only way to receive salvation and go to heaven. Does that make me a religious bigot in your mind too? .


I've never renounced my birth Christian childhood but I have lots of doubt regarding teachings I learned from my early training. If you were born to Hindu parents you'd possibly believe that is superior to other faiths. If you were born Jewish you'd possibly believe that is superior to other faiths. Thus to me the portion of your quote in bold is what causes conflict. Backers of militants believe their belief is superior to other faiths. I'd wager both are incorrect.

We all arrive here on earth and probably, depending on your parents, are raised with similar beliefs like them.

Someone posted prior to this challenging how I could say someone on the left is non-Christian. I'd give them Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton as two very devout Christians who are not right wingers.




Alice, we are not born into Christianity. Do you know what makes a person a Christian?

I'd venture to guess that better than 50% of people who call themselves Christian cannot say what a Christian is. There is a ton of misleading teaching that goes on and lots of worshiping without the knowledge of who/what is being worshipped.

If you'd like, we can move this to a private conversation.
BaylorFTW
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

I've never renounced my birth Christian childhood but I have lots of doubt regarding teachings I learned from my early training. If you were born to Hindu parents you'd possibly believe that is superior to other faiths. If you were born Jewish you'd possibly believe that is superior to other faiths. Thus to me the portion of your quote in bold is what causes conflict. Backers of militants believe their belief is superior to other faiths. I'd wager both are incorrect.

We all arrive here on earth and probably, depending on your parents, are raised with similar beliefs like them.

Someone posted prior to this challenging how I could say someone on the left is non-Christian. I'd give them Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton as two very devout Christians who are not right wingers.

Thank you for the response. It is not uncommon to have doubts from time to time. That seems fairly normal as far as I can tell. However, you are mainly giving the genetic fallacy argument here. I think such a position would have had greater weight years in the past with limited technology and access to the outside world. But in the modern era, with the internet, youtube, podcasts, etc., people can find access to all kinds of points of view and faiths. You yourself would be an exception to your genetic fallacy argument and we all know others who were raised one faith and changed to another or agnosticism or atheism. I can think of examples like J. Warner Wallace and Lee Strobel who were strong atheists who began to research Christianity only to become convicted by it and became Christians. I am also aware of folks like Michael Shermer who began as an evangelical only to become an ardent agnostic/atheist.

So my point is I think it is a mistake and even risking being insulting to just assume that someone believes what they do based on what home they were born into. It robs people of their agency and ignores that they have researched these things for themselves. The history of Christianity shows that it does not adhere to the genetic fallacy argument as it began in the Middle East only to move to North Africa and on into Turkey and later into Europe and Russia and then later to the Americas. Its sphere of influence keeps moving too as where it has in recent times been concentrated in the West is shifting to the south in South America, Africa, and China. If the genetic fallacy argument were true, all this could not take place as people would just stick with their prior religions.

One question I think you should contemplate is whether one faith can be true and whether it can be determined which one is true. The problem with the idea of pluralism that is prevalent in secular/multicultural Western societies is that it ignores that all religions contradict each other and so can't all be correct.
curtpenn
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

BaylorFTW said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

BaylorFTW said:

As a practicing Christian myself, I do think Christianity is superior to other faiths as I believe it is the only way to receive salvation and go to heaven. Does that make me a religious bigot in your mind too? .


I've never renounced my birth Christian childhood but I have lots of doubt regarding teachings I learned from my early training. If you were born to Hindu parents you'd possibly believe that is superior to other faiths. If you were born Jewish you'd possibly believe that is superior to other faiths. Thus to me the portion of your quote in bold is what causes conflict. Backers of militants believe their belief is superior to other faiths. I'd wager both are incorrect.

We all arrive here on earth and probably, depending on your parents, are raised with similar beliefs like them.

Someone posted prior to this challenging how I could say someone on the left is non-Christian. I'd give them Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton as two very devout Christians who are not right wingers.




Clinton and Carter would probably qualify as right wingers now...
quash
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Bearitto said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I expect Baylor to have speakers with differing political views, even controversial political views. I've no problem with that.

