You can't. Humans are inherently tribal beings. But if people are willing and able to acknowledge their biases going in -- and understand the pull their tribal affiliations have on them -- it greatly improves our odds of having a good faith discussion and arriving at more objective and thoughtful conclusions.Doc Holliday said:How would one stop tribalism?bear2be2 said:It doesn't make me mad. I have no affiliation with or obligation to defend the Democratic Party.Mothra said:Perhaps to some extent, but the Democrat Party is actively engaged in separating us by race and ethnicity right now.bear2be2 said:Are you really arguing that only one of our parties actively exploits its members' tribalism? Is that irony lost on you?Mothra said:What's funny about these racist tweets is many of us evil white peoples' ancestors had nothing to do with slavery. Mine came over on a boat from Germany in 1882. But even if they had participated in it, how are people 150 years and generations removed from a heinous practice responsible for the actions of our great, great, great, great, grandparents? And what about those white people whose ancestors fought and died to abolish the practice?Doc Holliday said:The holiday and celebrating the end of slavery is awesome IMO. The more federal holidays the better!Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Completely appropriate to commemorate one of the most significant events in our country's history via federal holiday.
My concern though is rather than using this day to unify the country on what it did right, it will be yet another tool of the left to stoke perpetual resentment and division over what it did wrong.
How is it that celebrating the end of slavery will stoke resentment? Can you explain that one to me?
What's not awesome is the expansion of critical race theory and modern anti white rhetoric based on horrors of the past like slavery. Academia and media will surely use this holiday as a backboard to do so and be emboldened by it.
It's not the holiday, it's how we're interpreting it.… white people having a day off for Juneteenth…. Makes me angry…
— Crab Leg Luxury. (@ScottieBeam) June 16, 2021Considering it only exists because they stole our people. Y’all get to reap the fruit of your crimes and get to take a day off where you don’t have to think critically of how blood paved the road to your criminal success? pic.twitter.com/pwGO5Tu67E
— Kosoko Jackson (@KosokoJackson) June 16, 2021PSA ATTENTION:#Juneteenth WILL NOT BE TAKEN OVER BY WHITE PEOPLE OR BY CAPILTALISM! THIS IS A BLACK AMERICAN HOLIDAY.
— More policy Less politics (@lifeandmorelife) June 19, 2020
Black folks will continue Juneteenth as we normally do.
For white folks it will be your
DAY OF REFLECTION about an evil system that your ancestors created
Tribalism is always a bad thing. The country won't survive it. And yet, we have a political party in this country that actively promotes this kind of tribalism on a daily basis.
I know pointing this out makes you mad.
My issue with your post is seeing one of this board's most tribal members decry tribalism -- and then try to make tribalism itself a partisan issue.
Juneteenth to become federal holiday
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Last: 2 yr ago by Porteroso
Hmm. You sure you aren't mad? More than any other poster on this board, you seem to proffer moral equivalency arguments when someone points out something negative about the Democrat Party. Of course, you don't seem to engage in this same sort of moral equivalency when its aimed at Republicans. So despite your protests, I am not so sure.bear2be2 said:It doesn't make me mad. I have no affiliation with or obligation to defend the Democratic Party.Mothra said:Perhaps to some extent, but the Democrat Party is actively engaged in separating us by race and ethnicity right now.bear2be2 said:Are you really arguing that only one of our parties actively exploits its members' tribalism? Is that irony lost on you?Mothra said:What's funny about these racist tweets is many of us evil white peoples' ancestors had nothing to do with slavery. Mine came over on a boat from Germany in 1882. But even if they had participated in it, how are people 150 years and generations removed from a heinous practice responsible for the actions of our great, great, great, great, grandparents? And what about those white people whose ancestors fought and died to abolish the practice?Doc Holliday said:The holiday and celebrating the end of slavery is awesome IMO. The more federal holidays the better!Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Completely appropriate to commemorate one of the most significant events in our country's history via federal holiday.
My concern though is rather than using this day to unify the country on what it did right, it will be yet another tool of the left to stoke perpetual resentment and division over what it did wrong.
How is it that celebrating the end of slavery will stoke resentment? Can you explain that one to me?
What's not awesome is the expansion of critical race theory and modern anti white rhetoric based on horrors of the past like slavery. Academia and media will surely use this holiday as a backboard to do so and be emboldened by it.
It's not the holiday, it's how we're interpreting it.… white people having a day off for Juneteenth…. Makes me angry…
— Crab Leg Luxury. (@ScottieBeam) June 16, 2021Considering it only exists because they stole our people. Y’all get to reap the fruit of your crimes and get to take a day off where you don’t have to think critically of how blood paved the road to your criminal success? pic.twitter.com/pwGO5Tu67E
— Kosoko Jackson (@KosokoJackson) June 16, 2021PSA ATTENTION:#Juneteenth WILL NOT BE TAKEN OVER BY WHITE PEOPLE OR BY CAPILTALISM! THIS IS A BLACK AMERICAN HOLIDAY.
— More policy Less politics (@lifeandmorelife) June 19, 2020
Black folks will continue Juneteenth as we normally do.
For white folks it will be your
DAY OF REFLECTION about an evil system that your ancestors created
Tribalism is always a bad thing. The country won't survive it. And yet, we have a political party in this country that actively promotes this kind of tribalism on a daily basis.
I know pointing this out makes you mad.
My issue with your post is seeing one of this board's most tribal members decry tribalism -- and then try to make tribalism itself a partisan issue.
As for tribalism, I have no strong attachment to white culture or my ethnic identity. I think you equate strong moral convictions and religious beliefs with tribalism, given your lack thereof.
White people dont like to admit they were ever wrong. Old, white southerners especially.Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Completely appropriate to commemorate one of the most significant events in our country's history via federal holiday.
My concern though is rather than using this day to unify the country on what it did right, it will be yet another tool of the left to stoke perpetual resentment and division over what it did wrong.
How is it that celebrating the end of slavery will stoke resentment? Can you explain that one to me?
