midgett said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

They have been saying for 8 months now that hospitals are fixing to be full

---

In Colorado we are seeing our hospitals fill up rapidly .

ICU usage up dramatically.

Record amount of new infections in the last 24 hours .

And it's only mid November .

---

What's your solution? More lockdowns to kill more people otherwise especially young people?

---

Social distancing and selective lockdowns are the only solution .

Because paper and cloth masks are of limited effectiveness.

Canada2017 said:

---

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

They have been saying for 8 months now that hospitals are fixing to be full

---

In Colorado we are seeing our hospitals fill up rapidly .

ICU usage up dramatically.

Record amount of new infections in the last 24 hours .

And it's only mid November .

---

Not trying to be rude buddy but they said the same thing almost word for word six or seven months ago

Canada2017 said:

---

midgett said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

They have been saying for 8 months now that hospitals are fixing to be full

---

In Colorado we are seeing our hospitals fill up rapidly .

ICU usage up dramatically.

Record amount of new infections in the last 24 hours .

And it's only mid November .

---

What's your solution? More lockdowns to kill more people otherwise especially young people?

---

Social distancing and selective lockdowns are the only solution .

Because paper and cloth masks are of limited effectiveness.

---

Agree with social distancing. Cannot disagree enough with lockdowns.

Did you understand the Michigan figures? Tragically 784 over 3 months died from Covid. But TWICE as many deaths may be attributed to lockdowns. Any deaths are bad. If it's a choice between A or B, both have deaths but one has half as many, I'll take the half as many every time.

Special precautions for those at higher risk should be included but accommodations should be made for visitation. It's criminal my special needs sister who had no clue what was going on could have no visitors for 6 months and had to die partly of loneliness.

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .



Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

They have been saying for 8 months now that hospitals are fixing to be full

---

In Colorado we are seeing our hospitals fill up rapidly .

ICU usage up dramatically.

Record amount of new infections in the last 24 hours .

And it's only mid November .

---

Not trying to be rude buddy but they said the same thing almost word for word six or seven months ago

---

No, we have not seen anything like this in Colorado previously.

The most concerning numbers involve the state's ICU's and how quickly they are filling up .

I'm so sorry for your loss.

With case counts spiking above 150,000 per day, I think we need to resign ourselves to the fact that we will likely have 1,500-2,500 daily deaths for most of the next 3 months. I had a feeling that would happen come winter. More people inside, more likely to get the flu or other viruses alongside COVID. We just hit 250,000 deaths. So by March 1, that would put us between 400,000-500,000 deaths.

Unfortunately, I don't know what you do about it at this point. Europe has taken draconian measures over the past year and their death counts are spiking to their worst levels yet. The only way to stop this virus was to truly quarantine at the beginning like South Korea did. We didn't. Once it got out, the result was inevitable to some extent.

I could understand specific city lockdowns. A statewide or national lockdown again will probably send us fully into a depression. Too many businesses and industries barely hanging on.

Effectiveness of masks would increase severely if, oh I don't know, people actually wore them and wore them correctly. 15 minutes of mask-wearing a day is just too hard for 80% of Americans though. Can't be inconvenienced in the slightest.

Carlos Safety said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Stay strong my friend. Have a fine bottle of wine with the Mrs. on the back porch and enjoy a fine cigar. Distance yourself from the rest of the lepers connected to civilization. This too, shall pass.

---

Unless Remdesivir is somehow mass produced and distributed throughout the country within the next 90 days ....the view from your porch is going to be reminiscent of the 1918 pandemic .

Best estimates now ( without a vaccine or widely available treatment ) are a total of 400,000 to 500,000 dead by March 1, 2021.

And like the 1918 pandemic for every person who dies...at least two survivors suffer long lasting or even permanent damage .

BTW been to a leper colony; was about 15 years ago .

C-19 is far more contagious than leprosy .

---

Probably not. Initial projections were 400,000 dead in Dallas county before now. Well, that never happened and it wont.

