Social media gives anybody that wants it a massive audience. Loonies are certainly getting more than their share though.Canada2017 said:And social media gives such loonies a massive audience .ShooterTX said:CammoTX said:
Reading through their Facebook content is a tour de force in anti American, anti capitalist doctrine.
Here is just one example: https://www.presbyterianmission.org/story/one-congregations-response-to-american-imperialism/?fbclid=IwAR1TLUAHLzmcYyBV5GbpZmHOis91Bj0HFJFu225UAQ7Ad1Xf3wi_arrHoTk
Wow... that's pretty horrible and messed up stuff.
Jim Jones missed out .
We are both observing the same evidence but are coming to different conclusions. You have faith in yours, and I in mine.TexasScientist said:The world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them. Reality is observed through evidence.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:What is "reality"? You only believe you know what it is. Everything is faith.TexasScientist said:I'm just pointing out the obvious fallacy of all religion. Better to face life grounded in reality.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:How did anyone get to Heaven before Christianity? Works? Don't many Catholics believe you can get there through Purgatory. Not all Christians believe the same. Many believe that belief alone gets you into heaven, following his teaching is not a requirement. There is no 'true' agreed upon Gospel message.Osodecentx said:Like the man said, your sincerity in pursuit of the Gospel message is suspect. Shooter laid out the essentialsTexasScientist said:I don't care to start a new thread or discuss this much further. I'm just pointing out when you drill down into it, there is no agreed upon Gospel message - even what you assert is agreed upon, isn't.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:Is there really a true Gospel message, and if so, what is the true Gospel message? Is it any of the many differing versions of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, or Q, M, L, or Peter, Thomas, Marcion, Basilides, Truth, Mary, Judas, Philip, the Egyptians, the Jewish Christian Gospels, or any of the infancy Gospels? Who gets to make that determination? Catholics, Gnostics, Orthodox believers, Jews, Mormons, Baptists, Anglicans, Christian scholars, objective scholars etc.?ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:Cuba doesn't reject or persecute Catholicism.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:
They're embracing some of the communal ideals of the early Christian church. Back to Christian roots.
I doubt anyone has a problem with the communal ideals part... it's the blatantly Marxist parts that are horrible.
Capitalism isn't evil. America isn't evil. America is NOT an empire.... if it were, then ALL of Mexico would now be part of the USA, as well as Cuba, Panama, the Philippines, etc.
This guy is pretending to pursue Jesus, but he is actually brain-washing a bunch of people into becoming secular communists. Communism and the Bible do not work together, which is why every communist nation started out "tolerating" religion and resulted in rejecting and persecuting Christianity.
This guy is just as dangerous as Jim Jones... remember that Jones also did a lot of missionary work, before he served up the Kool Aid.
Cuba does control Catholicism, and there have been plenty of Catholics who have been arrested or simply disappeared in Cuba after they said things that were forbidden by the Cuban government. Cuba also does this with the small number of other denominations which they allow/regulate.
China also allows "Christianity"... but it also happens to be the only religion in China were the Chinese government has re-written the central text of the religion. The only legal "Bibles" in China are the ones that are published by the CCP... and they are NOT the same as a normal Bible.
The USSR also realized it could not crush religion entirely, so they allowed the Russain Orthodox Church to exist. They made sure that the church preached the values & principles which were approved by the party, and injected communism in every message. I know because I went to Russia right after the wall came down. The people there had never heard the true Gospel message. They were taught that service to the collective was the path to the Kingdom of God.
There is a special place in hell for false teachers... the communists have their own VIP room in that place.
If you really want to discuss this in detail, you should probably start a new thread so we don't hijack this one.
When I said "true Gospel message", I was referring to the agreed upon Gospel message that Jesus is the Son of God who died for the sins of all mankind. All who believe in Him and follow His teaching will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. All who reject Him and his teachings will not enter. Salvation is by the grace of God, through faith in God, and not by works. This was NOT the teaching from the communist approved church, and that was my point.
I somehow suspect that you are not really interested in finding an honest answer to your question, as much as you are interested in trying to "prove" that Christianity and the Bible are false.
So again, if you really want to follow this tangent, I suggest you start a new thread.
Yeah... you really aren't interested in this topic... I can see that clearly.
I just read a few of your older posts...
You don't believe in God, heaven, the Bible... none of it. So your questions are not sincere at all. I would be happy to discuss this topic with someone who genuinely wanted an answer, but that's not you. No answer will ever suffice for you.
So I'll just give you the only answer that you will actually hear... there is no God... it's all a hoax... the Bible isn't real
Now, I believe those statements as much as you actually want an honest answer to your questions... so now we are both engaged in equal levels of sincerity.
Have a nice life.
Wow... i didn't realize it was that bad.Redbrickbear said:
As a denomination they are in bad shape.
In 2018 alone they lost 60,000+ members and 108 churches closed down.
From 4,000,000+ members in 1980 to less than 1,400,000 today....its been basically a non-stop decline.
At their current rate of decline they won't exist in 30 years.
https://juicyecumenism.com/2019/04/29/pcusa-decline/
You beat me to it. I was going to just say there are about 72 of them left and leave it at that.Redbrickbear said:
As a denomination they are in bad shape.