My mother in law was just telling us the other day how much she loves Stone Mountain, and how much my father in law dislikes New Orleans because, you know....
Do you feel that conservative voices are so underrepresented and conservative ideals so rarely/poorly defended on this board that my opinion/affirmation is needed on every topic with which I agree?Mothra said:Hmm. You sure you aren't mad? More than any other poster on this board, you seem to proffer moral equivalency arguments when someone points out something negative about the Democrat Party. Of course, you don't seem to engage in this same sort of moral equivalency when its aimed at Republicans. So despite your protests, I am not so sure.bear2be2 said:It doesn't make me mad. I have no affiliation with or obligation to defend the Democratic Party.Mothra said:Perhaps to some extent, but the Democrat Party is actively engaged in separating us by race and ethnicity right now.bear2be2 said:Are you really arguing that only one of our parties actively exploits its members' tribalism? Is that irony lost on you?Mothra said:What's funny about these racist tweets is many of us evil white peoples' ancestors had nothing to do with slavery. Mine came over on a boat from Germany in 1882. But even if they had participated in it, how are people 150 years and generations removed from a heinous practice responsible for the actions of our great, great, great, great, grandparents? And what about those white people whose ancestors fought and died to abolish the practice?Doc Holliday said:The holiday and celebrating the end of slavery is awesome IMO. The more federal holidays the better!Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Completely appropriate to commemorate one of the most significant events in our country's history via federal holiday.
My concern though is rather than using this day to unify the country on what it did right, it will be yet another tool of the left to stoke perpetual resentment and division over what it did wrong.
How is it that celebrating the end of slavery will stoke resentment? Can you explain that one to me?
What's not awesome is the expansion of critical race theory and modern anti white rhetoric based on horrors of the past like slavery. Academia and media will surely use this holiday as a backboard to do so and be emboldened by it.
It's not the holiday, it's how we're interpreting it.… white people having a day off for Juneteenth…. Makes me angry…
— Crab Leg Luxury. (@ScottieBeam) June 16, 2021Considering it only exists because they stole our people. Y’all get to reap the fruit of your crimes and get to take a day off where you don’t have to think critically of how blood paved the road to your criminal success? pic.twitter.com/pwGO5Tu67E
— Kosoko Jackson (@KosokoJackson) June 16, 2021PSA ATTENTION:#Juneteenth WILL NOT BE TAKEN OVER BY WHITE PEOPLE OR BY CAPILTALISM! THIS IS A BLACK AMERICAN HOLIDAY.
— More policy Less politics (@lifeandmorelife) June 19, 2020
Black folks will continue Juneteenth as we normally do.
For white folks it will be your
DAY OF REFLECTION about an evil system that your ancestors created
Tribalism is always a bad thing. The country won't survive it. And yet, we have a political party in this country that actively promotes this kind of tribalism on a daily basis.
I know pointing this out makes you mad.
My issue with your post is seeing one of this board's most tribal members decry tribalism -- and then try to make tribalism itself a partisan issue.
As for tribalism, I have no strong attachment to white culture or my ethnic identity. I think you equate strong moral convictions and religious beliefs with tribalism, given your lack thereof.
If I'm responding, it's typically to disagree with a majority-held opinion or help defend a minority one. I don't see much value in or derive much joy from posting agreement with the consensus on message boards, so I don't spend a lot of time posting affirmation.
If this was a liberal echo chamber rather than a conservative one, my posting patterns would be very different. I'm a moderate through and through -- and one with a bit of a contrarian bent. I'm never going to agree with everything anyone says.
As for your second paragraph, tribalism isn't limited to race or ethnic identity. People build tribes around just about every aspect of their lives. Your political and religious affiliations are absolutely tribes -- and tribal dynamics are 100 percent at play with yours (and everyone else's). When you can acknowledge that, you can start to recognize some of your blind spots.
Because your ancestors didn't die to end slavery.Rawhide said:
I have ancestors that fought for the Union. They died fighting to end slavery and keep the country together. I have yet to receive a thank you from a black person for my sacrifice
They fought an imperialistic war against a southern national-secessionist movement. aka to "Preserve the Union"
If they thought they were being forced to fight to end slavery they would have turned their guns on their officers.
"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." - Abraham Lincoln
"Slavery is no more the cause of this current war that Mr. Lincoln has chosen to wage than gold is the cause of robbery." Governor Joel Parker of New Jersey, 1863
"President Lincoln desires the right to hold slaves to be fully recognized. This war is prosecuted for the Union, hence no question concerning slavery will arise." Simon Cameron, Union SEC. OF WAR 1861-1862
"The sole object of this war is to restore the Union. Should I be convinced . . . that our government designs using its soldiers to execute the wishes of these ABOLITIONISTS, I pledge to you I would resign and carry my sword to the other side" - U.S. Grant
"The Union government goes about liberating the enemy's slaves as it would the enemy's cattle, simply to weaken them in the conflict. The principle is not that a human being cannot justly own another, but that he cannot own him unless he is loyal to the United States Federal government. Hardly have we seen them act when even the slightest regard or kindness to these unfortunate slaves once they were taken" ~The London Spectator
"The average Union soldier at the time of the war was young, most often from a farming background, and barely literate, he was not willing to die to free an slaves, and no one told him that was the reason for the War. He fought for the reason Lincoln fought the War - to preserve the Union. In all the diaries I have read of Union soldiers between 1861-1865 I have seen no desire to fight a war 'against slave power', except among a small number of officers from New England. Indeed, there is no evidence that the general soldiery of the Federal armies had any desire at all to fight a war to end the practice of chattel slavery"
I believe there are plenty of left-leaning voices on this board. Otherwise, we wouldn't have these discussions. I can't say what the composition is, but I would say there is a pretty good mix here to the point it's not merely an echo chamber of conservative voices. Quite frankly, I think that position is absurd and an excuse you like to use to justify your positions.bear2be2 said:Do you feel that conservative voices are so underrepresented and conservative ideals so rarely/poorly defended on this board that my opinion/affirmation is needed on every topic I agree with?Mothra said:Hmm. You sure you aren't mad? More than any other poster on this board, you seem to proffer moral equivalency arguments when someone points out something negative about the Democrat Party. Of course, you don't seem to engage in this same sort of moral equivalency when its aimed at Republicans. So despite your protests, I am not so sure.bear2be2 said:It doesn't make me mad. I have no affiliation with or obligation to defend the Democratic Party.Mothra said:Perhaps to some extent, but the Democrat Party is actively engaged in separating us by race and ethnicity right now.bear2be2 said:Are you really arguing that only one of our parties actively exploits its members' tribalism? Is that irony lost on you?Mothra said:What's funny about these racist tweets is many of us evil white peoples' ancestors had nothing to do with slavery. Mine came over on a boat from Germany in 1882. But even if they had participated in it, how are people 150 years and generations removed from a heinous practice responsible for the actions of our great, great, great, great, grandparents? And what about those white people whose ancestors fought and died to abolish the practice?Doc Holliday said:The holiday and celebrating the end of slavery is awesome IMO. The more federal holidays the better!Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Completely appropriate to commemorate one of the most significant events in our country's history via federal holiday.
