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Baylor Basketball

MBB: Baylor (5-2) at Wichita St (3-3) Preview & Game Thread

November 29, 2018
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Baylor (5-2) travels to Wichita State (3-3) Saturday December 1st at 7pm CST.  The game is televised on CBS Sports Television.   The Bears lost to Wichita State last year in Waco 69-62.  

KenPom Rankings

Wichita State:  86 overall; 66 offensive efficiency; 115 defensive efficiency

Baylor:  58 overall; 84 offensive efficiency; 54 defensive efficiency

Prediction:  Wichita State 71 Baylor 70

Coaches

Wichita State:  Gregg Marshall (55); 483-183 overall (289-100 at WSU); 14 NCAAs; 2 Sweet 16s; 1 Elite 8s; 1 Final 4

Baylor:  Scott Drew (48); 323-207 overall (303-196 at Baylor); 7 NCAAs; 4 Sweet 16s; 2 Elite 8s

Wichita State Starters

PG:  Samaje Haynes-Jones (SR) 6-0 180 lbs; 12 ppg; 4 asst; 35% FG; 31% 3pt; 80% FT

SG:  Ricky Torres (JR) 6-2 190 lbs; 1 ppg; 2 reb; 2 asst; 18% FG; 0% 3pt; 100% FT

SF:  Dexter Dennis (FR); 6-5 200 lbs; 9 ppg; 4 reb; 49% FG; 47% 3pt; 64% FT

PF:  Markis McDuffie (SR); 6-8 220 lbs; 20 ppg; 4 reb; 51% FG; 47% 3pt; 71% FT

C:  James Echenique (JR) 6-11 260 lbs; 9 ppg; 6 reb; 60% FG; 57% 3pt; 58% FT

Wichita State Bench

G:  Erik Stevenson (FR); 6-3 210 lbs; 10 ppg; 5 reb; 2 asst; 33% FG; 32% 3pt; 68% FT

G:  Jamarius Burton (FR) 6-4 210 lbs; 6 ppg; 4 reb; 3 asst; 41% FG; 60% FT

F:  Morris Udeze (FR) 6-8 255 lbs;  5 ppg; 3 reb; 70% FG

Baylor Starting Line-up

PG:  Makai Mason (SR) 6-1 180 lbs; 14 ppg; 3 asst; 42% FG; 33% 3pt; 83% FT

SG:  King McClure (SR) 6-3 215 lbs; 14 ppg; 6 reb; 3 asst; 51% FG; 44% 3pt; 75% FT

SF:  Mario Kegler (SO) 6-7 230 lbs; 12 ppg; 6 reb; 3 blks; 36% FG; 17% 3pt; 38% FT

PF:  Mark Vital (SO) 6-5 230 lbs; 5 ppg; 7 reb; 2 asst; 32% FG; 33% 3pt; 46% FT

C:  Tristan Clark (SO) 6-9 250 lbs; 14 ppg; 5 reb; 3 blks; 78% FG; 100% 3pt; 72% FT

Baylor Bench

G:  Devonte Bandoo (JR) 6-3 195 lbs; 9 ppg;  2 reb; 54% FG; 41% 3pt; 100% FT

G:  Jared Butler (FR) 6-3 185 lbs; 8 ppg; 3 reb; 1 asst; 32% FG; 21% 3pt; 88% FT

F:  Matthew Mayer (FR) 6-9 200 lbs; 8 ppg; 4 reb; 36% FG; 33% 3pt; 71% FT

Discussion from...