In 2018 alone they lost 60,000+ members and 108 churches closed down.
From 4,000,000+ members in 1980 to less than 1,400,000 today....its been basically a non-stop decline.
At their current rate of decline they won't exist in 30 years.
https://juicyecumenism.com/2019/04/29/pcusa-decline/
Robert Wilson said:You beat me to it. I was going to just say there are about 72 of them left and leave it at that.Redbrickbear said:
As a denomination they are in bad shape.
In 2018 alone they lost 60,000+ members and 108 churches closed down.
From 4,000,000+ members in 1980 to less than 1,400,000 today....its been basically a non-stop decline.
At their current rate of decline they won't exist in 30 years.
https://juicyecumenism.com/2019/04/29/pcusa-decline/
McLennan and Bell Counties combined will outnumber that denomination nationally in short order.
It's a shame there is not a specific religion for the prosperity gospel. I'm guessing it would be on the climb and prove that what the itchy ears want is a big hit.Redbrickbear said:
Looking it up I had not realized how wide spread the collapse is among all the old mainline Protestant churches.
They really have decided to self terminate. Cultural liberalism, woke ideology, and anti-family/anti-natal ideology has destroyed them.
https://juicyecumenism.com/2019/09/25/mainline-protestantism-decline-continues/
Redbrickbear said:
Looking it up I had not realized how wide spread the collapse is among all the old mainline Protestant churches.
They really have decided to self terminate. Cultural liberalism, woke ideology, and anti-family/anti-natal ideology has destroyed them.
https://juicyecumenism.com/2019/09/25/mainline-protestantism-decline-continues/
Or for the Jericho Marchers, at least not yet.LIB,MR BEARS said:It's a shame there is not a specific religion for the prosperity gospel. I'm guessing it would be on the climb and prove that what the itchy ears want is a big hit.Redbrickbear said:
Looking it up I had not realized how wide spread the collapse is among all the old mainline Protestant churches.
They really have decided to self terminate. Cultural liberalism, woke ideology, and anti-family/anti-natal ideology has destroyed them.
https://juicyecumenism.com/2019/09/25/mainline-protestantism-decline-continues/
I'm not familiar with that term, at least away from the story. I'll have to look that one up.Sam Lowry said:Or for the Jericho Marchers, at least not yet.LIB,MR BEARS said:It's a shame there is not a specific religion for the prosperity gospel. I'm guessing it would be on the climb and prove that what the itchy ears want is a big hit.Redbrickbear said:
Looking it up I had not realized how wide spread the collapse is among all the old mainline Protestant churches.
They really have decided to self terminate. Cultural liberalism, woke ideology, and anti-family/anti-natal ideology has destroyed them.
https://juicyecumenism.com/2019/09/25/mainline-protestantism-decline-continues/
Redbrickbear said:
Looking it up I had not realized how wide spread the collapse is among all the old mainline Protestant churches.
They really have decided to self terminate. Cultural liberalism, woke ideology, and anti-family/anti-natal ideology has destroyed them.
https://juicyecumenism.com/2019/09/25/mainline-protestantism-decline-continues/
Personal anecdotes aside, I am not surprised your PCA church in the heart of the Bible Belt is doing well. Many churches do well in the heart of the Bible Belt, especially those who adhere to sound doctrine. Although I don't agree with all of the PCA's beliefs, as between the two groups, it is doing much better than PCUSA due in large part to its resistance to the woke element that has infected PCUSA, which the numbers show is dying.J.R. said:
i'm a member of a PCA church in Dallas, but also attend a PCUSA also. Those 2 churches are on extraordinarily solid foot including both churches in the midst of huge construction additions. I don't find that there is a huge difference in either of the churches practices. I enjoy both equally. Speaking as a recovering Baptist!
One man's true gospel is another man's false gospel. With dubious origins, there is no way to know the original.LIB,MR BEARS said:
No agreed upon gospel is correct. We all know there are false teachers. That does not mean there is not a true gospel.
There doesn't seem to be agreed upon science for global warming, I mean climate change. That doesn't mean that all climate science is false.
Religion is archaic, with no overarching purpose for continued existence. It can't hold up in the face of knowledge and truth.Mothra said:Personal anecdotes aside, I am not surprised your PCA church in the heart of the Bible Belt is doing well. Many churches do well in the heart of the Bible Belt, especially those who adhere to sound doctrine. Although I don't agree with all of the PCA's beliefs, as between the two groups, it is doing much better than PCUSA due in large part to its resistance to the woke element that has infected PCUSA, which the numbers show is dying.J.R. said:
i'm a member of a PCA church in Dallas, but also attend a PCUSA also. Those 2 churches are on extraordinarily solid foot including both churches in the midst of huge construction additions. I don't find that there is a huge difference in either of the churches practices. I enjoy both equally. Speaking as a recovering Baptist!
Where you really see the decline is when you go outside of the Bible Belt.
