FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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Truman is one of better presidents of the 20th century. Arguably, he was better than FDR who Leftists practically worship.

---

Rare to disagree with you involving history.

However this is one of those times.

Truman was a mediocrity who enjoyed the patronage of the Kansas City mafia . Without that patronage Truman would have never been elected to the senate.

As president, Truman accomplished very little.

---

I disagree here, he made some of the tougher decisions in US History.

The obvious one - the Bomb
Desegregated the Military
Responded to Soviet Blockade of Berlin
Responded to Invasions of S Korea
Recognized Israel 11 minutes after created



As for KC Mob, which President doesn't get where he is without backing?

---

By the time Truman left office he had the lowest approval rating ever.

There was a reason for it.

His domestic policies were failures.

Other than dropping the Bomb ( developed by FDR's administration ) his foreign policies were failures.

To brush off Truman's MAFIA overlords is ridiculous. Other than Kennedy no US president has been so obligated to such a criminal element.

The man was a caustic, obnoxious mediocrity who left many problems for Eisenhower to solve.

Compared to Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy , Nixon, Reagan , Clinton, And Obama; Truman remains a blip on the historical record.

For all practical purposes; forgotten.

And justifiably so.

---

I disagree. Truman had a successful 2 terms and set the policies that eventually brought down Russia without a world war.
If you like polls, Truman's average approval % was higher than Trump's

---

He made tough decisions that had been punted for years, in terms of desegregation of military 80 years. He established civilian control over the Military, the Marshall Plan, etc... He impacted the future more than almost any modern President I can think of.

---

Good grief every president makes 'tough decisions'.

It's a ridiculous assumption that Truman established 'civilian control of the military '. Even Lincoln had control of the military a century earlier.

Truman's approval ratings the day he left office say it all.
He was so unpopular a Republican was his successor in the White House.

---

Well, the little Caesar named Macarther took him on, he pretty much handled it better than Trump handled his Generals.

I am surprised you are so in to popularity, you make the tough choices and you are not going to be popular. That is why they are tough choices. If he was worried about popular, he would have done a poll.

But, you know as with other things we don't have to agree. You can keep touting how great Obama was, it is your right.

---

Dumb comments all way round .

---

F off...

---

Dude you seriously need to find some educational endeavors to eat up all your empty hours.

And hopefully fill up the huge empty space between your ears in the process.

---

I can have a discussion without insulting, calling dumb or any other verbal tantrum you throw. If someone disagrees they are dumb, cowards, or any other insult you throw.

You are not worth it. Enjoy your version of all history and what is right or wrong. Snuggle up with that CIB of you really have one and tell yourself how right you are. I am done with you.

---

From National Review:
A majority of voters correctly say they believe spending is too high, but then when asked what they'd like to see cut, they say foreign aid and that's it. As I noted when such a poll was published in March, majorities actually say spending on Medicare and Social Security, our two largest budget-busters, should be higher while simultaneously saying that overall government spending should be lower. Public opinion on this topic is incoherent and often mathematically impossible to enact.

Unfortunately this is correct. The government entitlement programs were always flawed and never seriously reformed. Instead they grew, mushroomed really, creating more unsustainable burdens and accelerating the eventual collapse. The Social Security Ponzi scheme might be the first to go. These uncomfortable facts lend credence to conspiracy theories about modern disciples of Saul Alinsky (like the Clinton's & Obama's) or maybe the Cloward-Pivin variety. These are scary prospects which I hope are untrue.

FOX: A majority of Americans disapprove of Biden's job performance — including a majority of men, Hispanics, people with college degrees, and literally anyone under the age of 45 pic.twitter.com/0tmxZjK1ue

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) November 16, 2023

https://babylonbee.com/news/after-five-minutes-with-biden-xi-gives-order-to-invade-taiwan