My concern though is rather than using this day to unify the country on what it did right, it will be yet another tool of the left to stoke perpetual resentment and division over what it did wrong.
How is it that celebrating the end of slavery will stoke resentment? Can you explain that one to me?
What's not awesome is the expansion of critical race theory and modern anti white rhetoric based on horrors of the past like slavery. Academia and media will surely use this holiday as a backboard to do so and be emboldened by it.
It's not the holiday, it's how we're interpreting it.… white people having a day off for Juneteenth…. Makes me angry…
— Crab Leg Luxury. (@ScottieBeam) June 16, 2021Considering it only exists because they stole our people. Y’all get to reap the fruit of your crimes and get to take a day off where you don’t have to think critically of how blood paved the road to your criminal success? pic.twitter.com/pwGO5Tu67E
— Kosoko Jackson (@KosokoJackson) June 16, 2021PSA ATTENTION:#Juneteenth WILL NOT BE TAKEN OVER BY WHITE PEOPLE OR BY CAPILTALISM! THIS IS A BLACK AMERICAN HOLIDAY.
— More policy Less politics (@lifeandmorelife) June 19, 2020
Black folks will continue Juneteenth as we normally do.
For white folks it will be your
DAY OF REFLECTION about an evil system that your ancestors created
Tribalism is always a bad thing. The country won't survive it. And yet, we have a political party in this country that actively promotes this kind of tribalism on a daily basis.
I know pointing this out makes you mad.
My issue with your post is seeing one of this board's most tribal members decry tribalism -- and then try to make tribalism itself a partisan issue.
As for tribalism, I have no strong attachment to white culture or my ethnic identity. I think you equate strong moral convictions and religious beliefs with tribalism, given your lack thereof.
If I'm responding, it's typically to disagree with a majority-held opinion or help defend a minority one. I don't see much value or derive much joy from posting agreement with the consensus on message boards, so I don't spend a lot of time posting affirmation.
If this was a liberal echo chamber rather than a conservative one, my posting patterns would be very different. I'm a moderate through and through -- and one with a bit of a contrarian bent. I'm never going to agree with everything anyone says.
As for your second paragraph, tribalism isn't limited to race or ethnic identity. People build tribes around just about every aspect of their lives. Your political and religious affiliations are absolutely tribes -- and tribal dynamics are 100 percent at play with yours (and everyone else's). When you can acknowledge that, you can start to recognize some of your blind spots.
The tribalism I was referencing was the racial and ethnic tribalism we see the democrat party engage in on a regular basis, as I clarified in a later post. I absolutely have strong moral beliefs and convictions that are shaped around my religious beliefs, and make no apology about that. But I do not use that as a cudgel to separate us, as I believe many in the Democrat Party are doing right now.
I would encourage you to ask any of this board's so-called liberal voices (there are very few true progressives here; most are center-left like myself) their opinions on that first paragraph. Just about any opinion that's not lockstep with the current Republican Party is dismissed by the majority here as Marxist and/or fascist (it's an ideological impossibility to be both, but I digress) and the poster is labeled a leftist whether that moniker actually fits or not.Mothra said:I believe there are plenty of left-leaning voices on this board. Otherwise, we wouldn't have these discussions. I can't say what the composition is, but I would say there is a pretty good mix here to the point it's not merely an echo chamber of conservative voices. Quite frankly, I think that position is absurd and an excuse you like to use to justify your positions.bear2be2 said:Do you feel that conservative voices are so underrepresented and conservative ideals so rarely/poorly defended on this board that my opinion/affirmation is needed on every topic I agree with?Mothra said:Hmm. You sure you aren't mad? More than any other poster on this board, you seem to proffer moral equivalency arguments when someone points out something negative about the Democrat Party. Of course, you don't seem to engage in this same sort of moral equivalency when its aimed at Republicans. So despite your protests, I am not so sure.bear2be2 said:It doesn't make me mad. I have no affiliation with or obligation to defend the Democratic Party.Mothra said:Perhaps to some extent, but the Democrat Party is actively engaged in separating us by race and ethnicity right now.bear2be2 said:Are you really arguing that only one of our parties actively exploits its members' tribalism? Is that irony lost on you?Mothra said:What's funny about these racist tweets is many of us evil white peoples' ancestors had nothing to do with slavery. Mine came over on a boat from Germany in 1882. But even if they had participated in it, how are people 150 years and generations removed from a heinous practice responsible for the actions of our great, great, great, great, grandparents? And what about those white people whose ancestors fought and died to abolish the practice?Doc Holliday said:The holiday and celebrating the end of slavery is awesome IMO. The more federal holidays the better!Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Completely appropriate to commemorate one of the most significant events in our country's history via federal holiday.
My concern though is rather than using this day to unify the country on what it did right, it will be yet another tool of the left to stoke perpetual resentment and division over what it did wrong.
How is it that celebrating the end of slavery will stoke resentment? Can you explain that one to me?