I agree with this 100%. Controlling the climate is far beyond our ability.TexasScientist said:One man's true gospel is another man's false gospel. With dubious origins, there is no way to know the original.LIB,MR BEARS said:
No agreed upon gospel is correct. We all know there are false teachers. That does not mean there is not a true gospel.
There doesn't seem to be agreed upon science for global warming, I mean climate change. That doesn't mean that all climate science is false.
We know climate change is real. We can observe it in the past, and we can observe change now. Which direction it is going from the present, causation, and our ability to effectively influence change is not completely understood or known. Climate change in the past, and likely in the future is beyond our ability to effectively control it. That's why we've always adapted to change, because we can't effectively control it, for a myriad of reasons.
Your brain is hallucinating reality before you and you have no idea if it's grounded in truth or not.TexasScientist said:I'm just pointing out the obvious fallacy of all religion. Better to face life grounded in reality.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:How did anyone get to Heaven before Christianity? Works? Don't many Catholics believe you can get there through Purgatory. Not all Christians believe the same. Many believe that belief alone gets you into heaven, following his teaching is not a requirement. There is no 'true' agreed upon Gospel message.Osodecentx said:Like the man said, your sincerity in pursuit of the Gospel message is suspect. Shooter laid out the essentialsTexasScientist said:I don't care to start a new thread or discuss this much further. I'm just pointing out when you drill down into it, there is no agreed upon Gospel message - even what you assert is agreed upon, isn't.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:Is there really a true Gospel message, and if so, what is the true Gospel message? Is it any of the many differing versions of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, or Q, M, L, or Peter, Thomas, Marcion, Basilides, Truth, Mary, Judas, Philip, the Egyptians, the Jewish Christian Gospels, or any of the infancy Gospels? Who gets to make that determination? Catholics, Gnostics, Orthodox believers, Jews, Mormons, Baptists, Anglicans, Christian scholars, objective scholars etc.?ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:Cuba doesn't reject or persecute Catholicism.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:
They're embracing some of the communal ideals of the early Christian church. Back to Christian roots.
I doubt anyone has a problem with the communal ideals part... it's the blatantly Marxist parts that are horrible.
Capitalism isn't evil. America isn't evil. America is NOT an empire.... if it were, then ALL of Mexico would now be part of the USA, as well as Cuba, Panama, the Philippines, etc.
This guy is pretending to pursue Jesus, but he is actually brain-washing a bunch of people into becoming secular communists. Communism and the Bible do not work together, which is why every communist nation started out "tolerating" religion and resulted in rejecting and persecuting Christianity.
This guy is just as dangerous as Jim Jones... remember that Jones also did a lot of missionary work, before he served up the Kool Aid.
Cuba does control Catholicism, and there have been plenty of Catholics who have been arrested or simply disappeared in Cuba after they said things that were forbidden by the Cuban government. Cuba also does this with the small number of other denominations which they allow/regulate.
China also allows "Christianity"... but it also happens to be the only religion in China were the Chinese government has re-written the central text of the religion. The only legal "Bibles" in China are the ones that are published by the CCP... and they are NOT the same as a normal Bible.
The USSR also realized it could not crush religion entirely, so they allowed the Russain Orthodox Church to exist. They made sure that the church preached the values & principles which were approved by the party, and injected communism in every message. I know because I went to Russia right after the wall came down. The people there had never heard the true Gospel message. They were taught that service to the collective was the path to the Kingdom of God.
There is a special place in hell for false teachers... the communists have their own VIP room in that place.
If you really want to discuss this in detail, you should probably start a new thread so we don't hijack this one.
When I said "true Gospel message", I was referring to the agreed upon Gospel message that Jesus is the Son of God who died for the sins of all mankind. All who believe in Him and follow His teaching will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. All who reject Him and his teachings will not enter. Salvation is by the grace of God, through faith in God, and not by works. This was NOT the teaching from the communist approved church, and that was my point.
I somehow suspect that you are not really interested in finding an honest answer to your question, as much as you are interested in trying to "prove" that Christianity and the Bible are false.
So again, if you really want to follow this tangent, I suggest you start a new thread.
Yeah... you really aren't interested in this topic... I can see that clearly.
I just read a few of your older posts...
You don't believe in God, heaven, the Bible... none of it. So your questions are not sincere at all. I would be happy to discuss this topic with someone who genuinely wanted an answer, but that's not you. No answer will ever suffice for you.
So I'll just give you the only answer that you will actually hear... there is no God... it's all a hoax... the Bible isn't real
Now, I believe those statements as much as you actually want an honest answer to your questions... so now we are both engaged in equal levels of sincerity.
Have a nice life.
Staggering amount of untethered hubris required to make that statement.TexasScientist said:Religion is archaic, with no overarching purpose for continued existence. It can't hold up in the face of knowledge and truth.Mothra said:Personal anecdotes aside, I am not surprised your PCA church in the heart of the Bible Belt is doing well. Many churches do well in the heart of the Bible Belt, especially those who adhere to sound doctrine. Although I don't agree with all of the PCA's beliefs, as between the two groups, it is doing much better than PCUSA due in large part to its resistance to the woke element that has infected PCUSA, which the numbers show is dying.J.R. said:
i'm a member of a PCA church in Dallas, but also attend a PCUSA also. Those 2 churches are on extraordinarily solid foot including both churches in the midst of huge construction additions. I don't find that there is a huge difference in either of the churches practices. I enjoy both equally. Speaking as a recovering Baptist!
