So what guru outside of CAB will be available after December.

I doubt Grimes is going anywhere. I doubt he is even on the radar for openings like USF at this point. I doubt Aranda would fire him. But who knows he fired Fedora quickly and there were all sorts of reasons the offense was bad that year that had nothing to do with Fedora. But I think Aranda should go with an offensive philosophy more similar to TCU's which is of course a copy of what we brought to the conference in the first place.

Grimes will still be here barring some weird situation

I still contend it's more Shapen and his liabilities over Grimes.

It's 100% Shapen. He handicaps the crap out of our playcalling because he's so limited

I assume Grimes chose him as the starter. So Shapen is on him if so. I don't think blaming Shapen's abilities are a valid defense if Grimes.

His situational playcalling is baffling at best.

Pitching to the short side against a team with speed on the ends? Even a junior high coach knows that's terrible.

He's killing our kids and their chance for success.

Grimes had one great QB make him look better than he was at BYU.

He's garbage, folks. Absolute garbage.

Well, seeing that the OC AND THE HEAD COACH made the call to start Shapen over a proven winner, Bohanon, shouldn't they BOTH bear the brunt of the criticism?

Shapen is trying as hard as he can, but it was their call to ultimately ditch Gerry, was it not?

I think you'd have to look at G5s or 6A high schools with high powered offenses. (Yes, Stephenville was 4A). Anyone in the P5 ranks with a great offense will be looking at head coaching jobs.

Silly thread...now if you want to question the QB coach and a lack of player development....

Is the QB coach Bell? He's untouchable as far as criticizing

Stefano DiMera said:

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Silly thread...now if you want to question the QB coach and a lack of player development....

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Na, you brought up player development in that other thread where you sinned and took Gods's name in vain. You didn't make a compelling argument on top of the sinning either.
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/how-we-take-gods-name-in-vain

Yogi said:

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So what guru outside of CAB will be available after December.

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Literally no one decent would work for someone who fired 2 OCs in three seasons with one of those seasons being a conference championship and Sugar Bowl win.

LTBear19 said:

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Well, seeing that the OC AND THE HEAD COACH made the call to start Shapen over a proven winner, Bohanon, shouldn't they BOTH bear the brunt of the criticism?

Shapen is trying as hard as he can, but it was their call to ultimately ditch Gerry, was it not?

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People with no memory…..almost everyone on this board was saying move on from GB, he can't pass downfield, he's one dimensional. After the TCU game, everyone wanted him benched.

Now that he's not here, he was clearly the better QB?

Neither one is exceptional. If we had GB, we'd have about the same record.

IowaBear said:

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Is the QB coach Bell? He's untouchable as far as criticizing

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You mean just among posters here and they think that just because he is a Baylor grad and the results don't matter.

Just seems like there's some unwritten rule on here where you can't criticize certain coaches. Seems like Bell would fall into that category. Bell seems like a great guy and a solid recruiter but QB development leaves a lot to be desired. Just my opinion

Troy - That is not true.

There were quite a few on this board who were not fond of the decision in the Spring.

Especially Bear2Be2, who flat-out said it would potentially bite us in the "you know what."

And sadly, that appears to have been the case.


We can yap about hypotheticals all day, but here is the bottom line:

One QB was 10-2 as a starter.

The other QB is currently 8-5 as starter.

IowaBear said:

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Just seems like there's some unwritten rule on here where you can't criticize certain coaches. Seems like Bell would fall into that category. Bell seems like a great guy and a solid recruiter but QB development leaves a lot to be desired. Just my opinion

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Bell is QB coach & a Baylor legend. Those 2 throws to Ziegler will probably never be forgotten & we are all appropriately very grateful. That does not make him a great coach. I was wondering how good Bell actually is at developing QB's. Shapen clearly still needs work. I'm not sure how much responsibility he had for Bohanon's development since he became QB coach late (this past off season, I think).

I am no saying he is necessarily bad because I honestly don't know. It is a fair question.

Grimes won't be fired. And I doubt anyone will be hiring him away.

historian said:

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IowaBear said:

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Just seems like there's some unwritten rule on here where you can't criticize certain coaches. Seems like Bell would fall into that category. Bell seems like a great guy and a solid recruiter but QB development leaves a lot to be desired. Just my opinion

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Bell is QB coach & a Baylor legend. Those 2 throws to Ziegler will probably never be forgotten & we are all appropriately very grateful. That does not make him a great coach. I was wondering how good Bell actually is at developing QB's. Shapen clearly still needs work. I'm not sure how much responsibility he had for Bohanon's development since he became QB coach late (this past off season, I think).

I am no saying he is necessarily bad because I honestly don't know. It is a fair question.

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Would Bell have gotten hired at Baylor on his own coaching merit if he wasn't an alumni?


he's pretty good in the recruiting game, so that's probably why we keep him on. That, and certain elements of the fan base would cry foul if we fired him. And we could probably kiss Novosad goodbye if we fired him

Yogi said:

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So what guru outside of CAB will be available after December.

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Yogi?

Last two possessions were garbage play calling, almost like he thought he had it won. Grimes will be here next year, but we're just prolonging the inevitable. He's not creative enough for the B12. We won't win the B12 with him going forward unless we have an AMAZING defense that can carry his offense again.