What's not awesome is the expansion of critical race theory and modern anti white rhetoric based on horrors of the past like slavery. Academia and media will surely use this holiday as a backboard to do so and be emboldened by it.
It's not the holiday, it's how we're interpreting it.… white people having a day off for Juneteenth…. Makes me angry…
— Crab Leg Luxury. (@ScottieBeam) June 16, 2021Considering it only exists because they stole our people. Y’all get to reap the fruit of your crimes and get to take a day off where you don’t have to think critically of how blood paved the road to your criminal success? pic.twitter.com/pwGO5Tu67E
— Kosoko Jackson (@KosokoJackson) June 16, 2021PSA ATTENTION:#Juneteenth WILL NOT BE TAKEN OVER BY WHITE PEOPLE OR BY CAPILTALISM! THIS IS A BLACK AMERICAN HOLIDAY.
— More policy Less politics (@lifeandmorelife) June 19, 2020
Black folks will continue Juneteenth as we normally do.
For white folks it will be your
DAY OF REFLECTION about an evil system that your ancestors created
Tribalism is always a bad thing. The country won't survive it. And yet, we have a political party in this country that actively promotes this kind of tribalism on a daily basis.
I know pointing this out makes you mad.
My issue with your post is seeing one of this board's most tribal members decry tribalism -- and then try to make tribalism itself a partisan issue.
As for tribalism, I have no strong attachment to white culture or my ethnic identity. I think you equate strong moral convictions and religious beliefs with tribalism, given your lack thereof.
If I'm responding, it's typically to disagree with a majority-held opinion or help defend a minority one. I don't see much value or derive much joy from posting agreement with the consensus on message boards, so I don't spend a lot of time posting affirmation.
If this was a liberal echo chamber rather than a conservative one, my posting patterns would be very different. I'm a moderate through and through -- and one with a bit of a contrarian bent. I'm never going to agree with everything anyone says.
As for your second paragraph, tribalism isn't limited to race or ethnic identity. People build tribes around just about every aspect of their lives. Your political and religious affiliations are absolutely tribes -- and tribal dynamics are 100 percent at play with yours (and everyone else's). When you can acknowledge that, you can start to recognize some of your blind spots.
The tribalism I was referencing was the racial and ethnic tribalism we see the democrat party engage in on a regular basis, as I clarified in a later post. I absolutely have strong moral beliefs and convictions that are shaped around my religious beliefs, and make no apology about that. But I do not use that as a cudgel to separate us, as I believe many in the Democrat Party are doing right now.
If you think that anyone from RINO to socialist on the ideological spectrum isn't swimming upstream on this board, I don't know what to tell you other than that your tribal affiliations have clouded your judgment on this topic.
Having a day to celebrate the end of slavery in the US is something I support.
Having it be Juneteenth seems silly to me since it is specific to Texas. The date of the Emancipation Proclamation seems a better choice.
Having it be Juneteenth seems silly to me since it is specific to Texas. The date of the Emancipation Proclamation seems a better choice.
“At the end of the day, for 40 minutes, we just kicked their ass.”
- Mark Vital
- Mark Vital
Is it silly to you that we celebrate Christmas in December?Friscobear said:
Having a day to celebrate the end of slavery in the US is something I support.
Having it be Juneteenth seems silly to me since it is specific to Texas. The date of the Emancipation Proclamation seems a better choice.
Does it really matter whether the date is literal or representative when it's the event and its significance that we're celebrating, not the specific date on which it occurred?
Already a holiday in 47 states and DCPorteroso said:
The thing passed unanimously in the Senate, didn't it? But the resident conservatives have a problem celebrating the end of slavery? I knew it lol, I was thinking of the sicem365 reaction when I saw it a while ago.
Exactly.Friscobear said:
Having a day to celebrate the end of slavery in the US is something I support.
Having it be Juneteenth seems silly to me since it is specific to Texas. The date of the Emancipation Proclamation seems a better choice.
Its the appropriation of a holiday for Texas Blacks. It would be like making San Jacinto day a national holiday.
If the goal is a national holiday to celebrate the end of slavery then yes emancipation proclamation (September 22) or ratification of the 13th amendment ending slavery (Congress passed the 13th Amendment by the necessary two-thirds vote on January 31, and it was ratified by the states on December 6,) would be better choices.
Already a holiday in 47 states and DCRedbrickbear said:Exactly.Friscobear said:
Having a day to celebrate the end of slavery in the US is something I support.
Having it be Juneteenth seems silly to me since it is specific to Texas. The date of the Emancipation Proclamation seems a better choice.
Its the appropriation of a holiday for Texas Blacks. It would be like making San Jacinto day a national holiday.
If the goal is a national holiday to celebrate the end of slavery then yes emancipation proclamation (September 22) or ratification of the 13th amendment ending slavery (Congress passed the 13th Amendment by the necessary two-thirds vote on January 31, and it was ratified by the states on December 6,) would be better choices.
There are a fair number of Texas Blacks who have been fighting to make Juneteenth a national holiday. I don't think it's likely that group will be upset by the holiday's increased exposure.Redbrickbear said:Exactly.Friscobear said:
Having a day to celebrate the end of slavery in the US is something I support.
Having it be Juneteenth seems silly to me since it is specific to Texas. The date of the Emancipation Proclamation seems a better choice.
Its the appropriation of a holiday for Texas Blacks. It would be like making San Jacinto day a national holiday.
If the goal is a national holiday to celebrate the end of slavery then yes emancipation proclamation (September 22) or ratification of the 13th amendment ending slavery (Congress passed the 13th Amendment by the necessary two-thirds vote on January 31, and it was ratified by the states on December 6,) would be better choices.
Neither did the black person born todayBooray said:Because you didn't sacrifice anything.Rawhide said:
I have ancestors that fought for the Union. They died fighting to end slavery and keep the country together. I have yet to receive a thank you from a black person for my sacrifice
I thought every day was a holiday for federal employees?
