Baylor Chapel and False Teaching

9,831 Views | 280 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by TexasScientist
FormerFlash
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Osodecentx said:

D. C. Bear said:

FormerFlash said:

I found this quote from that article very interesting:

The outburst was not part of the service that Baylor recorded and posted on its website.


To everyone who was defending this speaker and encouraging others to listen to the recording of her speech on the website, this shows very clearly that the video of the speech has been edited and not all parts of it are available online. Does that seem odd to anyone else? Why would Baylor doctor the footage unless there were things said they didn't really want made public?

Also the quote about her saying she's now definitely going to use the "Mother Mystery" line tells you everything you need to know about this woman. She is a troll just trying to get a rise out of people. Because if she can do that, she can immediately claim the rise isn't caused by what she said but by white patriarchy, or a desire to oppress her or women in general or Native Americans or whatever victim status she feels like claiming at the time.

In my opinion, those two aspects of this article should put this issue completely to rest because it has exposed Baylor's role and her motivations.
I find it interesting that you decided to leap to a false conclusion and accuse Baylor of "doctoring footage." Had I made an accusation like that based incredibly poor logic, I would be quite embarassed by it. You are free to hold your opinion, but you can't just make up facts to bolster it as you have done here in accusing Baylor of "doctoring footage."

If the speaker is a troll just tying to get a rise out of people, she has most certainly been successful in your case.


Yep
A Russian bot trying to divide us

Mudbear
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Agree Bearitto! She obviously has no problem using "Mother Mystery" either and recently wrote a new prayer to "Mother Mystery" and said it could be used in a pagan setting. She is way to political and masquerading as a Christian. She stirred the pot (as she intended) and now is playing victim at Baylor's expense to sell her new book $$. Do better screening Baylor and stop the liberal indoctrination especially using chapel to do so.
Bearitto
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Mudbear said:



Agree Bearitto! She obviously has no problem using "Mother Mystery" either and recently wrote a new prayer to "Mother Mystery" and said it could be used in a pagan setting. She is way to political and masquerading as a Christian. She stirred the pot (as she intended) and now is playing victim at Baylor's expense to sell her new book $$. Do better screening Baylor and stop the liberal indoctrination especially using chapel to do so.


Whoever booked her knew exactly what they were doing. They knew exactly the kind of scummy, racist, sexist, pagan, leftist she is. They need to be fired.
Osodecentx
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Have any students renounced Christianity?
LIB,MR BEARS
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Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Osodecentx
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
It would be for building the minds of students. They will encounter much worse than this when they leave the Bubble.

This lady is a dingbat. We are giving her exactly what she wants. Ignore her.
ShooterTX
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Osodecentx said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
It would be for building the minds of students. They will encounter much worse than this when they leave the Bubble.

This lady is a dingbat. We are giving her exactly what she wants. Ignore her.


Students will face much worse, this is true. However, will they face such paganism, anti- Christian ideas from the pulpit of a church? And if they do, will you continue to claim it is no big deal? No need for action from the church leadership or the congregation? No questioning of why this person was allowed to speak from a position of authority in the church?
This is chapel, not a classroom. HUGE difference.
Your apathy is alarming.
Osodecentx
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ShooterTX said:

Osodecentx said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
It would be for building the minds of students. They will encounter much worse than this when they leave the Bubble.

This lady is a dingbat. We are giving her exactly what she wants. Ignore her.


Students will face much worse, this is true. However, will they face such paganism, anti- Christian ideas from the pulpit of a church? And if they do, will you continue to claim it is no big deal? No need for action from the church leadership or the congregation? No questioning of why this person was allowed to speak from a position of authority in the church?
This is chapel, not a classroom. HUGE difference.
Your apathy is alarming.
I am not apathetic about students learning how to use their minds.

I'm not apathetic about people blowing molehills into Mt Everest.

You and I disagree. vive la diffrence
Bearitto
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Osodecentx said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
It would be for building the minds of students. They will encounter much worse than this when they leave the Bubble.

This lady is a dingbat. We are giving her exactly what she wants. Ignore her.


Building minds? To listen to a racist, sexist, leftist, pagan whose message was ENDORSED by Baylor University and delivered in a mandatory forum called Chapel? Hogwash. This had nothing to do with building minds. It had to do with some leftist staffer feeling he or she could bring in an anti-Christian propagandist and the current leadership wouldn't do a thing about it because they are weak, vapid and useless as leaders.

