Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

One of my least favorite parts of the pandemic was listening to a bunch fat, bloated slobs with meaningless jobs...

---

at this point I thought you were going to engage in some teacher bashing.

I was so relieved that it quickly shifted into teacher-sainthood and public school worship... that was a close one!

---

And here's one now.

So teachers have meaningless jobs now? I could see how someone who ignorantly believes every day at a public school is an episode of Law and Order might think that.

---

I was attempting a bit of humor.

I think it is ironic that you laud teaching so much, and demean the everyday jobs of the parents to such an amazing degree. You characterize anyone who complains about teachers as a "fat, bloated slob with a meaningless job"... amazing. The irony that you attacked me for my joke, is just so rich!

Being a teacher is a job. It is not sainthood or only slightly less important than being the actual Messiah... it's just another job. Sorry to bring the reality, but it's true.

Teacher are replaceable.. just like most jobs and most workers in the world today.. they are not irreplaceable. It's not a particularly easy job, but that doesn't makes it unique. Being a framer in the middle of July in Texas is also an amazingly tough job... but that doesn't make it a saintly profession.

---

Teachers and farmers both have jobs that are vitally important to the health of a society and neither receives the thanks they deserve for it -- in respect or monetary compensation. The inverse is true of most other occupations.

Teaching is, indeed, a job. But to all good teachers I've ever met, including my wife, mother, sister and cousin, it's also a calling. They make ****ty salaries, deal with troubled and misbehaving kids, put up with endless **** from parents, work silly hours and spend their own money on supplies -- only to be disrespected constantly. And why do they do it? Not because they couldn't find other jobs. They do it because they care about the education and well-being of the kids they teach -- even when their parents don't.

And notice, I don't make any distinction between public and private school teachers. The only real difference I've found is that private school teachers are paid considerably less for some reason.

---

yeah... this is pretty much boilerplate stuff. Anyone who has ever attempted to engage in education reform conversations has heard what you just said.... pretty much verbatim.

You are placing teachers on such a high pedestal, that it virtually eliminates the possibility of progress. You are exactly who you expressed yourself to be in the original post... you worship teachers and the teaching profession. Teachers sit at the right hand of Jesus in your world.

There is really no point in trying to have a productive conversation with you on this topic. You have made it clear that any discussions going forward, must be completely "hand off" when it comes to teachers and their responsibilities.

Good luck to you.

---

I have made no such thing clear. But I am going to object to any conversation on education/education reform that begins in a place disrespect for the teaching profession as a whole.

---

Shooter,

The fear from the the "public employees as demigod" crowd became palpable about halfway through Covid, when everyone realized how much better they could do teaching their own kids, how much better their kids did in half the time, how much propaganda was being dispensed to their children, how much wasted time goes on in public schools and how rampant poor teaching is.

It was the confluence of these factors that relaunched the breathless, effusive public virtue signaling about how indispensable public teachers are, by leftists. It's one of the big lies they tell....and it had become patently absurd to parents virtually overnight. Expect to hear it repeated, ad-Goebbels, for the next few years.

Teachers are very well paid, get amazing (early...prior to 60) retirements, summers off, require only a limited education past HS, and are virtually immune to termination. The vast majority now are after the stability, the benefits and the constant fluffing about their 'avocation'. The handful who actually care are great. Unfortunately, they are as rare as hen's teeth.

---

If you think you can do better, great. No teacher likely wants to deal with you or teach your kids anyway.

---

I have done better. A great deal better. It took less time and the results were exceptional.

The teachers didn't like me, you are correct. I sent back assignments with corrections (misspellings, grammatical issues, incorrect math problems, scientific inaccuracies) and asked them to please check their assignments before sending them home. I sent foot noted materials back highlighting several grossly inaccurate statements about history and science. I embarrassed them and they disliked it.

I made sure my kids were aware of each and every lazy mistake or intentional mischaracterization. I taught my kids both sides of issues and explained what propaganda was using the one sided propaganda they received in many cases as an object lesson. The greatest fun was turning environmental propaganda lessons on their heads and sending back well researched projects that debunked the point of the assignment. It meant the only way for the teacher to object was to admit my kids were correct (citations helped) and explain the point was to push their point of view. We actually had a teacher delete my daughter's assignment because it demonstrated the teachers begging the question was wrong.

This taught my kids that teachers are not generally trustworthy as authority figures or final arbiters of truth and they should always seek both sides to determine where truth actually exists. I had a great many examples available to drive home this point. This was the best part of Covid.

---

What you know about life could be poured into a thimble with room for a garnish.

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

One of my least favorite parts of the pandemic was listening to a bunch fat, bloated slobs with meaningless jobs...

---

at this point I thought you were going to engage in some teacher bashing.

I was so relieved that it quickly shifted into teacher-sainthood and public school worship... that was a close one!

---

And here's one now.

So teachers have meaningless jobs now? I could see how someone who ignorantly believes every day at a public school is an episode of Law and Order might think that.

---

I was attempting a bit of humor.

I think it is ironic that you laud teaching so much, and demean the everyday jobs of the parents to such an amazing degree. You characterize anyone who complains about teachers as a "fat, bloated slob with a meaningless job"... amazing. The irony that you attacked me for my joke, is just so rich!

Being a teacher is a job. It is not sainthood or only slightly less important than being the actual Messiah... it's just another job. Sorry to bring the reality, but it's true.

Teacher are replaceable.. just like most jobs and most workers in the world today.. they are not irreplaceable. It's not a particularly easy job, but that doesn't makes it unique. Being a framer in the middle of July in Texas is also an amazingly tough job... but that doesn't make it a saintly profession.

---

Teachers and farmers both have jobs that are vitally important to the health of a society and neither receives the thanks they deserve for it -- in respect or monetary compensation. The inverse is true of most other occupations.

Teaching is, indeed, a job. But to all good teachers I've ever met, including my wife, mother, sister and cousin, it's also a calling. They make ****ty salaries, deal with troubled and misbehaving kids, put up with endless **** from parents, work silly hours and spend their own money on supplies -- only to be disrespected constantly. And why do they do it? Not because they couldn't find other jobs. They do it because they care about the education and well-being of the kids they teach -- even when their parents don't.

And notice, I don't make any distinction between public and private school teachers. The only real difference I've found is that private school teachers are paid considerably less for some reason.

---

yeah... this is pretty much boilerplate stuff. Anyone who has ever attempted to engage in education reform conversations has heard what you just said.... pretty much verbatim.

You are placing teachers on such a high pedestal, that it virtually eliminates the possibility of progress. You are exactly who you expressed yourself to be in the original post... you worship teachers and the teaching profession. Teachers sit at the right hand of Jesus in your world.

There is really no point in trying to have a productive conversation with you on this topic. You have made it clear that any discussions going forward, must be completely "hand off" when it comes to teachers and their responsibilities.

Good luck to you.

---

I have made no such thing clear. But I am going to object to any conversation on education/education reform that begins in a place disrespect for the teaching profession as a whole.

---

Shooter,

The fear from the the "public employees as demigod" crowd became palpable about halfway through Covid, when everyone realized how much better they could do teaching their own kids, how much better their kids did in half the time, how much propaganda was being dispensed to their children, how much wasted time goes on in public schools and how rampant poor teaching is.

It was the confluence of these factors that relaunched the breathless, effusive public virtue signaling about how indispensable public teachers are, by leftists. It's one of the big lies they tell....and it had become patently absurd to parents virtually overnight. Expect to hear it repeated, ad-Goebbels, for the next few years.

Teachers are very well paid, get amazing (early...prior to 60) retirements, summers off, require only a limited education past HS, and are virtually immune to termination. The vast majority now are after the stability, the benefits and the constant fluffing about their 'avocation'. The handful who actually care are great. Unfortunately, they are as rare as hen's teeth.

---

If you think you can do better, great. No teacher likely wants to deal with you or teach your kids anyway.

---

I have done better. A great deal better. It took less time and the results were exceptional.

The teachers didn't like me, you are correct. I sent back assignments with corrections (misspellings, grammatical issues, incorrect math problems, scientific inaccuracies) and asked them to please check their assignments before sending them home. I sent foot noted materials back highlighting several grossly inaccurate statements about history and science. I embarrassed them and they disliked it.

I made sure my kids were aware of each and every lazy mistake or intentional mischaracterization. I taught my kids both sides of issues and explained what propaganda was using the one sided propaganda they received in many cases as an object lesson. The greatest fun was turning environmental propaganda lessons on their heads and sending back well researched projects that debunked the point of the assignment. It meant the only way for the teacher to object was to admit my kids were correct (citations helped) and explain the point was to push their point of view. We actually had a teacher delete my daughter's assignment because it demonstrated the teachers begging the question was wrong.

This taught my kids that teachers are not generally trustworthy as authority figures or final arbiters of truth and they should always seek both sides to determine where truth actually exists. I had a great many examples available to drive home this point. This was the best part of Covid.

---

What you know about life could be poured into a thimble with room for a garnish.

---

Who am I to disabuse you of another of your fantasies?

Facts:

- Patrick Henry College has the highest % of homeschool students in the U.S.

- Patrick Henry has the highest LSAT scores of any college

- Patrick Henry just CRUSHED the Ivies in the National Collegiate Civil Debate Competition

Homeschooling works 🏡

— Jeremy Wayne Tate (@JeremyTate41) May 24, 2021

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

One of my least favorite parts of the pandemic was listening to a bunch fat, bloated slobs with meaningless jobs...

---

at this point I thought you were going to engage in some teacher bashing.

I was so relieved that it quickly shifted into teacher-sainthood and public school worship... that was a close one!

---

And here's one now.

So teachers have meaningless jobs now? I could see how someone who ignorantly believes every day at a public school is an episode of Law and Order might think that.

---

I was attempting a bit of humor.

I think it is ironic that you laud teaching so much, and demean the everyday jobs of the parents to such an amazing degree. You characterize anyone who complains about teachers as a "fat, bloated slob with a meaningless job"... amazing. The irony that you attacked me for my joke, is just so rich!

Being a teacher is a job. It is not sainthood or only slightly less important than being the actual Messiah... it's just another job. Sorry to bring the reality, but it's true.

Teacher are replaceable.. just like most jobs and most workers in the world today.. they are not irreplaceable. It's not a particularly easy job, but that doesn't makes it unique. Being a framer in the middle of July in Texas is also an amazingly tough job... but that doesn't make it a saintly profession.

---

Teachers and farmers both have jobs that are vitally important to the health of a society and neither receives the thanks they deserve for it -- in respect or monetary compensation. The inverse is true of most other occupations.

Teaching is, indeed, a job. But to all good teachers I've ever met, including my wife, mother, sister and cousin, it's also a calling. They make ****ty salaries, deal with troubled and misbehaving kids, put up with endless **** from parents, work silly hours and spend their own money on supplies -- only to be disrespected constantly. And why do they do it? Not because they couldn't find other jobs. They do it because they care about the education and well-being of the kids they teach -- even when their parents don't.

And notice, I don't make any distinction between public and private school teachers. The only real difference I've found is that private school teachers are paid considerably less for some reason.

---

yeah... this is pretty much boilerplate stuff. Anyone who has ever attempted to engage in education reform conversations has heard what you just said.... pretty much verbatim.

You are placing teachers on such a high pedestal, that it virtually eliminates the possibility of progress. You are exactly who you expressed yourself to be in the original post... you worship teachers and the teaching profession. Teachers sit at the right hand of Jesus in your world.

There is really no point in trying to have a productive conversation with you on this topic. You have made it clear that any discussions going forward, must be completely "hand off" when it comes to teachers and their responsibilities.

Good luck to you.

---

I have made no such thing clear. But I am going to object to any conversation on education/education reform that begins in a place disrespect for the teaching profession as a whole.

---

Shooter,

The fear from the the "public employees as demigod" crowd became palpable about halfway through Covid, when everyone realized how much better they could do teaching their own kids, how much better their kids did in half the time, how much propaganda was being dispensed to their children, how much wasted time goes on in public schools and how rampant poor teaching is.

It was the confluence of these factors that relaunched the breathless, effusive public virtue signaling about how indispensable public teachers are, by leftists. It's one of the big lies they tell....and it had become patently absurd to parents virtually overnight. Expect to hear it repeated, ad-Goebbels, for the next few years.

Teachers are very well paid, get amazing (early...prior to 60) retirements, summers off, require only a limited education past HS, and are virtually immune to termination. The vast majority now are after the stability, the benefits and the constant fluffing about their 'avocation'. The handful who actually care are great. Unfortunately, they are as rare as hen's teeth.

