Decline of fast food

4,765 Views | 62 Replies | Last: 9 mo ago by Redbrickbear
BaylorGuy314
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Random post and mostly rant.

My daughter had soccer practice out of town tonight. Soccer nights are late nights (by kid standards) so we decided to just grab fast food on the way home, which we don't do often.

First place we go to looks open. Short line in the drive thru. Walk inside. People are working in the kitchen but no one is eating at any tables. my daughter and I stand at the counter deciding what to eat for about 5 minutes before someone finally walks up and goes "Sorry, we are closed inside because we are really short staffed."

Ok, I get it, onto the next place.

We stop by JITB. Not my first choice but it's one exit down the road. I walk in and the music is blaring like I was standing front row at a rock concert. Lights are so dim that you could fall asleep in the corner. A worker is sitting in the far corner (in the dark) playing on their phone. Place is disgustingly filthy. I hear workers singing loudly from the back and then one lady curses loudly at another woman from somewhere in the kitchen. I wait for a few more minutes, realize no one is going to serve us anytime soon (and I'm not sure I want to eat in a dirty restaurant where I can barely see my food and where my eardrums are in pain), so my daughter and I leave.

A few exits down is a Burger King. Walk in. No one is at the counter. One guy is sitting - clearly waiting for his food. No one else is in the joint. After waiting a few minutes, I ask the guy sitting if anyone is taking orders and he says "Yea, but I've been waiting forever." I wait for another couple of minutes and leave.

Finally, I stop at Taco Bell a few miles down the road. At this point I've all but given up. My colon is already mad I even stopped here. Not much help at the counter but the place looks organized, clean, and well lit. I place my order on the self-service console. I get my food surprisingly quickly and the employee serving the food is friendly. Success! But no...my daughters order is completely jacked up (not even close to what I ordered) and I had not one but two long pieces of hair in my food. I bring it up to the employee (who was so friendly earlier) and they look at my receipt, at the food, and then just huff off frustrated. Never said a word. I get the food back a second time. Order is still messed up. I eat some of it and while the hair in the food isn't the grossest thing in the world to me, it screwed up my appetite so we finish what we can and leave.

Bad hourly wages and mindless work are certainly at play here. But I actually wonder if it's just as much the absentee owner concept that is causing so much of this bad service. The average McDonalds owner has 8 locations. Many have more. I'm not sure what the stats are for the other fast food chains but it's clear the owners are (generally) absentee - only checking in with managers on a weekly (or so) basis. They have zero idea how their stores are run most of the time. Managers are making $20/hour if they are lucky so they aren't exactly the most motivated people. A good one won't stick around for long. If you happen to have a really good employee, the owner likely has no idea whether they are good or bad because they aren't there. The rare good fast food employee gets overworked, underappreciated and gets tired of the "I don't give a damn" of their fellow coworkers, so they move on (because they care).

Contrast that with CFA where you have operators that quasi-own the store. They share in it's profitability and are working side by side with the staff daily. They know the staff. They know what they are going through. They care about the store. They care about the employees. The operators make good money. Because the product is good and because the stores are clean and well run, the stores make good money and can provide better than average compensation to the employees so the good ones actually stick around for a while.

The quality was bad before COVID and has gotten to such poor levels now that I only eat fast food when I have to. How much worse can it get? How do the operators of these chains and the owners of these stores have so little interest in what they own? It's mind boggling to me.
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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Chick-Fil-A! If you can get past their demonic outlook on life, you will get great food and great service and be on your way quickly.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
Fat Daddy
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BaylorGuy314…. Your post is exactly why Shipley's should be open 24/7….
william
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POE.
Redbrickbear
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For what its worth eating out by Americas is at a low.

Big declines since a decade ago.

Forced Covid lockdowns also started a renaissance of Americans cooking and eating at home.

https://tsgwm.com/why-americans-are-eating-out-less-than-ever/

[According to a 2018 report by the NPD Group, about 82% of meals and snacks are prepared at home significantly more than a decade ago. And despite a relatively strong economy, the estimated number of per-person restaurant visits (from fast food to fine dining) dropped to a 28-year low... ]
fadskier
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People don't want to work...especially the younger generation.
Salute the Marines - Joe Biden
KaiBear
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Chick-Fil-A! If you can get past their demonic outlook on life, you will get great food and great service and be on your way quickly.


Agreed

My wife tolerates bad service, I don't .

Even regular restaurants often have surly employees ( especially the younger hostesses.