Where you really see the decline is when you go outside of the Bible Belt.
I'd say untethered objectivity.Robert Wilson said:Staggering amount of untethered hubris required to make that statement.TexasScientist said:Religion is archaic, with no overarching purpose for continued existence. It can't hold up in the face of knowledge and truth.Mothra said:Personal anecdotes aside, I am not surprised your PCA church in the heart of the Bible Belt is doing well. Many churches do well in the heart of the Bible Belt, especially those who adhere to sound doctrine. Although I don't agree with all of the PCA's beliefs, as between the two groups, it is doing much better than PCUSA due in large part to its resistance to the woke element that has infected PCUSA, which the numbers show is dying.J.R. said:
i'm a member of a PCA church in Dallas, but also attend a PCUSA also. Those 2 churches are on extraordinarily solid foot including both churches in the midst of huge construction additions. I don't find that there is a huge difference in either of the churches practices. I enjoy both equally. Speaking as a recovering Baptist!
Where you really see the decline is when you go outside of the Bible Belt.
And yet it does, my atheist friend. Its adherents have been responsible for some of the greatest leaps in technology, the greatest forms of govt., and the greatest acts of kindness known to man.TexasScientist said:Religion is archaic, with no overarching purpose for continued existence. It can't hold up in the face of knowledge and truth.Mothra said:Personal anecdotes aside, I am not surprised your PCA church in the heart of the Bible Belt is doing well. Many churches do well in the heart of the Bible Belt, especially those who adhere to sound doctrine. Although I don't agree with all of the PCA's beliefs, as between the two groups, it is doing much better than PCUSA due in large part to its resistance to the woke element that has infected PCUSA, which the numbers show is dying.J.R. said:
i'm a member of a PCA church in Dallas, but also attend a PCUSA also. Those 2 churches are on extraordinarily solid foot including both churches in the midst of huge construction additions. I don't find that there is a huge difference in either of the churches practices. I enjoy both equally. Speaking as a recovering Baptist!
Where you really see the decline is when you go outside of the Bible Belt.
I quote the prophet Geddy LeeTexasScientist said:I'd say untethered objectivity.Robert Wilson said:Staggering amount of untethered hubris required to make that statement.TexasScientist said:Religion is archaic, with no overarching purpose for continued existence. It can't hold up in the face of knowledge and truth.Mothra said:Personal anecdotes aside, I am not surprised your PCA church in the heart of the Bible Belt is doing well. Many churches do well in the heart of the Bible Belt, especially those who adhere to sound doctrine. Although I don't agree with all of the PCA's beliefs, as between the two groups, it is doing much better than PCUSA due in large part to its resistance to the woke element that has infected PCUSA, which the numbers show is dying.J.R. said:
i'm a member of a PCA church in Dallas, but also attend a PCUSA also. Those 2 churches are on extraordinarily solid foot including both churches in the midst of huge construction additions. I don't find that there is a huge difference in either of the churches practices. I enjoy both equally. Speaking as a recovering Baptist!
Where you really see the decline is when you go outside of the Bible Belt.
You mean the days we don't know anything about, because of the dubious origins of the text?TexasScientist said:I don't believe it is Marxism either. It has change a lot form the days of the early church though.Sam Lowry said:That's beside the point. Christianity may be true or it may be false, but whatever it is, it isn't Marxism.TexasScientist said:I'm just pointing out the obvious fallacy of all religion. Better to face life grounded in reality.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:How did anyone get to Heaven before Christianity? Works? Don't many Catholics believe you can get there through Purgatory. Not all Christians believe the same. Many believe that belief alone gets you into heaven, following his teaching is not a requirement. There is no 'true' agreed upon Gospel message.Osodecentx said:Like the man said, your sincerity in pursuit of the Gospel message is suspect. Shooter laid out the essentialsTexasScientist said:I don't care to start a new thread or discuss this much further. I'm just pointing out when you drill down into it, there is no agreed upon Gospel message - even what you assert is agreed upon, isn't.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:Is there really a true Gospel message, and if so, what is the true Gospel message? Is it any of the many differing versions of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, or Q, M, L, or Peter, Thomas, Marcion, Basilides, Truth, Mary, Judas, Philip, the Egyptians, the Jewish Christian Gospels, or any of the infancy Gospels? Who gets to make that determination? Catholics, Gnostics, Orthodox believers, Jews, Mormons, Baptists, Anglicans, Christian scholars, objective scholars etc.?ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:Cuba doesn't reject or persecute Catholicism.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:
They're embracing some of the communal ideals of the early Christian church. Back to Christian roots.
I doubt anyone has a problem with the communal ideals part... it's the blatantly Marxist parts that are horrible.
Capitalism isn't evil. America isn't evil. America is NOT an empire.... if it were, then ALL of Mexico would now be part of the USA, as well as Cuba, Panama, the Philippines, etc.