---

If you think you can do better, great. No teacher likely wants to deal with you or teach your kids anyway.

---

I have done better. A great deal better. It took less time and the results were exceptional.

The teachers didn't like me, you are correct. I sent back assignments with corrections (misspellings, grammatical issues, incorrect math problems, scientific inaccuracies) and asked them to please check their assignments before sending them home. I sent foot noted materials back highlighting several grossly inaccurate statements about history and science. I embarrassed them and they disliked it.

I made sure my kids were aware of each and every lazy mistake or intentional mischaracterization. I taught my kids both sides of issues and explained what propaganda was using the one sided propaganda they received in many cases as an object lesson. The greatest fun was turning environmental propaganda lessons on their heads and sending back well researched projects that debunked the point of the assignment. It meant the only way for the teacher to object was to admit my kids were correct (citations helped) and explain the point was to push their point of view. We actually had a teacher delete my daughter's assignment because it demonstrated the teachers begging the question was wrong.

This taught my kids that teachers are not generally trustworthy as authority figures or final arbiters of truth and they should always seek both sides to determine where truth actually exists. I had a great many examples available to drive home this point. This was the best part of Covid.

---

What you know about life could be poured into a thimble with room for a garnish.

---

He is kind of kicking your ass. You sure that is the best you got?

Booray said:

---

Malbec said:

---

Booray said:

---

Malbec said:

---

Booray said:

---

If the NCAA announced that athletes no longer needed to attend the school they played for we would say the new rule destroys the purpose of athletics. The same thing applies to high school-athletes are supposed to play for their school, not a school.

As to academic performance, my guess is that Mothra's excelling home schoolers would also excel if they attended public schools.

---

Wouldn't they be playing for their school?

---

No, they wouldn't. A kid's school is the school he or she attends. Deals with the teachers, the administrators, the other students and the facilities. The good and the bad.

---

I think you misunderstood my question. You made a correlation to college student-athletes which I find confusing. You seem to be suggesting that home-schooled students had the same opportunity to select the school for which they choose to play, hence "a school" and not "their school." My question concerned the fact that "their school" would be the one in their attendance zone, and isn't that the one they would play for if they played, not simply "a school?"

---

First, your assumption would often be incorrect. With school choice and magnets, people often have several options of which school they can attend. Second, there will be some families who will move for the best opportunity.


Second and more importantly, I was focused on the concept of school as a community. We recognize our athletes as Baylor Bears because they attend classes at Baylor. There is a commonality between the athletes and the rest of the student body. The whole enterprise of "us versus them" depends on the athletes being part of us.

So it's one thing to live around the school; it's another to be part of the school.

---

That's a helluva stretch there. We have whole different playbook for our major sport athletes and no one gives a damn about the minor sports. Really poor analogy to draw into this argument.

We've *******ized college for major collegiate athletics because we enjoy it as entertainment. It is what it is. And about 7 people care about the minor sports, much of which is heavily title 9 driven. The application to this subject is nil.

GrowlTowel said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

One of my least favorite parts of the pandemic was listening to a bunch fat, bloated slobs with meaningless jobs...

---

at this point I thought you were going to engage in some teacher bashing.

I was so relieved that it quickly shifted into teacher-sainthood and public school worship... that was a close one!

---

And here's one now.

So teachers have meaningless jobs now? I could see how someone who ignorantly believes every day at a public school is an episode of Law and Order might think that.

---

I was attempting a bit of humor.

I think it is ironic that you laud teaching so much, and demean the everyday jobs of the parents to such an amazing degree. You characterize anyone who complains about teachers as a "fat, bloated slob with a meaningless job"... amazing. The irony that you attacked me for my joke, is just so rich!

Being a teacher is a job. It is not sainthood or only slightly less important than being the actual Messiah... it's just another job. Sorry to bring the reality, but it's true.

Teacher are replaceable.. just like most jobs and most workers in the world today.. they are not irreplaceable. It's not a particularly easy job, but that doesn't makes it unique. Being a framer in the middle of July in Texas is also an amazingly tough job... but that doesn't make it a saintly profession.

---

Teachers and farmers both have jobs that are vitally important to the health of a society and neither receives the thanks they deserve for it -- in respect or monetary compensation. The inverse is true of most other occupations.

Teaching is, indeed, a job. But to all good teachers I've ever met, including my wife, mother, sister and cousin, it's also a calling. They make ****ty salaries, deal with troubled and misbehaving kids, put up with endless **** from parents, work silly hours and spend their own money on supplies -- only to be disrespected constantly. And why do they do it? Not because they couldn't find other jobs. They do it because they care about the education and well-being of the kids they teach -- even when their parents don't.

And notice, I don't make any distinction between public and private school teachers. The only real difference I've found is that private school teachers are paid considerably less for some reason.

---

yeah... this is pretty much boilerplate stuff. Anyone who has ever attempted to engage in education reform conversations has heard what you just said.... pretty much verbatim.

You are placing teachers on such a high pedestal, that it virtually eliminates the possibility of progress. You are exactly who you expressed yourself to be in the original post... you worship teachers and the teaching profession. Teachers sit at the right hand of Jesus in your world.

There is really no point in trying to have a productive conversation with you on this topic. You have made it clear that any discussions going forward, must be completely "hand off" when it comes to teachers and their responsibilities.

Good luck to you.

---

I have made no such thing clear. But I am going to object to any conversation on education/education reform that begins in a place disrespect for the teaching profession as a whole.

---

Shooter,

The fear from the the "public employees as demigod" crowd became palpable about halfway through Covid, when everyone realized how much better they could do teaching their own kids, how much better their kids did in half the time, how much propaganda was being dispensed to their children, how much wasted time goes on in public schools and how rampant poor teaching is.

It was the confluence of these factors that relaunched the breathless, effusive public virtue signaling about how indispensable public teachers are, by leftists. It's one of the big lies they tell....and it had become patently absurd to parents virtually overnight. Expect to hear it repeated, ad-Goebbels, for the next few years.

Teachers are very well paid, get amazing (early...prior to 60) retirements, summers off, require only a limited education past HS, and are virtually immune to termination. The vast majority now are after the stability, the benefits and the constant fluffing about their 'avocation'. The handful who actually care are great. Unfortunately, they are as rare as hen's teeth.

---

If you think you can do better, great. No teacher likely wants to deal with you or teach your kids anyway.

---

I have done better. A great deal better. It took less time and the results were exceptional.

The teachers didn't like me, you are correct. I sent back assignments with corrections (misspellings, grammatical issues, incorrect math problems, scientific inaccuracies) and asked them to please check their assignments before sending them home. I sent foot noted materials back highlighting several grossly inaccurate statements about history and science. I embarrassed them and they disliked it.

I made sure my kids were aware of each and every lazy mistake or intentional mischaracterization. I taught my kids both sides of issues and explained what propaganda was using the one sided propaganda they received in many cases as an object lesson. The greatest fun was turning environmental propaganda lessons on their heads and sending back well researched projects that debunked the point of the assignment. It meant the only way for the teacher to object was to admit my kids were correct (citations helped) and explain the point was to push their point of view. We actually had a teacher delete my daughter's assignment because it demonstrated the teachers begging the question was wrong.

This taught my kids that teachers are not generally trustworthy as authority figures or final arbiters of truth and they should always seek both sides to determine where truth actually exists. I had a great many examples available to drive home this point. This was the best part of Covid.

---

What you know about life could be poured into a thimble with room for a garnish.

---

He is kind of kicking your ass. You sure that is the best you got?

---

Here's an actual email I sent:


Dear Ms. [redacted],

I hope this finds you well. I'd like to speak to the lesson from today in a respectful, but very candid manner. We watched your video as a family and found several significant inaccuracies. Contrary to your statements, the climate has not warmed 3-4 degrees in the last 20 years. High estimates place it at circa 2 degrees Fahrenheit in the last 100+ years. Additionally, volcanoes and tsunamis are not resultant, in any way, from the climate. Indeed, they are tectonic events by turns, a rupture in the earth's crust and resultant from an undersea earthquake. These are very easily identifiable inaccuracies which I suspect were unintentional on your part.

As the assignment was clearly a one-sided advocacy lesson with little apparent consideration for the complexity of the topic itself, I have worked with my son, [redacted], to respond to your assignment in a way that provides him with a well-rounded view of the topic. The text you will read will make that clear. [Redacted]'s assignment is based in data and demonstrates to him that every topic has more than one rational point of view, catastrophic alarmism is unnecessary and apocalyptic predictions are virtually always wrong particularly as regards an unfalsifiable claim like anthropogenic climate change.

I'll conclude by noting that we, as a family, find using apparent emotional appeals with children in an educational context to be improper. We understand the curriculum is given to you and perhaps not your choice to deliver, but we would welcome future lessons being less emotionally driven.

Kindest Regards,

GrowlTowel said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

One of my least favorite parts of the pandemic was listening to a bunch fat, bloated slobs with meaningless jobs...

---

at this point I thought you were going to engage in some teacher bashing.

I was so relieved that it quickly shifted into teacher-sainthood and public school worship... that was a close one!

---

And here's one now.

So teachers have meaningless jobs now? I could see how someone who ignorantly believes every day at a public school is an episode of Law and Order might think that.

---

I was attempting a bit of humor.

I think it is ironic that you laud teaching so much, and demean the everyday jobs of the parents to such an amazing degree. You characterize anyone who complains about teachers as a "fat, bloated slob with a meaningless job"... amazing. The irony that you attacked me for my joke, is just so rich!

Being a teacher is a job. It is not sainthood or only slightly less important than being the actual Messiah... it's just another job. Sorry to bring the reality, but it's true.

Teacher are replaceable.. just like most jobs and most workers in the world today.. they are not irreplaceable. It's not a particularly easy job, but that doesn't makes it unique. Being a framer in the middle of July in Texas is also an amazingly tough job... but that doesn't make it a saintly profession.

---

Teachers and farmers both have jobs that are vitally important to the health of a society and neither receives the thanks they deserve for it -- in respect or monetary compensation. The inverse is true of most other occupations.

Teaching is, indeed, a job. But to all good teachers I've ever met, including my wife, mother, sister and cousin, it's also a calling. They make ****ty salaries, deal with troubled and misbehaving kids, put up with endless **** from parents, work silly hours and spend their own money on supplies -- only to be disrespected constantly. And why do they do it? Not because they couldn't find other jobs. They do it because they care about the education and well-being of the kids they teach -- even when their parents don't.

And notice, I don't make any distinction between public and private school teachers. The only real difference I've found is that private school teachers are paid considerably less for some reason.

---

yeah... this is pretty much boilerplate stuff. Anyone who has ever attempted to engage in education reform conversations has heard what you just said.... pretty much verbatim.

You are placing teachers on such a high pedestal, that it virtually eliminates the possibility of progress. You are exactly who you expressed yourself to be in the original post... you worship teachers and the teaching profession. Teachers sit at the right hand of Jesus in your world.

There is really no point in trying to have a productive conversation with you on this topic. You have made it clear that any discussions going forward, must be completely "hand off" when it comes to teachers and their responsibilities.

Good luck to you.

---

I have made no such thing clear. But I am going to object to any conversation on education/education reform that begins in a place disrespect for the teaching profession as a whole.

---

Shooter,

The fear from the the "public employees as demigod" crowd became palpable about halfway through Covid, when everyone realized how much better they could do teaching their own kids, how much better their kids did in half the time, how much propaganda was being dispensed to their children, how much wasted time goes on in public schools and how rampant poor teaching is.

It was the confluence of these factors that relaunched the breathless, effusive public virtue signaling about how indispensable public teachers are, by leftists. It's one of the big lies they tell....and it had become patently absurd to parents virtually overnight. Expect to hear it repeated, ad-Goebbels, for the next few years.

Teachers are very well paid, get amazing (early...prior to 60) retirements, summers off, require only a limited education past HS, and are virtually immune to termination. The vast majority now are after the stability, the benefits and the constant fluffing about their 'avocation'. The handful who actually care are great. Unfortunately, they are as rare as hen's teeth.

---

If you think you can do better, great. No teacher likely wants to deal with you or teach your kids anyway.

---

I have done better. A great deal better. It took less time and the results were exceptional.

The teachers didn't like me, you are correct. I sent back assignments with corrections (misspellings, grammatical issues, incorrect math problems, scientific inaccuracies) and asked them to please check their assignments before sending them home. I sent foot noted materials back highlighting several grossly inaccurate statements about history and science. I embarrassed them and they disliked it.

