This was found on worthpoint/ebay and shows the cubs with a football helmet and a football sitting on a mowed area with a bit of litter in the background.

Pretty sure that's Abner and Daisy Mae, cubs that were named after President Abner McCall.

The pic in question was taken in the 40's or most likely the 50's. The helmet on the ground was not 70's or 80's style.

Abner & Daisy Mae hit campus until 1978.

You're probably right.

There have only been a handful of duo cubs used as mascots.

Per: https://www.baylor.edu/alumni/magazine/1203/news.php?action=story&story=142733

"More than 50 bears have served as Baylor mascots, and the names chosen for them have ranged from informal to dignified. Many mascots have been twins or part of a pair, with corresponding names tied to catchphrases or popular characters. These duos have included Topsy and Turvy, Ruff and Tuff, Rip and Tear, Nip and Tuck, Rusty and Dusty, Barney and Bailey, Countess and Duchess, Samson and Delilah, Abner and Daisy Mae and Linus and Lucy."

And each time they were on a game field, they made a d I c k l e s s crowd of PETA lite sychophants toss fits until the sissies got their way.

Can't we all just get along? **** you PETA.

I do not think the blame falls on PETA. The blame falls on the snowflake administration that caved in to them. That was the start of the spineless Baylor we have today.

lockednloaded said:

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I do not think the blame falls on PETA. The blame falls on the snowflake administration that caved in to them. That was the start of the spineless Baylor we have today.

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Yep - the same Baylor that immediately caved to the media and needlessly nuked a Top 10 football program 7 years ago, and more recently has caved to the wokies with what has needlessly happened with statues and name changes to parts of the campus. Truly gutless.

What happened to statues & what name changes? I don't recall seeing any news about that.

They recently unveiled statues of the 1st African American male & female graduates. And a few years back changed the name of Burleson Quadrangle to just 'the Quadrangle' and the Rufus statue was taken down.

MrGolfguy said:

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They recently unveiled statues of the 1st African American male & female graduates. And a few years back changed the name of Burleson Quadrangle to just 'the Quadrangle' and the Rufus statue was taken down.

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I'm fine with erecting statues of notable alumni (whatever their race is). Violating tradition with needlessly moving Burleson's statue and needlessly re-naming Burleson Quadrangle in an uncalled for attempt to bow a knee to the wokies of academia was pathetic and spineless - as is the virtue signaling narrative that BU was founded on the backs of slaves.

Somebody asked a question and I answered, that's it.

MrGolfguy said:

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They recently unveiled statues of the 1st African American male & female graduates. And a few years back changed the name of Burleson Quadrangle to just 'the Quadrangle' and the Rufus statue was taken down.

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I should have known about Burleson and I'm disappointed. It must be because he owned slaves, fought for the Confederacy, or some such lame reason.

I hate the historical revisionism! If every historical figure must be perfect to have a statue or have something named for them then all statues will be of Jesus Christ. Ditto for buildings, bridges, highways, etc.

Administrators with a BU background would be encouraging. Hiring outside the circle has led to our culture and heritage being expendable because the people making the decisions have no depth perception in such matters.

If I thought that removing a statue and renaming a quadrangle would actually benefit someone, I would give pause and reflect.....but that's not the way the world works. The only ones with a sense of 'accomplishment' are the ones given license to destroy something that belongs to someone else.

Our heritage and our culture are not playthings for outsiders and anyone or any group who believes they are can go work/study elsewhere.

A lot of *****ing on this thread that has nothing to do with the photos. Problem with the statues of the 1st 2 Black AMERICANS on campus but then in the same breath cry about protecting your history. Newsflash those black AMERICANS are Baylor history.

ImwithBU said:

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A lot of *****ing on this thread that has nothing to do with the photos. Problem with the statues of the 1st 2 Black AMERICANS on campus but then in the same breath cry about protecting your history. Newsflash those black AMERICANS are Baylor history.

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Nobody said they weren't. The problem is revisionist history and needless virtue signaling related to prominent historical figures in the birth and development of BU that Newsflash weren't perfect people - as is also the case with any other person that's ever lived not named Jesus Christ.