Right now, Livingstone's SJW diversity department is probably setting up more unconscious bias training to tell all the Christians how awful their morals are.
Osodecentx
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You need to call 911

Your hair is on fire
Bearitto
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Osodecentx said:

You need to call 911

Your hair is on fire


You come across like a hipster. Caring about important things just isn't 'cool' unless you can be ironic somehow.

You have a handle bar mustache and ride a penny-farthing bicycle to your community garden plot where you grow rutabagas, don't you?
Osodecentx
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Bearitto said:

Osodecentx said:

You need to call 911

Your hair is on fire


You come across like a hipster. Caring about important things just isn't 'cool' unless you can be ironic somehow.

You have a handle bar mustache and ride a penny-farthing bicycle to your community garden plot where you grow rutabagas, don't you?
We just disagree. I'll counter a logical argument when I see it.

You are hysterical.

You're channelling your Oldbear
LIB,MR BEARS
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Osodecentx said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
It would be for building the minds of students. They will encounter much worse than this when they leave the Bubble.

This lady is a dingbat. We are giving her exactly what she wants. Ignore her.
Thanks for the answer!

Obviously my answer would be to build faith in chapel and minds in the classroom.
ShooterTX
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Osodecentx said:

You need to call 911

Your hair is on fire


I think you need the 911 call for lack of brain activity.
Chapel is not a venue for academics, but for spiritual growth. It is a 2 hours of credit in a 100+ hour degree plan. The other 98+ hours are for speakers like this, but not the tiny 2 hours of Baptist Chapel services.

If what you are saying is true, then why do they have scripture reading, worship time and prayer during a purely academic setting? Do they do these activities before every philosophy lecture?

Chapel is different. If you can't see that, then you need to get to a hospital right away.

The reason this happened is that they knew that if her rant were optional, then no one would show up to hear this dingbat. So they forced students to listen to her insanity, with no counterpoint, correction or rebuttal.
Osodecentx
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ShooterTX said:

Osodecentx said:

You need to call 911

Your hair is on fire


I think you need the 911 call for lack of brain activity.
Chapel is not a venue for academics, but for spiritual growth. It is a 2 hours of credit in a 100+ hour degree plan. The other 98+ hours are for speakers like this, but not the tiny 2 hours of Baptist Chapel services.

If what you are saying is true, then why do they have scripture reading, worship time and prayer during a purely academic setting? Do they do these activities before every philosophy lecture?

Chapel is different. If you can't see that, then you need to get to a hospital right away.

The reason this happened is that they knew that if her rant were optional, then no one would show up to hear this dingbat. So they forced students to listen to her insanity, with no counterpoint, correction or rebuttal.
I taught my children to think.

Why do mix mix good, logical arguments with dumb attacks?

Look, we just disagree
quash
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Not a stumbling block but "a stepping stone to rise above".
LIB,MR BEARS
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quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Not a stumbling block but "a stepping stone to rise above".
The 74% statistic I posted above indicates otherwise.
Sam Lowry
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Osodecentx said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
It would be for building the minds of students. They will encounter much worse than this when they leave the Bubble.

This lady is a dingbat. We are giving her exactly what she wants. Ignore her.
The question isn't whether they'll encounter something worse; it's whether they'll encounter something better. That's supposed to be the part of our mission that chapel represents.

I know several folks in Spiritual Life. I like them. I'm not here to judge their motives. I also understand the whole poem-as-prayer thing. I've written in the genre before (and been paid). I've read a few things at Baylor events that were arguably more suspect than this. Just not in chapel. There's a place for artistic exploration, a place for critical thinking, a place for evangelism. Often they go together, but in this case I think the Gospel got short shrift. And even those who may not be interested in religion per se have a stake in the university's direction and how it responds to things like critical theory and identity politics. Leftist fundamentalism is still fundamentalism. We need to question how compatible wokeness is with building up the minds of students too, not just their souls.
quash
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Not a stumbling block but "a stepping stone to rise above".
The 74% statistic I posted above indicates otherwise.
No, because your stat is for all colleges. Students at Baylor receive far more support for their faith than they do "stumbling blocks".

And to address that stat more directly maybe parents and churches bear some of the responsibility for students' losing their faith when exposed to new thoughts at college. My church had a summer program for graduated HS seniors that exposed us to a variety of things, including other religious ways of thinking, some of them nominally Christian. So far as I know 40+ years later I'm the only apostate.
CHP Bear
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Bearitto said:

Mudbear said:



Agree Bearitto! She obviously has no problem using "Mother Mystery" either and recently wrote a new prayer to "Mother Mystery" and said it could be used in a pagan setting. She is way to political and masquerading as a Christian. She stirred the pot (as she intended) and now is playing victim at Baylor's expense to sell her new book $$. Do better screening Baylor and stop the liberal indoctrination especially using chapel to do so.


