We beat the breaks off of everyone we played… you play who's in front of you, name 1 team in 2015 who goes into Stillwater and handles a top 10 OSU team with a 3rd stringer. Tech and WV were both bowl teams and we absolutely annihilated both. It's "silly fan board talk" in your view which isn't real shocking considering nothing appeases you. That team was on a very very short list of title contenders and only a moron would say otherwise
Art Briles at TCU today
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Last: 11 mo ago by Thee University
There's a wide gulf between saying that team was a contender and declaring it by far the best team in the country that year. One is reasonable. The other is silly fan board talk.IowaBear said:
We beat the breaks off of everyone we played… you play who's in front of you, name 1 team in 2015 who goes into Stillwater and handles a top 10 OSU team with a 3rd stringer. Tech and WV were both bowl teams and we absolutely annihilated both. It's "silly fan board talk" in your view which isn't real shocking considering nothing appeases you. That team was on a very very short list of title contenders and only a moron would say otherwise
Don't forget softball and acrobatics and tumbling.Aliceinbubbleland said:
I think I read this is their sixth appearance in the CWS. We have seriously fallen behind TCU in everything except possibly basketball.
IowaBear said:
We beat the breaks off of everyone we played… you play who's in front of you, name 1 team in 2015 who goes into Stillwater and handles a top 10 OSU team with a 3rd stringer. Tech and WV were both bowl teams and we absolutely annihilated both. It's "silly fan board talk" in your view which isn't real shocking considering nothing appeases you. That team was on a very very short list of title contenders and only a moron would say otherwise
OU probably could've in 2015. They made Stidham look average in our house, were part of the the reason we had to put QB #3 the next game (Stidham got rocked vs. OU a few times), and then completely dismantled OSU in their place more-so than we did.
2015 BU probably would've been a contender with Russell, but OU showed there were holes.
OU got to play against a true freshman QB making only his second start. Not the QB on his way to shattering ncaa records and bringing another Heisman trophy to Waco. Baylor walks all over OU if Russell is the starter that game. Defense had holes for sure. Offense with Russell was going to be one of the best offenses ever. We could beat teams in so many ways there was no right way to defend us that season.
Can we all agree that there is a monumental difference between being a conference title contender and having a realistic chance at being able to win a national title? In regard to the latter, a program making the CFP does not mean that that program has a realistic chance of winning a national title - it just means that that program only lost 1 game at most in the regular season plus its conference title game. Further, and more direct to Baylor's specific situation, programs cannot overpower their way to a national title through offense, and that's been clear as day for the last 10+ years - essentially, if a program isn't running a great defense, it doesn't have a prayer at national title regardless as to how good its offense is.
Ask Lincoln Riley
Ask Kliff Kingsbury
Ask Josh Heupel
Ask Art Briles
Ask Ryan Day
the list goes on and on....
Ask Lincoln Riley
Ask Kliff Kingsbury
Ask Josh Heupel
Ask Art Briles
Ask Ryan Day
the list goes on and on....
