Baylor student organization under fire
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Bet YCT gets cancelled/removed and Baylor G.A.Y. is officially recognized.
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?
When RD2 gets banned, my next screen name will be WokeBear.Mothra said:
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"
-- Barack Obama
-- Barack Obama
Surely nothing will happen officially since their stance is in line with the university's core beliefs.
My pronouns are Deez/Dem.
Oh boy. Just wait. This will get worse.
I was surprised to learn that Baylor has an equity office.
WWJD?
Speak the truth in love. Their lifestyle is wrong but salvation is readily attainable.BornAgain said:
WWJD?
My pronouns are Deez/Dem.
To be fair, most Baylor alums are also under fire these days.
They went farther than this. They said that if you're an ally of the movement, you aren't a Christian.Mothra said:
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?
I don't find a gay hate clause in John 3:16.
Furthermore, there are many Christ followers who interpret the Bible differently from you on this issue. This doesn't mean they aren't Christians. It just means they have a different interpretation.
There are many different nuances to this issue. These YCT pronouncements are basically ugly and mean-spirited.
This isn't even a core issue in the scriptures. The scriptures talk a lot more about greed, injustice, hypocrisy, hate, and the like.
Basically, the YCT is straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Also, because they're young, they probably haven't learned the lesson that if you want a movement to gain sympathy and grow, attack it.
Not sure about that. It's one thing to say these practices are sinful. It's another to say that if you are sympathetic to such people you're going to hell.Gold Tron said:
Surely nothing will happen officially since their stance is in line with the university's core beliefs.
I guess by that definition, if your doctor warns you that smoking can give you a heart attack, that makes the doctor "hateful" and judgmental of a valid life choice.George Truett said:Not sure about that. It's one thing to say these practices are sinful. It's another to say that if you are sympathetic to such people you're going to hell.Gold Tron said:
Surely nothing will happen officially since their stance is in line with the university's core beliefs.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
read what I posted aboveGeorge Truett said:Not sure about that. It's one thing to say these practices are sinful. It's another to say that if you are sympathetic to such people you're going to hell.Gold Tron said:
Surely nothing will happen officially since their stance is in line with the university's core beliefs.
My pronouns are Deez/Dem.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10George Truett said:They went farther than this. They said that if you're an ally of the movement, you aren't a Christian.Mothra said:
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?
I don't find a gay hate clause in John 3:16.
Furthermore, there are many Christ followers who interpret the Bible differently from you on this issue. This doesn't mean they aren't Christians. It just means they have a different interpretation.
There are many different nuances to this issue. These YCT pronouncements are basically ugly and mean-spirited.
This isn't even a core issue in the scriptures. The scriptures talk a lot more about greed, injustice, hypocrisy, hate, and the like.
Basically, the YCT is straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Also, because they're young, they probably haven't learned the lesson that if you want a movement to gain sympathy and grow, attack it.
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
No, scripture isn't nuanced at all on the subject of sexual immorality, and even suggests that it causes more harm to the individual than other sins, as it is a sin against the body.George Truett said:They went farther than this. They said that if you're an ally of the movement, you aren't a Christian.Mothra said:
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?
I don't find a gay hate clause in John 3:16.
Furthermore, there are many Christ followers who interpret the Bible differently from you on this issue. This doesn't mean they aren't Christians. It just means they have a different interpretation.
There are many different nuances to this issue. These YCT pronouncements are basically ugly and mean-spirited.
This isn't even a core issue in the scriptures. The scriptures talk a lot more about greed, injustice, hypocrisy, hate, and the like.
Basically, the YCT is straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Also, because they're young, they probably haven't learned the lesson that if you want a movement to gain sympathy and grow, attack it.
Anyone who says that scripture doesn't condemn homosexuality is practicing the eisegesis you were so up in arms about on another thread.
But I agree with you, their message could have been better.
Funny that you would type your first paragraph and then talk about nuance.George Truett said:They went farther than this. They said that if you're an ally of the movement, you aren't a Christian.Mothra said:
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?
I don't find a gay hate clause in John 3:16.
Furthermore, there are many Christ followers who interpret the Bible differently from you on this issue. This doesn't mean they aren't Christians. It just means they have a different interpretation.
There are many different nuances to this issue. These YCT pronouncements are basically ugly and mean-spirited.
This isn't even a core issue in the scriptures. The scriptures talk a lot more about greed, injustice, hypocrisy, hate, and the like.
Basically, the YCT is straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Also, because they're young, they probably haven't learned the lesson that if you want a movement to gain sympathy and grow, attack it.
They did not say that if you are an ally of the movement that you aren't a Christian. They said that you likely aren't a Christian.