After Five Minutes With Biden, Xi Gives Order To Invade Taiwan
SAN FRANCISCO, CA After spending five minutes in the room with President Biden, President Xi Jinping made the call to go ahead and invade Taiwan.
"This has been very enlightening, now if you'll excuse me for a moment," said President Xi, stepping out of the room. "Oh man, that was so hard to keep a straight face! Woo. Okay, someone get me the army chief, it's a green light all the way."
According to sources, the meeting started off with President Biden offering to show President Xi how to use a fork. "Can you say 'fork'? We use these for eating here in America," explained Biden. "You'll find it so much easier eating your delicious General Tso's chicken with a fork than with those little sticks. Speaking of, would you like to hear me play 'Chopsticks' on the piano?"
President Xi graciously allowed Biden to play the piano before stepping out to make his call. "Yeah, we're good," said a chuckling President Xi to his Defense Minister. "Nothing to worry about here. Like, nothing. I have to go listen to some racist piano playing - will explain later, happy invasion!"
At publishing time, First Lady Jill Biden had called President Biden to see how his meeting with the "breakfast eggroll" was going.

Why that specific timing?

Because –

Rules adopted by the Democratic National Committee in 2022 leave the DNC as the sole authority to appoint a Presidential nominee where that nominee resigns after the August 2024 convention.

No vote or primary needed. pic.twitter.com/unLkP16k09

— Techno Fog (@Techno_Fog) November 16, 2023

Osodecentx said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

---

Truman is one of better presidents of the 20th century. Arguably, he was better than FDR who Leftists practically worship.

---

Rare to disagree with you involving history.

However this is one of those times.

Truman was a mediocrity who enjoyed the patronage of the Kansas City mafia . Without that patronage Truman would have never been elected to the senate.

As president, Truman accomplished very little.

---

I disagree here, he made some of the tougher decisions in US History.

The obvious one - the Bomb
Desegregated the Military
Responded to Soviet Blockade of Berlin
Responded to Invasions of S Korea
Recognized Israel 11 minutes after created



As for KC Mob, which President doesn't get where he is without backing?

---

By the time Truman left office he had the lowest approval rating ever.

There was a reason for it.

His domestic policies were failures.

Other than dropping the Bomb ( developed by FDR's administration ) his foreign policies were failures.

To brush off Truman's MAFIA overlords is ridiculous. Other than Kennedy no US president has been so obligated to such a criminal element.

The man was a caustic, obnoxious mediocrity who left many problems for Eisenhower to solve.

Compared to Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy , Nixon, Reagan , Clinton, And Obama; Truman remains a blip on the historical record.

For all practical purposes; forgotten.

And justifiably so.

---

I disagree. Truman had a successful 2 terms and set the policies that eventually brought down Russia without a world war.
If you like polls, Truman's average approval % was higher than Trump's

---

He made tough decisions that had been punted for years, in terms of desegregation of military 80 years. He established civilian control over the Military, the Marshall Plan, etc... He impacted the future more than almost any modern President I can think of.

---

Good grief every president makes 'tough decisions'.

It's a ridiculous assumption that Truman established 'civilian control of the military '. Even Lincoln had control of the military a century earlier.

Truman's approval ratings the day he left office say it all.
He was so unpopular a Republican was his successor in the White House.

---

Well, the little Caesar named Macarther took him on, he pretty much handled it better than Trump handled his Generals.

I am surprised you are so in to popularity, you make the tough choices and you are not going to be popular. That is why they are tough choices. If he was worried about popular, he would have done a poll.

But, you know as with other things we don't have to agree. You can keep touting how great Obama was, it is your right.

---

Dumb comments all way round .

---

F off...

---

Dude you seriously need to find some educational endeavors to eat up all your empty hours.

And hopefully fill up the huge empty space between your ears in the process.

---

I can have a discussion without insulting, calling dumb or any other verbal tantrum you throw. If someone disagrees they are dumb, cowards, or any other insult you throw.

You are not worth it. Enjoy your version of all history and what is right or wrong. Snuggle up with that CIB of you really have one and tell yourself how right you are. I am done with you.

---

From National Review:
A majority of voters correctly say they believe spending is too high, but then when asked what they'd like to see cut, they say foreign aid and that's it. As I noted when such a poll was published in March, majorities actually say spending on Medicare and Social Security, our two largest budget-busters, should be higher while simultaneously saying that overall government spending should be lower. Public opinion on this topic is incoherent and often mathematically impossible to enact.