When it comes to Christianity however, there is a "framework" that should always be there. Can there be differing views on some things? Sure. But, in the words of Alistair Begg, " the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." When we start adding to or taking away from that while teaching, we are misleading others and are creating false gods.

BU needs to be very careful that they choose speakers that have the ability to stay true to the faith while presenting a variety of political views.


The problem is, it's virtually impossible to be a Christian and a leftist. You can't worship God and government simultaneously.
What a stupid statement. But then I'd expect nothing better from a religious bigot.
I think Christians can have differing political views. However, can you backup your statement?

Then maybe you should have jumped in on bearitto. One thing I don't miss about Christians is the "my flavor is better than yours because mine is the only flavor".

My last church was majority Republican but politics never stopped the congregation from being Christ-centered. It simply didn't matter.
LIB,MR BEARS
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quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Bearitto said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I expect Baylor to have speakers with differing political views, even controversial political views. I've no problem with that.

When it comes to Christianity however, there is a "framework" that should always be there. Can there be differing views on some things? Sure. But, in the words of Alistair Begg, " the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." When we start adding to or taking away from that while teaching, we are misleading others and are creating false gods.

BU needs to be very careful that they choose speakers that have the ability to stay true to the faith while presenting a variety of political views.


The problem is, it's virtually impossible to be a Christian and a leftist. You can't worship God and government simultaneously.
What a stupid statement. But then I'd expect nothing better from a religious bigot.
I think Christians can have differing political views. However, can you backup your statement?

Then maybe you should have jumped in on bearitto. One thing I don't miss about Christians is the "my flavor is better than yours because mine is the only flavor".

My last church was majority Republican but politics never stopped the congregation from being Christ-centered. It simply didn't matter.
Which bearitto statement? We are on page 4 here. Also, I believe I've addressed the "flavors" when I quoted Alistair Begg, "the main things are the plain things and, the plain things are the main things." If it is outside of that and doesn't alter the gospel, I'm cool with that.

Bearitto
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

Bearitto said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I expect Baylor to have speakers with differing political views, even controversial political views. I've no problem with that.

When it comes to Christianity however, there is a "framework" that should always be there. Can there be differing views on some things? Sure. But, in the words of Alistair Begg, " the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." When we start adding to or taking away from that while teaching, we are misleading others and are creating false gods.

BU needs to be very careful that they choose speakers that have the ability to stay true to the faith while presenting a variety of political views.


The problem is, it's virtually impossible to be a Christian and a leftist. You can't worship God and government simultaneously.
What a stupid statement. But then I'd expect nothing better from a religious bigot.


Matthew 6:24 - "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." Jesus Christ

For leftists, government is the means to their wealth by forcibly acquiring the wealth of others. Government is personification of their mammon.

If I'm a bigot, so is Christ. I'm fine in His company.
Bearitto
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quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Bearitto said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I expect Baylor to have speakers with differing political views, even controversial political views. I've no problem with that.

When it comes to Christianity however, there is a "framework" that should always be there. Can there be differing views on some things? Sure. But, in the words of Alistair Begg, " the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." When we start adding to or taking away from that while teaching, we are misleading others and are creating false gods.

BU needs to be very careful that they choose speakers that have the ability to stay true to the faith while presenting a variety of political views.


The problem is, it's virtually impossible to be a Christian and a leftist. You can't worship God and government simultaneously.
What a stupid statement. But then I'd expect nothing better from a religious bigot.
I think Christians can have differing political views. However, can you backup your statement?

Then maybe you should have jumped in on bearitto. One thing I don't miss about Christians is the "my flavor is better than yours because mine is the only flavor".

My last church was majority Republican but politics never stopped the congregation from being Christ-centered. It simply didn't matter.


So in your opinion, praying to other gods in contravention to the commandment "have no other gods before Me" is just another "flavor" of Christianity. I see.
Aliceinbubbleland
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@BaylorFTW

Are these folks doomed in your opinion?

Bearitto
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

@BaylorFTW

Are these folks doomed in your opinion?