---

I don't get how people don't understand that, for whatever the system, modeling power and accuracy increases exponentially with available data from said system. Yet people continue to cite the earliest plausible efforts to constrain future patterns as though that's even remotely as authoritative as refined models made months down the road.

midgett said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

midgett said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

They have been saying for 8 months now that hospitals are fixing to be full

---

In Colorado we are seeing our hospitals fill up rapidly .

ICU usage up dramatically.

Record amount of new infections in the last 24 hours .

And it's only mid November .

---

What's your solution? More lockdowns to kill more people otherwise especially young people?

---

Social distancing and selective lockdowns are the only solution .

Because paper and cloth masks are of limited effectiveness.

---

Agree with social distancing. Cannot disagree enough with lockdowns.

Did you understand the Michigan figures? Tragically 784 over 3 months died from Covid. But TWICE as many deaths may be attributed to lockdowns. Any deaths are bad. If it's a choice between A or B, both have deaths but one has half as many, I'll take the half as many every time.

Special precautions for those at higher risk should be included but accommodations should be made for visitation. It's criminal my special needs sister who had no clue what was going on could have no visitors for 6 months and had to die partly of loneliness.

---

I'm so sorry to heart that.

Same thing happened to my grandmother in July and I'm so angry and sad we couldn't see her.

I'm tired of people ignoring the implications of lockdowns and precautions. The effects will last a lifetime for many.

LTbear said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Stay strong my friend. Have a fine bottle of wine with the Mrs. on the back porch and enjoy a fine cigar. Distance yourself from the rest of the lepers connected to civilization. This too, shall pass.

---

Unless Remdesivir is somehow mass produced and distributed throughout the country within the next 90 days ....the view from your porch is going to be reminiscent of the 1918 pandemic .

Best estimates now ( without a vaccine or widely available treatment ) are a total of 400,000 to 500,000 dead by March 1, 2021.

And like the 1918 pandemic for every person who dies...at least two survivors suffer long lasting or even permanent damage .

BTW been to a leper colony; was about 15 years ago .

C-19 is far more contagious than leprosy .

---

Probably not. Initial projections were 400,000 dead in Dallas county before now. Well, that never happened and it wont.

---

I don't get how people don't understand that, for whatever the system, modeling power and accuracy increases exponentially with available data from said system. Yet people continue to cite the earliest plausible efforts to constrain future patterns as though that's even remotely as authoritative as refined models made months down the road.

---

Their initial estimates were outrageous on the face. The so called experts whipped everyone up into a frenzy, cost people their jobs, and have not done anything in the past seven months to justify a second chance. I will pass on the experts advice. It was expensive enough the first go around.

rudylaw said:

---

Effectiveness of masks would increase severely if, oh I don't know, people actually wore them and wore them correctly. 15 minutes of mask-wearing a day is just too hard for 80% of Americans though. Can't be inconvenienced in the slightest.

---

80% of Americans, really? I work in a grocery store and I would say 99% of people are wearing their masks, and at least 80% correctly. Now are they properly removing them, cleaning them, not touching them? Who knows, but I think you're being a little down on society.

I don't think masks hurt the situation at all, but I don't think that masks or social distancing are the magic pill. Even a lockdown isn't going to make this go away. We will hole up for 4-6 weeks and all the sudden cases will spike again.

It will have to run it's course. Those who want to avoid it at all costs can, but there will be costs. Those who want to live life will probably get it, and that may also have its costs. There isn't an answer and to pretend that anyone has one and that we need daddy government to make decisions for us is just wrong.

BearTruth13 said:

---

With case counts spiking above 150,000 per day, I think we need to resign ourselves to the fact that we will likely have 1,500-2,500 daily deaths for most of the next 3 months. I had a feeling that would happen come winter. More people inside, more likely to get the flu or other viruses alongside COVID. We just hit 250,000 deaths. So by March 1, that would put us between 400,000-500,000 deaths.