You can argue that point if you'd like, and I'm not saying that I agree totally with their statement, but at least don't misrepresent what they actually said.
You know, nuance and all.
No.Oldbear83 said:I guess by that definition, if your doctor warns you that smoking can give you a heart attack, that makes the doctor "hateful" and judgmental of a valid life choice.George Truett said:Not sure about that. It's one thing to say these practices are sinful. It's another to say that if you are sympathetic to such people you're going to hell.Gold Tron said:
Surely nothing will happen officially since their stance is in line with the university's core beliefs.
Going to hell is a little more severe than having a heart attack.
Plus, I don't believe being gay is a life choice.
Oh. Big difference.Friscobear said:Funny that you would type your first paragraph and then talk about nuance.George Truett said:They went farther than this. They said that if you're an ally of the movement, you aren't a Christian.Mothra said:
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?
I don't find a gay hate clause in John 3:16.
Furthermore, there are many Christ followers who interpret the Bible differently from you on this issue. This doesn't mean they aren't Christians. It just means they have a different interpretation.
There are many different nuances to this issue. These YCT pronouncements are basically ugly and mean-spirited.
This isn't even a core issue in the scriptures. The scriptures talk a lot more about greed, injustice, hypocrisy, hate, and the like.
Basically, the YCT is straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Also, because they're young, they probably haven't learned the lesson that if you want a movement to gain sympathy and grow, attack it.
They did not say that if you are an ally of the movement that you aren't a Christian. They said that you likely aren't a Christian.
You can argue that point if you'd like, and I'm not saying that I agree totally with their statement, but at least don't misrepresent what they actually said.
You know, nuance and all.
So you're not certainly going to hell but likely going to hell.
That clears it up!
Sure it is. You cannot help what you are attracted to but you can decide not to act on it. I find tall red headed women attractive but I am happily married to someone that does not bear that description.George Truett said:No.Oldbear83 said:I guess by that definition, if your doctor warns you that smoking can give you a heart attack, that makes the doctor "hateful" and judgmental of a valid life choice.George Truett said:Not sure about that. It's one thing to say these practices are sinful. It's another to say that if you are sympathetic to such people you're going to hell.Gold Tron said:
Surely nothing will happen officially since their stance is in line with the university's core beliefs.
Going to hell is a little more severe than having a heart attack.
Plus, I don't believe being gay is a life choice.
My pronouns are Deez/Dem.
You wouldn't call that a nuance?George Truett said:Oh. Big difference.Friscobear said:Funny that you would type your first paragraph and then talk about nuance.George Truett said:They went farther than this. They said that if you're an ally of the movement, you aren't a Christian.Mothra said:
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?
I don't find a gay hate clause in John 3:16.
Furthermore, there are many Christ followers who interpret the Bible differently from you on this issue. This doesn't mean they aren't Christians. It just means they have a different interpretation.
There are many different nuances to this issue. These YCT pronouncements are basically ugly and mean-spirited.
This isn't even a core issue in the scriptures. The scriptures talk a lot more about greed, injustice, hypocrisy, hate, and the like.
Basically, the YCT is straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Also, because they're young, they probably haven't learned the lesson that if you want a movement to gain sympathy and grow, attack it.
They did not say that if you are an ally of the movement that you aren't a Christian. They said that you likely aren't a Christian.
You can argue that point if you'd like, and I'm not saying that I agree totally with their statement, but at least don't misrepresent what they actually said.
You know, nuance and all.
So you're not certainly going to hell but likely going to hell.
That clears it up!
Doc Holliday said:1 Corinthians 6:9-10George Truett said:They went farther than this. They said that if you're an ally of the movement, you aren't a Christian.Mothra said:
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?
I don't find a gay hate clause in John 3:16.
Furthermore, there are many Christ followers who interpret the Bible differently from you on this issue. This doesn't mean they aren't Christians. It just means they have a different interpretation.
There are many different nuances to this issue. These YCT pronouncements are basically ugly and mean-spirited.
This isn't even a core issue in the scriptures. The scriptures talk a lot more about greed, injustice, hypocrisy, hate, and the like.
Basically, the YCT is straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Also, because they're young, they probably haven't learned the lesson that if you want a movement to gain sympathy and grow, attack it.
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
Christian men are a core audience for most major porn sites. Yet the church finds grace for them. If I didn't know any better, I might conclude that the Bible is being weaponized against communities the church finds expendable.
Then you believe God made them gay and then held them to a different standard.George Truett said:No.Oldbear83 said:I guess by that definition, if your doctor warns you that smoking can give you a heart attack, that makes the doctor "hateful" and judgmental of a valid life choice.George Truett said:Not sure about that. It's one thing to say these practices are sinful. It's another to say that if you are sympathetic to such people you're going to hell.Gold Tron said:
Surely nothing will happen officially since their stance is in line with the university's core beliefs.