What did Jesus say?
quash
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Bearitto said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Bearitto said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I expect Baylor to have speakers with differing political views, even controversial political views. I've no problem with that.

When it comes to Christianity however, there is a "framework" that should always be there. Can there be differing views on some things? Sure. But, in the words of Alistair Begg, " the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." When we start adding to or taking away from that while teaching, we are misleading others and are creating false gods.

BU needs to be very careful that they choose speakers that have the ability to stay true to the faith while presenting a variety of political views.


The problem is, it's virtually impossible to be a Christian and a leftist. You can't worship God and government simultaneously.
What a stupid statement. But then I'd expect nothing better from a religious bigot.
I think Christians can have differing political views. However, can you backup your statement?

Then maybe you should have jumped in on bearitto. One thing I don't miss about Christians is the "my flavor is better than yours because mine is the only flavor".

My last church was majority Republican but politics never stopped the congregation from being Christ-centered. It simply didn't matter.


So in your opinion, praying to other gods in contravention to the commandment "have no other gods before Me" is just another "flavor" of Christianity. I see.
She didn't do that. Oh, wait, you still think she said "mother mystery"...

No, that can't be it. Did you hear someone pray to the govt?
Bearitto
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quash said:

Bearitto said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Bearitto said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I expect Baylor to have speakers with differing political views, even controversial political views. I've no problem with that.

When it comes to Christianity however, there is a "framework" that should always be there. Can there be differing views on some things? Sure. But, in the words of Alistair Begg, " the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." When we start adding to or taking away from that while teaching, we are misleading others and are creating false gods.

BU needs to be very careful that they choose speakers that have the ability to stay true to the faith while presenting a variety of political views.


The problem is, it's virtually impossible to be a Christian and a leftist. You can't worship God and government simultaneously.
What a stupid statement. But then I'd expect nothing better from a religious bigot.
I think Christians can have differing political views. However, can you backup your statement?

Then maybe you should have jumped in on bearitto. One thing I don't miss about Christians is the "my flavor is better than yours because mine is the only flavor".

My last church was majority Republican but politics never stopped the congregation from being Christ-centered. It simply didn't matter.


So in your opinion, praying to other gods in contravention to the commandment "have no other gods before Me" is just another "flavor" of Christianity. I see.
She didn't do that. Oh, wait, you still think she said "mother mystery"...

No, that can't be it. Did you hear someone pray to the govt?


Oh wait, you think she prayed to the Father instead of "mystery". As a genre of fiction it's fine. As a god to pray to, not so much.

quash
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Bearitto said:

quash said:

Bearitto said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Bearitto said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I expect Baylor to have speakers with differing political views, even controversial political views. I've no problem with that.

When it comes to Christianity however, there is a "framework" that should always be there. Can there be differing views on some things? Sure. But, in the words of Alistair Begg, " the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." When we start adding to or taking away from that while teaching, we are misleading others and are creating false gods.

BU needs to be very careful that they choose speakers that have the ability to stay true to the faith while presenting a variety of political views.


The problem is, it's virtually impossible to be a Christian and a leftist. You can't worship God and government simultaneously.
What a stupid statement. But then I'd expect nothing better from a religious bigot.
I think Christians can have differing political views. However, can you backup your statement?

Then maybe you should have jumped in on bearitto. One thing I don't miss about Christians is the "my flavor is better than yours because mine is the only flavor".

My last church was majority Republican but politics never stopped the congregation from being Christ-centered. It simply didn't matter.


So in your opinion, praying to other gods in contravention to the commandment "have no other gods before Me" is just another "flavor" of Christianity. I see.
She didn't do that. Oh, wait, you still think she said "mother mystery"...

No, that can't be it. Did you hear someone pray to the govt?


Oh wait, you think she prayed to the Father instead of "mystery". As a genre of fiction it's fine. As a god to pray to, not so much.


Nothing wrong with mystery. My former pastor did his doctoral thesis on the trinity and humbly acknowledged the mystery of god from the pulpit. That's why a common truism is "the lord moves in mysterious ways". There's a complete study program on the mystery of god. You could look it up.
sombear
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I'm going to seem all over the place here, but just caught up on this, and while few things shock me these days, this episode is one . . . .