---

Part of the problem there, is that both major parties hide the actual spending from the public as much as possible.

For example, almost everyone approves of high teacher pay, but actual school districts often have more administrators than teachers, and pay them more, yet administrators often have vague job descriptions and limited actual contact with students. That is, school districts raise taxes on the promise to raise teacher pay, but the money goes to administrators instead, and there is no way to challenge the allocation.

Same thing for Defense spending. Everyone agrees we need a strong national defense, but we also hear of boondoggle programs that are someone's pet project and billions are wasted there for no good effect.

Or we could just look at the aid given to Ukraine. No has detailed exactly what all those billions are meant to buy, and who handled that money. The potential for graft there is very great and should offend every taxpayer.

My point is that just demanding details from Congress would be a solid first step towards reform, regardless of what would be cut.

The Dems are more comfortable with totalitarianism so that makes sense….

Oldbear83 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

Truman is one of better presidents of the 20th century. Arguably, he was better than FDR who Leftists practically worship.

---

Rare to disagree with you involving history.

However this is one of those times.

Truman was a mediocrity who enjoyed the patronage of the Kansas City mafia . Without that patronage Truman would have never been elected to the senate.

As president, Truman accomplished very little.

---

I disagree here, he made some of the tougher decisions in US History.

The obvious one - the Bomb
Desegregated the Military
Responded to Soviet Blockade of Berlin
Responded to Invasions of S Korea
Recognized Israel 11 minutes after created



As for KC Mob, which President doesn't get where he is without backing?

---

By the time Truman left office he had the lowest approval rating ever.

There was a reason for it.

His domestic policies were failures.

Other than dropping the Bomb ( developed by FDR's administration ) his foreign policies were failures.

To brush off Truman's MAFIA overlords is ridiculous. Other than Kennedy no US president has been so obligated to such a criminal element.

The man was a caustic, obnoxious mediocrity who left many problems for Eisenhower to solve.

Compared to Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy , Nixon, Reagan , Clinton, And Obama; Truman remains a blip on the historical record.

For all practical purposes; forgotten.

And justifiably so.

---

I disagree. Truman had a successful 2 terms and set the policies that eventually brought down Russia without a world war.
If you like polls, Truman's average approval % was higher than Trump's

---

He made tough decisions that had been punted for years, in terms of desegregation of military 80 years. He established civilian control over the Military, the Marshall Plan, etc... He impacted the future more than almost any modern President I can think of.

---

Good grief every president makes 'tough decisions'.

It's a ridiculous assumption that Truman established 'civilian control of the military '. Even Lincoln had control of the military a century earlier.

Truman's approval ratings the day he left office say it all.
He was so unpopular a Republican was his successor in the White House.

---

Well, the little Caesar named Macarther took him on, he pretty much handled it better than Trump handled his Generals.

I am surprised you are so in to popularity, you make the tough choices and you are not going to be popular. That is why they are tough choices. If he was worried about popular, he would have done a poll.

But, you know as with other things we don't have to agree. You can keep touting how great Obama was, it is your right.

---

Dumb comments all way round .

---

F off...

---

Dude you seriously need to find some educational endeavors to eat up all your empty hours.

And hopefully fill up the huge empty space between your ears in the process.

---

I can have a discussion without insulting, calling dumb or any other verbal tantrum you throw. If someone disagrees they are dumb, cowards, or any other insult you throw.

You are not worth it. Enjoy your version of all history and what is right or wrong. Snuggle up with that CIB of you really have one and tell yourself how right you are. I am done with you.

---

From National Review:
A majority of voters correctly say they believe spending is too high, but then when asked what they'd like to see cut, they say foreign aid and that's it. As I noted when such a poll was published in March, majorities actually say spending on Medicare and Social Security, our two largest budget-busters, should be higher while simultaneously saying that overall government spending should be lower. Public opinion on this topic is incoherent and often mathematically impossible to enact.

---

Part of the problem there, is that both major parties hide the actual spending from the public as much as possible.

