2nd drive
- marching down the field and we then run 2 bizarre unnecessary play counter to what had been working over and over and they hadn't come close to stopping. . One miraculously got positive yards and the other was some flea flicker catastrophe
- shapen misses wide open Baldwin
- FG - did he scuff it or how was it short? Wind? Touchbacks went that direction
- so instead of sticking with what's working we go into the bag of tricks and complicate things with shapen and end up with nothin

Tcu drive
- bailed out by a stunningly horrific PI that gave them 4 points
7-7 instead of like 14-3 or at least 10-3

Next baylor drive
- ran some weird quintuple flea flicker for minus 40 yards. Again, we are getting what we want off the running game and grimes inserts his head in his butt

Last drive of half
- grimes again puts shapen in position to turn the ball over. Instead of getting an almost guaranteed 3 we get nothing and lose momentum

Other drives
- we seek to throw a lot of screens to heavily covered receivers that are tackled by 8 opposing Jessie's 2 stapes after the catch

Last TD
- didn't go for 2. Not a huge issue with this but if our coaches are so analytical and smart, seems an almost obvious thing to do. We allegedly pride ourselves in being gamblers and gunslinging risk takers and we're really just *******

- clock manager apparently gave tcu 40 more seconds. Seriously?!?!? Wonder if this is real

2nd to last drive
- w t f

Last drive
- omg. Not much else can be said. We all knew Grimes'd just burn their timeouts and give them 2 min to go 35 yards for a FG
- so much absolute quit in this drive I don't even have the words
- Ben Sims. He might as well have thrown it out of bounds on 4th down like….

Tcu FG
- I really think if we'd have tackled their qb at the ankles instead of trying to bring a guy you're giving up 30 pounds to at the shoulders, he'd have gone down in bounds and we'd still likely over come gutless grimes but we let him make the sideline

Sure, some of this could have worked out with better execution, but we didn't need to force players incapable largely into having to execute and that's on Grimes

What did I miss?

Probably the 5th of 7 losses the last 2 years that could have easily been Ws if we weren't at times ruhtarded

Bonus plays
- Secondary allowing completed TD passes to players without a baylor defender within 20 yards

Grimes loves that reverse stuff, and it has such a poor ROI. For every play that it gets any positive yardage, I swear it loses yards three other times. But the truth is, the smoke and mirrors are there to disguise the fact that the quarterback is limited and there's no real weapon at receiver

The Hound said:

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Grimes loves that reverse stuff, and it has such a poor ROI. For every play that it gets any positive yardage, I swear it loses yards three other times. But the truth is, the smoke and mirrors are there to disguise the fact that the quarterback is limited and there's no real weapon at receiver

---

That and the speed option. It's worked once maybe twice (sugar bowl and what?)

There were plenty of play calls you can question today, but don't blame Grimes for Shapen's pick before the half. The play had a wide open receiver and Shapen threw a terrible pass. That's on him.

If you can't trust your quarterback to perform a basic functions of his job, he shouldn't be your quarterback.

Fre3dombear said:

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The Hound said:

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Grimes loves that reverse stuff, and it has such a poor ROI. For every play that it gets any positive yardage, I swear it loses yards three other times. But the truth is, the smoke and mirrors are there to disguise the fact that the quarterback is limited and there's no real weapon at receiver

---

That and the speed option. It's worked once maybe twice (sugar bowl and what?)

---

The speed option worked quite a lot last year before the sugar bowl. I actually think it's an element that's missing this year.

bear2be2 said:

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There were plenty of play calls you can question today, but don't blame Grimes for Shapen's pick before the half. The play had a wide open receiver and Shapen threw a terrible pass. That's on him.

If you can't trust your quarterback to perform a basic functions of his job, he shouldn't be your quarterback.

---

At this point given the preponderance of evidence, he should have stuck with the run or a less complicated play. Had to at least get 3 and likely cost us the game yet he let shapen be in a position to turn it over.

I put that more on grimes situational (lack of) ability than shapen. We all knew a TO was more than likey and of course it happened…for the umpteenth time this year. Quit doing the same thing.