MBB: Baylor (5-2) at Wichita St (3-3) Preview & Game Thread

33,951 Views | 180 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by T-REX
Illinois Bear
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9:06p, 12/1/18
Mason should be selling pretzels in the stands. What a joke.
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Oldbear83
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In reply to GarlandBear84 • 9:07p, 12/1/18
GarlandBear84 said:
Got to credit the guys for playing much better this half.
Maybe give some credit to Drew?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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gobears20
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9:07p, 12/1/18
Staff
I thought Mario would be better hopefully it's just because he was hurt
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OsoVerde
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In reply to possible12 • 9:08p, 12/1/18
I think he would have kept things from getting out of hand. He for the most part takes care of the ball and settles others down.
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BaylorOkie
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In reply to rudylaw • 9:08p, 12/1/18
rudylaw said:
Welp, at least the gave them a thrill. Horrendous decisions by Kegler and Mason to salt it away.
Those two have to:
1. Play in games, and
2. Be better.
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gobears20
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9:09p, 12/1/18
Staff
Baylor down 65-59

1:34
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possible12
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9:09p, 12/1/18
Hate to be at Marshall's next practice.
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whitetrash
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9:11p, 12/1/18
Vital was more set that Zoubek on that blocking call.
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rudylaw
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9:12p, 12/1/18
As always, dig smaller holes. God, they merely play a poor first half and this is a win.
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Johnny Bear
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9:14p, 12/1/18
Admire the second half fight, but that first half was completely inexcusable.
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gobears20
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9:15p, 12/1/18
Staff

Baylor loses to Wichita State 71-63

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Illinois Bear
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9:15p, 12/1/18
Kegler couldn't throw the ball into the ocean if he was standing on the beach. Sweet Jesus.
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gobears20
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9:16p, 12/1/18
Staff
Nice comeback but you don't fall behind by 33 to a 3-3
Team

Need to get this cleaned up because it will get a lot harder
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DST
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9:16p, 12/1/18
Good job to even make it a game. That's grit. Still a long ways to.
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gobears20
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9:18p, 12/1/18
Staff
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possible12
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9:24p, 12/1/18
Koch Arena can be overwhelming. Bunch of inexperienced had no idea what they were walking into.

Maybe will help down road if a learning type group.
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EGOTbear
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9:25p, 12/1/18
no impressed when comeback

Meaningless and another L. Will be terrible non-conference
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possible12
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 9:30p, 12/1/18
Oldbear83 said:
GarlandBear84 said:
Got to credit the guys for playing much better this half.
Maybe give some credit to Drew?
For not having them ready to play? Enough credit to go around.
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JusHappy2BeHere
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In reply to BaylorOkie • 9:34p, 12/1/18
BaylorOkie said:
rudylaw said:
Welp, at least the gave them a thrill. Horrendous decisions by Kegler and Mason to salt it away.
Those two have to:
1. Play in games, and
2. Be better.
This team is severely offensively challenged.... If those two don't score efficiently we are going to struggle to get points against anyone, much less good teams....

also, get the ball to Clark more often, early in the game
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always."

Mahatma Gandhi
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Oldbear83
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In reply to possible12 • 9:43p, 12/1/18
possible12 said:
Oldbear83 said:
GarlandBear84 said:
Got to credit the guys for playing much better this half.
Maybe give some credit to Drew?
For not having them ready to play? Enough credit to go around.
Bears did really well in the second half. And from what I saw against TSU and other SWAC teams the Bears played, tonight's start was no shock.

We'll be fine. No NCAA run this year, but I figure a 6th place finish is about right, with an NIT bid.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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bularry
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11:10p, 12/1/18
We'll be lucky to be 8th in our league
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Eball
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6:43a, 12/2/18
I can't believe the lack of faith in Drew...and the lack of patience overall with this group...it is a long season and there is a reason the games are played...we have a lot to play for and barring injuries and other unforeseen consequences we have the pieces and the coach to compete again this year.
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Oldbear83
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In reply to Eball • 11:10a, 12/2/18
Eball said:
I can't believe the lack of faith in Drew...and the lack of patience overall with this group...it is a long season and there is a reason the games are played...we have a lot to play for and barring injuries and other unforeseen consequences we have the pieces and the coach to compete again this year.
Especially given Drew's record of success here.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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xiledinok
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11:53a, 12/2/18
A glued and stapled together roster is mid major roster building method that occasionally works. There's at least a recruiting class or two to fix it.
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Illinois Bear
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In reply to Eball • 12:35p, 12/2/18
Eball said:
I can't believe the lack of faith in Drew...and the lack of patience overall with this group...it is a long season and there is a reason the games are played...we have a lot to play for and barring injuries and other unforeseen consequences we have the pieces and the coach to compete again this year.


