Gameday Thread: #14 Baylor (12-2; 1-0) vs #18 BYU (12-2; 0-1)

Welcome to the @Big12Conference, BYU 🤝#SicEm pic.twitter.com/1KNPUACxfV

— Baylor Athletics (@BaylorAthletics) January 10, 2024

Quinton said:

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Stefano DiMera said:

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Exactly what Izzo and Schyer said about us...we don't communicate on defense... baffling...

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This isn't strictly a personnel issue. Iowa st and Houston don't have special guys, they have tough focused defensive coaching.

We need a defensive specialist brought on staff to help fix it.

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If Oklahoma State fires Boynton this offseason, we should bring him on staff. He's a great recruiter and a good defensive coach.

GoodOleBaylorLine said:

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BearFan33 said:

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Wow byu meltdown by coach

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Good T I think. BYU wasn't going to win at that point and show some fire for your guys.

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They were down by 5 with a minute left. If Pope doesn't get the T, and we only make 1 FT, BYU is still only 2 scores down. It was an ill advised meltdown.

If you had told me before the game we would win with Yves Missi compiling 0 points and 1 rebound, I would have likely said -- NO WAY!

bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Stefano DiMera said:

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Exactly what Izzo and Schyer said about us...we don't communicate on defense... baffling...

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This isn't strictly a personnel issue. Iowa st and Houston don't have special guys, they have tough focused defensive coaching.

We need a defensive specialist brought on staff to help fix it.

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If Oklahoma State fires Boynton this offseason, we should bring him on staff. He's a great recruiter and a good defensive coach.

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If he gets fired, I'd bet he gets an immediate HC job in a non-P5 conference.

I doubt him getting canned happens, because he just brought in a really good class, and his contract is pretty expensive for a school that isn't exactly rolling in the dough. Buyout would be tough for them

He is a great commentator, he knows the game better than most of the hacks that are on ESPN plus.

We definitely got some calls, but they were at the line late. I was actually impressed many times with our perimeter defense. Sure they made some shots (and some were open), but we defended well and got some good stops/steals in there when we needed it to pull back into the lead and hold it.

Definitely not looking forward to playing them again, but that kind of win gives me confidence that we can actually fight off a good team.

BYU's modus operandi tonight was very similar to their game v. Cincy:

Take a nice lead at half.
Extend it early 2nd half.
Lead shrinks, but they stay ahead through midway in the 2nd.
Start to fall behind.
Fade down the stretch with little or no production the last 3-4 minutes.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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BearFan33 said:

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I think refs favored us a bit if anything.

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Not so sure, BYU was so physical and not in a controlled way, they committed a lot of uncalled fouls.

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I think the refs were terrible. Late whistles, lot of contact not called. The chick ref was out of position a lot and missed calls on out of bounds balls. Overall that crew should get a D- and that's generous.

ScottS said:

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MattyIce said:

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A lot of empty seats behind the Baylor bench

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Yes this looks bad on tv. If the whole point of foster and the smaller capacity and getting it full, why not at least make sure someone is sitting in the seats you see on tv??

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I saw some BYU fans scattered about, but they had very little presence at this game.

Three 2-0 teams in #Big12MBB, all led by members of the Baylor Family. #SicEm pic.twitter.com/QsfcUT2qUH

— David Kaye (@DavidKaye9) January 10, 2024

"I thought when we needed the fans tonight they were loud." - @BUDREW

"The fans brought it tonight, they brought the energy." - @jbizzz11e

The Foster Pavilion was ROCKING tonight in #Baylor's 81-72 win over No. 18 BYU! The fans get a major assist from tonight. #SicEm pic.twitter.com/5CIqqQdK1g

— Parker Rehm (@parker_rehm) January 10, 2024

Smashmouth said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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BearFan33 said:

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I think refs favored us a bit if anything.

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Not so sure, BYU was so physical and not in a controlled way, they committed a lot of uncalled fouls.

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I think the refs were terrible. Late whistles, lot of contact not called. The chick ref was out of position a lot and missed calls on out of bounds balls. Overall that crew should get a D- and that's generous.

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no lies detected ...

I dont think our coaches struggle with teaching defense. I think the players we recruit struggle to play D. But thats ok because they excel at offense.'

I enjoyed your post Dallas Bear

Also, it's not like Cryer has transformed into a good defender. I've watched several of UH's games, mostly out of curiosity for how they're using LJ, but also because they're damn good. UH hides LJ on defense. He's guarding off-ball, usually assigned to the least threatening opposing offensive player. When they play us, I'd imagine he'd be assigned Nunn, and I hope Jayden plays like he did last night, because that's a massive advantage for us if he can.