Going to hell is a little more severe than having a heart attack.
Plus, I don't believe being gay is a life choice.
That would make God evil.
I wouldn't go so far as to say someone who struggles with sexual immorality is not a Christian. In fact, I think it is the struggle that defines us.bear2be2 said:Doc Holliday said:1 Corinthians 6:9-10George Truett said:They went farther than this. They said that if you're an ally of the movement, you aren't a Christian.Mothra said:
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?
I don't find a gay hate clause in John 3:16.
Furthermore, there are many Christ followers who interpret the Bible differently from you on this issue. This doesn't mean they aren't Christians. It just means they have a different interpretation.
There are many different nuances to this issue. These YCT pronouncements are basically ugly and mean-spirited.
This isn't even a core issue in the scriptures. The scriptures talk a lot more about greed, injustice, hypocrisy, hate, and the like.
Basically, the YCT is straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Also, because they're young, they probably haven't learned the lesson that if you want a movement to gain sympathy and grow, attack it.
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
Christian men are a core audience for most major porn sites. Yet the church finds grace for them. If I didn't know any better, I might conclude that the Bible is being weaponized against communities the church finds expendable.
The question is, is it truly a struggle, or have you given yourself over to a sexually immoral lifestyle? If you have, there is certainly scripture that does call into question whether that person is in fact a believer. The book of James is replete with verses on this subject.
Believe me, as someone who has struggled with pornography at times in my adult life, I am not casting stones, and truly have questioned at times my security. I think as Christians, we can certainly stumble, but I think that's different from choosing to give in to sin. There are no easy and definitive answers, IMO. But there is enough scripture on the subject of sexual immorality to give this believer pause.
Uh, no.Friscobear said:You wouldn't call that a nuance?George Truett said:Oh. Big difference.Friscobear said:Funny that you would type your first paragraph and then talk about nuance.George Truett said:They went farther than this. They said that if you're an ally of the movement, you aren't a Christian.Mothra said:
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?
I don't find a gay hate clause in John 3:16.
Furthermore, there are many Christ followers who interpret the Bible differently from you on this issue. This doesn't mean they aren't Christians. It just means they have a different interpretation.
There are many different nuances to this issue. These YCT pronouncements are basically ugly and mean-spirited.
This isn't even a core issue in the scriptures. The scriptures talk a lot more about greed, injustice, hypocrisy, hate, and the like.
Basically, the YCT is straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Also, because they're young, they probably haven't learned the lesson that if you want a movement to gain sympathy and grow, attack it.
They did not say that if you are an ally of the movement that you aren't a Christian. They said that you likely aren't a Christian.
You can argue that point if you'd like, and I'm not saying that I agree totally with their statement, but at least don't misrepresent what they actually said.
You know, nuance and all.
So you're not certainly going to hell but likely going to hell.
That clears it up!
I call that a distinction without a difference.
Nuance is: I believe homosexual practices are sinful, but homosexuals shouldn't be discriminated against. Or I believe people are born gay but should be celibate. Or I believe homosexual practices aren't sinful if the couple is married.
These and many more nuanced positions are out there.
I don't believe God made them gay. I believe many were born that way.Doc Holliday said:Then you believe God made them gay and then held them to a different standard.George Truett said:No.Oldbear83 said:I guess by that definition, if your doctor warns you that smoking can give you a heart attack, that makes the doctor "hateful" and judgmental of a valid life choice.George Truett said:Not sure about that. It's one thing to say these practices are sinful. It's another to say that if you are sympathetic to such people you're going to hell.Gold Tron said:
Surely nothing will happen officially since their stance is in line with the university's core beliefs.
Going to hell is a little more severe than having a heart attack.
Plus, I don't believe being gay is a life choice.
That would make God evil.
There's also debate about the meaning of scripture passages about homosexuality. We've already had debates at length about that around here. So I won't get into all that, other than to say sincere Christ followers disagree on the interpretation and application of these passages.
Yup. In short, we are all born sinners.George Truett said:I don't believe God made them gay. I believe many were born that way.Doc Holliday said:Then you believe God made them gay and then held them to a different standard.George Truett said:No.Oldbear83 said:I guess by that definition, if your doctor warns you that smoking can give you a heart attack, that makes the doctor "hateful" and judgmental of a valid life choice.George Truett said:Not sure about that. It's one thing to say these practices are sinful. It's another to say that if you are sympathetic to such people you're going to hell.Gold Tron said:
Surely nothing will happen officially since their stance is in line with the university's core beliefs.
Going to hell is a little more severe than having a heart attack.