The Hound said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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The Hound said:

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Grimes loves that reverse stuff, and it has such a poor ROI. For every play that it gets any positive yardage, I swear it loses yards three other times. But the truth is, the smoke and mirrors are there to disguise the fact that the quarterback is limited and there's no real weapon at receiver

---

That and the speed option. It's worked once maybe twice (sugar bowl and what?)

---

The speed option worked quite a lot last year before the sugar bowl. I actually think it's an element that's missing this year.

---

To my recollection it got +2 to -2 yards with regularity

I think you got em all. I would put most on Shapen since he is most responsible. He probably wouldn't argue with that either.

Fre3dombear said:

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The Hound said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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The Hound said:

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Grimes loves that reverse stuff, and it has such a poor ROI. For every play that it gets any positive yardage, I swear it loses yards three other times. But the truth is, the smoke and mirrors are there to disguise the fact that the quarterback is limited and there's no real weapon at receiver

---

That and the speed option. It's worked once maybe twice (sugar bowl and what?)

---

The speed option worked quite a lot last year before the sugar bowl. I actually think it's an element that's missing this year.

---

To my recollection it got +2 to -2 yards with regularity

---

That describes a lot of plays in Grimes playbook. When the run game can't consistently get 4+ yards a carry, he doesn't have many more tricks up his sleeve to get the offense going

Problem is we we're spoiled with absolute studs for so long. Imagine a Corey coleman level receiver again for baylor.

I don't think you included Baylor corners letting some player that resembles Rudy to go free into the end zone

Jorkel said:

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I don't think you included Baylor corners letting some player that resembles Rudy to go free into the end zone

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Excellent point updated

Fre3dombear said:

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bear2be2 said:

---

There were plenty of play calls you can question today, but don't blame Grimes for Shapen's pick before the half. The play had a wide open receiver and Shapen threw a terrible pass. That's on him.

If you can't trust your quarterback to perform a basic functions of his job, he shouldn't be your quarterback.

---

At this point given the preponderance of evidence, he should have stuck with the run or a less complicated play. Had to at least get 3 and likely cost us the game yet he let shapen be in a position to turn it over.

I put that more on grimes situational (lack of) ability than shapen. We all knew a TO was more than likey and of course it happened…for the umpteenth time this year. Quit doing the same thing.

---

We couldn't run the ball. We were running out of time. And there was nothing complicated about that play. Plant your foot and drive the ball toward the boundary and it's an easy touchdown. Blake just floated it out, allowing it to get undercut by the defender. It was simply a bad throw.

Jorkel said:

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I don't think you included Baylor corners letting some player that resembles Rudy to go free into the end zone

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Yep, there were some bad busted coverages today. I keep hoping it's just youth.

Sorry but defense played well enough to win. Not great but winnable. We sucked at QB. Nothing else needs to said about this loss or our other 5. QB gets too much credit for wins and too much for losses. Ok, but give our QB credit for win. Which one?

Smashmouth said:

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Sorry but defense played well enough to win. Not great but winnable. We sucked at QB. Nothing else needs to said about this loss or our other 5. QB gets too much credit for wins and too much for losses. Ok, but give our QB credit for win. Which one?

---

Offense technically played well enough to win as well

Yes but offense had a chance to put up more points in the first half. It should have been 24-14 or 20-14 at half. Those missed scores were on the QB. He missed a wide open receiver for 6 then threw an unexplained interception that cost 3 right before halftime. Then the offense had a chance to win the game with a first down and the QB decided to run when he had a wide open TE for a first down. The QB takes credit for wins and has to take blame for losses. I'm struggling to find any wins he can take credit for? That's why I have seen enough to know we need a change.

Play calling on the last two possessions cost us the game. Really bad, playing to not win.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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Play calling on the last two possessions cost us the game. Really bad, playing to not win.

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The passing game in this offense reminds me so much of backyard football, it's basically the quarterback running for his life frantically trying to find somebody open. That said, shapen should have been able to hit Ben Sims. Any P5 quarterback should be able to make that throw. And what's sad is that he has made that throw in the past. He's just not improving, plain and simple

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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Play calling on the last two possessions cost us the game. Really bad, playing to not win.