Unfortunately, I don't know what you do about it at this point. Europe has taken draconian measures over the past year and their death counts are spiking to their worst levels yet. The only way to stop this virus was to truly quarantine at the beginning like South Korea did. We didn't. Once it got out, the result was inevitable to some extent.

I could understand specific city lockdowns. A statewide or national lockdown again will probably send us fully into a depression. Too many businesses and industries barely hanging on.

---

Ever since grad school have been curious about the 1918 Spanish Influenza outbreak .

Initially because it was so 'hidden' from our cultural awareness despite the draconian casualties and massive psychological damage . As an amateur historian/ research entomologist this lack of transparency sparked a life long interest .

Little was written about the pandemic. Few people outside of the epidemiology/medical fields had even heard about it up to the advent of the internet .

In recent years there have been studies trying to establish how and why such a world wide catastrophe could be so effectively masked from public awareness.

As a result it has been appalling to me to witness the EXACT same political mistakes, deliberate misinformation, and PUBLIC stubbornness/ ignorance with this current C-19 pandemic as with the 1918 Spanish Influenza outbreak.

We have learned nothing as a people .

And hundreds of thousands will be dead because of it .

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

Canada2017 said:

---

Nice way of saying there is no number of deaths that would alter your mindset .


BTW even half of a percent death rate would result in over a million deaths .

That is not acceptable to me .

Not if common sense for only 90 more days could save hundreds of thousands of lives with vaccines and treatments on route .

---

90 days of what exactly? What are you proposing? Lockdowns? Easy for you to say. You're near retirement or retired. Those of us not on Medicare and with families have mouths to feed. 90 day lockdowns would force everyone into financial ruin. You want death and misery? Go ahead with that stupid proposal.

I am fine with precautions. Shutting down life? It hasn't worked Canada. It didn't work in Europe. It hasn't worked in California. Instead it's led to a second wave. Europe is worse than us right now.

Give me a reasonable proposal and I'll abide by it. Masks, reasonable social distancing - fine. But again I ask - what do you propose for 99 days? Sitting on your back porch and isolating? Throwing everyone out of work? No thanks. Those proposals suck.

Canada2017 said:

---

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

They have been saying for 8 months now that hospitals are fixing to be full

---

In Colorado we are seeing our hospitals fill up rapidly .

ICU usage up dramatically.

Record amount of new infections in the last 24 hours .

And it's only mid November .

---

Yea and you also told us opening up stadiums and sporting venues would be a disaster. How did that prediction turn out for you chicken little?

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

They have been saying for 8 months now that hospitals are fixing to be full

---

In Colorado we are seeing our hospitals fill up rapidly .

ICU usage up dramatically.

Record amount of new infections in the last 24 hours .

And it's only mid November .

---

Not trying to be rude buddy but they said the same thing almost word for word six or seven months ago

---

Bingo. I guess we need 90 day lockdowns every 90 days or so.

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

Just wait two weeks... The battle cry of the covaphobes.

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

They have been saying for 8 months now that hospitals are fixing to be full

---

In Colorado we are seeing our hospitals fill up rapidly .

ICU usage up dramatically.

Record amount of new infections in the last 24 hours .

And it's only mid November .

---

Yea and you also told us opening up stadiums and sporting venues would be a disaster. How did that prediction turn out for you chicken little?

---

Are you kidding ? Good God look around.

Sporting events in the middle of a pandemic remains one of the stupidest behaviors imaginable .

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

They have been saying for 8 months now that hospitals are fixing to be full

---

In Colorado we are seeing our hospitals fill up rapidly .

ICU usage up dramatically.

Record amount of new infections in the last 24 hours .

And it's only mid November .

---

Yea and you also told us opening up stadiums and sporting venues would be a disaster. How did that prediction turn out for you chicken little?

---

Are you kidding ? Good God look around.

Sporting events in the middle of a pandemic remains one of the stupidest behaviors imaginable .

---

What evidence do you have that it has led to any deaths? Please cite some evidence instead of unsupported assertions.