My concern is with the erasure of Burleson. He's part of Baylor history & deserves to be honored as such. Renaming the quadrangle & removing the statue serve no real purpose. I have no problem with statues honoring our first black students, especially if they were remarkable individuals meriting special attention. If their only distinction was the color of their skin then I might take issue. Any form of racial preference or exclusion is still racism.

ImwithBU said:

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A lot of *****ing on this thread that has nothing to do with the photos. Problem with the statues of the 1st 2 Black AMERICANS on campus but then in the same breath cry about protecting your history. Newsflash those black AMERICANS are Baylor history.

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NEWSFLASH: This is the first thread in the history of threads to have the conversation drift away from the OP. Rack it for the archives so that future generations may perform a forensic study on *** went wrong.

Johnny Bear said:

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MrGolfguy said:

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They recently unveiled statues of the 1st African American male & female graduates. And a few years back changed the name of Burleson Quadrangle to just 'the Quadrangle' and the Rufus statue was taken down.

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I'm fine with erecting statues of notable alumni (whatever their race is). Violating tradition with needlessly moving Burleson's statue and needlessly re-naming Burleson Quadrangle in an uncalled for attempt to bow a knee to the wokies of academia was pathetic and spineless - as is the virtue signaling narrative that BU was founded on the backs of slaves.

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How do "wokies"define themselves?

Quite possibly each one has a different definition

historian said:

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My concern is with the erasure of Burleson. He's part of Baylor history & deserves to be honored as such. Renaming the quadrangle & removing the statue serve no real purpose. I have no problem with statues honoring our first black students, especially if they were remarkable individuals meriting special attention. If their only distinction was the color of their skin then I might take issue. Any form of racial preference or exclusion is still racism.

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I don't usually comment on this stuff but I have to weigh in here - at that time and given the high weeds they had to walk, the color of their skin was a distinction.

I'm not saying we as a culture haven't gone overboard in some respects (although why anyone spends this much emotional capital hemming and hawing over what statues are up and what aren't is beyond me), but I recognize what that means. My dad was a Baylor junior when the first black students enrolled in 1964, and some of the observational stories he has from that time are unimaginable, and anyone who navigated that to be a "first" in the name of educating themselves is perfectly deserving of public commemoration in my eyes.

Lot of misinformation in this thread. Administration did not cow tow to PETA regarding the university mascot program.

Beginning in the 90's, US dept of Agriculture regulates school live mascots and Baylor is subject to such regulations. As such, if the mascot is naturally a wild animal vs. a domesticated animal, the school is not permitted to bring the animal into large group settings.

A year or so ago, Dr. Livingstone and I spoke and she expressed that PETA was pressuring the university to do away with the bear program after Joy and Lady passed. Thankfully the administration and the board has no plans to do that. There are already plans to get two new cubs in the next year or so, after Lady passes.

historian said:

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Quite possibly each one has a different definition

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b#tch, moan & groan. until they get their way.

Googled Mr. Burleson
* 2nd president of Baylor
* Baptized Sam Houston, yep that Sam Houston
* Help establish Bishop College in Marshall, a historically black college

The list goes on and on. Seems like he was a very honorable man.

Why and who pushed to rename Burleson Quad?

Who picks fights with someone who died back in 1901? A coward.


If you had to describe Baylor in one word, among the top ones would be tradition.

Obviously, Mr. Burleson was a big part of that. I don't get why we can't honor him now.

Chamberman said:

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As such, if the mascot is naturally a wild animal vs. a domesticated animal, the school is not permitted to bring the animal into large group settings.

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Is Ralphie the Colorado buffalo still allowed at games? Bevo is, albeit in a highly tranquilized state (or appears to be). Peruna the Mustang still runs the field at SMU, although that might be a bit different.

parch said:

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historian said:

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My concern is with the erasure of Burleson. He's part of Baylor history & deserves to be honored as such. Renaming the quadrangle & removing the statue serve no real purpose. I have no problem with statues honoring our first black students, especially if they were remarkable individuals meriting special attention. If their only distinction was the color of their skin then I might take issue. Any form of racial preference or exclusion is still racism.