For example, almost everyone approves of high teacher pay, but actual school districts often have more administrators than teachers, and pay them more, yet administrators often have vague job descriptions and limited actual contact with students. That is, school districts raise taxes on the promise to raise teacher pay, but the money goes to administrators instead, and there is no way to challenge the allocation.

Same thing for Defense spending. Everyone agrees we need a strong national defense, but we also hear of boondoggle programs that are someone's pet project and billions are wasted there for no good effect.

Or we could just look at the aid given to Ukraine. No has detailed exactly what all those billions are meant to buy, and who handled that money. The potential for graft there is very great and should offend every taxpayer.

My point is that just demanding details from Congress would be a solid first step towards reform, regardless of what would be cut.

---

I huge amount of the federal government is essentially a giant money laundering scam. That's one reason no one in Washington is concerned with the insane size of our national debt or how quickly it is growing. It's also why they create new government agencies but never get rid of old ones that clearly don't work. I suspect it helps to explain why some members leave Congress as millionaires.

Yes, I'm very cynical about our politicians!

BREAKING: The Special Counsel investigating Biden's classified documents from his time as VP that were found at his house and office are not expected to charge anyone.

They will apparently "be critical of Biden and his staff for the way they handled sensitive materials" but… pic.twitter.com/65vnxLfG1y

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 16, 2023

Joe Biden's DOJ investigated Joe Biden and found that Joe Biden had done nothing wrong by taking classified material and storing it in his office and garage floor. https://t.co/6VsDxDw3gO

— Stephen L. Miller (@redsteeze) November 16, 2023

Biden, late to his own meeting, shows off his VIGOR by half-jogging into the room as every other leader waits on his arrival pic.twitter.com/M8qSfJhRDW

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) November 16, 2023

Cobretti said:

---

BREAKING: The Special Counsel investigating Biden's classified documents from his time as VP that were found at his house and office are not expected to charge anyone.

They will apparently "be critical of Biden and his staff for the way they handled sensitive materials" but… pic.twitter.com/65vnxLfG1y

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 16, 2023

---

sounds like something we heard before..

BOOOOOOOM!!! NOBODY LIKES BIDEN!!!😂😂😂 pic.twitter.com/bGS5XLKCyk

— il Donaldo Trumpo (@PapiTrumpo) November 15, 2023

Cobretti said:

---

BREAKING: The Special Counsel investigating Biden's classified documents from his time as VP that were found at his house and office are not expected to charge anyone.

They will apparently "be critical of Biden and his staff for the way they handled sensitive materials" but… pic.twitter.com/65vnxLfG1y

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 16, 2023

Joe Biden's DOJ investigated Joe Biden and found that Joe Biden had done nothing wrong by taking classified material and storing it in his office and garage floor. https://t.co/6VsDxDw3gO

— Stephen L. Miller (@redsteeze) November 16, 2023

---

What a crock! If what Biden did as VP was "nothing wrong" then why are they prosecuting Trump for what he did with documents as president? The president has the authority to declassify documents, the VP doesn't. Also, Biden had more documents in more places and stored less securely, even haphazardly. Clearly a double standard.

4th and Inches said:

---

Cobretti said:

---

BREAKING: The Special Counsel investigating Biden's classified documents from his time as VP that were found at his house and office are not expected to charge anyone.

They will apparently "be critical of Biden and his staff for the way they handled sensitive materials" but… pic.twitter.com/65vnxLfG1y

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 16, 2023

---

sounds like something we heard before..

---

I'm just glad he took the time to change his poopy diaper!

historian said:

---

Cobretti said:

---

BREAKING: The Special Counsel investigating Biden's classified documents from his time as VP that were found at his house and office are not expected to charge anyone.

They will apparently "be critical of Biden and his staff for the way they handled sensitive materials" but… pic.twitter.com/65vnxLfG1y

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 16, 2023

Joe Biden's DOJ investigated Joe Biden and found that Joe Biden had done nothing wrong by taking classified material and storing it in his office and garage floor. https://t.co/6VsDxDw3gO

— Stephen L. Miller (@redsteeze) November 16, 2023

---

What a crock! If what Biden did as VP was "nothing wrong" then why are they prosecuting Trump for what he did with documents as president? The president has the authority to declassify documents, the VP doesn't. Also, Biden had more documents in more places and stored less securely, even haphazardly. Clearly a double standard.