"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
I lost two great great uncles on the second day at Shiloh. F Grant. Texas would have been better off out of the union. My ancestors would probably make the same decision again, I would back them. Neither had anything to do with slaves. They were dirt farmers from Texas and Georgia. Why would anyone thank you for your sacrifice? You didnt do anything but cheerlead a 170 years later. Your yankee bloodlines dont surprise me.Rawhide said:
I have ancestors that fought for the Union. They died fighting to end slavery and keep the country together. I have yet to receive a thank you from a black person for my sacrifice
I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
If you mean sacrifice by making a voluntary decision, you are correct. Black people as a race, however, were and continue to be disadvantaged by our past policies.Rawhide said:Neither did the black person born todayBooray said:Because you didn't sacrifice anything.Rawhide said:
I have ancestors that fought for the Union. They died fighting to end slavery and keep the country together. I have yet to receive a thank you from a black person for my sacrifice
Do you have an example of past policies that black people are still disadvantaged by in 2021?Booray said:If you mean sacrifice by making a voluntary decision, you are correct. Black people as a race, however, were and continue to be disadvantaged by our past policies.Rawhide said:Neither did the black person born todayBooray said:Because you didn't sacrifice anything.Rawhide said:
I have ancestors that fought for the Union. They died fighting to end slavery and keep the country together. I have yet to receive a thank you from a black person for my sacrifice
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:I lost two great great uncles on the second day at Shiloh. F Grant. Texas would have been better off out of the union. My ancestors would probably make the same decision again, I would back them. Neither had anything to do with slaves. They were dirt farmers from Texas and Georgia. Why would anyone thank you for your sacrifice? You didnt do anything but cheerlead a 170 years later. Your yankee bloodlines dont surprise me.Rawhide said:
I have ancestors that fought for the Union. They died fighting to end slavery and keep the country together. I have yet to receive a thank you from a black person for my sacrifice
Texas was a shade better than Mozambique before they joined up.
Just saying. Twernt no shining paradise.
The big lie.... black people are victims from simply being born.Booray said:If you mean sacrifice by making a voluntary decision, you are correct. Black people as a race, however, were and continue to be disadvantaged by our past policies.Rawhide said:Neither did the black person born todayBooray said:Because you didn't sacrifice anything.Rawhide said:
I have ancestors that fought for the Union. They died fighting to end slavery and keep the country together. I have yet to receive a thank you from a black person for my sacrifice
I have identified so far 49 ancestors that fought for the following:Rawhide said:
I have ancestors that fought for the Union. They died fighting to end slavery and keep the country together. I have yet to receive a thank you from a black person for my sacrifice
1. Abolishing a tariff on Southern states that provided 75% of the $$$ to run the Federal Gvt. Lincoln promised Northern industrialists that he would raise the tariff even higher. This brought about the secessionist movement.
2. The North altered the form of government this nation was founded upon. Lincoln disregarded the Constitution by starting a war that changed America from a Constitutional Federal Republic to a Democracy with Socialists leanings. Why else would Karl Marx himself send Lincoln a letter of congratulations after his reelection in 1864? A number of European Socialists came to America to fight for the North.
3.The North wanted Southern resources. Yankee industrialists used a morality claim against the South alleging the evils of slavery all while forgetting that Mass, Conn, NH, RI and New York were primarily responsible for most of the importation of African slaves to America.
4. The North had many atheists, transcendentalists and non-Christians who were in direct opposition of the South's basic Christianity presented in the Holy Bible. These secular humanists believed that there is no God and that man, science & government can solve all problems. Sound familiar?
5. Vast cultural differences had existed for 1500 years due to different genetic lineages. The South was heavy with Western English, Scottish and Irish while the North was heavily influenced by Anglo-Saxon and Danish cultures. King Arthur had already kicked Saxon @$$ at the battle of Baden Hill.
6. Beginning in 1830 the Northern newspapers began a grand plan of slandering the South. Slavery was used to bring this claim to a fever pitch. All while Northern Industrialists worked poor white people (including children) up to 18 hours per day in terrible conditions. If you got old or sick you were fired. Homelessness in the North was horrendous. The living conditions for most of the Southern slaves were better than the Northern downtrodden.
7. Yes, slavery was a part of the cause for the war even though most Southerners did not own a single slave. Prior to the war there were 5 times as many abolition societies in the South. The 1st state to legalize slavery was Mass in 1641. Robert E. Lee freed his slaves prior 1863 whereas Ulysses S. Grant's wife Julia did not free her slaves until after the war and when forced to do so. Charles Dickens stated , "Northern onslaught upon Southern slavery is a specious piece of humbug designed to mask their desire for the economic control of the Southern states.
I have identified 1 ancestor that fought for the North.
I can't do anything about this travesty. I am proud that my ancestors (only 1 I can confirm owned a slave) fought for causes that most surely I have listed above and maybe a few that I did not list. I find it ridiculous to believe that these ancestors walked or rode a horse 100's of miles to fight for slavery.
I do not expect a thank you from anyone. These men were all pawns in my opinion used by Lincoln and our government to unleash hell on each other.
"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
According to the Google machine, The Catholic Church deemed Christmas to be December 25th in 336 AD. I think it was pretty well established, whether it had anything to do with the actual birth of Christ or not, by the time it was made a federal holiday in the United States.bear2be2 said:Is it silly to you that we celebrate Christmas in December?Friscobear said:
Having a day to celebrate the end of slavery in the US is something I support.
Having it be Juneteenth seems silly to me since it is specific to Texas. The date of the Emancipation Proclamation seems a better choice.
Does it really matter whether the date is literal or representative when it's the event and its significance that we're celebrating, not the specific date on which it occurred?
So yeah, pretty much the same thing.
Anyway, I just think it should be a national event to become a national holiday.
“At the end of the day, for 40 minutes, we just kicked their ass.”
- Mark Vital
- Mark Vital
Booray said:If you mean sacrifice by making a voluntary decision, you are correct. Black people as a race, however, were and continue to be disadvantaged by our past policies.Rawhide said:Neither did the black person born todayBooray said:Because you didn't sacrifice anything.Rawhide said:
I have ancestors that fought for the Union. They died fighting to end slavery and keep the country together. I have yet to receive a thank you from a black person for my sacrifice
Please list those policies that continue today for us.