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I don't usually comment on this stuff but I have to weigh in here - at that time and given the high weeds they had to walk, the color of their skin was a distinction.

I'm not saying we as a culture haven't gone overboard in some respects (although why anyone spends this much emotional capital hemming and hawing over what statues are up and what aren't is beyond me), but I recognize what that means. My dad was a Baylor junior when the first black students enrolled in 1964, and some of the observational stories he has from that time are unimaginable, and anyone who navigated that to be a "first" in the name of educating themselves is perfectly deserving of public commemoration in my eyes.

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Yes, their ethnicity was important. I did use the words "only" and "might". You have an excellent point about the fact that they were the first to accomplish something big. In a way, it can be compared to Jesse Owens, Jackie Robinson & others, although on a much smaller scale. Context means a lot.

That's a good one. It accurately describes what they often do, when they are not engaging in violence or threatening it.

241Bear said:

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Chamberman said:

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As such, if the mascot is naturally a wild animal vs. a domesticated animal, the school is not permitted to bring the animal into large group settings.

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Is Ralphie the Colorado buffalo still allowed at games? Bevo is, albeit in a highly tranquilized state (or appears to be). Peruna the Mustang still runs the field at SMU, although that might be a bit different.

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The argument as made, presumably, that each of those is a domesticated animal, even the buffalo. It's a stretch to say that about bears. However, even if bears ard generally not domesticated, if they are in a zoo then they clearly are. Baylor's Bear Habitat is officially registered as a zoo.

historian said:

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That's a good one. It accurately describes what they often do, when they are not engaging in violence or threatening it.

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Any proof?

I just catch the news & see examples of it daily. As for the violence there was Nashville, Stanford, what happened to Riley Gaines, all of 2020, BLM, antifa, and on and on and on. The fascists are going all out with their childish tantrums blaming everybody else for all the messes they created.

historian said:

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I just catch the news & see examples of it daily. As for the violence there was Nashville, Stanford, what happened to Riley Gaines, all of 2020, BLM, antifa, and on and on and on. The fascists are going all out with their childish tantrums blaming everybody else for all the messes they created.

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That ain't woke it is stupidity.
Woke is to see and understand the one is culturally marginal nalized. It is to have empathy for other human beings

Waco1947 said:

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historian said:

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I just catch the news & see examples of it daily. As for the violence there was Nashville, Stanford, what happened to Riley Gaines, all of 2020, BLM, antifa, and on and on and on. The fascists are going all out with their childish tantrums blaming everybody else for all the messes they created.

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That ain't woke it is stupidity.
Woke is to see and understand the one is culturally marginal nalized. It is to have empathy for other human beings

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What I described is woke because it's political, selective, one-sided & usually about extremes outside the norms (i.e. the trans crazies, pedophiles, groomers, etc).

What you describe is Christianity, although Christian's themselves don't always follow a Christ's commands to love our neighbor as ourselves.

historian said:

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241Bear said:

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Chamberman said:

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As such, if the mascot is naturally a wild animal vs. a domesticated animal, the school is not permitted to bring the animal into large group settings.

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Is Ralphie the Colorado buffalo still allowed at games? Bevo is, albeit in a highly tranquilized state (or appears to be). Peruna the Mustang still runs the field at SMU, although that might be a bit different.

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The argument as made, presumably, that each of those is a domesticated animal, even the buffalo. It's a stretch to say that about bears. However, even if bears ard generally not domesticated, if they are in a zoo then they clearly are. Baylor's Bear Habitat is officially registered as a zoo.

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Identifying a wild animal as domesticated - because it is in a zoo - is a mistake, with potentially dangerous outcomes. I don't think zoos operate with this theory in mind.

historian said:

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That's a good one. It accurately describes what they often do, when they are not engaging in violence or threatening it.

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I'll go one further. This description accurately describes extremist movements on both ends of the political spectrum.

An additional layer of concern is the fast-growing popularity of these extremist organizations.

True. But some people think of it that way.