I made sure my kids were aware of each and every lazy mistake or intentional mischaracterization. I taught my kids both sides of issues and explained what propaganda was using the one sided propaganda they received in many cases as an object lesson. The greatest fun was turning environmental propaganda lessons on their heads and sending back well researched projects that debunked the point of the assignment. It meant the only way for the teacher to object was to admit my kids were correct (citations helped) and explain the point was to push their point of view. We actually had a teacher delete my daughter's assignment because it demonstrated the teachers begging the question was wrong.

This taught my kids that teachers are not generally trustworthy as authority figures or final arbiters of truth and they should always seek both sides to determine where truth actually exists. I had a great many examples available to drive home this point. This was the best part of Covid.

---

What you know about life could be poured into a thimble with room for a garnish.

---

He is kind of kicking your ass. You sure that is the best you got?

---

The scores from the Romanian judge seem a bit off.

bear2be2 said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

One of my least favorite parts of the pandemic was listening to a bunch fat, bloated slobs with meaningless jobs...

---

at this point I thought you were going to engage in some teacher bashing.

I was so relieved that it quickly shifted into teacher-sainthood and public school worship... that was a close one!

---

And here's one now.

So teachers have meaningless jobs now? I could see how someone who ignorantly believes every day at a public school is an episode of Law and Order might think that.

---

I was attempting a bit of humor.

I think it is ironic that you laud teaching so much, and demean the everyday jobs of the parents to such an amazing degree. You characterize anyone who complains about teachers as a "fat, bloated slob with a meaningless job"... amazing. The irony that you attacked me for my joke, is just so rich!

Being a teacher is a job. It is not sainthood or only slightly less important than being the actual Messiah... it's just another job. Sorry to bring the reality, but it's true.

Teacher are replaceable.. just like most jobs and most workers in the world today.. they are not irreplaceable. It's not a particularly easy job, but that doesn't makes it unique. Being a framer in the middle of July in Texas is also an amazingly tough job... but that doesn't make it a saintly profession.

---

Teachers and farmers both have jobs that are vitally important to the health of a society and neither receives the thanks they deserve for it -- in respect or monetary compensation. The inverse is true of most other occupations.

Teaching is, indeed, a job. But to all good teachers I've ever met, including my wife, mother, sister and cousin, it's also a calling. They make ****ty salaries, deal with troubled and misbehaving kids, put up with endless **** from parents, work silly hours and spend their own money on supplies -- only to be disrespected constantly. And why do they do it? Not because they couldn't find other jobs. They do it because they care about the education and well-being of the kids they teach -- even when their parents don't.

And notice, I don't make any distinction between public and private school teachers. The only real difference I've found is that private school teachers are paid considerably less for some reason.

---

yeah... this is pretty much boilerplate stuff. Anyone who has ever attempted to engage in education reform conversations has heard what you just said.... pretty much verbatim.

You are placing teachers on such a high pedestal, that it virtually eliminates the possibility of progress. You are exactly who you expressed yourself to be in the original post... you worship teachers and the teaching profession. Teachers sit at the right hand of Jesus in your world.

There is really no point in trying to have a productive conversation with you on this topic. You have made it clear that any discussions going forward, must be completely "hand off" when it comes to teachers and their responsibilities.

Good luck to you.

---

I have made no such thing clear. But I am going to object to any conversation on education/education reform that begins in a place disrespect for the teaching profession as a whole.

---

Shooter,

The fear from the the "public employees as demigod" crowd became palpable about halfway through Covid, when everyone realized how much better they could do teaching their own kids, how much better their kids did in half the time, how much propaganda was being dispensed to their children, how much wasted time goes on in public schools and how rampant poor teaching is.

It was the confluence of these factors that relaunched the breathless, effusive public virtue signaling about how indispensable public teachers are, by leftists. It's one of the big lies they tell....and it had become patently absurd to parents virtually overnight. Expect to hear it repeated, ad-Goebbels, for the next few years.

Teachers are very well paid, get amazing (early...prior to 60) retirements, summers off, require only a limited education past HS, and are virtually immune to termination. The vast majority now are after the stability, the benefits and the constant fluffing about their 'avocation'. The handful who actually care are great. Unfortunately, they are as rare as hen's teeth.

---

If you think you can do better, great. No teacher likely wants to deal with you or teach your kids anyway.

---

A good friend of mine decided to pull his daughter out of public school in the middle of spring about 2 years ago. He and his wife had had enough of the political propaganda that the schools were pushing, and calling it "science" or "history".

He received 3 different calls from administrators, begging them to come back. The last call was when they asked him if his daughter could just come back and take her state tests for at the end of the year. That's when he realized that the only value his daughter really had for them, was to bring up the standardized test scores, so the school could keep their ranking and their money.

"No teacher likely wants to deal with you or teach your kids anyway." - this statement is true in many cases, but not for the reasons you insinuated. They don't want to "deal with" or "teach" good kids, because they don't care about them beyond their standardized test scores.

You have a ridiculous level of worship for teachers. Teaching is really not that hard. I've done it, and so have many of my family, in homeschool, public school and private school. My original posts had NOTHING to do with teachers... YOU brought up teachers, by denigrating and attacking parents & their jobs, which was specious & unnecessary.
Teachers unions and the red tape around teachers in public schools IS a massive part of the problem... but someone who worships the profession as you do will never admit to that. For this reason, you are not a rational participant in a conversation about improving public education... you are perpetuating the problems. Your illogical & emotional devotion to public school teachers also blinds you to the realities of homeschooling and alternatives to public school... and that is sad.

Booray said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

One of my least favorite parts of the pandemic was listening to a bunch fat, bloated slobs with meaningless jobs...

---

at this point I thought you were going to engage in some teacher bashing.

I was so relieved that it quickly shifted into teacher-sainthood and public school worship... that was a close one!

---

And here's one now.

So teachers have meaningless jobs now? I could see how someone who ignorantly believes every day at a public school is an episode of Law and Order might think that.

---

I was attempting a bit of humor.

I think it is ironic that you laud teaching so much, and demean the everyday jobs of the parents to such an amazing degree. You characterize anyone who complains about teachers as a "fat, bloated slob with a meaningless job"... amazing. The irony that you attacked me for my joke, is just so rich!

Being a teacher is a job. It is not sainthood or only slightly less important than being the actual Messiah... it's just another job. Sorry to bring the reality, but it's true.

Teacher are replaceable.. just like most jobs and most workers in the world today.. they are not irreplaceable. It's not a particularly easy job, but that doesn't makes it unique. Being a framer in the middle of July in Texas is also an amazingly tough job... but that doesn't make it a saintly profession.

---

Teachers and farmers both have jobs that are vitally important to the health of a society and neither receives the thanks they deserve for it -- in respect or monetary compensation. The inverse is true of most other occupations.

Teaching is, indeed, a job. But to all good teachers I've ever met, including my wife, mother, sister and cousin, it's also a calling. They make ****ty salaries, deal with troubled and misbehaving kids, put up with endless **** from parents, work silly hours and spend their own money on supplies -- only to be disrespected constantly. And why do they do it? Not because they couldn't find other jobs. They do it because they care about the education and well-being of the kids they teach -- even when their parents don't.

And notice, I don't make any distinction between public and private school teachers. The only real difference I've found is that private school teachers are paid considerably less for some reason.

---

yeah... this is pretty much boilerplate stuff. Anyone who has ever attempted to engage in education reform conversations has heard what you just said.... pretty much verbatim.

You are placing teachers on such a high pedestal, that it virtually eliminates the possibility of progress. You are exactly who you expressed yourself to be in the original post... you worship teachers and the teaching profession. Teachers sit at the right hand of Jesus in your world.

There is really no point in trying to have a productive conversation with you on this topic. You have made it clear that any discussions going forward, must be completely "hand off" when it comes to teachers and their responsibilities.

Good luck to you.

---

I have made no such thing clear. But I am going to object to any conversation on education/education reform that begins in a place disrespect for the teaching profession as a whole.

---

Shooter,

The fear from the the "public employees as demigod" crowd became palpable about halfway through Covid, when everyone realized how much better they could do teaching their own kids, how much better their kids did in half the time, how much propaganda was being dispensed to their children, how much wasted time goes on in public schools and how rampant poor teaching is.

It was the confluence of these factors that relaunched the breathless, effusive public virtue signaling about how indispensable public teachers are, by leftists. It's one of the big lies they tell....and it had become patently absurd to parents virtually overnight. Expect to hear it repeated, ad-Goebbels, for the next few years.

Teachers are very well paid, get amazing (early...prior to 60) retirements, summers off, require only a limited education past HS, and are virtually immune to termination. The vast majority now are after the stability, the benefits and the constant fluffing about their 'avocation'. The handful who actually care are great. Unfortunately, they are as rare as hen's teeth.

---

If you think you can do better, great. No teacher likely wants to deal with you or teach your kids anyway.

---

I have done better. A great deal better. It took less time and the results were exceptional.

The teachers didn't like me, you are correct. I sent back assignments with corrections (misspellings, grammatical issues, incorrect math problems, scientific inaccuracies) and asked them to please check their assignments before sending them home. I sent foot noted materials back highlighting several grossly inaccurate statements about history and science. I embarrassed them and they disliked it.

I made sure my kids were aware of each and every lazy mistake or intentional mischaracterization. I taught my kids both sides of issues and explained what propaganda was using the one sided propaganda they received in many cases as an object lesson. The greatest fun was turning environmental propaganda lessons on their heads and sending back well researched projects that debunked the point of the assignment. It meant the only way for the teacher to object was to admit my kids were correct (citations helped) and explain the point was to push their point of view. We actually had a teacher delete my daughter's assignment because it demonstrated the teachers begging the question was wrong.

This taught my kids that teachers are not generally trustworthy as authority figures or final arbiters of truth and they should always seek both sides to determine where truth actually exists. I had a great many examples available to drive home this point. This was the best part of Covid.

---

What you know about life could be poured into a thimble with room for a garnish.

---

He is kind of kicking your ass. You sure that is the best you got?

---

The scores from the Romanian judge seem a bit off.

---

Maybe you shouldn't have married her, then?

Canon said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

One of my least favorite parts of the pandemic was listening to a bunch fat, bloated slobs with meaningless jobs...

---

at this point I thought you were going to engage in some teacher bashing.

I was so relieved that it quickly shifted into teacher-sainthood and public school worship... that was a close one!

---

And here's one now.

So teachers have meaningless jobs now? I could see how someone who ignorantly believes every day at a public school is an episode of Law and Order might think that.

---

I was attempting a bit of humor.

I think it is ironic that you laud teaching so much, and demean the everyday jobs of the parents to such an amazing degree. You characterize anyone who complains about teachers as a "fat, bloated slob with a meaningless job"... amazing. The irony that you attacked me for my joke, is just so rich!

Being a teacher is a job. It is not sainthood or only slightly less important than being the actual Messiah... it's just another job. Sorry to bring the reality, but it's true.

Teacher are replaceable.. just like most jobs and most workers in the world today.. they are not irreplaceable. It's not a particularly easy job, but that doesn't makes it unique. Being a framer in the middle of July in Texas is also an amazingly tough job... but that doesn't make it a saintly profession.

---

Teachers and farmers both have jobs that are vitally important to the health of a society and neither receives the thanks they deserve for it -- in respect or monetary compensation. The inverse is true of most other occupations.

Teaching is, indeed, a job. But to all good teachers I've ever met, including my wife, mother, sister and cousin, it's also a calling. They make ****ty salaries, deal with troubled and misbehaving kids, put up with endless **** from parents, work silly hours and spend their own money on supplies -- only to be disrespected constantly. And why do they do it? Not because they couldn't find other jobs. They do it because they care about the education and well-being of the kids they teach -- even when their parents don't.

And notice, I don't make any distinction between public and private school teachers. The only real difference I've found is that private school teachers are paid considerably less for some reason.

---

yeah... this is pretty much boilerplate stuff. Anyone who has ever attempted to engage in education reform conversations has heard what you just said.... pretty much verbatim.

You are placing teachers on such a high pedestal, that it virtually eliminates the possibility of progress. You are exactly who you expressed yourself to be in the original post... you worship teachers and the teaching profession. Teachers sit at the right hand of Jesus in your world.

There is really no point in trying to have a productive conversation with you on this topic. You have made it clear that any discussions going forward, must be completely "hand off" when it comes to teachers and their responsibilities.

Good luck to you.

---

I have made no such thing clear. But I am going to object to any conversation on education/education reform that begins in a place disrespect for the teaching profession as a whole.