---

This is the reason I will hold my nose and vote for Trump a third time if he turns out to be the Republican nominee. This crap has got to stop.

🚨🚨 Our investigation has revealed key facts that contradict the White House’s and President Biden’s personal attorney’s narrative about the discovery of classified documents found at Penn Biden Center.

▪️ The timeline begins in early 2021, not in November 2022 as alleged by…

— Oversight Committee (@GOPoversight) November 16, 2023

Quote:

---

Our investigation has revealed key facts that contradict the White House's and President Biden's personal attorney's narrative about the discovery of classified documents found at Penn Biden Center.

The timeline begins in early 2021, not in November 2022 as alleged by the Biden team.

The classified documents were kept in unsecured locations.

President Biden used significant federal resources, including five White House employees and a Department of Defense employee, to access and secure items at the Penn Biden Center.

Additionally, Special Counsel Hur has denied providing information to our committee about whether any of the classified documents mishandled by President Biden involved countries or individuals that had financial dealings with Biden family members or their related companies.

This case is not closed. @RepJamesComer has issued a subpoena and requested multiple transcribed interviews with current and former White House staff involved in this scandal.

Accountability is here.

---

Blinken knows the camera is on him. He's showing off. The message is: "I'm super important but don't blame me for the global s**tshow". He was slightly less bold on the plane from Israel. pic.twitter.com/onUboIZvFV

— Miranda Devine (@mirandadevine) November 16, 2023

historian said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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That's probably true of most historians but that's because they are mostly Leftists that think the government is always the hero despite the abundance of evidence to the contrary. They are ideologues. Some even think FDR is the greatest president we've ever had because they give him credit for ending the Depression (he didn't; the New Deal made it worse). That may be true of lay people because they pay attention to the historians because they are the "experts" & they don't know better.

Most historians recognize that Lincoln was best for all kinds of obvious reasons.

---

Interesting

I am politically a little to the right of Attila the Hun yet would easily rate FDR as one of the greatest presidents and certainly better than Lincoln.

Whose constant interference with military strategy possibly extended the war by another year. Add in his suspension of habeas corpus and a host of other issues; it is safe to say only Sherman's timely occupation of Atlanta made Lincoln's re election possible.

Then an even more timely martyr's death cemented Lincoln's legacy.

---

Lincoln has his share of conservative critics, with books written on the subject. Suspension of habeus corpus was necessary under the circumstances and completely constitutional. The constitution explicitly authorizes it under this circumstance: rebellion.

As for the war, Lincoln had clear military objectives and made sure his commanders followed through, removing them when they failed. I think he had some grasp or intuition of the immensity of the conflict and that the Civil War was different than previous wars. It was total war, a model for the two world wars.

I like Lincoln above all others because he made many tough decisions, had the courage to do the difficult things (emancipation, aggressively win the war, etc), had the political skill to do the difficult things & manage the administration (including a cabinet that was sometimes unruly), and rare leadership traits one doesn't often see, especially some humility.

---

We will just have to agree to disagree about Lincoln.

He was extremely unpopular even in the North due to the horrendous yankee casualty figures, the draft ( where rich men could hire their own 'replacements' , the temporary suppression of personal freedoms and his Emancipation Proclamation.

But Lincoln finally won his war and was martyred at the perfect time .

At the conclusion of the bloodiest war in US history yet before the hypocrisy and political infighting involving Reconstruction.

Cobretti said:

---

FOX: A majority of Americans disapprove of Biden's job performance — including a majority of men, Hispanics, people with college degrees, and literally anyone under the age of 45 pic.twitter.com/0tmxZjK1ue

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) November 16, 2023

---

Somewhat ironically it's probably for different reasons. Ie conservative voters hate him because his agenda has largely been left and liberal voters hate him because he's not left enough.

Apply the same logic to these polls. It's not everyone agreeing. It's both side disagreeing.