Plus, I don't believe being gay is a life choice.
That would make God evil.
This is true.Mothra said:Yup. In short, we are all born sinners.George Truett said:I don't believe God made them gay. I believe many were born that way.Doc Holliday said:Then you believe God made them gay and then held them to a different standard.George Truett said:No.Oldbear83 said:I guess by that definition, if your doctor warns you that smoking can give you a heart attack, that makes the doctor "hateful" and judgmental of a valid life choice.George Truett said:Not sure about that. It's one thing to say these practices are sinful. It's another to say that if you are sympathetic to such people you're going to hell.Gold Tron said:
Surely nothing will happen officially since their stance is in line with the university's core beliefs.
Going to hell is a little more severe than having a heart attack.
Plus, I don't believe being gay is a life choice.
That would make God evil.
We also tend to think other people's sins are worse than our own.
Many do, no question.George Truett said:This is true.Mothra said:Yup. In short, we are all born sinners.George Truett said:I don't believe God made them gay. I believe many were born that way.Doc Holliday said:Then you believe God made them gay and then held them to a different standard.George Truett said:No.Oldbear83 said:I guess by that definition, if your doctor warns you that smoking can give you a heart attack, that makes the doctor "hateful" and judgmental of a valid life choice.George Truett said:Not sure about that. It's one thing to say these practices are sinful. It's another to say that if you are sympathetic to such people you're going to hell.Gold Tron said:
Surely nothing will happen officially since their stance is in line with the university's core beliefs.
Going to hell is a little more severe than having a heart attack.
Plus, I don't believe being gay is a life choice.
That would make God evil.
We also tend to think other people's sins are worse than our own.
You know that all these fundies citing cherry picked scriptures without context or textual criticism are all wanking to lesbos when the doors are closed.
So god made conditions in the Universe that would cause some to be gay without their control, and then states that engaging in that behavior is a sin...even though you can't control it.George Truett said:I don't believe God made them gay. I believe many were born that way.Doc Holliday said:Then you believe God made them gay and then held them to a different standard.George Truett said:No.Oldbear83 said:I guess by that definition, if your doctor warns you that smoking can give you a heart attack, that makes the doctor "hateful" and judgmental of a valid life choice.George Truett said:Not sure about that. It's one thing to say these practices are sinful. It's another to say that if you are sympathetic to such people you're going to hell.Gold Tron said:
Surely nothing will happen officially since their stance is in line with the university's core beliefs.
Going to hell is a little more severe than having a heart attack.
Plus, I don't believe being gay is a life choice.
That would make God evil.
There's also debate about the meaning of scripture passages about homosexuality. We've already had debates at length about that around here. So I won't get into all that, other than to say sincere Christ followers disagree on the interpretation and application of these passages.
That's screwed up. I think your message will turn people away from god.
Baylor YCT claimed that others they disagree with about the perceived sin of homosexuality are probably not Christian. Given that we are all sinners, I find that line of thinking dumb and offensive. I assume that we all agree that you can be wrong on the issue and still be a Christian? (Not that I agree with the underlying premise of the YCT argument either).Mothra said:
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?
You are entitled to your opinion. But quoting Bible verses in context is not something a Christian-inspired university ought to disparage.George Truett said:No.Oldbear83 said:I guess by that definition, if your doctor warns you that smoking can give you a heart attack, that makes the doctor "hateful" and judgmental of a valid life choice.George Truett said:Not sure about that. It's one thing to say these practices are sinful. It's another to say that if you are sympathetic to such people you're going to hell.Gold Tron said:
Surely nothing will happen officially since their stance is in line with the university's core beliefs.
Going to hell is a little more severe than having a heart attack.
Plus, I don't believe being gay is a life choice.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
I agree the statement was a little over the top, though it does find some support in scripture.Booray said:Baylor YCT claimed that others they disagree with about the perceived sin of homosexuality are probably not Christian. Given that we are all sinners, I find that line of thinking dumb and offensive. I assume that we all agree that you can be wrong on the issue and still be a Christian? (Not that I agree with the underlying premise of the YCT argument either).Mothra said:
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?
I am going to stick with the "Judge not" principle. Baylor YCT should also.Mothra said:I agree the statement was a little over the top, though it does find some support in scripture.Booray said:Baylor YCT claimed that others they disagree with about the perceived sin of homosexuality are probably not Christian. Given that we are all sinners, I find that line of thinking dumb and offensive. I assume that we all agree that you can be wrong on the issue and still be a Christian? (Not that I agree with the underlying premise of the YCT argument either).Mothra said:
So saying something as obvious as Scripture condemns homosexuality is now controversial and off-limits at a Christian University? It requires a review by Baylor?