* Is it true this is about ONE student speaking out during her "sermon?" If so, lighten the heck up. The speaker proudly takes on controversial topics. She should not be so easily offended by one student.
* That said, I believe no students should speak out DURING chapel. Ever.
* But, it seems mostly the left offended here. Are these folks oblivious to what the left does across the country to speakers? They don't allow them to speak. They try to get their own faculty fired. This is rank hypocrisy.
* Some of my favorite college memories are of speeches by those with whom I disagreed. I agree this is a key part of learning.
* However, chapel is chapel. Baylor is a Christian university that believes Jesus is the savior and son of God and the Bible is the word of God. Obviously, there is plenty of room for debate and interpretation within that, but nothing outside of that should be presented at chapel, and that should be the core message of chapel. It's about helping students grow in their faith. Other university events, of course. I'm all for that.
* Reading the speaker's Twitter and other material, she focuses very little on anything close to Baylor's Christian beliefs. She is ambiguous at best in her core theological beliefs, and 99% of her material is more political than it is Christian or theological. Again, that is great, but not for chapel. She should not have been invited to lead chapel, period. (Again I emphasize that she still should have been treated with the utmost respect during chapel.)
* It is difficult to discern in all the back and forth, but it seems much of the speaker's complaint (in addition to the student speaking out) is that since the chapel, many have spoken out opposing her views. Again, this is silly. She brags about igniting controversy. And that is great, but don't whine when you actually create controversy!
* While I am conservative, I strongly disagree with those who say you can't be Christian and liberal. Many of my closest friends and favorite authors are committed, "fundamentalist" Christians, who happy to be liberal. They focus on helping the poor and loving, welcoming, and accepting all. While I disagree on what systems of government best achieve these goals, reasonable Christians can disagree. While I will never understand a Christian supporting legalized abortion, we live in a 2-party system, and
* That said, in reading the speaker's material, she seems to be the close minded one. In her view, if you do not 100% buy into her view of a hostile, racist society or that white people are what's wrong with our country and "American Christianity," then you are not Christian. She openly mocks Christians who disagree with her and even resorts to name-calling.
* Now, she and her followers are using this as an opportunity to criticize Baylor and actually are taking shots at the University as a whole. That is wrong.
Aliceinbubbleland
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Quote:

However, chapel is chapel. Baylor is a Christian university that believes Jesus is the savior and son of God and the Bible is the word of God. Obviously, there is plenty of room for debate and interpretation within that, but nothing outside of that should be presented at chapel, and that should be the core message of chapel. It's about helping students grow in their faith. Other university events, of course. I'm all for that.

Here is where we differ. Education is about challenging thought. Why should any believer be afraid of someone thinking differently then they do? Why draw a curtain about Chapel? The only curtain that should be drawn around Chapel is politics. I know nothing of this woman but the part I quoted in previous post regarding her prayer seems harmless. Did she ask the first time attenders to join her movement or just join her prayer?
LIB,MR BEARS
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If it were called "mosque" I would would be shocked to hear Protestant theology.

It is called "chapel" I'm shocked to hear something outside of Protestant theology.

Is I stated earlier, if speakers are brought in from other faiths for the purpose of educating, then have that as part of the intro.

ie... Today, we are bringing in Elijah Nelson to speak to you about the LDS church.

Learning about other faiths can be helpful in how we work together as well as how we minister to others.

Baylor should not bring in other faiths cloaked as Christianity when that is not what it is.
sombear
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

Quote:

However, chapel is chapel. Baylor is a Christian university that believes Jesus is the savior and son of God and the Bible is the word of God. Obviously, there is plenty of room for debate and interpretation within that, but nothing outside of that should be presented at chapel, and that should be the core message of chapel. It's about helping students grow in their faith. Other university events, of course. I'm all for that.