Yes, Lincoln was very unpopular in the north and yet he managed to win re-election comfortably. This was largely aided by Gen. William T. Sherman's March to the Sea. Still, his policies were largely successful: he won the war, freed the slaves, and had a reasonable plan for Reconstruction that had a chance to succeed. Then he was assassinated and replaced by Andrew Johnson, another terrible leader who ordinarily never would have been there.

When grading Presidents, subjective opinion always shows up, even and sometimes especially by academics.

Time also changes the opinion of Presidents.

historian said:

---

Yes, Lincoln was very unpopular in the north and yet he managed to win re-election comfortably. This was largely aided by Gen. William T. Sherman's March to the Sea. Still, his policies were largely successful: he won the war, freed the slaves, and had a reasonable plan for Reconstruction that had a chance to succeed. Then he was assassinated and replaced by Andrew Johnson, another terrible leader who ordinarily never would have been there.

---

Read Sherman's biography years ago.

Sherman openly admitted it was a good thing the North won the way or he could have been tried as a war criminal .

Biden reads his toast at the APEC dinner last night directly from his pre-written note cards — barely looking up pic.twitter.com/jncY6In3HS

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) November 17, 2023

FOX POLL: 78% of Americans view the economy negatively — and 67% say the worst is not yet over.

"Republicans are seen as better able to handle top voter concerns, such as inflation, and safety-related issues, like crime, national security, and terrorism." pic.twitter.com/2kK2m9GhJa

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) November 17, 2023

Oldbear83 said:

---

When grading Presidents, subjective opinion always shows up, even and sometimes especially by academics.

Time also changes the opinion of Presidents.

---

Yes, that is correct

The Civil War was the first real example of what we called total war. The two world wars are the best examples of that idea but the US Civil War was a precursor.

historian said:

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The Civil War was the first real example of what we called total war. The two world wars are the best examples of that idea but the US Civil War was a precursor.

---

True

Osodecentx said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

---

Truman is one of better presidents of the 20th century. Arguably, he was better than FDR who Leftists practically worship.

---

Rare to disagree with you involving history.

However this is one of those times.

Truman was a mediocrity who enjoyed the patronage of the Kansas City mafia . Without that patronage Truman would have never been elected to the senate.

As president, Truman accomplished very little.

---

I disagree here, he made some of the tougher decisions in US History.

The obvious one - the Bomb
Desegregated the Military
Responded to Soviet Blockade of Berlin
Responded to Invasions of S Korea
Recognized Israel 11 minutes after created



As for KC Mob, which President doesn't get where he is without backing?

---

By the time Truman left office he had the lowest approval rating ever.

There was a reason for it.

His domestic policies were failures.

Other than dropping the Bomb ( developed by FDR's administration ) his foreign policies were failures.

To brush off Truman's MAFIA overlords is ridiculous. Other than Kennedy no US president has been so obligated to such a criminal element.

The man was a caustic, obnoxious mediocrity who left many problems for Eisenhower to solve.

Compared to Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy , Nixon, Reagan , Clinton, And Obama; Truman remains a blip on the historical record.

For all practical purposes; forgotten.

And justifiably so.

---

I disagree. Truman had a successful 2 terms and set the policies that eventually brought down Russia without a world war.
If you like polls, Truman's average approval % was higher than Trump's

---

He made tough decisions that had been punted for years, in terms of desegregation of military 80 years. He established civilian control over the Military, the Marshall Plan, etc... He impacted the future more than almost any modern President I can think of.

---

Good grief every president makes 'tough decisions'.

It's a ridiculous assumption that Truman established 'civilian control of the military '. Even Lincoln had control of the military a century earlier.

Truman's approval ratings the day he left office say it all.
He was so unpopular a Republican was his successor in the White House.

---

Well, the little Caesar named Macarther took him on, he pretty much handled it better than Trump handled his Generals.

I am surprised you are so in to popularity, you make the tough choices and you are not going to be popular. That is why they are tough choices. If he was worried about popular, he would have done a poll.

But, you know as with other things we don't have to agree. You can keep touting how great Obama was, it is your right.

---

Dumb comments all way round .

---

F off...

---

Don't do that
The guy is ignorant

---

You are right I put him on ignore. Caught me at a bad time.