I'm apparently in the minority here but I do not have as much concern with Grimes as I do Shapen. I thought our game plan was awesome and nearly pulled it off. The missed FG really killed us as did the last possession. The last possession was 100% on Grimes. I just hope to never ever again have to watch 3 DL try and sack a quick QB. We need some meat and mussle that can get to the QB. We give them all day to select plays.

Aranda is suppose to be a D ghuru but it wasn't shown this year. That said I'm still ok with both of them. Really really blame today's loss totally on Shapen.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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I'm apparently in the minority here but I do not have as much concern with Grimes as I do Shapen. I thought our game plan was awesome and nearly pulled it off. The missed FG really killed us as did the last possession. The last possession was 100% on Grimes. I just hope to never ever again have to watch 3 DL try and sack a quick QB. We need some meat and mussle that can get to the QB. We give them all day to select plays.

Aranda is suppose to be a D ghuru but it wasn't shown this year. That said I'm still ok with both of them. Really really blame today's loss totally on Sharpen.

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I quite like Grimes ground game. He seems to struggle getting quarterbacks into a rhythm sometimes, but I also don't blame him for the struggles we've seen this year with receivers dropping passes, receivers not getting open (could be a play design issue but I've seen multiple plays this year where every receiver on the field is covered like white on rice), timid quarterback play, locking onto one receiver etc. his offense definitely looked better when we had the speed options and designed runs last year.

Overall, my complaints about Grimes are that his situational playcalling can be poor sometimes, and the horizontal stuff he likes to do doesn't have a good return on investment. It's like he's cool with those reverse plays losing yards on two plays if they gain 10 yards the third time

Yes. And someone needs to teach Shapen to stop throwing to a receiver latterals along the line of scrimmage when the receiver is already covered by two defenders before the pass is thrown.

Just effing relax already.

This league is tough, and we all get about the same quality of players. We aren't going to play for the conf champ EVERY season. We all knew this would be a tough season, and it has turned out that way. If we beat Texas, it will have been an above average season and there is room to improve next year.

Keep the coaches together who won a championship. They earned some grace.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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Yes. And someone needs to teach Shapen to stop throwing to a receiver latterals along the line of scrimmage when the receiver is already covered by two defenders before the pass is thrown.

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Lol I can picture the exact play you're talking about. Grimes clearly gets off to it because we run it all the time. I don't know if he's throwing to a checkdown or if that's a designed pass

Grimes biggest mistake was having delusions of grandeur about Blake and thinking was another Zach Wilson and then pulling the rug out from under the QB who was a major part of a 12 win season and winner of a new years day bowl game.

The talent evaluation was so off its puzzling

We need to evaluate the QB and DB coaching positions and player development at both positions

wongobear said:

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We all knew this would be a tough season.

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I agree with most of what you said, but this sentence isn't actually true. If I still had my premium subscription, I could pull up article after article and post after post showing that the majority opinion (and that from many people that claim to be in the know) was that our floor would be eight wins, and that the CFP was very tangible. further proof would be the fact that no coach cans their starting quarterback that just took them to the Sugar bowl if they don't think the incumbent has the tools to win the next year

I mean in the coach's defense, the exact same complaints I'm seeing about Shapen were said about Bohannon at various points last season, and shapen really did seem to be the better passer in limited snaps. My understanding was that shapen was looking better in practice as well.

Thank you RGIII. How we miss you and the excitement. And Florence and Petty and all the others before they were injured.

The Hound said:

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wongobear said:

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We all knew this would be a tough season.

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I agree with most of what you said, but this sentence isn't actually true. If I still had my premium subscription, I could pull up article after article and post after post showing that the majority opinion (and that from many people that claim to be in the know) was that our floor would be eight wins, and that the CFP was very tangible. further proof would be the fact that no coach cans their starting quarterback that just took them to the Sugar bowl if they don't think the incumbent has the tools to win the next year

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I meant all the comments about "our difficult road schedule."

AND . . . we still do have a chance to win 8 games.

The Hound said:

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I mean in the coach's defense, the exact same complaints I'm seeing about Shapen were said about Bohannon at various points last season, and shapen really did seem to be the better passer in limited snaps. My understanding was that shapen was looking better in practice as well.

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Same QB coach? Sounds like our real problem to me. Only difference? Bohannon had a better skill set. . He could overcome the coach limitations.

Mitch Blood Green said:

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The Hound said:

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I mean in the coach's defense, the exact same complaints I'm seeing about Shapen were said about Bohannon at various points last season, and shapen really did seem to be the better passer in limited snaps. My understanding was that shapen was looking better in practice as well.

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Same QB coach? Sounds like our real problem to me. Only difference? Bihannon had a better skill set. . He could overcome the coach limitations.

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I don't think Bell is going to be in the running for position coach of the year anytime soon, but part of me thinks that he's being tasked with polishing turds. You can only do so much trickery and misdirection stuff with your offense until defenses figure out that your quarterback can't pass. A P5 quarterback should be able to make that pass to Ben Sims

I remember in one of the earlier interviews with Grimes when he first got hired, he basically said that his offense is looking for a game manager that can make plays with his feet. Right now, we have an undersized gunslinger that I would describe as an adequate athlete at best. And I agree with you that Bohannon was not a natural passer, but at least he had some strengths that you could play up

I know it's easy to blame the coaches. This team is good. We are a QB away from being 8-3 or 9-2.