This.
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Johnny Bear
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 12:57p, 12/3/18
Oldbear83 said:
possible12 said:
Oldbear83 said:
GarlandBear84 said:
Got to credit the guys for playing much better this half.
Maybe give some credit to Drew?
For not having them ready to play? Enough credit to go around.
Bears did really well in the second half. And from what I saw against TSU and other SWAC teams the Bears played, tonight's start was no shock.

We'll be fine. No NCAA run this year, but I figure a 6th place finish is about right, with an NIT bid.
It continues to confuse me as to why our general "expectation level" is so much lower for men's bball than it is for just about any other sport at BU. The above post is an example of apparently how a lot of our fans tend to feel (i.e. finishing 6th in the Big 12 with a bid to a tallest midget tournament otherwise known as the NIT means we're "fine"). As time goes on I continue to not understand this mentality more and more.
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Oldbear83
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In reply to Johnny Bear • 1:28p, 12/3/18
Johnny Bear said:
Oldbear83 said:
possible12 said:
Oldbear83 said:
GarlandBear84 said:
Got to credit the guys for playing much better this half.
Maybe give some credit to Drew?
For not having them ready to play? Enough credit to go around.
Bears did really well in the second half. And from what I saw against TSU and other SWAC teams the Bears played, tonight's start was no shock.

We'll be fine. No NCAA run this year, but I figure a 6th place finish is about right, with an NIT bid.
It continues to confuse me as to why our general "expectation level" is so much lower for men's bball than it is for just about any other sport at BU. The above post is an example of apparently how a lot of our fans tend to feel (i.e. finishing 6th in the Big 12 with a bid to a tallest midget tournament otherwise known as the NIT means we're "fine"). As time goes on I continue to not understand this mentality more and more.
It's not that expectations are lower for MBB, but simple acknowledgement that Drew has accomplished great things, including some seasons where the start was not promising. There are 30+ games in a BB season, and Drew is working with new guys.

Anyone who knows what Drew has done in the past, understands he's going to get the team where they need to be. This is a down year, that happens in all sports.

It's different with FB (assuming that's where you were comparing 'expectations'). Rhule is only in year 2, and frankly most of our FB hires post-Teaff have been train wrecks. Doubt is reasonable in that case, even though Rhule achieved success at Temple, because Temple is not in a P5 conference and Football here is way different from up North. But with the bowl berth, Rhule has shown his ability to succeed here, and fans will be able to relax and trust in Rhule's system going forward, because he has shown he can win.

I can't help the people still afflicted with Drew-hate, but that's a whole different psychosis.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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Aliceinbubbleland
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 10:14p, 12/3/18
Oldbear83 said:
possible12 said:
Oldbear83 said:
GarlandBear84 said:
Got to credit the guys for playing much better this half.
Maybe give some credit to Drew?
For not having them ready to play? Enough credit to go around.
Bears did really well in the second half. And from what I saw against TSU and other SWAC teams the Bears played, tonight's start was no shock.

We'll be fine. No NCAA run this year, but I figure a 6th place finish is about right, with an NIT bid.
That's getting really old.
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Johnny Bear
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 12:38p, 12/4/18
Oldbear83 said:
Johnny Bear said:
Oldbear83 said:
possible12 said:
Oldbear83 said:
GarlandBear84 said:
Got to credit the guys for playing much better this half.
Maybe give some credit to Drew?
For not having them ready to play? Enough credit to go around.
Bears did really well in the second half. And from what I saw against TSU and other SWAC teams the Bears played, tonight's start was no shock.