Oldbear83 said:

---

When grading Presidents, subjective opinion always shows up, even and sometimes especially by academics.

Time also changes the opinion of Presidents.

---

So true.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

historian said:

---

Cobretti said:

---

BREAKING: The Special Counsel investigating Biden's classified documents from his time as VP that were found at his house and office are not expected to charge anyone.

They will apparently "be critical of Biden and his staff for the way they handled sensitive materials" but… pic.twitter.com/65vnxLfG1y

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 16, 2023

Joe Biden's DOJ investigated Joe Biden and found that Joe Biden had done nothing wrong by taking classified material and storing it in his office and garage floor. https://t.co/6VsDxDw3gO

— Stephen L. Miller (@redsteeze) November 16, 2023

---

What a crock! If what Biden did as VP was "nothing wrong" then why are they prosecuting Trump for what he did with documents as president? The president has the authority to declassify documents, the VP doesn't. Also, Biden had more documents in more places and stored less securely, even haphazardly. Clearly a double standard.

---

This is the reason I will hold my nose and vote for Trump a third time if he turns out to be the Republican nominee. This crap has got to stop.

---

If I am forced, I too will vote Trump for the third time. While the question is still open, I will do everything I can to get a new candidate.

FLBear5630 said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

historian said:

---

Cobretti said:

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BREAKING: The Special Counsel investigating Biden's classified documents from his time as VP that were found at his house and office are not expected to charge anyone.

They will apparently "be critical of Biden and his staff for the way they handled sensitive materials" but… pic.twitter.com/65vnxLfG1y

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 16, 2023

Joe Biden's DOJ investigated Joe Biden and found that Joe Biden had done nothing wrong by taking classified material and storing it in his office and garage floor. https://t.co/6VsDxDw3gO

— Stephen L. Miller (@redsteeze) November 16, 2023

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What a crock! If what Biden did as VP was "nothing wrong" then why are they prosecuting Trump for what he did with documents as president? The president has the authority to declassify documents, the VP doesn't. Also, Biden had more documents in more places and stored less securely, even haphazardly. Clearly a double standard.

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This is the reason I will hold my nose and vote for Trump a third time if he turns out to be the Republican nominee. This crap has got to stop.

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If I am forced, I too will vote Trump for the third time. While the question is still open, I will do everything I can to get a new candidate.

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That is the sound strategy.

Don't forget that for all the noise, not even one primary has taken place, the whole primary season is still ahead of us.

Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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historian said:

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Cobretti said:

---

BREAKING: The Special Counsel investigating Biden's classified documents from his time as VP that were found at his house and office are not expected to charge anyone.

They will apparently "be critical of Biden and his staff for the way they handled sensitive materials" but… pic.twitter.com/65vnxLfG1y

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 16, 2023

Joe Biden's DOJ investigated Joe Biden and found that Joe Biden had done nothing wrong by taking classified material and storing it in his office and garage floor. https://t.co/6VsDxDw3gO

— Stephen L. Miller (@redsteeze) November 16, 2023

---

What a crock! If what Biden did as VP was "nothing wrong" then why are they prosecuting Trump for what he did with documents as president? The president has the authority to declassify documents, the VP doesn't. Also, Biden had more documents in more places and stored less securely, even haphazardly. Clearly a double standard.

---

This is the reason I will hold my nose and vote for Trump a third time if he turns out to be the Republican nominee. This crap has got to stop.

---

If I am forced, I too will vote Trump for the third time. While the question is still open, I will do everything I can to get a new candidate.

---

That is the sound strategy.

Don't forget that for all the noise, not even one primary has taken place, the whole primary season is still ahead of us.

---

We are channeling the same maestro. Not one vote has been cast, yet Trump and his followers want us to declare a winner.

What's with Biden's creepy wink? pic.twitter.com/LdAxCwlOs4

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) November 17, 2023

FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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historian said:

---

Cobretti said:

---

BREAKING: The Special Counsel investigating Biden's classified documents from his time as VP that were found at his house and office are not expected to charge anyone.