Whoever booked her knew exactly what they were doing. They knew exactly the kind of scummy, racist, sexist, pagan, leftist she is. They need to be fired.
You are right on both exactly accounts. What better way to capture students than in a required setting. Spring just around the corner. Will be getting Mother Earth ready for planting. Think I'll start with the pickaxe.
FormerFlash
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quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Not a stumbling block but "a stepping stone to rise above".
The 74% statistic I posted above indicates otherwise.
No, because your stat is for all colleges. Students at Baylor receive far more support for their faith than they do "stumbling blocks".


This is an interesting thought. I'd be curious what that stat actually is at Baylor. I'd expect the percentage of students who call themselves Christians upon entering is likely higher than the national average and the percentage who renounce their faith lower. However, the renouncement statistic may be higher than many of us might expect.

There is a certain part of me that feels like even a single student entering as a Christian and then renouncing their faith during their time at Baylor is one too many. With Christianity being the foundation for everything Baylor stands for, if kids are being turned away from Christ during their time on campus we are failing them.
Osodecentx
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Sam Lowry said:

Osodecentx said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
It would be for building the minds of students. They will encounter much worse than this when they leave the Bubble.

This lady is a dingbat. We are giving her exactly what she wants. Ignore her.
The question isn't whether they'll encounter something worse; it's whether they'll encounter something better. That's supposed to be the part of our mission that chapel represents.

I know several folks in Spiritual Life. I like them. I'm not here to judge their motives. I also understand the whole poem-as-prayer thing. I've written in the genre before (and been paid). I've read a few things at Baylor events that were arguably more suspect than this. Just not in chapel. There's a place for artistic exploration, a place for critical thinking, a place for evangelism. Often they go together, but in this case I think the Gospel got short shrift. And even those who may not be interested in religion per se have a stake in the university's direction and how it responds to things like critical theory and identity politics. Leftist fundamentalism is still fundamentalism. We need to question how compatible wokeness is with building up the minds of students too, not just their souls.
Good post.

Let me think on this. I'll be back
Sam Lowry
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quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Not a stumbling block but "a stepping stone to rise above".
The 74% statistic I posted above indicates otherwise.
No, because your stat is for all colleges. Students at Baylor receive far more support for their faith than they do "stumbling blocks".

And to address that stat more directly maybe parents and churches bear some of the responsibility for students' losing their faith when exposed to new thoughts at college. My church had a summer program for graduated HS seniors that exposed us to a variety of things, including other religious ways of thinking, some of them nominally Christian. So far as I know 40+ years later I'm the only apostate.
Or at least the only one who quit going to church.

Parents are responsible. One of the things they're responsible for is educating their children in a way consistent with the faith. One of the things a university can do is help them in that effort - or hinder them. Responsibility isn't either/or. Everything works together.
quash
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FormerFlash said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Not a stumbling block but "a stepping stone to rise above".
The 74% statistic I posted above indicates otherwise.
No, because your stat is for all colleges. Students at Baylor receive far more support for their faith than they do "stumbling blocks".


This is an interesting thought. I'd be curious what that stat actually is at Baylor. I'd expect the percentage of students who call themselves Christians upon entering is likely higher than the national average and the percentage who renounce their faith lower. However, the renouncement statistic may be higher than many of us might expect.

There is a certain part of me that feels like even a single student entering as a Christian and then renouncing their faith during their time at Baylor is one too many. With Christianity being the foundation for everything Baylor stands for, if kids are being turned away from Christ during their time on campus we are failing them.
I didn't know any that left the faith during school, but I know less than a dozen that have since, just none from my church where I grew up. I honestly cannot recall any non-Christians from my undergrad days; there were several at the law school.
Sam Lowry
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FormerFlash said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Not a stumbling block but "a stepping stone to rise above".
The 74% statistic I posted above indicates otherwise.
No, because your stat is for all colleges. Students at Baylor receive far more support for their faith than they do "stumbling blocks".


This is an interesting thought. I'd be curious what that stat actually is at Baylor. I'd expect the percentage of students who call themselves Christians upon entering is likely higher than the national average and the percentage who renounce their faith lower. However, the renouncement statistic may be higher than many of us might expect.