---

Shooter,

The fear from the the "public employees as demigod" crowd became palpable about halfway through Covid, when everyone realized how much better they could do teaching their own kids, how much better their kids did in half the time, how much propaganda was being dispensed to their children, how much wasted time goes on in public schools and how rampant poor teaching is.

It was the confluence of these factors that relaunched the breathless, effusive public virtue signaling about how indispensable public teachers are, by leftists. It's one of the big lies they tell....and it had become patently absurd to parents virtually overnight. Expect to hear it repeated, ad-Goebbels, for the next few years.

Teachers are very well paid, get amazing (early...prior to 60) retirements, summers off, require only a limited education past HS, and are virtually immune to termination. The vast majority now are after the stability, the benefits and the constant fluffing about their 'avocation'. The handful who actually care are great. Unfortunately, they are as rare as hen's teeth.

---

If you think you can do better, great. No teacher likely wants to deal with you or teach your kids anyway.

---

I have done better. A great deal better. It took less time and the results were exceptional.

The teachers didn't like me, you are correct. I sent back assignments with corrections (misspellings, grammatical issues, incorrect math problems, scientific inaccuracies) and asked them to please check their assignments before sending them home. I sent foot noted materials back highlighting several grossly inaccurate statements about history and science. I embarrassed them and they disliked it.

I made sure my kids were aware of each and every lazy mistake or intentional mischaracterization. I taught my kids both sides of issues and explained what propaganda was using the one sided propaganda they received in many cases as an object lesson. The greatest fun was turning environmental propaganda lessons on their heads and sending back well researched projects that debunked the point of the assignment. It meant the only way for the teacher to object was to admit my kids were correct (citations helped) and explain the point was to push their point of view. We actually had a teacher delete my daughter's assignment because it demonstrated the teachers begging the question was wrong.

This taught my kids that teachers are not generally trustworthy as authority figures or final arbiters of truth and they should always seek both sides to determine where truth actually exists. I had a great many examples available to drive home this point. This was the best part of Covid.

---

What you know about life could be poured into a thimble with room for a garnish.

---

He is kind of kicking your ass. You sure that is the best you got?

---

Here's an actual email I sent:


Dear Ms. [redacted],

I hope this finds you well. I'd like to speak to the lesson from today in a respectful, but very candid manner. We watched your video as a family and found several significant inaccuracies. Contrary to your statements, the climate has not warmed 3-4 degrees in the last 20 years. High estimates place it at circa 2 degrees Fahrenheit in the last 100+ years. Additionally, volcanoes and tsunamis are not resultant, in any way, from the climate. Indeed, they are tectonic events by turns, a rupture in the earth's crust and resultant from an undersea earthquake. These are very easily identifiable inaccuracies which I suspect were unintentional on your part.

As the assignment was clearly a one-sided advocacy lesson with little apparent consideration for the complexity of the topic itself, I have worked with my son, [redacted], to respond to your assignment in a way that provides him with a well-rounded view of the topic. The text you will read will make that clear. [Redacted]'s assignment is based in data and demonstrates to him that every topic has more than one rational point of view, catastrophic alarmism is unnecessary and apocalyptic predictions are virtually always wrong particularly as regards an unfalsifiable claim like anthropogenic climate change.

I'll conclude by noting that we, as a family, find using apparent emotional appeals with children in an educational context to be improper. We understand the curriculum is given to you and perhaps not your choice to deliver, but we would welcome future lessons being less emotionally driven.

Kindest Regards,

---

This is great. Did you get a response?

riflebear said:

---

Canon said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

One of my least favorite parts of the pandemic was listening to a bunch fat, bloated slobs with meaningless jobs...

---

at this point I thought you were going to engage in some teacher bashing.

I was so relieved that it quickly shifted into teacher-sainthood and public school worship... that was a close one!

---

And here's one now.

So teachers have meaningless jobs now? I could see how someone who ignorantly believes every day at a public school is an episode of Law and Order might think that.

---

I was attempting a bit of humor.

I think it is ironic that you laud teaching so much, and demean the everyday jobs of the parents to such an amazing degree. You characterize anyone who complains about teachers as a "fat, bloated slob with a meaningless job"... amazing. The irony that you attacked me for my joke, is just so rich!

Being a teacher is a job. It is not sainthood or only slightly less important than being the actual Messiah... it's just another job. Sorry to bring the reality, but it's true.

Teacher are replaceable.. just like most jobs and most workers in the world today.. they are not irreplaceable. It's not a particularly easy job, but that doesn't makes it unique. Being a framer in the middle of July in Texas is also an amazingly tough job... but that doesn't make it a saintly profession.

---

Teachers and farmers both have jobs that are vitally important to the health of a society and neither receives the thanks they deserve for it -- in respect or monetary compensation. The inverse is true of most other occupations.

Teaching is, indeed, a job. But to all good teachers I've ever met, including my wife, mother, sister and cousin, it's also a calling. They make ****ty salaries, deal with troubled and misbehaving kids, put up with endless **** from parents, work silly hours and spend their own money on supplies -- only to be disrespected constantly. And why do they do it? Not because they couldn't find other jobs. They do it because they care about the education and well-being of the kids they teach -- even when their parents don't.

And notice, I don't make any distinction between public and private school teachers. The only real difference I've found is that private school teachers are paid considerably less for some reason.

---

yeah... this is pretty much boilerplate stuff. Anyone who has ever attempted to engage in education reform conversations has heard what you just said.... pretty much verbatim.

You are placing teachers on such a high pedestal, that it virtually eliminates the possibility of progress. You are exactly who you expressed yourself to be in the original post... you worship teachers and the teaching profession. Teachers sit at the right hand of Jesus in your world.

There is really no point in trying to have a productive conversation with you on this topic. You have made it clear that any discussions going forward, must be completely "hand off" when it comes to teachers and their responsibilities.

Good luck to you.

---

I have made no such thing clear. But I am going to object to any conversation on education/education reform that begins in a place disrespect for the teaching profession as a whole.

---

Shooter,

The fear from the the "public employees as demigod" crowd became palpable about halfway through Covid, when everyone realized how much better they could do teaching their own kids, how much better their kids did in half the time, how much propaganda was being dispensed to their children, how much wasted time goes on in public schools and how rampant poor teaching is.

It was the confluence of these factors that relaunched the breathless, effusive public virtue signaling about how indispensable public teachers are, by leftists. It's one of the big lies they tell....and it had become patently absurd to parents virtually overnight. Expect to hear it repeated, ad-Goebbels, for the next few years.

Teachers are very well paid, get amazing (early...prior to 60) retirements, summers off, require only a limited education past HS, and are virtually immune to termination. The vast majority now are after the stability, the benefits and the constant fluffing about their 'avocation'. The handful who actually care are great. Unfortunately, they are as rare as hen's teeth.

---

If you think you can do better, great. No teacher likely wants to deal with you or teach your kids anyway.

---

I have done better. A great deal better. It took less time and the results were exceptional.

The teachers didn't like me, you are correct. I sent back assignments with corrections (misspellings, grammatical issues, incorrect math problems, scientific inaccuracies) and asked them to please check their assignments before sending them home. I sent foot noted materials back highlighting several grossly inaccurate statements about history and science. I embarrassed them and they disliked it.

I made sure my kids were aware of each and every lazy mistake or intentional mischaracterization. I taught my kids both sides of issues and explained what propaganda was using the one sided propaganda they received in many cases as an object lesson. The greatest fun was turning environmental propaganda lessons on their heads and sending back well researched projects that debunked the point of the assignment. It meant the only way for the teacher to object was to admit my kids were correct (citations helped) and explain the point was to push their point of view. We actually had a teacher delete my daughter's assignment because it demonstrated the teachers begging the question was wrong.

This taught my kids that teachers are not generally trustworthy as authority figures or final arbiters of truth and they should always seek both sides to determine where truth actually exists. I had a great many examples available to drive home this point. This was the best part of Covid.

---

What you know about life could be poured into a thimble with room for a garnish.

---

He is kind of kicking your ass. You sure that is the best you got?

---

Here's an actual email I sent:


Dear Ms. [redacted],

I hope this finds you well. I'd like to speak to the lesson from today in a respectful, but very candid manner. We watched your video as a family and found several significant inaccuracies. Contrary to your statements, the climate has not warmed 3-4 degrees in the last 20 years. High estimates place it at circa 2 degrees Fahrenheit in the last 100+ years. Additionally, volcanoes and tsunamis are not resultant, in any way, from the climate. Indeed, they are tectonic events by turns, a rupture in the earth's crust and resultant from an undersea earthquake. These are very easily identifiable inaccuracies which I suspect were unintentional on your part.

As the assignment was clearly a one-sided advocacy lesson with little apparent consideration for the complexity of the topic itself, I have worked with my son, [redacted], to respond to your assignment in a way that provides him with a well-rounded view of the topic. The text you will read will make that clear. [Redacted]'s assignment is based in data and demonstrates to him that every topic has more than one rational point of view, catastrophic alarmism is unnecessary and apocalyptic predictions are virtually always wrong particularly as regards an unfalsifiable claim like anthropogenic climate change.

I'll conclude by noting that we, as a family, find using apparent emotional appeals with children in an educational context to be improper. We understand the curriculum is given to you and perhaps not your choice to deliver, but we would welcome future lessons being less emotionally driven.

Kindest Regards,

---

This is great. Did you get a response?

---

Yes. Lip service and taking the way out I provided her. A very cordial 'not my responsibility'.

Good morning,

Thank you for your email.

Firstly, you are right in your assumption that for Social Studies, the curriculum areas are given to us by the [redacted] and are mandatory to teach. As the content is taken directly from this, I have passed on your concerns to our director of Social Studies who will be able to take this matter further.

Additionally, thank you for your feedback regarding the lesson outline. I will ensure that future lessons are more thoroughly researched to ensure that the children have a full view of the topics being covered. In regards to [redacted]'s submitted work, I can tell that his understanding and interpretation of data and facts are comprehensive and mature for his age. Thank you for all of your support in his learning.

Please do contact me with any other questions or queries you may have.
Kind regards,

Canon said:

---

riflebear said:

---

Canon said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

One of my least favorite parts of the pandemic was listening to a bunch fat, bloated slobs with meaningless jobs...

---

at this point I thought you were going to engage in some teacher bashing.

I was so relieved that it quickly shifted into teacher-sainthood and public school worship... that was a close one!

---

And here's one now.

So teachers have meaningless jobs now? I could see how someone who ignorantly believes every day at a public school is an episode of Law and Order might think that.

---

I was attempting a bit of humor.

I think it is ironic that you laud teaching so much, and demean the everyday jobs of the parents to such an amazing degree. You characterize anyone who complains about teachers as a "fat, bloated slob with a meaningless job"... amazing. The irony that you attacked me for my joke, is just so rich!

Being a teacher is a job. It is not sainthood or only slightly less important than being the actual Messiah... it's just another job. Sorry to bring the reality, but it's true.

Teacher are replaceable.. just like most jobs and most workers in the world today.. they are not irreplaceable. It's not a particularly easy job, but that doesn't makes it unique. Being a framer in the middle of July in Texas is also an amazingly tough job... but that doesn't make it a saintly profession.

---

Teachers and farmers both have jobs that are vitally important to the health of a society and neither receives the thanks they deserve for it -- in respect or monetary compensation. The inverse is true of most other occupations.

Teaching is, indeed, a job. But to all good teachers I've ever met, including my wife, mother, sister and cousin, it's also a calling. They make ****ty salaries, deal with troubled and misbehaving kids, put up with endless **** from parents, work silly hours and spend their own money on supplies -- only to be disrespected constantly. And why do they do it? Not because they couldn't find other jobs. They do it because they care about the education and well-being of the kids they teach -- even when their parents don't.

And notice, I don't make any distinction between public and private school teachers. The only real difference I've found is that private school teachers are paid considerably less for some reason.

---

yeah... this is pretty much boilerplate stuff. Anyone who has ever attempted to engage in education reform conversations has heard what you just said.... pretty much verbatim.

You are placing teachers on such a high pedestal, that it virtually eliminates the possibility of progress. You are exactly who you expressed yourself to be in the original post... you worship teachers and the teaching profession. Teachers sit at the right hand of Jesus in your world.

There is really no point in trying to have a productive conversation with you on this topic. You have made it clear that any discussions going forward, must be completely "hand off" when it comes to teachers and their responsibilities.

Good luck to you.

---

I have made no such thing clear. But I am going to object to any conversation on education/education reform that begins in a place disrespect for the teaching profession as a whole.