Tattooed , face piercings with yellow hair hostesses are not uncommon. Usually they have a horrible attitude . As if they hate their job, their life and anyone within 20ft .

Bearmanly
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fadskier said:

People don't want to work...especially the younger generation.


So sick of hearing this. The issue isn't that no one wants to work. Younger people are just better at recognizing bad employers who take advantage of their workers.
whitetrash
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Bear Apologist said:

fadskier said:

People don't want to work...especially the younger generation.


So sick of hearing this. The issue isn't that no one wants to work. Younger people are just better at recognizing bad employers who take advantage of their workers.
Thank you for your input, Karl.

Bearmanly
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whitetrash said:

Bear Apologist said:

fadskier said:

People don't want to work...especially the younger generation.


So sick of hearing this. The issue isn't that no one wants to work. Younger people are just better at recognizing bad employers who take advantage of their workers.
Thank you for your input, Karl.


A bit non sequitur, don't you think?
Wangchung
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Bear Apologist said:

fadskier said:

People don't want to work...especially the younger generation.


So sick of hearing this. The issue isn't that no one wants to work. Younger people are just better at recognizing bad employers who take advantage of their workers.
That's just the excuse kids use for leaving or halfassing a job as soon as the "new" wears off and it becomes work. There are plenty of great, hard working youth out there, for sure, but the number of absolutely worthless, entitled young Americans is staggering. Nothing is ever their own fault. Show up to work late complaining about traffic but they have a Starbucks in their hand. The disconnect is unreal.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
fadskier
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Bear Apologist said:

fadskier said:

People don't want to work...especially the younger generation.


So sick of hearing this. The issue isn't that no one wants to work. Younger people are just better at recognizing bad employers who take advantage of their workers.
Please explain…
Salute the Marines - Joe Biden
fadskier
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Wangchung said:

Bear Apologist said:

fadskier said:

People don't want to work...especially the younger generation.


So sick of hearing this. The issue isn't that no one wants to work. Younger people are just better at recognizing bad employers who take advantage of their workers.
That's just the excuse kids use for leaving or halfassing a job as soon as the "new" wears off and it becomes work. There are plenty of great, hard working youth out there, for sure, but the number of absolutely worthless, entitled young Americans is staggering. Nothing is ever their own fault. Show up to work late complaining about traffic but they have a Starbucks in their hand. The disconnect is unreal.
I'm retired but got a part time job to stay active. We had a 21 year old quit when he found out that if he was sick and didn't have sick days, he wouldn't get paid for that day…I tried to explain it to him but he just said it wasn't fair so he quit.
Salute the Marines - Joe Biden
Bearmanly
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fadskier said:

Wangchung said:

Bear Apologist said:

fadskier said:

People don't want to work...especially the younger generation.


So sick of hearing this. The issue isn't that no one wants to work. Younger people are just better at recognizing bad employers who take advantage of their workers.
That's just the excuse kids use for leaving or halfassing a job as soon as the "new" wears off and it becomes work. There are plenty of great, hard working youth out there, for sure, but the number of absolutely worthless, entitled young Americans is staggering. Nothing is ever their own fault. Show up to work late complaining about traffic but they have a Starbucks in their hand. The disconnect is unreal.
I'm retired but got a part time job to stay active. We had a 21 year old quit when he found out that if he was sick and didn't have sick days, he wouldn't get paid for that day…I tried to explain it to him but he just said it wasn't fair so he quit.


Employees can definitely take advantage of employers too. But I'm also wondering what else is going on in this case. It's not like all the kids these days are choosing homelessness over work. Are their parents letting them move back in? Are their parents still paying all the bills? It seems like there's plenty of blame to go around, even if it's true someone just doesn't want to work. Someone else is enabling them too.
Daveisabovereproach
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It is impossible to pay the bills on a fast food salary. Because of our politician's obsession with printing money and giving it away to corrupt countries to fight other corrupt countries (among other things), the dollar just doesn't buy you much anymore. You don't suddenly turn into a Bolshevist if you admit that wages have not risen proportionally to cost of living in the last 30 years. That's a fact. And yes, some young people are lazy, but most don't mind working. However, this is a capitalist society, and there is always competition for work. I'm not gonna stay at Taco Bell if Burger King is paying two dollars more an hour. Also, let's be real. No one wants to work fast food. If I had to choose between that and digging a ditch, I guess I would take the indoor job, but both suck.