This year, Cryer gives a damn on the defensive end, which is way more than I could ever say about him here. Kudos to Sampson for bringing that out in him. But it's clear he's on the court because he's an elite shooter, not because he all of the sudden willed himself into becoming an even average defender.

Mitch Henessey said:

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Also, it's not like Cryer has transformed into a good defender. I've watched several of UH's games, mostly out of curiosity for how their using LJ, but also because they're damn good. UH hides LJ on defense. He's guarding off-ball, usually assigned to the least threatening opposing offensive player. When they play us, I'd imagine he'd be assigned Nunn, and I hope Jayden plays like he did last night, because that's a massive advantage for us if he can.

This year, Cryer gives a damn on the defensive end, which is way more than I could ever say about him here. Kudos to Sampson for bringing that out in him. But it's clear he's on the court because he's an elite shooter, not because he all of the sudden willed himself into becoming an even average defender.

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EDIT -- ignore the emoji. That was a fat-thumbed mistake.

I don't think anyone is saying LJ has become a great, or even good, individual defender. The point is he -- with all of his deficiencies on the defensive end of the floor -- can be part of an elite defensive team when playing for a coach that demands it.

I think some of us (myself included) got fooled by our 2020 and 2021 teams into believing that Drew had turned a major corner as a defensive coach. But the three years since would suggest our success on that end of the floor was more a product of the players on those teams than some newfound defensive standard at the top.

Kelvin Sampson's defenses are elite year in and year out because a) he's a really good at teaching team defense and b) he won't tolerate anything less. We likely aspire to that standard, but it's clear by the number of times a game we bust in both the halfcourt and transition (two players picking up the same guy while leaving another unguarded, failing to stop the ball, losing a cutter, etc.) that we don't demand it.

We demand that excellence in other areas. And Scott Drew is among the best in his profession at other aspects of the game. So this is not meant as a bashing post. But we play the style and level of defense that the staff coaches and accepts -- and Drew's full body of work suggests that we will be closer to average than elite on that end of the floor most years.

bear2be2 said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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Also, it's not like Cryer has transformed into a good defender. I've watched several of UH's games, mostly out of curiosity for how their using LJ, but also because they're damn good. UH hides LJ on defense. He's guarding off-ball, usually assigned to the least threatening opposing offensive player. When they play us, I'd imagine he'd be assigned Nunn, and I hope Jayden plays like he did last night, because that's a massive advantage for us if he can.

This year, Cryer gives a damn on the defensive end, which is way more than I could ever say about him here. Kudos to Sampson for bringing that out in him. But it's clear he's on the court because he's an elite shooter, not because he all of the sudden willed himself into becoming an even average defender.

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EDIT -- ignore the emoji. That was a fat-thumbed mistake.

I don't think anyone is saying LJ has become a great, or even good, individual defender. The point is he -- with all of his deficiencies on the defensive end of the floor -- can be part of an elite defensive team when playing for a coach that demands it.

I think some of us (myself included) got fooled by our 2020 and 2021 teams into believing that Drew had turned a major corner as a defensive coach. But the three years sense would suggest our success on that end of the floor was more a product of the players on those teams than some newfound defensive standard at the top.

Kelvin Sampson's defenses are elite year in and year out because a) he's a really good at teaching team defense and b) he won't tolerate anything less. We likely aspire to that standard, but it's clear by the number of times a game we bust in both the halfcourt and transition (two players picking up the same guy while leaving another unguarded, failing to stop the ball, losing a cutter, etc.) that we don't demand it.

We demand that excellence in other areas. And Scott Drew is among the best in his profession at other aspects of the game. So this is not meant as a bashing post. But we play the style and level of defense that the staff coaches and accepts -- and Drew's full body of work suggests that we will be closer to average than elite on that end of the floor most years.

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If LJ is a better defender this year, it may be because of better motivation, better system for him, or, the fact he is finally healthy after a couple of foot surgeries. When I first watched Cryer in games at Baylor, I noticed the speed of his game which I did not see at all the last year or so. Not much you can do with a slow footed 6-1 guard, imo. I am happy for him and kudos for coming through all that.

I noticed in Kenpom our defensive rating has been getting better the past couple of weeks--down to the high 60s which is pretty good-sized drop. We are getting better defensively. Looking back over the 10-15 years, Baylor has been in the 30-60 range on adjusted defense (we were actually higher rated in the year after the NC and a couple of years in the Zone era). No we are not nearly as good as Houston defensively. Houston's problem, akin to a number of hyper defensive teams over the years, is the inability to make shots at times on offense (which is why UH went after Cryer). I remember an interview of Tom Landry (pardon the Football analogy) during the Aikman years, when he was asked what he thought of the Cowboy defense. Landry, who in my view was a great defensive mind, pointed out that the Cowboy-Aikman offense was so good, it put more pressure on the opposing offense. This, in my view is what Baylor does. If Baylor makes shots, it takes away transition points from a team like UH or Tennessee, which depends so much on them.

bear2be2 said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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Also, it's not like Cryer has transformed into a good defender. I've watched several of UH's games, mostly out of curiosity for how their using LJ, but also because they're damn good. UH hides LJ on defense. He's guarding off-ball, usually assigned to the least threatening opposing offensive player. When they play us, I'd imagine he'd be assigned Nunn, and I hope Jayden plays like he did last night, because that's a massive advantage for us if he can.