This guy is pretending to pursue Jesus, but he is actually brain-washing a bunch of people into becoming secular communists. Communism and the Bible do not work together, which is why every communist nation started out "tolerating" religion and resulted in rejecting and persecuting Christianity.
This guy is just as dangerous as Jim Jones... remember that Jones also did a lot of missionary work, before he served up the Kool Aid.
Cuba does control Catholicism, and there have been plenty of Catholics who have been arrested or simply disappeared in Cuba after they said things that were forbidden by the Cuban government. Cuba also does this with the small number of other denominations which they allow/regulate.
China also allows "Christianity"... but it also happens to be the only religion in China were the Chinese government has re-written the central text of the religion. The only legal "Bibles" in China are the ones that are published by the CCP... and they are NOT the same as a normal Bible.
The USSR also realized it could not crush religion entirely, so they allowed the Russain Orthodox Church to exist. They made sure that the church preached the values & principles which were approved by the party, and injected communism in every message. I know because I went to Russia right after the wall came down. The people there had never heard the true Gospel message. They were taught that service to the collective was the path to the Kingdom of God.
There is a special place in hell for false teachers... the communists have their own VIP room in that place.
If you really want to discuss this in detail, you should probably start a new thread so we don't hijack this one.
When I said "true Gospel message", I was referring to the agreed upon Gospel message that Jesus is the Son of God who died for the sins of all mankind. All who believe in Him and follow His teaching will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. All who reject Him and his teachings will not enter. Salvation is by the grace of God, through faith in God, and not by works. This was NOT the teaching from the communist approved church, and that was my point.
I somehow suspect that you are not really interested in finding an honest answer to your question, as much as you are interested in trying to "prove" that Christianity and the Bible are false.
So again, if you really want to follow this tangent, I suggest you start a new thread.
Yeah... you really aren't interested in this topic... I can see that clearly.
I just read a few of your older posts...
You don't believe in God, heaven, the Bible... none of it. So your questions are not sincere at all. I would be happy to discuss this topic with someone who genuinely wanted an answer, but that's not you. No answer will ever suffice for you.
So I'll just give you the only answer that you will actually hear... there is no God... it's all a hoax... the Bible isn't real
Now, I believe those statements as much as you actually want an honest answer to your questions... so now we are both engaged in equal levels of sincerity.
Have a nice life.
SamSam Lowry said:You mean the days we don't know anything about, because of the dubious origins of the text?TexasScientist said:I don't believe it is Marxism either. It has change a lot form the days of the early church though.Sam Lowry said:That's beside the point. Christianity may be true or it may be false, but whatever it is, it isn't Marxism.TexasScientist said:I'm just pointing out the obvious fallacy of all religion. Better to face life grounded in reality.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:How did anyone get to Heaven before Christianity? Works? Don't many Catholics believe you can get there through Purgatory. Not all Christians believe the same. Many believe that belief alone gets you into heaven, following his teaching is not a requirement. There is no 'true' agreed upon Gospel message.Osodecentx said:Like the man said, your sincerity in pursuit of the Gospel message is suspect. Shooter laid out the essentialsTexasScientist said:I don't care to start a new thread or discuss this much further. I'm just pointing out when you drill down into it, there is no agreed upon Gospel message - even what you assert is agreed upon, isn't.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:Is there really a true Gospel message, and if so, what is the true Gospel message? Is it any of the many differing versions of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, or Q, M, L, or Peter, Thomas, Marcion, Basilides, Truth, Mary, Judas, Philip, the Egyptians, the Jewish Christian Gospels, or any of the infancy Gospels? Who gets to make that determination? Catholics, Gnostics, Orthodox believers, Jews, Mormons, Baptists, Anglicans, Christian scholars, objective scholars etc.?ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:Cuba doesn't reject or persecute Catholicism.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:
They're embracing some of the communal ideals of the early Christian church. Back to Christian roots.
I doubt anyone has a problem with the communal ideals part... it's the blatantly Marxist parts that are horrible.
Capitalism isn't evil. America isn't evil. America is NOT an empire.... if it were, then ALL of Mexico would now be part of the USA, as well as Cuba, Panama, the Philippines, etc.
This guy is pretending to pursue Jesus, but he is actually brain-washing a bunch of people into becoming secular communists. Communism and the Bible do not work together, which is why every communist nation started out "tolerating" religion and resulted in rejecting and persecuting Christianity.
This guy is just as dangerous as Jim Jones... remember that Jones also did a lot of missionary work, before he served up the Kool Aid.
Cuba does control Catholicism, and there have been plenty of Catholics who have been arrested or simply disappeared in Cuba after they said things that were forbidden by the Cuban government. Cuba also does this with the small number of other denominations which they allow/regulate.
China also allows "Christianity"... but it also happens to be the only religion in China were the Chinese government has re-written the central text of the religion. The only legal "Bibles" in China are the ones that are published by the CCP... and they are NOT the same as a normal Bible.
The USSR also realized it could not crush religion entirely, so they allowed the Russain Orthodox Church to exist. They made sure that the church preached the values & principles which were approved by the party, and injected communism in every message. I know because I went to Russia right after the wall came down. The people there had never heard the true Gospel message. They were taught that service to the collective was the path to the Kingdom of God.