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

They have been saying for 8 months now that hospitals are fixing to be full

---

In Colorado we are seeing our hospitals fill up rapidly .

ICU usage up dramatically.

Record amount of new infections in the last 24 hours .

And it's only mid November .

---

Yea and you also told us opening up stadiums and sporting venues would be a disaster. How did that prediction turn out for you chicken little?

---

Are you kidding ? Good God look around.

Sporting events in the middle of a pandemic remains one of the stupidest behaviors imaginable .

---

What evidence do you have that it has led to any deaths? Please cite some evidence instead of unsupported assertions.

---

You just cant be this stupid.

No one with a college degree can be this stupid.

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

Carlos Safety said:

---

LTbear said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Stay strong my friend. Have a fine bottle of wine with the Mrs. on the back porch and enjoy a fine cigar. Distance yourself from the rest of the lepers connected to civilization. This too, shall pass.

---

Unless Remdesivir is somehow mass produced and distributed throughout the country within the next 90 days ....the view from your porch is going to be reminiscent of the 1918 pandemic .

Best estimates now ( without a vaccine or widely available treatment ) are a total of 400,000 to 500,000 dead by March 1, 2021.

And like the 1918 pandemic for every person who dies...at least two survivors suffer long lasting or even permanent damage .

BTW been to a leper colony; was about 15 years ago .

C-19 is far more contagious than leprosy .

---

Probably not. Initial projections were 400,000 dead in Dallas county before now. Well, that never happened and it wont.

---

I don't get how people don't understand that, for whatever the system, modeling power and accuracy increases exponentially with available data from said system. Yet people continue to cite the earliest plausible efforts to constrain future patterns as though that's even remotely as authoritative as refined models made months down the road.

---

Their initial estimates were outrageous on the face. The so called experts whipped everyone up into a frenzy, cost people their jobs, and have not done anything in the past seven months to justify a second chance. I will pass on the experts advice. It was expensive enough the first go around.

---

This is such a dumb post. "Better to not use the best data available at each point time in a continually self-improving manner to try and understand something, let's just see what happens instead. Maybe four million die, maybe no one does, it'll be an adventure"

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

They have been saying for 8 months now that hospitals are fixing to be full

---

In Colorado we are seeing our hospitals fill up rapidly .

ICU usage up dramatically.

Record amount of new infections in the last 24 hours .

And it's only mid November .

---

Yea and you also told us opening up stadiums and sporting venues would be a disaster. How did that prediction turn out for you chicken little?

---

Are you kidding ? Good God look around.

Sporting events in the middle of a pandemic remains one of the stupidest behaviors imaginable .

---

What evidence do you have that it has led to any deaths? Please cite some evidence instead of unsupported assertions.

---

You just cant be this stupid.

No one with a college degree can be this stupid.

---

Oh, but they can.

Carlos Safety said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Stay strong my friend. Have a fine bottle of wine with the Mrs. on the back porch and enjoy a fine cigar. Distance yourself from the rest of the lepers connected to civilization. This too, shall pass.

---

Unless Remdesivir is somehow mass produced and distributed throughout the country within the next 90 days ....the view from your porch is going to be reminiscent of the 1918 pandemic .

Best estimates now ( without a vaccine or widely available treatment ) are a total of 400,000 to 500,000 dead by March 1, 2021.

And like the 1918 pandemic for every person who dies...at least two survivors suffer long lasting or even permanent damage .

BTW been to a leper colony; was about 15 years ago .

C-19 is far more contagious than leprosy .

---

Probably not. Initial projections were 400,000 dead in Dallas county before now. Well, that never happened and it wont.

---

Interesting; never saw any such projection involving Dallas County . Could you please supply your source ?

We are in a race to produce and distribute Remdesivir ( and other new treatments ) before our hospitals get over run .

Hope the race is won and you can mock these latest estimates from the CDC.

---

The Dallas county health department is my source. They had a nice little chart they put up to justify their foray into fascism.

---

Dallas County resident here. This is true. I don't recall the exact projection for fatalities, but it was a very big number.