This year, Cryer gives a damn on the defensive end, which is way more than I could ever say about him here. Kudos to Sampson for bringing that out in him. But it's clear he's on the court because he's an elite shooter, not because he all of the sudden willed himself into becoming an even average defender.

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I think some of us (myself included) got fooled by our 2021 team into believing that Aranda had turned a major corner as a defensive coach. But the two years since would suggest our success on that end of the field was more a product of the players on those teams than some newfound defensive standard at the top.

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This is like Mad Libs for Baylor sports. This template could work for basketball or football.

TWD 1974 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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Also, it's not like Cryer has transformed into a good defender. I've watched several of UH's games, mostly out of curiosity for how their using LJ, but also because they're damn good. UH hides LJ on defense. He's guarding off-ball, usually assigned to the least threatening opposing offensive player. When they play us, I'd imagine he'd be assigned Nunn, and I hope Jayden plays like he did last night, because that's a massive advantage for us if he can.

This year, Cryer gives a damn on the defensive end, which is way more than I could ever say about him here. Kudos to Sampson for bringing that out in him. But it's clear he's on the court because he's an elite shooter, not because he all of the sudden willed himself into becoming an even average defender.

---

EDIT -- ignore the emoji. That was a fat-thumbed mistake.

I don't think anyone is saying LJ has become a great, or even good, individual defender. The point is he -- with all of his deficiencies on the defensive end of the floor -- can be part of an elite defensive team when playing for a coach that demands it.

I think some of us (myself included) got fooled by our 2020 and 2021 teams into believing that Drew had turned a major corner as a defensive coach. But the three years sense would suggest our success on that end of the floor was more a product of the players on those teams than some newfound defensive standard at the top.

Kelvin Sampson's defenses are elite year in and year out because a) he's a really good at teaching team defense and b) he won't tolerate anything less. We likely aspire to that standard, but it's clear by the number of times a game we bust in both the halfcourt and transition (two players picking up the same guy while leaving another unguarded, failing to stop the ball, losing a cutter, etc.) that we don't demand it.

We demand that excellence in other areas. And Scott Drew is among the best in his profession at other aspects of the game. So this is not meant as a bashing post. But we play the style and level of defense that the staff coaches and accepts -- and Drew's full body of work suggests that we will be closer to average than elite on that end of the floor most years.

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If LJ is a better defender this year, it may be because of better motivation, better system for him, or, the fact he is finally healthy after a couple of foot surgeries. When I first watched Cryer in games at Baylor, I noticed the speed of his game which I did not see at all the last year or so. Not much you can do with a slow footed 6-1 guard, imo. I am happy for him and kudos for coming through all that.

I noticed in Kenpom our defensive rating has been getting better the past couple of weeks--down to the high 60s which is pretty good-sized drop. We are getting better defensively. Looking back over the 10-15 years, Baylor has been in the 30-60 range on adjusted defense (we were actually higher rated in the year after the NC and a couple of years in the Zone era). No we are not nearly as good as Houston defensively. Houston's problem, akin to a number of hyper defensive teams over the years, is the inability to make shots at times on offense (which is why UH went after Cryer). I remember an interview of Tom Landry (pardon the Football analogy) during the Aikman years, when he was asked what he thought of the Cowboy defense. Landry, who in my view was a great defensive mind, pointed out that the Cowboy-Aikman offense was so good, it put more pressure on the opposing offense. This, in my view is what Baylor does. If Baylor makes shots, it takes away transition points from a team like UH or Tennessee, which depends so much on them.

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It's funny because as critical as my last two posts might appear, I'm actually higher on this year's defense than many -- if not most -- here. I've consistently pushed back against the notion that this is a terrible defensive team, using the same KenPom rankings you cite here as evidence.

I don't think Scott Drew is a terrible defensive coach or that our defense is inept. I just think it's generally closer to average than great. And if we want to get back to the point where we're competing for Final Four appearances and championships, that will likely have to change.

Agreed. Oftentimes our defense is very good. But it's inconsistent and it's not great.