---

Shooter,

The fear from the the "public employees as demigod" crowd became palpable about halfway through Covid, when everyone realized how much better they could do teaching their own kids, how much better their kids did in half the time, how much propaganda was being dispensed to their children, how much wasted time goes on in public schools and how rampant poor teaching is.

It was the confluence of these factors that relaunched the breathless, effusive public virtue signaling about how indispensable public teachers are, by leftists. It's one of the big lies they tell....and it had become patently absurd to parents virtually overnight. Expect to hear it repeated, ad-Goebbels, for the next few years.

Teachers are very well paid, get amazing (early...prior to 60) retirements, summers off, require only a limited education past HS, and are virtually immune to termination. The vast majority now are after the stability, the benefits and the constant fluffing about their 'avocation'. The handful who actually care are great. Unfortunately, they are as rare as hen's teeth.

---

If you think you can do better, great. No teacher likely wants to deal with you or teach your kids anyway.

---

I have done better. A great deal better. It took less time and the results were exceptional.

The teachers didn't like me, you are correct. I sent back assignments with corrections (misspellings, grammatical issues, incorrect math problems, scientific inaccuracies) and asked them to please check their assignments before sending them home. I sent foot noted materials back highlighting several grossly inaccurate statements about history and science. I embarrassed them and they disliked it.

I made sure my kids were aware of each and every lazy mistake or intentional mischaracterization. I taught my kids both sides of issues and explained what propaganda was using the one sided propaganda they received in many cases as an object lesson. The greatest fun was turning environmental propaganda lessons on their heads and sending back well researched projects that debunked the point of the assignment. It meant the only way for the teacher to object was to admit my kids were correct (citations helped) and explain the point was to push their point of view. We actually had a teacher delete my daughter's assignment because it demonstrated the teachers begging the question was wrong.

This taught my kids that teachers are not generally trustworthy as authority figures or final arbiters of truth and they should always seek both sides to determine where truth actually exists. I had a great many examples available to drive home this point. This was the best part of Covid.

---

What you know about life could be poured into a thimble with room for a garnish.

---

He is kind of kicking your ass. You sure that is the best you got?

---

Here's an actual email I sent:


Dear Ms. [redacted],

I hope this finds you well. I'd like to speak to the lesson from today in a respectful, but very candid manner. We watched your video as a family and found several significant inaccuracies. Contrary to your statements, the climate has not warmed 3-4 degrees in the last 20 years. High estimates place it at circa 2 degrees Fahrenheit in the last 100+ years. Additionally, volcanoes and tsunamis are not resultant, in any way, from the climate. Indeed, they are tectonic events by turns, a rupture in the earth's crust and resultant from an undersea earthquake. These are very easily identifiable inaccuracies which I suspect were unintentional on your part.

As the assignment was clearly a one-sided advocacy lesson with little apparent consideration for the complexity of the topic itself, I have worked with my son, [redacted], to respond to your assignment in a way that provides him with a well-rounded view of the topic. The text you will read will make that clear. [Redacted]'s assignment is based in data and demonstrates to him that every topic has more than one rational point of view, catastrophic alarmism is unnecessary and apocalyptic predictions are virtually always wrong particularly as regards an unfalsifiable claim like anthropogenic climate change.

I'll conclude by noting that we, as a family, find using apparent emotional appeals with children in an educational context to be improper. We understand the curriculum is given to you and perhaps not your choice to deliver, but we would welcome future lessons being less emotionally driven.

Kindest Regards,

---

This is great. Did you get a response?

---

Yes. Lip service and taking the way out I provided her. A very cordial 'not my responsibility'.

Good morning,

Thank you for your email.

Firstly, you are right in your assumption that for Social Studies, the curriculum areas are given to us by the [redacted] and are mandatory to teach. As the content is taken directly from this, I have passed on your concerns to our director of Social Studies who will be able to take this matter further.

Additionally, thank you for your feedback regarding the lesson outline. I will ensure that future lessons are more thoroughly researched to ensure that the children have a full view of the topics being covered. In regards to [redacted]'s submitted work, I can tell that his understanding and interpretation of data and facts are comprehensive and mature for his age. Thank you for all of your support in his learning.

Please do contact me with any other questions or queries you may have.
Kind regards,

---

Well, your first complaint should have been that they are teaching climate and geology in Social Studies class.

Malbec said:

---

Well, your first complaint should have been that they are teaching climate and geology in Social Studies class.

---

It's a leftism class, for all intents and purposes. My son also had a class requiring him to talk only about the evils of plastic use. We provided a response on what the world would look like without plastics.

My daughter was told to write a letter to the food delivery driver advocating he use less plastic as if it was his choice). I told her that since the (English) lesson was about persuasive writing, she could pick any other topic she liked to write a persuasive letter on. She picked "Why kids shouldn't have to wear masks". I was very proud of her. The teacher was not and deleted it. Since it was an English assignment, the teacher was forced to admit it had nothing to do with English, but propaganda instead. That didn't go over well.

My children no longer trust teachers. I'm good with that. I don't either.

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I have always seen athletics as a reward for those students that go to school on a regular basis and pass. Now a parent can check the boxes while Jr. sleeps in, does no work in school and gets to go to practice and play.

---

Statistics show on average that home school kids do far better than their public school counterparts on standardized tests and the SAT. They are typically one to two grades ahead of their public school counterparts in what they're learning. So I don't think you have any need to worry about home school kids cutting corners.

---

It strongly depends on which homeschoolers you are adding to your statistics.

A superintendent friend said that the best homeschool setups were mini-private schools where parents pooled kids and talent. But he also got the kids who came back to public schools two years behind.

---

The statistical population is all homeschooled kids. That's how statistics work.

Homeschool kids statistically do much better academically than public school kids.

https://admissionsly.com/homeschooling-statistics/

---

Like I said.

If you exclude the homeschool failures you get gaudy numbers. Nice No True Scotsman fallacy, though.

---

You are the one excluding some homeschool kids. Why are you doing that?

---

No, I want to include all of them, not just the ones who are homeschooled at the time of testing.

You want to exclude the ones who return to public school. Why are you doing that?

---

Support your statement. It's not true, so this should be fun.

---

From your link: "score of those going to public school ". No mention of assessment of former homeschoolers now attending public school. You know, the point I was making.

---

The studies reference all homeschoolers vs all others. That's what's studied. And what you want is a magical third category of those who were once homeschoolers but aren't now because you think a number you don't know, with outcomes you can't know, will generate some different result?

That's not how studies like that work. You want there to be a different result, hope it says something bad about homeschoolers and claim there would be without data. Whose to say the majority didn't spend the last year in Texas public school so they could finish at the top 10% and get a free ride to college?

The studies are accurate. They compare the two populations. Stop trying to corrupt the results with your imagination.

---

Actually that is exactly how you get better info: you use better data.

You cannot claim that homeschooling is better if you exclude those who fail at it and return to public schools.

Every batter hits 1.000 so long as you exclude all the outs.

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I have always seen athletics as a reward for those students that go to school on a regular basis and pass. Now a parent can check the boxes while Jr. sleeps in, does no work in school and gets to go to practice and play.

---

Statistics show on average that home school kids do far better than their public school counterparts on standardized tests and the SAT. They are typically one to two grades ahead of their public school counterparts in what they're learning. So I don't think you have any need to worry about home school kids cutting corners.

---

It strongly depends on which homeschoolers you are adding to your statistics.

A superintendent friend said that the best homeschool setups were mini-private schools where parents pooled kids and talent. But he also got the kids who came back to public schools two years behind.

---

The statistical population is all homeschooled kids. That's how statistics work.

Homeschool kids statistically do much better academically than public school kids.

https://admissionsly.com/homeschooling-statistics/

---

Like I said.

If you exclude the homeschool failures you get gaudy numbers. Nice No True Scotsman fallacy, though.

---

You are the one excluding some homeschool kids. Why are you doing that?

---

No, I want to include all of them, not just the ones who are homeschooled at the time of testing.

You want to exclude the ones who return to public school. Why are you doing that?

---

Support your statement. It's not true, so this should be fun.

---

From your link: "score of those going to public school ". No mention of assessment of former homeschoolers now attending public school. You know, the point I was making.

---

The studies reference all homeschoolers vs all others. That's what's studied. And what you want is a magical third category of those who were once homeschoolers but aren't now because you think a number you don't know, with outcomes you can't know, will generate some different result?

That's not how studies like that work. You want there to be a different result, hope it says something bad about homeschoolers and claim there would be without data. Whose to say the majority didn't spend the last year in Texas public school so they could finish at the top 10% and get a free ride to college?

The studies are accurate. They compare the two populations. Stop trying to corrupt the results with your imagination.

---

Actually that is exactly how you get better info: you use better data.

You cannot claim that homeschooling is better if you exclude those who fail at it and return to public schools.

Every batter hits 1.000 so long as you exclude all the outs.

---

Tell us all that number and show it's statistically significant and we can talk. Convince us the original data didn't account for it and we can talk further.

You are just looking for holes that aren't there. Your assertion here is your burden to prove and you haven't done that. If the data you claim exists actually did, anti-homeschool advocates would publish it. They have not.

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I have always seen athletics as a reward for those students that go to school on a regular basis and pass. Now a parent can check the boxes while Jr. sleeps in, does no work in school and gets to go to practice and play.

---

Statistics show on average that home school kids do far better than their public school counterparts on standardized tests and the SAT. They are typically one to two grades ahead of their public school counterparts in what they're learning. So I don't think you have any need to worry about home school kids cutting corners.

---

It strongly depends on which homeschoolers you are adding to your statistics.

A superintendent friend said that the best homeschool setups were mini-private schools where parents pooled kids and talent. But he also got the kids who came back to public schools two years behind.

---

The statistical population is all homeschooled kids. That's how statistics work.

Homeschool kids statistically do much better academically than public school kids.

https://admissionsly.com/homeschooling-statistics/

---

Like I said.

If you exclude the homeschool failures you get gaudy numbers. Nice No True Scotsman fallacy, though.

---

You are the one excluding some homeschool kids. Why are you doing that?

---

No, I want to include all of them, not just the ones who are homeschooled at the time of testing.

You want to exclude the ones who return to public school. Why are you doing that?

---

Support your statement. It's not true, so this should be fun.

---

From your link: "score of those going to public school ". No mention of assessment of former homeschoolers now attending public school. You know, the point I was making.

---

The studies reference all homeschoolers vs all others. That's what's studied. And what you want is a magical third category of those who were once homeschoolers but aren't now because you think a number you don't know, with outcomes you can't know, will generate some different result?

That's not how studies like that work. You want there to be a different result, hope it says something bad about homeschoolers and claim there would be without data. Whose to say the majority didn't spend the last year in Texas public school so they could finish at the top 10% and get a free ride to college?

The studies are accurate. They compare the two populations. Stop trying to corrupt the results with your imagination.

---

Actually that is exactly how you get better info: you use better data.

You cannot claim that homeschooling is better if you exclude those who fail at it and return to public schools.

Every batter hits 1.000 so long as you exclude all the outs.

---

Tell us all that number and show it's statistically significant and we can talk. Convince us the original data didn't account for it and we can talk further.

You are just looking for holes that aren't there. Your assertion here is your burden to prove and you haven't done that. If the data you claim exists actually did, anti-homeschool advocates would publish it. They have not.

---

Your study, as I already noted, did not distinguish the formerly homeschooled students that were currently in the public student body. Using your study you are absolutely correct that I cannot prove statistical significance. Because your study did not count them.

But my whole point was that your study undercounts homeschool success rates by excluding failures.

All you have to do to say that homeschooling is superior to public education is to say "Homeschooled students who did not return to public schools performed better than public school students as a whole." At least then there would be some semblance of intellectual honesty about the process.

Booray said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Booray said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Booray said:

---

Mothra said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

I don't know the answers to these questions, but I'm curious.
Does No pass, no play rule apply to home school athletes?
Are they required to take Staar tests like public schoolers?
Transferring from one school to another in a different attendance zone is a relatively rigorous process. It requires the 2 schools (one from which student is transferring & one to which student is transferring) to declare whether it is for sports participation.
Will the district EC have jurisdiction over home schoolers like it does over public schoolers?
Grade inflation?
Academic rigor?

---

When the legislature answers these questions, I'll let you know if I'm for or against it.

---

I'm against it because the public school coaches I deal with on a near daily basis are pretty staunchly against it.

This reeks of the type of attack on public school norms we've seen Dan Patrick lead in recent years.