Here is where we differ. Education is about challenging thought. Why should any believer be afraid of someone thinking differently then they do? Why draw a curtain about Chapel? The only curtain that should be drawn around Chapel is politics. I know nothing of this woman but the part I quoted in previous post regarding her prayer seems harmless. Did she ask the first time attenders to join her movement or just join her prayer?
I understand your point. I just disagree. I compare it to my church. Sunday message is about our Christianity. Our pastor has invited all different types of guest speakers for special Wednesday or Saturday night events. I enjoy those but not on Sunday. And I consider chapel more like a Sunday service. And, by the way, I don't mind politics at chapel if it's truly connected to the sermon. Sometimes they are entwined, and that's fine, even when I disagree. But, the entire point of the message should not be politics, and from what I've read, this one was mostly politics.

I agree challenging thought is important in education, but students get that in class, in activities, in every day life, and at other presentations. Finally, I think the prayer was a bit odd and ambiguous, but I have no huge issue with "mystery" in itself. The rest of her message was more problematic to me, and, again, that's only because it belonged somewhere other than chapel.
ShooterTX
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

Quote:

However, chapel is chapel. Baylor is a Christian university that believes Jesus is the savior and son of God and the Bible is the word of God. Obviously, there is plenty of room for debate and interpretation within that, but nothing outside of that should be presented at chapel, and that should be the core message of chapel. It's about helping students grow in their faith. Other university events, of course. I'm all for that.

Here is where we differ. Education is about challenging thought. Why should any believer be afraid of someone thinking differently then they do? Why draw a curtain about Chapel? The only curtain that should be drawn around Chapel is politics. I know nothing of this woman but the part I quoted in previous post regarding her prayer seems harmless. Did she ask the first time attenders to join her movement or just join her prayer?

The problem is that Chapel is not the forum for academic or philosophical education, but for theological education. Her speech would have been totally appropriate as a special speaker event on Thursday night or something along those lines. This kind of politically, "social justice" charged speech is not appropriate for Chapel.

I am only about half way through the video of her talk. It opens with prayer, then songs of worship, then a reading of the Bible, then she is introduced.... does this sound like a typical lecture hall to anyone? This is Chapel, not Social Justice 101.

They should not have scheduled a speaker who spends 80% of her time talking about Native American (pagan) relgionous thoughts and 00.1% of her time on Jesus & the Bible.... for Chapel. They should have scheduled her as a special speaker in a different venue.

She may claim to be a Christian, but the Bible is very clear that there will be many who claim Christ, but He will say that they never knew Him. I would say that she fits into that category, based upon her speech and her social media posts.
D. C. Bear
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

Quote:

However, chapel is chapel. Baylor is a Christian university that believes Jesus is the savior and son of God and the Bible is the word of God. Obviously, there is plenty of room for debate and interpretation within that, but nothing outside of that should be presented at chapel, and that should be the core message of chapel. It's about helping students grow in their faith. Other university events, of course. I'm all for that.

Here is where we differ. Education is about challenging thought. Why should any believer be afraid of someone thinking differently then they do? Why draw a curtain about Chapel? The only curtain that should be drawn around Chapel is politics. I know nothing of this woman but the part I quoted in previous post regarding her prayer seems harmless. Did she ask the first time attenders to join her movement or just join her prayer?


It depends on what the stated purpose of "Chapel" is. (it was called Chapel/Forum when I attended). If it is designed to be like a church service, there should not be a bunch of random non-Christian theology thrown in. If it is to expose students to a variety of challenging perspectives, then a variety of challenging perspectives should be expected and presented. I prefer the latter, as I went to church for a church service, not chapel/forum.
Kyle
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That's where I shake out. To take a step back, what is the mission / purpose of "Chapel." I was there when it was "Chapel-Forum" and seemed like a mix of Christian teaching and cultural-political lectures.

Seems reasonable if "Chapel" is chapel in the most basic sense, it would be reasonable for speakers to present messages in line with Christian orthodoxy. That seems very reasonable and pretty easy to define.

Subjectively, I would think Chapel probably is best served for mainstream speakers versus extremists. I would welcome those extremists on campus and to speak, just not sure Chapel is the correct venue.
 
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