Last 10 champs have also had damm good offenses. Go look if you don't believe me. Also I'd go back and watch the 15 playoffs if I were you. Baylor absolutely could have beaten any of those 4 with a healthy Russell and probably would have. Sone of you either don't watch much football or just straight up refuse to believe Briles had that train rolling towards a Natty
This completely ignores my point. No one said a good offense wasn't necessary - what was said was, if a program doesn't have a great defense, it doesn't have a prayer. Did 2015 Baylor have a great defense?IowaBear said:
Last 10 champs have also had damm good offenses. Go look if you don't believe me. Also I'd go back and watch the 15 playoffs if I were you. Baylor absolutely could have beaten any of those 4 with a healthy Russell and probably would have. Sone of you either don't watch much football or just straight up refuse to believe Briles had that train rolling towards a Natty
Didn't need to, we were averaging like 65 a game. Would that have dropped over the season? Yes of course. you're also completely ignoring the fact our defense was on the field 40 plus minutes a game because our O scored at will. No one's going to have an elite D being on the field that much. I don't disagree with your logic. But your logic completely ignores that the 15 Bu team had one of if not the best college offense ever assembled. Easily the best I've seen in my lifetime granted I'm only 30
To be clear, are you saying that a program can win a national title without a great defense, and, if so, what team has done that over the last decade?IowaBear said:
Didn't need to, we were averaging like 65 a game. Would that have dropped over the season? Yes of course. you're also completely ignoring the fact our defense was on the field 40 plus minutes a game because our O scored at will. No one's going to have an elite D being on the field that much. I don't disagree with your logic. But your logic completely ignores that the 15 Bu team had one of if not the best college offense ever assembled. Easily the best I've seen in my lifetime granted I'm only 30
Define "great defense" please list the end of season defensive rankings of the last 10 champs. If they're not inside the top 5 nationally they aren't "great defenses". Most probably are inside the top 5 I truly have no idea but to say that squad had zero shot at winning it all is naive to say the least. If elite defenses were all you needed Iowa would win titles almost yearly.
Again, no one said it's "all you need(ed)". There really isn't a need to argue against arguments that aren't being made.IowaBear said:
Define "great defense" please list the end of season defensive rankings of the last 10 champs. If they're not inside the top 5 nationally they aren't "great defenses". Most probably are inside the top 5 I truly have no idea but to say that squad had zero shot at winning it all is naive to say the least. If elite defenses were all you needed Iowa would win titles almost yearly.
I've always laughed at the "our offense scored too fast" arguments.
If you can't watch the team and understand how they were different from the other teams we had, then I can't help you. WVU defense figured out how to stop Baylor in 2014. They did the same playbook in 2015 and we destroyed them. Why? Seth Russell. Watch the game again and see where we would have been stopped the prior years. Russell runs right by the defender on 3rd down for 20 yards for a 1st down, every time. His legs were the difference. When it's 3rd and long and all WR's are covered up, a scrambling QB makes an offense unstoppable. Russell was the most athletic QB we've had, possibly ever.bear2be2 said:The best team we beat before his injury was who? West Virginia? That team was good. But there is no way we can say with any sort of confidence that it was the best in the country. That's silly fan board talk. We hadn't played any of the good Big 12 teams yet, and Lord knows we didn't face anyone out of conference with a pulse.IowaBear said:
That 2015 team wins a Natty if Russell doesn't get hurt. No team was slowing them down. Head and shoulders the best team in the land prior to injury.
QB's legs made the difference for Florida with Tebow, as well as Auburn with Newton. They won natty's because of those QBs last time I checked. What did those teams do without those QB's? Nothing.
This guy gets it! That squad had sooooo many ways to burn you offensively it was insane! And if by some miracle you managed to cover our wideouts Russell would take off. And the dude was a burner. He had some long long runs
IowaBear said:
Our defense struggled because they were on the field 40 plus minutes a game due to us scoring at will. It's not speculation that the 15 team was the best team in the land prior to his injury. The dude had 35 TDs through 6 games… really through like 3 since he didn't play most 2nd halves. That team beat a top 10 OSU on the road with their 3rd string QB starting.
No question they were good. But you cannot compare scoring like that against Rice & NW State to scoring against Alabama & Ohio State. They had the potential to beat them but we have no way of knowing if they actually would have.
The FL St coach was already on razor thin ice. To deny that Kendal has had tremendous success as an OC is Briles derangement syndrome.bear2be2 said:Not counting his dad, two of the four head coaches Kendal has worked for to date got their asses fired the year they hired him.Golden Helmet said:
LOL
yet somehow he manages to remain employed
The experts must all be wrong
Perhaps they're not the experts you claim.