We'll be fine. No NCAA run this year, but I figure a 6th place finish is about right, with an NIT bid.
It continues to confuse me as to why our general "expectation level" is so much lower for men's bball than it is for just about any other sport at BU. The above post is an example of apparently how a lot of our fans tend to feel (i.e. finishing 6th in the Big 12 with a bid to a tallest midget tournament otherwise known as the NIT means we're "fine"). As time goes on I continue to not understand this mentality more and more.
It's not that expectations are lower for MBB, but simple acknowledgement that Drew has accomplished great things, including some seasons where the start was not promising. There are 30+ games in a BB season, and Drew is working with new guys.

Anyone who knows what Drew has done in the past, understands he's going to get the team where they need to be. This is a down year, that happens in all sports.

It's different with FB (assuming that's where you were comparing 'expectations'). Rhule is only in year 2, and frankly most of our FB hires post-Teaff have been train wrecks. Doubt is reasonable in that case, even though Rhule achieved success at Temple, because Temple is not in a P5 conference and Football here is way different from up North. But with the bowl berth, Rhule has shown his ability to succeed here, and fans will be able to relax and trust in Rhule's system going forward, because he has shown he can win.

I can't help the people still afflicted with Drew-hate, but that's a whole different psychosis.
I'm comparing it (i.e. the expectation level) to virtually all of our other sports (men's and women's) - not just football. As an example, not that long ago we fired (very justifiably in my view) a baseball coach who had 3 Big 12 season titles, a CWS semi-final finish, and scores of other post season appearances. If you're inferring that I'm a "Drew hater", I'm not and I appreciate the accomplishments that he does have, but at the same time it's just always been odd to me that so many of our fans are fine with constantly finishing 3rd or lower in the Big 12 and simply getting into the post season. Just seems like we should be somewhere beyond that at this point after 15 seasons with the same HC and not only are we not beyond that - we're trending in the opposite direction, at least lately. I'm not saying let's fire Drew, but when you consider how recruiting has fallen off in recent years (making us overly dependent on transfers) and how fan interest in the program is presently heading south, at what point does his seat start to at least get warm?
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GarlandBear84
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In reply to Johnny Bear • 12:50p, 12/4/18
I'm curious why you think BU should have a better basketball program than Kansas, Iowa State, UT and Kansas State. With their tradition, fan interest, attendance, facility, budget, they ought to fire a coach who doesn't finish ahead of BU. Our fan interest in basketball pales in comparison with football. These are the reasons I'm content with being third-fifth.
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possible12
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In reply to GarlandBear84 • 1:29p, 12/4/18
GarlandBear84 said:
I'm curious why you think BU should have a better basketball program than Kansas, Iowa State, UT and Kansas State. With their tradition, fan interest, attendance, facility, budget, they ought to fire a coach who doesn't finish ahead of BU. Our fan interest in basketball pales in comparison with football. These are the reasons I'm content with being third-fifth.
logical and realistic.
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Aliceinbubbleland
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In reply to xiledinok • 1:57p, 12/4/18
xiledinok said:
A glued and stapled together roster is mid major roster building method that occasionally works. There's at least a recruiting class or two to fix it.
They say that every year. It seems like we just get new projects and start over only to return to the same pattern.

Streak wins or losses, surprise everyone sometimes at the Conference Championships and then tuck tail and go home.

As to fan interest we would have a lot more if the team would win some really big games at home consistently.
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setshot
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2:25p, 12/4/18
Conference titles are important markers for the quality of a program, and conference tournaments, as well. The dominance of the Lady Bear program over the past eight years seems to be almost taken for granted, these days, much as the Kansas men's program is, and for good reasons.

But basketball has a redemptive process in place for quality teams that are not conference champions, and that is the NCAA Tournament. For decades the Tournament did not take teams who were not conference champions, and the number of teams participating in the post season was severely limited. When Baylor made the Final Four in 1948 and 1950, only eight teams participated in the NCAA Tournament at that time. One year, in the heyday of John Wooden's UCLA teams, the #2 team in the country, USC, sat at home while their crosstown rival, with whom they had split the regular season series, promenaded to another national championship. That omission helped spur a more inclusive Tournament later on.