There is a certain part of me that feels like even a single student entering as a Christian and then renouncing their faith during their time at Baylor is one too many. With Christianity being the foundation for everything Baylor stands for, if kids are being turned away from Christ during their time on campus we are failing them.
The fact that renunciation is taken as a key metric is itself evidence of the problem. A healthy organization does more than count casualties.
quash
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Sam Lowry said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Not a stumbling block but "a stepping stone to rise above".
The 74% statistic I posted above indicates otherwise.
No, because your stat is for all colleges. Students at Baylor receive far more support for their faith than they do "stumbling blocks".

And to address that stat more directly maybe parents and churches bear some of the responsibility for students' losing their faith when exposed to new thoughts at college. My church had a summer program for graduated HS seniors that exposed us to a variety of things, including other religious ways of thinking, some of them nominally Christian. So far as I know 40+ years later I'm the only apostate.
Or at least the only one who quit going to church.

Parents are responsible. One of the things they're responsible for is educating their children in a way consistent with the faith. One of the things a university can do is help them in that effort - or hinder them. Responsibility isn't either/or. Everything works together.
Going to church makes one a Christian in the same way that going to the garage makes one a car.

I think that exposing students to different views falls under help, not hinder. As Housman says "Mithridates, he died old."
quash
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Sam Lowry said:

FormerFlash said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Not a stumbling block but "a stepping stone to rise above".
The 74% statistic I posted above indicates otherwise.
No, because your stat is for all colleges. Students at Baylor receive far more support for their faith than they do "stumbling blocks".


This is an interesting thought. I'd be curious what that stat actually is at Baylor. I'd expect the percentage of students who call themselves Christians upon entering is likely higher than the national average and the percentage who renounce their faith lower. However, the renouncement statistic may be higher than many of us might expect.

There is a certain part of me that feels like even a single student entering as a Christian and then renouncing their faith during their time at Baylor is one too many. With Christianity being the foundation for everything Baylor stands for, if kids are being turned away from Christ during their time on campus we are failing them.
The fact that renunciation is taken as a key metric is itself evidence of the problem. A healthy organization does more than count casualties.
I'm not sure Baylor even tracks that. But you can't raise the graduation rate if you don't count your dropouts correctly.
LIB,MR BEARS
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quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Not a stumbling block but "a stepping stone to rise above".
The 74% statistic I posted above indicates otherwise.
No, because your stat is for all colleges. Students at Baylor receive far more support for their faith than they do "stumbling blocks".

And to address that stat more directly maybe parents and churches bear some of the responsibility for students' losing their faith when exposed to new thoughts at college. My church had a summer program for graduated HS seniors that exposed us to a variety of things, including other religious ways of thinking, some of them nominally Christian. So far as I know 40+ years later I'm the only apostate.
I hope you sitting down when you read this

Regarding churches bearing responsibility: I agree with you 100%.

That being said, if we know Some parents are anti-vaccers, we don't stop taking precautions. If we know statistically that kids are at risk, why don't we strengthen their faith and, as the bubble says, teach the to defend the faith.
Sam Lowry
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quash said:

Sam Lowry said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Not a stumbling block but "a stepping stone to rise above".
The 74% statistic I posted above indicates otherwise.
No, because your stat is for all colleges. Students at Baylor receive far more support for their faith than they do "stumbling blocks".

And to address that stat more directly maybe parents and churches bear some of the responsibility for students' losing their faith when exposed to new thoughts at college. My church had a summer program for graduated HS seniors that exposed us to a variety of things, including other religious ways of thinking, some of them nominally Christian. So far as I know 40+ years later I'm the only apostate.
Or at least the only one who quit going to church.

Parents are responsible. One of the things they're responsible for is educating their children in a way consistent with the faith. One of the things a university can do is help them in that effort - or hinder them. Responsibility isn't either/or. Everything works together.
Going to church makes one a Christian in the same way that going to the garage makes one a car.

I think that exposing students to different views falls under help, not hinder. As Housman says "Mithridates, he died old."
That's what I mean.

Different views are fine, but we've yet to agree that KC's views differ meaningfully from Christianity. We're debating that issue because she opened the door to it. And again, fundamentalism of any stripe is what it is. If Baylor hosted a Christian dominionist to talk about the evils of interracial marriage, you can bet it would raise eyebrows. This person's views may be more respectable than those, but substantively they're not that far apart. I'm just saying we should remember that.
LIB,MR BEARS
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https://www.bcmofmemphis.com/single-post/2015/11/18/Why-Campus-Ministry

This is an older study. It addresses Christian kids at Christian campuses. The numbers don't reach the 74% number but they are high and the information is not anything of which to be proud.
Forest Bueller
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Osodecentx said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?