IowaBear said:
We beat the breaks off of everyone we played… you play who's in front of you, name 1 team in 2015 who goes into Stillwater and handles a top 10 OSU team with a 3rd stringer. Tech and WV were both bowl teams and we absolutely annihilated both. It's "silly fan board talk" in your view which isn't real shocking considering nothing appeases you. That team was on a very very short list of title contenders and only a moron would say otherwise
I will agree with that totally: a short list of contenders. My only point is that nothing is certain.
However, funny that we mentioned winning with a 3rd stringer QB: OSU won a natty that way in 2014. Stidham was very good but couldn't get past OU & Johnson was great in Stillwater but couldn't overcome terrible weather in Ft Worth. I wonder what he might have done had he remained healthy. At Auburn a couple years later, he led them to wins over #1 Bama & #1 Georgia. That was impressive.
Last ten champs also had very good defenses. It takes both.
Whether the 2015 team wins a title or not, we were in the conversation no doubt. What really hurts is that our program was on such an upward trajectory seeing improvement on the field and in recruiting every year. As you said, the train was rolling.IowaBear said:
Last 10 champs have also had damm good offenses. Go look if you don't believe me. Also I'd go back and watch the 15 playoffs if I were you. Baylor absolutely could have beaten any of those 4 with a healthy Russell and probably would have. Sone of you either don't watch much football or just straight up refuse to believe Briles had that train rolling towards a Natty
While we had a flash in the pan year under Rhule that one season, I never got the sense that we were on any type of meaningful trajectory as the following year proved. We were eking out victories in a middling Big 12 that year and got curb-stomped by Georgia's 2nd string in the sugar bowl. We could easily have lost several games that we won. Under Briles, we were playing dominating football.
I like Aranda and hope he can get us back to a consistently great program. We definitely had some swagger just 2 seasons ago.
There is no need because anyone who would dare (erroneously) assert that mediocre defenses have won the national title over the last 10 years is obviously free to look it up themselves so that they can bask in their wrongness alone.IowaBear said:
Define "great defense" please list the end of season defensive rankings of the last 10 champs. If they're not inside the top 5 nationally they aren't "great defenses". Most probably are inside the top 5 I truly have no idea but to say that squad had zero shot at winning it all is naive to say the least. If elite defenses were all you needed Iowa would win titles almost yearly.
Separately, top 20 defenses are pretty great - top 5 defense isn't needed for a national title (depending on offense), but a #35 defense has no shot.
To assert this statement with such confidence is absurd.
While we'll never know, thanks baylor regents and art, we do know it was the greatest offense of all time.
How good the defense would need to be given that is unclear
And of course, Baylor's dominance of college football for several years led directly to art Briles demise
Since the thread is about tcu one could make the case that Gary patterson could have easily been fired for all his scandals but he actually fired himself for basically sucking for 80% of his tenure in big boy football
While we'll never know, thanks baylor regents and art, we do know it was the greatest offense of all time.
How good the defense would need to be given that is unclear
And of course, Baylor's dominance of college football for several years led directly to art Briles demise
Since the thread is about tcu one could make the case that Gary patterson could have easily been fired for all his scandals but he actually fired himself for basically sucking for 80% of his tenure in big boy football
What's even crazier about 2015 was they could've had Robbie Rhodes and Javonte Magee on that team. I know Rhodes had a really good spring going into 2014 and Briles felt he was going to be a stud. That offense, especially in the passing game would've been almost unstoppable had Rhodes reached his potential.
Seth Russell will never get the credit he deserves. His running ability is what gave that offense an extra edge that was so stressful on defenses. He was probably going to win the Heisman too.
Seth Russell will never get the credit he deserves. His running ability is what gave that offense an extra edge that was so stressful on defenses. He was probably going to win the Heisman too.
Had he not gotten hurt he was going to win the heisman . That I'm positive of. Dude had 29 passing TDs and 6 Rushing when he got hurt. Like I stated earlier he was on his way to shattering several ncaa records. He's criminally underrated by this board. That team in general is criminally underrated by this board. Rhodes would have been special If he had kept his act together
No question that Seth Russell was one of the greats. It was a real shame that he was hurt at his peak & that he retired from football so young.