Drew is in a situation where everything would have to break perfectly for Baylor to compete for a conference championship. It did so not too long ago when for the first time in its history Baylor won a #1 ranking in the country, only to lose it a few days later in Morgantown to a team with whom we were poorly matched, and particularly so on their home floor. I need not recount the kinds of officiating that take place when teams go into Lawrence to take on the Jayhawks, since it has often been a source of commentary here, but it reaffirms the requirement that a team has to have more than high quality to win a Big 12 championship.

Baylor is not a very good team this year because they have not had success getting a big time recruit here in the past couple of years, and while our current group has some talent, it does not seem to have developed the chemistry to make that talent better as a unit than it seems to be as individuals. That can change, but our lack of quality and size in the front line, and the absence of depth there, severely limits us. Vital is undersized and Kegler is not yet in playing shape, but those are the two players we are depending on, other than Clark, a fine young prospect who is still growing into his role. If we do not add two or three quality players next season, at least one of whom has size and skill, we will still struggle up ahead. This is a tough league and we haven't much margin for error, it seems.

And, yes, the lack of fan support for basketball in this state is a problem, and especially so for Baylor. Without a huge turnout thundering down on those officials, they will not give Baylor as many of those 50/50 calls as they do for the teams in the hothouse environment to the north of us. I don't have an answer for that, but a new arena, smaller and more fan friendly, will help at least a little.
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possible12
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In reply to setshot • 9:01p, 12/4/18
setshot said:
Conference titles are important markers for the quality of a program, and conference tournaments, as well. The dominance of the Lady Bear program over the past eight years seems to be almost taken for granted, these days, much as the Kansas men's program is, and for good reasons.

But basketball has a redemptive process in place for quality teams that are not conference champions, and that is the NCAA Tournament. For decades the Tournament did not take teams who were not conference champions, and the number of teams participating in the post season was severely limited. When Baylor made the Final Four in 1948 and 1950, only eight teams participated in the NCAA Tournament at that time. One year, in the heyday of John Wooden's UCLA teams, the #2 team in the country, USC, sat at home while their crosstown rival, with whom they had split the regular season series, promenaded to another national championship. That omission helped spur a more inclusive Tournament later on.

Drew is in a situation where everything would have to break perfectly for Baylor to compete for a conference championship. It did so not too long ago when for the first time in its history Baylor won a #1 ranking in the country, only to lose it a few days later in Morgantown to a team with whom we were poorly matched, and particularly so on their home floor. I need not recount the kinds of officiating that take place when teams go into Lawrence to take on the Jayhawks, since it has often been a source of commentary here, but it reaffirms the requirement that a team has to have more than high quality to win a Big 12 championship.

Baylor is not a very good team this year because they have not had success getting a big time recruit here in the past couple of years, and while our current group has some talent, it does not seem to have developed the chemistry to make that talent better as a unit than it seems to be as individuals. That can change, but our lack of quality and size in the front line, and the absence of depth there, severely limits us. Vital is undersized and Kegler is not yet in playing shape, but those are the two players we are depending on, other than Clark, a fine young prospect who is still growing into his role. If we do not add two or three quality players next season, at least one of whom has size and skill, we will still struggle up ahead. This is a tough league and we haven't much margin for error, it seems.

And, yes, the lack of fan support for basketball in this state is a problem, and especially so for Baylor. Without a huge turnout thundering down on those officials, they will not give Baylor as many of those 50/50 calls as they do for the teams in the hothouse environment to the north of us. I don't have an answer for that, but a new arena, smaller and more fan friendly, will help at least a little.
Actually, they lost to OSU at Ferrell the first day they were ranked number 1
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setshot
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10:38p, 12/4/18
We remember it differently, but I have been wrong before.
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