If you don't want to send your kids to public school, fine. But you shouldn't get to demand the benefits of public schooling from outside of that system.

---

So a parent whose taxes go to pay for the public school system shouldn't be able to partake in the the benefits of what their tax dollars support? That doesn't make sense.

There have been laws on the books for years that special needs children who don't attend public school are allowed the benefit of special needs programs. Why shouldn't the same rule apply to sports?

---

No one is saying that they can't participate in sports. The objectors are saying you can't participate in sports without full time enrollment. Its a parent choice to forego both the benefits and the detriments of public school.

Next-I'll take math class but not English? Or-I am not really interested in your rules around lunch time campus access so my kid won't obey them? I disagree with the whole evolution conversation so he will be sitting out the next three weeks?

Again, property taxes are not a user fee. You don't have to pay property taxes to use the schools; not having children does not exempt you.

---

Your post seems to suggest there is a problem with the scenario you described. Since a parents' tax dollars are paying for the schooling, I would have no problem whatsoever with that scenario.

---

You obviously have never run a school. Giving everyone those options would be a nightmare.

And you keep saying that parents' tax dollars are paying for the schooling without addressing the user fee point. Do apartment dwellers or people with huge ag exemptions not get the benefit that other home schoolers do?

---

It doesn't matter how you want to characterize it. That is irrelevant. The bottom line is our taxes pay for it. Period.

I don't agree with you.

---

Its not how "I want to characterize it." It is a how school financing is properly characterized and has been since we wrote the state constitution.

The relevant clause is:

A general diffusion of knowledge being essential to the preservation of the liberties and rights of the people, it shall be the duty of the Legislature of the State to establish and make suitable provision for the support and maintenance of an efficient system of public free schools.

The Texas Supreme Court has repeatedly made clear that the phrase means that the taxing plan used to support public schools must be based on the benefit to society as a whole, not the rights of parents of school age children.


Your argument that payment of property taxes gives a right of use as the user sees fit falls apart when the inverse is asked: people who do not pay property taxes would then have no right of use. Or the corollary- childless widows being exempt from property tax. Neither was intended and neither is not how we operate.

So disagree with me-but explain how my logic is incorrect or not a proper reading of the state constitution.

---

Honestly, we are arguing semantics. That general clause in no way contradicts my position or the practical effect of what I have argued.

Bottom line is people that pay taxes to support a public school system should receive some of the benefits of that system. It seems fair to me. I know it does not to you. We disagree strongly on that point.

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I have always seen athletics as a reward for those students that go to school on a regular basis and pass. Now a parent can check the boxes while Jr. sleeps in, does no work in school and gets to go to practice and play.

---

Statistics show on average that home school kids do far better than their public school counterparts on standardized tests and the SAT. They are typically one to two grades ahead of their public school counterparts in what they're learning. So I don't think you have any need to worry about home school kids cutting corners.

---

It strongly depends on which homeschoolers you are adding to your statistics.

A superintendent friend said that the best homeschool setups were mini-private schools where parents pooled kids and talent. But he also got the kids who came back to public schools two years behind.

---

The statistical population is all homeschooled kids. That's how statistics work.

Homeschool kids statistically do much better academically than public school kids.

https://admissionsly.com/homeschooling-statistics/

---

Like I said.

If you exclude the homeschool failures you get gaudy numbers. Nice No True Scotsman fallacy, though.

---

You are the one excluding some homeschool kids. Why are you doing that?

---

No, I want to include all of them, not just the ones who are homeschooled at the time of testing.

You want to exclude the ones who return to public school. Why are you doing that?

---

Support your statement. It's not true, so this should be fun.

---

From your link: "score of those going to public school ". No mention of assessment of former homeschoolers now attending public school. You know, the point I was making.

---

The studies reference all homeschoolers vs all others. That's what's studied. And what you want is a magical third category of those who were once homeschoolers but aren't now because you think a number you don't know, with outcomes you can't know, will generate some different result?

That's not how studies like that work. You want there to be a different result, hope it says something bad about homeschoolers and claim there would be without data. Whose to say the majority didn't spend the last year in Texas public school so they could finish at the top 10% and get a free ride to college?

The studies are accurate. They compare the two populations. Stop trying to corrupt the results with your imagination.

---

Actually that is exactly how you get better info: you use better data.

You cannot claim that homeschooling is better if you exclude those who fail at it and return to public schools.

Every batter hits 1.000 so long as you exclude all the outs.

---

Tell us all that number and show it's statistically significant and we can talk. Convince us the original data didn't account for it and we can talk further.

You are just looking for holes that aren't there. Your assertion here is your burden to prove and you haven't done that. If the data you claim exists actually did, anti-homeschool advocates would publish it. They have not.

---

Your study, as I already noted, did not distinguish the formerly homeschooled students that were currently in the public student body. Using your study you are absolutely correct that I cannot prove statistical significance. Because your study did not count them.

But my whole point was that your study undercounts homeschool success rates by excluding failures.

All you have to do to say that homeschooling is superior to public education is to say "Homeschooled students who did not return to public schools performed better than public school students as a whole." At least then there would be some semblance of intellectual honesty about the process.

---

I have personally known a few families who have left homeschooling and returned to classroom settings (public or private). I have not known of any families which rejoined the classroom, and were behind their peers. I'm sure that it happens somewhere in some place, but all of the families I have personally known, have left homeschooling because they needed to return to the workplace.

If you truly believe that this is a significant number, then you really need to provide evidence to backup your claim. Can you please provide the data to support this claim?

I can tell you right now that there is a possibility for your Toyota vehicle to spontaneously explode. Your Toyota contains flammable fuels, dangerous chemicals, and a battery with the capacity to be very volatile. If I don't provide you with the data to show that these explosions actually occur... then what is the point of my observations on the possibilities? Nobody can deny the existence of dangerous items inside your Toyota, or the potential disasters they represent... but without the real world data... it's just an unnecessary fear.
Likewise, it is possible that kids are failing in homeschool, returning to public schools, and bringing down the numbers for those public schools. Is that actually happening in significant numbers? I've never personally seen it, but I can't deny the possibility that it could happen and I welcome the opportunity to review your data which shows that it is happening. Without that data, it becomes nothing more than a useless "possibility"... much like the exploding Toyotas.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

"There have been laws on the books for years that special needs children who don't attend public school are allowed the benefit of special needs programs. Why shouldn't the same rule apply to sports?"


Amazing that anyone that knows anything about SPED would say such a thing. Homeschooled SPED kids can still receive the support of the local schools SPED program. What does that have to do with sports?

---

Redneck, when you're replying to a particular poster's post, it might be helpful if you actually pushed the "Reply" or "Quote" button so they can know you responded. It's just a lot easier that way.

Clearly you either didn't read or didn't understand what I said. My point was exactly what you said: Homeschooled SPED kids can still receive the support of the local schools SPED program. My son was one of those SPED kids. The same reasoning should apply to sports for obvious reasons.

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I have always seen athletics as a reward for those students that go to school on a regular basis and pass. Now a parent can check the boxes while Jr. sleeps in, does no work in school and gets to go to practice and play.

---

Statistics show on average that home school kids do far better than their public school counterparts on standardized tests and the SAT. They are typically one to two grades ahead of their public school counterparts in what they're learning. So I don't think you have any need to worry about home school kids cutting corners.

---

It strongly depends on which homeschoolers you are adding to your statistics.

A superintendent friend said that the best homeschool setups were mini-private schools where parents pooled kids and talent. But he also got the kids who came back to public schools two years behind.

---

The statistical population is all homeschooled kids. That's how statistics work.

Homeschool kids statistically do much better academically than public school kids.

https://admissionsly.com/homeschooling-statistics/

---

Like I said.

If you exclude the homeschool failures you get gaudy numbers. Nice No True Scotsman fallacy, though.

---

You are the one excluding some homeschool kids. Why are you doing that?

---

No, I want to include all of them, not just the ones who are homeschooled at the time of testing.

You want to exclude the ones who return to public school. Why are you doing that?

---

Support your statement. It's not true, so this should be fun.

---

From your link: "score of those going to public school ". No mention of assessment of former homeschoolers now attending public school. You know, the point I was making.

---

The studies reference all homeschoolers vs all others. That's what's studied. And what you want is a magical third category of those who were once homeschoolers but aren't now because you think a number you don't know, with outcomes you can't know, will generate some different result?

That's not how studies like that work. You want there to be a different result, hope it says something bad about homeschoolers and claim there would be without data. Whose to say the majority didn't spend the last year in Texas public school so they could finish at the top 10% and get a free ride to college?

The studies are accurate. They compare the two populations. Stop trying to corrupt the results with your imagination.

---

Actually that is exactly how you get better info: you use better data.

You cannot claim that homeschooling is better if you exclude those who fail at it and return to public schools.

Every batter hits 1.000 so long as you exclude all the outs.

---

Tell us all that number and show it's statistically significant and we can talk. Convince us the original data didn't account for it and we can talk further.

You are just looking for holes that aren't there. Your assertion here is your burden to prove and you haven't done that. If the data you claim exists actually did, anti-homeschool advocates would publish it. They have not.

---

Your study, as I already noted, did not distinguish the formerly homeschooled students that were currently in the public student body. Using your study you are absolutely correct that I cannot prove statistical significance. Because your study did not count them.

But my whole point was that your study undercounts homeschool success rates by excluding failures.

All you have to do to say that homeschooling is superior to public education is to say "Homeschooled students who did not return to public schools performed better than public school students as a whole." At least then there would be some semblance of intellectual honesty about the process.

---

If you disagree with the study, provide a counter study or conduct your own. Your useless conjecture is just that; useless.

I'll make the claim that homeschool kids who go back to public schools are doing so to take advantage of the public credential to get into universities. They are so incredibly advanced compared to their public school counter parts that they actually bring up the public school test scores, meaning the scores would be much lower without them.

Prove me wrong. My assertion is exactly as valid as yours.

Or...

The existing data is the best and most accurate indicator of homeschool success and you should give up bashing homeschool.

ShooterTX said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I have always seen athletics as a reward for those students that go to school on a regular basis and pass. Now a parent can check the boxes while Jr. sleeps in, does no work in school and gets to go to practice and play.

---

Statistics show on average that home school kids do far better than their public school counterparts on standardized tests and the SAT. They are typically one to two grades ahead of their public school counterparts in what they're learning. So I don't think you have any need to worry about home school kids cutting corners.

---

It strongly depends on which homeschoolers you are adding to your statistics.

A superintendent friend said that the best homeschool setups were mini-private schools where parents pooled kids and talent. But he also got the kids who came back to public schools two years behind.

---

The statistical population is all homeschooled kids. That's how statistics work.

Homeschool kids statistically do much better academically than public school kids.

https://admissionsly.com/homeschooling-statistics/

---

Like I said.

If you exclude the homeschool failures you get gaudy numbers. Nice No True Scotsman fallacy, though.

---

You are the one excluding some homeschool kids. Why are you doing that?

---

No, I want to include all of them, not just the ones who are homeschooled at the time of testing.

You want to exclude the ones who return to public school. Why are you doing that?

---

Support your statement. It's not true, so this should be fun.

---

From your link: "score of those going to public school ". No mention of assessment of former homeschoolers now attending public school. You know, the point I was making.

---

The studies reference all homeschoolers vs all others. That's what's studied. And what you want is a magical third category of those who were once homeschoolers but aren't now because you think a number you don't know, with outcomes you can't know, will generate some different result?

That's not how studies like that work. You want there to be a different result, hope it says something bad about homeschoolers and claim there would be without data. Whose to say the majority didn't spend the last year in Texas public school so they could finish at the top 10% and get a free ride to college?

The studies are accurate. They compare the two populations. Stop trying to corrupt the results with your imagination.

---

Actually that is exactly how you get better info: you use better data.

You cannot claim that homeschooling is better if you exclude those who fail at it and return to public schools.

Every batter hits 1.000 so long as you exclude all the outs.

---

Tell us all that number and show it's statistically significant and we can talk. Convince us the original data didn't account for it and we can talk further.

You are just looking for holes that aren't there. Your assertion here is your burden to prove and you haven't done that. If the data you claim exists actually did, anti-homeschool advocates would publish it. They have not.

---

Your study, as I already noted, did not distinguish the formerly homeschooled students that were currently in the public student body. Using your study you are absolutely correct that I cannot prove statistical significance. Because your study did not count them.

But my whole point was that your study undercounts homeschool success rates by excluding failures.