If y'all don't like black people just come out and say it. No reason to skirt around the issue.
SIC EM 94 said:Booray said:If you mean sacrifice by making a voluntary decision, you are correct. Black people as a race, however, were and continue to be disadvantaged by our past policies.Rawhide said:Neither did the black person born todayBooray said:Because you didn't sacrifice anything.Rawhide said:
I have ancestors that fought for the Union. They died fighting to end slavery and keep the country together. I have yet to receive a thank you from a black person for my sacrifice
Please list those policies that continue today for us.
Shoot, list any of those policies that have existed for any of the last 50 years.
Never suggested the board doesn't lean conservative. You said, "conservative echo chamber," which I think you know is complete and total b.s.bear2be2 said:I would encourage you to ask any of this board's so-called liberal voices (there are very few true progressives here; most are center-left like myself) their opinions on that first paragraph. Just about any opinion that's not lockstep with the current Republican Party is dismissed by the majority here as Marxist and/or fascist (it's an ideological impossibility to be both, but I digress) and the poster is labeled a leftist whether that moniker actually fits or not.Mothra said:I believe there are plenty of left-leaning voices on this board. Otherwise, we wouldn't have these discussions. I can't say what the composition is, but I would say there is a pretty good mix here to the point it's not merely an echo chamber of conservative voices. Quite frankly, I think that position is absurd and an excuse you like to use to justify your positions.bear2be2 said:Do you feel that conservative voices are so underrepresented and conservative ideals so rarely/poorly defended on this board that my opinion/affirmation is needed on every topic I agree with?Mothra said:Hmm. You sure you aren't mad? More than any other poster on this board, you seem to proffer moral equivalency arguments when someone points out something negative about the Democrat Party. Of course, you don't seem to engage in this same sort of moral equivalency when its aimed at Republicans. So despite your protests, I am not so sure.bear2be2 said:It doesn't make me mad. I have no affiliation with or obligation to defend the Democratic Party.Mothra said:Perhaps to some extent, but the Democrat Party is actively engaged in separating us by race and ethnicity right now.bear2be2 said:Are you really arguing that only one of our parties actively exploits its members' tribalism? Is that irony lost on you?Mothra said:What's funny about these racist tweets is many of us evil white peoples' ancestors had nothing to do with slavery. Mine came over on a boat from Germany in 1882. But even if they had participated in it, how are people 150 years and generations removed from a heinous practice responsible for the actions of our great, great, great, great, grandparents? And what about those white people whose ancestors fought and died to abolish the practice?Doc Holliday said:The holiday and celebrating the end of slavery is awesome IMO. The more federal holidays the better!Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Completely appropriate to commemorate one of the most significant events in our country's history via federal holiday.
My concern though is rather than using this day to unify the country on what it did right, it will be yet another tool of the left to stoke perpetual resentment and division over what it did wrong.
How is it that celebrating the end of slavery will stoke resentment? Can you explain that one to me?
What's not awesome is the expansion of critical race theory and modern anti white rhetoric based on horrors of the past like slavery. Academia and media will surely use this holiday as a backboard to do so and be emboldened by it.
It's not the holiday, it's how we're interpreting it.… white people having a day off for Juneteenth…. Makes me angry…
— Crab Leg Luxury. (@ScottieBeam) June 16, 2021Considering it only exists because they stole our people. Y’all get to reap the fruit of your crimes and get to take a day off where you don’t have to think critically of how blood paved the road to your criminal success? pic.twitter.com/pwGO5Tu67E
— Kosoko Jackson (@KosokoJackson) June 16, 2021PSA ATTENTION:#Juneteenth WILL NOT BE TAKEN OVER BY WHITE PEOPLE OR BY CAPILTALISM! THIS IS A BLACK AMERICAN HOLIDAY.
— More policy Less politics (@lifeandmorelife) June 19, 2020
Black folks will continue Juneteenth as we normally do.
For white folks it will be your
DAY OF REFLECTION about an evil system that your ancestors created
Tribalism is always a bad thing. The country won't survive it. And yet, we have a political party in this country that actively promotes this kind of tribalism on a daily basis.
I know pointing this out makes you mad.
My issue with your post is seeing one of this board's most tribal members decry tribalism -- and then try to make tribalism itself a partisan issue.
As for tribalism, I have no strong attachment to white culture or my ethnic identity. I think you equate strong moral convictions and religious beliefs with tribalism, given your lack thereof.
If I'm responding, it's typically to disagree with a majority-held opinion or help defend a minority one. I don't see much value or derive much joy from posting agreement with the consensus on message boards, so I don't spend a lot of time posting affirmation.
If this was a liberal echo chamber rather than a conservative one, my posting patterns would be very different. I'm a moderate through and through -- and one with a bit of a contrarian bent. I'm never going to agree with everything anyone says.
As for your second paragraph, tribalism isn't limited to race or ethnic identity. People build tribes around just about every aspect of their lives. Your political and religious affiliations are absolutely tribes -- and tribal dynamics are 100 percent at play with yours (and everyone else's). When you can acknowledge that, you can start to recognize some of your blind spots.
The tribalism I was referencing was the racial and ethnic tribalism we see the democrat party engage in on a regular basis, as I clarified in a later post. I absolutely have strong moral beliefs and convictions that are shaped around my religious beliefs, and make no apology about that. But I do not use that as a cudgel to separate us, as I believe many in the Democrat Party are doing right now.
If you think that anyone from RINO to socialist on the ideological spectrum isn't swimming upstream on this board, I don't know what to tell you other than that your tribal affiliations have clouded your judgment on this topic.
Or perhaps I've given you way too much credit.