There is a special place in hell for false teachers... the communists have their own VIP room in that place.
If you really want to discuss this in detail, you should probably start a new thread so we don't hijack this one.
When I said "true Gospel message", I was referring to the agreed upon Gospel message that Jesus is the Son of God who died for the sins of all mankind. All who believe in Him and follow His teaching will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. All who reject Him and his teachings will not enter. Salvation is by the grace of God, through faith in God, and not by works. This was NOT the teaching from the communist approved church, and that was my point.
I somehow suspect that you are not really interested in finding an honest answer to your question, as much as you are interested in trying to "prove" that Christianity and the Bible are false.
So again, if you really want to follow this tangent, I suggest you start a new thread.
Yeah... you really aren't interested in this topic... I can see that clearly.
I just read a few of your older posts...
You don't believe in God, heaven, the Bible... none of it. So your questions are not sincere at all. I would be happy to discuss this topic with someone who genuinely wanted an answer, but that's not you. No answer will ever suffice for you.
So I'll just give you the only answer that you will actually hear... there is no God... it's all a hoax... the Bible isn't real
Now, I believe those statements as much as you actually want an honest answer to your questions... so now we are both engaged in equal levels of sincerity.
Have a nice life.
Whether someone chooses to believe in something once they have considered all the evidence, or lack of it, really is their business. Anyone claiming they shouldn't is trying to impose their own value judgements on others, and turning science into an ideology.TexasScientist said:I'm just pointing out the obvious fallacy of all religion. Better to face life grounded in reality.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:How did anyone get to Heaven before Christianity? Works? Don't many Catholics believe you can get there through Purgatory. Not all Christians believe the same. Many believe that belief alone gets you into heaven, following his teaching is not a requirement. There is no 'true' agreed upon Gospel message.Osodecentx said:Like the man said, your sincerity in pursuit of the Gospel message is suspect. Shooter laid out the essentialsTexasScientist said:I don't care to start a new thread or discuss this much further. I'm just pointing out when you drill down into it, there is no agreed upon Gospel message - even what you assert is agreed upon, isn't.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:Is there really a true Gospel message, and if so, what is the true Gospel message? Is it any of the many differing versions of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, or Q, M, L, or Peter, Thomas, Marcion, Basilides, Truth, Mary, Judas, Philip, the Egyptians, the Jewish Christian Gospels, or any of the infancy Gospels? Who gets to make that determination? Catholics, Gnostics, Orthodox believers, Jews, Mormons, Baptists, Anglicans, Christian scholars, objective scholars etc.?ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:Cuba doesn't reject or persecute Catholicism.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:
They're embracing some of the communal ideals of the early Christian church. Back to Christian roots.
I doubt anyone has a problem with the communal ideals part... it's the blatantly Marxist parts that are horrible.
Capitalism isn't evil. America isn't evil. America is NOT an empire.... if it were, then ALL of Mexico would now be part of the USA, as well as Cuba, Panama, the Philippines, etc.
This guy is pretending to pursue Jesus, but he is actually brain-washing a bunch of people into becoming secular communists. Communism and the Bible do not work together, which is why every communist nation started out "tolerating" religion and resulted in rejecting and persecuting Christianity.
This guy is just as dangerous as Jim Jones... remember that Jones also did a lot of missionary work, before he served up the Kool Aid.
Cuba does control Catholicism, and there have been plenty of Catholics who have been arrested or simply disappeared in Cuba after they said things that were forbidden by the Cuban government. Cuba also does this with the small number of other denominations which they allow/regulate.
China also allows "Christianity"... but it also happens to be the only religion in China were the Chinese government has re-written the central text of the religion. The only legal "Bibles" in China are the ones that are published by the CCP... and they are NOT the same as a normal Bible.
The USSR also realized it could not crush religion entirely, so they allowed the Russain Orthodox Church to exist. They made sure that the church preached the values & principles which were approved by the party, and injected communism in every message. I know because I went to Russia right after the wall came down. The people there had never heard the true Gospel message. They were taught that service to the collective was the path to the Kingdom of God.
There is a special place in hell for false teachers... the communists have their own VIP room in that place.
If you really want to discuss this in detail, you should probably start a new thread so we don't hijack this one.
When I said "true Gospel message", I was referring to the agreed upon Gospel message that Jesus is the Son of God who died for the sins of all mankind. All who believe in Him and follow His teaching will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. All who reject Him and his teachings will not enter. Salvation is by the grace of God, through faith in God, and not by works. This was NOT the teaching from the communist approved church, and that was my point.
I somehow suspect that you are not really interested in finding an honest answer to your question, as much as you are interested in trying to "prove" that Christianity and the Bible are false.
So again, if you really want to follow this tangent, I suggest you start a new thread.
Yeah... you really aren't interested in this topic... I can see that clearly.
I just read a few of your older posts...
You don't believe in God, heaven, the Bible... none of it. So your questions are not sincere at all. I would be happy to discuss this topic with someone who genuinely wanted an answer, but that's not you. No answer will ever suffice for you.