This lady is a dingbat. We are giving her exactly what she wants. Ignore her.
Yep.
Osodecentx
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Sam Lowry said:

Osodecentx said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
It would be for building the minds of students. They will encounter much worse than this when they leave the Bubble.

This lady is a dingbat. We are giving her exactly what she wants. Ignore her.
The question isn't whether they'll encounter something worse; it's whether they'll encounter something better. That's supposed to be the part of our mission that chapel represents.

I know several folks in Spiritual Life. I like them. I'm not here to judge their motives. I also understand the whole poem-as-prayer thing. I've written in the genre before (and been paid). I've read a few things at Baylor events that were arguably more suspect than this. Just not in chapel. There's a place for artistic exploration, a place for critical thinking, a place for evangelism. Often they go together, but in this case I think the Gospel got short shrift. And even those who may not be interested in religion per se have a stake in the university's direction and how it responds to things like critical theory and identity politics. Leftist fundamentalism is still fundamentalism. We need to question how compatible wokeness is with building up the minds of students too, not just their souls.
Every Chapel experience won't make a student's life better, that isn't realistic. I'm extending grace to the folks who scheduled the dingbat.

I'm not critical of the university for scheduling her. I will be critical if they reschedule her in a mandatory class. Bring her into a philosophy class or a religion class and allow cross examination. She'd be crushed.

I wonder at the overreaction I see on this thread. Christianity is more robust, in my opinion.
sombear
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I keep reading about how many of us are "going crazy," "making far too big a deal out of this," or "overreacting." I don't think this is the case at all. We're not protesting, boycotting, or otherwise going public. Rather, we're expressing our opinion in a BU forum. I submit this is the way it should be. We have legitimate concerns with how this happened and whether it should happen again in the future. Many of us believe chapel was not the place for this secular, one-sided message. It's just that simple. I believe if we ignore "small" things, they quickly and inevitably become bigger things. I'm not one to call for folks' jobs. I think that's a tactic of the left and woke culture. But, I do believe BU should review its processes and decide once and for all what chapel is all about.
FormerFlash
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quash said:

Sam Lowry said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Not a stumbling block but "a stepping stone to rise above".
The 74% statistic I posted above indicates otherwise.
No, because your stat is for all colleges. Students at Baylor receive far more support for their faith than they do "stumbling blocks".

And to address that stat more directly maybe parents and churches bear some of the responsibility for students' losing their faith when exposed to new thoughts at college. My church had a summer program for graduated HS seniors that exposed us to a variety of things, including other religious ways of thinking, some of them nominally Christian. So far as I know 40+ years later I'm the only apostate.
Or at least the only one who quit going to church.

Parents are responsible. One of the things they're responsible for is educating their children in a way consistent with the faith. One of the things a university can do is help them in that effort - or hinder them. Responsibility isn't either/or. Everything works together.
Going to church makes one a Christian in the same way that going to the garage makes one a car.

This is definitely a variation of an old DC Talk lyric.
quash
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FormerFlash said:

quash said:

Sam Lowry said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

quash said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Osodecentx said:

Have any students renounced Christianity?

As a result of this? No idea. However, 74% of college freshmen who enter school calling themselves Christians, renounce their faith in their first couple years.

Regardless of what Baylor's intent of chapel is, IF you were in charge of something called chapel at the worlds largest Baptist University, would chapel be for building up the faith, or something else? And, if something else, should that something else be something easily interpreted as a "stumbling block"?
Not a stumbling block but "a stepping stone to rise above".
The 74% statistic I posted above indicates otherwise.
No, because your stat is for all colleges. Students at Baylor receive far more support for their faith than they do "stumbling blocks".

And to address that stat more directly maybe parents and churches bear some of the responsibility for students' losing their faith when exposed to new thoughts at college. My church had a summer program for graduated HS seniors that exposed us to a variety of things, including other religious ways of thinking, some of them nominally Christian. So far as I know 40+ years later I'm the only apostate.
Or at least the only one who quit going to church.

Parents are responsible. One of the things they're responsible for is educating their children in a way consistent with the faith. One of the things a university can do is help them in that effort - or hinder them. Responsibility isn't either/or. Everything works together.
Going to church makes one a Christian in the same way that going to the garage makes one a car.

This is definitely a variation of an old DC Talk lyric.
I first heard it around 1972 in Houston, so...
 
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