Mothra said:Never suggested the board doesn't lean conservative. You said, "conservative echo chamber," which I think you know is complete and total b.s.bear2be2 said:I would encourage you to ask any of this board's so-called liberal voices (there are very few true progressives here; most are center-left like myself) their opinions on that first paragraph. Just about any opinion that's not lockstep with the current Republican Party is dismissed by the majority here as Marxist and/or fascist (it's an ideological impossibility to be both, but I digress) and the poster is labeled a leftist whether that moniker actually fits or not.Mothra said:I believe there are plenty of left-leaning voices on this board. Otherwise, we wouldn't have these discussions. I can't say what the composition is, but I would say there is a pretty good mix here to the point it's not merely an echo chamber of conservative voices. Quite frankly, I think that position is absurd and an excuse you like to use to justify your positions.bear2be2 said:Do you feel that conservative voices are so underrepresented and conservative ideals so rarely/poorly defended on this board that my opinion/affirmation is needed on every topic I agree with?Mothra said:Hmm. You sure you aren't mad? More than any other poster on this board, you seem to proffer moral equivalency arguments when someone points out something negative about the Democrat Party. Of course, you don't seem to engage in this same sort of moral equivalency when its aimed at Republicans. So despite your protests, I am not so sure.bear2be2 said:It doesn't make me mad. I have no affiliation with or obligation to defend the Democratic Party.Mothra said:Perhaps to some extent, but the Democrat Party is actively engaged in separating us by race and ethnicity right now.bear2be2 said:Are you really arguing that only one of our parties actively exploits its members' tribalism? Is that irony lost on you?Mothra said:What's funny about these racist tweets is many of us evil white peoples' ancestors had nothing to do with slavery. Mine came over on a boat from Germany in 1882. But even if they had participated in it, how are people 150 years and generations removed from a heinous practice responsible for the actions of our great, great, great, great, grandparents? And what about those white people whose ancestors fought and died to abolish the practice?Doc Holliday said:The holiday and celebrating the end of slavery is awesome IMO. The more federal holidays the better!Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Completely appropriate to commemorate one of the most significant events in our country's history via federal holiday.
My concern though is rather than using this day to unify the country on what it did right, it will be yet another tool of the left to stoke perpetual resentment and division over what it did wrong.
How is it that celebrating the end of slavery will stoke resentment? Can you explain that one to me?
What's not awesome is the expansion of critical race theory and modern anti white rhetoric based on horrors of the past like slavery. Academia and media will surely use this holiday as a backboard to do so and be emboldened by it.
It's not the holiday, it's how we're interpreting it.… white people having a day off for Juneteenth…. Makes me angry…
— Crab Leg Luxury. (@ScottieBeam) June 16, 2021Considering it only exists because they stole our people. Y’all get to reap the fruit of your crimes and get to take a day off where you don’t have to think critically of how blood paved the road to your criminal success? pic.twitter.com/pwGO5Tu67E
— Kosoko Jackson (@KosokoJackson) June 16, 2021PSA ATTENTION:#Juneteenth WILL NOT BE TAKEN OVER BY WHITE PEOPLE OR BY CAPILTALISM! THIS IS A BLACK AMERICAN HOLIDAY.
— More policy Less politics (@lifeandmorelife) June 19, 2020
Black folks will continue Juneteenth as we normally do.
For white folks it will be your
DAY OF REFLECTION about an evil system that your ancestors created
Tribalism is always a bad thing. The country won't survive it. And yet, we have a political party in this country that actively promotes this kind of tribalism on a daily basis.
I know pointing this out makes you mad.
My issue with your post is seeing one of this board's most tribal members decry tribalism -- and then try to make tribalism itself a partisan issue.
As for tribalism, I have no strong attachment to white culture or my ethnic identity. I think you equate strong moral convictions and religious beliefs with tribalism, given your lack thereof.
If I'm responding, it's typically to disagree with a majority-held opinion or help defend a minority one. I don't see much value or derive much joy from posting agreement with the consensus on message boards, so I don't spend a lot of time posting affirmation.
If this was a liberal echo chamber rather than a conservative one, my posting patterns would be very different. I'm a moderate through and through -- and one with a bit of a contrarian bent. I'm never going to agree with everything anyone says.
As for your second paragraph, tribalism isn't limited to race or ethnic identity. People build tribes around just about every aspect of their lives. Your political and religious affiliations are absolutely tribes -- and tribal dynamics are 100 percent at play with yours (and everyone else's). When you can acknowledge that, you can start to recognize some of your blind spots.
The tribalism I was referencing was the racial and ethnic tribalism we see the democrat party engage in on a regular basis, as I clarified in a later post. I absolutely have strong moral beliefs and convictions that are shaped around my religious beliefs, and make no apology about that. But I do not use that as a cudgel to separate us, as I believe many in the Democrat Party are doing right now.
If you think that anyone from RINO to socialist on the ideological spectrum isn't swimming upstream on this board, I don't know what to tell you other than that your tribal affiliations have clouded your judgment on this topic.
Or perhaps I've given you way too much credit.
The board leans obstinate and abrasive.
Neither is it surprising that your ancestors got their asses kicked.Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:Your yankee bloodlines dont surprise me.Rawhide said:
I have ancestors that fought for the Union. They died fighting to end slavery and keep the country together. I have yet to receive a thank you from a black person for my sacrifice
Thee I am sorry to hear about your Yankee ancestor.
I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
Redbrickbear said:
It's a holiday for Texas blacks...very strange to make it a national holiday.
Even most liberals didn't know it was a thing until like 4 years ago.
Exactly. This makes about as much sense as making April 21st, "San Jacinto Day" (i.e. the anniversary of the day when Texas won its independence from Mexico in 1836) a national holiday.