---

It's hard to "play to win" with a quarterback who's afraid to throw the ball.

Not piling on him or don't want to but realize I am. Other than first half of Big 12 championship, what have we seen that has shown improvement? It's the same thing since BYU opener. Crap. No improvement and it seems like you could pull any 6A QB in the state and put him in there and he could do the same thing or maybe better. He just doesn't give us a chance to win and I've seen enough. Crap is crap and that's all I've seen.

Yeah..go back and rewatch that throw..he had a weird throwing motion and follow through that.. almost like he was flicking it up there..not completing the throw..this is getting weirdly reminiscent of the regression/lack of development with Zack Smith..

Grimes is at about 75% at fault here. His play calling and not being able to recognize that Shapen is not able to get the job done.

Shapen is not (at this point in his career) a P5 qb. He may eventually become great but to me he looks like a better shortstop than qb.

Finally, with the exception of the Briles era, when has Baylor football ever had a killer instinct?

Fre3dombear said:

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2nd drive
- marching down the field and we then run 2 bizarre unnecessary play counter to what had been working over and over and they hadn't come close to stopping. . One miraculously got positive yards and the other was some flea flicker catastrophe
- shapen misses wide open Baldwin
- FG - did he scuff it or how was it short? Wind? Touchbacks went that direction
- so instead of sticking with what's working we go into the bag of tricks and complicate things with shapen and end up with nothin

Tcu drive
- bailed out by a stunningly horrific PI that gave them 4 points
7-7 instead of like 14-3 or at least 10-3

Next baylor drive
- ran some weird quintuple flea flicker for minus 40 yards. Again, we are getting what we want off the running game and grimes inserts his head in his butt

Last drive of half
- grimes again puts shapen in position to turn the ball over. Instead of getting an almost guaranteed 3 we get nothing and lose momentum

Other drives
- we seek to throw a lot of screens to heavily covered receivers that are tackled by 8 opposing Jessie's 2 stapes after the catch

Last TD
- didn't go for 2. Not a huge issue with this but if our coaches are so analytical and smart, seems an almost obvious thing to do. We allegedly pride ourselves in being gamblers and gunslinging risk takers and we're really just *******

- clock manager apparently gave tcu 40 more seconds. Seriously?!?!? Wonder if this is real

2nd to last drive
- w t f

Last drive
- omg. Not much else can be said. We all knew Grimes'd just burn their timeouts and give them 2 min to go 35 yards for a FG
- so much absolute quit in this drive I don't even have the words
- Ben Sims. He might as well have thrown it out of bounds on 4th down like….

Tcu FG
- I really think if we'd have tackled their qb at the ankles instead of trying to bring a guy you're giving up 30 pounds to at the shoulders, he'd have gone down in bounds and we'd still likely over come gutless grimes but we let him make the sideline

Sure, some of this could have worked out with better execution, but we didn't need to force players incapable largely into having to execute and that's on Grimes

What did I miss?

Probably the 5th of 7 losses the last 2 years that could have easily been Ws if we weren't at times ruhtarded

Bonus plays
- Secondary allowing completed TD passes to players without a baylor defender within 20 yards

---

on our last drive of the half we had 11 seconds left and two timeouts. We had the entire playbook available to us including run plays.

Quote:

---

Last TD

- didn't go for 2. Not a huge issue with this but if our coaches are so analytical and smart, seems an almost obvious thing to do. We allegedly pride ourselves in being gamblers and gunslinging risk takers and we're really just *******

---

I would disagree with this. Don't think you will find many coaches that would have gone for 2. If you miss it, you let the other team off the hook for their missed extra point which TCU was chasing the rest of the game. You saw what happened on their 2 attempt. Taking an almost sure point forcing the other team to make 2 to tie is not a mistake.