So I'll just give you the only answer that you will actually hear... there is no God... it's all a hoax... the Bible isn't real
Now, I believe those statements as much as you actually want an honest answer to your questions... so now we are both engaged in equal levels of sincerity.
Have a nice life.
I imagine it is true that you don't see a lot of difference at the local level.J.R. said:
i'm a member of a PCA church in Dallas, but also attend a PCUSA also. Those 2 churches are on extraordinarily solid foot including both churches in the midst of huge construction additions. I don't find that there is a huge difference in either of the churches practices. I enjoy both equally. Speaking as a recovering Baptist!
The progress you describe is not due to religion. And you'd be wrong about that. The elements you consist of are inanimate matter.Mothra said:And yet it does, my atheist friend. Its adherents have been responsible for some of the greatest leaps in technology, the greatest forms of govt., and the greatest acts of kindness known to man.TexasScientist said:Religion is archaic, with no overarching purpose for continued existence. It can't hold up in the face of knowledge and truth.Mothra said:Personal anecdotes aside, I am not surprised your PCA church in the heart of the Bible Belt is doing well. Many churches do well in the heart of the Bible Belt, especially those who adhere to sound doctrine. Although I don't agree with all of the PCA's beliefs, as between the two groups, it is doing much better than PCUSA due in large part to its resistance to the woke element that has infected PCUSA, which the numbers show is dying.J.R. said:
i'm a member of a PCA church in Dallas, but also attend a PCUSA also. Those 2 churches are on extraordinarily solid foot including both churches in the midst of huge construction additions. I don't find that there is a huge difference in either of the churches practices. I enjoy both equally. Speaking as a recovering Baptist!
Where you really see the decline is when you go outside of the Bible Belt.
As of yet, knowledge and truth haven't proven that complex life forms came from inanimate matter. Until it does (it won't), religion will remain with us.
Unfortunately, you have insufficient evidence to prove your theory that complex living organisms formed from inanimate matter. It's an absurd position on its face.TexasScientist said:The progress you describe is not due to religion. And you'd be wrong about that. The elements you consist of are inanimate matter.Mothra said:And yet it does, my atheist friend. Its adherents have been responsible for some of the greatest leaps in technology, the greatest forms of govt., and the greatest acts of kindness known to man.TexasScientist said:Religion is archaic, with no overarching purpose for continued existence. It can't hold up in the face of knowledge and truth.Mothra said:Personal anecdotes aside, I am not surprised your PCA church in the heart of the Bible Belt is doing well. Many churches do well in the heart of the Bible Belt, especially those who adhere to sound doctrine. Although I don't agree with all of the PCA's beliefs, as between the two groups, it is doing much better than PCUSA due in large part to its resistance to the woke element that has infected PCUSA, which the numbers show is dying.J.R. said:
i'm a member of a PCA church in Dallas, but also attend a PCUSA also. Those 2 churches are on extraordinarily solid foot including both churches in the midst of huge construction additions. I don't find that there is a huge difference in either of the churches practices. I enjoy both equally. Speaking as a recovering Baptist!
Where you really see the decline is when you go outside of the Bible Belt.
As of yet, knowledge and truth haven't proven that complex life forms came from inanimate matter. Until it does (it won't), religion will remain with us.
Catchy. That's why the medical community isn't needed, huh?Gold Tron said:I quote the prophet Geddy LeeTexasScientist said:I'd say untethered objectivity.Robert Wilson said:Staggering amount of untethered hubris required to make that statement.TexasScientist said:Religion is archaic, with no overarching purpose for continued existence. It can't hold up in the face of knowledge and truth.Mothra said:Personal anecdotes aside, I am not surprised your PCA church in the heart of the Bible Belt is doing well. Many churches do well in the heart of the Bible Belt, especially those who adhere to sound doctrine. Although I don't agree with all of the PCA's beliefs, as between the two groups, it is doing much better than PCUSA due in large part to its resistance to the woke element that has infected PCUSA, which the numbers show is dying.J.R. said:
i'm a member of a PCA church in Dallas, but also attend a PCUSA also. Those 2 churches are on extraordinarily solid foot including both churches in the midst of huge construction additions. I don't find that there is a huge difference in either of the churches practices. I enjoy both equally. Speaking as a recovering Baptist!
Where you really see the decline is when you go outside of the Bible Belt.
"You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice,
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice!"
Either way, faith trumps evidence.