Agree with that.GoldMind said:Mothra said:Never suggested the board doesn't lean conservative. You said, "conservative echo chamber," which I think you know is complete and total b.s.bear2be2 said:I would encourage you to ask any of this board's so-called liberal voices (there are very few true progressives here; most are center-left like myself) their opinions on that first paragraph. Just about any opinion that's not lockstep with the current Republican Party is dismissed by the majority here as Marxist and/or fascist (it's an ideological impossibility to be both, but I digress) and the poster is labeled a leftist whether that moniker actually fits or not.Mothra said:I believe there are plenty of left-leaning voices on this board. Otherwise, we wouldn't have these discussions. I can't say what the composition is, but I would say there is a pretty good mix here to the point it's not merely an echo chamber of conservative voices. Quite frankly, I think that position is absurd and an excuse you like to use to justify your positions.bear2be2 said:Do you feel that conservative voices are so underrepresented and conservative ideals so rarely/poorly defended on this board that my opinion/affirmation is needed on every topic I agree with?Mothra said:Hmm. You sure you aren't mad? More than any other poster on this board, you seem to proffer moral equivalency arguments when someone points out something negative about the Democrat Party. Of course, you don't seem to engage in this same sort of moral equivalency when its aimed at Republicans. So despite your protests, I am not so sure.bear2be2 said:It doesn't make me mad. I have no affiliation with or obligation to defend the Democratic Party.Mothra said:Perhaps to some extent, but the Democrat Party is actively engaged in separating us by race and ethnicity right now.bear2be2 said:Are you really arguing that only one of our parties actively exploits its members' tribalism? Is that irony lost on you?Mothra said:What's funny about these racist tweets is many of us evil white peoples' ancestors had nothing to do with slavery. Mine came over on a boat from Germany in 1882. But even if they had participated in it, how are people 150 years and generations removed from a heinous practice responsible for the actions of our great, great, great, great, grandparents? And what about those white people whose ancestors fought and died to abolish the practice?Doc Holliday said:The holiday and celebrating the end of slavery is awesome IMO. The more federal holidays the better!Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Completely appropriate to commemorate one of the most significant events in our country's history via federal holiday.
My concern though is rather than using this day to unify the country on what it did right, it will be yet another tool of the left to stoke perpetual resentment and division over what it did wrong.
How is it that celebrating the end of slavery will stoke resentment? Can you explain that one to me?
What's not awesome is the expansion of critical race theory and modern anti white rhetoric based on horrors of the past like slavery. Academia and media will surely use this holiday as a backboard to do so and be emboldened by it.
It's not the holiday, it's how we're interpreting it.… white people having a day off for Juneteenth…. Makes me angry…
— Crab Leg Luxury. (@ScottieBeam) June 16, 2021Considering it only exists because they stole our people. Y’all get to reap the fruit of your crimes and get to take a day off where you don’t have to think critically of how blood paved the road to your criminal success? pic.twitter.com/pwGO5Tu67E
— Kosoko Jackson (@KosokoJackson) June 16, 2021PSA ATTENTION:#Juneteenth WILL NOT BE TAKEN OVER BY WHITE PEOPLE OR BY CAPILTALISM! THIS IS A BLACK AMERICAN HOLIDAY.
— More policy Less politics (@lifeandmorelife) June 19, 2020
Black folks will continue Juneteenth as we normally do.
For white folks it will be your
DAY OF REFLECTION about an evil system that your ancestors created
Tribalism is always a bad thing. The country won't survive it. And yet, we have a political party in this country that actively promotes this kind of tribalism on a daily basis.
I know pointing this out makes you mad.
My issue with your post is seeing one of this board's most tribal members decry tribalism -- and then try to make tribalism itself a partisan issue.
As for tribalism, I have no strong attachment to white culture or my ethnic identity. I think you equate strong moral convictions and religious beliefs with tribalism, given your lack thereof.
If I'm responding, it's typically to disagree with a majority-held opinion or help defend a minority one. I don't see much value or derive much joy from posting agreement with the consensus on message boards, so I don't spend a lot of time posting affirmation.
If this was a liberal echo chamber rather than a conservative one, my posting patterns would be very different. I'm a moderate through and through -- and one with a bit of a contrarian bent. I'm never going to agree with everything anyone says.
As for your second paragraph, tribalism isn't limited to race or ethnic identity. People build tribes around just about every aspect of their lives. Your political and religious affiliations are absolutely tribes -- and tribal dynamics are 100 percent at play with yours (and everyone else's). When you can acknowledge that, you can start to recognize some of your blind spots.
The tribalism I was referencing was the racial and ethnic tribalism we see the democrat party engage in on a regular basis, as I clarified in a later post. I absolutely have strong moral beliefs and convictions that are shaped around my religious beliefs, and make no apology about that. But I do not use that as a cudgel to separate us, as I believe many in the Democrat Party are doing right now.
If you think that anyone from RINO to socialist on the ideological spectrum isn't swimming upstream on this board, I don't know what to tell you other than that your tribal affiliations have clouded your judgment on this topic.
Or perhaps I've given you way too much credit.
The board leans obstinate and abrasive.
The one who kicked your ancestors' asses?Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:
Thee I am sorry to hear about your Yankee ancestor.
Do you actually believe these concerns about critical race theory are rooted in racism?Bears2Canes said:
If y'all don't like black people just come out and say it. No reason to skirt around the issue.
Not really. This milestone for Texas was a milestone for our nation. People in Texas just recognized and celebrated the day before the rest of the country did.Johnny Bear said:Redbrickbear said:
It's a holiday for Texas blacks...very strange to make it a national holiday.
Even most liberals didn't know it was a thing until like 4 years ago.
Exactly. This makes about as much sense as making April 21st, "San Jacinto Day" (i.e. the anniversary of the day when Texas won its independence from Mexico in 1836) a national holiday.
It's worthy of praise and it being a national holiday is great!bear2be2 said:Not really. This milestone for Texas was a milestone for our nation. People in Texas just recognized and celebrated the day before the rest of the country did.Johnny Bear said:Redbrickbear said:
It's a holiday for Texas blacks...very strange to make it a national holiday.
Even most liberals didn't know it was a thing until like 4 years ago.
Exactly. This makes about as much sense as making April 21st, "San Jacinto Day" (i.e. the anniversary of the day when Texas won its independence from Mexico in 1836) a national holiday.
But we all need to come together and condemn critical justice that's taking over the message. Or bad things will happen as a result.