All you have to do to say that homeschooling is superior to public education is to say "Homeschooled students who did not return to public schools performed better than public school students as a whole." At least then there would be some semblance of intellectual honesty about the process.

---

I have personally known a few families who have left homeschooling and returned to classroom settings (public or private). I have not known of any families which rejoined the classroom, and were behind their peers. I'm sure that it happens somewhere in some place, but all of the families I have personally known, have left homeschooling because they needed to return to the workplace.

If you truly believe that this is a significant number, then you really need to provide evidence to backup your claim. Can you please provide the data to support this claim?

I can tell you right now that there is a possibility for your Toyota vehicle to spontaneously explode. Your Toyota contains flammable fuels, dangerous chemicals, and a battery with the capacity to be very volatile. If I don't provide you with the data to show that these explosions actually occur... then what is the point of my observations on the possibilities? Nobody can deny the existence of dangerous items inside your Toyota, or the potential disasters they represent... but without the real world data... it's just an unnecessary fear.
Likewise, it is possible that kids are failing in homeschool, returning to public schools, and bringing down the numbers for those public schools. Is that actually happening in significant numbers? I've never personally seen it, but I can't deny the possibility that it could happen and I welcome the opportunity to review your data which shows that it is happening. Without that data, it becomes nothing more than a useless "possibility"... much like the exploding Toyotas.

---

Toyota and the insurance industry run studies to look for that information. As I have been saying, the study relied on by Canon excludes the data re: explosions.

So far as I know there are no studies that account for the population of returning homeschooled students. But I never claimed there was such a study, just the anecdotal evidence of a superintendent. He has access to better data than I do, but not study data. I don't think "formerly homeschooled" are even tracked as such except on the personal knowledge of teachers and administrators; it certainly wasn't on my campus/district. Without such tracking I choose to discount studies such as the one Canon relies on for being short on data.

Teachers are everything the right hates -- intellectual elitism and lowly organized labor -- in one maddening package. The Republican brain can't decide whether to feel threatened or superior, so it just starts throwing sparks. Quite a show.

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I have always seen athletics as a reward for those students that go to school on a regular basis and pass. Now a parent can check the boxes while Jr. sleeps in, does no work in school and gets to go to practice and play.

---

Statistics show on average that home school kids do far better than their public school counterparts on standardized tests and the SAT. They are typically one to two grades ahead of their public school counterparts in what they're learning. So I don't think you have any need to worry about home school kids cutting corners.

---

It strongly depends on which homeschoolers you are adding to your statistics.

A superintendent friend said that the best homeschool setups were mini-private schools where parents pooled kids and talent. But he also got the kids who came back to public schools two years behind.

---

The statistical population is all homeschooled kids. That's how statistics work.

Homeschool kids statistically do much better academically than public school kids.

https://admissionsly.com/homeschooling-statistics/

---

Like I said.

If you exclude the homeschool failures you get gaudy numbers. Nice No True Scotsman fallacy, though.

---

You are the one excluding some homeschool kids. Why are you doing that?

---

No, I want to include all of them, not just the ones who are homeschooled at the time of testing.

You want to exclude the ones who return to public school. Why are you doing that?

---

Support your statement. It's not true, so this should be fun.

---

From your link: "score of those going to public school ". No mention of assessment of former homeschoolers now attending public school. You know, the point I was making.

---

The studies reference all homeschoolers vs all others. That's what's studied. And what you want is a magical third category of those who were once homeschoolers but aren't now because you think a number you don't know, with outcomes you can't know, will generate some different result?

That's not how studies like that work. You want there to be a different result, hope it says something bad about homeschoolers and claim there would be without data. Whose to say the majority didn't spend the last year in Texas public school so they could finish at the top 10% and get a free ride to college?

The studies are accurate. They compare the two populations. Stop trying to corrupt the results with your imagination.

---

Actually that is exactly how you get better info: you use better data.

You cannot claim that homeschooling is better if you exclude those who fail at it and return to public schools.

Every batter hits 1.000 so long as you exclude all the outs.

---

Tell us all that number and show it's statistically significant and we can talk. Convince us the original data didn't account for it and we can talk further.

You are just looking for holes that aren't there. Your assertion here is your burden to prove and you haven't done that. If the data you claim exists actually did, anti-homeschool advocates would publish it. They have not.

---

Your study, as I already noted, did not distinguish the formerly homeschooled students that were currently in the public student body. Using your study you are absolutely correct that I cannot prove statistical significance. Because your study did not count them.

But my whole point was that your study undercounts homeschool success rates by excluding failures.

All you have to do to say that homeschooling is superior to public education is to say "Homeschooled students who did not return to public schools performed better than public school students as a whole." At least then there would be some semblance of intellectual honesty about the process.

---

The existing data is the best and most accurate indicator of homeschool success and you should give up bashing homeschool.

---

Just because what we have is all we have doesn't make it accurate. Omitting a population that is crucial to the determination sought is whack.

You should give up lying about my posts. I have advocated for homeschooling many times on these boards.

Canon said:

---

Malbec said:

---

Well, your first complaint should have been that they are teaching climate and geology in Social Studies class.

---

It's a leftism class, for all intents and purposes. My son also had a class requiring him to talk only about the evils of plastic use. We provided a response on what the world would look like without plastics.

My daughter was told to write a letter to the food delivery driver advocating he use less plastic as if it was his choice). I told her that since the (English) lesson was about persuasive writing, she could pick any other topic she liked to write a persuasive letter on. She picked "Why kids shouldn't have to wear masks". I was very proud of her. The teacher was not and deleted it. Since it was an English assignment, the teacher was forced to admit it had nothing to do with English, but propaganda instead. That didn't go over well.

My children no longer trust teachers. I'm good with that. I don't either.

---

What schools do your children attend? I am familiar with curriculum at a good many districts and private schools. I don't recognize any of this.

BTW, while I would have worded the sample email differently, it was appropriate (assuming that the lesson was as you represented). The response from the teacher was also appropriate. I don't get why that response would indicate that the teacher doesn't care about her students.

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

Malbec said:

---

Well, your first complaint should have been that they are teaching climate and geology in Social Studies class.

---

It's a leftism class, for all intents and purposes. My son also had a class requiring him to talk only about the evils of plastic use. We provided a response on what the world would look like without plastics.

My daughter was told to write a letter to the food delivery driver advocating he use less plastic as if it was his choice). I told her that since the (English) lesson was about persuasive writing, she could pick any other topic she liked to write a persuasive letter on. She picked "Why kids shouldn't have to wear masks". I was very proud of her. The teacher was not and deleted it. Since it was an English assignment, the teacher was forced to admit it had nothing to do with English, but propaganda instead. That didn't go over well.

My children no longer trust teachers. I'm good with that. I don't either.

---

What schools do your children attend? I am familiar with curriculum at a good many districts and private schools. I don't recognize any of this.

BTW, while I would have worded the sample email differently, it was appropriate (assuming that the lesson was as you represented). The response from the teacher was also appropriate. I don't get why that response would indicate that the teacher doesn't care about her students.

---

He's trying to teach them the importance of thinking critically and learning both sides of the issue, or in other words, that teachers = bad.

Mothra said:

---

Honestly, we are arguing semantics. That general clause in no way contradicts my position or the practical effect of what I have argued.

Bottom line is people that pay taxes to support a public school system should receive some of the benefits of that system. It seems fair to me. I know it does not to you. We disagree strongly on that point.

---

Isn't that what everyone supposedly gets; a better educated populace that is a benefit to all? In theory? So that even if you don't "use" the public school system that your taxes support, its existence benefits everyone?

Mothra said:

---

Booray said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Booray said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Booray said:

---

Mothra said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

I don't know the answers to these questions, but I'm curious.
Does No pass, no play rule apply to home school athletes?
Are they required to take Staar tests like public schoolers?
Transferring from one school to another in a different attendance zone is a relatively rigorous process. It requires the 2 schools (one from which student is transferring & one to which student is transferring) to declare whether it is for sports participation.
Will the district EC have jurisdiction over home schoolers like it does over public schoolers?
Grade inflation?
Academic rigor?

---

When the legislature answers these questions, I'll let you know if I'm for or against it.

---

I'm against it because the public school coaches I deal with on a near daily basis are pretty staunchly against it.

This reeks of the type of attack on public school norms we've seen Dan Patrick lead in recent years.

If you don't want to send your kids to public school, fine. But you shouldn't get to demand the benefits of public schooling from outside of that system.

---

So a parent whose taxes go to pay for the public school system shouldn't be able to partake in the the benefits of what their tax dollars support? That doesn't make sense.

There have been laws on the books for years that special needs children who don't attend public school are allowed the benefit of special needs programs. Why shouldn't the same rule apply to sports?

---

No one is saying that they can't participate in sports. The objectors are saying you can't participate in sports without full time enrollment. Its a parent choice to forego both the benefits and the detriments of public school.

Next-I'll take math class but not English? Or-I am not really interested in your rules around lunch time campus access so my kid won't obey them? I disagree with the whole evolution conversation so he will be sitting out the next three weeks?

Again, property taxes are not a user fee. You don't have to pay property taxes to use the schools; not having children does not exempt you.

---

Your post seems to suggest there is a problem with the scenario you described. Since a parents' tax dollars are paying for the schooling, I would have no problem whatsoever with that scenario.

---

You obviously have never run a school. Giving everyone those options would be a nightmare.

And you keep saying that parents' tax dollars are paying for the schooling without addressing the user fee point. Do apartment dwellers or people with huge ag exemptions not get the benefit that other home schoolers do?

---

It doesn't matter how you want to characterize it. That is irrelevant. The bottom line is our taxes pay for it. Period.

I don't agree with you.

---

Its not how "I want to characterize it." It is a how school financing is properly characterized and has been since we wrote the state constitution.

The relevant clause is:

A general diffusion of knowledge being essential to the preservation of the liberties and rights of the people, it shall be the duty of the Legislature of the State to establish and make suitable provision for the support and maintenance of an efficient system of public free schools.

The Texas Supreme Court has repeatedly made clear that the phrase means that the taxing plan used to support public schools must be based on the benefit to society as a whole, not the rights of parents of school age children.


Your argument that payment of property taxes gives a right of use as the user sees fit falls apart when the inverse is asked: people who do not pay property taxes would then have no right of use. Or the corollary- childless widows being exempt from property tax. Neither was intended and neither is not how we operate.

So disagree with me-but explain how my logic is incorrect or not a proper reading of the state constitution.

---

Honestly, we are arguing semantics. That general clause in no way contradicts my position or the practical effect of what I have argued.

Bottom line is people that pay taxes to support a public school system should receive some of the benefits of that system. It seems fair to me. I know it does not to you. We disagree strongly on that point.

---

No resolution, but the points remain: (1) everyone does receive the benefit of an educated citizenry and (2) everyone does receive the benefit of having the option of free schooling for their children.

The precise question is whether the fact of paying property taxes conveys the right to self design the second benefit. I say it should not because that is an unnecessary burden on the system.

Malbec said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Honestly, we are arguing semantics. That general clause in no way contradicts my position or the practical effect of what I have argued.

Bottom line is people that pay taxes to support a public school system should receive some of the benefits of that system. It seems fair to me. I know it does not to you. We disagree strongly on that point.

---

Isn't that what everyone supposedly gets; a better educated populace that is a benefit to all? In theory? So that even if you don't "use" the public school system that your taxes support, its existence benefits everyone?

---

That is, indeed, the idea. It's the same when your tax money goes to repair roads you never drive on or maintain parks you never visit.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

Malbec said:

---

Well, your first complaint should have been that they are teaching climate and geology in Social Studies class.

---

It's a leftism class, for all intents and purposes. My son also had a class requiring him to talk only about the evils of plastic use. We provided a response on what the world would look like without plastics.

My daughter was told to write a letter to the food delivery driver advocating he use less plastic as if it was his choice). I told her that since the (English) lesson was about persuasive writing, she could pick any other topic she liked to write a persuasive letter on. She picked "Why kids shouldn't have to wear masks". I was very proud of her. The teacher was not and deleted it. Since it was an English assignment, the teacher was forced to admit it had nothing to do with English, but propaganda instead. That didn't go over well.

My children no longer trust teachers. I'm good with that. I don't either.

---

What schools do your children attend? I am familiar with curriculum at a good many districts and private schools. I don't recognize any of this.

BTW, while I would have worded the sample email differently, it was appropriate (assuming that the lesson was as you represented). The response from the teacher was also appropriate. I don't get why that response would indicate that the teacher doesn't care about her students.

---

He's trying to teach them the importance of thinking critically and learning both sides of the issue, or in other words, that teachers = bad.