I guess based on your last statement above, we should have gone for it on 4th and 2 inside our 30 to ice the game. Either win it or lose it right there. That would be the gunslinging risk taker. I'm sure if we had and were successful people here would talk about how gutsy a play it was, and likely very few would be posting the Shapen and Grimes comments now. If we had failed the board would be ballistic. Unfortunately you don't know how things will play out when you have to decide what to do. But kicking the point was the right thing to do.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Fre3dombear said:

---

2nd drive
- marching down the field and we then run 2 bizarre unnecessary play counter to what had been working over and over and they hadn't come close to stopping. . One miraculously got positive yards and the other was some flea flicker catastrophe
- shapen misses wide open Baldwin
- FG - did he scuff it or how was it short? Wind? Touchbacks went that direction
- so instead of sticking with what's working we go into the bag of tricks and complicate things with shapen and end up with nothin

Tcu drive
- bailed out by a stunningly horrific PI that gave them 4 points
7-7 instead of like 14-3 or at least 10-3

Next baylor drive
- ran some weird quintuple flea flicker for minus 40 yards. Again, we are getting what we want off the running game and grimes inserts his head in his butt

Last drive of half
- grimes again puts shapen in position to turn the ball over. Instead of getting an almost guaranteed 3 we get nothing and lose momentum

Other drives
- we seek to throw a lot of screens to heavily covered receivers that are tackled by 8 opposing Jessie's 2 stapes after the catch

Last TD
- didn't go for 2. Not a huge issue with this but if our coaches are so analytical and smart, seems an almost obvious thing to do. We allegedly pride ourselves in being gamblers and gunslinging risk takers and we're really just *******

- clock manager apparently gave tcu 40 more seconds. Seriously?!?!? Wonder if this is real

2nd to last drive
- w t f

Last drive
- omg. Not much else can be said. We all knew Grimes'd just burn their timeouts and give them 2 min to go 35 yards for a FG
- so much absolute quit in this drive I don't even have the words
- Ben Sims. He might as well have thrown it out of bounds on 4th down like….

Tcu FG
- I really think if we'd have tackled their qb at the ankles instead of trying to bring a guy you're giving up 30 pounds to at the shoulders, he'd have gone down in bounds and we'd still likely over come gutless grimes but we let him make the sideline

Sure, some of this could have worked out with better execution, but we didn't need to force players incapable largely into having to execute and that's on Grimes

What did I miss?

Probably the 5th of 7 losses the last 2 years that could have easily been Ws if we weren't at times ruhtarded

Bonus plays
- Secondary allowing completed TD passes to players without a baylor defender within 20 yards

---

on our last drive of the half we had 11 seconds left and two timeouts. We had the entire playbook available to us including run plays.

---

Yep. And given what shapen has done at end of prior halves, I chance I put him in a position like that. Quick slant, sure. Run then quick slant then FG if we don't score? Sure.

40 yard throw to corner pylon? Not. A. Chance.

blackie said:

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Quote:

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Last TD

- didn't go for 2. Not a huge issue with this but if our coaches are so analytical and smart, seems an almost obvious thing to do. We allegedly pride ourselves in being gamblers and gunslinging risk takers and we're really just *******

---

I would disagree with this. Don't think you will find many coaches that would have gone for 2. If you miss it, you let the other team off the hook for their missed extra point which TCU was chasing the rest of the game. You saw what happened on their 2 attempt. Taking an almost sure point forcing the other team to make 2 to tie is not a mistake.

I guess based on your last statement above, we should have gone for it on 4th and 2 inside our 30 to ice the game. Either win it or lose it right there. That would be the gunslinging risk taker. I'm sure if we had and were successful people here would talk about how gutsy a play it was, and likely very few would be posting the Shapen and Grimes comments now. If we had failed the board would be ballistic. Unfortunately you don't know how things will play out when you have to decide what to do. But kicking the point was the right thing to do.

---

Yeah I'm not a strong lean towards going for 2 there but knowing it's unlikely we get a stop, I'd have considered it. Definitely not a definite no.

Given we gave the best offense in the conference 120 seconds (thanks I guess to our clock operator and OC) and only 40 yards to kick a FG, I'm kinda surprised we didn't go for it on 4th and 2 given all the games we've thrown away by doing that.