As for the OP's fast food experience - I eat a lot of fast food, and I have experienced much the same. There is a Popeyes in my town that has closed the dining room since Covid. They take at least 10 to 15 minutes per car in the drive-through. I have never actually placed an order and gotten my food there. I always end up waiting about 10 minutes, seeing the line isn't moving at all, and then leaving. The canes across the street manages to get people through their line super quick, and they always seem to have plenty of staff. Same for the nearby Chick-fil-A.

Part of me feels that some of these companies that complain about no one wanting to work secretly enjoy being understaffed so that they can increase profit margins
Oldbear83
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Chick-Fil-A! If you can get past their demonic outlook on life, you will get great food and great service and be on your way quickly.
Just hit up an Arby's the first time, and the demons will be wistfully watching you exorcise your hunger with Beef
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
BaylorGuy314
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Fat Daddy said:

BaylorGuy314…. Your post is exactly why Shipley's should be open 24/7….


I dont know how I missed this comment. But yes! Also, a well run shipleys can make really good money. If you can put 3 of them together in a reasonable radius so that you can stay well connected to them, you can make quite a bit of dough.
LIB,MR BEARS
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BaylorGuy314 said:

Random post and mostly rant.

My daughter had soccer practice out of town tonight. Soccer nights are late nights (by kid standards) so we decided to just grab fast food on the way home, which we don't do often.

First place we go to looks open. Short line in the drive thru. Walk inside. People are working in the kitchen but no one is eating at any tables. my daughter and I stand at the counter deciding what to eat for about 5 minutes before someone finally walks up and goes "Sorry, we are closed inside because we are really short staffed."

Ok, I get it, onto the next place.

We stop by JITB. Not my first choice but it's one exit down the road. I walk in and the music is blaring like I was standing front row at a rock concert. Lights are so dim that you could fall asleep in the corner. A worker is sitting in the far corner (in the dark) playing on their phone. Place is disgustingly filthy. I hear workers singing loudly from the back and then one lady curses loudly at another woman from somewhere in the kitchen. I wait for a few more minutes, realize no one is going to serve us anytime soon (and I'm not sure I want to eat in a dirty restaurant where I can barely see my food and where my eardrums are in pain), so my daughter and I leave.

A few exits down is a Burger King. Walk in. No one is at the counter. One guy is sitting - clearly waiting for his food. No one else is in the joint. After waiting a few minutes, I ask the guy sitting if anyone is taking orders and he says "Yea, but I've been waiting forever." I wait for another couple of minutes and leave.

Finally, I stop at Taco Bell a few miles down the road. At this point I've all but given up. My colon is already mad I even stopped here. Not much help at the counter but the place looks organized, clean, and well lit. I place my order on the self-service console. I get my food surprisingly quickly and the employee serving the food is friendly. Success! But no...my daughters order is completely jacked up (not even close to what I ordered) and I had not one but two long pieces of hair in my food. I bring it up to the employee (who was so friendly earlier) and they look at my receipt, at the food, and then just huff off frustrated. Never said a word. I get the food back a second time. Order is still messed up. I eat some of it and while the hair in the food isn't the grossest thing in the world to me, it screwed up my appetite so we finish what we can and leave.

Bad hourly wages and mindless work are certainly at play here. But I actually wonder if it's just as much the absentee owner concept that is causing so much of this bad service. The average McDonalds owner has 8 locations. Many have more. I'm not sure what the stats are for the other fast food chains but it's clear the owners are (generally) absentee - only checking in with managers on a weekly (or so) basis. They have zero idea how their stores are run most of the time. Managers are making $20/hour if they are lucky so they aren't exactly the most motivated people. A good one won't stick around for long. If you happen to have a really good employee, the owner likely has no idea whether they are good or bad because they aren't there. The rare good fast food employee gets overworked, underappreciated and gets tired of the "I don't give a damn" of their fellow coworkers, so they move on (because they care).

Contrast that with CFA where you have operators that quasi-own the store. They share in it's profitability and are working side by side with the staff daily. They know the staff. They know what they are going through. They care about the store. They care about the employees. The operators make good money. Because the product is good and because the stores are clean and well run, the stores make good money and can provide better than average compensation to the employees so the good ones actually stick around for a while.

The quality was bad before COVID and has gotten to such poor levels now that I only eat fast food when I have to. How much worse can it get? How do the operators of these chains and the owners of these stores have so little interest in what they own? It's mind boggling to me.
owners have gotten to the point they are happy when people show up. Showing up is the new standard
LIB,MR BEARS
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Bear Apologist said:

fadskier said:

People don't want to work...especially the younger generation.