---

Bad teachers = Bad

Given your recent history of posting, your lack of understanding is both forgivable and expected.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Teachers are everything the right hates -- intellectual elitism and lowly organized labor -- in one maddening package. The Republican brain can't decide whether to feel threatened or superior, so it just starts throwing sparks. Quite a show.

---

Thanks for finally confirming you are not a Republican, much less a Conservative, Sam.

Canon said:

---

Malbec said:

---

Well, your first complaint should have been that they are teaching climate and geology in Social Studies class.

---

It's a leftism class, for all intents and purposes. My son also had a class requiring him to talk only about the evils of plastic use. We provided a response on what the world would look like without plastics.

My daughter was told to write a letter to the food delivery driver advocating he use less plastic as if it was his choice). I told her that since the (English) lesson was about persuasive writing, she could pick any other topic she liked to write a persuasive letter on. She picked "Why kids shouldn't have to wear masks". I was very proud of her. The teacher was not and deleted it. Since it was an English assignment, the teacher was forced to admit it had nothing to do with English, but propaganda instead. That didn't go over well.

My children no longer trust teachers. I'm good with that. I don't either.

---

Moral of this story:

Parroting stupid propaganda promoted by a schoolteacher is bad.

Parroting stupid propaganda promoted by your parents is good.

J.B.Katz said:

---

Canon said:

---

Malbec said:

---

Well, your first complaint should have been that they are teaching climate and geology in Social Studies class.

---

It's a leftism class, for all intents and purposes. My son also had a class requiring him to talk only about the evils of plastic use. We provided a response on what the world would look like without plastics.

My daughter was told to write a letter to the food delivery driver advocating he use less plastic as if it was his choice). I told her that since the (English) lesson was about persuasive writing, she could pick any other topic she liked to write a persuasive letter on. She picked "Why kids shouldn't have to wear masks". I was very proud of her. The teacher was not and deleted it. Since it was an English assignment, the teacher was forced to admit it had nothing to do with English, but propaganda instead. That didn't go over well.

My children no longer trust teachers. I'm good with that. I don't either.

---

Moral of this story:

Parroting stupid propaganda promoted by a schoolteacher is bad.

Parroting stupid propaganda promoted by your parents is good.

---

You are not very well acquainted with morals. You should reconsider commenting on the moral of anything.

quash said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Canon said:

---

quash said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I have always seen athletics as a reward for those students that go to school on a regular basis and pass. Now a parent can check the boxes while Jr. sleeps in, does no work in school and gets to go to practice and play.

---

Statistics show on average that home school kids do far better than their public school counterparts on standardized tests and the SAT. They are typically one to two grades ahead of their public school counterparts in what they're learning. So I don't think you have any need to worry about home school kids cutting corners.

---

It strongly depends on which homeschoolers you are adding to your statistics.

A superintendent friend said that the best homeschool setups were mini-private schools where parents pooled kids and talent. But he also got the kids who came back to public schools two years behind.

---

The statistical population is all homeschooled kids. That's how statistics work.

Homeschool kids statistically do much better academically than public school kids.

https://admissionsly.com/homeschooling-statistics/

---

Like I said.

If you exclude the homeschool failures you get gaudy numbers. Nice No True Scotsman fallacy, though.

---

You are the one excluding some homeschool kids. Why are you doing that?

---

No, I want to include all of them, not just the ones who are homeschooled at the time of testing.

You want to exclude the ones who return to public school. Why are you doing that?

---

Support your statement. It's not true, so this should be fun.

---

From your link: "score of those going to public school ". No mention of assessment of former homeschoolers now attending public school. You know, the point I was making.

---

The studies reference all homeschoolers vs all others. That's what's studied. And what you want is a magical third category of those who were once homeschoolers but aren't now because you think a number you don't know, with outcomes you can't know, will generate some different result?

That's not how studies like that work. You want there to be a different result, hope it says something bad about homeschoolers and claim there would be without data. Whose to say the majority didn't spend the last year in Texas public school so they could finish at the top 10% and get a free ride to college?

The studies are accurate. They compare the two populations. Stop trying to corrupt the results with your imagination.

---

Actually that is exactly how you get better info: you use better data.

You cannot claim that homeschooling is better if you exclude those who fail at it and return to public schools.

Every batter hits 1.000 so long as you exclude all the outs.

---

Tell us all that number and show it's statistically significant and we can talk. Convince us the original data didn't account for it and we can talk further.

You are just looking for holes that aren't there. Your assertion here is your burden to prove and you haven't done that. If the data you claim exists actually did, anti-homeschool advocates would publish it. They have not.

---

Your study, as I already noted, did not distinguish the formerly homeschooled students that were currently in the public student body. Using your study you are absolutely correct that I cannot prove statistical significance. Because your study did not count them.

But my whole point was that your study undercounts homeschool success rates by excluding failures.

All you have to do to say that homeschooling is superior to public education is to say "Homeschooled students who did not return to public schools performed better than public school students as a whole." At least then there would be some semblance of intellectual honesty about the process.

---

I have personally known a few families who have left homeschooling and returned to classroom settings (public or private). I have not known of any families which rejoined the classroom, and were behind their peers. I'm sure that it happens somewhere in some place, but all of the families I have personally known, have left homeschooling because they needed to return to the workplace.

If you truly believe that this is a significant number, then you really need to provide evidence to backup your claim. Can you please provide the data to support this claim?

I can tell you right now that there is a possibility for your Toyota vehicle to spontaneously explode. Your Toyota contains flammable fuels, dangerous chemicals, and a battery with the capacity to be very volatile. If I don't provide you with the data to show that these explosions actually occur... then what is the point of my observations on the possibilities? Nobody can deny the existence of dangerous items inside your Toyota, or the potential disasters they represent... but without the real world data... it's just an unnecessary fear.
Likewise, it is possible that kids are failing in homeschool, returning to public schools, and bringing down the numbers for those public schools. Is that actually happening in significant numbers? I've never personally seen it, but I can't deny the possibility that it could happen and I welcome the opportunity to review your data which shows that it is happening. Without that data, it becomes nothing more than a useless "possibility"... much like the exploding Toyotas.

---

Toyota and the insurance industry run studies to look for that information. As I have been saying, the study relied on by Canon excludes the data re: explosions.

So far as I know there are no studies that account for the population of returning homeschooled students. But I never claimed there was such a study, just the anecdotal evidence of a superintendent. He has access to better data than I do, but not study data. I don't think "formerly homeschooled" are even tracked as such except on the personal knowledge of teachers and administrators; it certainly wasn't on my campus/district. Without such tracking I choose to discount studies such as the one Canon relies on for being short on data.

---

Are you saying that you will discount any and all data concerning homeschool, until the this subset of data is accurately tracked??
Do you hold public schools to the same standards? Do you discount all public school data, unless public school provide the number of public school students who have left public school for homeschooling? or have left public school for private school? or have left public school for prison?

You have created a supposed subset, based upon anecdotal information, and now demand that your opposition prove or disprove your theories for you?? That is simply NOT how this works.
Data is collected from all available students, and presented for analyzation. If you want your additional data, then you need to go and collect it yourself. It is on YOU to prove that the data is flawed, insufficient or mis-interpreted. You cannot make a baseless claim, and then expect logical people to discount all collected data because of your baseless theory.

And the idea that there is a significant number of "failed homeschoolers" out there... and yet there is NO study which tracks this significant subset of homeschool students... really?? With all of the education studies, and all the money invested in education, do you honestly think that such a significant piece of data would go unrecorded by public school advocates or anti-homeschool zealots?

No, the real probability is that the scenario you describe is rare enough to be statistically insignificant. So any real study of the scenario would only serve to provide data that would refute the anecdotal & unverifiable stories of public school teachers & advocates. Therefore it is better to lob the grenade of anecdotal stories, and never actually expend time & effort to backup those stories. Better to force the "innocent" to prove their "innocence", and just fill the void with baseless accusations.

Booray said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Canon said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

One of my least favorite parts of the pandemic was listening to a bunch fat, bloated slobs with meaningless jobs...

---

at this point I thought you were going to engage in some teacher bashing.

I was so relieved that it quickly shifted into teacher-sainthood and public school worship... that was a close one!

---

And here's one now.

So teachers have meaningless jobs now? I could see how someone who ignorantly believes every day at a public school is an episode of Law and Order might think that.

---

I was attempting a bit of humor.

I think it is ironic that you laud teaching so much, and demean the everyday jobs of the parents to such an amazing degree. You characterize anyone who complains about teachers as a "fat, bloated slob with a meaningless job"... amazing. The irony that you attacked me for my joke, is just so rich!

Being a teacher is a job. It is not sainthood or only slightly less important than being the actual Messiah... it's just another job. Sorry to bring the reality, but it's true.

Teacher are replaceable.. just like most jobs and most workers in the world today.. they are not irreplaceable. It's not a particularly easy job, but that doesn't makes it unique. Being a framer in the middle of July in Texas is also an amazingly tough job... but that doesn't make it a saintly profession.

---

Teachers and farmers both have jobs that are vitally important to the health of a society and neither receives the thanks they deserve for it -- in respect or monetary compensation. The inverse is true of most other occupations.

Teaching is, indeed, a job. But to all good teachers I've ever met, including my wife, mother, sister and cousin, it's also a calling. They make ****ty salaries, deal with troubled and misbehaving kids, put up with endless **** from parents, work silly hours and spend their own money on supplies -- only to be disrespected constantly. And why do they do it? Not because they couldn't find other jobs. They do it because they care about the education and well-being of the kids they teach -- even when their parents don't.

And notice, I don't make any distinction between public and private school teachers. The only real difference I've found is that private school teachers are paid considerably less for some reason.

---

yeah... this is pretty much boilerplate stuff. Anyone who has ever attempted to engage in education reform conversations has heard what you just said.... pretty much verbatim.

You are placing teachers on such a high pedestal, that it virtually eliminates the possibility of progress. You are exactly who you expressed yourself to be in the original post... you worship teachers and the teaching profession. Teachers sit at the right hand of Jesus in your world.

There is really no point in trying to have a productive conversation with you on this topic. You have made it clear that any discussions going forward, must be completely "hand off" when it comes to teachers and their responsibilities.

Good luck to you.

---

I have made no such thing clear. But I am going to object to any conversation on education/education reform that begins in a place disrespect for the teaching profession as a whole.

---

Shooter,

The fear from the the "public employees as demigod" crowd became palpable about halfway through Covid, when everyone realized how much better they could do teaching their own kids, how much better their kids did in half the time, how much propaganda was being dispensed to their children, how much wasted time goes on in public schools and how rampant poor teaching is.

It was the confluence of these factors that relaunched the breathless, effusive public virtue signaling about how indispensable public teachers are, by leftists. It's one of the big lies they tell....and it had become patently absurd to parents virtually overnight. Expect to hear it repeated, ad-Goebbels, for the next few years.

Teachers are very well paid, get amazing (early...prior to 60) retirements, summers off, require only a limited education past HS, and are virtually immune to termination. The vast majority now are after the stability, the benefits and the constant fluffing about their 'avocation'. The handful who actually care are great. Unfortunately, they are as rare as hen's teeth.

---

If you think you can do better, great. No teacher likely wants to deal with you or teach your kids anyway.

---

I have done better. A great deal better. It took less time and the results were exceptional.

The teachers didn't like me, you are correct. I sent back assignments with corrections (misspellings, grammatical issues, incorrect math problems, scientific inaccuracies) and asked them to please check their assignments before sending them home. I sent foot noted materials back highlighting several grossly inaccurate statements about history and science. I embarrassed them and they disliked it.

I made sure my kids were aware of each and every lazy mistake or intentional mischaracterization. I taught my kids both sides of issues and explained what propaganda was using the one sided propaganda they received in many cases as an object lesson. The greatest fun was turning environmental propaganda lessons on their heads and sending back well researched projects that debunked the point of the assignment. It meant the only way for the teacher to object was to admit my kids were correct (citations helped) and explain the point was to push their point of view. We actually had a teacher delete my daughter's assignment because it demonstrated the teachers begging the question was wrong.

This taught my kids that teachers are not generally trustworthy as authority figures or final arbiters of truth and they should always seek both sides to determine where truth actually exists. I had a great many examples available to drive home this point. This was the best part of Covid.

---

What you know about life could be poured into a thimble with room for a garnish.

---

He is kind of kicking your ass. You sure that is the best you got?

---

The scores from the Romanian judge seem a bit off.

---

Good bull is good bull. Well played.