Seth Russell was a great athlete and a really efficient quarterback, but he wasn't a tremendously accurate passer. That would have likely caught up with him and us at some point that season -- particularly in a playoff scenario against a team with NFL talent up and down its defensive two-deep.hodedofome said:If you can't watch the team and understand how they were different from the other teams we had, then I can't help you. WVU defense figured out how to stop Baylor in 2014. They did the same playbook in 2015 and we destroyed them. Why? Seth Russell. Watch the game again and see where we would have been stopped the prior years. Russell runs right by the defender on 3rd down for 20 yards for a 1st down, every time. His legs were the difference. When it's 3rd and long and all WR's are covered up, a scrambling QB makes an offense unstoppable. Russell was the most athletic QB we've had, possibly ever.bear2be2 said:The best team we beat before his injury was who? West Virginia? That team was good. But there is no way we can say with any sort of confidence that it was the best in the country. That's silly fan board talk. We hadn't played any of the good Big 12 teams yet, and Lord knows we didn't face anyone out of conference with a pulse.IowaBear said:
That 2015 team wins a Natty if Russell doesn't get hurt. No team was slowing them down. Head and shoulders the best team in the land prior to injury.
QB's legs made the difference for Florida with Tebow, as well as Auburn with Newton. They won natty's because of those QBs last time I checked. What did those teams do without those QB's? Nothing.
It should also be noted that Russell never finished a season healthy, so imagining this alternative timeline where he started every game and led us to a title is kind of a silly exercise.
Everything that you disagree with is silly in your eyes, that's always been the case with you.
Some valid points. As much as I loved Russell, he did throw quite a few INT's. As I recall, he threw three picks vs Lamar. I cannot imagine how many it might have been against a really stout defense, something he did not face very much.
The picks vs Lamar were his freshman season….
I'm talking about 2015. Russell played in 2013 & 2014. He was not a freshman in 2015.
I was there & I've watched the game on TV a couple times since (although it has been awhile). I double checked because I remember we had some first quarter struggles in both offense & defense. Granted, it was early in the season. Still, it was somewhat unsettling & belies the notion that a natty was in the bag.
I was there & I've watched the game on TV a couple times since (although it has been awhile). I double checked because I remember we had some first quarter struggles in both offense & defense. Granted, it was early in the season. Still, it was somewhat unsettling & belies the notion that a natty was in the bag.
Fre3dombear said:
To assert this statement with such confidence is absurd.
While we'll never know, thanks baylor regents and art, we do know it was the greatest offense of all time.
How good the defense would need to be given that is unclear
And of course, Baylor's dominance of college football for several years led directly to art Briles demise
Since the thread is about tcu one could make the case that Gary patterson could have easily been fired for all his scandals but he actually fired himself for basically sucking for 80% of his tenure in big boy football
Not to pick on anyone directly, but what college football team with a non-great defense has won a title in the last 10 years? If the answer is none despite the best efforts of Briles, Riley (w/3 different heismans and 1 runner up), Day, Heupel, Kingsbury, etc., then what's the basis of believing that it's even possible?
I think it's fair to say that there were times under Briles in which our defense was great, namely 2013-2015. However, it was t always consistent & even in those years they made costly mistakes. And I don't think they ever reached the elite level that might have led to a victory over Bama, Georgia, Clemson or Ohio State.
We seemed to be on that trajectory when the Austin media created a fake scandal with plenty of help from our BoR.
We seemed to be on that trajectory when the Austin media created a fake scandal with plenty of help from our BoR.
Weren't Art and Dykes both on Texas Tech staff at the same time?
GoldenBear007 said:
Weren't Art and Dykes both on Texas Tech staff at the same time?
Yes, they were there with a GA named Dave Aranda too.
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