So sick of hearing this. The issue isn't that no one wants to work. Younger people are just better at recognizing bad employers who take advantage of their workers.

PUT DOWN THE PHONE AND GET TO WORK
LIB,MR BEARS
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Bear Apologist said:

fadskier said:

Wangchung said:

Bear Apologist said:

fadskier said:

People don't want to work...especially the younger generation.


So sick of hearing this. The issue isn't that no one wants to work. Younger people are just better at recognizing bad employers who take advantage of their workers.
That's just the excuse kids use for leaving or halfassing a job as soon as the "new" wears off and it becomes work. There are plenty of great, hard working youth out there, for sure, but the number of absolutely worthless, entitled young Americans is staggering. Nothing is ever their own fault. Show up to work late complaining about traffic but they have a Starbucks in their hand. The disconnect is unreal.
I'm retired but got a part time job to stay active. We had a 21 year old quit when he found out that if he was sick and didn't have sick days, he wouldn't get paid for that day…I tried to explain it to him but he just said it wasn't fair so he quit.


Employees can definitely take advantage of employers too. But I'm also wondering what else is going on in this case. It's not like all the kids these days are choosing homelessness over work. Are their parents letting them move back in? Are their parents still paying all the bills? It seems like there's plenty of blame to go around, even if it's true someone just doesn't want to work. Someone else is enabling them too.
they don't want to work and many don't want to get their license. Everything they need is in their hand as long as it has a charge and internet connection.

They have grown up with constant stimulation from YouTube shorts and TicToc. Most can't go two minutes without touching their phone much less waiting until break time.
LIB,MR BEARS
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BaylorGuy314 said:

Fat Daddy said:

BaylorGuy314…. Your post is exactly why Shipley's should be open 24/7….


I dont know how I missed this comment. But yes! Also, a well run shipleys can make really good money. If you can put 3 of them together in a reasonable radius so that you can stay well connected to them, you can make quite a bit of dough.
ba dum tsss
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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Oldbear83 said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Chick-Fil-A! If you can get past their demonic outlook on life, you will get great food and great service and be on your way quickly.
Just hit up an Arby's the first time, and the demons will be wistfully watching you exorcise your hunger with Beef
Arby's is a self inflicted wound. Glad you survived.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
nein51
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fadskier said:

People don't want to work...especially the younger generation.

It's not that they don't want to work. It's that fast food workers are either very young and simply lack work ethic that comes with time and/or they are the kids who couldn't finish HS.

That's the most polite way I can find to say most of those places are staffed with dumbasses and HS kids (or literal 15 year olds - it's where most of my 15 year olds friends work).

The "employers take advantage of them" crowd can shove it up their asses. Don't like it? Finish school… learn how to read. Putting lettuce on a taco is just not skilled labor though apparently too hard for some people to get right 100% of the time.
Oldbear83
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Oldbear83 said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Chick-Fil-A! If you can get past their demonic outlook on life, you will get great food and great service and be on your way quickly.
Just hit up an Arby's the first time, and the demons will be wistfully watching you exorcise your hunger with Beef
Arby's is a self inflicted wound. Glad you survived.
At least I had the good sense to stay away from Jack in the Box.

And Arby's is good, especially their Roast Beef n Cheddar.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Daveisabovereproach
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I thought about this some more. Most of the issue is just bad management. A lot of supervisors at these places are just employees that lasted there longer than like six months. See my Popeyes anecdote above. I love their food, but I have only been to one well run Popeyes my entire life. But the canes right across the street from Popeyes in my town? Their food always seems to be solid, employees are fairly attentive, they are well staffed, they get cars through the drive-through quickly. Same story as Chick-fil-A. Same story as In-N-Out. McDonald's? Honestly, usually on point. The common denominator is ownership. You really cannot be super hands off and run a decent restaurant. Also, certain fast food franchises pay their managers very well. I remember reading a couple years back that managers at places like Freddy's and In-N-Out can make close to six figures. I still believe that if you want decent help, you have to be willing to pay. There is a decent amount of competition in the fast food range of pay stubs, and people with ambition generally aren't going to stay working fast food long-term