Isn't that what Christian evangelism is all about? I'm sure you think that is ok. It never hurts to examine or re-examine your beliefs, IMO.Doc Holliday said:Whether someone chooses to believe in something once they have considered all the evidence, or lack of it, really is their business. Anyone claiming they shouldn't is trying to impose their own value judgements on others, and turning science into an ideology.TexasScientist said:I'm just pointing out the obvious fallacy of all religion. Better to face life grounded in reality.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:How did anyone get to Heaven before Christianity? Works? Don't many Catholics believe you can get there through Purgatory. Not all Christians believe the same. Many believe that belief alone gets you into heaven, following his teaching is not a requirement. There is no 'true' agreed upon Gospel message.Osodecentx said:Like the man said, your sincerity in pursuit of the Gospel message is suspect. Shooter laid out the essentialsTexasScientist said:I don't care to start a new thread or discuss this much further. I'm just pointing out when you drill down into it, there is no agreed upon Gospel message - even what you assert is agreed upon, isn't.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:Is there really a true Gospel message, and if so, what is the true Gospel message? Is it any of the many differing versions of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, or Q, M, L, or Peter, Thomas, Marcion, Basilides, Truth, Mary, Judas, Philip, the Egyptians, the Jewish Christian Gospels, or any of the infancy Gospels? Who gets to make that determination? Catholics, Gnostics, Orthodox believers, Jews, Mormons, Baptists, Anglicans, Christian scholars, objective scholars etc.?ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:Cuba doesn't reject or persecute Catholicism.ShooterTX said:TexasScientist said:
They're embracing some of the communal ideals of the early Christian church. Back to Christian roots.
I doubt anyone has a problem with the communal ideals part... it's the blatantly Marxist parts that are horrible.
Capitalism isn't evil. America isn't evil. America is NOT an empire.... if it were, then ALL of Mexico would now be part of the USA, as well as Cuba, Panama, the Philippines, etc.
This guy is pretending to pursue Jesus, but he is actually brain-washing a bunch of people into becoming secular communists. Communism and the Bible do not work together, which is why every communist nation started out "tolerating" religion and resulted in rejecting and persecuting Christianity.
This guy is just as dangerous as Jim Jones... remember that Jones also did a lot of missionary work, before he served up the Kool Aid.
Cuba does control Catholicism, and there have been plenty of Catholics who have been arrested or simply disappeared in Cuba after they said things that were forbidden by the Cuban government. Cuba also does this with the small number of other denominations which they allow/regulate.
China also allows "Christianity"... but it also happens to be the only religion in China were the Chinese government has re-written the central text of the religion. The only legal "Bibles" in China are the ones that are published by the CCP... and they are NOT the same as a normal Bible.
The USSR also realized it could not crush religion entirely, so they allowed the Russain Orthodox Church to exist. They made sure that the church preached the values & principles which were approved by the party, and injected communism in every message. I know because I went to Russia right after the wall came down. The people there had never heard the true Gospel message. They were taught that service to the collective was the path to the Kingdom of God.
There is a special place in hell for false teachers... the communists have their own VIP room in that place.
If you really want to discuss this in detail, you should probably start a new thread so we don't hijack this one.
When I said "true Gospel message", I was referring to the agreed upon Gospel message that Jesus is the Son of God who died for the sins of all mankind. All who believe in Him and follow His teaching will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. All who reject Him and his teachings will not enter. Salvation is by the grace of God, through faith in God, and not by works. This was NOT the teaching from the communist approved church, and that was my point.
I somehow suspect that you are not really interested in finding an honest answer to your question, as much as you are interested in trying to "prove" that Christianity and the Bible are false.
So again, if you really want to follow this tangent, I suggest you start a new thread.
Yeah... you really aren't interested in this topic... I can see that clearly.
I just read a few of your older posts...
You don't believe in God, heaven, the Bible... none of it. So your questions are not sincere at all. I would be happy to discuss this topic with someone who genuinely wanted an answer, but that's not you. No answer will ever suffice for you.
So I'll just give you the only answer that you will actually hear... there is no God... it's all a hoax... the Bible isn't real
Now, I believe those statements as much as you actually want an honest answer to your questions... so now we are both engaged in equal levels of sincerity.
Have a nice life.
You have become that which you claim to be against.
Your made from inanimate elements (and in turn particles), just like everything else in this universe. There is objective evidence for my belief. You have no objective evidence for a creator.Mothra said:Unfortunately, you have insufficient evidence to prove your theory that complex living organisms formed from inanimate matter. It's an absurd position on its face.TexasScientist said:The progress you describe is not due to religion. And you'd be wrong about that. The elements you consist of are inanimate matter.Mothra said:And yet it does, my atheist friend. Its adherents have been responsible for some of the greatest leaps in technology, the greatest forms of govt., and the greatest acts of kindness known to man.TexasScientist said:Religion is archaic, with no overarching purpose for continued existence. It can't hold up in the face of knowledge and truth.Mothra said:Personal anecdotes aside, I am not surprised your PCA church in the heart of the Bible Belt is doing well. Many churches do well in the heart of the Bible Belt, especially those who adhere to sound doctrine. Although I don't agree with all of the PCA's beliefs, as between the two groups, it is doing much better than PCUSA due in large part to its resistance to the woke element that has infected PCUSA, which the numbers show is dying.J.R. said:
i'm a member of a PCA church in Dallas, but also attend a PCUSA also. Those 2 churches are on extraordinarily solid foot including both churches in the midst of huge construction additions. I don't find that there is a huge difference in either of the churches practices. I enjoy both equally. Speaking as a recovering Baptist!
Where you really see the decline is when you go outside of the Bible Belt.
As of yet, knowledge and truth haven't proven that complex life forms came from inanimate matter. Until it does (it won't), religion will remain with us.
But what's funny is you'd believe that b.s. over there being a creator.