TWD 1974 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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Also, it's not like Cryer has transformed into a good defender. I've watched several of UH's games, mostly out of curiosity for how their using LJ, but also because they're damn good. UH hides LJ on defense. He's guarding off-ball, usually assigned to the least threatening opposing offensive player. When they play us, I'd imagine he'd be assigned Nunn, and I hope Jayden plays like he did last night, because that's a massive advantage for us if he can.

This year, Cryer gives a damn on the defensive end, which is way more than I could ever say about him here. Kudos to Sampson for bringing that out in him. But it's clear he's on the court because he's an elite shooter, not because he all of the sudden willed himself into becoming an even average defender.

---

EDIT -- ignore the emoji. That was a fat-thumbed mistake.

I don't think anyone is saying LJ has become a great, or even good, individual defender. The point is he -- with all of his deficiencies on the defensive end of the floor -- can be part of an elite defensive team when playing for a coach that demands it.

I think some of us (myself included) got fooled by our 2020 and 2021 teams into believing that Drew had turned a major corner as a defensive coach. But the three years sense would suggest our success on that end of the floor was more a product of the players on those teams than some newfound defensive standard at the top.

Kelvin Sampson's defenses are elite year in and year out because a) he's a really good at teaching team defense and b) he won't tolerate anything less. We likely aspire to that standard, but it's clear by the number of times a game we bust in both the halfcourt and transition (two players picking up the same guy while leaving another unguarded, failing to stop the ball, losing a cutter, etc.) that we don't demand it.

We demand that excellence in other areas. And Scott Drew is among the best in his profession at other aspects of the game. So this is not meant as a bashing post. But we play the style and level of defense that the staff coaches and accepts -- and Drew's full body of work suggests that we will be closer to average than elite on that end of the floor most years.

---

If LJ is a better defender this year, it may be because of better motivation, better system for him, or, the fact he is finally healthy after a couple of foot surgeries. When I first watched Cryer in games at Baylor, I noticed the speed of his game which I did not see at all the last year or so. Not much you can do with a slow footed 6-1 guard, imo. I am happy for him and kudos for coming through all that.

I noticed in Kenpom our defensive rating has been getting better the past couple of weeks--down to the high 60s which is pretty good-sized drop. We are getting better defensively. Looking back over the 10-15 years, Baylor has been in the 30-60 range on adjusted defense (we were actually higher rated in the year after the NC and a couple of years in the Zone era). No we are not nearly as good as Houston defensively. Houston's problem, akin to a number of hyper defensive teams over the years, is the inability to make shots at times on offense (which is why UH went after Cryer). I remember an interview of Tom Landry (pardon the Football analogy) during the Aikman years, when he was asked what he thought of the Cowboy defense. Landry, who in my view was a great defensive mind, pointed out that the Cowboy-Aikman offense was so good, it put more pressure on the opposing offense. This, in my view is what Baylor does. If Baylor makes shots, it takes away transition points from a team like UH or Tennessee, which depends so much on them.

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The foot injuries were undoubtedly part of it. It's hard to defend anyone when both feet are injured. But he also didn't really care about 60-70% of the time. Contrast his defensive possessions last season with Langston Love's. Langston didn't have the lateral quickness to stay in front of most guards (he's a bit better this year, but it's still a weakness), but he still gave effort and hustled. I didn't see much hustle or effort on defense from LJ last year.

boognish_bear said:

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Caption this: pic.twitter.com/RRwWdook3C

— Jackson Payne (@jackson5payne) January 10, 2024

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Assistant coach gets wet?

TWD 1974 said:

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I noticed in Kenpom our defensive rating has been getting better the past couple of weeks--down to the high 60s which is pretty good-sized drop. We are getting better defensively. Looking back over the 10-15 years, Baylor has been in the 30-60 range on adjusted defense (we were actually higher rated in the year after the NC and a couple of years in the Zone era). No we are not nearly as good as Houston defensively. Houston's problem, akin to a number of hyper defensive teams over the years, is the inability to make shots at times on offense (which is why UH went after Cryer). I remember an interview of Tom Landry (pardon the Football analogy) during the Aikman years, when he was asked what he thought of the Cowboy defense. Landry, who in my view was a great defensive mind, pointed out that the Cowboy-Aikman offense was so good, it put more pressure on the opposing offense. This, in my view is what Baylor does. If Baylor makes shots, it takes away transition points from a team like UH or Tennessee, which depends so much on them.

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Good post. I would also point out that Baylor's offense often requires the other team to push on offense. Teams don't just get down by 12 or 14 and keep doing the same thing. So PPG will be higher.

We saw this with Briles' teams. PPG for the defense was high because the other team had to score to keep up.

I personally feel like defense is a more reliable as a team attribute, but a defensive oriented team is not likely to shoot themselves out of a bad night. We saw that versus UH in the Final Four. They couldn't stop us and they definitely didn't have the horses to keep up. At least a good offense has a chance to just outscore the other team.