LTbear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

They have been saying for 8 months now that hospitals are fixing to be full

---

In Colorado we are seeing our hospitals fill up rapidly .

ICU usage up dramatically.

Record amount of new infections in the last 24 hours .

And it's only mid November .

---

Yea and you also told us opening up stadiums and sporting venues would be a disaster. How did that prediction turn out for you chicken little?

---

Are you kidding ? Good God look around.

Sporting events in the middle of a pandemic remains one of the stupidest behaviors imaginable .

---

What evidence do you have that it has led to any deaths? Please cite some evidence instead of unsupported assertions.

---

You just cant be this stupid.

No one with a college degree can be this stupid.

---

Oh, but they can.

---

Should not have posted that .

I apologize .

But to demand resources be applied to study such a specific activity in order to 'prove' they are stupid/ dangerous is completely unrealistic .

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

DAC said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Colorado just saw over 6400 cases of covid in the last 24 hours .

All time record number .

Time to get real and forget about politics. Hospitals will be getting swamped within 2 weeks tops.

Obviously cloth and paper masks are not the answer.

If you don't have an N95 mask be completely focused on social distancing.

---

They have been saying for 8 months now that hospitals are fixing to be full

---

In Colorado we are seeing our hospitals fill up rapidly .

ICU usage up dramatically.

Record amount of new infections in the last 24 hours .

And it's only mid November .

---

Yea and you also told us opening up stadiums and sporting venues would be a disaster. How did that prediction turn out for you chicken little?

---

Are you kidding ? Good God look around.

Sporting events in the middle of a pandemic remains one of the stupidest behaviors imaginable .

---

What evidence do you have that it has led to any deaths? Please cite some evidence instead of unsupported assertions.

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You just cant be this stupid.

No one with a college degree can be this stupid.

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I'm a lawyer. I need data and evidence, not unsupported statements. What you've said is not self evident.

Mothra said:

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Canada2017 said:

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J.R. said:

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Mothra said:

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J.R. said:

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For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

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No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

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I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

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It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

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See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

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It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

Mothra said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Nice way of saying there is no number of deaths that would alter your mindset .


BTW even half of a percent death rate would result in over a million deaths .

That is not acceptable to me .

Not if common sense for only 90 more days could save hundreds of thousands of lives with vaccines and treatments on route .

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I am fine with precautions. Shutting down life? It hasn't worked Canada. It didn't work in Europe. It hasn't worked in California. Instead it's led to a second wave. Europe is worse than us right now.

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Read the models (the accurate ones, not the outlier model that Carlos is hyping).

Canada2017 said:

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Mothra said:

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Canada2017 said:

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J.R. said:

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Mothra said:

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J.R. said:

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For all you deniers, I sure hope people around you don't start dying. i'v lost 4 and counting. One of my BU fraternity brothers is currently in the hospital and going down fast in Houston. It's real, folks. Everybody, can do what they want, but I chose to do my part based on the best science we have.

---

No on this thread has suggested anything other than reasonable proposals. But lockdowns for 90 days is not the answer and will lead to more deaths and misery. Some of us need to pay our mortgage and health insurance. As the father of a special. Reds child, I can't afford to be out of work.

I have friends who have lost parents and grandparents and a dad who lost his best friend. It's the reason we are not spending thanksgiving with him. Isolation and lockdowns forever however are not the answer.

---

I'm not saying a lockdown is the answer, hell I'm not smart enough to know the answer. It is a real tricky balance between virus mitigation and not completely tanking the economy. We all can't afford not to have income to support our families and ourselves. My businesses have suffered greatly during the last 8 months. One of my businesses is multifamily real estate. Depending on the property, I have many, many tenants that work retail, and or the service industry which have been decimated. We have been working with them on rents, ect., but that can't continue much longer. Unfortunately , my lenders expect their money. It's a hell of a pickle! It all just sucks.

---

It has affected my tenants as well.

But money can be replaced...lives cannot .