Also, it has nothing to do with employees being teenagers IMO. Chick-fil-A is run exclusively by teenagers, but their service is usually on point, because there are clear standards that are enforced inside the restaurant. The franchises that are cool with throwing two or three high school dropout stoner types in the back with no supervision and expect to get stuff done are asking for failure.
Daveisabovereproach
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I've always liked Jack-in-the-Box tacos. I know they're basically dog food, but they're still good. I've only eaten Arby's twice in my life, and I had stomach issues both times
Daveisabovereproach
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By the way, some of what is being said here about lack of professionalism can be applied to a lot of other businesses. We had a couple plumbers out at our house today, and one of them thought it was cool to drop the F bomb in front of my wife and toddler in casual conversation. I'm not some pearl clutcher, and I do hear just about every word at work on a regular basis, but when did people start feeling like they could drop all sense of decorum and professionalism in front of customers, and especially in front of children?
nein51
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No Quarterback said:

By the way, some of what is being said here about lack of professionalism can be applied to a lot of other businesses. We had a couple plumbers out at our house today, and one of them thought it was cool to drop the F bomb in front of my wife and toddler in casual conversation. I'm not some pearl clutcher, and I do hear just about every word at work on a regular basis, but when did people start feeling like they could drop all sense of decorum and professionalism in front of customers, and especially in front of children?

I'm in shops every day. I make sailors blush. Shop is a language and sometimes it's easy to forget not everyone speaks it.
BaylorGuy314
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No Quarterback said:

By the way, some of what is being said here about lack of professionalism can be applied to a lot of other businesses. We had a couple plumbers out at our house today, and one of them thought it was cool to drop the F bomb in front of my wife and toddler in casual conversation. I'm not some pearl clutcher, and I do hear just about every word at work on a regular basis, but when did people start feeling like they could drop all sense of decorum and professionalism in front of customers, and especially in front of children?


They're plumbers. Construction trades are required to use foul language. It's part of the residential building code.
Daveisabovereproach
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I guess I just think that a thing that is wrong is wrong regardless of what profession you're in. I'm not going to act like I've never cursed, but come on, have some restraint, especially in somebody else's house around their kid
TechDawgMc
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One thing that really doesn't change much is the basic principle that you get what you pay for. I've watched stores in the post covid world. Ones like CFA, PTerrys, In-n-Out who pay pretty well and treat their employees decently, have no trouble getting good employees and the stores are almost always well run. The ones who are still trying to pay minimum wage and who treat employees like dirt struggle to keep the store open other than drive through.

Nine times out of ten (maybe more), if a store gives lousy service, the fault is with management/ownership.
BaylorGuy314
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No Quarterback said:

I guess I just think that a thing that is wrong is wrong regardless of what profession you're in. I'm not going to act like I've never cursed, but come on, have some restraint, especially in somebody else's house around their kid
I'm not disagreeing with you but most of the guys that work on my job sites would curse in the front of Jesus Christ, himself. They simply do not have a filter.
nein51
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TechDawgMc said:

One thing that really doesn't change much is the basic principle that you get what you pay for. I've watched stores in the post covid world. Ones like CFA, PTerrys, In-n-Out who pay pretty well and treat their employees decently, have no trouble getting good employees and the stores are almost always well run. The ones who are still trying to pay minimum wage and who treat employees like dirt struggle to keep the store open other than drive through.

Nine times out of ten (maybe more), if a store gives lousy service, the fault is with management/ownership.

The Pizza Hut near near my house pays $15/hr to the staff and $25/hr to the drivers and they suck so hard they now contract with doordash to deliver. It's not a pay issue.

The average hourly wage at CFA is right at $16. More than 50% of their employees make 25-40k. Those kids you see there make an average of $10.50/hr.

Let's not make this CFA paying people $20/hr while BK is paying $8. It's just not reality.

I bet if you look at the demographics of a CFA location and a Popeyes location you'll damned sure find a difference.

I live hood adjacent. I'll happily take you to the Popeyes 4 blocks from my house then we can venture to the one 9 miles down the road and we can play "spot the differences". I agree it's almost often about management and ownership…and the expectations of the customer.

FTR the night crew of the BK near my house kills it. Never lets me down.
ABC BEAR
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Bear Apologist said:

fadskier said:

People don't want to work...especially the younger generation.


So sick of hearing this. The issue isn't that no one wants to work. Younger people are just better at recognizing bad employers who take advantage of their workers.
Maybe they take one look at the deductions on their paychecks and equate those lost earnings with welfare payouts.....wondering why they are working to support loafers.
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