They will apparently "be critical of Biden and his staff for the way they handled sensitive materials" but… pic.twitter.com/65vnxLfG1y

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 16, 2023

Joe Biden's DOJ investigated Joe Biden and found that Joe Biden had done nothing wrong by taking classified material and storing it in his office and garage floor. https://t.co/6VsDxDw3gO

— Stephen L. Miller (@redsteeze) November 16, 2023

---

What a crock! If what Biden did as VP was "nothing wrong" then why are they prosecuting Trump for what he did with documents as president? The president has the authority to declassify documents, the VP doesn't. Also, Biden had more documents in more places and stored less securely, even haphazardly. Clearly a double standard.

---

This is the reason I will hold my nose and vote for Trump a third time if he turns out to be the Republican nominee. This crap has got to stop.

---

If I am forced, I too will vote Trump for the third time. While the question is still open, I will do everything I can to get a new candidate.

---

That is the sound strategy.

Don't forget that for all the noise, not even one primary has taken place, the whole primary season is still ahead of us.

---

We are channeling the same maestro. Not one vote has been cast, yet Trump and his followers want us to declare a winner.

---

I actually don't blame Trump for that tactic, the front-runner always wants his/her primary opponents to drop out early, to save money for the General Campaign.

The time between now and Super Tuesday is when the candidates polling below 10% have to weigh their chances against their costs. Trump knows that and is putting pressure on them to quit now and save him money.

What we are also seeing now, is candidates learn - often the hard way - what works and what doesn't with voters. Vivek and Nikki and Ron are learning those facts with some pain, but if they do learn, they can craft a winning image before the real voting starts.

Still hoping Ron finds his stride soon.

Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

historian said:

---

Cobretti said:

---

BREAKING: The Special Counsel investigating Biden's classified documents from his time as VP that were found at his house and office are not expected to charge anyone.

They will apparently "be critical of Biden and his staff for the way they handled sensitive materials" but… pic.twitter.com/65vnxLfG1y

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 16, 2023

Joe Biden's DOJ investigated Joe Biden and found that Joe Biden had done nothing wrong by taking classified material and storing it in his office and garage floor. https://t.co/6VsDxDw3gO

— Stephen L. Miller (@redsteeze) November 16, 2023

---

What a crock! If what Biden did as VP was "nothing wrong" then why are they prosecuting Trump for what he did with documents as president? The president has the authority to declassify documents, the VP doesn't. Also, Biden had more documents in more places and stored less securely, even haphazardly. Clearly a double standard.

---

This is the reason I will hold my nose and vote for Trump a third time if he turns out to be the Republican nominee. This crap has got to stop.

---

If I am forced, I too will vote Trump for the third time. While the question is still open, I will do everything I can to get a new candidate.

---

That is the sound strategy.

Don't forget that for all the noise, not even one primary has taken place, the whole primary season is still ahead of us.

---

We are channeling the same maestro. Not one vote has been cast, yet Trump and his followers want us to declare a winner.

---

I actually don't blame Trump for that tactic, the front-runner always wants his/her primary opponents to drop out early, to save money for the General Campaign.

The time between now and Super Tuesday is when the candidates polling below 10% have to weigh their chances against their costs. Trump knows that and is putting pressure on them to quit now and save him money.

What we are also seeing now, is candidates learn - often the hard way - what works and what doesn't with voters. Vivek and Nikki and Ron are learning those facts with some pain, but if they do learn, they can craft a winning image before the real voting starts.

Still hoping Ron finds his stride soon.

---

I agree, it is not on Trump. That is good strategy, it is on us to not force him to defend his candidacy. We have gotten lazy as a Nation. The one question that I thought needs to be asked is who do you trust to be President? Who will put the US interests first, ahead of their own. I believed Eisenhower, Reagan, Carter (just not competent.) Bush, and even W (my regard for him is growing over time). To me that is leadership and someone worth following. In this race, of who is left:

1 - DeSantis
2 - Haley
3 - Christie
4 - Trump
5 - Kennedy (Whack job, but his Dad's legacy is strong for putting US first. I respect Bobby, one tough SOB)

Who I don't trust

1 - Vivek
2 - Biden