---

See this is my problem with your position. You'll be fine financially regardless. It's not the sacrifice for you it is for others.

Stay in your basement if you want. Don't ask the rest of us to have our families ruined.

---

It has already cost me at least $ 200,000 one way or another .

But again, we are talking only 3 months .

We are fortunate the scientific community is going to save us from our own shortsightedness .

3 months of financial suffering or death for additional thousands ?

Good grief you are an attorney and cant ride out 3 months ?

My legal leg breaker could ride out 3 years and still order top shelf .

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So just three months? How does that work exactly. My law firm and all their clients' businesses shut down for three months and then magically restart where we left off? You think that's how this will work?

Come on man. You're smarter than that. Millions of businesses will go under and I won't have a job in 90 days.

Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Nice way of saying there is no number of deaths that would alter your mindset .

BTW even half of a percent death rate would result in over a million deaths .

That is not acceptable to me .

Not if common sense for only 90 more days could save hundreds of thousands of lives with vaccines and treatments on route .

---

I am fine with precautions. Shutting down life? It hasn't worked Canada. It didn't work in Europe. It hasn't worked in California. Instead it's led to a second wave. Europe is worse than us right now.

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Read the models (the accurate ones, not the outlier model that Carlos is hyping).

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Send me a link to the accurate ones and explain why they're accurate.

JCWortsman said:

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rudylaw said:

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Effectiveness of masks would increase severely if, oh I don't know, people actually wore them and wore them correctly. 15 minutes of mask-wearing a day is just too hard for 80% of Americans though. Can't be inconvenienced in the slightest.

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80% of Americans, really? I work in a grocery store and I would say 99% of people are wearing their masks, and at least 80% correctly. Now are they properly removing them, cleaning them, not touching them? Who knows, but I think you're being a little down on society.

I don't think masks hurt the situation at all, but I don't think that masks or social distancing are the magic pill. Even a lockdown isn't going to make this go away. We will hole up for 4-6 weeks and all the sudden cases will spike again.

It will have to run it's course. Those who want to avoid it at all costs can, but there will be costs. Those who want to live life will probably get it, and that may also have its costs. There isn't an answer and to pretend that anyone has one and that we need daddy government to make decisions for us is just wrong.

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Inside stores, sure. I'm talking about walking down crowded sidewalks or other places where keeping 6' of distance is next to impossible. 8 out of every 10 people I see walking in a busy neighborhood have no intention of wearing a mask. Studies have shown that if everyone wore a mask in these few situations, literally 10-20 minutes a day, chances of spread greatly reduce. Those are the facts. So, yeah, sorry if I'm down on society since the great majority of people are either "so over it" or believe wearing a mask infringes on their freedoms or something.

Colder weather means more indoor time, more close contact, more inhalation of recirculated air, and less sunlight. Some recommendations I would make passed on from doctors and epidemiologists that we dealt with for our family with COVID.

Start the COVID vitamin regimen now before you may need it. Your body with throw off the extra supply without sickness, but nothing wrong with augmenting your dietary intake and have it "ready for battle". The key elements are B6, B12, C, D3, Zinc, and Lysine. BTW, these also help the body in dealing with other illnesses. If you feel your healthy diet covers your need, then just be focused on keeping that going, or augment where necessary.

I know it's getting colder, but keep windows open as much as possible. It's critical to air circulation and dilution, especially if you're living with someone who has it.

Hygiene. This goes beyond hand sanitizer. Our bodies are electro static magnets that attract all sorts of air born particles to our hair and skin. It's easy to fall into less frequent showers or lower hygiene during a lockdown, working from home, and less social activity in general, but don't do it. Be diligent in cleaning exposed skin. Hand to face/nose transmission is a huge factor. Other, brushing teeth and mouthwash has some impact on viral exhalation.

Consider using a PVP-I nasal spray, such as Nasacort as a preventative measure. The nose is the primary entry point, so the more we can protect our body from further entry, and/or lower the viral load the better.

Be safe this Winter, and I hope we come out of this soon.